Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2011 September 5

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September 5

ten year budget 2001 thru 2011 jennings county, in.

I am looking for the ten yr. budget from 2001 thru 2011 for jennings county, in.(each year).— Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.212.53.57 (talk • contribs)

The county's website is located at http://www.jenningscounty-in.gov/index.php . There is a "contact us" link; someone there would likely be able to help you. --Jayron32 03:10, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Clarence Earl Gideon

is it possible to add CLARENCE EARL GIDEON to the list of Hannibal, Mo residents? He was the subject of the landmark Supreme court case, Gideon vs Wainright, allowing the indigent legal representation in court cases subjecting the defendant to probability of prison; the film, "Gideon's starring Henry Fonda used this court case as the subject — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.119.153.149 (talk) 03:24, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I guess you are referring to Hannibal, Missouri#Hannibal residents. We have an article about Clarence Earl Gideon but it appears he left the city early and fails point 3 at Wikipedia:Famous Residents: Significance to the location. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:30, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Compare diffs from two different articles?

Can I compare diffs from two different articles? For example, I would like to compare the old article version content in User:Viriditas/Four Seasons Resort Hualalai with the current article on the Four Seasons Resort Hualalai. I seem to recall reading somewhere that this was possible, probably with the use of an external website/tool. Any ideas? Obviously, I can just update the old version and compare them, and that would solve the problem, but I'm curious about whether this can even be done. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 03:32, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, this is possible. Call the articles A and B. First use the page history of article A to display the old article revision; in the browser address bar you will see a URL ending in "oldid=<some big number>". Remember that number. Then go to the page history for article B and display the diff between the current version and the previous version. In your browser address bar you will see another URL ending in "oldid=<some other number>". Copy in the remembered number and redisplay.

But this won't work for User:Viriditas/Four Seasons Resort Hualalai because you asked for that page to be deleted. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:33, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Right, thanks. It inserts a comma separating the two articles A, B. In this example, I used two articles, Mun Charn Wong and User:Viriditas/Mun Charn Wong.[1] Can you do more than two? Viriditas (talk) 10:44, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

MediaWiki only compares two revisions. I don't know whether any tools can do more. See also Wikipedia:Complete diff and link guide. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:35, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Deleting from Wapedia an article that has been removed from Wikipedia

An article was created about me by someone else and quite rightly deleted by Wikipedia as I have not yet attained sufficient notoriety. However, the old article continues to appear in google searches through Wapedia. How can I remove the article completely? The information in it was not provided by me and is incorrect in some places. I look forward to an official article in the future when I've earned the listing and in the mean while do not want to confuse fans and colleagues with incorrect out of date information that I'm unable to assert quality-control on. Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.29.171.254 (talk) 03:44, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, Wikipedia has absolutely nothing to do with what goes on at websites like Wapedia. You're going to have to contact the people at that website for corrections you need made over there. --Jayron32 03:52, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Contact address. Viriditas (talk) 04:13, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

By the way: if at some point in the future there is an article about you in Wikipedia, you will not be able to "assert quality-control" on it, or provide information for it except as allowed in WP:AUTOBIOGRAPHY. --ColinFine (talk)

Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.24.92.58 (talk) 19:25, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

By the way, does anyone have any idea how many mirrors of Wikipedia content exist ? Scary ! --195.137.93.171 (talk) 15:40, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Thumbs down on an unreviewed article

I've asked this before (for a different article). What's the procedure for smiting the unworthy? Friends meeting house, Adelaide doesn't seem to be particularly notable and gets only passing mentions in the references. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:54, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

WP:AFD. Do you need help filing the AFD request? --Jayron32 04:15, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Naah. Just wondering if unreviewed pages were handled differently. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:47, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

My editing of the police brutality page

I was taken to task for using the word 'unjustified', but that is exactly what the police review board found, was that Ian Birk's shooting of John T. Williams was UNJUSTIFIED. That is NOT just MY word, it is the word used by the shooting review board! And your 'help' pages are so convoluted, how is anyone to find ANYTHING in this miasma? I don't know how to add sources, etc, but I think that the shooting of John T. Williams is far more egregious than the girl beaten in a cell, or the people beaten for jaywalking! The man is DEAD! I did NOT add that the police are still harassing his family, told his brothers, "We have more bullets for the rest of you". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cheesycat (talk • contribs) 05:58, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

See WP:REF and WP:NPOV. Jarkeld (talk) 06:06, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

deleting history

deleting history/ problem is not solved yet .

" Hi,My daughter was messing around on wikipedia and entered our home address as a joke (on the wiki entry for Red Panda) at around 20:52 today (July 19, 2011). It was deleted by someone else right away, but our address still shows up on the 'view history' tab of the Red Panda page. Is there anyway that I can delete that 'history' entry? It's a big privacy breech - believe me my daughter WILL NOT be making that mistake again. Thanks for your help! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173xxxxxx53.xx (talk) 21:14, 19 July 2011 (UTC)"

I have a very similar problem , but I don't find an answer how to solve it . Can anybody help ? Thank you in advance . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lomsarg (talk • contribs) 17:17, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi, you can have the admins permanently delete something from the history at Wikipedia:Requests for oversight. Hope that helps. Coolug (talk) 17:21, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Just for clarification for other editors, Lomsarg quoted an old post by an IP whose situation was fixed long ago. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:50, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

When can I expect some REAL help ? Please, Lomsarg. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lomsarg (talk • contribs) 16:28, 3 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lomsarg (talk • contribs)

The preceding posts were copied in by Lomsarg (talk · contribs) at 07:55, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I suggest that you continue the discussion being held at User talk:PrimeHunter#deleting history. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:42, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

about boost converter

In boost converter if we are giving the low input voltage and getting high output voltage. my question is then what is the current? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.17.181.195 (talk) 08:11, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

As the article clearly says: "the output current is lower than the source current." - David Biddulph (talk) 09:36, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

third opinion

How do I go about getting a third opinion in a dispute with another editor?

Sardaka (talk) 08:54, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

See WP:THIRD. Dismas|^(talk) 08:56, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Changing the rendering size of a TeX formula

Is it possible to change the rendering size of a TeX formula? In particular, I want to make the letters and numerals in

${{2^{42737}+1} \over 3}$

the same size as the rest of text in the article. Is this possible and if so how can I do this? Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 12:17, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Use of wp:engvar

Ok, I'm editing a page that is primarily English, as in the country, so am conforming to UK style - for example "colour" not "color", and for television, "series", not "season". The programme is shown in the US though, so what would be the correct terminology when referring specifically to the US shows, which are dubbed with American actors? Should they still be referred to as "series", or is it a "season"? a_man_alone (talk) 12:49, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

As engvar says the article should be consistent throughout except for quotes and a couple of limited exceptions. I believe you should continue on with the english english. You might want to add a note so that those of us on the other side of the ocean understand the difference. GB fan please review my editing 13:04, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Cheers. Engvar is one of my personal bugbears, and I like to see it applied correctly. I'll revisit, and make the changes. a_man_alone (talk) 13:11, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Ganesha body?

Where is God Ganesha body? The head is there, but where is the body? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramakant.sharma.h (talk • contribs) 13:46, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

This page is for questions about using Wikipedia. Please consider asking this question at the Humanities reference desk. They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link and ask away. You could always try searching Wikipedia for an article related to the topic you want to know more about. I hope this helps. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 14:02, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I suspect Ramakant is asking about a specific image of Ganesha. Of the images currently appearing in the Ganesha article, all show at least some of his body except for the image of an aum jewel. If Ramakant were to say which particular image is problematic, we might be able to help them further. Astronaut (talk) 15:18, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Problem getting picture thumbnail to display

Article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercuric_amidochloride Picture: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Eli_Lilly_%26_Company_-_Ointment_No._8_-_Ammoniated_Mercury_10%25.jpg

Best I could do was show a link. The "thumb" parameter didn't seem to function. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jhansonxi (talk • contribs) 18:27, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I think it may be because of the presence of the character % in the file name. I have requested a rename. Any commons admins/file movers around please rename.-- Obsidi♠n Soul 18:59, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, that was the problem. I processed the rename on Commons, and the image now shows up fine. ^Avic_ennasis @ 21:41, 6 Elul 5771 / 21:41, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Good to hear, thanks. :) -- Obsidi♠n Soul 22:34, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Subscription forcefully

Hello Sir/Maam, I would like to inform that your esteem company is subscribtion the unnecessary things and deducting the amount without my knowledge as just a cople of hours ago i had charged my phone amounting to Rs.110/- but without my knowledge the company has deducted unnessary serviceses like Daily jobs,Bhakti Sagar,Music connect and etc...etc. and as i havent called anyone and when i saw the balance and found that only Rs.64.47/-has remained. This is a kind of cyber extortion. sir/maam i dont need all that kind of servises even when the company gives me a free services and i swear to it. i like music but only rock but from the early 70s, like jimi Hendrix,Led Zepplin, Jim Morrison etc..etc.. so i request that the company will no more send or deduct the irritating adds and services.

with regards (Redacted) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.203.144.140 (talk) 18:49, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 3.7 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck.-- Obsidi♠n Soul 18:53, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Wrong Translation on Home Page

To whom it may concern:

On Wikipedia's home page, the catch phrase "The Free Encyclopedia" is translated in Spanish and French as "El enciclopedia libre" and "L'Encyclopédie libre" respectively. "Libre" is the correct translation to mean "free" with regards to freedom and liberation, but if Wikipedia means to use "free" as in "no charge", then the correct translation would be "El enciclopedia gratis" for Spanish, and "L'Encyclopédie gratuite" in French. I always assumed the latter meaning was intended, and as such would require a change on the homepage, if I'm mistaken and the former was actually intended, please forgive me for wasting your time.

Regards,

Khadijah Élisabeth — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.34.116.192 (talk) 19:10, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

In the English-language version, "free" means both "provided at no cost" and also "provided with no restrictions" - see Wikipedia:About and Wikipedia:Free encyclopedia. It can be hard to translate this double meaning into other languages. -- John of Reading (talk) 19:18, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:Slogans and Gratis versus libre. Many Wikipedia languages without the double meaning deliberately say libre. I'm not aware of any that say gratis. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:15, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Recovering the code of a page

Is there any way to recover the wikicode source of a page without using the "edit this page" function? I'm trying to copy stuff from a page section (here, if you want to know), but I am constantly hitting server error because the thing is just so frickin' big! Circéus (talk) 19:56, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

The page loads fine for me. I could copy it and put it in your userspace, in smaller chunks, if you like. Just drop me a line on my talk page and let me know where you want the chunks. Dismas|^(talk) 20:14, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

If you could copy only the rows for the ACC icons (they're all I need ATM), that would be very much appreciated! Circéus (talk) 20:22, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I think this is what you're looking for. Dismas|^(talk) 20:28, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a bunch. Circéus (talk) 20:36, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

The whole page only had 19,610 bytes of wikisource.[2] Were you really getting server error on the edit link? I could better understand an error when you view the rendered page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tuvalkin/BSicon0A. If you have problems viewing a rendered page then you can get the wikisource by manually appending ?action=edit to the url: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tuvalkin/BSicon0A?action=edit. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:00, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Or, it that still times out (happens to me on occasion with very large pages) you could use the API to retrieve page content, like this. ^Avic_ennasis @ 21:38, 6 Elul 5771 / 21:38, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I presumed the problem had to do with the fact that every single table line is a transcluded template ( get the same problem with 2010_term_opinions_of_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States, where a similar table-row template is probably v. complicated). Circéus (talk) 01:23, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

FWIW, here's the error message for an attempt at the section editing above: "Error: ERR_READ_TIMEOUT, errno [No Error] at Tue, 06 Sep 2011 01:33:46 GMT" Circéus (talk) 01:36, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

That's odd. It loads for me in about a second every time. Does it happen when you are logged out? I wonder whether something in your account forces reading of the transcluded pages. PrimeHunter (talk) 05:02, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Then I'd guess my insistence on using Monobook (it did indeed not fail in unlogged Vector), or something to do with my user javascript. If it's not the javascript, I,d be rather concerned about the site having pages that will fail server-side in one skin and not another... Circéus (talk) 05:24, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

I copied User:Circeus/monobook.js and changed to MonoBook. It still loads in a second for me. PrimeHunter (talk) 06:26, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Xbox 360 Achievement Lists for games

Hello, I've been submitting xbox360 achievement lists using external links to this site: http://www.x360achievements.com/ - I was notified that by doing this, I was spamming the Wikipedia site, this was not my intention. My intention was to add extra valuable, informative information to the game pages under the extra information area. Please, confirm if this breaks the wikipedia terms of use act.

Regards, — Preceding unsigned comment added by JVCode (talk • contribs) 21:27, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

The site doesn't seem to have much of value, it seems to be a very new site with very little actual content - content that is already available through official channels. It also seems to basically be a forum which violates WP:ELNO. Яehevkor ✉ 21:42, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

It also seems of low value for an external link to me but I don't edit video game articles. You could post to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games or search their archives. WP:GAMETRIVIA says achievements are considered inappropriate but I don't know whether presense of an external link has been discussed. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:55, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

questions about starting new article

Two quick questions about starting a new article. I'd like to do one about the movie "The Gymnast". When I punch in the title on Wikipedia the article about the Seinfeld episode "The Gymnast" pops up. I know to build an article about the movie I'll have to work with the disambiguation angle. The info page describing disambiguation is a bit confusing. Anyone have an abridged or easily understandable explination of the process? On the same subject, the publicized image of the DVD cover for the movie "The Gymnast" is all over the internet and in print. Can I just use the image for the article? When I download it what licensing notation should I use? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmasiulewicz (talk • contribs) 22:10, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

You can create an article at The Gymnast (film). Special:WhatLinksHere/The Gymnast (film) already shows several articles pointing there. The disambiguation process is complicated because there are many possibilities depending on the number of articles, their precise names, their relative importance and so on. The simplest in this case would be to add {{For|the film|The Gymnast (film)}} to the top of The Gymnast when you have created the new article. This renders as:

For the film, see The Gymnast (film).

You can use {{Non-free video cover}}. The "Upload file" link automatically leads you there if you select "It is a cover or other page from a book, DVD, newspaper, magazine, or similar source", and then the DVD option in the Licensing drop-down box. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:47, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Will phone calls show up on my phone bill

Will calls from my phone show up on my phone bill — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.91.107.131 (talk) 22:59, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

The better place to ask this question would be at the Reference Desk. This page is for questions about Wikipedia itself. And when you ask there, you should really point out where in the world you are and who your phone company is. Dismas|^(talk) 23:01, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Using a parameter in an infobox

{{Infobox musical artist}} doesn't have a partner (or a spouse) parameter like {{Infobox person}}. Is there a way to use the artist infobox and specify a spouse or a partner?--Bbb23 (talk) 23:03, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

If it does not already contain the parameter, I think you will have to edit and add that parameter. Currently there doesn't seem to be a parameter that would be appropriate for holding that information. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 23:09, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Even if I wanted to attempt to edit the template, I can't because it's locked. Should I suggest the changes on the Talk page?--Bbb23 (talk) 23:12, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes. See Wikipedia:Edit requests for the procedure. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 23:14, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Template talk:Infobox musical artist says: Notice: Prior discussion has determined by broad consensus that fields like "spouse" will not be added to this infobox, as they are not pertinent to a person's career as a musical artist in the vast majority of cases. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:15, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Amazing, why are they pertinent to anyone's career? Down with spouses! Thanks for the heads-up.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:51, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Spouses may be of great importance privately but they tend to play a larger public role in some positions, for example politicians and royalty. In the latter they can literally be the only reason for the position. Spouses should usually be mentioned somewhere in the article but the infobox is more focused. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:56, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Can someone please edit the page for Tim Bee, former Arizona Senate President?

I do not know html, nor do I have time to figure it out. It's now apparent to me why the majority of wikipedia editors are male graduate students in the hard sciences. I'm doing a PhD in social science, so I thought I'd become a contributor to even things up a bit and because I know a lot about immigration politics. But I'm not about to try to learn how to code so that I can do academic work for free. Anyway, the page for Tim Bee says he was succeeded in his position as senate president by Bob Burns. This is flat wrong and a stupid mistake. Bob Burns is the president of the state /legislature/. The president of the state senate is a very well-known, powerful anti-immigrant Republican named Russell Pearce. Can someone please change this? I know my students use this site and I don't want them being misinformed. Sources: http://www.azsenate.gov/, http://www.azleg.gov/MembersPage.asp?Member_ID=101&Legislature=49&Session_ID=87 Also, it would really improve the diversity of your editorial volunteers if the editing interface for this site were more user-friendly to non-techies. We know stuff, too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctorvirginiawaterson (talk • contribs) 23:15, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Er, yes, thanks for pointing out the error, and Welcome to Wikipedia (from a male contributor with an anthropology Bsc). I'll fix this if nobody else has beaten me to it. As for the user interface, yes it is a pain, and yes, we should do something about it - though unfortunately the techies are the only ones who know how... AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:26, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I think I've done this correctly now, but I'd appreciate someone else taking a look - as a Brit, I'm not too familiar with how state-level U.S. governance works. How many presidents does Arizona need...? AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:44, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Not sure about Arizona, but I've heard the gag that thanks to Congress, the United States has 536 presidents... Prioryman (talk) 23:52, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Tim Bee is not mentioned in the sources posted by Doctorvirginiawaterson. Bob Burns is only mentioned in the second source. If you don't know the website then it can seem unclear what he was president of, but it was the Senate. Lots of reliable sources call both him and Bob Burns President of the Senate in their respective terms, for example [3] from the Arizona Daily Star which says Bob Burns succeeded Tim Bee. As far as I can tell there is no position called President of the State Legislature. The article was correct before and I have reverted the edits by AndyTheGrump. Tim Bee was succeeded by Bob Burns (politician) in 2009, and Bob Burns was succeeded by Russell Pearce in 2011. It appears Doctorvirginiawaterson got confused because Tim Bee's successor is not the current president. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:22, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

This source [4] is entitled "Arizona State Legislature" and describes Bee as "President" - I wonder if this is a question of a formal title vs a common name, or whether the website is merely confusing? I can't seem to find anything that clarifies this in the Arizona constitution, [5] but I think I'd better leave this to others more familiar with such topics. AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:10, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

The source [6] is at the official website of the Arizona State Legislature. Every page at the site has the heading "Arizona State Legislature". The Legislature has two chambers: Senate and House of Representatives. Below "President" it says "Senate" and twice later he is described as "Senate president". Here is a corresponding page for the Speaker Of The House: [7]. Below "Speaker Of The House" it says "House of Representatives". Unlike the OP's claim, there is only one President in the Legislature. Since the title is unique, "Senate" may sometimes be omitted from the title, especially in contexts which already say he is in the Senate. By the way, I'm Danish and not at all familiar with the topic (we don't have bicameralism or state legislatures in Denmark and politics is not my field), but I did my research. This help desk gets a lot of "corrections" from people who claim to know what they are talking about. I always check their claims and they are often false. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:45, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Senate leadership page is at this page, where Pearce is clearly described as President of the Senate, if (and only if) you pick the right session of the legislature. The URL remains the same, no matter what session you pick at the top of the page! Bee's personal page may not have been updated recently. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:40, 6 September 2011 (UTC) (History major, poli sci minor)

Help needed with harv references

I'm rewriting an existing article in my user space (see User:Prioryman/Battle of Vukovar) but am struggling with the harv reference format, into which I'm converting existing references. Specifically, although I have got it working for books, I've been unable to get it to work for newspaper articles. Specific examples are references 113, 115 and 116, none of which works when clicked. They should all be linking through to the news stories listed under the references at the end of the article. I've no idea why this is happening; can anyone explain what I'm doing wrong? Prioryman (talk) 23:42, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

You cannot use the Harvnb template the way you attempt to do. This template is either for inline citations with a page number or for use in a reference section (see Template:Harvard citation no brackets#Usage). Anyway, the sources you want to use this with MUST be defined in a separate 'References' section. Furthermore on the first occurrence of the citation you must use {{Harvnb}} and if you want to use the same footnote subsequently you must use {{sfn}}. You can see an example of how this works in the article Wolstenholme prime. Feel free to start a new section here at the help desk if you have further questions. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 09:05, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Sine Battle of Vukovar exists, it appears you are rewriting it. Per WP:CITEVAR, you need to discuss changes to reference style before implementation. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 09:50, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I'll have to find another way to tackle the news articles, then. I actually wrote the original article, so per WP:CITEVAR the decision on reference styles is up to me, but I'll certainly notify the other editors of that article as a courtesy. Prioryman (talk) 07:48, 7 September 2011 (UTC)