Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2013 October 4

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October 4

Error in entry entitled War on Terror

The entry entitled War on Terror errs in overestimating deaths.

The vast majority of the deaths in Iraq in the 2000's were due to rivalries between Sunnis and Shiites. Regardless of opinions concerning the U.S. invasion of Iraq, it misleading and false to ascribe sectarian violence between ancient enemies to the War on Terror. The fact is that the U.S. was risking its own soldiers to prevent sectarian violence, not to cause it. One can argue that the War on Terror permitted the circumstances for sectarian violence, but it did not cause it.

The inaccurate statistics used in the Wikipedia article on the War on Terror are then used in the Wikipedia article on Deaths by war, historically. The effect is to falsely inflate the casualties of the War on Terror, which is a relatively minor event in the carnage of history so well displayed in the Wikipedia article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.183.120.112 (talk) 00:05, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

This should be discussed on the talk pages of the relevant articles, with citations to reliable sources. --ColinFine (talk) 00:15, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

wikipedia on google maps

Why is there no longer a wikipedia layer on google maps? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.249.196 (talk) 03:21, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia and Google are not connected. If Google changed Google Maps, you'll need to ask them what's up. RudolfRed (talk) 03:36, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Bit of confusion here...When was there ever a Wikipedia layer on Google Maps? I've only ever seen layers including: satellite, traffic, weather, terrain, etc. How would a Wikipedia layer work? Thanks ツ Jenova20 ^(email) 10:58, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

I believe Google Maps had a Wikipedia layer such that when you viewed an area, it would show "W" icons indicating the locations of places having geotagged WP articles and linking to the articles. I know nothing else about it, but the last two comments at Talk:Google Maps#Languages on Wikipedia Layer seem to indicate that the feature was no longer working as of August of this year, at least. And the last sentence of the "History" section in Google Maps reads "Google Maps removes the Wikipedia Layer", with no date (other than 2013) given. As RudolfRed said, one would need to ask Google why it was removed. (Note: For some reason, the software stuck my comment above Dismas's with no edit conflict even though my saving of it—I had the edit window open for some time—occurred after his posting.) Deor (talk) 12:41, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

It provided links to articles at various places as well as links to images of the place. So if you looked at the Washington Monument, it would have a link to the article and photos. Dismas|^(talk) 12:31, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I believe this is part of the preparations for the new Google Maps, which includes a Google Earth layer. Google Earth supports the Wikipedia layer, so it is likely support will be continued in that manner, rather than having it in two separate layers.  drewmunn  talk  13:52, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

A link to an article about this was posted today at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geographical coordinates: Google Maps Drops Wikipedia Layer. Deor (talk) 16:13, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

I am stupid

seems like every question I ask "NO RESULTS FOUND" been trying for almost 3hrs. not one thing have I done right — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.9.234.46 (talk) 03:47, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Where are you asking your questions? Is this about Wikipedia? RudolfRed (talk) 03:53, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

It sounds like you may be typing questions into the Wikipedia search box at the top of each Wikipedia page. This box is for the subject of Wikipedia articles, not for questions.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:49, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Hide TFD notices?

If I'm not mistaken, there's a way to hide TFD notices from appearing on a specific usage of the template, could someone tell me how? I had a few search attempts but didn't have much luck and my knowlegde of template coding is limited so can't work out how to do it from first principles. Nil Einne (talk) 04:34, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

No, this can't be done at present. All that can be done now is to omit the notice from every occurrence of a template. A parameter such as "omit TFD notice=1" could be implemented, but it would need some recoding of {{Tfm}} and {{Tfm/dated}} to have it work. That might be worthwhile, though, as otherwise a behind-the-scenes merge notice could even be displayed on a day's featured article. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:07, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

(More) I've posted a suggestion at Template talk:Tfm. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:03, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

It's possible by using {{replace}} to remove or hide the tfd code, but it's an ugly kludge. Display tfd notice on {{FAI Underage League seasons}}:

{{FAI Underage League seasons}}

One way to hide the tfd notice:

{{FAI Underage League seasons}}

PrimeHunter (talk) 10:13, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Thinking outside the box. -- John of Reading (talk) 12:26, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

how to develop a family tree

Please help me how to develop a family tree 61.245.163.6 (talk) 05:20, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 06:06, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

If you are hoping to display a family tree within a Wikipedia article, then the page you need is Wikipedia:Family trees. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:45, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Article for deletion

I tagged an article for deletion The Jewish Bolshevism. Apparently it had been nominated before and " this article's entry" takes me to the old nomination, with instructions not to edit that page. Where does the new discussion take place? I need to explain the reason for nominating it. Where should I do that? Thanks for your help. USchick (talk) 06:19, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

There's some small print about this at WP:AFDHOWTO, where it says "If this article has been nominated before...". Much easier is to enable Twinkle in your preferences; then you can select "AFD" from an extra menu at the top right, type your nomination reason into a dialog, and the tool will make the fiddly edits for you. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:43, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! USchick (talk) 15:22, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Institute of Translation and Interpreting page

Dear All

I am editing the ITI wiki page.

I have made a draft but I want to check that you are happy with it. I also would like to upload a logo and a call-ou box but I am not sure how to do these things.

Can you please tell me know the person to speak to is. The page curator?

Thanks

Sally92.239.220.13 (talk) 10:35, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

I assume that you are referring to Institute of Translation & Interpreting? Wikipedia does not have a concept of a "page curator", as in general anyone is welcome to edit the page (with the exception of any editor who may have a conflict of interest and may thus find it difficult to maintain a neutral point of view). If in doubt you can ask questions, or propose changes (supported by published reliable sources independent of the subject), at the article's talk page. - David Biddulph (talk) 10:59, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

New page redirect error

Good morning. This morning I've done my first Wiki page ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Clip_studio_paint ) but after 5 minutes, the page was directed to Manga Studio. Manga Studio is a second license of the original Clip Studio Paint, it's important, in my opinion, the readers can read every version, especially if this is the original version of the described software. Manga Studio, up to the previous version, had totally another interface. Please considering to accept my Clip Studio Paint page, without the redirect.

Thanks a lot for what you do

Tommaso Renieri — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tommaso Renieri (talk • contribs) 10:40, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

A short while after you created Clip studio paint, another editor redirected it to Celsys, which was already a redirect to Manga Studio. You may wish to ask the editor who made the redirect why he did so, and why he didn't explain it to you. I do notice that in your original version of the article, most of the references were to the company's own website, whereas in general Wikipedia is looking for coverage in published reliable sources independent of the subject. - David Biddulph (talk) 10:53, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a lot and I wish you a good day — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tommaso Renieri (talk • contribs) 13:39, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

I am forced to use https

Hello, for some reason, a few weeks ago Wikipedia started to force me to use https, so I looked into my preferences and I noticed that the "Always use a secure connection when logged in" option got checked by itself for no reason (and this applies to ALL my connected accounts, on the various Wikipedia languages, since I am also active on the Italian wiki and a few other ones). Anyway, I went there and unchecked that option by hand, and it worked as intended for a while, but as of today I am always redirected to https versions of the pages, no matter how many times I log in and log out, even if the "Always use a secure connection when logged in" option is unchecked. Even if I remove the "s" from the URL by hand, it automatically reappears. I don't want this to happen. Are there plans to enforce https to everyone no matter what? I hope that's not the case, or I'll have no other choice and I'll request to close my account.
Nineko (talk) 13:42, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

I believe that the system is migrating to all secure connection across every Wikimedia project. Out of curiosity, what does an individual have against using https?  drewmunn  talk  13:46, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

As someone who works in IT, I'm curious as well as to what you have against a secure connection. If you do leave though, you'll want WP:VANISH. Dismas|^(talk) 13:54, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

According to various discussions on Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) this is Bugzilla bug 53636 and "should be fixed in the next MediaWiki patch, scheduled for October 10". Why it takes this long to undo a mistake, and why it wasn't tested properly in the first place, nobody seems to be able to explain.
Why use an unsecure site? Speed and Autocomplete in the edit summary - I have about 150 edit summaries saved, and having to look up obscure policies to fill in an edit summary takes far too long. Arjayay (talk) 16:29, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, thanks for posting that link, I am not familiar with the "Village pump", so I came to the "Help desk" first. It looks like I'm not the only one, but at least thanks to you I found that I have to delete the "forceHTTPS" cookie (I didn't think to check for something like that, to be honest, I feel stupid now).
Nineko (talk) 17:46, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Arjayay, I don't see the connection between secure connections and edit summaries. My browser has my edit summaries saved and I've been using a secure connection. All those obscure policy links that I add to edit summaries still pop up when I fill it out. Dismas|^(talk) 23:15, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Internet Explorer does not store edit summaries for secure connections. See Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#AutoComplete – forms. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:36, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

I am not using Internet Explorer, I hate everything by Microsoft. I am a happy Firefox user.
Nineko (talk) 17:13, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Arjayay complained about losing stored edit summaries without stating the browser. Are you saying you have lost them in Firefox? I have them in Firefox 24.0. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:31, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

No, I never lost anything.
Nineko (talk) 22:40, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Well then, what is the issue then with using HTTPS? You never answered the question. Why the drama of "I'll have no other choice and I'll request to close my account"? Just doesn't make sense to me. This change (milled out about for years) was finally made after the revelations that the NSA was spying on and gathering data about all Wikipedia editors. That incident underscored the need for the extra security and privacy that HTTPS provides. Jason Quinn (talk) 15:31, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Development Department

I have listed a strip mall <redacted> and would like to have someone in your Development Dept contact me about <-redacted-> Gene Arnold — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.126.145.235 (talk) 15:24, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck.

AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:28, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

What's Wikipedia's definition of criminal?

Robert Hichens (RMS Titanic), a quartermaster on board the Titanic was convicted of attempted murder in the 1930's and spent four years in jail. Should some-related category be added into his article? Japanesehelper (talk) 16:40, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not have such a definition - we follow the sources that report the verdict of a competent court. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:44, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

If he was convicted there should be reports from newspapers - I doubt that they would have missed it. If there are, appropriately weighted text could be added to the article with an appropriate category.--ukexpat (talk) 17:05, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Category:British people convicted of attempted murder is a perfect fit, but only add the category if you add sourced mention of the conviction in the article. Google easily finds reliable sources with Robert Hichens attempted murder. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:17, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

New Subject Request

Can you please add a page with a biography for Grant Stucker. Grant Stucker played quarterback for the Colorado State University Rams from 2005-2009. He led the team to a victory over the state rival Colorado Buffalos in 2009. Grant also went to two bowl games. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.1.72.4 (talk) 18:42, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

So what? Most college players don't meet our standards of notability. --Orange Mike | Talk 23:00, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

David Dutton Page

Can you please create a wikipedia page for David Dutton. David Dutton won the 1993 hot dog eating contest in SCott's Bluff Nebraska. David is a also an outstanding guy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.1.72.4 (talk) 18:44, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

No. Winning a hot dog eating contest in Scott's Bluff Nebraska does not make someone notable by Wikipedia standards. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:52, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Getting input without forum shopping

Hi, I've posted a proposal to remove a deprecated parameter at Template talk:Infobox television#Format vs Genre: The Final Battle! I posted an invitation at WikiProject Television, hoping to get a spirited discussion going from ostensibly interested parties. It's been a few days and only one or two people have commented. I know there's no rush, but I was wondering what a reasonable next step would be? A request for comment? Is doing that likely to be perceived as forum shopping? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:12, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

It is definitely not forum shopping. The very purpose of the typical RfC is to draw larger attention to an existing discussion, whereas forum shopping is to post to A, and not liking the result, post to B (i.e., a different place). It's true that some RfC are started by posting the initial discussion and RfC trappings simultaneously, but that is the exception to the rule; you would simply be modifying an existing discussion to get more participants. Not that I would suggest it for this at all, but for an RfC that was about something of very wide importance, you could escalate the call for wider attention by advertising the RFC in {{cent}}, and the next step after that might be to seek to add it to a watchlist notice. Cheers--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:16, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

@Fuhghettaboutit: Fantastic info, thank you very much! Cyphoidbomb (talk) 06:50, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Anytime!--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:56, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Deleted pages

Hi, I want to know whether the deleted pages (in a general page of any site with MediaWiki) remains forever, because I know any admin can see the deleted pages, but can he see them only for some time or can he also see the articles deleted in 2004? --Tn4196 (talk) 19:23, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

They're permanent. RJFJR (talk) 19:48, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:Viewing and restoring deleted pages#Deletion archive. In short, all deleted pages can be viewed by admins unless the revisions were lost in the 2003 database move or the 2004 database crash. Bencherlite^Talk 19:54, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

On Other MediaWiki sites, the site operators can choose to actually remove deleted pages, and I have worked on some sites that did so choose to conserve space and make backups faster. Wikipedia does not so choose. DES ^(talk) 21:28, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. --Tn4196 (talk) 06:07, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Why does the talk page of an article redirect to the talk page of a different article?

Editing the talk page of National Planning Policy Framework redirects to Talk:Planning Policy Statements. Is this a bug? 87.115.39.168 (talk) 21:07, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

 Working --  Gadget850 ^talk 21:24, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

No, That page was moved on 24 May 2012‎, leaving a redirect behind, apparently because the NPPF page have been totally reworked and the old talk page was not relevant, or so an editor thought. User:Gadget850 just moved it back. DES ^(talk) 21:25, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Planning Policy Statements was moved to National Planning Policy Framework with redirects for the article and talk page. Then Planning Policy Statements was restored, but the talk redirect was still in place. I moved the talk page to the proper location and removed the redirect from the other, which leaves it blank. I don't know if the PPS article needs to merged. --  Gadget850 ^talk 21:33, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Many thanks for sorting this out, Gadget and DES. It confused me and left me thinking I had edited the talk page of the wrong article. 87.115.39.168 (talk) 21:42, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Statistics

Hello! I am curious if there are somewhere statistics about how often an article was accessesd via direct search on wikipedia (to exclude the views from wikilinks in other articles) 79.117.177.237 (talk) 21:23, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

I think this statistic is unavailable due to server load. I'd have to research that, but I seem to recall a question like yours being asked.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 21:45, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but maybe this does what you want. Note that this won't include redirects. πr² (t • c) 21:18, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Newbie Q's, can I create an article if I lack of DOB and DOD?

I am a fan of the RMS Titanic and I think that Wikipedia should have the article of John Jack Stewart, the last steward to see the shuipbuilder Thomas Andrews staring at a painting but I lack of DOB and DOD for him. He was born circa 1885 but don't yet know his death date I'm doing research. Can I until then create the article without such info? Thank you indeed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ZimbabweExpat (talk • contribs) 21:29, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Absolutely, you can (if the person is notable, as we use that word here). For some pointers on what to do with listing such vitals, where they are not known, please see MOS:DOB.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 21:57, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

How can I avoid being redirected to the HTTPS ("secure") site?

I had this problem before, but it seems to have resurfaced: as long as I'm logged in, Wikipedia forcibly redirects me from the usual site (HTTP) to the "secure" (HTTPS) one. Yet the option "Always use a secure connection when logged in" is not selected (this was the cause of the problem the last time). I tried logging out and logging back in, I wiped all cookies for wikipedia.org (before and after logging out), to no avail (see here for discussion about this in general). So, how can I escape this mandatory HTTPS redirection? PS: I was forced to change my password recently due to a security breach at Wikimedia: maybe this is related to the problem, and certainly it appeared just about the same time. --Gro-Tsen (talk) 23:34, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Help_desk#I_am_forced_to_use_https maybe the same issue. If not, raise your question at WP:VPT. RudolfRed (talk) 01:30, 5 October 2013 (UTC)