Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2014 November 22

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November 22

William Guy Redmond Jr.

60 years Advanced engineering at Lockheed Martin 20 Patents including: auto throttle pat.#3,362,661 Fly-by-wire pat #3,679,156 fail operate control system pat.#3,579,956 fail-safe nose gear steering system pat# 4,464,661 electrical non-electronic servo pat #3,735,228 multi-phase voltage monitor pat #3,426,864 auxiliary servo control pat# 2,787,746 override mechanism pat#3,289,490

Technical innovation award from NASA FOR HIS ULTRA SIMPLE ELECTRONIC TEMP. Controller

"This page is only for questions about how to use or edit Wikipedia". AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:14, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Added to Requested Articles page: Noyster (talk), 17:51, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Search is inadequate

Using the search bar, why are you making changes to it? For example, I want to look up City, State/Country without typing the comma. I want to look up an article with parentheses without adding it. It was a shortcut. I was surprised not to see search results coming up. It was so convenient. It's now more difficult for me, and long-time to new Wikipedia users to search articles. Why did this happen? Could you put back the old search style back?

Plus, when viewing an old revision of an article, in the pink box, you changed "It may differ significantly from the current revision". Now it's a longer, more confusing sentence. It did not change on other language Wikipedias. There have been many changes to Internet websites since June 2013 that I don't like. Two of them are listed here.

If this is not the correct place to post it, where should I post it? A Great Catholic Person (talk) 04:03, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Please note that the label on the heading field says "Subject/headline", not "What is your question?". Excessively long section headings not only add unnecessary clutter on this page, but also in the page history. I have shortened your heading from "Why are you making terrible changes to the website? The new search is poor, I cannot find topics without typing the unneeded parentheses/commas/etc. like before."

"2012 film" does in fact return 2012 (film), because that is one of the page's redirects. I don't think it would be practical to add a "city state" or "city country" redirect for every article about a city or town.

Granted, when I enter "norman oklahoma", Norman, Oklahoma comes back as the tenth hit, and it would seem reasonable to expect it to be the first. Apparently our search doesn't give extra weight to the article title, and the words "norman oklahoma" actually appear more times in other articles. We're all spoiled by Google Search and others, which employ extremely "smart" search algorithms. But I'm not aware of any change in this area in the time I've been around. ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 07:58, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

The "New search" option has disappeared from the "Beta" tab at Special:Preferences, from which I deduce that the new search is now live; a big change. For more information follow the link from Wikipedia:CirrusSearch. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:46, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Per the linked page, intitle:"norman oklahoma" returns Norman, Oklahoma as the first hit. Apparently that already existed before the change, as it's been in Help:Searching for some time. In any case, I think what the OP is asking for is more redirects, not improved search results. ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 08:55, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Mandruss (talk · contribs), John of Reading (talk · contribs), thank you, I knew there was the new search already. How can I get the old style back? Thankfully, you don't need to add accent marks/characters from other languages (type "Jurgen klinsmann", get Jürgen Klinsmann). However, type Shanghai china, Shanghai china appears before Shanghai, China, which both are redirects to Shanghai. This started about one month ago. Any way to change search preferences or whatever? A Great Catholic Person (talk) 19:34, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

John of Reading (talk · contribs), no, 2012 film returns 2012 film, yes, without parentheses. I saw that last night. A Great Catholic Person (talk) 19:36, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

@A Great Catholic Person: There's no preference option to use the old search. In your first post, does "I was surprised not to see search results coming up" mean you'd like the search to ignore the redirect and show the search results instead? That's done by typing a tilde at the start of the search box. But that was a feature of the old search too. -- John of Reading (talk) 22:05, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

John of Reading (talk · contribs), yes, that's what I meant. I know how the original search worked, I've seen that, but are you saying typing a tilde at the beginning gives me the old search? Thanks a lot! A Great Catholic Person (talk) 23:00, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

No, tilde does not give the old search. If a search starts with a tilde then it always produces a search results page and doesn't go directly to an exact title match (except for a few articles which actually start with a tilde). I think you have been misunderstood. Are you referring to the autocomplete feature below the search box where typing "Myrtle Beach, S" will suggest Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, but typing "Myrtle Beach S" will not suggest it because the comma is missing? I don't know why this was changed or whether it's permanent but I was actually annoyed at the old system. I often wanted a disambiguation page and typed for example "mercury (e" to look for Mercury (element) in the suggestions, but got irrelevant suggestions like Mercury Energy. Now I only get the element. Frequently my wanted article was the only page actually matching what I had typed, but it wasn't even listed among the suggestions until I typed more letters. Anyway, the new search is a significant improvement in my view and this is one small detail.

Most interface messages can be customized by administrators at each wiki. The pink box for old revisions is made by MediaWiki:Revision-info which was changed at the English Wikipedia on November 9 [1] per discussion at MediaWiki talk:Revision-info#intend to add info about permanent link. The change seems helpful to users who want to post or store a permanent link to an old revision and don't already know how to do it, but the addition seems unnecessary to others and some may find it annoying if they keep seeing it. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:38, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

PrimeHunter (talk · contribs), thanks so much! Yes, I'm referring to if typing "Myrtle Beach S" does not have Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. I'm surprised you were annoyed with the old search style. Wikipedia's change to the search did not do anything - it got worse by making it harder to find articles. Even the new search still shows outdated results ("UEFA Champions League 20" - UEFA Champions League 2006–2007 is first - I want UEFA Champions League 2014–15 first. Wikipedia could do better on the search drop-down list. Thanks for your comments on the search about permanent link - why not do it on other language Wikipedias? A Great Catholic Person (talk) 03:07, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Autocomplete is only one element of searching. It isn't even mentioned at mw:Help:CirrusSearch so I'm not sure whether it's actually part of the new CirrusSearch or an independent feature. Wikipedia languages are edited independently, both articles, policies, interface messages and so on. The English Wikipedia is the largest and sometimes influences editors of other languages so it's possible some languages will eventually do something similar with MediaWiki:Revision-info. All Wikimedia wikis and thousands of other wikis are powered by the MediaWiki software which comes with default messages in the MediaWiki namespace. The defaults don't link to wiki pages because no wiki pages are part of a new MediaWiki installation. The addition to MediaWiki:Revision-info links to Help:Permanent link which is a page created at the English Wikipedia. The interlanguage links to the left of that page currently only shows a version in five other languages. MediaWiki:Revision-info had already added a link to Help:Page history which has a version in more but far from all languages. The brief MediaWiki default can be seen at MediaWiki:Revision-info/qqx. Non-administrators can make suggestions on the talk page of a MediaWiki message, for example MediaWiki talk:Revision-info. {{Edit protected}} can draw attention to a suggestion. Adding ?uselang=qqx to a url, or &uselang=qqx if it already has a '?', can help identify the name of the used MediaWiki messages. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tim_Howard&oldid=634999746&uselang=qqx displays "(revision-info:...)" near the top. That means MediaWiki:Revision-info is used with the parameters in "...". PrimeHunter (talk) 10:51, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

{{reflist}} template

What is the difference between {{reflist|30em}} and {{reflist|2}}?--Skr15081997 (talk) 11:57, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Have you seen Template:Reflist#Columns? -- John of Reading (talk) 12:05, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. I hadn't seen it earlier.--Skr15081997 (talk) 13:17, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Underlined User Contribution

In the list of Help:User contributions, what it behind an underlined entry?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.92.87.25 (talk • contribs)

This might vary from browser to browser, but if an entry is underlined in Chrome with my settings it means that it is currently selected. i.e. if I were to press enter my browser would load that link. Using the tab key cycles through links, underlining to show where it is selecting. As I say though, this may not be exactly what you're seeing. Sam Walton (talk) 14:26, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

If you mean the page Help:User contributions then I don't see anything underlined there, apart from section headings. Please clarify your question. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:32, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, chorme display it still underlined when the mouse was already moved away. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.164.156.60 (talk • contribs) 07:56, 25 November 2014‎ (UTC)

Are you talking about this? ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 14:51, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

No, the entries are visible.

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.164.156.60 (talk • contribs) 07:56, 25 November 2014‎ (UTC)

Need the special: page

There's a page that provides a list of all pages with an external link; what is it? www.revenue.state.pa.us/ptrr/cwp/view.asp?a=3&q=258877 has been spammed on a bunch of articles, and I want to find all of them. Nyttend (talk) 17:17, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

[2] (via the Special pages link in the sidebar.) ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 17:20, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! I completely forgot that we had the special pages link there. ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nyttend (talk • contribs) 17:38, 22 November 2014‎ (UTC)

TIME SENSITIVE: Updating Content on a Business Page

Hello. I am a marketing manager for a US based public company with a global presence. Only mentioning this as there may be more sensitive concerns considering it is a public company as compared to a private company. We will be announcing important information surrounding the company. What is the best way to prepare this information so it can be quickly reviewed and approved? A concern is that we can't have the information go live before the announcement, and would hope that the Wikipideia content could be updated quickly in sync with or shortly afterwards. Thank you. ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.118.177.79 (talk • contribs) 18:44, 22 November 2014‎ (UTC)

Wikipedia can only pick it up if it's covered in a reliable secondary source (not a press release). If/when that happens, it would be best to provide that source and an edit request on the article's talk page. You could add it yourself, but be aware of our conflict of interest guidelines. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:50, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Also, you sign your posts with four tildes, not apostrophes. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:52, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

I know you can't give details, but if you explained what kind of thing you're talking about, it would help us help you. Is this simply a change in basic details about the company? We could use the company's website for that. For example, if there's about to be a new president, we could simply remove the old guy's name and cite the company's website for the new guy's name. Is it a big new thing that's not previously happened, e.g. the company's going to announce that it's doing something that it's never done before? Please wait until the information in question is published in a book, academic journal, or comparable print publication; we need to see if secondary sources (not primary sources such as the news outlets) determine that it's a significant event in the history of the company. Nyttend (talk) 18:54, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Mainstream news is generally OK. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:58, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Mainstream news, as InedibleHulk says, is generally considered reliable. However, as mentioned above, please read the conflict of interest policy. The best place to request the edits would be on the article talk page about the company. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:03, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Ok thanks for the info. Is it safe to say that someone would go to the company page, click on the talk tab, then edit where they would edit the content block? Then from there complete the summary field and just wait? Thanks again for such quick replies. 69.118.177.79 (talk) 20:14, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, basically the same thing you did here, but with details. You might want to add one of these to the beginning. Helps spread awareness of a request, good for talk pages without many watchers. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:46, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Mainstream news is reliable, but it's not a secondary source in most cases: it's created at the time of the event, so it's a primary source because it's a document that was created at the time under study. Nyttend (talk) 21:18, 22 November 2014 (UTC) PS, ```` (four grave accents, not four apostrophes) is an easy error for ~~~~ — just don't hold the shift key when you're signing. Even experienced editors do it sometimes; see the section just above, where I made this mistake. Nyttend (talk) 21:22, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

But if the event is an announcement of another event, and the papers cover the event announced rather than the announcement, that's secondary. Or no? InedibleHulk (talk) 21:24, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Not really. It's news — unless someone's made a mistake and published an old article, news is a primary source, as it's meant to acquaint you with what's going on, or with what has just happened. It's part of the context in which the event occurred. In such a context, a secondary source is published after the event is forgotten or after it's only remembered as something in the past: it exclusively builds on documents/memories/other items created at the time of the event. There can be further shades if you're not studying the original event (perhaps you're studying collected memories, looking at the memories rather than the event itself, so the later thing is a primary source for your study), but those shades aren't relevant for our simple encyclopedia article that covers the event itself. Nyttend (talk) 21:31, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Regarding your question, no there is no difference in conflict of interest between different kinds of companies or organizations as far as Wikipedia goes. How the media covers examples of Conflict of Interest editing at Wikipedia can however vary. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:19, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Am I the only one wondering why it matters to the company what Wikipedia's article on the subject says immediately after the time of some announcement? Dismas|^(talk) 08:23, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for all the great info. Great experience with Wikipedia participants! In regard to the comment above if the person is the only one wondering why a company would want Wikipedia updated quickly is surprising. Wikipedia information is pulled into top Google searches and is the most prominent content on page 1 in a content block that includes company logo, stock symbol and current $ and more info. It seems surprising that the question was asked as the feedback and care demonstrated here shows just why it is so valued. As mentioned in the first post, it is a public company and the information would be considered important and have to be accurate. It is just interesting how much value Wikipedia possesses and there was a simple curiosity how to update information.69.118.177.79 (talk) 18:22, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Nothing on Wikipedia is time sensitive (nor do care how or why Google search results display what they do). Wikipedia should not be part of your advertising, media or investor relations strategy - that is not its job. We catch up with company events when they have received sufficient coverage in reliable sources.--ukexpat (talk) 16:33, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

administrator

where can I find an administrator for the village pump technical?--65.8.187.212 (talk) 21:27, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm an administrator. If you want help, you can leave a note at my talk page, or you can request assistance at the administrators' noticeboard. Wherever you leave your note, please provide more context, so we can easily understand what you want. Nyttend (talk) 21:32, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Buchenwald concentrated camp

Hi,

Can you help me please, I would like to add my father's name to the list of inmate as he spent 593 days in the camp at the age of 17 yrs old after being caught by the German while blowing up a bridge with the French resistance in France and sent to the camp were he was experimented on and escape on the walk of death just before the camp was liberated by the American, I feel his name should be added Andre Leonard Eli Mommen.

I would extremely grateful for any help regarding this matter.

Many thanks.

Josiane Baxter-Mommen — Preceding unsigned comment added by Josiebaxter (talk • contribs) 21:48, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Sadly there were around 240,000 Buchenwald prisoners in total. Such lists are generally only for people who have a Wikipedia biography or in some cases people who satisfy the article requirements at Wikipedia:Notability (people). PrimeHunter (talk) 22:45, 22 November 2014 (UTC)