Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2018 August 2

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August 2

Really Red

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Really_Red

The following is the original REALLY RED page content that I am concerned with. Yes, removing some of the descriptive POV adjectives and subjective descriptions is totally acceptable but there was a whole lot of factual information that was removed and THAT should be restored. Citing sources for certain facts is near impossible other than to say I was in the band and I know them to be true. This is all too complicated tech stuff for me to sort out but I see no reason for the removal of the bulk of the info that was deleted. I am taking out the descriptive POV adjectives and subjective descriptions but please restore the rest. Here is the original page info minus descriptive POV adjectives and subjective descriptions, which I am trying to remove:

proposed article content

The Really Red line up consisted of John Paul Williams on bass guitar, Ronnie "U-Ron" Bond vocalist/lyricist, Bob Weber on drums and Kelly Younger on guitar. Really Red evolved into one of the most prominent and popular Texas punk bands of that era. As one of the original first-generation Texas punk bands they built on the punk genre bringing all kinds of influences to bear, including the influences of Texas psychedelic stalwarts like the 13th Floor Elevators and the Red Crayola. Like Austin's Big Boys and The Dicks, they made something specifically Texan out of punk rock. Their progressive socially conscious politics flaunted the Lone Star mainstream. On special rare occasions Austrian avante garde film maker, Kurt Kren, would project his films as a backdrop for the band's performance. They helped kick-start the early punk scene in Houston and spread their message further by taking to the road touring the USA several times and playing some dates in Canada. They shared the bill with acts like D.O.A., The Dicks, Circle Jerks, The Offenders, 999, The Lewd, Articles of Faith, Mydolls, SPK, John Cale, Negative Approach, Legionnaires Disease Band, Sado Nation, MDC, Vex, Culturcide, The Bad Brains, The Stranglers, The Effigies, The Big Boys and The Dead Kennedys among many others. In Houston, their efforts helped make the local scene explode and created a sense of community like no other local band had done. Along with their "paying gigs" they were known to do benefit shows for causes as diverse as The Nuclear Freeze Campaign, the Canadian Vancouver 5 Legal Defense, KPFT radio or even for a vet bill for an injured dog. They started their own independent co-op record label, C.I.A. Records. Among their accomplishments, Really Red were the first Texas punk band to tour extensively outside of Texas. They were the only Texas punk band to be included on the first nationally distributed compilation album of North American punk and alternative music "Let Them Eat Jellybeans". They were also the first Texas punk band to release a nationally distributed full-length album "Teaching You the Fear". Their song "Prostitution" appeared on the Alternative Tentacles compilation album "Let Them Eat Jellybeans". The song "Nobody Rules" was included on the compilation "Cottage Cheese from the Lips of Death". That version was intended for their "Rest in Pain" album but due to a mix up it ended up on "Cottage Cheese" while the alternative version intended for that release showed up on "Rest in Pain". The song "I was a Teenage Fuckup" appeared on the soundtrack to the film American Hardcore. Their 1st single's A side "Crowd Control" was included on the bootleg album release "Killed by Death Vol 2" while both sides of the single were legally included on the compilation album "Deep in the Throat of Texas". Their 2nd single A side "Modern Needs" was included on the bootleg album release "Killed by Death Vol 4". Really Red broke up in 1985 after releasing 2 albums, 2 singles, 2 EP's, and the tracks on various compilations. Their 1981 LP "Teaching You The Fear" was re-issued on Empty Records in 2004. Most of side two of their 2nd album, "Rest in Pain", departed from the punk genre into a dark soundscape that was a homage to the Red Crayola's "Parable of Arable Land" album. 2015 saw the reissue of all of Really Red's material, as well as unreleased rarities, by the Alternative Tentacles label. This release came as a two CD set "Teaching You The Fear: The Complete Collection" and three full length vinyl albums (see below). For years, as well as fronting Really Red, lead singer U-Ron (as Perry Coma) hosted the original "Funhouse" radio show, on Pacifica's Houston station KPFT. The only member to continue making music has been drummer Bob Weber who did a California tour with the notorious Culturcide and then joined The Anarchitex. Both bands were also from Houston Texas.

--Razzle Bathbone (talk) 06:09, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

That is a very long comment, but the crux is the third sentence:

Citing sources for certain facts is near impossible other than to say I was in the band and I know them to be true.

Wikipedia can only present facts that are verifiable via published, reliable sources. (The latter do not include blogs or advertising material.)

An additional comment, on what I see in the article's history: For legal (and often other) reasons, Wikipedia does not recycle wodges of text taken from other websites. -- Hoary (talk) 06:20, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

• @Razzle Bathbone: Several points, here:

Proposed articles should be in draft space, not at the help desk. See WP:YFA.

You have a conflict of interest: see WP:COI. This is not a bad thing, it's just a fact of life, and we can handle it.

Wikipedia article subjects must be notable by our definition, or the article will be deleted. See WP:N.

Information in an article must be cited to reliable sources. See WP:RS. Your own knowledge cannot be used: see WP:OR.

Copyright law says that all published material , including stuff on the Internet, is copyrighted even if there is no copyright declaration. Unless there is an explicit license compatible open license, this material cannot be copied into Wikipedia. -Arch dude (talk) 14:55, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

The Indian-flag-designed-by-a-hyderabadi-woman ( Suraiya Badruddin Tayyabji)

Dear Sir, I am Abid Shaik and I have gone through the details of Pingali Venkaiah and noted that he is no where related to Indian National Flag.His design was modified in 1929 and Congress party took this and used as Swaraj Flag in 1931 with Charkha Emblem.

The Current Emblem is of Ashoka and it has 24 spoke wheels. I hope you will look into it and mention Suraiya Badruddin Tayyabji's nmae as the designer of Indian National Flag.

Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badruddin_Tayyabji,_ICS

https://www.quora.com/I-recently-learned-that-a-Hyderabadi-Muslim-woman-not-Pingali-designed-the-tricolour-Indian-flag-Is-it-true

Quora and Wikipedia are not considered reliable sources because they have no editorial oversight (i.e. they are fully user-generated). Additionally, at least three sources(plus Encyclopedia Britannica) contradict the assertion. The note in the infobox (on Flag of India) says "The current flag is an adaptation of Venkayya's original design, but he is generally credited as the designer of the flag." TeraTIX 10:01, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Wrong picture

Tyler Davis who plays for the Buffalo Bills in the NFL has the wrong picture displayed when you search his name. It has a picture of an African American male who plays in the Canadian football league, Tyler is a white male who plays in the National Football League.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Billsfan7654321 (talk • contribs)

@Billsfan7654321: As 1) there doesn't seem to be an article about the Canadian player (Tyler Davis (American football) is for the Bills player) and 2) it doesn't have a picture, I assume you are referring to a Google or other search engine search; we can't help you with that. If you are referring to something else, please clarify. 331dot (talk) 10:34, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

• @Billsfan7654321: As 331dot said, you were looking at a Google result, not a Wikipedia article. Google grabs stuff from everywhere, not just Wikipedia. When our article lacks a picture, their computer algorithm finds one elsewhere on the Internet, and often grabs the wrong one. Tell google about their mistake: there is a tiny gray "feedback" link at the lower left of their display box. The quickest fix for this is for a Wikipedia editor such as yourself to find a suitable picture and add it to the Wikipedia article. Finding a suitable picture can be hard, since we insist on obeying the copyright laws of this country. Like you, we are all volunteers and each of us makes whatever improvements we are interested in. You seem to be interested in this improvement. If you need help with this, please ask. -Arch dude (talk) 14:35, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Loren Gray

Hi there wasn't a Loren Gray article so I made an account and made one but it's in draft. I feel like this should already be a page but I don't know how to get it out of draft mode! Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by WorldCupDiva (talk • contribs) 16:54, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

• @WorldCupDiva: Welcome. I added our generic welcome to your user talk page. It has some useful links. Please follow the instructions at WP:YFA attract the attention of someone who will review your article and move it from draft space to main space if it is OK. -Arch dude (talk) 17:30, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
• However, your draft will need quite a bit of work before someone will move it for you. The absolute minimum threshold is to provide references (WP:RS) that show that the subject meets our definition (not yours) of notability. see WP:N. This is fundamental. If the subject is not notable, there can be no article. In theory that is all that is needed, but in practice, your draft is such a short "stub" that nobody will be interested in moving it unless you work on it a bit more, as in WP:YFA. Please to not get discouraged. -Arch dude (talk) 17:38, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
• Here is an essay on Youtube notability at Wikipedia: Wikipedia:WikiProject YouTube/Notability. This will give you some idea of what is likely to happen to your article based on similar articles. -Arch dude (talk) 17:43, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
• @Arch dude: Thank you! I read those pages and updated the article. How does that look? I added the bio stub too. I also did a google news search and it feels like there's been significant coverage. Can you take a look again? Thanks!!

@WorldCupDiva: Sorry, I'm not one of the folks who is interested in reviewing. To attract their attention, place {{submit}} (with the curly braces) on the page. Some additional points: when you place material on a discussion page (like this one) please "sign" your material with four tildes at the end (like this ~~~~). I had to do some work to find you. Also if you are in fact Loren or are associated with her, please declare your conflict of interest (see WP:COI). There is nothing wrong with COI. We have mechanisms to work around the inevitable biases. We generally only get upset if we later figure out that you had such a conflict but neglected to disclose it. -Arch dude (talk) 21:03, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Maintenance categories

• Adrian Robinson (swimmer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Are the red cats at the bottom something new? I don't remember seeing them before, and they're ugly. Notability tags are often left in articles for a long time. In many instances, the tag isn't deserved, and in others it's a lazy editor's AfD.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:15, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

@Bbb23: They are red because someone wrote "Aug 2018" instead of "August 2018" -- John of Reading (talk) 17:23, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

@John of Reading: Ah, thanks for fixing!--Bbb23 (talk) 17:24, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Setting up a Wikipedia page for Freshworks/Freshdesk

I am part of the Freshworks team and would really like to have our wikipedia page setup. I have hit roadblocks multiple times while trying to resolve the issue between Freshworks and Wikipedia.

About Freshworks

Freshworks is a 1.5$ Billion dollar funded by google capital, Accell and Sequioa.

List of press releases

https://www.freshworks.com/newsroom/press-releases/

Recently we got featured across the globe for becoming the 5th Unicorn start up from India in 2018 and got featured on Newyorktimes, Techcrunch etc.to name a few.

Can you please let me know if there is any way to have our page setup on wikipedia.

Regards,

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mathivathan (talk • contribs)

Hi Mathivathan As highlighted on your talkpage, your company isn't notable enough for Wikipedia, and Wikipedia isn't a place to advertise your company. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:57, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Hey Joseph,

Can you please let me know what makes something noteworthy?

If you google Freshworks or Freshdesk you will find the internet flooded with articles and press release.

We are the global leader in the help desk space. I don’t want to write the page as it would be a violation but at the same time I do want Freshworks or Freshdesk to be listed by on Wikipedia. We are a 1.5 billion $ company with 100 million dollar revenue funded by google and sequoia. What else is needed to be noteworthy. I want clarification and more objective answer to what would make us noteworth?! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mathivathan (talk • contribs)

See the reasons at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:Freshdesk. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:29, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

• We have worked fairly hard over the last 17 years to refine our criteria for notability. Please see WP:NOTABLE, and in particular WP:NCORP. If you can use reliabile sources (WP:RS) to support a claim of notability by our definition, not yours, then we should have an article on your organization. Otherwise not. -Arch dude (talk) 18:33, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Also see WP:Articles for deletion/Freshdesk. LittlePuppers (talk) 19:12, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Hello, Mathivathan. I'm afraid that your choice of words indicates that - like many people who ask questions here - you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what Wikipedia is. You say "to have our page setup on wikipedia.". The closest approximation to that in the Wikipedia world (and it is not very close) is "to have an article written about us on Wikipedia". If Wikipedia ever has an article about your company, it will not be your article, it will probably be written and subsequently edited by many editors, few of whom (preferably none), will be in any way connected with your company. Your company will have no control whatever over the contents (you will be encouraged to make suggestions for improvements to the article, but nothing more). Almost nothing in the article should come directly from anything your company has said, done, or produced: it should almost all be based on what people who have no connection with the company have chosen to write about it, and been published somewhere regarded as reliable. Do you see how different from "set up our page" that is? --ColinFine (talk) 23:30, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Mathivathan, your continued refusal to comply with our mandatory disclosure rules on paid editing mean that you may be blocked very soon anyway. --Orange Mike | Talk 01:01, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

That's perfect ColinFine. How do we go about getting an article written about us? I will ensure there is no edits from anyone even remotely connected to Freshworks. Can we request wikipedia writers to write about Freshworks and Freshdesk. After seeing the notability clause, I can fairly say that we are a company of notability. Again coming back to my question, is there a way we can request someone to write about Freshworks? As of now even if someone else not connected wants to write about Freshworks or Freshdesk there is no way do that.

There is Requested Articles, but it is so backlogged that it is just about useless. I think the best thing for you to do is to move on from this matter. If an independent editor comes across independent information about your company that indicates it meets WP:ORG, they will likely create an article about it on their own. If there is anything you want to edit about other than your company, you are welcome to once you formally comply with WP:PAID. 331dot (talk) 09:51, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

• We do not want you to "fairly say" that the subject is notable. We want you to document the fact that it is notable, using multiple, substantial, independent reliable sources, as very carefully and completely described at WP:ORGCRITE, which is a subsection of WP:NCORP that you have already been directed to. If you cannot provide citations for these sources, then do not bother to pursue this matter. If you can provide these citations, then do so, don't just tell us you can do so. -Arch dude (talk) 16:54, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Deletion

Is my page to be deleted because I mentioned Amazon is distributing my book. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baracco (talk • contribs)

@Baracco: Your question has been answered at the teahouse. Please only ask questions at one place at a time. LittlePuppers (talk) 19:14, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Editing the Two Ton Baker article

I am the "Richard Baker" referred to in this article as Two Ton Baker's biographer. But I have never used my formal first name: I'm Dick Baker, which was my masthead listing and byline when I was a writer/editor at "America Illustrated" magazine for 14 years. I've never written or edited a Wikipedia article before, and when I went into editing mode on that page to change this reference, the change was rejected. It's my intention to change the Notes section line from

  Two Ton Baker's biographer, Richard Baker, is no relation.

to

  Two Ton Baker's biographer, also named Dick Baker, is no relation.

Also, I want to change the five footnotes that link to my twotonbaker.com website biography (#s 2, 4, 6, 20, 28) from "Baker, Richard" to "Baker, Dick" but I couldn't even find a way to access the footnotes for editing. Can you put me in touch with one of your regular, and knowledgeable, editors so I can consult with him about these edits?

 Done - I recommend you add your byline with the preferred spelling of your name to the article on your site, at least at the start of the first page. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:46, 2 August 2018 (UTC)