Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 April 28

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April 28

Vandalism or a bug?

For some reason this Xtabay gave thumbnail picture for this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Vomit_on_plate.jpg/480px-Vomit_on_plate.jpg

In the article ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xtabay ) I changed this line ("[ [" and "] ]" are omitted for technical reasons):

File:Ceiba_Tree_-_panoramio.jpg|alt=|thumb|296x296px|Xtabay is said to loiter at the foot of the sacred ceiba tree to lure men to their doom

Into this:

File:Ceiba_Tree_-_panoramio.jpg|thumb|296x296px|Xtabay is said to loiter at the foot of the sacred ceiba tree to lure men to their doom

And the problem disappeared. Why..? 88.115.35.43 (talk) 00:35, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Apparently "thumb" should be before "alt=". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Files#Using_files — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.115.35.43 (talk) 00:45, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

The lead uses {{Maya civilization}} which was vandalized four days ago. It was quickly reverted but mw:Page Previews uses cached information. The cache was updated when you edited the article. It doesn't matter what the edit is. A purge also works. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:57, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! 88.115.35.43 (talk) 01:11, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Guidelines for two AfD noms of two articles about different topics with the same name

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chris Tyson (2nd nomination) is incorrectly tagged as 2nd nomination, as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chris Tyson is about an unrelated footballer. What are the recommended actions for such situations? Aaron Liu (talk) 00:58, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

I have removed the misleading "AfDs for this article" box.[1] I think it would create more confusion now than it solves to move the page away from the "2nd nomination" name. The nomination says "The previous AfD was for a completely different person". PrimeHunter (talk) 03:06, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Edits on China about India's population

I found there are plenty of similar edits and reverts made recently in one way or another after reverting one of them.

Apparently India is about to be the world most populous in stead of China. The one I reverted read "but is expected to be overtaken by India by the end of April 2023." I do not think this sort of sentence is encyclopedic or encyclopedia-worthy.

As I've described in the edit summary "we'd be having [norway/iceland/singapore/insert any country]'s population or something else behind India or some other country everywhere". It's quite apparent this does not belong to any specific country article, in the very least, not in the first paragraph in the lead anyway.

I would like to prevent more edits like this from happening, and perhaps if necessary, quick ban on further similar edits as it seems to becoming more and more. MarvelousPeach (talk) 06:24, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello, MarvelousPeach. India overtaking China as the world's most populous country is a major event in world history. Of course this fact is encyclopedic and belongs in both India and China. This has nothing whatsoever to do with Norway or Iceland or Singapore, so I do not know why you are mentioning those less populous countries. What is the policy basis for saying that you want to prevent more edits like this from happening? Cullen328 (talk) 06:57, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Dear friend, first of all, no, it's not, it's not a major event, it's a statistical estimation. Secondly, it does not belong to the lead because we do not draw those comparisons in the first paragraph in the article because there are simply way more important stuff, like the most basic facts about a country. An encyclopedia article is not a news gazette, and we do not include things because they are recent development, unless China suddenly disappear from the earth out of thin air, we do not have the room for such prediction or news. Thank you. MarvelousPeach (talk) 07:07, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

A country being the second most populous on the planet seems plenty notable to me. A better location is Talk:China for this discussion. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:11, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Let's not straw-man here, stating "China is the world's second most populous country" is an entirely different thing than saying "China has a population of XXX, is expected to be overtaken by India by XXXX". The first is basic fact, the second is news, and probably not even worth the headline of the day when it does happen. MarvelousPeach (talk) 07:16, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

MarvelousPeach, this article India overtakes China to become world’s most populous country says that this is the most significant shift in global demographics since records began.Cullen328 (talk) 19:49, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

I’m sure it belong somewhere but certainly not the kind of content we want in the first paragraph where we introduce the subject, unless maybe the subject is about demographics MarvelousPeach (talk) 21:29, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

You are discussing a content dispute - the correct location is the talk page of the effected article. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:31, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Dear friend. This is becoming an issue unfortunately when it keeps getting added. And no it’s not a content dispute there is no dispute about the content in specificity. It goes to the general style of writing and criteria of inclusion. If people feel the need to include news like this in the way it is written in the first paragraphs of the leads, articles especially with subjects of such breadth will soon become unreadable. I won’t include Brexit in the first paragraph in the UK no matter how significant people think it is. Those things are temporal and some are way more fundamental. I’m rather displeased when we make effort to make articles more succinct and readable, people still think that is important or this is important and thus deserve inclusion when in reality it just bloats content that makes an article harder to process. This may be fine and tolerable in other sections of an article, but should be frowned up in the lead and especially the first paragraph. The word number is especially limited here. Thanks. MarvelousPeach (talk) 23:56, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

For someone who is yet to complete their first month of participating in the Wikipedia project, you seem remarkably opinionated on how things should work. Bazza (talk) 09:14, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Article language and country

Hello, my name is Feruza. I am working in Laba Turkey company. Laba is a global company which has brands in 9 countries and Laba Turkey is one of them. We are planning to launch a wikipedia article for Laba. I have a question. Do we need to share content on Wikipedia on every language for each country separately, for example, for Laba Turkey it will be in English and include the information only about Laba Turkey brand or do we need to share only one article in English for Laba global where we can mention that we have brands in 9 countries? I am little confused here. Can you please guide me? Thank you in advance. 88.254.2.45 (talk) 08:30, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

I think you'll find you're not about to launch anything on Wikipedia. I suggest you read the following guidelines before investing any more of your time and effort: WP:PROMOTION, WP:AVOIDCREATE, WP:COI, WP:OWN, WP:RS. When you've read them, you can come back here to ask any questions you might have. Bazza (talk) 09:04, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Unstable page

I'm trying to copy edit Vande Bharat Express, however the page seems to be going through an unstable period (idk if I should call it an edit war) and the GOCEinuse template did basically nothing. It's a bit hard trying to copy edit with all that stuff going on and I don't know what to do right now. Vamsi20 (ask me questions) (see what I've edited) 13:03, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

@Vamsi20: If an article is being unstable at the time of editing, the best thing to do is abandon it and work on something else. If this is an article that was requested, I'd put the request on hold and mention the editors who are editing said article on WT:GOCE/REQ to let them know the request may be declined if they continue to edit and make substantial changes. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 14:06, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Alright, I've finished the copy edit for now, will see if the stable situation will hold. Vamsi20 (ask me questions) (see what I've edited) 14:09, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

help

Hello, I am an editor from the Hebrew Wikipedia, I created a new entry, but it has some problems. I would appreciate it if someone could help - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_talk:European_Jewish_Association Thank you! דגן דיגן (talk) 14:19, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

@דגן דיגן: It seems that there's a huge gap in policy between the English and Hebrew Wikipedias. If I were an AFC reviewer, I would decline it immediately as it comes off as blatant promotion. §History is uncited, and so is the first half of §activity [sic]. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 14:46, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Well, what would you suggest we do? דגן דיגן (talk) 15:02, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

@דגן דיגן: Hi there! If you are a member of the Association or have any other conflict of interest, you must disclose it on your user page.

Next, read Help:Your first article. Then delete all the text and start again, using only information from independent reliable sources. Hope this helps, and happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 15:25, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

For one thing, get rid of §Goals. I'm more interested in what an entity has done rather than what it wants to do when I read an encyclopedia. The writing right now is something I might see in thinly-veiled ad copy. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:28, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

This is not "urgent" in any way. We have no deadlines here.

Also: what is your connection to the Association? --Orange Mike | Talk 15:25, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

I would like to emphasize that I have no connection to the association, or any other conflict of interest.

Second, I edited the entry according to the entry in Hebrew, with a source from news sites. How do I delete and start again? What will I write in the entry? דגן דיגן (talk) 15:29, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

@דגן דיגן: You can go to Draft:European Jewish Association, click "Edit Source" and delete all the text after the first sentence. What you could write is a summary of what the independent reliable sources have published about the association. GoingBatty (talk) 18:46, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

I didn't mean simply, "how do I delete", I meant to explain that I wrote the entry in Hebrew and then sent it to someone who would translate it into English (I don't know English, I'm writing here using Google Translate) and I also added the sources that were approximately in Hebrew (of course there is no source after Every sentence or so, it's impossible..). I only had trouble adding the image and external links (which are approximately in Hebrew).

Following all the messages written here and the realization that I will not be able to edit the entry myself: if someone can go through the entry, adapt it if necessary to the writing style here, delete inappropriate paragraphs and add a picture and external links from the entry in Hebrew - I would be very grateful. If there is no such person - you can delete the draft. tagging GoingBatty. thank you all! דגן דיגן (talk) 18:10, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

@דגן דיגן If you don't speak English, and only Hebrew, then why are you trying to make the article on the English Wikipedia? Club On a Sub 20 (talk) 19:38, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Nevermind, I re-read the post. Now I understand. Club On a Sub 20 (talk) 19:40, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Question regarding username possibility

Hello! I've signed myself up as an instructor at the CVUA and decided to modify someone else's training page to use for those who I am training, and i noticed one of the example of an inappropriate username the trainee has to identify is "172.295.64.27". Are users actually able to register a username like this? I thought users aren't able to register usernames that look like an IP address (not just that its against policy but that it physically wont let you). ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 15:49, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Why not just try it and see and report back? I'd do it myself, but WP logs you out of all devices when you log out of one, and that's too much hassle... -Floquenbeam (talk) 15:54, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

I also don't like a hassle, but you can try in an incognito/private window. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:58, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

If I admit that I didn't know you could do that, would I get desysopped for technical incompetence? Anyway, I followed your (SFR) suggestion and tried to register such a name, and I get an error message that all usernames must have at least one non-numeric character. I assume the account I know of that is just a number is grandfathered in. You (BW) can safely remove that example. Floquenbeam (talk) 16:04, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Alright sounds good, I had a feeling that wouldn't work but didn't want to remove it if it did. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 16:05, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Can you make an account that matches an ipv6 address, or looks like one at a glance? Maybe updating the question is a better idea? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:40, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

I would much rather not register an account that is against policy just to see if it works. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 15:59, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

I promise when I block you for it it'll only be for a month instead of indef. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:07, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Where is your sense of adventure? If everyone had that attitude, we'd have missed out on so many good stories. Did you know it is physically impossible to delete the main page? Floquenbeam (talk) 16:10, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm not ready to go to the stocks quite yet. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 16:17, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

@Blaze Wolf Well, that's one way to get around the IPv4 limit on number of addresses. Maybe their part of the world uses larger numbers! David10244 (talk) 20:36, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Vandalism help request from 1899X

I have noticed some vandalism at List_of_literary_works_by_number_of_translations. Namely, 85.61.167.42 is constantly removing The Little Prince from the page. Several users including me provided an updated source but this person seems to have a problem with this particular book and now deleting the whole section without providing any others sources. Would an editor please assist me with fixing it? Thank you, 1899X (talk) 16:32, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

@1899X, this doesn't seem to be vandalism as Wikipedia defines it; it's a content dispute. The reliability of the source has been questioned. I don't see a post by you on the talk page or on the IP's talk page. Please follow dispute resolution procedures. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:43, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Nah, this is POV pushing by someone who's been at it with a few different IPs over the past few months, and they've been reverted numerous times by numerous editors. I've added another source from The Little Prince which would ostensibly resolve the source issue, but watch for them to come back and remove the entry again anyway. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 16:47, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

If it's an LTA, then yes, they probably will. WP:RFPP would be the way to go if they persist. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:56, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Referencing errors on PlanGrid

Reference help requested.

Hi, can you tell me the right format to use to fix this?

Thanks, Kfrg35 (talk) 17:27, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

@Kfrg35, you need to add a title to the {{Cite web}} template you used. What's the title of the page? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:39, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! I'll try that. Kfrg35 (talk) 17:42, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

That worked! Thanks. Kfrg35 (talk) 17:45, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Emergency shut off

if twinkle were to start making disruptive edits, do we have an emergency shut off switch for it? Blitzfan51 (talk) 17:27, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

@Blitzfan51, Twinkle is not a bot, it's a gadget. If it stopped functioning correctly, hopefully the folks using it would notice, stop, and file a report. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:36, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Creation of a new Wiki page

Hello- I was tasked with creating a new wiki page for our company. I've read through the instructions provided, but when I get to the creation part, it says i'm creating an article. Is this the same as creating a brand new page? Apruyn314 (talk) 18:46, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

@Apruyn314: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, which means that it is not a place to promote the company you work for. As you have a paid relationship, you must disclose said affiliation on your user page at User:Apruyn314. I strongly suggest letting your superiors know to look for a different venue, because your company is not going to have any control over what is written on an article about it. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:51, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

The content of the encyclopedia is called articles, not pages. 331dot (talk) 18:56, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

@Apruyn314 You will NOT be "creating a new wiki page FOR your company." You might write a Wikipedia article ABOUT your company--although the chances that it will then be accepted are extremely remote (and non-existent if you don't disclose your affiliation). Should you manage to come up with something that passes muster, then virtually anybody in the world will be able to edit it--including adding information that your company might prefer not to add. And if that information is relevant and properly backed up by reliable sources, there will be pretty much nothing your company can do about it. Uporządnicki (talk) 18:59, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't have pages, it has articles. scope_creep^Talk 07:59, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Apruyn314. I'm afraid that whoever tasked you to do this has no idea what Wikipedia is. Please read (and show them) WP:BOSS. ColinFine (talk) 10:34, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Nature's Sunshine Company - Industry Edit

Hello, my name is Keith Duncan and I work for MMI Agency, the agency that is responsible for the Nature's Sunshine website. This is the Wikipedia posting for NSP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature's_Sunshine_Products. My client has informed me that they do not want to be known as a multi-level marketing company. Instead they would like to be known as a Natural Health and Wellness Company. I made the changes and within seconds they were changed back. I would like this change to be permanent and not changed back, at the company's request. Kduncan22084 (talk) 22:10, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia summarizes what independent reliable sources say about a topic. If the preponderance of independent sources describe the company with a certain term, that's the term we use. The company is free to describe itself as it wishes on its own website, but not here. 331dot (talk) 22:21, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Please use the article's talk page to discuss its content, but you will need to show that either sources are inaccurately summarized, or that most use a different term. 331dot (talk) 22:24, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for saying that you're working for this company, Kduncan22084. The place to propose this change is Talk:Nature's Sunshine Products. In the interim: I do note that the sources currently cited in the article are either unsatisfactory or old; however, googling "nature's sunshine products" multilevel quickly took me to, for example, "Multilevel marketers in health and wellness continue hot streak", a 2021 article that calls NSP a MLM company. -- Hoary (talk) 22:26, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

@Kduncan22084, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, with articles about companies, not by companies. I am confused however, by the request the company has made of you. Right here on their own website, on a page titled "Marketing plan NSP in simple language" they say Nature’s Sunshine’s philosophy is to care for people’s health combined with the possibility of a stable business. You can start your own business today and without any investment! Unlike many companies, Nature’s Sunshine does not charge an entrance fee. NSP’s business is built on network marketing. We describe companies as they are and are not part of a public relations program. StarryGrandma (talk) 23:31, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

In the bribery scandal section, ref 5 used to have an archived link. Now it's back to the original link, which gives a 404. I'm not quite sure how to replace the archive link. David10244 (talk) 21:50, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

@David10244 I found an archive link and have added it. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:21, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull Thanks. I'm not sure when the original archive link (which still works) went away. David10244 (talk) 18:27, 30 April 2023 (UTC)