Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 September 7

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September 7

Redirect

I'm trying to modify a redirect with the intention of creating a new article about the subject {{ill|Tom Ahlström|sv}} (who along with Hans Ehrich, founded A&E Design). Ideally, I would liked to remove the redirect entirely, add the Swedish WP:ILL per above to the articles that mention Ahlström, and then draft the article in due course. I've tried moving the page to draft space and removing the redirect, but I seem to have gotten something wrong. Please advise. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 08:02, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Cl3phact0 the best way to create Tom Ahlström, when Tom Ahlström is a redirect is to start Draft:Tom Ahlström and then use Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests to move your draft to article space. You have moved the redirect Tom Ahlström to Draft:Tom Ahlström, I would suggest that you ask RM/TR to move it back. Then you could start your own draft at Draft:Tom Ahlström. Alternatively, you could start a Userspace draft. TSventon (talk) 08:49, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

[edit clash] Cl3phact0 I've read your message above three times but still don't understand your predicament. Tom Ahlström was a redirect to Draft:Tom Ahlström (which, as it happens, exists but is blank); redirects from article space to draft space are improper, and this was a good enough reason for me to delete Tom Ahlström a few minutes ago. -- Hoary (talk) 08:53, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Hoary the problem was caused by Cl3phact0 moving the redirect at Tom Ahlström to Draft:Tom Ahlström. TSventon (talk) 08:59, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

TSventon, if there are times when it's appropriate to redirect from mainspace to draftspace, then I can't think of them. I rather assumed that a page move from article to draft would disable the regular page-move option to create a redirect. If creation of a redirect is possible, then we just have to try to remember not to ask for it. -- Hoary (talk) 09:38, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Hoary, as an ordinary (extended confirmed) user I can only move pages leaving a redirect, I don't have the choice to ask for a redirect. I believe that mainspace to draft redirects are regularly patrolled and deleted, so they are not a major problem. TSventon (talk) 09:54, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Exactly. That's why I brought the matter here! I was (I thought) piecing together the correct procedure and steps to: get rid of the redirect; turn the page into a draft (hence the move to draftspace); and then begin writing a new article. I noticed that something hadn't worked as expected when I tried to add the Swedish inter-wiki link to the Hans Ehrich article. I too rather assumed that a page move from article to draft would disable the regular page-move option to create a redirect (I may have neglected to tick/un-tick the right box – this is the first time I've attempted this operation). For future reference, is this something that can be done, of does it require higher-level user rights? Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 13:24, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Cl3phact0 what you should have done was

• create Draft:Tom Ahlström and work on it until it was suitable for article space
• try to move Draft:Tom Ahlström to Tom Ahlström (should be possible if the redirect has no history)
• request a move from Draft:Tom Ahlström to Tom Ahlström at Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests

now you could

• create Draft:Tom Ahlström 1 and work on it until it was suitable for article space
• move Draft:Tom Ahlström 1 to Tom Ahlström

or

• just create Tom Ahlström and work on it

As an extended controlled user you have to leave a redirect when you move a page, so there is no box to tick. Wikipedia:Page movers can move pages without leaving a redirect, but I don't know what their screen looks like as I don't have that permission. TSventon (talk) 13:52, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

TSventon, Hoary, thank you both for you help. What threw me off was the existence of the redirect (which prevented the addition of the Swedish article link). Again, I had thought the operation was possible as executed. All good now (see: Draft:Tom Ahlström and the related articles – which is what I had initially set out to achieve). Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 14:10, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Cl3phact0, the first edit of Draft:Tom Ahlström is by another user, so when you publish the article it will appear on their list of articles created, not yours. I don't know whether that matters to you. TSventon (talk) 14:16, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Interesting. I hadn't considered this, nor had I ever looked at the list. (I used this tool, though perhaps there is another, better way to see this information? I do keep track informally here, however, this page is really more of an aide-mémoire.) Is there some aspect of WP etiquette or any reason why this could be annoying to the user who created the original redirect page (now a draft)? Should I start over from the beginning? -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 15:02, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

I look at the Articles created link at the bottom of my transactions listing and it shows me the same tool. WP:EDRED says you can edit a redirect to make it into an article, so I don't see any reason for the redirect creator to be upset. TSventon (talk) 15:14, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Ok, great, thanks. (For what it's worth, WP:EDRED is what first gave me the idea I could get rid of the redirect by making it into an article and converting it into a draft! It seemed so straightforward and logical, alas.) -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 15:25, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Is there any campaign to collection of fund in Wikipedia?

Fund collection 103.203.72.136 (talk) 08:27, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

The Wikimedia Foundation collects funds to support Wikipedia in hundreds of languages and other free knowledge ventures. Unaffiliated fundraising efforts are not permitted here. Cullen328 (talk) 08:34, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Where does this email address go to?

Recently noticed that at Wikipedia:Contact us/Readers, in the vandalism section, it has an email address info-en-v@wikimedia.org. Couldn't really find any information on who reads the emails sent. I wouldn't really ever need to email this, but if you sent an email to this, who would receive it? TechyTommy (talk) 12:54, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Probably a member of the Wikipedia:Volunteer Response Team as that page mentions blatant vandalism. TSventon (talk) 13:02, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

That's correct, info-en is a VRT queue that can be accessed by multiple VRT agents. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:00, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia rejects sources for being "Paywalled"? That seems ridiculous, most public newspapers of record have paywalls.

I tried to repair vandalism on wikipedia and restored an obituary date sourced to The Times, which is a British newspaper that has been a paper of record since 1785. [1] ToadEtte undid my repair with an insulting comment "Source doesn't mention the age, also source is paywalled. Go get another source to verify." This seems absolutely insane to me. Almost every public newspaper of record has to keep paywalls these days to try to generate revenue for operating expenses. If I tried to source to a book, would they demand I buy them a copy of the book or not count the source too????? 76.143.192.237 (talk) 14:47, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Paywalled sources can certainly be used: see WP:PAYWALL. But a source that doesn't confirm the information it's cited for is not useful. I don't see what's insulting about that edit summary , though. ColinFine (talk) 14:51, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Access_to_sources "Do not reject reliable sources just because they are difficult or costly to access."

The source should be fine and was already used on the main page for the person. I copied the sourcing to the date page because vandals have been misrepresenting the policy and deleting random names rather than checking if a source for the dates was available. 76.143.192.237 (talk) 14:58, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

None paywall version via Archive today [2] Timur9008 (talk) 15:02, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Be very careful about calling something vandalism which is not, in fact, vandalism by Wikipedia's definition of the term (see WP:VANDALISM, specifically the part at WP:NOTVANDALISM). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:59, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

"Sneaky Vandalism" includes "reverting legitimate edits with the intent of hindering the improvement of pages." It takes just a few seconds to see if there's a source in the linked bio and copy it into the list. These multiple people doing this are just trying to exploit a loophole, deleting random content that has perfectly good sourcing available in a DISRUPTIVE manner that is not beneficial to wikipedia. 76.143.192.237 (talk) 20:30, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

It seems you need to read Wikipedia:Assume good faith. Just because someone makes a mistake doesn't mean that they're out to get you. Industrial Insect (talk) 16:09, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Blocking an IP range

There has been an Italian IP range beginning with 93 that has been vandalizing Sikh and Punjabi-related Wikipedia articles for months now, doing so for seemingly multiple times every week. I am tired of reverting their constant vandalism endlessly as they never stop their damaging edits. Is there anyway I can get this IP range blocked? I am not sure how to go about doing so. MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 15:13, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

@MaplesyrupSushi, you can get a range block at ANI. Just bring a few diffs and a few example addresses in the range(s) they've been operating from. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:08, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 16:14, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

If it's a smallish group of articles, WP:RFPP may also be a place to report it. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:56, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

@Beeblebrox - Thank you MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 23:01, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

How to download Wikipedia content and/or software and/or create derivative works of Wikipedia?

I want to know about downloading content from Wikipedia site. Baloshie Khan (talk) 18:59, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Check out Wikipedia:Database_download RudolfRed (talk) 19:17, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Commonwealth Youth Council

Hey I am new to Wikipedia and I wrote an article about the commonwealth youth council and it got rejected cause there weren't enough references but I cant any info other then there actual website what should I do ABDZee (talk) 20:03, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

If there are no other references, then the subject won't meet WP:N, so it's not suitable for an article. Check out WP:BACKWARDS. You want to get the sources first then write the article. RudolfRed (talk) 20:09, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

It wasn't rejected because "there weren't enough references", it was rejected because the sources weren't good enough. It looks as if none of them were independent. You'll need reliable independent published sources with extensive discussion of the subject, to establish that it's notable enough to warrant a Wikipedia article. Maproom (talk) 20:45, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

I've never seen this before.... Wikipedia as a Personals Ad?

Special:Contributions/Wyndhampriscilla A message to a named police officer (including naming his wife?) asking for contact info? No idea how to remove it. CMacMillan (talk) 20:20, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Check out WP:CRD. Qcne (talk) 20:24, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! See something new everyday ;) CMacMillan (talk) 20:25, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing this out, CMacMillan. I've deleted it, and warned the user who wrote it. -- Hoary (talk) 22:31, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

veracity of Serhiy Pashynskyi wiki article

The wiki article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serhiy_Pashynskyi does not mention that the individual, "Serhiy Pashynskyi owns a major arms company. This seems like a significant oversight. When I read wiki articles, I expect good information. Ukrainian Armored Technology is the name of the company and it should be mentioned because the guy is supposedly an arms dealer. 2601:603:5400:F5D0:41D3:EE68:CDB2:B5E4 (talk) 20:25, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Hello. Wikipedia articles rely on volunteers adding information to them. If you have a reliable, independent source that states this person owns this company, please make the suggestion to the article Talk Page. Qcne (talk) 20:28, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

My clients wikipedia page is on nl.wikipedia and needs to either be linked to en.wkikipedia or transferred to and english new page as the language should be changed in english and my client should be found on english pages.

What can i do to either crete a new englisg page or change nl.wiki to en.wiki PascalleWongAFoe (talk) 21:01, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

@PascalleWongAFoe Please read and comply with WP:PAID first 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:03, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

What happens next depends upon your declaration made to the formal message left on your talk page. Please only come back here when you have made a formal answer 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:05, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

@PascalleWongAFoe Your client does not have a wikipedia page, whereas Wikipedia has, certainly in the Netherlands, a Wikipedia article on your client. Please read WP:OWN. You may wish to disabuse your client about page ownership. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:16, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Timtrent, some fellow named Emil Lee has a page (an article) in Dutch-language Wikipedia and also has a page (an unsubmitted draft) in English-language Wikipedia. If anyone reading this is subject to the strangely popular myth that "having" X entails "possessing" either X or rights to/over X, I draw their attention to definition 3 of verb have in Merriam-Webster: "to stand in a certain relationship to" (which MW illustrates with "has three fine children" and "we will have the wind at our backs"). -- Hoary (talk) 22:22, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes, has, like many words, has more than one meaning. People who understand that nobody owns a Wikipedia article may very well use it with that meaning; but it is clear that many people who come here with questions about a draft article (especially where they have a COI) have the misconception that the relationship between an article and its subject is a good deal stronger than that, and I believe that it is helpful to avoid using a word which can so easily be misunderstood in that way. ColinFine (talk) 22:36, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

ColinFine, that sounds a lot more reasonable. Yes, have is polysemous. Moreover, in very common uses, it has been bleached of virtually all meaning, though it can still be governed by convention. (1) "Emil Lee has a page": grammatical and acceptable. (2) *"This page has Emil Lee": unacceptable and (with the expected meaning of "Emil Lee") ungrammatical. (3) "This page has Emil Lee as its subject": grammatical and acceptable -- and I doubt that even the most fanatical have-exterminator would claim that the third of those implies ownership of Lee by the page. -- Hoary (talk) 23:03, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Having a page about

I will say this, as far as I'm concerned Emil Lee is notable enough for a Wikipedia page (serving in the Cabinet of a Nation actually qualifies), Next step is probably to actually put the references in the right place. And keeping it in draftspace until this is actually put into the right format is probably best.Naraht (talk) 22:49, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

But let's not get carried away. It may have a "national" football team, but Sint Maarten hardly satisfies the most salient definition of "nation". It's very much more populous than, say, Wasilla; yet its population is about a tenth of that of Anchorage. Well, let's see if the subject satisfies WP:GNG. -- Hoary (talk) 23:12, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Lee's vote of no confidence (against) was carried by 8 votes to 7. Not the biggest place to be a cabinet member in. My local council is somewhat(!) larger.

Lee not only has an article n nlwiki, there are not one, bit two drafts in enwikli (one in user space, and PascalleWongAFoe has not communicated with anyone save for their post here. They have most assuredly not yet complied with WP:PAID. When they do, and there are two unreplied to warnings now on their talk page, their draft(s) will be given correct consideration within WP:BIO.

Obviously anyone can do the formatting and reference work. I choose that this not be me. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 06:26, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Best method for search query

Hi! I’m wondering if any editors will know a tool I can use to perform a specific type of search query.

I’m trying to find articles that (a) contain the word "mayor" in the article body, have the word "west" in the title, and are categorised as being about a human.

I managed to perform a search on Wikipedia using the first two conditions. However, I couldn’t manage to incorporate the third condition, because - as I understand it - Category:People goes too deep for the WP search system.

I thought about using the Wikidata Query Service - where I can filter results to only items where the property ‘instance of’ has a value of ‘human’, but I’m unaware of how I can use this to search for the word ‘mayor’ within the linked articles themselves.

If anyone has any ideas for a search service that would be able to return results for this type of query, I’d therefore appreciate hearing about it!

Many thanks! All the best, A smart kitten (talk) 23:26, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

@A smart kitten: Hi there! Are you looking for living people or deceased people or both? GoingBatty (talk) 01:50, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi @GoingBatty, thanks for your response! I’m looking for both living and deceased people. Best, A smart kitten (talk) 06:26, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

@A smart kitten: WP:Petscan might be able to do this. Mathglot (talk) 09:20, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

@A smart kitten Can you expand on what sort of article you are really trying to find? Most articles about people will be titled according to that person's name, so what's the purpose of limiting the search to titles containing "west"? Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:44, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

I assume that A smart kitten is looking for articles that might be added to the dab page Mayor West (disambiguation). Deor (talk) 15:06, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

OK that helps. Any article about a person whose surname is "West" should have Wikidata property (family name) P734 = Q2564123, see Wikidata:Q2564123. Someone more competent than me should be able to construct a query to combine this search to limit it to articles including the word "mayor". Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:47, 10 September 2023 (UTC)