Wikipedia:Peer review/Ira T. Wyche/archive1

Ira T. Wyche

I've listed this article for peer review because I am not sure how to take it further (to A or featured class). I hold no illusions that the article is close to either A or featured status, but I would like suggestions on how (if at all possible) to take it further.

Thanks, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 11:44, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Comments

• Thanks for looking over this, Nikkimaria. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 13:35, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Given the length of the article, suggest expanding the lead

• Done Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 13:35, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Possible to mention how many people were in his class, to put the 68th into perspective?

• Added Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 13:35, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Suggest reorganizing so his wife and daughter are in the correct place in the chronology, or reworking the Later life into a Personal life section

• Done Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 13:35, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• What did he do between 1948 and 1981?

• I really couldn't find that anywhere. All the biographical accounts say is "he retired in 1948, and died in 1981." Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 13:35, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Does the "Thesis thesis" meet the conditions of WP:SCHOLARSHIP? Nikkimaria (talk) 18:34, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

• removed/replaced where possible. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 13:35, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Comments

• The military service headings are quite long. Perhaps just "Military career", "World War II", and "Postwar period"?
  • done with two headings. Will break into three if necessary. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• Lead: "A graduate of the class of 1911 from the United States Military Academy at West Point,...": this phrasing doesn't flow well to me, I suggest it read "A graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point,..."
  • Done Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• Lead: "and returned to train artillery students" Returned where?
  • Done Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• If keeping the mention of Lee in the lead, I think you need to mention what the charges were
  • Done Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• Everything in the lead should be a summary of the article (which should be fully cited) so you shouldn't have cites in the lead
  • Removed Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• Infobox: this lists several decorations, including foreign ones, but none are mentioned in the text
  • Added mention. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• I think you need to specifically mention early on that the WWI promotions were temporary and he returned to his substantive rank afterwards
  • Done Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• As a style thing, I find the use of exact dates quite jarring; generally it is OK to just say January 1918
  • Done Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• Dates of embarkation for France? Perhaps mention the St. Dié sector is on (presumably) the Western Front
  • Done Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• Several links to postings include the state; these should probably mention the post only e.g. "Wyche served from 17 September 1911 to 13 February 1912 at Fort Mason in California, before..."
  • Done Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• "...before returning to help train..." : again, returning where?
  • Done Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• "He took command of a regiment...": what kind of regiment? infantry, artillery?
  • added Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• "After the conclusion of World War I, he reverted to Captain,.." the placement of this sentence is odd since the war ended while he was still in his previous assignment.
  • Fixed Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• There is probably a bit of scope for expansion of the WWII section in terms of the 79th Division; founding (assuming he was the first commander), date of appointment, training etc... the lead mentions Normandy landings, but the article mentions Cherbourg which isn't quite the same. Also the chronology of the narrative could be improved; it is jarring to read that he was in command until 20 May 1945 before mentioning the division's engagements. I would also provide some context for working closely with the generals mentioned; were Patton/Bradley his army commanders? In what capacity did he work closely with Winston Churchill?
  • Will get around to it soon. There's a certain amount of stuff that cannot be sourced because further information simply does not exist. For example I really cannot find how he worked closely with Churchill, besides the fact that he did. I'l look further into it. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• "released a G-2 Report": context required, what is a G-2 report?
  • Linked Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• "daily inspections of the camp.": what camp?
  • clarified Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• "After that,...": non-encyclopaedic
  • changed Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• I don't think you use the article "the" when referring to corps
  • Removed Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
• There may be a bit of discussion about the Dates of Rank section. I have seen some vigorous debate over the use of rank insignia with some considering them unencyclopaedic (and I agree TBH). To avoid this, I would suggest working the dates of promotion into the text.
  • Done Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 13:44, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Hope these comments help with improving the article. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 08:34, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

• • Zawed: Thank you very much for your comments. once I resolve those other comments, do you think I can go ahead with an A-class nom or should I wait? Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
    • Your changes are definitely an improvement. One thing to keep in mind is that for A-Class, you can expect a bit of scrutiny on your sourcing. I am still uncomfortable with the mention of Wyche closely working with Churchill; it strikes me as unlikely for any divisional commander to work closely with the British prime minister. He may have met him on inspections and such like but that won't be the same as "worked closely". Churchill and the generals are all the subject of various biographies - I would expect Wyche to be mentioned in at least some of these if he did work closely with one or more of them. I note that this "worked closely" aspect is sourced to the Military Hall of Honor website; I suspect it won't be a reliable source as it seems anyone can edit it. You may need to find alternative sources for anything cited to the website. I notice Prefer and MacDonald are listed as references but not cited. Zawed (talk) 09:23, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

• Removed Military Hall of Honor source. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 12:11, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
• zawed: I guess the working together claim was based on the fact that things like this, and this exist, but, I agree that its not enough to substantiate the claim. Unfortunately, in replacing the MHOH source, I had to remove all awards he received, as they are not sourced anywhere else I can find, but it is what it is. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 12:23, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Comments Just a few from me:

• which one is he in the infobox pic? Add a caption.
  • Done
• you don't need the bullets for the awards in the infobox
  • changed
• in the lead, I would say he served on the Western Front rather than a specific locality
  • changed
• in the lead, mention any commands he had before division, regiment and brigade for example, and that he was an artillery officer, if that is right?
• in the lead, "Officer Interview Board, and command"
  • done
• this might be an Americanism, but usually I would say "He graduated on 13 June 1911"
  • changed
• did he graduate into the artillery branch?
• 30th Infantry what? Division or Regiment?, if division, do we know what regiment?
  • Division, I think? Cullum is the most specific, and he only says Infantry.
• the Military career section is a bit sparse on units he served in, and is mainly a list of barracks which doesn't tell us much.
  • again, Cullum is really the only source of information
• what was a gunner doing at the cav school?
  • actually mounted service school, but still doesn't really make sense to anyone, myself included. It does appear that the school was at some point actually called the "School of Application for Cavalry and Field Artillery" and had a close relationship with artillery training
• he joined the Texas Border Patrol while he was serving the the Army? That seems a little weird, perhaps he was seconded?
  • clarified, removed texas border patrol, that was from a non RS source that I very recently removed
• unless a rank is being used in front of a name, it should be in all lower case ie captain and (later) major general
  • done
• link AEF
  • done
• suggest "to the temporary rank of major then lieutenant colonel"
  • done
• what formation was he with on the Western Front, and what battles did it fight in while he was there?
  • he was barely there (for about a month)
• when did he return to the US, before or after WWI ended?
  • he was barely there (for about a month)
• did he receive any awards for his WWI service?
  • he was barely there (for about a month), so I as far as I know, no.
• do we know the title of the artillery regiment he commanded at Camp Jackson?
• drop the comma from "Forts Leavenworth, and Riley"
  • Done
• link United States Army Command and General Staff College
  • Done
• link United States Army War College
  • Done
• mention that the 79th ID was part of XV Corps when first mentioned (assuming this was the case)
  • Done
• the combat-related WWII bits seem sparse, no mention of training for D-Day, D-Day itself, or any other battles?
• mention what Operation Flashpoint was
• drop the comma from "sent one officer, and one"
  • Done
• "caused the 44th and 100th Infantry Division Divisions"
  • Done
• were the corps commands both in Germany as part of the occupation?
• when did he return to the US?
• what and where was the 1st Service Command?
• who or what was Ruark?
  • Added
• what rank was John C. H. Lee? and link
  • Added
• what makes valor.militarytimes.com a reliable source?
  • It's a listing of his awards. See here.

That's me done. Nice work so far! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:30, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

• • I'll get back to the rest tomorrow. Thank you so much! Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 01:14, 3 October 2018 (UTC)