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Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2015 November 28

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November 28

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Template:Betty Who

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:09, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Musician template for artist with an article for one album. A navbox is unnecessary since linking back and forth between the two articles is already easy. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 20:45, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Scottish dogs

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was relist to Dec 17. There is plenty of back-and-forth with the Irish template, and now that it's been closed the discussion about the UK templates can proceed. Primefac (talk) 03:08, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Template:Welsh dogs with Template:English dogs.
I propose changing the name of Template:English dogs to Template:British Isles dogs and merging Template:Welsh dogs, Template:Scottish dogs and Template:Irish dogs into it, in a similar manner to Template:Horse breeds of the British Isles. The histories of these countries and their dogs are intertwined, many of the breeds covered are shown in two or more of these templates and it will allow the separation of the Scottish, Welsh & Irish dogs into categories by role / type. Cavalryman V31 (talk) 10:33, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I have undone the merger until this discussion reaches a consensus (either on the merger or final name).
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 19:19, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Irish dogs

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was no consensus. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 02:59, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Template:Irish dogs with Template:English dogs.
I propose changing the name of Template:English dogs to Template:British Isles dogs and merging Template:Welsh dogs, Template:Scottish dogs and Template:Irish dogs into it, in a similar manner to Template:Horse breeds of the British Isles. The histories of these countries and their dogs are intertwined, many of the breeds covered are shown in two or more of these templates and it will allow the separation of the Scottish, Welsh & Irish dogs into categories by role / type. Cavalryman V31 (talk) 10:33, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I have undone the merger until this discussion reaches a consensus, particularly with regard to what name it would be given if the Irish dogs were added in.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 19:19, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes I respect that position. Where does one stop? All of Europe? The difference from your analogy is Ireland was a part of the United Kingdom until the Republic of Ireland gained independence in 1922 and the (at that stage not so-named) Common Travel Area agreement came into force the following year. The Scandanavian countries date back millenia with the various trade and border restrictions associated with that. Whilst politically Ireland's inclusion in the UK was not a happy marriage, for animal husbandry it was, especially for dogs which traditionally often travelled with their masters, particularly with sportsmen who were usually accompanied by their gundogs and hounds, drovers who travelled broadly with their herding dogs, and Gypsies whose traditional dogs include lurchers and terriers. Locals no doubt took advantage of the services of talented visiting dogs crossed to local stock of similar function, whilst travellers would no doubt would have (they certainly still do today) purchased pups from local dog types they saw and admired. The commonality between the dog breeds from across the British Isles is testimony to this, with regional variations upon a common developmental thread. The only dog breeds within the combined template developed post Irish independence are the Patterdale Terrier, Plummer Terrier and the Northern Inuit dog. I do however believe a template not including Ireland should not be called Template:United Kingdom dogs because that would assume Northern Ireland is included, whereas the dogs included in the Irish template are not of the Republic, but instead the "island of Ireland" (excuse the pun). Kind regards, Cavalryman V31 (talk) 12:01, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • In addition to those reasons stated above, the uniqueness of dogs from the British Isles can be attributed to several other reasons. The wolf was extirpated from Great Britain in 1684 and Ireland in 1786, this contributed both to the sporting and pastoral types. The largest predatory threats to sheep farming across the British Isles became the fox and badger, leading to the development of what I consider the most unique and greatest British and Irish contribution to the dog world, the terrier. Other European countries produced earth dogs, the dachshunds are an example, but on the Britain Isles it was an art form. If you review Template:Terriers you will see almost all are from one of these four countries, or were bred directly from them. Pastoral dogs in continental Europe, indeed almost all of the Old World, are livestock guardian dogs. Even in the continental herding type dogs (German Shepherd, Beauceron, Bohemian Shepherd, Belgian Shepherds etc) defence against wolf attack was an element of their duties. This was not required on the British Isles, leading to the development of the various purely herding collie types. Unlike in continental Europe which still retains some large forests, the clearing of forests on Britain and Ireland at the end of the 17th century led to a decline in stag numbers and consequently a decline in the popularity of stag hunting with hounds. Those mounted sportsmen turned to fox hunting as a favorite pastime, and the fox was not a noble beast, anyone who could afford a horse (the emerging middle class) could follow a hunt. The larger packhounds of Europe are largely bred to hunt the stag, wolf and boar (extirpated from the British Isles in the middle ages), whilst the English Foxhound, the modern Kerry Beagle and the Welsh Hound are all bred to hunt the fox. The development of gun dogs in the British Isles is also unique to that of the rest of Europe, a product of the unique shooting habits of the sportsmen of Great Britain and Ireland. Unlike continental pointing breeds which are all versatile breeds (that point, retrieve and flush), the British and Irish breeds (Pointer and setters) are singly pointers. The flushing dogs (spaniels) and retrievers are similarly unique, with almost all breeds either from the British Isles or bred descended from them. It is for these reasons and those already stated that I advocate the unification of these templates.Cavalryman V31 (talk) 12:05, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:History of the Serbian language

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:03, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I am the creator. The template is largely unused, and fails to adequately group History of the Serbian language articles (of which there are not many). The parent article, Serbian language, is more than appropriate for that information. Also, in the future, a template for the Serbo-Croatian language would be more appropriate. Zoupan 00:53, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
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