Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Battle of Sourton Down
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Article promoted by Hawkeye7 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 00:20, 28 December 2019 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list
Battle of Sourton Down[edit]
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The Battle of Sourton Down was a well-executed ambush by a small Parliamentarian force on a much larger Royalist one. It was another loss for Ralph Hopton, but one of his finest victories was to follow not too long after. The location of this battle is now a service station just off the A30, the main road in south-west England; one that I have stopped at many, many times, which was part of what caught my fancy about the battle. All comments gratefully received. Harrias talk 13:54, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
Image review
- Don't use fixed px size. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:27, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
Source review—pass[edit]
- I'm a bit confused by the infobox citation to Hopton. In the text the same force information is cited to Barratt. Is the same information in both sources? If so, I would suggest citing Barratt.
- Thanks Buidhe; I've finally addressed this. The information is mixed between both sources, and I've updated the referencing in the main body to reflect that. As the information is provided and cited in the body, I have removed the references from the infobox completely. Harrias talk 09:38, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
- Other than that, primary sources are used appropriately.
- Other sources look OK.
- No source checks done because nominator has a history of successful A-class nominations. buidhe 16:58, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
Support from Gog the Mild[edit]
I have made a couple of copy edits, which you will want to check.
- I am not sure that "running" is encyclopedic. Although I struggle to suggest a better word.
- Optional: "as a Member of Parliament in the Long Parliament" Parliament twice in five w=words jars a little. Perhaps 'as a Member of the Long Parliament'?
- "From there Hopton and Hertford split up" Does this need the "From"?
- "Hertford took the infantry to Wales, while Hopton sailed with the dragoons" ... the infantry ... the dragoons ... This is the first mention of either. Could we have an introduction? (Had they come from York? Been recruited locally?)
- Yes, good; that works.
- " Although Hopton typically fancied himself" "typically"?
- "the King shared the command;" → 'the King divided the command'. I honestly read that as the King being the co-commander.(!!) I also think that the semi colon should be a colon, with the subsequent commands separated by semi colons.
- Optional: "Hopton had removed the last Parliamentarian foothold in Cornwall" → 'Hopton had taken the last Parliamentarian outpost in Cornwall'.
- "but the city was too strong, and Hopton's Cornish forces refused to cross the River Tamar" I submit that we don't know if "the city was too strong". The sentence also seems a little contradictory. Did the Cornishmen refuse to cross the river because (they believed) the city to be too strong? Or for some other reason? If the latter, then why mention the strength of the city? And if it is mentioned, it should, IMO, be its perceived strength.
- Good. Thanks.
- "A truce was put in place in March" I don't know what your source says, but that suggests that it was imposed by an external authority. 'A truce was agreed in March'?
- "no real initial attempt to chase Chudleigh's force" "chase" → 'pursue'?
- "News of the disarray reached the Royalists" You haven't previously mentioned any disarray, simply said that the army split up.
- How about 'Reports of Parliamentarian disarray reached ... '?
- Weeell. OK.
- How about 'Reports of Parliamentarian disarray reached ... '?
- "where he found a valley backed by hills sufficient to avoid his army being silhouetted against the horizon" I had to think about what you meant by this. Perhaps "sufficient" → 'high enough'. Or just 'where he found a valley situated such that his army would not be silhouetted against the horizon' or similar?
- "the Lord Mohun" "the"?
- Per Forms of address in the United Kingdom#Peers, peeresses and non-peerage. Harrias talk 14:20, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
- I am not sure that "spooked" is encyclopedic. Although it does seem appropriate.
- OK. Probably just me.
- "Chudleigh avoided engaging the encamped position" I am not sure that I would describe the position as "encamped".
- "he awaited reinforcements from his infantry in Okehampton" Just checking that this is correct and that you don't mean 'he awaited the reinforcement of his infantry from Okehampton'?
- "much intelligence about the scale of the enemy they had faced" To my eye doesn't quite work. You may disagree. Perhaps 'much intelligence about the size of the enemy force they had faced'?
- "and the cover of darkness" Is "cover of" necessary?
- "With that in mind, along with their losses, they opted to hold their position until daybreak, when they retreated first to Bridestowe, a village about two miles (3.2 km) south-west of Sourton Down, and then later that day back to Launceston" An over ambitious sentence. Break it up perhaps?
- Looks fine to me.
- "The routed Royalists had left behind" Suggest deleting "had".
- "and managed to round up some of the deserters during his return" "the deserters"?
- Yes. Better.
- "securing Royalist control of Cornwall" doesn't really work in the context of the sentence and is chronologically odd, coming before the earlier "decimating the Parliamentarians' army"> Suggest rewriting, possibly as two sentences.
- "subsequently able to push up into Somerset" Delete "up".
- "The Parliamentarians had emphasised their victory" Suggest deleting "had".
- Footnote: "were outnumbered by more than two-to-one" Delete "by".
- Part of the lead reads "The defeat was humiliating for Hopton." I don't doubt it, but this doesn't seem to be mentioned in the main article.
That's all from me. Mostly minor niggles or optional suggestions. A fine article: a reader can feel the confusion and panic. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:13, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:15, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Gog the Mild: I've finally mopped up the outstanding points, and am looking forward to the "more" which follows. Harrias talk 09:55, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
- Some responses to your responses above. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:00, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
- Nice work, as always. One entirely optional and very minor suggestion above. A cracking article. Happy to support. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:50, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
CommentsSupport by CPA-5[edit]
- Battle of Sourton Down was a successful Parliamentarian ambush --> "The Battle of Sourton Down was a successful Parliamentarian ambush"
- Parliamentarian commander, Major General James Chudleigh No hyphen here in the rank? Because some sources include the rank with a hyphen.
- Link Oxford.
- Link Cornish.
- Link oxen.
- and he appointed Chudleigh as his deputy soon after.[9][8] Re-order the refs here.
- the ruin of the whole Kingdom".[12][11] Same as above.
- musketeers, and used their cannons to attack them --> "musketeers, and used their cannon to attack them" Dictionaries say the plural word of cannon is manly without s.
- Maybe change the "c" in the infobox with a circa template?
That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 12:11, 28 November 2019 (UTC)