Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/John Gildroy Grant

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Parsecboy (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 21:20, 10 June 2019 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

John Gildroy Grant[edit]

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Nominator(s): Zawed (talk)

John Gildroy Grant (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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Next up in the series I've been working on for New Zealand Victoria Cross recipients of the First World War is John Grant, who earned his VC at the Second Battle of Bapaume. His postwar life was somewhat tragic in that he appears to have suffered a form of PTSD that affected his personal circumstances. The article went through a GA review back in July 2018, and I've done a little tidying up since. I look forward to the feedback of reviewers and, all going well, seeing this article be promoted to A-Class. Zawed (talk) 08:25, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • File:Lt_John_Grant.jpg: when/where was this first published? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:19, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • It was published in 1921 as an illustration in this book. It may have also been published in 1919 in a newspaper although it is a bit grainy so can't say with 100% certainty (although I suspect it is the same image). I have added a 1923-abroad tag. Zawed (talk) 02:44, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments: G'day, Zawed, I have the following comments/suggestions: AustralianRupert (talk) 08:46, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • in the lead, Discharged from the NZEF, he returned to civilian life: suggest mentioning part time military service here, also to summarise the article
  • do we know where Grant undertook his schooling?
  • After a bit of hunting, I found a historic news item that mentioned this. Zawed (talk) 08:12, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • do we know where Grant undertook initial training?
  • No, I would say most likely Featherston but don't have a firm secondary source for that. Zawed (talk) 08:12, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • No worries. It might be possible to confirm through his service record, and it would be okay to cite it in my opinion for that simple fact. Only a minor detail, though. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 23:22, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • It duly embarked for the Western Front: do we have a date for this?
  • It fortunately missed: probably best to avoid words like "fortunately" as it can be perceived to promote a point of view
  • suggest linking platoon, company and officer
  • He was wounded in November: suggest "early November", also do we know which battle this was in?
  • Have done, don't know the engagement in which he was wounded. Probably mopping after Le Quesnoy but again don't have an explicit source for this. Zawed (talk) 08:12, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • attention of the authorities but on investigation...: does this imply that they did not do anything to assist because of the finding? If not, I suggest maybe tweaking the wording slightly. Maybe it might be best to just split the sentence, as such: "attention of the authorities. On investigation..."
*Have done. Zawed (talk) 08:12, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • These were James Crichton, a private at the time, Reginald Judson, and Harry Laurent, both second lieutenants --> " These were James Crichton, a private at the time, and Reginald Judson and Harry Laurent, both second lieutenants": parallel list items
  • Done.
  • did he marry and have children? Some web searches seem to indicate this, e.g. [1][2]
  • Have added this. I searched for a historic news item for his wedding but wasn't able to find one. @AustralianRupert:, thanks for the feedback, I have responded to your various points as above. And thanks to CPA-5 for the ping. Zawed (talk) 08:12, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Zawed: Hey mate just let you know that AR's comments are here already a month. Just a little reminder. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 13:39, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CommentSupport by CPA-5[edit]

  • "1915–29" --> "1915–1929"
  • in October 1915 with the 7th Reinforcements Is there a link of the 7th Reinforcements?
  • No; these were groups of reinforcements for the NZEF rather than distinct units. Once they arrived in the Middle East they would have split up to join the various units in the field so each group, such as the 7th Reinforcements, really only existed from training in NZ through to arrival. Zawed (talk) 06:13, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • He joined the 1st Battalion Same as above?
  • No and it is more likely that there would a regimental article than a battalion one. Zawed (talk) 08:12, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • evacuation from the Gallipoli Peninsula Link Gallipoli Peninsula.
  • his return on 29 October 1919 and he was Remove 1919.
  • Done.

That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 13:39, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@CPA-5:, thanks for the comments and the ping above for AR's feedback. I have responded as above. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 08:12, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • No worries Zawed I was just wondering or you forgot this nomination or not. Anyway here is my support. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 15:55, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by PM[edit]

This article is in fine shape. I have a few comments:

  • I would add to the lead a summary of what he did for the VC
  • link PTSD in the lead
  • add Category:New Zealand people of Scottish descent
  • is there anything that can be added to the battles he participated in? Such as whether they were successful or not, and the number of casualties suffered by his battalion in each one?
  • suggest hyphenating posttraumatic stress disorder
  • suggest stating that Laurent was also from Hawera when he is first mentioned, then trim the second mention as we will already know he was from Hawera and a VC recipient
  • Done, but perhaps a bit clumsily worded you think? Zawed (talk) 09:17, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • That looks better, thanks. I have just one more action item to deal with RE battles his battalion was involved with. That may take a few days; I've just moved house and just about everything is in storage while we hunt out our next place. I will be using the library as my main resource for the timebeing rather than my own books. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 23:44, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • suggest "is alternately displayed"
  • I reckon you could integrate mention of Hill into the narrative rather than a note

That's all I have. Nice work on this. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:11, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

  • Standardize use of title case or not in citations and references.
  • Suggest adding "|lastauthoramp=y" to the cite book templates to make them match the use ampersands in the citations.
  • References used are high-quality and reliable.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 02:26, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Zawed:--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 16:04, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for looking at the sources, I have actioned your suggestions. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 23:45, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments & support by Pendright[edit]

Greetings Zawed - I have the following commnets/questions. Pendright (talk) 06:42, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lede:

  • ... and from 1916 served on the Western Front.
From 1916 to when?
  • Discharged from the NZEF, he returned to civilian life but also joined the Territorial Force.
  • ... but also <> consider "and then" instead.
  • Streets in Hawera are named for both Grant and Laurent, in recognition of their VCs. In September 2018, statues of Grant and Laurent were unveiled at Hawera's Victoria Cross garden.
Consider adding some of this to the lede.
  • My preference is not to for sake of consistency with a number of other New Zealand VC articles I have put through an A-Class review. If you insist, though, I will. Zawed (talk) 07:38, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Okay! Pendright (talk) 00:16, 9 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Early life:

  • the New Zealand Expeditionary Force (NZEF)
Only the abbeviation seem to be necessary here?
  • My style is treat the lead as being distinct from the body of the article. Since the full term is used more than once in both lead and and body, I abbreviate on second and subsequent mentions in both. The same thinking applies to wikilinks used in lead and body. Zawed (talk) 07:38, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Okay! Pendright (talk) 00:16, 9 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

First World War:

  • It duly embarked for the Western Front in March 1916.
While the word duly is correctly used, it may not be, at first glance, widely understood in the context in which it is used.
The Oxford Dictionaries describe duly this way:
"In accordance with what is required or appropriate; following proper procedure or arrangement."
  • Contained in the VC citation: ... Serjeant in command ...
Consider linking serjeant to Sergeant, which will explain this old English spelling (still in use) to the reader.
The MOS says this: Quotations must be verifiably attributed, and the wording of the quoted text should be faithfully reproduced. This is referred to as the principle of minimal change. Where there is good reason to change the wording, enclose changes within square brackets (for example replacing pronouns with nouns that aren't identified in the quote: "Ocyrhoe told [her father] his fate" instead of "Ocyrhoe told him his fate"). If there is a significant error in the original statement, use [sic] or the template [sic] (produces a note like [sic] ) to show that the error was not made by Wikipedia. However, trivial spelling and typographic errors should simply be corrected without comment (for example, correct basicly to basically and harasssment to harassment), unless the slip is contextually important.
  • That is a good point, I have done as suggested and linked Serjeant. I will check a few other articles that I have worked on since I think I may need to do the same for them. Zawed (talk) 07:38, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Later life:

  • Undiagnosed at the time, it is thought that Grant suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder.
Consider Inserting "could have" between Grant and suffered.

Medals:

  • On 2 December 2007
consider a comma after 2007, an introductory phrase.

Done - Pendright (talk) 07:00, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Pendright, thank you for taking the time to review this article. I have responded as above. Thanks, Zawed (talk) 07:38, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Supporting - Pendright (talk) 00:16, 9 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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