Wikipedia talk:WikiProject London/Public art/Archive 1

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Archive 1

New articles

moved from Ham's talk page

Thanks for moving the Captain James Cook sculpture article so that its naming is consistent with other works of art. I did notice, though, that the artwork infobox forces italics, which makes it look like "Statue of Captain James Cook, The Mall" is the name of the sculpture. Also, I made a list of some other works I saw during my recent trip to London:

Done

Any assistance confirming the most appropriate titles, or even creating short articles for these works, would be very, very much appreciated. Thanks for your consideration. ----Another Believer (Talk) 16:02, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

@Another Believer: I've responded to the individual suggestions above. There should be a template somewhere that turns italic titles off; I'll look into it. Thanks for your contributions, past and future! Ham (talk) 17:25, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for your feedback and suggestions. Some of them are a bit difficult because the names on the sculptures themselves do not match the individual's name at Wikipedia, or the naming conventions are unfamiliar to me... Hopefully I can get stubs for each of them up soon and others who are more familiar with the naming conventions can make improvements. ----Another Believer (Talk) 01:01, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

--Another Believer (Talk) 16:38, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

I am having trouble finding reliable sources. I do see that multiple WMF projects/files use Angel's Wings as the name. I wonder why. ----Another Believer (Talk) 03:36, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
  • The Guardian: "Vents for a substation cooling system at Paternoster Square, London…"
  • The Guardian: "One of Heatherwick's 'sculptural thingummies for public plazas': Vents (2000) in Paternoster Square…"
  • PaternosterSquare.info: "Vents / Paternoster Lane / Thomas Heatherwick (b. 1970) / 2002, stainless steel"
  • Londonist: Vents, Paternoster Square (2002)
Based on these sources, I might suggest we go with Vents (sculpture). ----Another Believer (Talk) 03:36, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
@Another Believer: I'd prefer Paternoster Vents as that's a less boring title, and it's supported by Heatherwick's own website. Ham (talk) 08:28, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
OK. I don't feel too strongly about either, but I thought we usually went with commons names. I changed the front page to display "Paternoster Vents". Thanks! ----Another Believer (Talk) 14:40, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

More from Whitehall / Victoria Embankment Gardens:

@Another Believer: Would it be all right to archive this discussion (and others which are more recent)? We can track the progress on the backlog from the main project page and if any further queries come up about naming there could be new, dedicated sections for those. Ham II (talk) 14:20, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Sure, no problem. I made sure all of the agreed upon titles above appear on the project page for future creation. Thanks for asking! ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:55, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Barnstar

The Teamwork Barnstar
I just want to ping @Ham, Pigsonthewing, JMiall, AnonNep, and Theramin: and thank each of you for rolling up your sleeves and improving Wikipedia by creating and improving articles about public art in London. (And Ham, you have been so patient with my many questions.) It has been a while since I've worked collaboratively to crank out so many entries in such a short period of time. I loved visiting London and I am so happy to see articles being created about many of the sculptures and monuments I saw during my visit (and I am learning a lot, too!).
Really, much appreciated, and let's keep on truckin'! ----Another Believer (Talk) 15:06, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
Thank you! Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:10, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
Thank you! :) AnonNep (talk) 15:49, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks from me too. JMiall₰ 20:54, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, and there's a mark of my gratitude to you on your talk page. Ham (talk) 06:51, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Equestrian statue of the Duke of Wellington, Royal Exchange

Resolved

I am confused about this one. Is there a copy of this statue at the Royal Exchange in London and another in Glasgow's Royal Exchange Square? Two sculptures, both of Wellington and both at Royal Exchange? Please see the two sources I used to create this short article, plus more below. ----Another Believer (Talk) 04:33, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

--Another Believer (Talk) 04:37, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

  • Looks like there's two. The other one has a page at Wellington Statue, Glasgow which talks about the traffic cone issue. AnonNep (talk) 08:21, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
    • Added some info (some of which is mentioned in the plinth plaque) and additional sources to article. This one (last line of 4th paragraph) mentions the 'equestrian statue' in Glasgow was 'inaugurated' later the same year. AnonNep (talk) 09:33, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
      • Thank you for expanding the article. I had to stop once I became a bit too confused. So, is "Equestrian statue of the Duke of Wellington, Royal Exchange" the best title of the article, considering there are TWO sculptures of the Duke of Wellington, both located in areas called Royal Exchange. Seems London and Glasgow should be used as disambiguators. ----Another Believer (Talk) 14:39, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

To add to the confusion, we now have Equestrian Statue of the Duke of Wellington and Equestrian statue of the Duke of Wellington, Hyde Park Corner. The former has better content, but I think the latter is named more appropriately. If the latter article should just be deleted/redirected, that is fine. Sorry! ----Another Believer (Talk) 15:05, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Resolved

--Another Believer (Talk) 18:38, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Talk page templates

I'm not sure what the best practice is for adding templates to the talk pages. I notice that {{WikiProject Visual arts}} and {{WikiProject Sculpture}} are often being added to the new pages being created, in addition to {{WikiProject London}} and {{WikiProject Public Art}}, which to me seems excessive, especially as Sculpture is an inactive project. I would think that public art comes under visual arts, making the latter redundant, and that inactive projects shouldn't be added. What do other people think? Ham (talk) 10:27, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

I agree. {{WikiProject London}} and {{WikiProject Public Art}} should suffice. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:18, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
I'd copy/pasted off the talk page of another project page with the four article Talk pages I created. I've gone back and trimmed it to the two templates. Will keep an eye out for others. AnonNep (talk) 13:50, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
Sounds good. Sorry, I tend to add more related WikiProjects than are probably necessary. ----Another Believer (Talk) 14:48, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

SW london book

does anyone already have a copy of this book - 'Public Sculpture of Outer South and West London', Fran Lloyd and Davina Thackara from the Liverpool University Press Public Sculpture series? JMiall₰ 20:58, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't. Sorry. Ham (talk) 06:47, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Others in the series are available online, via Google Books; so that one might be, too. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:19, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Congrats!

Hi all, this is just a note to say congrats on starting this new task force! I'm so glad you're working on the public art in London! --RichardMcCoy (talk) 11:41, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, Richard! Needless to say, you are more than welcome to contribute! ----Another Believer (Talk) 14:36, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Article name query

I've created Statue of George III, Somerset House using the name off the Project page but this is a sculptural group formally known as George III and the River Thames (the artist's name for it), and has a second statue as part of it. The second is described as Neptune, or more often Father Thames, in sources. The article List of public art in the City of Westminster calls it 'George III and Father Thames'. Could those who've been working on names have a look? (I won't wikilink it at the List page or sculptor page until we're agreed on the title). AnonNep (talk) 14:02, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm not averse to George III and the River Thames, but I prefer "Statue of George III, Somerset House" as the article title (I'm happy for both to stay in the lede). I don't think the ODNB's use of the former necessarily points to it being "the artist's name for it", rather than just a choice made by the author of that entry. Unless there is evidence for this? Ward-Jackson has George III and the NHLE has "Statue of George III in Somerset House Quadrangle", and both sources follow the same pattern same for the statue of Queen Anne outside St Paul's, despite that also being a composition of more than one figure. Ham (talk) 18:34, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Quadrangle or courtyard, could be added but I didn't think where it was as possibly as confusing as what it was (more than one statue). As a late 1700s work, before many newspapers (I did try some 18th century databases with no luck) there's not a lot to say of it. I assumed George III and the River Thames was the artist's, or at least formally accepted title, as its used by ODNB and two more academic links, and its the more archaic name (with 'River Thames', represented by a figure, later known as Father Thames or Neptune). Wikipedia has the category 'George III, Somerset House, London' but photos titled 'George III and Neptune' and 'George III and Father Thames' while other sites use 'George III and the River God'. Overall, I'm not fussed, and as it has a messy, unclear, history, staying with the present title may be the best! AnonNep (talk) 19:07, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Statue of Winston Churchill, Palace of Westminster and blue plaques

Hullo! I've just found out about your brilliant efforts on the day I created an article on Churchill in Parliament. Does it qualify as public art though? I've also worked on the London EH blue plaque list, and am working on the lists for Kensington and Chelsea and the City of Westminster. Can the plaques be included in the infobox as a subsection of memorials? Gareth E Kegg (talk) 14:39, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Welcome, Gareth. I hope you'll stick around and create more articles about London's public art (see the front page and above for a list of needed articles!). I will let someone else address your questions, but I thought I would send a quick welcome note and also let you know that I added the Churchill statue in Parliament Square as a 'see also' link in the article you created. ----Another Believer (Talk) 14:46, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
@Gareth E Kegg: The blue plaques now take their place very nicely in the navbox, amongst the memorials! Statues inside the Houses of Parliament are stretching the definition of public art a bit, but I've included the Churchill statue in the "See also" section at List of public art in the City of Westminster. I'll do the same with the City of Westminster list of blue plaques when it's created. Ham (talk) 19:44, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
@Ham: Thank you, K+C list now created (is the title too long?) and Camden already done Gareth E Kegg (talk) 11:38, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
@Gareth E Kegg: I'd suggest leaving the "Royal Borough" out of the title; cf. List of people from Kensington and Chelsea, List of public art in Kensington and Chelsea, List of schools in Kensington and Chelsea, and leaving "London Borough" out of the Camden list for the same reason. Ham (talk) 10:39, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
@Gareth E Kegg: Nice work. Please consider adding a coordinates column, and making each row a template. Let me know if you need help with that. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:33, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Andy, I've only just noticed your amazing template table row. Is there a quick way to get coordinates/transpose all those zillions of plaques into it? Gareth E Kegg (talk) 17:13, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
You can get some of the coordinates from the OpenPlaques website; it has an open licence (though some of its images don't). Others may be in OpenStreetMap, but you need to know the approx location to start with. Converting from in-line markup to templates is mostly a copy-n-paste job; if there are a large number, you might get someone at WP:BOTREQ to help you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:44, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Good Article nomination: Knife Edge Two Piece 1962–65

Resolved

The article Knife Edge Two Piece 1962–65 has just become a candidate for Good Article status. If you're not one of the main contributors please consider reviewing the page here. Ham (talk) 08:22, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

V&A Chandelier by Dale Chihuly

Project members might be interested in giving feedback at this discussion regarding the Chihuly piece at V&A. ----Another Believer (Talk) 23:28, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

Resolved

Moved to V&A Rotunda Chandelier. ---Another Believer (Talk) 21:31, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

File:UK-2014-London-Monument to the Women of World War II (1).jpg

Resolved

Should this be added to the Recognized content section? ---Another Believer (Talk)

Well spotted‍—‌it definitely should! I'm going to add the Quality images on Commons too. Ham (talk) 07:54, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
Fantastic. I was not sure if content recognized at other Wikimedia projects could be included, or if the galleries were meant for English Wikipedia content only. ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:25, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
The updated gallery looks great! ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:28, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Statue of James II, Trafalgar Square

Resolved

Thank you to all who have contributed to this article. I wonder if it might meet GA criteria? ---Another Believer (Talk) 21:34, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

@Another Believer and Prioryman: I like the idea of submitting this for GA review‍—‌I'll see what more I can add from Ward-Jackson 2011. Ham (talk) 17:33, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
👍 Like Thanks, Ham. ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:35, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

This article has been promoted to GA status. ---Another Believer (Talk) 21:07, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

List of public art in the City of Westminster at WP:FLC

I've just submitted the City of Westminster list to Featured List Candidates; if you'd like to review it, please do so here. Ham II (talk) 20:29, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Development House

What (and by whom) is the sculpture on the side of Development House, where Wikimedia UK have their office? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:31, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

it is mentioned in the list List_of_public_art_in_Hackney, slightly better ref here. JMiall₰ 16:18, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
Although this implies it has moved to Shoreditch Park [4] so what does the sculpture currently there look like?
Aha! This one? JMiall₰ 16:45, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
I can't find anything about the sculpture online. If it helps, Development House used to be called Construction House and was full of companies relating to the construction industry. JMiall₰ 18:09, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
That's the one. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:26, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
I had a look at Hackney's website (it was down at the time of this conversation previously) without much success. The sculpture is mentioned as being a landmark feature in this document but with no further details. There's also quite a major planning application associated with Development House (which I assume hasn't been built yet) that would cover up the part of the building with the sculpture. The architects/developers do an amazing job of not mentioning it at all or including photos from any direction where it would be visible, presumably deliberately. It is shown however in outline only on an elevation. So all I can say so far is that it isn't recent. JMiall₰ 20:57, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Chiswell Street artwork

Faceted Column by Stephen Cox

Can anyone identify or add to the description of this piece? It's at 51°31′13″N 0°05′15″W / 51.520415°N 0.087497°W / 51.520415; -0.087497. I couldn't see a signature or plaque when I was there. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:12, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

It is in Islington not the City of London. Planning approval was granted in early 1999 for a stone sculpture with a cost in the region of £50k as part of the building development. No more details seem to be available from the planning portal. I have emailed the developer and architect of the building. JMiall₰ 18:05, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:26, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
The developer replied with the sculptor's name. The artist is Stephen Cox (sculptor), title 'Faceted Column', material is sandstone. JMiall₰ 17:41, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
That's great; thank you. Now we can track that down in a reliable source; maybe the artist's website, or a newspaper? I'll do some digging, after I've updated Commons and Wikidata. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:16, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
OK, you beat me to the latter! ;-) Biography stub now created. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:55, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
👍 Like By the way, I updated the WP:WikiProject London talk page with the list of works we have on the front page that are missing Wikipedia entries. I also informed Wikimedia UK of the task force on the wiki's water cooler page. If you can think of anywhere else to post the list of articles needing to be created, or to recruit participation, do share! ---Another Believer (Talk) 21:23, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Wikidata

I've been doing some sprucing up of wikidata for public art in London.

In the long run things such as the public art list articles could be part-generated from wikidata items rather than entering all the fields into wikipedia templates and tables. At present although we could put the data into wikidata there's no way to query any general wikidata entry from wikipedia, all that can be done is to query data from the linked wikidata entry. So what this means for now is that in an article about a statue we could get the sculptor's name from the linked wikidata entry for the statue but in a list article (or as an example on this page) we couldn't.

For now can we try to agree on a set of statements that wikidata should ideally have for each public art entity in London and if there should be different statements for different types of public art.

Things to consider (there may be guidelines on wikidata already for these that I'm unaware of?).
  • should we include location data at all scales or only at the lowest (is it worth mentioning the country or administrative area if we already have the street or square as a location?)
With the caveat that I'm not writing as an expert on Wikidata, I would prefer only to add the lowest scale. Although I suppose that sometimes a single street could be in two boroughs. Ham (talk) 13:02, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
I agree. I don't know how important it is for generating useful outputs from wikidata to have info on the larger scales but once someone has put in the info at the lowest scale it should be possible to add in fairly automatically at larger scales. JMiall₰ 17:24, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
  • should we use things like 'equestrian statue' within an 'instance of' statement or a 'genre' statement or both?
  • are we including the plinth as part of the wikidata entity or just the statue part? If we want to mention a plinth should we use 'has part' = 'plinth' or 'instance of' = 'plinth' or something else?
I don't like the idea of separate entries for plinths; it sounds like the sort of thing a user could easily not be aware of. And if it ever becomes possible to create infoboxes from Wikidata, surely it would be useful to have inscriptions on plinths and pedestals as part of the item for the main work? Ham (talk) 13:02, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
  • if a plinth is made of stone then should we have 'material'='stone' as well as whatever the statue is made of?
I don't have a problem with this; say if the materials given are "bronze" and "stone", perhaps "statue" and "plinth" could be qualifiers to those values? Ham (talk) 13:02, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
I agree but I'm not yet familiar enough with qualifiers to know if this is the best way to do it, hopefully it is. JMiall₰ 17:24, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
  • if a piece of public art is in a park with an operator then should the art have an operator statement?
  • should we use 'start date', or 'significant event' with qualifier 'date of unveiling', or 'date of foundation or creation'? What should we count as the start date?
"Significant event" sounds better to me. "Start date" could be reserved for instances where we know when the commission began‍—‌which would rule out most works. Ham (talk) 13:02, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
I agree but since writing this I've seen that d:Wikidata:WikiProject Cultural heritage exists and that most of the suggestions on the talkpage seem not to use significant event. JMiall₰ 17:24, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
  • if we have a 'depicts' statement that points to a particular person should we also have a 'depicts' statement with value 'man' or 'woman'? Or if we have already said that something is an equestrian statue should we have a 'depicts' = 'horse' or 'equestrianism' statement?
  • if a piece of public art is in a square should we use 'street' = x or 'located in' = x?
  • should we use 'heritage status'='grade ii listed building' or 'instance of'='grade ii listed building' or both?
Again, I'm not conversant with the theory behind databases (as it were), but wouldn't "heritage status" be better because it's more specific? Ham (talk) 13:02, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
I also like heritage status better. If they are completely equivalent and both needed then one can always be filled in automatically from the other. JMiall₰ 17:24, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

A list of useful statements and possible values JMiall₰ 19:53, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Commonscats and Wikidata

I'm not sure where to ask this, but as there are a few people in this project who are knowledgeable about Wikidata I thought I'd ask here. Should Wikipedia articles (e.g. Statue of Hugh Myddelton, Islington Green) be linked to Commons categories (e.g. c:Category:Statue of Sir Hugh Myddelton, Islington Green) on Wikidata (here the item would be d:Q18342180)? Or are pages strictly to be matched with pages and categories with categories? And if matching WP articles with Commons cats is OK, would that mean that {{Commons category}} and related templates are redundant and don't need to be added to new articles? Ham (talk) 14:45, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

I may be wrong but I think the idea is that a wikidata item corresponding to some object or concept can be linked to a wikipedia article about the same thing. The wikidata item can also be linked to a commons gallery of pictures of that thing. If a pointer to a commons category is needed then a 'Commons category' statement can be used. A different wikidata item can also exist for a commons category with 'instance of' = 'Wikimedia category page' and be linked to a wikipedia page using a 'category's main topic' statement. I'm not sure why this is the approach used but it does seem to be what is happening. I suppose they could always be merged in some way at a later date. Using the commons category template here makes sense to me – it links directly to the category and can be used by someone with a helpful bot to build missing links in wikidata. JMiall₰ 16:45, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
I use commons:Template:Wikidata on Commons category pages. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:03, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
OK, I'll keep adding the Commonscat templates to the articles. It would be so much better if adding the "Commons category" statement to the Wikidata item resulted in a link appearing in the Wikipedia article, but we're clearly not there yet. Ham (talk) 19:33, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Photos

I'm currently (slowly) going through my photos of public art in London and uploading them to Commons. When I do I include them in the gallery page commons:User:Thryduulf/London sculptures. I've tried to categorise them well, but do take a look if you are looking for something. Thryduulf (talk) 09:39, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for joining us, Thryduulf! I'll keep my eyes peeled on the gallery page. Ham (talk) 12:49, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
Welcome, Thryduulf! And have no fear -- Ham is a PRO at categorizing London public art images at Commons. :) ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:19, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

A Pound of Flesh for 50p

A Pound of Flesh for 50p is a temporary sculpture, but there are plenty of references about the work. Pretty cool. Will wait a while for the exhibit to close, but this article might make a fun collaboration and would be pretty easy to promote to GA status. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:50, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

Signing onto the taskforce!

Hey all,

With thanks to Ham for giving me a heads up, I've now added myself to the task force. This is one subject area that I've been meaning to return to, so it's great to see some collaboration on the subject matter. As for myself, I have access to the British Newspaper Archives through the Wiki Library, as well as The Times archive through Hillingdon Libraries. I'm also a Londoner - so if you find a statue that you don't have a photo of to freely use, then I can always make a trip to take a photo - especially if its near Westminster as I work in that area. So if you're working on an article that could do with an expansion from those sources, just leave a message on my talk page and I'll get to it. Miyagawa (talk) 08:33, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Glad to see you here! Welcome! ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:49, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Welcome on board, Miyagawa! If you're interested in taking photos you might want to take a look at the List of public art in the City of Westminster‍—‌the Mayfair section in particular has a few gaps. Ham (talk) 10:21, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Simon Gudgeon

I've created a new biography: Simon Gudgeon. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:19, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

You made an amusing typo (or possibly Freudian slip) in the first sentence there - "specialising in large prices for public display"... Thryduulf (talk) 23:02, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Public art in Birmingham

If you fancy a trip north of Watford, feel free to help out with {{Public art in Birmingham}}. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:21, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

I've had a trawl through Georaph for things looking like public art in Birmingham and posted some possibilities on Talk:List of public art in Birmingham. I'll start adding to the list at some point but if anyone familiar with the area who can quickly identify ones that are outside the area etc that would help me. JMiall₰ 00:32, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Flanders Fields Memorial Garden – photos needed

Resolved

A new war memorial has just been opened outside the Guards Chapel in Wellington Barracks, near Buckingham Palace. This has also created a new setting for the statue of Lord Alexander of Tunis. The nearby Guards Museum doesn't have many photos on Commons, so anyone with an interest in military history might want to consider paying a visit to the area. Ham (talk) 07:28, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Gareth E. Kegg! (The pics are at c:Category:Flanders Fields Memorial Garden, London) Ham II (talk) 11:28, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
Thankee, it was quite moving. I do wish I had taken a photo of the others though. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 12:50, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

The Horses of Helios

I began working on an article for The Horses of Helios, but quickly hit a wall in terms of reliable sources accessible via online searches. I came up with the following:

Extended content
The sculpture in 2011

The Horses of Helios, also known as The Four Bronze Horses of Helios,[1] is an outdoor 1992 bronze sculpture by Rudy Weller, located in London, United Kingdom.[2] It depicts Aethon, Eos, Phlegon and Pyrois, the four hoses of Helios, Greek god of the sun.[1]

References

References

  1. ^ a b "The Horses of Helios - Haymarket/Piccadilly Circus, London, UK". Waymarking. Retrieved 3 November 2014.
  2. ^ "From the Art: The Four Horses of Helios". ThirdWay. 31 (9). Hymns Ancient & Modern: 12. November 2008. Retrieved 3 November 2014.
External links
External image
image icon Fig. 1. (pg. 84), An Ovid Reader: Selections from Seven Works (2014)

Does a project member have the ability to build on this article with book sources, or, is this subject not notable for a Wikipedia article? ---Another Believer (Talk) 04:58, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

The Three Graces
How about a combined article about the 3 Graces above as well? Or one about the whole building including its architectural sculpture? If the theatre (or even Lillywhites) is part of the same building then should it all go in one article? JMiall₰ 21:00, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
3 Graces? I am not sure I understand what you are referring to. There may be enough info for a stand alone article, but I am not sure. If there is not, perhaps a section on an article about the building would be best. ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:10, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
see List_of_architectural_sculpture_in_the_City_of_Westminster#Soho for an entry on it (it is also mentioned in one of the links you gave). It is on the same corner of the building, by the same artist, from the same date, with a similar subject, so seems quite suitable for combining in some way. JMiall₰ 00:35, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
I like JMiall's idea. (I've added a pic of the Three Graces to the right.) The best title for the article seems to be Criterion (building) (see Bradley & Pevsner 2003, p. 451 and Ward-Jackson 2011, p. 227). The building includes (and so overlaps with the existing articles on) the Criterion Restaurant, the Criterion Theatre and Lillywhites. Rudy Weller's sculptures are part of the 1989–91 extension (which in 2003 housed McKinsey & Company) and so aren't covered by any of the existing articles. Ham (talk) 12:03, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Ham, do you believe that neither work qualifies for a stand-alone article? ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:16, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

I am going ahead and being bold by creating The Horses of Helios. If we decide the content can be merged into a parent article, so be it, but at least now the content is live. ---Another Believer (Talk) 03:46, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Diana Fountain, Bushy Park

Resolved

Diana Fountain, Bushy Park was added to the front page as a good article (and I can see why given the green symbol on the article). However, I only see one GA review on the article's talk page and it shows a GA fail. Did this article pass a GA review more recently? ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:55, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Not that I can see. User:Maralia seems to have added the '|currentstatus=GA' line on the talkpage and then a bot put the symbol on the article a month later. JMiall₰ 21:04, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
I removed the good article icon and the article history template from its talk page. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:44, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Also, removing front this project's front page. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:45, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Converting pages to {{Public art header}} (et al.)

Before re-submitting List of public art in the City of Westminster at Featured list candidates I'd like to convert it to using the {{Public art header}}, {{Public art row}} and {{Public art footer}} templates. What would be the best way of doing this? I've found it much too time-consuming to do manually. I proposed a bot to convert pages here but that discussion is now archived; alternatively, is this a job for AWB? Ham (talk) 12:48, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

You could ask on the AWB talk pages. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:11, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Collaboration of the Month

What do people think about starting a Collaboration of the Month, focussing on articles which need improvement (such as Victoria Memorial, London and Royal Air Force Memorial) or even as a way of getting through the backlog of pages to be created? They could occasionally be appropriate for the month in question, e.g. war memorials in November, "Eros" in February (yes, I know it's not really of Eros) and so on. Ham (talk) 11:25, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

I'd try to pitch in when and where possible. Good idea! ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:59, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
How about a trial period of four months with the following as collaborations of the month? Thoughts?
It would be particularly useful if anyone with access to news archives (pinging Miyagawa) could contribute to these. If the project is a success we can continue beyond April. Ham (talk) 14:35, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
I really like the idea. Happy to help. Miyagawa (talk) 22:46, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
The Collaboration of the Month is now active! Please help to improve Victoria Memorial, London! Ham II (talk) 13:53, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
I've given the Memorial a quick run through on the BNA and on HighBeam. I'll carry on expanding it as I find new stuff - but there's quite a lot of articles mixed up in there about the Victoria Memorial in India. There's been some really interesting finds so far, like Winston Churchill being present and the interview with the sculptor explaining his thought process behind that positioning of the statues. Miyagawa (talk) 14:12, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Wow, great work! We may need a PALon barnstar for Miyagawa! :) I think we should remove the "Gallery" section from the article, as these are generally discouraged. Do others agree or disagree? Are there images which can be moved into the prose appropriately? ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:44, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Excellent work so far, Miyagawa! I've removed the gallery from the article but improved the gallery at Commons. I like the idea of the table currently being proposed at Talk:Victoria Memorial, London; we could re-introduce the images that way. What about a barnstar for public art in general, which we could discuss at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Public Art? Ham II (talk) 13:09, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
For the record, I just found out that there is a public art barnstar: {{PublicArtBarnstar}}. Ham II (talk) 10:40, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Well done everyone for your work on the Victoria Memorial; the article's been transformed! This month's collaboration is Shaftesbury Memorial Fountain. And please feel free to post requests for future topics here! Ham II (talk) 11:24, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

How about List of public art in Wandsworth as collaboration for May? It currently has nothing from Roehampton, Southfields, Wandsworth, Tooting, Balham etc so plenty to get stuck in to. JMiall₰ 18:32, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
@JMiall: Fine by me, though I can't promise I'll be that active this month. After proposing CotM back in December I've mostly found myself too busy this year to do the concept justice, particularly as I've been bringing List of public art in the City of Westminster up to featured status. (It'll be Today's featured list a week today, by the way!) I also want a bit of a break to catch up with some things in real life. Would you or someone else mind taking up the reins of CotM? Ham II (talk) 18:52, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
OK, well I am happy to do some work on Wandsworth if I can this month. Future months can wait for now. I'll suggest something if nobody else has in a few weeks... JMiall₰ 19:00, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

How about List of public art in Tower Hamlets for Junes's CotM? There are more works in Canary Wharf to be added and there are probably others on the Exploring East London website too. Ham II (talk) 07:37, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm happy with this. JMiall₰ 20:37, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
Works for me! I don't live in London, but I sure loved viewing the public art while I was there. I am mostly curious about the pieces that I saw in person, but I'll try to help out here whenever I have the time and interest. :) This group has done great work thus far and I hope it continues. Thanks for keeping the COTM going! ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:43, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Art+Feminism Editathon 2015

Shall we be a part of this on 7 and 8 March? We could have a weekend of concentrated editing on artworks in our backlog but also (going outside our usual remit of artworks, rather than artists) on female sculptors with works in London:

Except for Kathleen Scott, none of the already extant articles are above start-class, although some just haven't been reviewed. Ham II (talk) 18:33, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

I doubt we need a page dedicated to WP:PALon's online collaboration specifically (thought I am not opposed), but I did include a link to this discussion under the Online section at the Art+Feminism campaign page. ---Another Believer (Talk) 20:11, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Cádiz Memorial

Much thanks to User:Prioryman for working on the Cádiz Memorial article. We are discussing the article a bit here and, of course, other project members are welcome to assist with improvements. We have an ongoing collaboration of the month, but this might be another great article to try promoting to Good status in the future. ----Another Believer (Talk) 20:27, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Paolozzi book competition!

If anyone wants to be in for a chance of winning a free book on Eduardo Paolozzi (worth £45!), Apollo is running this competition until 20 February. The answer to the question is, of course, in Paolozzi's Wikipedia article. But please add to the relevant articles if you are the lucky winner! Ham II (talk) 13:46, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

By entering, and giving your email and postal addresses, you agree to be contacted by "specially selected third parties". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:06, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
Ah, OK. Lest anyone think I was shilling for Apollo or any business partners of theirs, I have nothing to do with them; I just thought it was a cool prize. Ham II (talk) 15:07, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Discussion on including indoor sculptures in Template:Public art in London

This discussion might be of interest to members of this project. Ham II (talk) 08:44, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Just an FYI: Category:Monuments to composers and Category:Statues of musicians

I stumbled upon these two categories today and was not aware of them before. Just sharing in case project members knew of related articles to tag with these categories. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:07, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Pageview stats

After a recent request, I added WikiProject Public Art/London to the list of projects to compile monthly pageview stats for. The data is the same used by http://stats.grok.se/en/ but the program is different, and includes the aggregate views from all redirects to each page. The stats are at Wikipedia:WikiProject Public Art/London/Popular pages.

The page will be updated monthly with new data. The edits aren't marked as bot edits, so they will show up in watchlists. You can view more results, request a new project be added to the list, or request a configuration change for this project using the Tool Labs tool. If you have any comments or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks! Mr.Z-man 23:39, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Category:Animal sculptures

Category:Animal sculptures was created recently. I tagged a couple London sculptures accordingly, but feel free to tag others I may have missed since I am not as familiar with the city's collection. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 00:02, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

On a related note, I see Category:Sculptures of men and Category:Sculptures of women were also created. ---Another Believer (Talk) 00:33, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Liverpool Street station

I created a stub for Great Eastern Railway World War I Memorial, but wasn't sure if stubs were also appropriate for the memorials to Henry Wilson or Charles Fryatt, which are located directly underneath the former and listed at List of public art in the City of London. Thoughts? ---Another Believer (Talk) 03:26, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

They're part of the same architectural framework as the WWI memorial, so I'm not convinced that they need separate articles. Ham II (talk) 19:58, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Separate Wikidata items might be a good idea though, as they're by different sculptors: H. T. H. van Golberdinge for Fryatt and Charles Leonard Hartwell for Wilson. Ham II (talk) 20:02, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

The Gold Smelters

I was about to start a stub for The Gold Smelters, but it turns out this piece has multiple titles: Barbican frieze (link), Bryer's Frieze (link), Gold Refiners (link), Gold Smelters (link). Any thoughts or preference? I assume some of these sources are more reliable than others, or project members may have access to additional sources to help establish a common name for this work. We may want to mention alt titles in the article's lead, once created. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:20, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

The Gold Smelters is from Ward-Jackson 2003 (see bibliography on project page), p. 4. (In an image caption on p. 5, it's Gold Smelters). The book was published under the auspices of the PMSA, so it's odd that the PMSA's website should give a different title for it (Bryer's Frieze). IMO the Public Sculpture of Britain series, of which Ward-Jackson 2003 is a part, are the authoritative studies of public art in Britain so I would go with them for titles of articles if in doubt. Ham II (talk) 19:57, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Ham II. Do you have a preference for The Gold Smelters vs. Gold Smelters. You mentioned the caption with the latter, but did you say The Gold Smelters at first because Ward-Jackson 2003 has an entry under this title, or because I mentioned it above? ---Another Believer (Talk) 21:37, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Update: I went ahead and created The Gold Smelters, which can always be moved if another title is determined to be more suitable. ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:29, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

R: World (sculpture)

I used "sculpture" as the medium (and the article's disambiguator) even though none of the three sources displayed in the article use the word "sculpture". Now I am doubting my choice. Would "artwork" be a better disambiguator, or something else? One source even described "World" as a "place", so World (Broadcasting House) or World, Broadcasting House are even options, but I think World is a work of art more than a place. ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:45, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

World (sculpture) seems fine to me. Ham II (talk) 21:59, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
OK, thanks. ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:41, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Re: Statue of Florence Nightingale, London

Ham II, you added Statue of Florence Nightingale, London to the project's main page as an article to be created. Is this for the statue next to the Crimean War Memorial? If the statue of Nightingale is independently notable of the CWM, is the statue of Sidney Herbert, too? ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:15, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

It's been on that list for a while, and since making the recent additions I've been wondering about turning it into a redirect to Crimean War Memorial. The main part of the memorial and the statues of Nightingale and Herbert all have separate entries in the National Heritage List for England, are by separate sculptors and should have separate Wikidata items. I'm on the fence about giving them individual articles, though I suspect there may well be significant coverage out there of Nightingale's statue. Ham II (talk) 21:57, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
I support there being individual articles, assuming there is enough coverage for each. I just wanted to make sure I had the right Nightingale statue in mind, and wanted to ask about the Herbert statue. ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:37, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

I went ahead and created Statue of Florence Nightingale, London. ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:10, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

I created a stub for Statue of Sidney Herbert, London, too. ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:17, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Banksy

This note isn't specific to public art in London, but I thought I'd share nonetheless. I created Template:Banksy and a handful of stubs related to his work. If you are interested, I'd appreciate help organizing the navbox and the order of its contents, and invite you to create or expand Banksy-related articles. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:41, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Wikidata list

I've created the page Wikipedia:WikiProject Public Art/London/Wikidata, which shows every public artwork in London with an item on Wikidata. I think that lists generated from Wikidata like this will be the way to achieve our goal of covering every single public artwork in London on Wikipedia, but of course a lot more items need to be added to Wikidata first. It would be great to start generating items from instances of {{Public art row}} at List of public art in the City of Westminster and the like, but I don't know if it's possible to do that yet. Any thoughts, Pigsonthewing? Adding datasets from the PMSA and Historic England would also help immensely with this, so I'll request those at a later date. Ham II (talk) 18:56, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

GA-ready, or close?

Are project members aware of any articles that are GA-ready, or pretty close? ---Another Believer (Talk) 21:08, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Nike (Kougioumtzis)

I created the article Nike (Kougioumtzis). I did so after seeing the sculpture in Vancouver, but learned there are multiple versions, including one in Woolwich. I don't think I am replacing information here, since I did not see an article about the Nike sculpture in London, and I certainly invite project members to expand the article, especially the London section. Thanks for your consideration! ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:06, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Another Believer. It would be great to have Wikidata items on all the casts of the statue erected since 1996, if we can find information about them. Ham II (talk) 19:20, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
Agreed. Sources say that Olympics host cities have been donated copies of the sculpture since 1996, but I am only finding info for London and Vancouver, so far. ---Another Believer (Talk) 20:16, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
Update: I found more info on his official website, which is a good confirmation of the multiple copies, but secondary sourcing is still needed. ---Another Believer (Talk) 20:47, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Tazza Fountain, Italian Garden, Hyde Park

Should there be an article for Tazza Fountain? See commons:Category:Tazza Fountain, Italian Garden, Hyde Park for images. ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:04, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

@Another Believer: It isn't in the National Heritage List for England, so I don't think it's notable enough for inclusion. (Oddly, it's absent from this listing which includes the statue of Edward Jenner and most of the Italian Gardens ensemble. I found this out with the ever useful WikiShootMe.) The category was incorrectly named so I've changed it to c:Category:Tazza Fountain, Italian Gardens, Kensington Gardens. I think the main omission nearby from the English Wikipedia (but not the French!) is the Statue of Peter Pan [fr]. Ham II (talk) 18:51, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. Maybe an article for the Italian Garden(s) would be more appropriate? ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:54, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
Personally, I think it would be better for the main Kensington Gardens article to go into greater depth on the Italian Gardens. Ham II (talk) 19:14, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

AfD: World (sculpture)

Resolved

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/World (sculpture) ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:40, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

@Ham II: Are you aware of any sources to note in the AfD discussion, or care to share your thoughts or cast a vote? ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:19, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

 The result was merge to Broadcasting House. ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:18, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report

We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, Community Tech bot will post at Wikipedia:WikiProject London/Public art/Archive 1/Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of WikiProject London.

We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:

  • The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
  • The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
  • The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to Mr.Z-man for his original Mr.Z-bot, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of WikiProject London, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Public Sculpture of Outer South and West London

Hi, does anyone have a copy of Public Sculpture of Outer South and West London to hand? I'm looking for more info on the South African War Memorial, Richmond Cemetery and possibly the other war memorials in Richmond Cemetery (the Cross of Sacrifice and the Bromhead Memorial, once I'm done with Lutyens) but it's quite an expensive book and I don't want to buy a copy if it doesn't contain anything useful. Thanks, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 11:50, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy, and nor do any libraries near me. Sorry not to be of more help. Ham II (talk) 16:28, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
No worries. I've ordered a copy. If it's as good as the Westminster volume then at least it'll look pretty on my bookshelf! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:49, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

List of public art in the City of Westminster nominated for featured list removal

Resolved

I have nominated List of public art in the City of Westminster for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Ham II (talk) 07:21, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Memorial listed at Requested moves

Resolved

There's a Requested Move discussion underway at Talk:King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Memorial. Ham II (talk) 10:11, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

List of public art in the City of Westminster again nominated for featured list removal

Resolved

I have nominated List of public art in the City of Westminster for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Ham II (talk) 06:47, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. ---Another Believer (Talk) 07:04, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Memorial to Heroic Self Sacrifice nominated for featured list removal

Resolved

I have nominated Memorial to Heroic Self Sacrifice for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Ham II (talk) 14:19, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

The Watchers

Resolved

Should The Watchers (sculpture) be added to this project and to London-related public art lists/templates? ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:29, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this one to my attention! Now added to Template:Public art in London and List of public art in the London Borough of Wandsworth. Ham II (talk) 07:57, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. I made sure the PALon banner is on the talk page as well. ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:43, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Turf War (Banksy) at AfD

Resolved

Turf War (Banksy) has been nominated for deletion, if any project members care to weigh in on the ongoing discussion or help improve the article. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 21:34, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

The article was kept. ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:22, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
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