Talk:Eleanor Roosevelt/Archive 4

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Pronunciation

Explaining his preference for the pronunciation IPA: [ˈɛlɪnɔː ˈɹoʊzəvɛlt] over /ˈɛlɪnɔr ˈroʊzəvɛlt/, Timeineurope says, “rhotic and non-rhotic varieties of English are equally standard - in making a choice between them, the deciding factor is that Roosevelt was a non-rhotic speaker.” I agree that rhotic and non-rhotic accents are equally valid. But he is wrong to say that we have to make a choice between them.

As explained at Phoneme#Notation, square bracket notation [ ] indicates a phonetic transcription (showing the details of pronunciation), whereas slash notation / / indicates a phonemic transcription (showing only significant differences). So the phonemic pronunciation /ɔr/ indicates the sound of or in “for” (however it is pronounced in a given dialect). In a rhotic dialect it might be realized as [ɔɹ]; in a non-rhotic dialect as [ɔː]. Similarly /oʊ/ indicates a “long o.” In American English it might be realized as [oʊ] or [o]; in standard British English as [əʊ].

The fact that Mrs. Roosevelt was a non-rhotic speaker does not affect the way that people pronounce her name. She may have pronounced her name as [ˈɛlɪnɔː ˈɹoʊzəvɛlt], but it is factually wrong to say that is the way to pronounce it. If the article gives a phonemic pronunciation, it is not necessary either to choose one pronunciation or to give multiple pronunciations. (For those who are not interested in IPA let me explain that in plain English: With the phonemic pronunciation that I prefer, the last syllable of “Eleanor” is pronounced like “nor” (however the reader pronounces “nor”). With the phonetic pronunciation that Timeineurope prefers, it is pronounced like “gnaw” (irrespective of how the reader pronounces “nor”).) --teb728 22:27, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Aren't the schwas in Eleanor and Roosevelt the same? kwami (talk) 04:22, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Once again, this dispute about pronunciation has flared up. It should be resolved here without repeated article reversions, please. JGHowes talk - 16:55, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I think the precise phonetic realization listed here should simply be a normal American realization of the sequence of phonemes she used, which would be rhotic. Discussing whether Eleanor Roosevelt's accent was rhotic or not is splitting hairs. Using people's own phonetic realizations of their names would be an unworkable standard.

An unrelated pronunciation point: Merriam-Webster's Tenth Collegiate indicates that a schwa in -velt was the Roosevelts' own pronunciation. (Preferring their pronunciation in this regard does not contradict my previous point; this change would relate to the phoneme.) When the -velt part is pronounced with a full 'e' sound, that syllable should carry secondary stress. I am mentioning this here because there is a warning to discuss changes to pronunciation before editing. 136.152.224.19 (talk) 06:49, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


I thought it was well-known that those two quite distant branches of the family pronounced their surname differently. Theodore said 'Rooz' and Franklin said 'Rose'. Whichever way Eleanor (related to both sides) pronounced her own name ought to be the way we say it when referring specifically to her. 86.171.216.122 (talk) 13:54, 31 March 2012 (UTC)


However, according to an audio tape that was available in the 1980s, "The Life and Times of Eleanor Roosevelt," Eleanor explains the pronunciation of the name "Roosevelt." The tape uses recordings from Eleanor as its primary narrative. Her explanation of the pronunciation is first-person. She says that the Teddy side of the family pronounced the name "Roose- (as in lose) uh-velt and Franklin's side of the family pronounced it Rose-uh-velt. She went on to explain that the two presidents were sixth cousins, of different political parties and they differed on many things, including the family-name pronunciation.

Lorena Hickok

Someone who watches this article and is familiar with the situation, might want to watchlist the Lorena Hickok article and confirm that the content there is proper. As well as List of LGBT couples. I figured this might not be correct since this there is no mention of this Hickok in this article. --Dual Freq (talk) 03:45, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

LGBT?

Are you sure she was part of the LGBT group. She was married to a man. Rio de oro (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 22:03, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
No, it seems to be pure speculation. While a lesbian friend was in love with her, there doesn't seem to be any strong evidence that she was a lesbian herself. This has been discussed above. --Nick Dowling (talk) 10:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Correspondence between Roosevelt and Hickok supports theories that Roosevelt may have at least been bisexual. References should be made to those letters because they do indicate a close and possibly intimate relationship existed between the two women. 02:35, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

The article states Eleanor Roosevelt wore a ring that Lorena Hickok gave her. Hickok's page states she was LGBT and that she lived on the Rooosevelt estate until her own death. If the lesbian attention repeatedly shown towards E. Roosevelt was unwanted and unreciprocated, she would not have accepted the ring, let alone worn it. Furthermore, Hickok would not have been allowed anywhere near the Roosevelt family or estate at all. Had the media and the public discovered a same-gender, extramarital affair of such a high-profile and high-status wife, it would have destroyed not only her reputation, but her husband's reputation and career as well - FDR would have been a laughing stock, and could not have continued his career. Its discovery, during the 1930s, would have brought great shame on the Roosevelt family. The fact that Hickok was so close to E. Roosevelt, with such high risks to their reputations, should the lesbianism have been discovered, proves that there was a reciprocal lesbian relationship that was very important to both women. How is that not considered sufficient proof that E. Roosevelt was lesbian or bisexual? She should be in at least one LGBT category. Werdnawerdna (talk) 10:24, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

None of this "evidence" is convincing. There is a passage in one of Eleanor's letters to Hickok which I'll paraphrase, which seems to refute any claims that she was a lesbian. Eleanor told Hickok in the letter that she did believe and value the fact that Hickok loved her. However, Eleanor continued, she herself had no such feelings as between women. She respected these feelings as legitimate, but they were foreign to her. To me, this passage shows Eleanor's rare compassion and understanding of others, as well as her honesty.

As for the frequently quoted line, in another letter, in which Eleanor says she wants to kiss Hickok--well, in those days, female friends were more soppy in general. (I don't know how else to put it.) It was common for women friends of all types and ages in that era to walk around hand in hand, or arm in arm, and to kiss. And finally, Eleanor's long, close and affectionate relationship with her burly male bodyguard Miller, extending to enjoying sports and private times together, suggests to me a discreet, quietly happy romance. Younggoldchip (talk) 21:53, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Roosevelt was very closely associated with lesbianism, however, she does not seem to have been one herself. In September 1899, her grandmother and aunt Bamie Cowles (Theodore Roosevelt's sister) sent her to the private, prestigious, all-girls Allenswood school in England, where the headmistress, Marie Souvestre, was a lesbian. This seemed to have little impact on the young Eleanor Roosevelt but her cousin, Corinne Alsop (nee' Robinson) could see something unusual in Souvestre's personal relationships. Her close lesbian friends from the 1930's even said that she was not a lesbian. Esther Lape, who survived Roosevelt by 19 years and stood to gain the most by saying she was a lesbian even stated that Roosevelt outright refused to engage in homosexual conduct. Her cousin, Alice Longworth, who had almost nothing good to say of Eleanor Roosevelt even vehemently denied the possibility of a lesbian relationship. Furthermore, James and Elliott Roosevelt, her sons who were not above saying or writing anything adverse of their mother did not believe she was a lesbian. Eleanor's granddaughter, Eleanor Seagraves stated that she believes her grandmother had a deep love for Hickok but was not in love with her nor engaged in a lesbian relationship. Someone in Roosevelt's inner circle would've easily noticed a relationship and homosexual relationships then stood out like a sore thumb because to be outed would've brought great shame, much more so then than today. In my opinion, Roosevelt seemed very sure of her sexual orientation and it was not homosexual. 15:48, 2 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.23.47.66 (talk)

Clarification needed

There is a sentence which reads "[i]n November, 1903, they became engaged, although the engagement was not announced for more than a year, until December 1, 1904, at the insistence of FDR's mother, Sara Delano Roosevelt."

Sara Roosevelt's position is not clear.

Did she insist on the engagement being kept secret, or did she insist on its disclosure?

John Paul Parks (talk) 00:19, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Further Clarification needed elsewhere

There are a few points in the introduction to the article which I think need addressing.

1) "She worked to enhance the status of working women, although she opposed the Equal Rights Amendment because she believed it would adversely affect women."

1a) what does "enhance" mean here? Should this read instead "argued for", or better, something less vague, more concrete: e.g. was she working with feminist organisations? 1b) what does "working women" mean here? Active in support of working-class women, or in supporting equal-employment rights for women, or something else? 1c) the article is overly-affirmative as a whole, and controversies such as her opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment (quoted above) should be used to critically qualify her alleged support for women's working rights.

2) "Roosevelt chaired the John F. Kennedy administration's ground-breaking committee which helped start second-wave feminism, the Presidential Commission on the Status of Women"

2a) this is a generalisation that is not backed up in any way; moreover, it seems to be untrue. "Second-wave" feminism is dated much further back; it is a mass-movement (not purely legislative or intellectual, nor State driven); in fact, the commission may be seen as a placatory measure which didn't lead to any significant gains for women's rights - quite the opposite. On all these points, it is enough to consult <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-wave_feminism>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-wave_feminism</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Commission_on_the_Status_of_Women">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Commission_on_the_Status_of_Women</a> to realise there are some problems. 2b)frankly, given the above, the idea that the committee was "ground-breaking", and that it "helped start second-wave feminism" is insulting to the work and achievements of feminist activists. 2c) more critical attention needs to be given in the article to the way in which Roosevelt was used as a figure who could appeal to "both sides" of the debate about women's rights, and the way in which E.R. is arguably representative of a fairly conservative and patriarchal Liberal politics, rather than of a radical (i.e. ground-breaking) agenda. This links in with the larger struggle to maintain the Liberal consensus in the 60s.

I hope these comments are useful. Wit —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.105.210.237 (talk) 11:13, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

"Anti-Catholic"

I appreciate the cites, but I still feel there needs to be a specific quote or attribution that says of her that she was anti-Catholic in order for the "she's not anti-Catholic" quote to stay. Otherwise it's a pre-emptive defence and unbalanced. Surely Spellman said something? Slac speak up! 04:55, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

This is what I've found about ER's prejudices on Catholics:
Smith, Jean Edward FDR, p. 77, Random House, 2007 ISBN 978-1-4000-6121-1:
"Both he [FDR] and Eleanor shared the anti-Irish, anti-Catholic prejudices of their time and class.* ...
*ER's feelings never completely changed. 'Franklin was always surrounded by Catholics,' she told her friend Irine Sandifer in 1960. "They were determined to see that he was always surrounded.' Irine Reiterman Sandifer, Mrs. Roosevelt as We Knew Her 86 (Silver Spring, Md.: privately printed, 1975)."
Smith, p. 148 (also view on Jews):
"Despite her wide exposure, some prejudices died hard. Eleanor never felt completely comfortable with the Roman Catholic clergy and the Irish politicians with whom FDR consorted, and her tolerance for those of the Jewish faith grew slowly.* Eleanor was distressed in January 1918 when she was obliged to attend a gala given by the British Embassy to honor Bernard Baruch, then head of the War Industries Board. It would be 'mostly Jews,' she wrote her Sara, and 'I'd rather be hung than seen there.' Afterward she reported, 'The Jew party was apalling. I never wish to hear money, jewels, and sables menioned again.'
Several months later Eleanor was surprised when FDR brought the young Harvard professor and Washington consultant Felix Frankfurter home for lunch. She found Frankfurter unappealing. 'An interesting little man,' she wrote Sara, 'but very Jew.' Later she would refuse to read Maurice Low's interpretive biography of Woodrow Wilson because the author was 'such a loathsome little Jew.' Blanche Wiesen Cook, Eleanor's elegant biographer, noted, 'ER's caustic comments concerning Jews remained a routine part of her social observation for many years, diminishing as her friendship with Baruch and other Jews flourished.'
FDR did not have that problem..."
Vints (talk) 09:12, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

World War II: championing Americans of Japanese ancestry

I saw claims that ER advocated that those in Hawaii not be interned, among other things. With more documentation, this would be worth inclusion. Source: this documentary shown on PBS http://www.thefirstbattle.com/ DHR (talk) 06:07, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Languages

An amusing comment by Gore Vidal:

You know, she came to the White House speaking six or seven languages. Roosevelt couldn’t do restaurant French.[1]

However, the article only mentions her speaking French... GregorB (talk) 19:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, that goes to Vidal's reliability.THD3 (talk) 00:30, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Birthplace

Her birthplace as "New York City" is not certain. It needs a citation, I have a citation that she was not. Wjhonson (talk) 21:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Lucy Mercer

I find that some of the wording regarding the Franklin's affair with Lucy Mercer ("...the affair continued right up until Franklin's death") is misleading. It makes it seem that FDR saw Lucy on a regular basis, when in fact their contact stopped from 1918 until the 1930s. From then until Franklin's death, he saw her sporadically, although the frequency increased in the last year of his life. Also, I'm adding a citation request for Theodore Roosevelt's reaction to the affair. I'm fairly well read on the Roosevelts and have never come across information indicating TR knew.THD3 (talk) 00:13, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I recall reading one of Roosevelt's son's opinion that his father and Lucy Mercer could not possibly have had a physical affair after FDR became an invalid. "He was paralyzed from the waist down," as the son put it. Also, a reporter who frequently saw Roosevelt being transferred from car to wheel chair, etc. has said that he was completely helpless in these transfers. He was moved "like a sack of potatoes" by others. This suggests that although Roosevelt and Lucy Mercer continued as companions, their sexual affair was long over. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Younggoldchip (talk • contribs) 22:07, 2 February 2009 (UTC) Younggoldchip (talk) 22:17, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Last name / first name

Is there a reason Roosevelt is referred to (fairly consistently) as "Eleanor" throughout the article? Doesn't MOS say we should call her "Roosevelt"? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 00:50, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Fixed, except in some paragraphs where it was necessary to call all the family members by first name, as suggested in Mos:Bio. Some other people were also improperly referred to (by first name or initials) and I've fixed that as well. One question: an advisor or relative named Corinne is referred to in the section on Franklin's affair, but no last name is given. Does anyone know her surname? Ariadne55 (talk) 02:53, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
That must be Corinne Roosevelt Robinson - she's referred to earlier in the article as "Corinne Robinson". Thanks for fixing those :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:50, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the name and wikilink :-) I've added them. Ariadne55 (talk) 06:44, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Health and age

A section on Roosevelt's health should be added. For a woman of great energy, she must've overcome many health maladies during her life. She apparently was self-disciplined to have had such weak health as indicated by her short life of only seventy-eight years. 02:38, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

'Short' life?! Her lifespan was much longer than average for the time, even for a rich person. Look at life expectancy statistics over time. Note that lives were then, on average, far shorter than they are today. Werdnawerdna (talk) 09:54, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Not necessarily. Her aunt Corinne Robinson died in 1933 at age 71, and her aunt Anna Cowles was 76 when she died in 1931. Theodore Roosevelt's wife was 87 in 1948 at her death. So the ages stayed fairly consistent over thirty years. Even her cousins, Corinne Alsop (died aged 84), Ethel Derby (died aged 86) and Alice Longworth (died aged 96) had longer, far longer lifespans than Roosevelt. Also, her maternal grandmother who died in 1919 lived to be 76 years old. I can't help but believe that 78 years is not that long of a life to live. 13:15, 1 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.237.77.153 (talk)

Seventy eight years is not a short life by any standard. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.252.183.253 (talk) 04:29, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Punctuation

Not going to bother signing in for this one because it's a minor point. I cannot even read this article because the punctuation is AWFUL. FYI, periods and commas go INSIDE quotation mards. Elipses are three periods "..." not as long as you want them "........" 198.135.224.110 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 21:27, 14 November 2008 (UTC).

How are you going to complain about punctuation when your diction is off? I suspect that when you wrote "mards," I believe you were trying to say "marks." The authors of the article are just as careless as you are. This is a "No Stone Throwing Zone."

FDR's choice of a wife

FDR probably should've chosen Alice Roosevelt as his wife instead of Eleanor Roosevelt. She was prettier than Eleanor Roosevelt, lived much longer (this would have put her near the top of the list for longevity of First Ladies), unlike ER's lack of longevity and was a more outgoing person than ER. 02:30, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Please reserve the Talk page for discussions about the articles content, not comments about the subject(s) of the article. But since we're on the subject, FDR came to detest Alice. At one point, he told Eleanor "I don't want to see that woman ever again."THD3 (talk) 11:08, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

He only came to detest Alice Longworth after she stated she would rather vote for Hitler rather than vote for FDR for a third term. Had they been married, the relationship would've been much different. 01:47, 10 March 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.23.42.218 (talk)

How do you know? Really, how DO you know? Lash's biography, probably the most accurate b/c he interviewed Longworth while alive, does not indicate in any way that she was interested in FDR as a husband or anything else. She thought he was a lightweight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.252.183.253 (talk) 04:37, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Alice does not appear to have been interested in anyone except Alice. But that is understandable. Her mother died near the time of her birth, and her father abandoned her to the care of relatives for two years while he "found himself" on a cowboy ranch out West.John Paul Parks (talk) 17:13, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Portrait

Why does it keep getting swapped in and out? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 21:59, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Someone again replaced the White House portrait in the Infobox with file:Eleanor Roosevelt portrait 1933.jpg, without any explanation or consensus to do so. I've reverted the change, absent any consensus that this soft focus, 1933 b&w photo (below, left) is preferable to her White House portrait (right):
                    

                    —  JGHowes  talk 00:57, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
If one of the miracle workers over at Commons could clean up the 1933 image, I could support using it instead of the White House painting. - ✰ALLST☆R✰ echo 22:03, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
I think the White House painting has to be changed...it's blurry, in .gif format (not ideal for this type of image), and in a decorative composition. We need a photographic portrait. Connormah (talk) 03:38, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Can I size this image properly or do we need a quorum for that? ;) The imagesize is only 177px so the default of 200px causes pixelation, or the "blurry" mentioned above. Thanks Hutcher (talk) 04:23, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

I would support using the 1933 photo over the official White House portrait for the main photo. Somebody should bring it to Graphic lab if there are really that many concerns about the presentation of the image. But they should definitely be swapped. Happyme22 (talk) 00:54, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
EncyMind (talk) 22:59, 23 June 2011 (UTC)Yousuf Karsh did a stunning portrait of ER. http://www.geh.org/ne/mismi3/m198130600026_ful.html ER kept her hands busy - often knitting while talking. That is why her hands are a focus of the portrait. Most of Karsh's work is in the public domain. I am still learning my way around, have not figured out how to upload works in the public domain to Wikimedia Commons, but, if someone is adept at that, this might be a good portrait.

An Eleanor quote

The Neptune Society keeps sending me suggestions, along with this quote attributed to Eleanor: "Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift; That's why they call it the present." Anybody know where/when/whether she said this? If genuine, might be added somewhere. JohnClarknew (talk) 08:20, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Weird sentence

In November 1905, they became engaged, although the engagement was not announced until December 1, 1904, at the insistence of Franklin's mother, Sara Delano Roosevelt.

How were they engaged in 1905, but announced it in 1904? Is it suppose to be December 1, 1905? --Ted87 (talk) 19:23, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

History

The line "She handed the phone to Smith and the rest is history." can only lead one to question the position of wikipedia as an at all credible historical resource. What kind of treatise on history would contain such a vacuous remark. Please would somebody with an apt knowledge of the history of 20th century American politics insert a description of whatever event it is that "is history". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.116.219 (talk) 00:50, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Introduction for The Diary of a Young Girl by Anne Frank

I read that Eleanor Roosevelt did an introduction for this book. It's pretty notable. 70.15.212.110 (talk) 18:35, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Royal Visit by George VI & Elizabeth

Due to the Statue of Westminster, I had thought that the Royal couple in question was the Canadian Royal family, as they had also accepted the new Ambassador from the US to Canada.

Vuarra (talk) 21:32, 4 August 2010 (UTC) Vuarra Aug. 4, 2010 17:32 EDT

Franklin D. Roosevelt

Can you please put a small over view of "FDR" when you mention him? That would make your article a lot better. Was Eleanor against Japanese people in WW2? Thanks! FalconClasher (talk) 21:50, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

She was a racist - hated Japanese. But so were most Americans in the 1940's. Pre-war most Americans hated "blacks". Nowadays most Americans hate Muslims. Is America full of hate? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.15.138 (talk) 02:18, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Your comments are pretty hateful. Get a life.97.73.64.160 (talk) 23:54, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

And our reaction after Pearl Harbor was supposed to be what?John Paul Parks (talk) 17:15, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Trivia or relevant?

This recording is referenced at William Mayer and The Little Orchestra Society (i added the ref of the actual album in my possession), but im not sure its that notable. I gather she did a lot of humanitarian and cultural projects, this may not deserve a mention in her article.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 03:37, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Lesbian

It seems fairly clear that she was a lesbian. Shouldn't that be stated in the article, rather than hinted at?

If men were not welcome into her press conferences, isn't that discrimination? The justification was that "female journalists were so heavily discriminated against". Isn't that an absurd contradiction? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.15.138 (talk) 02:16, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

File:Eleanor Roosevelt with Soong Mei-ling.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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First meeting with FDR.

The article states that Eleanor met Franklin for the first time after she finished high school. I don't think that's true. I remember reading that they danced together at a ball when she was about fourteen years old.97.73.64.160 (talk) 23:56, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

If you can make proper citations from a reliable source, by all means go ahead and change it. Googol30 (talk) 02:09, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Current Photo is not a picture of Eleanor Roosevelt

I just wanted to bring to everyone's attention that the main photo for the article is not a photo of Eleanor Roosevelt. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.115.174.238 (talk) 19:29, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Which image are you talking about? Nick-D (talk) 07:16, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Roosevelt death from TB

Wikipedia article states that Roosevelt died from latent TB which was re-activated after having been put on steroids. It is correct that this is what the pathologists guessed at the time of her autopsy. However, it has been recently hypothesized that she might have acquired a new strain of TB since it turned out the strain she died from was resistant to INH and streptomycin: If the TB strain that killed her had been latent prior to the discovery of antibiotics (as it was known she contracted TB in 1919), the strain found on autopsy should have been susceptible to INH at the time of re-activation; thus mycobacterial chemotherapy should have treated her miliary TB. Persist (talk) 01:03, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Hot Dogs

Regarding the visit of King George and Queen Elizabeth and the serving of hot dogs: 1) The reference for this is currently a dead link. I have found the new URL for the same reference, so the link should be updated to: http://docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/royalv.html, 2) I think a phrase should be added that hot dogs were only one thing on the menu, with more "adult" fare also being served, as shown in the full menu displayed at the same reference, and 3) There is a great letter from Queen Elizabeth where she clearly states that "the children were thrilled... with the hot dogs!" at http://docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/queensre.html 70.36.142.82 (talk) 09:13, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Pronunciation

According to an audio tape that was available in the 1980s, "The Life and Times of Eleanor Roosevelt," Eleanor explains the pronunciation of the name "Roosevelt." The tape uses recordings from Eleanor as its primary narrative. Her explanation of the pronunciation is first-person. She says that the Teddy side of the family pronounced the name "Roose- (as in lose) uh-velt and Franklin's side of the family pronounced it Rose-uh-velt. She went on to explain that the two presidents were sixth cousins, of different political parties and they differed on many things, including pronunciation of the family name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.16.96.243 (talk) 08:56, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Geographical Area

There is a neighborhood in San Juan, Puerto Rico named Eleanor Roosevelt. I am going to take a guess it is named after her -- does anyone know anything about this area, that it is actually named after her, so it can be added to the article?

Google Maps reference

AWN2 (talk) 01:33, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Helen Keller

Ok we all know who Hellen Keller is but im sure there is some stuff you dont know about her like...

Her B-day is June 27, 1880 when she was a little girl she was able to hear and see but sadly when she was about 2 years old she came down with a very bad illness witch did not leave fast and because of that she lost her sight and hearing witch made her not talk very often soon her parents tried to get her glasses but nothing helped and sadly she would be blind forever same with her hearing.

When she was older her parents got her a teacher named "ANNE SULLIVAN" Anne knew she was going to be a challenge but taught hellen many things.

hellen was so smart that she even graduated college and started a school for the blind.

sadly on june 1,1968 hellen keller died but today she is one of the worlds greatest heros all because of her bravery!

thxs for reading!!! :-D — Preceding unsigned comment added by Devri1212 (talk • contribs) 22:05, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Archiving

This talk page is getting a little backed up. If there are no objections, I've added Miszabot to begin auto-archiving the page to avoid a similar accumulation in the future. If this seems inappropriate to anyone, however, please feel free to revert me and we can discuss. -- Khazar2 (talk) 20:45, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Fun Facts About Eleanor Roosevelt

She was Theodore Roosevelt's niece. Franklin D. Roosevelt her husband was also her distant cousin. FDR called her Babs. Her mother called her Granny because she was so serious and old-fashioned. The only thing she knew how to cook was scrambled eggs. She wrote a syndicated colunm called "My Day"from 1935 to 1962.

Adding date tag so this will be archived. -- Khazar2 (talk) 02:15, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Trying to improve to GA/FA

I'm interested in trying to bring this up to at least Good Article status for WP:WikiProject Human Rights. It appears the biggest issue in the previous reviews (which took place in 2007) was a lack of inline citations. I grabbed a few library books today and will work off-and-on in the coming week to address this issue. Any interested collaborators would be welcome! Cheers, -- Khazar2 (talk) 20:35, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Along with working to improve citations, one thing that strikes me is that the article is greatly weighted toward her personal life (affairs, etc.), at the expense of her work as first lady and later in overseeing the drafting of the UNDHR. Both belong in the article, of course, but I'm going to work to redress this balance if there are no objections. -- Khazar2 (talk) 02:12, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
Additionally, I'm probably going to reduce the Alice Roosevelt section here if there are no objections. ER's feud with Alice is interesting to note, but surely less important than things like ER's years of inspecting state facilities during FDR's governorship, etc. -- Khazar2 (talk) 17:30, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
Looking at this again, I've simply removed the long section about tensions with Alice R. It's mostly unsourced, but more to the point, it doesn't seem to be an element in the biographies of ER and FDR I have here at the house (or at the ER Paper Project online, which devotes subpages to many figures from ER's life). It's possible I'm just not looking at the right biographies, though, so if anybody has other sources that give this more prominent mention, just let me know, and we'll include some kind of sourced version. -- Khazar2 (talk) 15:14, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
On a similar note, I've condensed the lengthy section of biographical speculation about her relationship with Sara DR. It's definitely worth mentioning, but seems disproportionate to get an entire subsection. I'm hoping to simply integrate this into the "marriage" bit. -- Khazar2 (talk) 20:43, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Roosevelt at New School

I've removed for now the claim that "Roosevelt would later study at The New School in the 1920s." because it's suspiciously vague and conflicts with the other article text (that ER's formal education ended at Allenswood). I also can't verify this claim with a Google Books search or in books I have here on my desk, though I've been able to do this easily for other claims in the article so far. The reference is, unfortunately, behind a paywall. Does anyone have a Time magazine subscription so that we could get details?

"Education: New School for Old Students". Time. February 24, 1967. Retrieved March 13, 2010. (subscription required)

Cheers, -- Khazar2 (talk) 12:43, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Since I was unable to independently verify this, and since it conflicts with other sources I've looked at, I've removed it for now. -- Khazar2 (talk) 03:17, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Roosevelt and the media

I've reduced this section a bit, since it lacks inline citations and relies quite heavily on a single historian's particular viewpoint. (The rewritten version has inline citations to the JSTOR article, but alas, I don't seem to have access to the book through any local libraries.) I've also moved it to be a subsection of the First Lady section, since it appears to primarily deal with her writings in the White House years. As always, let me know if I'm overstepping myself; I'm glad to discuss if anybody has differing opinions. -- Khazar2 (talk) 03:16, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

To do

Okay, I've sourced most of the information in the article now, and wrangled a few redundant or overlapping sections into what appears to me a more straightforward outline. I've also reduced a few more sections that appeared to me to get undue weight (such as the Spellman fight). Here are some things I think the article still needs, which I'll be addressing in the coming week: *a mention in the marriage section of FDR's late-in-life attempt to reconcile with ER and live as husband and wife *More detail on her growing political role in the '20s, particularly the way she would tour as FDR's "eyes and ears" as governor

  • More detail on her role in the UN DHR

I've got a pile of books to look things up in at the moment, so I'm glad to take any suggestions that others may have for this "to do" list. Cheers, -- Khazar2 (talk) 22:24, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Memorial

Per the suggestion of the GA Reviewer (which I agree with as well), I've collapsed the individual section for the statue of Eleanor Roosevelt into the death subsection. Right now this article doesn't have dedicated sections for much more significant and widely discussed aspects of her life--her possible lesbian affair, her advocacy for women's rights, her work as First Lady of New York, etc.--so a full section for this statue seems excessive. If the statue is internationally famous in a way that I'm not understanding, though, I'd be happy to look at additional sources on this and help expand. -- Khazar2 (talk) 03:27, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Khazar: the memorial is notable (if not internationally famous) as the first American monument to a First Lady. Rather than give it a separate section, I separated it into a second paragraph, owing to the gap in years between Roosevelt's death and the monument's dedication. Also I created a new Wikipedia article for the monument (along the lines of other articles about Riverside Park monuments), and will embellish it there, rather than in the ER article. Buckyboot (talk) 01:37, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

That's an excellent solution--thanks. Do you have a source that this was the 1st american monument to a first lady? That would be a good sentence to add to the article. -- Khazar2 (talk) 03:27, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

I can only find two sources: a 1996 article in the NY Times states that the monument's backers claimed that the monument was the first dedicated to a "president's wife." I don't understand how that differs from a "first lady" except to enlarge the pool of candidates, i.e. to include women who were married to a president and may have been or not been First Lady. Secondly, the Riverside Park Conservancy website makes a similar claim. I cannot find another monument to a president's wife, searching online, and I am not sure how to prove a "negative" in this case. Perhaps the claim should be mentioned, but qualified as a claim, rather than a fact.Buckyboot (talk) 23:21, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Sound good. Could you add the NYT citaiton to the article? Or if you give a link, I'll be happy to do it. Thanks! -- Khazar2 (talk) 11:58, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Tomorrow Is Now (Penguin Classics) [Paperback] Eleanor Roosevelt (Author), Allida Black (Introduction), Bill Clinton (Foreword)

Tomorrow Is Now (Penguin Classics) [Paperback] Eleanor Roosevelt (Author), Allida Black (Introduction), Bill Clinton (Foreword)

PLEASE LIST ON HER PAGE!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.79.236.93 (talk) 15:23, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

No need to shout. =) The article doesn't currently have a list of her complete works, so I see no need to include this one. It didn't appear from her biographical materials that I looked at to be particularly significant. -- Khazar2 (talk) 15:49, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Favourite

Eleanor Roosevelt was a common target of Nazi propagandists. This might be mentioned.

Can you please suggest a reference which can be used to support such material? Nick-D (talk) 10:32, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
See www.bytwerk.com/gpa/naziimages.htm
A self-published website isn't a very good source by Wikipedia standards. (See our policy on reliable sources). Can you check one of Roosevelt's biographies for this?
Though I personally find this interesting, I should warn you, too, that as a summary of a long public career, this article can't include every detail about her life, so we'll want to be sure it's a topic that her biographies discuss in detail. -- Khazar2 (talk) 12:02, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
See Marian Anderson.

Infobox

I've removed an addition of ER's extended family tree to the infobox, which overloads it with information; per the infobox instructions, "Only use those parameters that convey essential or notable information about the subject", which a complete list of her extended family surely isn't. It's also odd and inaccurate to replace "African Americans" with "Africans" and "Asian Americans" with "Asians". I did leave her parents in, though--thanks for that addition. -- Khazar2 (talk) 00:57, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Top level "See Also" reference to PBS film "The Roosevelts"

Is this top level "See Also" reference needed to the film "The Roosevelts" (Added 15 Sept 2014). Similar references were found to be undue and removed from Franklin Roosevelt and Theodore Roosevelt pages. Inclusion here could be perceived as promotion of a contemporary documentary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.117.102.227 (talk) 16:54, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

I think it should be deleted -- 70.51.46.146 (talk) 04:52, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Editsemiprotected

Please rewrite the hatnote to indicate the disambiguation page

This article is about the First Lady of the United States. For other uses, see Eleanor Roosevelt (disambiguation).

{{about|the First Lady of the United States|other uses|Eleanor Roosevelt (disambiguation)}} -- 70.51.46.146 (talk) 04:54, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

 Done and well done with the disambiguation page - Arjayay (talk) 11:52, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

FAC?

This article is outstanding! Why isn't it a featured article? Rationalobserver (talk) 23:08, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Probably because the user who got this up to GA, Khazar2, never took it to FAC. I wouldn't nominate this for FA without informing major/frequent contributors, though. It wouldn't hurt to have a peer review beforehand. Snuggums (talk / edits) 23:45, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Oh, I wasn't implying that I would take it to FAC. I just read through it and was impressed by the high quality of the article. Rationalobserver (talk) 23:48, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Understood. Snuggums (talk / edits) 23:49, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
I'd certainly be willing to help out, but I think an FAC of this magnitude might be above my pay grade at this point. Plus, it's a project that requires an Eleanor expert, and while I have been a life long admirer, I claim no expertise on this subject. Rationalobserver (talk) 16:38, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
SNUGGUMS, how can I find out who the primary contributors here are? Rationalobserver (talk) 22:39, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
See this Snuggums (talk / edits) 22:43, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Hey, thanks! Rationalobserver (talk) 22:52, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Issue with article

Standard Wikipedia whitewash job.

There is not a word in the article about Mrs Roosevelt's utter indifference to the fate of tens of millions of human beings being murdered by the Marxists in the Soviet Union in the 1920s and 1930s. Mrs Roosevelt knew what was happening (after all the files of the old "Russian Section" of the State Department that the New Dealers abolished in 1933 were known to the top people - including Mrs Roosevelt), but did not say a word about it till years later. Anyone reading this article would come away with the idea that Mrs Roosevelt was some sort of humanitarian - she was anything but.90.194.129.187 (talk) 09:39, 16 January 2015 (UTC)


Eleanor Roosevelt's very closest friends, Adlai Stevenson and Mercedes McCambridge are not included here.

From the 1940s til her death, Gov. Adlai Stevenson and Academy Award actress Mercedes McCambridge were Mrs. Roosevelt's very closest friends. I'm really surprised they both were not included in her bio, but then, 99% of everyone of that era is, unfortunately, gone. 3777 107.219.245.145 (talk) 13:45, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

External link to recording of conversation with JFK?

As part of WGBH's Prospects of Mankind Eleanor Roosevelt interviewed President Kennedy shortly before her death, and before she could begin work with the Presidential Commission on the Status of Women: http://openvault.wgbh.org/catalog/V_285B9C3362534FFF8494B95922E3240B

Would this be appropriate as an external link? (I helped with the site, so it'd be a conflict of interest for me to add.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mccallucc (talk • contribs) 18:08, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

First Lady of the United States (1933–1945)

Please change:

She also wrote a widely syndicated newspaper column, "My Day", another first.

to

She also wrote a widely syndicated newspaper column, "My Day", and was the only First Lady ever to be elected to Phi Beta Kappa at Radcliffe college in 1941.[1][2]

Amandapbk (talk) 16:23, 31 May 2016 (UTC)amandapbk on 5/31/16

  1. ^ http://www.clubs.psu.edu/PhiBetaKappa/hist.html
  2. ^ http://phibetakappa.tumblr.com/post/40605244002/eleanor-roosevelt-φbk-radcliffe-college-1941

Image

I'm not exactly sure why that low-quality painting is used in the infobox, when we have many high-quality photographs that can be used instead. Propose change to File:Eleanor Roosevelt portrait 1933.jpg. MB298 (talk) 21:31, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

I agree that it is more encyclopedic to use a photograph in the infobox, and that choice seems suitable. Regarding the present image, I nosed around, and for some reason the caption reading "White House portrait" disappeared in February. The image of the painting has been in the infobox since July 2007, replacing a photograph of ER addressing the United Nations.
The painting is in the collection of the White House, but captioning it a "White House portrait" is a bit misleading. The painting was reluctantly commissioned by ER herself in 1949, for her family, and it was purchased for the White House in 1966. I think the image should be moved to the "Cultural references" section of the article, with information about its creation and acquisition. — WFinch (talk) 19:02, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
I've added information about the portrait at the beginning of the "Recognition and awards" section of the article. This seems a more appropriate place for the image. — WFinch (talk) 05:49, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

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Eleanor Roosevelt attended 'ALLENSWOOD' school, not "Allenwood".

Eleanor Roosevelt attended 'ALLENSWOOD' school, not "Allenwood". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:CDBB:5300:1890:C217:3F04:2648 (talk) 03:35, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Relationships

I know that Carrie Chapman Catt, mentioned in this article as a friend of Roosevelt's, was also strongly believed to be a lesbian, in a similar situation to Roosevelt herself. This is backed up by authoritative sources, though I'm not sure where the majority of historians have placed their consensus, if any, and I'm surprised her wiki article doesn't really mention it, though it's lacking in a great many details, as people describe on the talk page. Can we include Catt along with the other lesbians listed, or make a special note of her similar historical situation? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.85.55.218 (talk) 02:58, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Do you have any reliable sources to support the content you would like to add? I did a quick search and didn't come up with anything that tied Catt's sexuality to Roosevelt. The first step in adding potentially contested information is locating reliable sources. Knope7 (talk) 17:13, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Quote - "I once had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalogue: no good in a bed, but fine up against a wall".

This page indicates that "there is no evidence to support the story " that Eleanor later quipped, "I once had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalogue: no good in a bed, but fine up against a wall".[93]”

But it appears there is evidence as indicated on your Wikiquote page https://en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=Eleanor_Roosevelt&oldid=2118076

From the Wikiquote page "I had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalogue: "No good in a bed, but fine against a wall". From a speech given at the White Shrine Club, Fresno, California, quoted in The Event Makers I’ve Known (2012) by Elvin C. Bell, p. 161. She is described as being in her late 70s, so c. 1960–1962."

I believe that the Wikipedia page should be corrected to indicate that there is evidence as indicated. RussellRR (talk) 21:55, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

The sentence in question is this "However, though this is true, there is no evidence to support the story that Eleanor later quipped, 'I once had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalogue: no good in a bed, but fine up against a wall'." I think the wording is certainly awkward and a contradiction. I don't think the quote adds much and I would favor removing it. Knope7 (talk) 01:29, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Tidying up

I did a bit of grammatical tidying, removal of repetitive Wikilinks, sentences that said the same thing but in different paragraphs, & some shuffling around of paragraphs in the *Marriage & family life* section for better flow & coherency to the reader.

I removed these 2 paragraphs, as I couldn't find a reason for them to be here:

Eleanor Roosevelt Seagraves (née Dall, born in 1927), was named for her maternal grandmother Eleanor as well as for Seagraves' own mother, Anna Roosevelt Halsted. When her parents separated in 1933 (they divorced in 1934), she, her mother, and brother Curtis moved into the White House with her grandparents. They lived there for many years until Curtis' mother remarried. When his mother divorced again in 1949, Eleanor and Curtis' mother did not want Curtis to reassume the surname Dall, so Eleanor suggested he use his middle name as his last name, which he did.[1]

Corinne Douglas Robinson frequently visited the White House when Franklin was President, though she was a Republican. She and Eleanor were close throughout their lives. However, her visits to Washington, D.C. caused family tensions, and when in D.C., she was often asked by both Eleanor and Alice (Alice was a leader in Washington society) to stay at her home. Her decision was usually made based on who had asked her first.

Article isn't about Eleanor Seagraves (who has her own article), so I didn't see why all that abrupt & confusing folderol about (presumably) her mother's divorces & her brother's changing his last name to Roosevelt after them has anything to do with Eleanor Roosevelt. I understand that a pattern was trying to be made that Eleanor did not get along well with many family members, but, in the absence of an explanation why both Eleanor & her cousin Alice didn't want Corinne around the White House, it sounds more as if Corinne was the annoying person in that paragraph.

The last bit about books written by family members gets confusing toward the end....presumably the last few books were penned by her son Elliott, but without proper attribution, it's unclear who wrote them. Shouldn't all those books be under a different heading, or are we still trying to point out that even her own son couldn't stand her, whilst one was her furious defender, or what? ScarletRibbons (talk) 04:08, 10 June 2017 (UTC)


References

  1. ^ "Curtis Roosevelt." Contemporary Authors Online. Detroit: Gale, 2010. Literature Resource Center.

delegate to UN not in infobox?

Article says: In December 1945, President Harry S. Truman appointed Eleanor as a delegate to the United Nations General Assembly.[2] In April 1946, she became the first chairperson of the preliminary United Nations Commission on Human Rights. But, if I am not mistaken, infobox only mentions Human Rights Commission, not UN delegate. AAABBB222 (talk) 21:55, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Recent edits

I dream of horses Hi - I made the entries regarding ER's visit to the Nat. Training School for Girls, all intended to be constructive, to document an important part of her public life, which happened across the street from where i live! Her activism on the school was well documented, and an issue in Franklin's 1936 re-election campaign, also written about by Hoffman, which I didn't get a chance to cite. I was doing this work at an editathon, experienced editors seemed to think it was worthy of mention...Pshaughness (talk) 20:57, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

@Pshaughness: It would appear that I mistook a typo for a test edit. I self-reverted. -- I dream of horses  If you reply here, please ping me by adding {{U|I dream of horses}} to your message  (talk to me) (My edits) @ 21:21, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Uncle & Cousin

The website Familypedia: http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt_(1831-1879) shows that Eleanor's father was the brother of President Theodore Roosevelt, therefore, Teddy was her uncle. I guess Familypedia could be wrong, but since their info is consistent in more than one place (the father's info, the son's info, the subject's info, etc) in more than one form, it appears accurate.

DwaineET (talk) 17:16, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

It's already been noted within this article that Theodore was Eleanor's uncle, but what are you getting at with "cousin" in the thread title? Snuggums (talk / edits) 19:40, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 October 2018

Eleanor Roosevelt middle School https://roosevelt.dbqschools.org/ Duehr576 (talk) 16:17, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: This is not intended to be a comprehensive list of schools named after her. Schools in the article should have an existing Wikipedia article prior to being added here. See WP:GNG and WP:WTAF. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 16:30, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 October 2018

Add Eleanor Roosevelt middle school to the list of schools because i go there and they have a website and it is in Dubuque Iowa and is part of dbq schools distict Jackaroe1001 (talk) 16:20, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: This is not intended to be a comprehensive list of schools named after her. Schools in the article should have an existing Wikipedia article prior to being added here. See WP:GNG and WP:WTAF. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 16:30, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Correction to reference to FDR Presidential Library

Current line 

The Franklin D. Roosevelt Presidential Library and Museum opened on April 12, 1946,

Correction = The Franklin D. Roosevelt Presidential Library and Museum opened on June 30th, 1941. The Home of Franklin Roosevelt National Historic Site, run by the National Park Service, was opened on April 12, 1946. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eznewsman (talk • contribs) 19:01, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

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