Talk:Feu (food)

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Untitled[edit]

Really? This is just Vietnamese pho, introduced by Vietnamese immigrants. Most of these restaurants in Laos are in fact owned by Vietnamese. There are like a gazillion Vietnamese in Laos. - PBASH607 (talk) 02:13, 27 April 2013‎ (UTC)[reply]

Please keep your prejudices to yourself. Claiming that "most" restaurants in Laos are owned by Vietnamese would be like claiming "most" restaurants in Vietnam are owned by Chinese or that "most" restaurants in Thailand are owned by Lao and Chinese. Those statements are simply untrue, so please refrain from using the words "in fact". - Wikicentral (talk) 11:32, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nominated for deletion? How pathetic! It seems like the cultural warrior who created this food article is still upset that Laos Cuisine is heavily influenced by Vietnamese immigrants. That fact is not surprised at all since the current capital of Laos was mostly settled by Vietnamese and Chinese immigrants since the French colonial period. Let's see, pho, som moo, grilled som moo, moo yaw, banh xeo, banh cuon, rice crackers, rice paper... These are all Vietnamese foods. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.129.62.203 (talk) 16:04, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Vietnamese are ethnic minorities in Laos including the capital just like how the Lao are ethnic minorities in Vietnam. More Chinese people settled in Vietnam than in Laos, so why mention the Chinese? If you're suggesting that Laos has become Chinese, then Vietnam is the most Chinese of them all due to its long history of Chinese migrations into Vietnam and past rule over Vietnam. The Lao also settled in Thailand and its capital called Bangkok, but this doesn't necessarily mean that the Lao make up the majority. Also, pho, banh xeo, and banh cuon are Vietnamese foods, though their origins are questionable, but this article is neither about those dishes nor Vietnamese cuisine, so why mention them? No one is arguing with you regarding those dishes so you should mention them in the Vietnamese cuisine article, but they are not even mentioned in this article so please leave the Vietnamese-centric battle out of this article. - Wikicentral (talk) 11:32, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To the user whose IP is 71.129.62.203, please don't turn this into a cultural war. Stews and noodle soups are common in Southeast Asia. Laos, Thailand, Cambodia, Malaysia and many other Asian countries have beef stews and beef noodle soups. It is rather pretentious to assume that all Southeast Asian dishes originated in Vietnam. Anyone who takes the time to learn about Vietnamese cuisine will have learned that Vietnam has adopted dishes from neighboring Laos, China, Cambodia, and even a non-direct neighbor like Thailand. Preserving fish/meats with sticky rice originated along the Mekong river and predominantly in northern Laos, which is why "som moo" (soured pork) is Lao just like "som pa" (soured fish) is Lao because sticky rice is used to promote fermentation. It is very likely that this dish was introduced to Vietnam from Laos just like how curries were introduced to Vietnam from both Laos and Cambodia. Vietnam has access to the ocean, so preserving fish/meat with sticky rice did not originate in Vietnam but in a country that needed this preservation technique such as Laos. Even from the study of human migration into Asia from Africa, one will find that huge Vietnamese populations actually originated from Laos into Vietnam so it is not surprising that there are Lao foods in Vietnam that have been adopted by the Vietnamese and incorporated as their own Vietnamese foods. However, this article is for a Lao stew known in English as "Feu", a Western spelling that was adopted from the French language. Noodles may be added to this stew just like how noodles (pasta) may be added to the French pot-au-feu. Due to some similarities between the Lao stew and the French pot-au-feu, the French word, feu, is used when translating the Lao name into English, though the dishes themselves are not necessarily the same or identical. Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam all used to be colonies of France, so it is not surprising that all three countries have adopted some French cooking techniques. However, just become some chefs in Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam may have incorporated French cooking techniques for certain dishes does not mean that those dishes in Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam should now be classified as the same dishes because there are chefs in those countries who still make local dishes using local techniques rather than French techniques, which takes away the similarities between many dishes in Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam. Remember that Thailand and Malaysia also have beef stews and beef noodle soups, but they were more influenced by China rather than France. The beef noodle soup in Thailand uses the Chinese name even when spelling the name in English, whereas the Lao stew uses the French name when spelling the name in English. Beef stews and beef noodle soups did not originate solely in Vietnam because Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, and Malaysia all have their own beef stews and beef noodle soups that originated in their respective countries. The Lao language is a tonal language, so not only do the letters determine the meaning of a word, but also the tone used to pronounce the word. However, the English language is a non-tonal language, which takes away one of the major cues that helps to determine the meaning of a word in an Asian tonal language. So in English, one typically depends on the spelling of the word to determine the meaning. Therefore, "Feu" and "Pho" are obviously not the same word in English because they do not share a single common letter. If tones existed in English, then "Feu" and "Pho" are even more different because the Lao word, feu, uses a neutral tone, whereas the Vietnamese word, pho, uses a rising tone. So different spellings and different tones make them completely different words. And also, please keep in mind that feu in Laos is a stew first and foremost, but noodles may be added instead of rice as an energy source from carbs. In Vietnam, pho always has noodles and is not considered a stew. The toppings are different as well and so are several ingredients that are used to make the Lao stew and the Vietnamese noodle soup. They are not the same dish. However, some chefs in Laos and Vietnam may have adopted culinary techniques and spices from China and/or France, which may result in both dishes having some shared ingredients, but using culinary techniques and spices from China and/or France are optional. Laos, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, and Malaysia all use very similar ingredients, but this doesn't mean that all dishes in those countries that have shared ingredients should be classified as the same dishes. The balance between the ingredients and seasonings, the inclusion of some unique ingredients, how the dishes are prepared, and the differences in toppings that are added to the stews and noodle soups make them rightfully different dishes in all of those countries. Beef stews and beef noodle soups of Southeast Asian countries rightfully belong to those individual countries. Beef, water, and optional rice noodles are three basic ingredients that exist in several stews and soups spanning across Laos, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, and Malaysia. Therefore, please do not turn common Southeast Asian dishes and shared ingredients into a Vietnamese-centric battle. - Wikicentral (talk) 11:32, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Let's see how many Vietnamese live in Laos? A gazillion. Let's see how many Laotians live in Vietnam? None? Vietnamese cuisine's influence on Laotian cuisine? Lots of influence. Laotian cuisine's influence on Vietnamese cuisine? None. Som moo, the red pickled sour pork came from Vietnam, known as "nem" in Vietnamese. The pork sausage wrapped in banana leaves and steamed also came from Vietnam, where it is known as "cha." Rice paper, fresh rice paper with pork and woodear mushroom, deep-fried rice paper rolls also came from Vietnam. Too many to count. Back in colonial days, the French had to bring Vietnamese chefs to Laos because Laotian cuisine was just not good. Vietnamese have been migrating to Laos for the last 200+ years, hence the heavy influence of Vietnamese cuisine in Laotian cuisine. In fact, Vietnamese cuisine's influence on Laotian cuisine is much greater than that of Chinese cuisine on Laotian cuisine. Wikicentral sounds a lot like yummyrice on yelp. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the same person. Just like Wikicentral, yummyrice also gets all worked up everytime someone reminds her that Vietnamese cuisine heavily influences Laotian cuisine. After all, There are like a million or more Vietnamese in Laos where the total population is just about five million people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.129.53.180 (talk) 16:19, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wikicentral has been going into Vietnamese cuisine's wiki pages, deleting stuff talking about Vietnamese food. How pathetic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.129.53.180 (talk) 16:34, 1 May 2013 (UTC) Wikicentral is definitely "yummyrice" on chowhound. Definitely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.129.53.180 (talk) 17:05, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It seems like Wikicentral is waging a cultural war on Vietnamese. He or she has removed all references to Vietnamese cuisine's obvious influence o laotian cuisine in the "Lao cuisine" wiki page. That is just sad. It's quite dishonest really. Laotian tend to be very honest, but there's always exceptions, I rectkon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.129.53.180 (talk) 01:52, 3 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There seems to be some hostility brought to this talk page by someone who has decided to wage a cultural war against Lao cuisine due to that person's Vietnamese-centric views. Vietnam is not the only country in Asia that has noodle soups. Europeans also have stews and their own forms of noodle soups made with pasta, so what is uniquely Vietnamese about adding noodles/pasta to a seasoned liquid in a bowl? There are descendants of Lao people in Vietnam and anyone who has studied the Vietnamese language in depth knows that the Vietnamese language has been influenced by certain Lao dialects because Lao people migrated to Vietnam hundreds of years ago, which also includes their culinary traditions. The Lao have not only influenced Vietnam's language, but also introduced their curries, meat preservation techniques, spicy soups, fruit salads, and rice-based dishes to Vietnam. China, Laos, and Cambodia have all influenced Vietnam's cuisine, but this food article is not about Vietnam. - Wikicentral (talk) 11:46, 3 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If we allow that sensationalist to continue to spread his Vietnamese centrism toward a Lao article, I wonder if that person will wage a cultural war against Cambodia, Malaysia, Thailand, and China next? Those countries all have stews and noodle soups. It is widely accepted in Asia that noodles originated in China. Most importantly, Lao people originated from China before settling in present Laos, so combining noodles with a stew or soup was something the Lao brought with them from China when they migrated down to Laos. I'm sorry to say this, but Vietnam is not at the center of the universe so please stop spamming this article with Vietnamese centrism. - Wikicentral (talk) 11:46, 3 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Due to French, Chinese, and Austronesian influences in several Southeast Asian countries, there may be some words that may appear to sound similar possibly due to a listener who can't differentiate tones in Asian tonal languages or the words may be cognates of words that may have been adopted from a mutual, foreign language such as French or English. Vietnam neither owns the English alphabet nor the French alphabet just like how it does not own the copyrights to water and noodles that are used to make the stews and noodle soups of Asia including those of Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, and China. The English language is non-tonal so one cannot assume that tonal words, feu and pho, refer to the same thing especially when they don't even share the same English letters in their names, which would be like assuming that Jim and Gym refer to the same thing based on simple phonetics and excluding tones. This article is about feu, a Lao stew of meat and vegetables. It's not about a Vietnamese noodle soup called pho, so please do not wage a cultural war to promote one's own Vietnamese-centric views. - Wikicentral (talk) 11:46, 3 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Blah blah, all I see is denial. Wikicentral is a lot like the Holocaust deniers, trying to fight the good fight by erasing history and ignoring evidence, waging war against Vietnamese

Pot-au-feu[edit]

The pot-au-feu etymology strikes again... Pho#From French describes how Western sources are keen to credit French with both pho and the Vietnamese word for it, despite superficial and historical inconsistencies in that explanation. Can anyone find a rigorous source for the pot-au-feu etymology or, better yet, a rigorous source for the word's actual etymology? As with pho, it might be necessary to distinguish between the word's etymology and the dish's origin. – Minh Nguyễn ^💬 18:59, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]