Talk:List of alternative metal artists

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Evanesence[edit]

Today I've come to be sure that the average wikipedia user has absolutely no knowledge of music whatsoever. Evanesence is not even vaguely close to metal. In any way. At all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.157.55.2 (talk) 05:58, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The table[edit]

I'm sure you all think it's lovely, but I'm colourblind, making it completely illegible to me (green and orange are the same colour to me) I'll have a look, but if I can't do it could someone make it blue/red or something?

Table added[edit]

ok i realised that this page was nearly unusable, so i copied the table from the nu metal page, placed all of the appropriate bands in the table and now what is needed is for somone to fill up the table with appropriate infomation. and also this makes the page far easier to edit. 18/1/2007


Making this page into a table[edit]

Somebody should really make this article more like the table in List of Nu metal musical groups It makes it a lot easier to look at and find out what bands are currently still formed, what albums are in the alternative metal style, etc.

That's a good suggestion. maxcap 11:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This page could do with some work[edit]

I suggested a while ago that this page should be a table. I checked up on it now and it's a timeline. Not just a timeline, but a timeline that's not all that easy on the eyes. If the timeline REALLY must stay, I suggest making the font size of the band names larger, because it's hard to read. Also there should be a key instead of text saying that orange means discontinued bands and green is currently formed. It would also be good to have a colour for Hiatus instead of the text hiatus.

However, my major concern is that there is little information on each band. I'm not saying there should be a 1 paragraph bio on each one, just if thier genre is alternative metal(which I will now refer to as A.M.), arguably A.M., or if thier was a time period in which they where A.M. Some of the bands are Arguably A.M. and perhaps shouldn't be on this page or get a mention that they aren't entirely A.M. Take KoЯn for example. they are mainly Nu Metal except for in thier latest album, See You on the Other Side. So perhaps it shoud show that they where arguably A.M. from 1994-2004 and moved to Industrial Metal (?) in 2005.

If the timeline really needs to stay, I suggets it goes on it's own page, Timeline of Alternative Metal Artists

211.28.127.73 11:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)Tim[reply]

I say it gets changed to a normal list, 'cause I can't see a damn thing due to 4 freakin errors with it. 4! Why can't it be a list anyway? The Wretched 10:16, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm coll with it being a list, preferably divided into sections, or possibly a table with details (i.e. Metallica being an alternative metal band in the Load/reLoad era, but not earlier). --Switch 06:47, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't care if it's a list, I was protective of it at first because it took me a while to do, but if some one wants to redo it go for it. I did hopefully fix the "errors" by increasing the height of the graph. maxcap 19:22, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Killing Joke[edit]

Many sources, including allmusic, consider Killing Joke alternative metal, at least on their last three albums. You can't tell me The Jesus Lizard is an alternative metal band, but Killing Joke isn't. I don't know who took down Killing Joke, but this needs to be fixed. They're also "classed" as post-punk, industrial rock, and according to someone who edited it last time, goth rock. Citations were provided. Fix this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.245.86.14 (talk) 04:40, 25 September 2012 (UTC) They were removed because they had no source, add a source calling them such and they can stay. — Preceding unsigned comment added by I call the big one bitey (talk • contribs) 22:14, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Three Days Grace[edit]

...Seriously? They don't even vaguely resemble alternative metal. They're a post-grunge/pop punk band. Grah. And Lostprophets? What? I dunno guys. --Switch 05:52, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was just reading what the articles say... íslenskur fellibylur #12 (samtal) 21:35, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Lostprophets were arguably at least sort of Alt-Metal on The Fake Sound of Progress and Start Something. 128.143.136.75 (talk) 21:46, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

three days grace is alt-metal, and not pop punk. they have never been pop punk, but alt rock. but i think bands like staind, chevelle, and breaking benjamin also have a place here. chevelle and breaking benjamin were originally here, but were deleted...

staind and breaking benjamin are more post-grunge than alt. metal, but I do have to agree with chevelle being alt. metal--Ilikepie714 02:20, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Get the hell off the internet. Breaking Benjamin has no resemblance to Metal. In fact, this whole article should just be deleted, because every single little bugger who listens to distorted guitars thinks that qualifies it as metal or hardrock.

Also, Three Days Grace has no resemblance to punk, but for those of you assholes who are acting like TDG is "hardcore" or some garbage, you should be fully aware that it exists as a mainstream band, and therefore it is. This doesn't make it a good or bad band, but it sure as hell doesn't make them metal (of course, we could get into the corporate aspects, but I think Lars Ulrich essentially proved you don't have to be hardcore to be in this kind of a genre) 75.157.55.2 (talk) 06:01, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Gosh, somebody had to go and delete all that stuff. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean you have to ruin somebody else hard work. Red black 07 23:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pop Punk? HAHAHAHAHAHA. Staind, 3DG, and Breaking Benjamin do sound metaly at times and are both alt-metal bands. These bands can be both alt-metal and post-grunge at the same time you know! Pop Punk is stuff like Green Day, Blink 182, Sum 41...that stuff. Maplejet 03:59, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Slipknot[edit]

Could someone please add Slipknot. I'd do it but I'm not confident enough with coding to do it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.255.121.136 (talk) 02:14, 31 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

i don't know how knowledgeable this is but i know Slipknot did break up as it shows, but im almsot positive they got back together recently, they just aren't touring.any1 wanna check that for me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.2.197.188 (talk) 04:54, 16 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"arguably considered by some"?[edit]

What is that bollocks? Let's just include every single hard rock band ever, eh? ~Switch t 02:57, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tips for criteria[edit]

  1. Read the article on alternative metal. Does x band fit that description? If not, don't add them.
  2. Try to use sources other than Wikipedia.
  3. Some sources do not distinguish alternative metal from nu metal - for example, All Music Guide includes it as a subtype with no discrimination (Linkin Park are identified simply as alternative metal). Wikipedia, however, considers the two separate for reasons of clarity. Make sure the source distinguishes before including bands here rather than on the corresponding list of nu metal bands.
  4. Some rules of thumb (though breakable) for telling alternative metal from nu metal bands are:
4a. Alternative metal bands are mostly from the 80s, while their followers in the 90s are mostly nu metal.
4b. Alternative metal bands do not identify as "metal," while nu metal bands do. Alternative metal bands are more likely to align themselves with alternative rock or indie rock.
4c. Alternative metal bands have a very diverse sound, while nu metal is more homogeneous.
4d. Post-grunge bands are very unlikely to cross into alternative metal, and much more likely to cross into nu metal. Similarly, grunge bands are unlikely to cross into nu metal, more likely to cross into alternative metal. Examples: Breaking Benjamin and Soundgarden.
  1. Have fun trying not to break WP:OR! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SwitChar (talk • contribs) 03:52, 31 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]
Helpful guidelines overall, thanks for posting them. I had to read 4d. a few times before I got it, but it makes sense now. --Brainninja (talk) 05:49, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Seether[edit]

The band is alternative metal so please stop removing them just because you don't enjoy their music, or whatever your reason is. Please and Thank You. Red black 07 00:21, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm removing them because they're not alternative metal. Please read the article. Seether are post-grunge/nu metal. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SwitChar (talk • contribs) 03:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]
No sorry to dissapoint yoo but they are alternative metal. They are post grunge/alternative metal. Nothing close to nu-metal.
Seether is alternative metal! If you have actually heard a song by them (other than 'Broken') you would know that.
Well, how could I possibly argue with that? Sorry, but no dice. Try reading the articles on nu metal and alternative metal again. ~Switch t c g 17:36, 9 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm why don't you look at the nu metal article yourself and you would know they are not in that genre. And if you have actually heard their music you would know that they were alternative metal. No use in arguing because your obviously not willing to even here me out or check out a song to know their genre. You are basically just keeping bands you like and taking off the ones you don't. Red black 07 02:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've contributed plenty to both of those articles and they're both on my watchlist;I know what they say. You don't even know which bands I like, so you can't use that to try to discredit my efforts here. Look at the guidelines above, as well as in the alternative metal article: They're a new millenium-era band; post-grunge, not grunge; taking influence mostly from grunge, later alternative metal and early nu metal bands; not noted for their experimentation or eclecticism; with a fairly standard sound. They're not alternative metal. They're nu metal. I can't "here [sic] you out", because you're not offering any arguments or evidence (By the way, allmusic does not count as evidence. You're just repeating your opinion and claiming I'm ignorant because I don't agree. That's not how to get your way here. ~Switch t c g 13:47, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No no, I agree with SWITCH. Seether is not Alternative Metal (though I disagree on the Nu metal bit... "Fuck it" was the only song bearing vague resemblance). They're definitely more grunge-like.

What do you mean by 'all music doesn't count as evidence' linking it to the papa roach discussion page. I didn't understand that. But sure I understand why you are not putting them there and at this moment it just doesn't mattter to me if they are there or not. Its not like its the end of the world. Genres of bands and artists are usually various depending on the person who is listening to it anyway. So I guess this conversation will just be deemed over.. oh and I didn't call you ignorant.. Sorry if it came off that way because of how I kept on complaining about Seether not being on the list. Red black 07 03:32, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What I meant by "allmusic does not count as evidence" and linking to Talk:Papa Roach was to point out what I've already said on that page. If someone is going to provide evidence that a band is alternative metal, they shouldn't use the All Music Guide, because it doesn't distinguish between alternative metal and nu metal, but Wikipedia does. But it's all cool. ~Switch t c g 03:46, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oh ok I get what you mean. But ya I never use there anyway, it doesn't give that much info anyway.Red black 07 04:41, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'd really say this article needs some work[edit]

Its missing alot of bands that easily fit this category. Incubus, Chevelle, Disturbed...hell, Soundgarden is on the bottom table but not on the graph timeline, why? I know they were on there a while back, but they arent there now. These bands undeniably belong here. Listen to Incubus' first three albums, Chevelle's first two, Disturbed's Believe and Badmotorfinger and/or Superunknown (obviously Soundgarden in case someone doesnt know). Just because a band's sound gets softer later in their career doesnt mean they arent metal. *glares at Alice In Chains and NIN* Also, the argument that "a band doesnt belong here because they are Nu Metal" is nil. The Alt-Metal page even lists Nu Metal as a subgenre.

Also, Im not sure whether A Perfect Circle classifies as Alt Metal. And if they do you could probably argue(with a fairly valid point) that Three Days Grace, 10 Years, Breaking Benjamin and Seether are also Alt Metal. In reality they arent. Thus being my point as to why APC isnt alt metal. Defintiely more of an Alt Rock. I hadnt listened to them until recently so I hadnt refuted it earlier, but Ive had Mer de Noms and Thirteenth Step for afew months now and theyre not in the least bit heavy. Just because it has Maynard and Twiggy doesnt mean that its metal.

Another point would possibly be Smashing Pumpkins. They have some pretty hard songs on Mellon Collie and have always had a tinge of Industrial in them since Adore. They might not be as heavy as say, Tool or Deftones, but they do have their heavy songs(Quiet, Where Boys Fear to Tread, Bodies, Zero, Bullet w/ Butterfly Wings, Heavy Metal Machine, Everlasting Gaze, Dross, etc). Theyre just more influenced by Post-Punk and Goth Rock and this tends to make their songs slower and less heavy sometimes. The Alternative Metal page does even mention bands like this under the other styles section.

idk, the whole Alt rock vs. Alt Metal thing gets a bit out of control sometimes. Categorizing is so complicated that even those lines begin to blur. Lamentingvampire09 04:58, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Notable albums[edit]

Why are all of the artists' albums listed under notable albums? I just think it should list the artists' most well-known albums and/or albums by the artist that are acclaimed. Just a suggestion, though. --Ilikepie714 21:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A layout comment[edit]

So, I'm sure that whoever originally made/updated the timeline put a lot of effort into it, but it's pretty unreadable and not altogether useful. I'd vote for changing this to the style of most of the other 'list of .... artists' pages; if people care about the active periods of different artists, they can look on the appropriate artists' pages. Daedae 01:27, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ehi[edit]

there are lot of important(or not) bands on wikipedia which are tagged alternative metal... is there a way to find all of them?

List Of Bands That Need To Be Added[edit]

Submersed Incubus Nothingface Dark New Day Pressure 4-5

I don't know about the others, but Incubus has never really been Alternative Metal. They had Nu Metal elements back in the day, but they've been very Alternative Rock oriented for the last few albums, with Make Yourself and Morning View being the real transition period. --Brainninja (talk) 05:21, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chevelle belongs here, I think, due to their page listing them as Alternative Metal, and because they are mentioned in the Alternative Metal article. I'll add them, as there has yet been a dedicated discussion about their exclusion. --Brainninja (talk) 05:21, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

After doing a bit more research, there's more citation for Chevelle being classified as Alternative Rock. At the same time, though, I'd argue that there's a bit of crossover between the genres, particularly in Chevelle's case (due to their heavy sound). There's certainly discussion to be had, if anyone wished. --Brainninja (talk) 06:03, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Feeder[edit]

You must be bloody joking. I am removing them. They are just alt. rock and aren't even close to alt. metal. ''I Am The Master Of All Thunder'' (talk) 09:07, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I'm removing NIN as they are Alt./Indst. rock. ''I Am The Master Of All Thunder'' (talk) 12:01, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alt. metal artists[edit]

What about THESE? ''I Am The Master Of All Thunder'' (talk) 12:27, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Crush 40[edit]

What about Crush 40? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.215.85.148 (talk) 15:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Table colours[edit]

Could we please keep the colours very seperate, I couldn't distinguish between the orange and green, so I changed the orange to grey. Feel free to change the colour again, as long as it's something clearly different. Esteffect (talk) 09:49, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Whites Stripes?[edit]

I really must ask, doesn't anyone else think the White Stripes might qualify as Alternative Metal? Someone earlier mentioned that Alt metal bands are more likely to call themselves alternative or indie rock... The White Stripes definitely have metal elements in their music, but are identified as indie rock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.213.8.103 (talk) 06:26, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, no, no, no, no and (just in case it wasn't clear) no. White Stripes have nothing metal about them at all. This isn't hate, I like a lot of their material. But it's about as metal as Kaiser Chiefs. Prophaniti (talk) 23:29, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can't go along with them having nothing metal about them. While not "metal", their style was definitely heavily influenced by metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.213.8.103 (talk) 11:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of the table[edit]

Unless someone can come up with a good reason for it, I'm planning to remove the coloured timeline/table. It's out of date, hard to edit without messing it up, and unnecessary. Other band list pages haven't got it, and if people want to know those things they can go look up the bands themselves. Prophaniti (talk) 23:40, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Links To Individual Albums?[edit]

It seems to me that it wouldn't be a bad idea to link the individual albums for each artist…if there IS a reason not to (ex. the massive block of blue text the article would become), I'd like to hear it. I think this is worthy of consideration, at least. --Brainninja (talk) 05:33, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds fine to me. True, there'd be a lot of links within it, but I can't see a specific reason why not. Prophaniti (talk) 19:16, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Post-Grunge...[edit]

I look at this list and I have to think... There is a differnece between Alt metal and post-grunge. I don't think Breaking Benjamin, Staind or Three Days Grace belong here... Alt metal artist have something tha makes them different from other metal artists... Post-grunge artist all sound very similar (an army of Creed-clones, so to speak)... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.169.42.35 (talk) 15:54, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Quite correct, and indeed, most people need to make a distinction between post-grunge and alt. metal, there is a fairly big difference. But genre discussions need to be kept to the pages of the bands in question really, and the band pages changed before this one is. Prophaniti (talk) 20:53, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A band can be both Alt metal and post-grunge. I don't care if Breaking Benjamin is on the list, because their page has them listed as post-grunge and alt rock, but if you look at the pages for Three Days Grace and Staind they are listed as alt metal on their own pages, they should either be put back on the list, or alt metal should be removed from their pages. I am not sure whether they should be classified as alt metal or not, but Wikipedia should at least try to be consistent throughout articles. 24.148.26.74 (talk) 17:20, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Shinedown, Alter Bridge, Halestorm Saliva, and Seether are all also listed as alt metal on their pages but are not on the list. 24.148.26.74 (talk) 17:40, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Are there sources to these claims?Curb Chain (talk) 02:19, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Verifiability[edit]

This article does not have any sources, and is not verifiable per WP:VERIFY. Ndenison talk 13:44, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The sources are on or should be on the indevidual band pages.96.244.79.191 (talk) 20:31, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]


I agree with 96.244.79.191. The place for sources is on band pages. After all, the band pages are the places where a band's genre is debated and discussed, we couldn't possibly do all that here, so likewise it makes sense for sources to be dealt with there, rather than clog up this page and have to constantly worry about synching them all up. The band list pages should simply reflect what's given elsewhere on wikipedia. If a band's genre is altered on their page, so should this list be. For this reason, I'm going to remove the "sources needed" tag at the top of this page, as this isn't the place for it as far as I see. If someone disagrees, let's discuss it here. Prophaniti (talk) 20:52, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sources for bands on list.[edit]

The following bands that are already on the list are listed as alt metal on AllMusicGuide. If someone who has better citation knowledge than me could site them, this would still a lot of band controversy.

Alice In Chains Breaking Benjamin Chevelle Deftones Disturbed Evanescence Faith No More Flyleaf Korn Lostprophets Linkin Park Living Colour Marilyn Manson Melvins Mudvayne Nine Inch Nails Primus Rage Against the Machine Sevendust Soundgarden System of a Down Three Days Grace Tool White Zombie —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.213.11.162 (talk) 14:03, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As stated above, the individual band pages are the places for genre discussions, not this page. This page should simply reflect the band pages. Incidentally, it might not be quite as stilling as it seems, given allmusic's vast unreliability on the subject of metal genres/bands. Prophaniti (talk) 14:55, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, almost no bands have actual citations (for their genre) on the pages either, so what is said on their wiki page means nothing. VolvonDoom (talk) 10:03, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, most of the bands currently on the list do have citations for their genre, because I've been removing ones that don't and adding sources for those that have them. Regardless, any bands that you or anyone else feels should be added need to have their main pages done properly first, before being added here. Prophaniti (talk) 11:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Along those lines of thinking, why isn't Helmet included on the list (they are even mentioned in the article on alternative metal, making sure all of the artists mentioned there are on the list would be a good start for cleaning up this list...). VolvonDoom (talk) 03:48, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Grinspoon[edit]

I've added the band Grinspoon to the table. They are an alternative metal band little know outside of Australia. Check out thier wikipedia or allmusic page for more information. Here are some examples of their sound if anyone wants confirmation: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=GqGunIK9M00 ... http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=1zsNJWe2CB0 ... http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=hS3FClATfwk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.219.109.196 (talk) 06:09, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

12 Stones[edit]

I think they should be added to the list 201.80.113.164 (talk) 14:58, 26 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Find a source, then talk. 71.179.18.152 (talk) 18:50, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Papa Roach[edit]

Papa roach need to be added. I spose the scourses are the same as those on their wiki page... check it out or whatever. Yeah... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.217.148.40 (talk) 20:53, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nickelback[edit]

Nickelback should be added. First of all alt metal is listed as one of Nickelback's genres. And now wikipedia is saying that I am vandalizing wikipedia. Someone please help! -Preceding comment added by Aceman97 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aceman97 (talk • contribs) 00:32, 25 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Alt-Metal is one of the last things I would describe Nickelback, but since I saw it was heavily sourced. Sorry for that. Side Note: Make sure you put it in alphabetical order next time.--猛禽22 •• 01:03, 25 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Don't worry I haven't exactly got the welcome wagon from wikipedia but can I add Nickelback under the list? I'm not to happy about them being called alt metal but it seems fair that they be on the list. By the way what musicdo you think Nickelback is? Just wondering. -Preceding comment added by Aceman97

nickelback are nothing even remotely resembling alt rock/metal. please remove it.

If it doesn't have a source you can remove it.Curb Chain (talk) 02:17, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Notable albums[edit]

In it's current form, does the "notable albums" part of the table really add anything? I can see the intention, to help differentiate this from the category, but what's the point when it just lists all of a band's albums? Would it not be better to have some kind of criteria for this: album sales, reviews, or just accetped significance?

(I note we've already had a section on this, but it was nearly two years ago and with no replies) Prophaniti (talk) 12:41, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, still no replies. I can't think of much of a way to improve the "notable albums" part. We could go with something like album sales or overall review scores, or particular albums that are classed as alt. metal if not all of a band's discography are, but we'd need something. So unless someone can propose something to improve that bit, I'll remove it from the table. Prophaniti (talk) 18:46, 25 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

List of who not to remove.[edit]

It can be said that the of alternative metal are Primus, Faith No More and Jane's Addiction. However, these artists are constantly removed from the list. There are numerous sources that confirm the "alt-metalness" of these artists (Allmusic, Ecyclo. Metallum, etc.) but they continue to be removed from the list. I hereby request that a list (similar to the one on the list of gothic rock artists page) be placed at the top of this discussion page present artists already agreed to be alt metal and that should be removed or not removed. The three above mentioned bands would be a good place to start for the "Do Not Remove", as all three are mentioned in the Alternative Metal article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.213.11.6 (talk) 15:37, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's very simple: if an artist is added without a good source, it can be removed. If it is added with good sourcing on it's page (bearing in mind any issues of source weight) then it should be on here too. Also, to note: encyclopedia metallum is not considered a good source. Prophaniti (talk) 23:01, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
But AllMusic is a good source, isn't it? So Linkin Park shouldn't be removed because AllMusic says that they're alternative metal!
So do not remove it =)--95.112.200.7 (talk) 19:40, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Flyleaf[edit]

Flyleaf is not on hiatus. They just finished recording their sophomore album and they're starting to tour soon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.88.252.1 (talk) 17:44, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fightstar[edit]

Like Papa Roach, they have citation on their page so... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.44.17 (talk) 11:48, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Eyes Set To Kill[edit]

I've also added this band, as they tooi have sources on their wiki page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.44.17 (talk) 10:06, 25 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Linkin Park[edit]

Please do not delet Linkin park off that list! It is sourced with a allmusic source, which is used very often in this list so it should be good enough. So please don't delet it.--LuffyGear2 (talk) 11:41, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Linkin Park emerged at the point where nu-metal became the sound of mainstream rock; maybe there would've been something "alternative" about them in 1990, but all of the elements of their sound had been so thoroughly assimilated into the popular culture by way of radio and MTV by 2000 that claiming them as "alternative" seems absurd, no matter what Allmusic says. And they're not really metal either. Use your ears and your common sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.244.165.210 (talk) 02:40, 12 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Alternative Metal/Allmusic.[edit]

Well, I guess I will start this argument. In a way, I'm actually for 86.146.156.162's edits. A lot of these bands are not entirely or even not alternative metal just because Allmusic said they were. I've seen a lot of doom/sludge metal bands that were classified with the alt. metal tag from Allmusic.

My suggestion is that we only add the bands that primarily play alt. metal. I just feel very uncomfortable that bands listed with one source from Allmusic with the alt. metal tag lurking around somewhere, instantly makes them alt. metal.--猛禽22 •• 22:34, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Move to List of alternative metal bands[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was no move. Consensus at this time appears to support a page move, but the target is disputed. Please make this request again (or move it yourselves) if a suitable target gains consensus. PeterSymonds (talk) 09:47, 7 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

List of alternative metal artists → List of alternative metal bands —  Relisted. GrooveDog FOREVER 01:31, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

List of alternative metal artists → List of alternative metal bands or List of alternative metal musicians or List of alternative metal musical groups See List of emo artists for reason. Munci (talk) 21:33, 15 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]


This centralized discussion covers List of emo artists, List of dance-punk artists and List of alternative metal artists.
  • Oppose "bands" as title. Though it currently consists only of bands, there's no reason it couldn't also include individuals, solo musicians, etc. I don't find the term "artists" confusing in this sense, because it's preceded by "emo" which is a genre of music and thus not easily confused with other forms of "art". No one would assume that it meant a visual medium such as painting, as "emo" is a music genre and not any other form of art. The same reasoning applies to your other proposals: there's no such thing as "alternative metal painting" or "dance punk sculpture", so there's very little ambiguity in the use of the term "artist". --IllaZilla (talk) 22:39, 15 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment Your argument as to why artist is not confusing might would hold true if everyone knew what emo was. There are people who don't know emo is a music genre, particularly those outside the US and UK or over 40. Munci (talk) 01:33, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Which is why we wikilink the term emo in the opening sentence and state "This is a list of notable musical artists who have been referred to or have had their music described as emo." If that doesn't alleviate any possible confusion, then I'm not sure what will. We expect our readers to actually read the articles, at least the leads, in order to understand what said article is about. Otherwise we'd pre-emptively disambiguate every single article title under the assumption that our readers are either morons or selectively illiterate. --IllaZilla (talk) 05:21, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Good explanation. Munci (talk) 16:09, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would support changing it to [[List of [genre] musicians]] per the reasons Munci gave. Using "musicians" would also not exclude solo musicians. Timmeh 23:18, 15 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - not all possible entries in this category will be bands; some will be solo artists, others duos. As IllaZilla notes, the fact that "artist" has more than one definition is irrelevant here, as only one definition is logically applicable. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 01:06, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Musicians: It seems more appropriate than calling it both bands or artists. With bands, it would seem inaccurate, as with other arguments claimed, there are solo artists present.--猛禽22 •• 02:19, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alright, there hasn't been any discussion for a while, and there are a couple of comments supporting using "musicians" and none opposing it. Therefore, I'll rename the pages to use the clearer "musicians" unless someone voices opposition in the next day or two. Timmeh 22:50, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    There are only 2 comments in support of "musicians", and 2 in favor of leaving it as "artists". There is clearly no consensus for a move at this time. --IllaZilla (talk) 00:17, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Nobody has made an argument against "musicians" yet. I believe it is a less ambiguous word to use than "artists". If you oppose it, some reasoning would certainly be appreciated. Timmeh 01:09, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    See my explanation above. "Artist" is the most common nomenclature to use in these situations and there's little to no confusion about its intended meaning. Whereas, to me at least, "musicians" implies a list of individuals, "artists" can be individuals or groups. That may just be my own interpretation, though. Maybe we should post a note at some of the related Wikiprojects to draw more comments here. --IllaZilla (talk) 04:42, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    For the most common nomenclature in this situation, I would look at what similar articles are called. There doesn't seem to be any consensus at Category:Lists of musicians by genre, 'artist' and 'musician' are used equally commonly as far as I can tell (haven't actually added them up). At Category:Lists of rock musicians by subgenre, on the other hand, 'bands' is by far the most common. 'Artists' and 'musicians' both equally well imply individual or group as far as what I'm used to goes. Munci (talk) 18:23, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Munci's right. Neither "musician" nor "artist" implies that the subjects are individuals any more or less than the other. Neither term is used predominantly in these types of articles, and musician is a more precise word to use to describe these acts. Timmeh 21:15, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • How about List of (genre) musical artists? GrooveDog FOREVER 01:26, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Musical artist" and "musician" mean the same thing. I don't see why we should use the longer term. Timmeh 02:22, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

"Biggest hit" column[edit]

Is this seriously necessary? --Dylan620 (contribs, logs) 02:01, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, it certainly is not. It should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AlecTrevelyan402 (talk • contribs) 13:52, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request from Craig 2ndSideMade, 13 June 2010[edit]

{{editsemiprotected}} Article: List of alternative metal bands

CKY's hit song is not "99 Quiet Bitter Beings". This is completely incorrect. The actual hit single is "96 Quite Bitter Beings". Craig 2ndSideMade (talk) 12:36, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Thank you for your contribution to Wikipedia. Intelligentsium 17:05, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Trivium[edit]

Trivium are not alternative metal. Allmusic lists alternative metal under styles because it doesnt have a tag for metalcore so thats how it lists metalcore bands. It has that for Killswitch engage -- http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:0zfrxqtkldte ; Atreyu -- http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:gnfpxqukldfe ; and even Lamb of God -- http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:gbfyxzrkld6e ! 124.181.133.180 (talk) 03:46, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually they do, they have punk metal which they use for metalcore bands, and crossover thrash bands. So as far as i'm aware there's no reason not to add any metalcore if it's listed as alternative metal on allmusic, and i'm pretty sure lamb of god is tagged as alternative metal on allmusic because of the band's nu metal tendencies.

Notable albums[edit]

Removing this section for now. Most of them just list all the band's albums, and there's nothing to say what qualifies it as 'notable'. 87.194.171.224 (talk) 10:16, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

All the nu-metal bands should be removed[edit]

just because allmusic calls them alternative metal doesn't mean its true, since they dont recognize nu metal as a genre they just put all the nu metal bands under alternative metal. nu metal bands on the list should have references other then allmusic. i'm tired of people using alternative metal as a blanket term for nu metal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by I call the big one bitey (talk • contribs) 10:31, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

First off, nu-metal is a substyle of alt metal. Second, Allmusic tags are unreliable, but actual attributed content is reliable.--¿3family6 contribs 16:59, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Lastly, you are making the same unsubstantiated claim as allmusic.Curb Chain (talk) 19:53, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Limp Bizkit[edit]

i'm removing them since they only made one alternative album, and their sole reference is a review of that one album. — Preceding unsigned comment added by I call the big one bitey (talk • contribs) 06:30, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

found another source, so reverted.--¿3family6 contribs 10:58, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This page is a wreck[edit]

Let mme start by saying my defenition of metal is very broad, and that includes Evanescence and Flyleaf, however, Creed is NOT metal in any way!, and neither is Pendulum! just because pendulum collaborated with a few metal bands in their most recent albums doesnt mean theyre metal! Metallica is definetly metal, however they are not alternative metal, this page should include only bands that play alt metal constantly, bands that have references (as in more than one) on them being alt metal (as in not a reference for an album, only references that state that the BAND is alt metal) and whats with all the "citation needed" ? also the page is missing Type O Negative. Another thing that needs work is the other genres, HIM does play goth metal, but there is no need to classify them as heavy metal, the same goes to flyleaf, and other bands, all alternative metal bands are heavy metal by default, however bands like Disturbed and Slipknot should be classified as heavy metal because their brand of metal is more" traditional" (if you will) or should i say conventional sounding metal. As for the characteristics, alt metal bands do not play indie rock, who ever gave that editor that idea? i have yet to hear a single alt metal band (or any type of metal) who plays indie rock. Alternative metal is very diverse, its sound is slightly experimental and it usualy doesnt sound like the traditional heavy metal bands (hence the term 'alternative' metal). As for nu metal bands, all of them play alternative metal by default since nu metal is an off shoot of alt metal, however, nu metal is more hip hop and rap influenced, it has a lack of guitar solos, and has kind of a groove, since when is Flyleaf hip hop influenced? since when do their harder songs like Im So Sick and Chasm have a groove? Bands like Linkin Park and Evanescence have a groove and hip hop influences (yes evanescence had a hip hopish thing, check out bring me to life,mgoing under, and made of stone, however, evanescenc now is more groove centered, -my opinion-) This page really needs to be revamped by a group of completely unbaised editors who have the time, knowledge and dedication to really turn this into a good list. I would honestly help, but im on ipad, and its pretty fastidious to edit on it, and also i have no wikipedia account and editors tend to not trust IPs, but still, i would help as much a can, but the page is so completely horrifyingly edited, i wont be able to do it alone, specially since i dont know or have even heard of most of these bands. All im saying is that i would apreciate the help alot, im not trying to boss anyone around, or trying to offend in any way, im just trying to make this the best article possible 24.227.9.114 (talk) 19:06, 17 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

METALLICA???[edit]

Stop adding metallica to this list. There is no source saying that metallica is alternative metal. Metallica is pure rock & metal and has nothing to do with alternative music. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.254.10.187 (talk) 13:18, 8 August 2012 (UTC) there is a reliable source saying so, now please stop removing metallica — Preceding unsigned comment added by I call the big one bitey (talk • contribs) 19:12, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sept 10/2012 Mass removal of unsourced artists[edit]

Just noting that I've removed all the entries which had been tagged for ~over 1 month as needing a citation. I did not check EVERY artist's wikiarticle to check to see if an appropriate source does indicate that they are alternative metal.Curb Chain (talk) 06:20, 10 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

About the nu metal labeling of A Perfect Circle[edit]

I know it is sourced, however aren't we supposed to check the actual quote that mentions A Perfect Circle from the book which has been referenced (Nu-metal: The Next Generation of Rock & Punk) before labeling it? The book is cited in the A Perfect Circle's article just to verify a fact about their first album rather than classing them as nu metal. And none of the other sources (such as Allmusic, nu metal isn't even listed in their wikipedia article) mention them as a nu metal band, so I believe there's something wrong. - Myxomatosis75 (talk) 13:10, 30 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, APC's sound is far from nu-metal.And I think the reference of that particular book is questionable. Bloomgloom talk 13:50, 30 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

i personally don't think their nu metal, or even close to it, however their in the list of nu metal bands, so i added nu metal to the band's genre field on this page along with the reference from the list of nu metal bands article. I call the big one bitey —Preceding undated comment added 19:24, 30 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I checked that list. The same source was used to "justify" their genre. Nevertheless we can't still be sure without seing the actual quote from the source. The user who added them to that list might have just taken that source from "A Perfect Circle"s wikipedia article and thought that it was meant to label them as nu metal due to the book's name. As we only have this source for the nu metal labeling, which is not reliable in this case (due to absence of the actual quote), I think they should not be classed as nu metal in both this list and the nu metal list. (As you said, they're not even close to nu metal, and none of the other sources classify them as such.) - Myxomatosis75 (talk) 15:54, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think just a verification needed tag should be used, until the labeling can be proven or dis-proven. Once that is done, then we can look at whether a statement by a single source is worth mentioning on this list.--¿3family6 contribs 17:37, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And by the way, this A Perfect Circle issue has gone far beyond the absurd I guess. Are we supposed to cite each source that labels them as something? I've never seen them being labeled as "nu metal", "art rock" or "gothic rock" in any preofessional music website (And I guess De La Font is just a booking agency which is not actually supposed to represent the musical acts' actual genres. They took most of the music biographies from the Allmusic, anyway.). Same applies to Alice in Chains. How can a local newspaper determine their genre? They have never been a sludge metal band and they're not supposed to be just because a newspaper in Baltimore proclaimed so. Why isn't the credibility of the source questioned before the addition the genres? - Myxomatosis75 (talk) 19:18, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

newspapers (such as the one you mentioned) are reliable sources as they are comprised of professional journalists, therefore sludge metal stays for aic I call the big one bitey

Okay then, nevermind the sludge metal issue. What about art rock and gothic rock labeling? Was that also written by a professional journalist? Myxomatosis75 (talk) 20:10, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Myxomatosis75, AiC actually played sludge metal.If you minutely listen to Love hate love, Junkhead, Angry Chair, Head Creeps, Sludge factory they all are proto-sludge songs & Cantrell always played ultra-heavy proto-doom riffs in heavier AiC materials with Layne's moaning wails & snarls.And AiC have nothing in common with grunge.They just got lumped into it as they were from Seattle. Bloomgloom talk 06:54, 2 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

btw this is a list of band's that have at some point played alternative metal in their career, so it also lists other genres that band's have at some point played during their career, not just the primary genres they've played over their career I call the big one bitey

I'm aware of that. Nevertheless, A Perfect Circle have never played nu metal. (You can see that I am not objecting to the "industrial" labeling, because of their song Counting Bodies Like Sheep to the Rhythm of the War Drums. And my point is that the booking agency website is not reliable for sourcing.(Even if it is deemed as reliable, "An art rock band with nu-metal and gothic elements" does not necessarily mean that they're performing nu-metal and gothic rock. It just indicates influence. ) Apart from this website, there is only one source that allegedly claims that A Perfect Circle is a nu metal band and my opinion is that we should not cite that source and classify them as nu metal until the actual quote from the book is verified. - Myxomatosis75 (talk) 20:58, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There have been attempts to include listings of the other music styles that a band plays on other lists, such as list of Christian metal bands, and they always end up in disaster one way or another. At least in the case of Christian metal, it made sense because that style is a lyrical distinction. But here, it is totally unnecessary. But, if we have to list other styles, we should stick with those a band is primarily known for. This is a list of alternative metal bands, not a list of alternative metal bands listed with every other single style that the band has ever been mentioned as playing in any source anywhere. Leave more detailed info for the respective articles.--¿3family6 contribs 21:42, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And by the way, labeling them as nu metal or gothic or ambient or any other genre just because it has been said that they've been influenced by them is somewhat wrong. It is like calling Tool a sludge metal band because of being influenced by Melvins or labeling Nine Inch Nails as glam rock because of Bowie influence. Myxomatosis75 (talk) 14:36, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Pop" classification of Linkin Park[edit]

I think "pop" was used as "popular music" rather than "pop music" in this source [1]. Myxomatosis75 (talk) 09:16, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't it link to popular music rather than pop music then? --UltimateLegend (talk) 21:23, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

well im sure i can still find many more sources specifically calling them "pop". theres no doubt their last couple of albums and singles are influenced by pop, like burn it down which is pretty much a pop rock song hiding behind the alternative rock shield.

I don't see where you're going with this. Electronic rock, (which they have mixed in with Alt. Rock) is different from Pop Rock. --UltimateLegend (talk) 22:51, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

sources[edit]

I remvoed many bands from the list because they were poorly sourced, because they only got sourced from allmusic genre tags, HOWEVER allmusic's tags are NOT reliable. Only the REVIEWS are. The tags are just random tags they add. Besides, they tagged suicide silence as power metal but they obviously aren't. They tagged a7x as emo but they are NOT. Only their reviews are. I don't care if it's a minor change but allmusic tags are UNRELIABLE. Also, the band anal cunt were NEVER glam metal and the source for all that remains being alt metal came from the band's Wikipedia page. But you can't cite wiki as a source for itself.

Ihy34 (talk) 01:10, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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One Ok Rock[edit]

The article listed that appears to list One Ok Rock as alternative metal isn't the right one, it's being sourced for Mudvayne, a band that already IS listed as alternative metal. Was the one for OOR gone missing in terms of sourcing or can we just change it from yes to no if no such article exists? Punkrockjournalist5432 (talk) 17:30, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Quite right! Be bold and remove them from the list unless you are able to find another reliable source that warrants their inclusion. Well spotted! Robvanvee 17:53, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I found one article that classifies them as "heavy metal", but not "alternative metal", so I guess I can remove it on the list for now until anyone finds said article that classifies them as alt-metal. OOR are alt-rock and some other genres, but atm not alt-metal, but classifying them as "heavy metal" would be fine. https://www.tokyojournal.com/sections/movies-music-entertainment/item/486-one-ok-rock.html Punkrockjournalist5432 (talk) 22:31, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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