Talk:List of general authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

New General Authorities

During the Saturday Afternoon Session of General Conference, new members of the seventy were sustained. They will need to be added to this page. The link to the relevant information follows: New General Authority Callings Announced. This information should be added ASAP. The one downside is that, with the exception of Elder Clarke, we have no birthday information for the others that were sustained. Thanks for your attention to this matter. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 19:17, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Just took care of it myself. I added the new GA's to the applicable lists and templates. Ages are approximated. Once the Church News runs articles about these new seventies, we'll have their exact birthdays. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 02:35, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Just discovered an error in the listing of birthyear for several new seventies. I fixed that, so they now have the right ages. I am puzzled. The Church News did run an article on Elder Alonso this weekend, but no birthday was listed. I don't know if that was just an oversight on their part or what. So it appears that unless we can find a verifiable source sooner, we will need to look up the actual birthdays in the Ensign. If anyone finds any other source listing the needed information, please let me know. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 20:29, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

I've got good news and bad news. The good news is that, as I thought, last week and this week, the Church News ran articles on Elder Alonso and Elder Ardern. The bad news is that nowhere in the articles does it list the birthdate or even the birthyear of these brethren. For whatever reason, that information was omitted. And I have a sneaking suspicion that future articles about the other new General Authorities will omit the same information. It appears that we will have to wait until the May Ensign comes out to get that data. If anyone comes across that information elsewhere, please include it here and source it properly. Sorry. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 19:45, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

The May Ensign is available online and it just has the month and year for their births. I am going to try and email the Church Headquarters to find the information. It is that or wait until next years almanac.204.195.17.57 (talk) 04:12, 26 April 2011 (UTC)Scott 21:12, 25 April 2011

I based my changes of the birthyear NOT on OR, but rather on an estimate based on information available in the Church News. I've looked but failed to find the May Ensign online, and will have to see a source that says it is available before I believe it. I don't understand the rationale behind entering the months that appear herein. That information is not sourced and constitutes OR in my opinion. Also, someone omitted the "i" in J. Devin Cornish's name. I will fix that. Please cite your sources here or on the page itself for verification. Btw, WP does not authorize editors to speak in their behalf in writing to headquarters for that kind of information. If it did, Wp would also list the assignments for the Apostles. Such actions constitue OR also and should not happen. Please cite your sources to back up your claims. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 17:49, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

I am not so much an editor as just an interested person trying to help. That being said I appologize if I am overstepping my bounds, I know you take pride in making this page as accurate as you can while staying with in the rules of the site. I appreciate all of your hard work on here. You can get to the May 2011 Ensign by going to LDS.org, click menu, Magazines, Ensign, Other Issues. That is where the May issue is at. Also Elder Cornish's first name is Devn (without the i).Sarrott (talk) 18:58, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. Your insight was amazing. I apologize for spouting off without having sources. That said, I will undo the change I did. And this feedback eliminates my OR concerns. Thanks again. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 21:15, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

• Calculating a birth year based on an age provided in a source is OR. It shouldn't be done because it typically results in the wrong year being entered, as was done here repeatedly. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 22:59, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

The Church News this weekend ran an article about Elder W. Christopher Waddell. Oddly enough, this article includes his precise birthday. That information will be entered onto this page. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 06:12, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

August 2011 Changes in Area Leadership Assignments

The Church News on Friday ran an article about changes in Area Leadership that will be effective on August 1. It would be my suggestion that we do this year as we have done in the past, making the changes on a subpage that can be merged with this article on that date. It should be noted, however, that the PDF document accompanying the article shows the area leadership assignments that were effective last year. I brought that to the attention of the Church News staff and am waiting to hear back from them. Among the notable changes are that Elder Costa will be released from the Presidency of the Seventy to fulfill an assignment as President of the Brazil Area. Filling the empty slot in the Presidency will be Elder Tad R. Callister of the Second Quorum of the Seventy. This marks only the second time in Church history that a member of the Second Qourum of the Seventy has served in the Presidency of those quorums. You will find a link to the story below. Trodel, if you want to put together the subpage like you have in the past, that would be great. I look forward to helping get these changes into the page. Here's the link: Area-leadership--2011. Thanks. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 01:43, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

The Church News has fixed things so that the article shows the PDF version of THIS year's assignments. That will be helpful when we get the changes put in. The subpage idea would be nice, but if necessary, we can just make a list of the changes that need to be made and implement them on August 1. Either way would work. Hope this information is helpful to you. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 13:35, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in responding I've created the subpage Talk:List of general authorities of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/August 2011 to make the changes. I also removed the out of date notice on the current page since it's been updated to reflect the April conference changes. --Trödel 16:53, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that. One of these days, I need to learn how to do that myself. I am not entirely sure it's appropriate to remove the out-of-date tag. My reason for saying this is that we don't yet have the exact day of birth for new General Authorities. I guess it's not really a problem, though. If anyone comes across the exact day of birth, they can enter it here. In the meantime, I will get to work on updating the subpage as soon as the Area Seventies page is up-to-date. Hopefully all that can be done within the next couple of weeks. Thanks again. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 17:19, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

That information is not "out of date" but is not precise enough yet. I see out of date for having the wrong people still in, not having assignments updated correctly, etc. --Trödel 21:33, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

I just gave this year's list and last year's list a thorough going-over. From the lists, I have made a list of changes that will need to be implemented into the subpage. Once we have that list here, updating the subpage should be a piece of cake. The list is as follows:

Changes that need to be made to the WP General Authorities Subpage:

Presidency of the Seventy:

Claudio R. M. Costa needs to be removed from the Presidency and as President of the North America Southwest Area.

Tad R. Callister needs to be added to the Presidency and listed as President of the North America Southwest Area.

First Quorum of the Seventy:

Ian S. Ardern is now the Second Counselor in the Philippines Area.

Carlos H. Amado needs to be removed as President of the Chile Area and is now the Second Counselor in the Central America Area.

Yoon Hwan Choi needs to be removed as First Counselor in the Asia North Area.

Don R. Clarke needs to be removed as President of the Central America Area.

Gary J. Coleman needs to be removed as First Counselor in the Caribbean Area.

Carl B. Cook is now the Second Counselor in the Africa Southeast Area.

Lawrence E. Corbridge, the former First Counselor in the Chile Area, is now the President.

Claudio R. M. Costa needs to be readded and listed as President of the Brazil Area.

LeGrand R. Curtis Jr. is now the Second Counselor in the Africa West Area.

John B. Dickson, the former First Counselor in the Africa West Area, is now the President.

Enrique R. Falabella, the former First Counselor in the Central America Area, is now the President.

Gerrit W. Gong is now the Second Counselor in the Asia Area.

James J. Hamula, the former First Counselor in the Pacific Area, is now the President.

Paul E. Koelliker needs to be removed as President of the Africa Southeast Area.

Marcus B. Nash needs to be removed as President of the South America Northwest Area.

Brent H. Nielsen needs to be removed as Second Counselor in the Pacific Area and is now the First Counselor in the Philippines Area.

Kevin W. Pearson is now the First Counselor in the Pacific Area.

Rafael E. Pino, the former First Counselor in the South America Northwest Area, is now the President.

Carl B. Pratt needs to be removed as Second Counselor in the Asia Area.

Dale G. Renlund, the former Second Counselor in the Africa Southeast Area, is now the President.

Michael T. Ringwood is now the First Counselor in the Asia North Area.

Joseph W. Sitati, the former Second Counselor in the Africa West Area, is now the First Counselor.

Ulisses Soares needs to be removed as President of the Brazil Area, and is now the First Counselor in the Africa Southeast Area.

Michael John U. Teh, the former Second Counselor in the Philippines Area, is now the President.

Juan A. Uceda, the former Second Counselor in the South America Northwest Area, is now the First Counselor.

W. Christopher Waddell is now the Second Counselor in the South America Northwest Area.

F. Michael Watson needs to be removed as First Counselor in the Africa Southeast Area and is now the Second Counselor in the Pacific Area.

Jorge F. Zeballos, the former Second Counselor in the Chile Area, is now the First Counselor.

Second Quorum of the Seventy:

Wilford W. Andersen, the former Second Counselor in the Caribbean Area, is now the First Counselor.

Randall K. Bennett is now the Second Counselor in the Europe East Area.

Tad R. Callister needs to be removed from the Quorum and as President of the Pacific Area.

Craig A. Cardon needs to be removed as President of the Africa West Area.

J. Devn Cornish is now the Second Counselor in the Caribbean Area.

Keith R. Edwards needs to be removed as President of the Philippines Area.

Won Yong Ko needs to be removed as First Counselor in the Philippines Area.

James B. Martino, the former Second Counselor in the Central America Area, is now the First Counselor.

Kent F. Richards is now the Second Counselor in the Chile Area.

Please note also that after August 1, we will need to remove Elder Alekzandr N. Manzhos, an Area Seventy, as Second Counselor in the Europe East Area.

Those are the changes that need to be made to the subpage. If anyone has any questions or comments, please post them here. If anyone wants to help implementing these changes into the subpage, they are more than welcome. Thanks. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 23:18, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Just made all the changes myself. But I don't believe I sourced them. That will have to be fixed. I also capitalized the word "Counselor" and entered Elder Walker's calling as Executive Director of the Temple Department. Let me know if there are any problems. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 04:53, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

The August Ensign is available on the web. In it are listed changes in the Advisers of the Church magazines. Elder Paul B. Pieper continues as editor. The advisers, formerly Elders Stanley G. Ellis, Christoffel Golden Jr. and Yoshihiko Kikuchi, will be Elders Keith R. Edwards, Stanley G. Ellis, and Per G. Malm. I will make the changes on the subpage. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 17:00, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Copied the subpage content to this page. Now all that remains is to merge the page histories and get rid of the subpage. Hope this information is helpful to you. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 14:15, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Something weird is happening. I thought for sure I saw Elders Edwards, Ellis, and Malm listed as advisers to the Church magazines in August. Looking again at the August Ensign, I found that the advisers were actually listed as Ellis, Golden and Kikuchi. But now the September Ensign says that the advisers are Edwards, Golden, and Malm. I'll fix that on the page. And we'll see if there's another change next month. How bizarre! --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 13:44, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Archive

This talk page is very long, with a great many dead conversations. Can we archive off some of it? -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 17:48, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Date check for Presidency of the Seventy.

I was looking at the Presidency of the Seventy, and something didn't look right about the information that was listed. I did some research and learned that the date listed for Elder Hallstrom's call was a year off. So I fixed it, and double checked all the dates for the Presidency of the Seventy, and insofar as I have been able to determine, the dates are now accurate. Thank you. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 17:48, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Changes made but not sourced.

Until he was granted emeritus status during the October General Conference, Elder Richard G. Hinckley served as the Executive Director of the Church Missionary Department. I knew that Elder Cecil O. Samuelson, who had also been granted emeritus status, will, by assignment, continue to serve as president of BYU. So I wondered if Hinckley would retain his assignment as well. I googled "Executive Director of the Church Missionary Department" and found an article in the LDS Newsroom. It stated that Elder David F. Evans is now the Executive Director of the Church Missionary Department. Accordingly, I have added that assignment to Evans's listing. For verification of this information, I refer you to the following article: “I’m a Mormon” Media Campaign Expands Across United States and Australia. That reference should probably appear on the WP page, but I don't have time to take care of it now. Additionally, the August 2011 Area Leadership changes still need to be sourced. Anyone who would care to help in doing so is welcome. Any questions? --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 19:15, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

By way of information, generally (and closer to "always") when members of the Seventy who are serving as Executive Directors of Church Departments (ecclesiastical departments such as Missionary, as you referenced) are granted emeritus status or released they will not continue to serve in those capacities. As noted, Presdident Samuelson continues in his assignment at BYU, as did Elder W. Rolfe Kerr as Commissioner of Education for a period of time after being designated as an emeritus general authority. ChristensenMJ (talk) 16:14, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Church Historian and Recorder/Other Forthcoming Changes

It was announced by the First Presidency on January 10 that Elder Steven E. Snow will succeed Elder Marlin K. Jensen as Church Historian and Recorder and Executive Director of the Church History Department. The change will happen in the near future so that Elder Snow can be well trained for his new position before Elder Jensen is granted Emeritus Status in October 2012. This will necessitate Elder Snow's release as a member of the Presidency of the Seventy. The change is not official yet, but it will be soon. It is my feeling that we should wait until the changes are official before they are made here. But I just wanted to post this here now so that we can be thinking about this in the near future when the change goes into effect. The link to the story is as follows: Elder Snow: Church Historian It is also my feeling that Elders Keith K. Hilbig and Jay E. Jensen will be granted emeritus status in October as well, which will necessitate yet another change in the Presidency of the Seventy. It'll be interesting to see what happens. Just wanted to post this change. Exciting and unexpected news! --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 20:37, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

It was officially announced on February 11, 2012, that Steven E. Snow would be released from the Presidency, Richard J. Maynes called in his place, L. Whitney Clayton given Snow's area assignment (Utah areas) and Maynes given Clayton's former area assignments, effective immediately. See First Presidency announces changes. It should also be noted that while Snow has been released from the Presidency, he is not yet Church Historian and Recorder. The change will only happen in October, when Marlin K. Jensen is granted emeritus status. Therefore, the page is as it now stands. Please do not revert this information without posting here first. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 04:07, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually, LDS.org specifies Maynes's date of call as January 20, 2012. The date has been changed on this page accordingly. Please post here before reverting it back. Thanks. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 18:42, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Something else that I was wondering about. LDS.org lists Steven E. Snow as Church Historian and Recorder already, but it also lists Marlin K. Jensen as Church Historian and Recorder adn specifies Jensen as Executive Director of the Church History Department. So, my question is, when should we list Snow as Church Historian and Recorder? It is my feeling that, if Snow truly is already Church Historian and Recorder, he will be sustained as such tomorrow during the business portion of General Conference. If he doesn't get sustained in General Conference as such until October 2012, the WP page shouldn't list him as such until it's officially voted on in General Conference. So, IMHO, I think we should wait until it's official before we make that change. In about 16 & 1/2 hours, we'll know one way or the other. Thoughts? --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 05:49, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, Elder Snow wasn't sustained as Church Historian and Recorder. I guess that will happen in October. Thanks. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 06:53, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Changes just made.

I went through the list of general authorities today, and, based on information available at lds.org, I updated this list with missing assignments and birthdates. There is information still missing, but I don't know where we'd get it. Until tomorrow, when, no doubt, new seventies will be sustained, this page is up-to-date. There are, however, error codes I can't get rid of on my own. HELP! Thanks. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 18:30, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks to Trodel and ChristensenMJ for your help in fixing the errors on this page. I have a feeling we'll have several new names to add in 14 & 1/2 hours. ChristensenMJ, I agree with you that Baxter's assignment is not specific enough. That's the trouble I ran into with those on the WP page who still have no assignment listed. LDS.org lists only general stuff for these other brethren. Oh, how I wish we could contact Church Headquarters and get a complete listing from them! But WP policy forbids that, condemning it as original research. Oh, well. Thanks again. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 05:59, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

I inserted the newly called General Authorities. Had to approximate the ages of the new seventies and Bishop Davies. How does it look? --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 06:52, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Just undid one change. One of the new seventies is "Larry Echo Hawk." He is listed that way in three official Church sources. (See Leadership changes, new General Authorities, Presiding Bishopric, and Relief Society presidency announced; New Presiding Bishopric, Relief Society Presidency and General Authorities Announced at Mormon General Conference; and Follow General Conference on News and Events. If three Church-endorsed sources say "Larry Echo Hawk," that's good enough for me. Please discuss here BEFORE changing it back. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 13:39, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Not sure which is right as I, like you, noticed that the church used the two word version in the announcements this week "Echo Hawk". However the news reports from when was Idaho AG, the BYU law school faculty profile, as well as the SL Tribs's coverage of his new calling, and the NY Times coverage of his appointment to a BIA in 2009 all used "EchoHawk" --Trödel 14:38, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

For what little it may be worth, I had noticed also yesterday, before I made the change originally, that the Washington Post had also shown it as 2 words, including the manner in which they quoted Secretary Salazar addressing the resignation and transition to come. I concur with the fact that the Church sources show it as 2 words, which is really what sparked the update in the first place. Thanks for all each of you do! ChristensenMJ (talk) 18:50, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

One additional thought on Elder Echo Hawk, the problem with showing it as two words as it currently is, it does not link to the existing page about him - Larry EchoHawk - and I am not sure there's enough comfort level to try and move/change that long standing page. Thoughts? ChristensenMJ (talk) 12:29, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

My perspective: Transcripts of the conference will be available tomorrow. In the document, "Sustaining of Church Officers," the new general authorities will be listed. The Church News will run articles on new GA's starting this weekend. Then, in about four weeks, the Ensign will be available online and in print. Until these official sources settle the difficulty, I would suggest leaving both pages as they are. What do you think? --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 14:22, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

The Bureau of Indian Affairs has it as "Echo Hawk". As they are more likely to be current with the proper spellings for Native Americans than BYU or newspapers - I think keep it two words. --Trödel 17:51, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Trodel! Nice job!!! ChristensenMJ (talk) 20:51, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

That being the case, my recommendation is that we leave it as two words and rename the article about him from "Larry EchoHawk" to "Larry Echo Hawk." Great research, Trodel! Thanks! --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 22:37, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

YW - complete btw - the move (but not updating the links) --Trödel 23:51, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Just dropping a note to say that I recently added exact ages for Elder Echo Hawk and Elder Gay. Elder Echo Hawk's exact age was obtained from a Church News article and his WP page. Elder Gay's age was obtained from a Church News article ran last weekend. Next weekend, I'm sure, they'll run an article on Elder Whiting. We'll see what happens in subsequent issues of the Church News. One weird thing, though. It appears that the Church News is now being published on Sunday, not Saturday. Interesting! --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 23:25, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for updating their birthdays. The Church News is still being published on Saturday, for some strange reason they did list all the dates as Sunday, 22 April, on the website. Thanks for all you do! ChristensenMJ (talk) 00:32, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Earlier today, I added birth month and year information for Elder Whiting and Bishop Davies based on information contained in the May 2012 Ensign, which is now available online. Then just barely, I found out that the Church News ran an article about Elder Whiting, so I was able to enter in an actual day for his birth month. Subsequent articles will feature the new Presiding Bishopric, I'm sure. In the meantime, I notice that ChristensenMJ claims that Elder Ringwood, formerly the First Counselor in the Asia North Area, is now the President, replacing Presiding Bishop Stevenson, and that Elder Yamashita, formerly unassigned, is the new First Counselor. I will be the first to admit that when it comes to inside information about general authorities, ChristensenMJ has always been right. But I think that since changes in Area Presidencies have always been sourced in the past that this change needs to be sourced as well. I will leave it up to ChristensenMJ to provide that source at his convenience. Exciting news! --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 08:18, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

When LDS.org was finally updated to reflect the new Presiding Bishopric, the changes in the Asia North Area were also included in being updated. ChristensenMJ (talk) 03:44, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. On LDS.org's biography of Bishop Davies, his exact birth date is listed. I will add it to this article. Now all we have to do is wait until we learn who will replace Bishop Causse as First Counselor in the Europe Area, then see when the August 2012 changes will be available. At that time, we can discuss a subpage to hold those changes. Thanks again. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 05:18, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

August 2012 Changes.

Once we have a subpage created for this year's Area Leadership Assignments, the following changes need to be implemented into it:

Presidency of the Seventy:

Jay E. Jensen will be released from the Presidency of the Seventy and as President of the North America Northeast Area.

Donald L. Hallstrom will preside over the North America Northeast Area, succeeding Jay E. Jensen.

Craig C. Christensen, newly called to the Presidency of the Seventy, succeeding Jay E. Jensen, will preside over the Idaho and North America Central Areas, succeeding Donald L. Hallstrom.

First Quorum of the Seventy:

Marcos A. Aidukaitis will be released as First Counselor in the South America South Area.

Jose L. Alonso will be the new Second Counselor in the Mexico Area.

Carlos H. Amado, the former Second Counselor in the Central America Area, will be the new First Counselor.

Craig C. Christensen needs to be removed, as he is now in the Presidency of the Seventy.

Lawrence E. Corbridge will be released as President of the Chile Area, which will be combined with the South America South Area.

Enrique R. Falabella will be released as President of the Central America Area.

Robert C. Gay will be the new Second Counselor in the Central America Area.

Gerrit W. Gong, the former Second Counselor in the Asia Area, will be the new First Counselor.

Jay E. Jensen needs to be readded as a result of his release from the Presidency of the Seventy.

Patrick Kearon will be the new First Counselor in the Europe Area.

Erich W. Kopischke will be released as President of the Europe Area.

Anthony D. Perkins will be released as President of the Asia Area.

Paul B. Pieper will be released as the co-supervisor of the Middle East/Africa North Area.

Jose A. Teixeira, the former Second Counselor in the Europe Area, will be the new President.

Octaviano Tenorio will be released as Second Counselor in the Mexico Area.

Francisco J. Viñas will be released as President of the Caribbean Area and become the new Second Counselor in the South America South Area.

Jorge F. Zeballos, who is serving as First Counselor in the Chile Area (which will be combined with the South America South Area), will be the new First Counselor in the South America South Area.

Claudio D. Zivic will be the new Second Counselor in the Caribbean Area.

Second Quorum of the Seventy:

Wilford W. Andersen, the former First Counselor in the Caribbean Area, will be the new President.

Randall K. Bennett, the former Second Counselor in the Europe East Area, will be the new First Counselor.

Bruce A. Carlson will be the new co-supervisor of the Middle East/Africa North Area.

J. Devn Cornish, the former Second Counselor in the Caribbean Area, will be the new First Counselor.

Bradley D. Foster will be released as Second Counselor in the South America South Area.

Larry R. Lawrence, the former First Counselor in the Europe East Area, will be the new President.

Per G. Malm will be the new Second Counselor in the Europe East Area.

James B. Martino, the former First Counselor in the Central America Area, will be the new President.

Kent F. Richards, who is serving as the Second Counselor in the Chile Area (which will be combined with the South America South Area) will be the new Second Counselor in the Europe Area.

Gregory A. Schwitzer will be released as President of the Europe East Area.

Kent D. Watson, the former First Counselor in the Asia Area, will be the new President.

Larry Y. Wilson will be the new Second Counselor in the Asia Area.

How exciting to find out these changes! --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 04:57, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Per above request I created this page: User:Jgstokes/List of general authorities of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/August 2012. There were objections last time to it being in the talk namespace, so I put it to your user space. Please remind me when it's time to make the change and I'll merge the two pages in a way that keeps the histories per the cc-by-sa/gfdl licenses. --Trödel 20:09, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Trodel! Hopefully this will work. I would invite anyone who wishes to do so to put the new page on their watchlist. I will start making the relevant edits to it as time allows. Thanks again! --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 23:06, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Just edited the list to add a couple of changes that I missed. The task list is now complete. I have some time this evening, so I will be working on this update. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 23:19, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Have made all the changes mentioned. Now the only question is, who will replace those who had assignments in the various departments if some of those individuals were called to area leadership assignments? As far as I know, the subpage is up-to-date. Any questions? --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 01:16, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

• Question. One question I have (not that it's terribly relevant for the purposes you are referring to above) is this—where is this information coming from? Is it found in a reliable source, or are these inside "leaks" from LDS Church headquarters? If the latter, it's probably not a good idea to add this sort of information to WP biographical articles (as was done here), because it is information not found in public, reliable sources. WP:BLP issues come into play. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 01:42, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I've found the announcement related to Jensen here. So I guess my question is really where did all the other details come from? Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:23, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Christensen's calling is here and the new area leadership assignments are here - so its a matter of distilling them to the list above based on prior callings. --Trödel 03:28, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
    • Ah, thank you for the latter link which I was not aware of. That answers my question fully. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:32, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
      • Comment. This is purely a statement of the obvious, but adding it anyway....just to add my own voice to the reminder Good Olfactory noted above that if there are ever "leaks" from LDS Church headquarters, for several reasons, they should never be the source of updates or changes made to WP articles. Thanks to him - and each of you, including Jgstokes and Trödel for the great work you do on LDS-related articles! ChristensenMJ (talk) 19:42, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. I agree that information leaked from Church HQ is not a reliable source for WP purposes. However, before the news was released on LDS.org, the Church News featured articles about the changes. In past years, I listed the sources I used, but I neglected to do that this time. My apologies for any confusion my oversight may have caused. Here are the two sources I used: Area leadership assignments announced for 2012 Craig C. Christensen called to the Presidency of the Seventy. Again my apologies for neglecting to cite my sources. I will never make that mistake again. Thanks again. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 22:55, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

No problem. It was probably understood by regular editors of this article that the sources were out there since I see you have gone through a similar process in years past to update the assignments, etc. I just wasn't aware that the changes were announced in sources this early. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 23:20, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Changes in area leadership are announced to the general authorities at the beginning of the year by the First Presidency, but generally remain unannounced until April or May. This is done so that the individuals affected by the assignment change have time to make whatever preparations might be necessary for their new assignments. It used to be that the changes were effective on August 15, but now they are effective August 1. We typically set up the subpage when the changes are announced and then merge the subpage with this page when the changes take effect to simplify things. I appreciated your inquiry and apologize again for my oversight. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 00:18, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I looked over the subpage again, and it was just was well that I did. I inadvertently listed Gong's assignment wrong. I also discovered that citations were not listed for last year's or this year's assignments. There are also some citation error tags I can't get rid of. HELP! --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 00:52, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Has that fixed the citation problem? Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 01:01, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Thank you very much. I didn't know how to take care of that myself, so it helped immensely to have you fix that. Thanks again! --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 01:08, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I've tweaked a few other things that I think would be appropriate. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 01:20, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree with all the changes you made. Thanks for all that work! It looks great! --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 01:53, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

For a slight modification to what was noted above, the assignment changes are given to the general authorities the week following April General Conference each year, then generally proceed in the same way you've noted. Thanks for all your work and efforts! ChristensenMJ (talk) 12:39, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

As August 1 was yesterday, I copied and pasted the contents from the subpage to this page. Now the page histories will just have to be merged. Post here with questions or concerns. Thanks. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 19:33, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Just looked at my August Ensign. There I found a big surprise. Paul B. Pieper has been released as Executive Director of the Executive Director of the Church Curriculum Department and as Editor of the Ensign, Liahona, New Era and The Friend magazines. Craig A. Cardon now fills that role. Keith R. Edwards and Per G. Malm have been released as advisers to the Church Magazines. Christoffel Golden Jr. remains as an adviser. He is joined by Shayne M. Bowen, Bradley D. Foster, and Anthony D. Perkins. I will be making that change on this page. Exciting to find out this information! --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 00:41, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

What is the rationale for chainging the Central America Area Second Counselor from Robert C. Gay to Kevin R. Duncan? The latest official source (the August Ensign lists Gay as the Second Counselor. Again, the issue is verifiability. And the source remains uncited. The only source linked to this information lists Gay as the Second Counselor. So what's going on? --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 01:31, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi - --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable - I do recognize the August Ensign lists the same information that the Church News gave back in May or so when the assignments were announced. A change was subsequently made in that assignment, so if you wish to wait until the Church may make a future annoucement in the Church News or other publication before making the change to Elder Duncan, that is fine. Thanks! ChristensenMJ (talk) 01:37, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I have reverted the change until it can be verified by a reliable source. Sorry, but unsourced material violates WP's policy on verifiability. Thanks. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 02:50, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Understood. Don't know if or when an annoucment of sorts may be opted for, perhaps it will show up in the Church News sometime. Keep an eye out for something that may allow it to be updated to reflect the correct data. Thanks for all you do. ChristensenMJ (talk) 03:06, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I didn't take time for much review of assignments, but you will note removal of part of Cardon's listed assignment {updated the other day, but only partially correct} and the one listed for Robbins. You may wish to revert these as well as they are not sourced, but neither were the ones that were removed, so you'll have to decide which you feel is best. The Curriculum and Media Services departments no longer exist, which is the reason for the updates made. Thanks!ChristensenMJ (talk) 03:26, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Interesting. All the information that has been included on the page but not sourced comes from LDS.org, the General Authorities page. I looked at it again recently, but sadly the page is severely outdated. I accept what you said about the Curriculum and Media Services Department no longer existing, but we do need to make sure that the changes for this page are verifiable. For now, I am content to leave the page as is. Thanks. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 04:41, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I glanced at the same LDS.org pages yesterday just to see if they by chance had been updated to reflect recent assignment changes, but figured they would not have been.....We'll see if they get around to doing that at some point as well!  :) Take care!! ChristensenMJ (talk) 19:09, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Looked at it today, and still has not been updated. I am posting a link here so that the page can be easily found and sourced once it is updated. Here's the link: LDS.org - General Authority Biographies. We'll hope it's updated soon. Though they might be waiting for October General Conference to make the changes on that page until they are officially announced. Thanks. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 22:19, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

They - meaning those managing the website - probably just need to remember to get around to doing it on the website as those type of things wouldn't be part of General Conference. You could always go in where they have a link that provides opportunity for feedback on pages and suggest they remember! :) ChristensenMJ (talk) 23:06, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Have given them a friendly nudge. I hope it works. I have also suggested that they list the Committee Assignments for the apostles. If they do, we can use that information on this page. We'll see what (if anything) comes of this. Am a little confused, though, as to why ChristensenMJ couldn't make this request himself. At any rate, the deed is done, and we'll see what happens. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 03:05, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Ha ha - no need to be confused, Jgstokes, I am lazy enough and wasn't interested enough to take the time to go in and do it! :) ChristensenMJ (talk) 04:52, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Among the changes made in August was Steven E. Snow officially replacing Marlin K. Jensen as Church Historian and Recorder. It was recently announced that Robert C. Gay replaced John K. Carmack as chairman of the Perpetual Education Fund. Since he can't fill an assignment at headquarters while serving in an Area Presidency miles away, we now have verification that Kevin R. Duncan has replaced Gay as Second Counselor in the Central America Area. I will implement these changes on the page ASAP. Post comments here before reverting these changes. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 00:46, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

October 2012 Changes.

Elders Keith K. Hilbig, Jay E. Jensen, Marlin K. Jensen, and Octaviano Tenorio have been released and granted Emeritus status. Additionally, Elders Keith R. Edwards and Larry W. Gibbons have been released from their service in the Second Quorum of the Seventy. All of these changes need to be implemented on this page. Any or all of you are welcome to help with this. I will do what I can as well. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 16:17, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

I've edited the templates and removed Elders Edwards and Gibbons from the Second Quorum of the Seventy. I've also removed Elders Hilbig, J. Jensen, M. Jensen, and Tenorio as members of the First Quorum of the Seventy. I was working on editing them into the emeritus section when my log-in timed out and wiped out all my data. So I will have to start again, unless someone else gets to it first. Darn it! Thanks! --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 17:55, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Was able to get the newest Emeritus members where they belong in the table, but now there are errors I can't get rid of. HELP! Thanks. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 19:55, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks to ChristinsenMJ for assisting me in fixing these problems. This page is now up-to-date, unless we can find an updated list of General Authority Assignments. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 23:44, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

January 2013 Changes.

As per this article, we will have some changes to make come January 6, 2013. This change affects the Presidency of the Seventy, the South America South Area, and the Africa Southeast Area. All relevant changes should be made to this article at or around January 6, but not before. Thanks. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 21:18, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

For references this article is referenced in the above letter as a previously announced change. 67.78.175.58 (talk) 18:38, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

It does get a bit tricky, while true that the article noted just above by the user shows this as a previously announced change, published on 16 November in the Church News, this news release from 2 days before makes it clear the announced change would be effective on 6 January 2013. When the time comes to make effective the changes, while annoucement dates are different, effective dates are all the same and ought to be reflected as such. The Church News article was not as complete as it may have been regarding the effective date. ChristensenMJ (talk) 20:14, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Now that the changes are in effect, this page needs to be updated. I don't have time to take care of this myself, but hope that this can be taken care of soon. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 02:18, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I started to earlier today, but didn't get finished. Got the individual pages pretty well updated earlier I think. ChristensenMJ (talk) 02:20, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I saw that. I also saw that you updated the templates. Thanks for all that great work! If you could finish the update ASAP, that would be great. I also think you might be of help on the Area Seventies page, adding in Colin H. Bricknell's new assignment. Left a note there that this needs to be done. Hopefully these changes can be made soon. I'll keep an eye on both pages over the next few days and comment once the changes are made. Thanks.--Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 02:30, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Finished the update myself. Took a lot of work and more than a little trial and error, but I think I got everything input properly. Thoughts? --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 07:30, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Marlin K. Jensen years as active GA

I was troubled today to come to this page and find that the listings for Emeritus time for the two Jensens and Tenorio were way off. So I attempted to fix the problems. And I was successful in every aspect except one: now Marlin Jensen's years as an active GA are listed at over 200 years. I've played with it for the last several minutes with no luck at fixing the problem. So I thought I would post here and ask for help. I don't know what to do about it. Any help anyone can give would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 08:15, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

I think it's OK now. Thanks for noticing and working on it. ChristensenMJ (talk) 08:30, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks to ChristensenMJ for fixing this. As far as I'm concerned, this issue can be closed with honor. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 05:08, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Elder Choi and Elder Yamashita, Mission Presidents.

I see from this article that Elder Choi and Elder Yamashita will serve as mission presidents. Very interesting. Their assignments will take effect in July, and will have to be added to this page at that time. Unless, of course, they are released in April as General Authorities. As they are both very young and still relatively new general authorities, I doubt that will happen. After all, up until several years ago, General Authorities served as mission presidents all the time. This will no doubt necessitate Elder Yamashita's release from his area leadership assignment. So more changes are coming, I'm sure. I will keep an eye out on these developments and post new information as it becomes available. Hope this information is helpful to you. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 10:21, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

According to this article, Elder Yamashita will serve as president of the Japan Nagoya Mission, and Elder Choi will serve as president of the Washington Seattle Mission. Unless they are released from the First Quorum of the Seventy in April (which, as I've stated before, is unlikely), this information will need to be added to this page at that time. Thanks. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 05:50, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

April 2013 changes

As per this article, we have some changes to input. I see that someone has already added Randy D. Funk. But so many more changes must be made. I suggest we use this article to make all the necessary changes. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 07:25, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

I think I have gotten all the changes made. Please post here if there are any problems. LDS.org already had bios of the new general authorities. But in most cases, there was no specific birth date...just month and year. So we will have to wait until the Church News gives more extensive bios. Thanks. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 05:16, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

August 2013 Changes in Area Leadership

As per this article, it is time once again to set up the subpage so that on August 1 when these changes are effective, they can be made with little trouble. I have analyzed this document and can now tell you that the changes need to be made as follows:

Changes in Area Leadership August 2013

First Quorum of the Seventy:

Jose L. Alonso will be released as Second Counselor in the Mexico Area.

Ian S. Ardern, the former Second Counselor in the Philippines Area, will be the new First Counselor.

Carlos H. Amado, the former First Counselor in the Central America Area, will be the new President.

LeGrand R. Curtis Jr., the former Second Counselor in the Africa West Area, will be the new President.

John B. Dickson will be released as President of the Africa West Area.

Edward Dube will be the new Second Counselor in the Africa West Area.

Kevin R. Duncan, the former Second Counselor in the Central America Area, will be the new First Counselor.

Larry J. Echo Hawk will be the new Second Counselor in the Philippines Area.

Eduardo Gavaret will be the new Second Counselor in the Brazil Area.

Carlos A. Godoy will be released as First Counselor in the Brazil Area.

Gerrit W. Gong, the former First Counselor in the Asia Area, will be the new President.

C. Scott Grow will be the new Second Counselor in the South America Northwest Area.

Brent H. Nielson, the former First Counselor in the Philippines Area, will be the new President.

Rafael E. Pino will be released as President of the South America Northwest Area.

Joseph W. Sitati will be released as First Counselor in the Africa West Area.

Michael John U. Teh will be released as President of the Philippines Area.

Juan A. Uceda, the former First Counselor in the South America Northwest Area, will be the new President.

Arnulfo Valenzuela will be the new Second Counselor in the Mexico Area.

W. Christopher Waddell, the former Second Counselor in the South America Northwest Area, will be the new First Counselor.

F. Michael Watson will be released as Second Counselor in the Pacific Area.

Scott D. Whiting will be the new Second Counselor in the Asia North Area.

Kazuhiko Yamashita, who will be President of the Japan Nagoya Mission starting in July, will be released as First Counselor in the Asia North Area.

Second Quorum of the Seventy:

Koichi Aoyagi, the former Second Counselor in the Asia North Area, will be the new First Counselor.

Timothy J. Dyches will be the new Second Counselor in the Central America Area.

Randy D. Funk will be the new Second Counselor in the Asia Area.

O. Vincent Haleck will be the new Second Counselor in the Pacific Area.

Kevin S. Hamilton will be the new Second Counselor in the Africa Southeast Area.

James B. Martino will be released as President of the Central America Area.

Jairo Mazzagardi, the former Second Counselor in the Brazil Area, will be the new First Counselor.

Adrian Ochoa will be the new Second Counselor in the Central America Area.

Kent F. Richards will be released as Second Counselor in the Europe Area.

Terrence M. Vinson will be the new First Counselor in the Africa West Area.

Kent D. Watson will be released as President of the Asia Area.

Larry Y. Wilson, the former Second Counselor in the Asia Area, will be the new First Counselor.

Area Seventies:

Colin H. Bricknell will be released as Second Counselor in the Africa Southeast Area.

I hope this information is helpful to you. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 20:36, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

I have created a subpage for this year's changes. It is located here. Within an hour, I hope to have all the changes input into that page. Feel free to edit the page as well and leave comments about it on this talk page. Thanks. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 07:29, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Took me a little longer than I'd hoped, but I now have the subpage up to date. I will be checking out LDS.org soon to try to find other assignments for the currently "unassigned" brethren. I will see what I can find out. Again, please post here with comments about the subpage, unless you want to post comments on the subpage's talk page itself. Thanks. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 05:22, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Since August 1 has come and gone, I transferred the information on the subpage to this page. Changes should be up-to-date as far as we have access to information. I will be altering the area seventies page and the page about LDS areas next. Page histories need to be merged. Since I'm not sure how to do that, I will be asking for assistance with that. As always, anyone is welcome to make any changes they see fit, as long as they are verifiable. Thanks. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 06:16, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the updates, both here and on the Area page. ChristensenMJ (talk) 18:48, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Merged histories - Thanks Jgstokes for all you do to keep these pages updated --Trödel 20:14, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

The disappearance of table sorting.

It used to be on this article that we could sort the individual groups of general authorities by age, years served, calling, etc. For some reason the ability to sort tables has disappeared. Anyone have any idea what happened and how to get that feature back on the page? --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 06:04, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi - --Jgstokes - I actually saw your comment on the GA page a bit ago and went and tried it, it still appeared for me and worked just fine, so I am not sure what's causing your experience. ChristensenMJ (talk) 06:42, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

The sortable tables use Javascript, so you need to have Java activated on your web browser for it to work. If it's activated but you're still experiencing problems with it, it may just mean that you either need to install a Java update or a browser update. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 07:10, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Please note the JavaScript is not the same as Java. Java of itself doesn't require JavaScript, and vice versa. However, if JavaScript is in use, you do need to have your web browser set to allow it. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 15:52, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

My bad. I thought they were connected—but no. Never trust advice from an amateur. So JavaScript is the key here—nothing to do with Java. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 17:33, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Checked on my JavaScript settings and everything was in order. Went back to this page and tried to view the "sort" feature but it still wasn't there. Any other ideas? This is really distressing to me! --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 00:34, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Try going to another page with sortable tables, such as List of most recent executions by jurisdiction--can you see the sortable tables on that page? Also, what browser and browser version are you using? Are you using a Wikipedia "skin" under the WP preferences or just the default? Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 01:10, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

I went to that page as well as to WP's Area seventies page. The sortable feature didn't show up for either of them. I am using the latest version of Internet Explorer. I don't know anything about a Wikipedia "skin". As far as I know, I'm just using the default. --Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable (talk) 02:01, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

If you click on Preferences --> Appearance it gives you the option of choosing a WP "skin", which is just an overall appearance for the site. Sometimes the various skins can interfere with some of the JavaScript features, but if you've never changed your skin, you should just be on the default and it has the least number of problems. Maybe try downloading Firefox, Safari, or Chrome and use a different browser to access your account. If it's still a problem, then at least you could tell that it is your account and not the browser that's causing the problem. Or log out of your account and visit the page as an anonymous visitor and see if anything changes. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:46, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Did that. Changed all settings to original default. No luck. I guess the next step is to download Firefox. I tried logging out of my account and viewing the page as an anonymous user. Encountered the same problem. So I'm thinking it's the browser. But I will try installing Firefox and let you know. Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 05:32, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Tried and failed to install Firefox. Every time I try, I get the message: "The service did not respond to the start or control request in a timely fashion." So I'm not sure what to do about that. I tried to view the WP GA page on my wife's computer, and the sort feature appeared on her system. (She uses Internet Explorer as well.) So obviously the problem has something to do with the settings on my computer. I'm not sure how to fix it. Any ideas? --Jgstokes (talk) 03:40, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, I'm really confused now. The table sort feature reappeared as mysteriously as it disappeared. I don't know what I did to fix it, but it's back now. Thanks for all the help. --Jgstokes (talk) 05:07, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Newly Called General Authorities

I am posting here to inform those interested that a text version of the May 2014 Ensign is online at lds.org. Included in the text version was a News of the Church section containing biographies for all the newly called General Authorities. I am posting this information here so that any interested parties can create/expand articles for those newly called leaders. I would do it myself but I'm not sure I have the time or the know-how to do so. I'm sure the PDF version of the Ensign will be up before too much longer. Hope this information is helpful to you. --Jgstokes (talk) 04:49, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Articles need to be created for currently serving members of the Second Quorum of the Seventy that have no article.

I am posting a bit of a gripe here. It bothers me to see so many Second Quorum of the Seventy General Authorities without an article. I don't understand the reason why they don't warrant an article. Is it because they are not prominent enough? I also note that an article was created for Elder Martinez shortly after his call simply because he was the first Caribbean General Authority. I don't think it's fair to assume that one General Authority deserves an article because he's the "first" of his region while we have no articles for brethren who are honorably filling assignments throughout the Church and around the world. It makes no sense to me to have articles for some prominent or famous Area Seventies but not for all General Authorities. It certainly isn't for lack of information. The Church News always runs articles on new General Authorities. The Ensign always has biographies of newly called leaders. I would gladly create new articles for each Second Quorum member that currently has none, but I have neither the time nor the know-how for such an ambitious project. I will also be posting this topic on the Latter-day Saint project portal page. I feel we need to get this done and soon. If it were up to me, I would want to see an article for all currently serving General Authorities by the end of May. I think that would be plenty of time, given that there are only currently 10 members of the Second Quorum of the Seventy without an article. An experienced editor who cared enough to do the research could write a well thought out article for each of the 10 by the end of May easily. And if more than one editor cared to work on the project, it would go even faster. So that's my proposal. Thoughts? --Jgstokes (talk) 02:50, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

There are quite a few (now released, both living and dead) members of the 2nd QofS that do not have articles. Depending on the case, it's possible that their notability may be more fleeting than other general authorities. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:45, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm not concerned about those that have been released. I am concerned about Wikipedia readers who come to Wikipedia seeking to find information about currently serving members of the Second Quorum of the Seventy and being unable to find them. I notice that while you commented on the notability of the Second Quorum members in general, you said nothing about my proposal in particular. I would be interested to hear your thoughts about creating the 10 new articles for the currently serving members of the Second Quorum that are prominent for the moment simply because of their current service. Like I said in my previous comment, that should be a simple process because the sources to do so are readily available. I'd do it myself, only I don't know all that much about creating Wikipedia articles and getting them to link in all the relevant places. That's why I posted here. I am in no way suggesting that we go back and create articles for all members of the Second Quorum of the Seventy that have ever served (though even that would be easy enough because the sources are still easily accessible). My concern is that current GAs who are prominent now because of the service they are currently rendering get the recognition they deserve and that all Wikipedia readers who may seek this information can find it here. So, thoughts? --Jgstokes (talk) 04:14, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Well, many of those who are in the 2nd Quorum today will in the future become one of the dead or living former members, so it does all kind of tie together. I don't have any opinion on the proposal in general, apart from thinking that whether an article about a person should exist is generally considered case-by-case, and to note that notability is not temporary. I have no overarching objections to articles about general authorities existing (but I know some users do, especially if they are not "lifetime general authorities", as with apostles and 1st Quorum of the Seventy members). Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 04:21, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

So why create articles for some members but not all? If all Second Quorum members are truly only "temporarily notable" then it shouldn't matter very much if an article is created about any of them at all or not. By that argument, we should probably get rid of the existing articles for present and past members of the Second Quorum of the Seventy since their notability is only temporary. You can't have it both ways. Either all members are worthy of Wikipedia articles or none of them are. If you are unable or unwilling to create such articles, then you might at least consent to tutor me on how to do so in order to get it done. As I said, I would do it myself, but I am not familiar with how to create Wikipedia articles or to get them to link to all the other relevant articles. Then I can work on the project myself as time and circumstances allow. I also think that other editors should be given a chance to chime in on this subject. Even if you are unable or unwilling to do something about this, perhaps someone else out there might not feel the same way. That's why I also posted my message on the Latter-day Saint project page for comments and discussion. So, does anyone out there have anything else to say about this issue? --Jgstokes (talk) 05:16, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

I wasn't making an argument or trying to have anything any way, let alone both ways. I was just putting out some ideas about why some of them may not exist. (I do disagree that all general authorities are of equal notability, but I think that's a case-by-case issue and not one that can be resolved here.) Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 05:28, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Then how do you explain the "notability" of those currently serving members that have articles? I have looked over the list of names and cannot immediately see what makes them any more notable than those for whom there is no article. I can understand the article for Martinez, because he was the first GA from the Caribbean. And I can understand the article for Ochoa, because he was formerly a member of the Young Men General Presidency. But I fail to see what makes any of the others any more notable than those for whom there is no article. I think in the interest of fairness, we must create the remaining 10 articles. As I said, it wouldn't be too hard for someone who knows what they're doing. You ought to know. I believe you're the one responsible for creating the Martinez article. So what's your hang-up about creating ten more? I sense a double standard here. Hypocrisy of any kind bothers me immensely. So either prove the notability of those for whom articles exist or admit there is no criteria of notability and that creating 10 more would be a cakewalk. It's your choice. --Jgstokes (talk) 06:15, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Jgstokes, I'm not sure where you're going with this. This isn't really about me. I don't have to "prove" the notability of any article, nor am I required to create articles based on the identity of past articles I have edited. If any editor wants to nominate an article for deletion, then I might choose to discuss the notability of the person, but even then it's not my job to "prove" notability to anyone. I could just as easily choose to not comment at all in such a discussion. In this discussion, I haven't even set out my opinion on notability of any article or person—all I've done is throw out an idea as to why (perhaps) some articles might not exist on Wikipedia. I'm sorry if I've upset you. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 06:52, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry too. But I still say I would like to see articles created for the other currently serving members of the Second Quorum of the Seventy, and I don't have the know-how to do that myself. So I guess my question is, how would I go about creating those new articles and making sure they had all the appropriate links that are in existing articles? --Jgstokes (talk) 07:04, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

As you can see, I figured out how to create the new articles myself and am in the process of creating them. My thanks to all who are contributing to the articles after they are created. It is my hope that we can make each of these articles prominent enough to keep. Almost done! --Jgstokes (talk) 04:33, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

I finished all 10 articles for the Second Quorum members that didn't have one. My thanks to the many editors that are cleaning up the articles I created. Now it remains to be seen whether these newly created articles' subjects are notable enough to warrant the articles remaining. If someone does propose getting rid of any of them, though, I will have to query the notability of some already existing articles. Hope this information is helpful to you. --Jgstokes (talk) 07:47, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

A nomination for deletion for a former 2nd Quorum member has been started here. This is what I meant when I mentioned that there are some users who find 2Q members not notable enough for WP articles. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 23:29, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

I was not aware of this nomination. By that argument, should we then also propose for deletion articles about dead apostles and prophets, since they, being dead, are no longer notable? I don't think so. Their legacy lives on because of what they accomplished during their terms of service. So it is with Second Quorum members. While their prominence may be fleeting because their service may last only a few years, the impact of the work they do is still felt upon the Church today. I will give you one example. There is no article for C. Max Caldwell, who served in the Second Quorum of the Seventy in the early to mid 90s and died in 2012. I had the privilege of working with Elder Caldwell for a number of years in the Mount Timpanogos Utah Temple. We became good friends, and whenever I had a gospel question to ask, I always went to him, because I knew he would have the answer. He was remembered throughout the temple for his scriptural and gospel knowledge. When I became engaged, my bride-to-be had no preference as to who would marry us. So I told her there was no one I'd rather have perform the ceremony than C. Max Caldwell. With her consent, I asked him to do it. And he did. I continued to work with him after my marriage until he became so ill he could no longer work in the temple. I kept in contact with his wife as he approached death. And I was privileged to be at his funeral. So while he may not be prominent anymore by Wikipedia standards, his name will be had in honorable remembrance by me and my wife and our posterity. He will always be prominent to me. And in my opinion, his gospel scholarship makes him a prime candidate for a Wikipedia article. But I know I'm in the minority on this one, so I won't propose that it be created. Former members of the Second Quorum of the Seventy retain the sealing power after their release and often serve in temples until their deaths. Some may even be called as temple presidents. This makes them prominent enough in my eyes. So why do some Second Quorum members merit an article but not others? Why the double standard? Where do we draw the line? I see a grave imbalance here, and I don't like it. So I want an answer to my question. What makes some Second Quorum members prominent but not others? Why, for example, have an article about Tad R. Callister, but not his brother, Douglas L. Callister, whose service in the Second Quorum of the Seventy surpassed his brother's by 3 or 4 years? Why have an article for Robert S. Wood but not L. Edward Brown, both of whom are prominent not only for their service in the Second Quorum of the Seventy, but for serving as temple presidents after their service? I asked this once before, and you failed to provide a satisfactory answer. So where is the line drawn and how do we determine which Second Quorum members warrant an article and which ones don't? You seem to be the expert on why articles are created and deleted, specifically in the LDS genre, so I'm hoping you can provide satisfactory answers this time. I would ask, though, that instead of just typing the first thing that comes into your head, you give it some thought for a couple of days and come back with a well-reasoned answer. I anxiously await a thorough reply. Thanks. (By the way, if I seem angry or upset, I'm not really. Just very confused about what seems to be a double standard and a gross miscarriage of justice.) --Jgstokes (talk) 03:59, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

As before, I'm not making any argument one way or the other about this issue. I don't have a problem with any article existing about a current or former general authority. I am, however, pointing out that some users have different views on the notability of some general authorities. My overall opinion is that rather than having a hard-and-fast rule that applies in all cases, articles should be approached on a case-by-case basis. There are general guidelines that apply, but opinions can differ as to how they apply to individual cases—thus we have individual discussions about individual articles when they are nominated for deletion. I don't claim to be the "expert on why articles are created and deleted, specifically in the LDS genre"—historically, I haven't had much to do with WP:AFD discussions and I typically don't participate in them or read them. I have been more active in WP:CFD. If you feel strongly about the issue, I suggest you comment in the discussion. Any user can choose to comment in AFDs. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:41, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Stokes, the Wikipedia policy is that if there are not significant sources independent of the subject, the article is deleted. A great many of the General Authority articles are sourced wholly from Mormon websites and publications; these articles do not have sources independent of the topic and therefore do not pass GNG. Since some general authorities have more independent sourcing than others, the ones that have independent sourcing are kept and the ones that don't are deleted. Furthermore, you should also consider the policies that pertain to writing an article about yourself or about a colleague, as Caldwell would seem to fall in that category. Due to your personal connection with Caldwell, it would be unwise of you to create or edit his article, or to vote in AfD discussions if it is created and then AfDed. pbp 19:03, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

I didn't say I necessary wanted to see a Wikipedia article created for Caldwell. I was just observing the seeming imbalance between why some Second Quorum members warrant an article and others don't. And as I stated on the Kevin S. Hamilton Articles for Deletion page, Hamilton has relevance currently because of his current service. But it is not just his current service that makes him notable. He was also involved in California's Proposition 8 overturning. That makes him politically significant. I have added that information to the article about him, along with a source to verifiy that information. And I would again raise a point that no one has bothered to address: why is Hamilton being singled out for deletion when most of the articles about currently serving Second Quorum of the Seventy members have only Church-related citations? Seems kind of two-faced, if you ask me. Either all articles with only Church-related citations are eligible for deletion, or none of them are. I really hate hypocrisy and double standards. It would be a lot easier if I were working with editors that followed the same policies and applied them to all articles, not just the ones they feel like singling out. I made myself pretty clear on the AfD page for Hamilton that I would be unalterably opposed to any efforts by anyone to delete what I feel are relevant articles. I don't mean to be difficult, but in my mind, any currently serving general authority has relevance and thus should have an article. The ideal situation would be to find a balance of LDS related and non-LDS related material from which to cite biographical information for each currently serving general authority. But we'd be hard pressed to find such sources. Most of the non-LDS sources are anti-Mormon and bigoted against LDS Church leaders, so I highly doubt those would be a reliable source. That's my take on it, anyways, for what it's worth. --Jgstokes (talk) 19:51, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

When I get the consensus that being unsourced overrides being a General Authority (and I should get it, because it's in line with Wikipedia policy), you can bet that I will nominate them for deletion. Until then, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS covers me from the use of the argument about other poorly-sourced General Authorities not being on the block: having other poorly-sourced articles existing is NEVER an argument for keeping an article. But until you get Wikipedia:Notability (people) changed to have a guideline for religious figures, there is no guideline supporting your belief that all General Authorities are relevant. pbp 04:58, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

August 2014 Changes in Area Leadership

Just barely noticed this. On the Church News and Events page, the Church has posted changes in area leadership that are to be effective August 1. I just barely saw this, and as I'm currently tied up writing articles for all those Second Quorum of the Seventy members that have no article, I have no time right now to analyze and compare this year's changes with what was announced for last year. But I will get to that before too much longer and post the changes that need to be made here. Once I do that, I will also see about setting up a subpage like we have in years past. If anyone wants to beat me to the punch, they are more than welcome to. Here is the link to this year's Area Leadership Assignments: Area Leadership 2014. It's kind of funny. I stumbled across this doing a search for information on Jairo Mazzagardi, but when I go to the main Church News & Events page, it doesn't seem to be on there. Anyways, here for your enjoyment, is the list. --Jgstokes (talk) 04:33, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Finally finished my project of creating articles for those members of the Second Quorum of the Seventy who didn't have one and had time to analyze the list of changes in Area Leadership. Once the subpage is made, the following changes should be implemented:

Changes in Area Leadership August 2014

First Quorum of the Seventy:

José L. Alonso will be the new Second Counselor in the Central America Area.

Carlos H. Amado will be released as President of the Central America Area

Ian S. Ardern, the former First Counselor in the Philippines Area, will be the new President.

Shayne M. Bowen will be the new First Counselor in the Philippines Area.

Carl B. Cook will be the new President of the Africa West Area.

LeGrand R. Curtis Jr. will be released as President of the Africa West Area.

Benjamin De Hoyos, the former First Counselor in the Mexico Area, will be the new President.

Kevin R. Duncan, the former First Counselor in the Central America Area, will be the new President.

Stanley G. Ellis will be the new First Counselor in the Africa Southeast Area.

James J. Hamula will be released as President of the Pacific Area.

Daniel L. Johnson will be released as President of the Mexico Area.

Jörg Klebingat will be the new Second Counselor in the Europe East Area.

S. Gifford Nielsen will be the new Second Counselor in the Pacific Area.

Brent H. Nielson will be released as President of the Philippines Area.

Kevin W. Pearson, the former First Counselor in the Pacific Area, will be the new President.

Paul B. Pieper will be the new First Counselor in the Mexico Area.

Bruce D. Porter will be released as Co-supervisor of the Middle East/Africa North Area and will be the new President of the Europe East Area.

Chi Hong (Sam) Wong will be the new Second Counselor in the Asia Area.

Claudio D. Zivic, the former Second Counselor in the Caribbean Area, will be the new First Counselor.

Second Quorum of the Seventy:

Wilford W. Andersen will be released as President of the Caribbean Area.

J. Devn Cornish, the former First Counselor in the Caribbean Area, will be the new President.

Randy D. Funk, the former Second Counselor in the Asia Area, will be the new First Counselor.

O. Vincent Haleck, the former Second Counselor in the Pacific Area, will be the new First Counselor.

Larry S. Kacher will be the new Co-supervisor of the Middle East/Africa North Area.

Larry R. Lawrence will be released as President of the Europe East Area.

Per G. Malm will be released as Second Counselor in the Europe East Area.

Hugo E. Martinez will be the new Second Counselor in the Caribbean Area.

Adrian Ochoa, the former Second Counselor in the Central America Area, will be the new First Counselor.

Larry Y. Wilson will be released as First Counselor in the Asia Area.

I will now have to go back and figure out how we created the subpage and recreate it for this year. I will post here when we are ready to input the changes. Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 08:59, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

All these changes have been implemented. Just going through the list now and seeing if I can find assignment listings for the unassigned brethren. Have found a few, but am not sure about them, so will have to double check information. --Jgstokes (talk) 09:58, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

The August Ensign and Liahona have limited text available to view. In the coming days, I'm sure the whole PDF version of all August magazines will be available. My reason for posting here is that I noticed while, on a whim, comparing the Church News Area Leadership list to the list available in the magazine that it matched perfectly...with one exception. It appears that Marcos A. Aidukaitis is replacing Eduardo Gavarret as Second Counselor in the Brazil Area. Gavarret is apparently being reassigned to Church headquarters, though this has not been confirmed. I will make this change on the subpage and cite the source, though the page number of the Ensign is guesswork unless and until the PDF version becomes available. Also, there may or may not be a change in the editorship and advisership of the Church magazines, but I will post that here as well if and when that becomes effective. Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 09:03, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Since according to Wikitime it is now August 1, I have copied and pasted changes from the subpage to this page. I notice from the August magazines that there has been apparently no change in the editor/advisers of the church magazines. This means, among other things, that Elder Alonso, Elder Bowen, and Elder Ellis are both serving abroad in an area presidency and serving as advisers to the Church magazines. Unless the September magazines list a change, they will continue to serve in both capacities. Now I just have to update the area page. Also, the page histories need to be merged, but I'm not sure how to do that. --Jgstokes (talk) 05:53, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Terminology for Middle East/Africa North Area.

I am posting a query here. The Church offers no explanation as to the title of those who are supervising the Middle East Africa North Area. We can't call them a Presidency because there's only two of them. I have been listing them as "Area Supervisors" but in one article I saw them referred to as "Area Administrators." I'm fine with using any term. Since the Church hasn't designated an official one, I wanted to get feedback on what Wikipedia should call them. I have no strong feelings one way or the other. Thoughts? --Jgstokes (talk) 06:24, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

I could really use feedback about this. We need to get this settled before assignments change in August. Again, I have no strong feelings one way or the other. I just want the consensus to establish a uniform way in which to refer to those assigned supervisory responsibility of the Middle East/Africa North Area. Thoughts? --Jgstokes (talk) 00:53, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

I guess I would use "Area Administrator" since the latest chart of assignments uses the language "Administered from Church headquarters" in regard to the Area. I'm not aware of any "official" term for the position, so this is probably as good as any. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:12, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

I see your point, (and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you) but I could also see the merits in the current terminology we are using, that is, "Area Supervisor." Since the Church is non-specific about which term to use, it makes it confusing about which term would be most logical. I guess what I'm trying to say is I could make a strong case for going either way. Since I'm on the fence on this one, I will let the consensus decide, because whatever they decide is fine with me, as long as we're all in agreement. --Jgstokes (talk) 02:23, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

This issue never got settled. According to what we have, they are still listed as "Area Supervisors". But since you, Good Ol’factory, seem to favor "Area Administrator", we still need a consensus decision. I reiterate: I'd be fine employing either term. Whatever the consensus decides is fine with me. So, are there any other comments on this issue? --Jgstokes (talk) 07:31, 15 September 2014 (UTC)