Talk:List of general authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Age format

I recommend removing the decimal points from the ages. Nobody states that a person is 93 and 6/10 years old. We could include the number of months, although I think that is unnecessary detail. I think just putting the age in years is satisfactory. Any other thoughts? Thanks, Bahooka (talk) 23:49, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

That would be problem for one simple reason. If the men on this list are closer to their next birthday than their previous one, the only way to tell how close they are to their next birthday is the decimal point. If anything, since the single decimal point only indicates tenths of a year, and there are 12 months, that gets even trickier, so it would make more sense to expand that even further to hundredths of a year, since the single decimal increases once every 36.5 days. These are just my thoughts on the subject, though. If the consensus wants to only include the year, I won't try to fight it. In my mind, expanding it one point makes much more sense than shrinking to just the year. But those are just my thoughts. It would be more convenient to leave it as is, but if it has to go one way or the other, I would favor expansion of the field rather than shrinking it. --Jgstokes (talk) 03:19, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

I just tried it with years and months. How does that look? Bahooka (talk) 03:47, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

It seems a bit too cumbersome and heavy. And since you only changed the apostles' ages, there is no uniformity or conformity for the others. When I said I would favor expanding the field, I meant more that it would make a lot of sense to expand all ages on this page to hundredths of a year. The decimal ages (which are permissible to use as per Wikipedia's style guidelines for age) are not for people to state how old an individual is, but rather to determine what their age is. I won't expand the perimeter of the ages on this page to the nearest hundredth unless everyone agrees, but until a consensus determines what (if anything) should be done about this issue, I will restore the prior version. I appreciate your good faith efforts, but I think if we are going to do anything about it, there should be a consensus before either one of us unilaterally changes what has been a long-standing tradition on this page. Hope that is okay with you. --Jgstokes (talk) 04:43, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

No problem with you reverting my test. I only did part of the page so we can look at how it looks compared to the original version. Unless we hear from somebody else on the talk page, I may ask for a third opinion at WP:3O. I still think the decimals are inappropriate for ages. Thanks, Bahooka (talk) 05:23, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

You are more than welcome to request a third opinion on that page if you like, but I learned from past experience that those requests are generally best made in instances where a difference of opinion on a subject has become uncivil, which (at least from my perspective) doesn't apply here. From our interactions, I would hope that we have both been continuing to assume good faith. I certainly bear no offense against you for having a different opinion than me on this. With that said, since I have had a decade of experience editing Wikipedia (and this page in particular), I can tell you that you can likely consult the archives of this talk page for a look at the reasoning and discussion that attended the establishment of the consensus to use one decimal point for the ages of these individuals. If you look that over (sorry I can't remember exactly where you might find the discussion in question in the archives) and are still not happy about the decimals, we can certainly continue the discussion. You can feel free to request a third opinion if you like, but I am aware of one or two of the editors that have also participated in the upkeep of this page for years and I wouldn't have a problem with reaching out to them for their thoughts on this, whatever their opinions might be. Just let me know. I might suggest we do that instead of the 3rd opinion request, which would be handled by those editors who specialize in resolving disputes. Thanks for taking time to read and respond to this comment. I look forward to the ongoing discussion on this subject. --Jgstokes (talk) 07:41, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Hi Jgstokes, thanks for the thoughts. There is definitely no lack of civility or bad faith. I've seen your comments for many years and respect your edits and thoughts. I followed your suggestion and searched the archives. I saw a discussion 10 years ago (which you participated in, actually.) The other editor felt the inclusion of months was too verbose. Personally, I disagree. It looks fine with months to me, especially when no one uses decimals with ages in the real world. The reason I think going to WP:3O may be helpful is because this talk page doesn't get a lot of activity. If someone like User:ChristensenMJ weighs in, that would be great, but otherwise maybe someone else can decide. I know the format has been this way for a long time, but I really think it should be changed. Best, Bahooka (talk) 19:15, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

As Bahooka has correctly noted, I recognize the use of decimals with ages in the real world isn't really used. Yet for some reason I have found it preferable to having nothing, and just noting in full years, or including the months. It's certainly not an exact science, but can generally give a flavor at least for the respective age of the church leader. So, for me, I'd be comfortable to have it remain as it's been. On a separate note, partly because it plays into the potential use of months, some of the tables that were expanded relatively recently, such as the Presiding Bishopric, need to have some work done as they columns are too wide and the tables take up too much space - at least in my view. Thanks to both of you for all the terrific contributions you make to WP. ChristensenMJ (talk) 16:08, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

New LDS Apostles

The new apostles announced at the solemn assembly of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, are Elder Gerrit W. Gong and Elder Ulisses Suarez. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.163.74.226 (talk) 16:26, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 April 2018

Need to fix Steven R. Bangerter's years from 15 to 0. Cause he didn't serve for 15 years. Editmaster12345 (talk) 19:27, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — IVORK _Discuss 22:46, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Again, I solved this issue a while ago. According to the chart on this page, Mr. Bangerter assumed the role of General Authority on March 31, 2018. And yet, under the column of years served, his were listed as 15. I fixed the error. Hope I did. Compare Bangerter's stats in this and that edit.Crboyer (talk) 23:34, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

GA Seventies Sustained in April 2018

Hello again, everyone! I wanted to post here to clarify something. As more than a week passed without anyone adding the new GA Seventies to this page, I did so myself a day or two ago. However, to ensure I had the column style correct, I copied the entry for a veteran GA Seventy (which I believe was Mervyn B. Arnold), pasted that in the relevant places, and then tried to ensure that each copy was updated with the correct information about each new GA Seventy that was called a week ago. Obviously, in some cases, I failed to do that. So if there have been discrepancies for the new entries I added, I wanted to note why that was the case. Sorry about that, and thank you all. --Jgstokes (talk) 05:33, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Changes to Apostles Section

Hello again, everyone! As I referenced above in the section that discusses area leadership assignments, I wanted to adjust the apostles section to add the information that we know about the assignments of the apostles. It took several tries and failures, but I finally got things figured out. The First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles are now in separate subsections of the apostles section, and for the latter, I have added known area and council/committee assignments. I think it looks better this way, but that's just my opinion. I also think it would be relatively easy to find other committee/council assignments, but I'd have to do a little digging. I decided to just be bold and introduce these changes, but if the consensus determines that it would be better to revert them, I would have no problem with that. That said, I hope that none of you would have a problem with either tweaking the layout or making any other adjustments that might be appropriate rather than fully reverting them. My opinion is that, if we have the information, and if it can be verified by reliable sources, it should be included. Let me know your thoughts on this. Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 05:17, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for all your efforts. I editorialized in a comment - with the quorum being complete again with 12 members, naturally a number of assignments have changed. A few of those listed are now outdated. I fully recognize that the ref sources provided for both area and other assignments are/were current. This is more just to point it out, for awareness. ChristensenMJ (talk) 05:22, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for that. I fully recognize and appreciate that many of these assignments may have or will change, with the Quorum now complete. I also recognize that it may be a while before reliable sources confirm the specifics of what has changed. With that said, as I previously noted, I regularly check the bios of all Church leaders, in addition to the Church News and LDS.org (including leader biograhpies) for such changes. I am aware that it took Mormon Newsroom a while to note the update that Elder Cook took over oversight of the Mexico Area from now-President Oaks, and it took me even longer than that to get that updated information posted here. As I noted above, the onus will be squarely on my shoulders to ensure that I track new information and update it here ASAP, which I have no problem doing. Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 06:52, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Brook P. Hales Called as General Authority Seventy, Will Continue to Serve as First Presidency Secretary

Hello again, everyone! Mormon Newsroom reported today that Brook P. Hales, while continuing to serve as Secretary to the First Presidency, has been called to serve as a General Authority Seventy, with his new calling effective May 17, 2018. I have added this information to this page accordingly. Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 20:47, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

2018 Changes in Area Leadership Announced

Hello again, everyone! For the information of all, the Church today announced changes in area leadership that will be effective on August 1, 2018, as evidenced by the this release from Mormon Newsroom, and this article, published on the Church's News & Events. Among other things, the Church has noted that the areas in the US and Canada will, for the first time since August 2004, be served by full area presidencies of a president and two counselors, which will be comprised of General Authority Seventies, with the intent that this will free up members of the Presidency to assist the apostles and fill "other assignments", which are yet-to-be announced. Additionally, the Church noted that there will be six of those presidencies to oversee those 10 areas, with the following groups of areas being overseen by one presidency: Idaho and North America Central; North America Northwest/West; and Utah North/Utah Salt Lake City/Utah South Areas.

I have assembled the following list of those changes, which will be added to a subpage of my user page within the next few hours:

Presidency of the Seventy:

All members will, as noted above, be released from their assignments to oversee the 10 (now 6) areas in the US and Canada.

Craig C. Christensen, Lynn G. Robbins, and Juan A. Uceda will, as noted in the April General Conference, be released from the Presidency, with Terence M. Vinson, Jose A. Teixeira, and Carlos A. Godoy sustained in their stead.

In view of those changes, the three newest members of the Presidency of the Seventy will be released as Presidents of the Africa West, South America South, and South America Northwest Areas respectively.

General Authority Seventies:

Jose L. Alonso will be released as Second Counselor and will serve as First Counselor in the Caribbean Area.

Wilford W. Andersen will continue to serve as the Senior Administrator of the Middle East/Africa North Area, but will also serve as President of the Idaho/North America Central Area.

Ian S. Ardern will be released as Second Counselor and will serve as First Counselor in the Pacific Area.

Mark A. Bragg will be released as Second Counselor and will serve as First Counselor in the South America South Area.

Randall K. Bennett will serve as President of the North America Northeast Area.

Shayne M. Bowen will be released as President of the Philippines Area and will serve as First Counselor in the North America Southeast Area.

Craig A. Cardon will be released as First Counselor in the Pacific Area.

Yoon Hwan Choi will be released as Second Counselor and will serve as President of the Asia North Area.

Craig C. Christensen will serve as President of the Utah Areas.

Claudio R. M. Costa will serve as President of the North America Southeast Area.

Joaquin E. Costa will be released as Second Counselor in the Brazil Area.

LeGrand R. Curtis Jr. will serve as First Counselor in the Utah Area.

Benjamin De Hoyos will serve as President of the South America South Area,

Edward Dube will serve as Second Counselor in the Africa West Area.

David F. Evans will be released as First Counselor and will serve as President of the Asia Area.

Enrique R. Falabella will be released as First Counselor and will serve as President of the South America Northwest Area.

Randy D. Funk will be released as President of the Asia Area and will serve as Second Counselor in the Utah Areas.

Eduardo Gavarret will serve as Second Counselor in the Caribbean Area.

Taylor G. Goody will serve as President of the Nevada Reno Mission (beginning July 1).

Kevin S. Hamilton will be released as President of the Africa Southeast Area and will serve as First Counselor in the North America Northeast Area.

Mathias Held will serve as Second Counselor in the South America Northwest Area.

David P. Homer will serve as Second Counselor in the Asia Area.

Allen D. Haynie will be released as First Counselor in the Philippines Area and will serve as Second Counselor in the North America Northeast Area.

Larry S. Kacher will be released as Second Counselor and will serve as First Counselor in the Africa West Area.

Jörg Klebingat will serve as Second Counselor in the North America Northwest/West Areas.

Peter F. Meurs will be released as Second Counselor and will serve as First Counselor in the Asia Area.

Hugo Montoya will be released as Second Counselor and will serve as First Counselor in the South America Northwest Area.

Marcus B. Nash will be released as First Counselor and will serve as President of the Africa West Area.

K. Brett Nattress will serve as Second Counselor in the Pacific Area.

S. Gifford Nielsen will serve as First Counselor in the Idaho/North America Central Areas.

Adrian Ochoa will be released as President of the Central America Area and will serve as Second Counselor in the North America Southwest Area.

Allan F. Packer will be released as First Counselor in the South America South Area.

S. Mark Palmer will be released as First Counselor and will serve as President of the Africa Southeast Area.

Adilson de Paula Parrella will serve as Second Counselor in the Brazil Area.

Kevin W. Pearson will serve as President of the North America Northwest/West Area.

Paul B. Pieper will be released as President of the Mexico Area and will serve as First Counselor in the North America Southwest Area.

John C. Pingree Jr. will serve as Second Counselor in the Mexico Area.

Rafael E. Pino will be released as Second Counselor and will serve as First Counselor in the Mexico Area.

Lynn G. Robbins will serve as President of the North America Southwest Area.

Evan A. Schmutz will be released as Second Counselor and will serve as President of the Philippines Area.

Joseph W. Sitati will serve as First Counselor in the Africa Southeast Area.

Vern P. Stanfill will serve as Second Counselor in the North America Southeast Area.

Brian K. Taylor will serve as Second Counselor in the Idaho/North America Central Areas.

Michael J. Teh will be released as President of the Taiwan Taichung Mission and will serve as First Counselor in the Philippines Area.

Juan A. Uceda will serve as President of the Central America Area.

Arnulfo Valenzuela will be released as First Counselor and will serve as President of the Mexico Area.

Takashi Wada will serve as Second Counselor in the Asia North Area.

Taniela B. Wakolo will serve as Second Counselor in the Philippines Area.

Scott D. Whiting will serve as First Counselor of the North America Northwest/West Area.

Juan Pablo Villar will serve as Second Counselor in the South America South Area.

Claudio D. Zivic will be released as First Counselor in the Caribbean Area.

Hope this information is helpful to you. --Jgstokes (talk) 02:26, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Jgstokes, thanks for the efforts you make each year to be prepare the updates that will take place at the beginning of August. Although you likely have seen this, I was just going to note that this link shows the assignments for the Middle East/Africa North Area a bit differently than they have before. ChristensenMJ (talk) 11:16, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. I was aware of that article you referenced. I have just had to spend the week getting a new computer after the one I regularly use has crashed, so I have had to spend more time this last week retrieving (or in some cases recreating) many of the major documents I work with. But in response to your question, I have a few of my own:

1. For the last couple of years, official releases from the Church (including those published via LDS Church News or the official Church website) have defined those two seventies who administer this area from headquarters as "President" and "First Counselor". If memory serves, there was a discussion on that point, which resulted in the present terminology of "Senior Administrator" and "Junior Administrator." I believe you and I may both have been involved in that discussion, and I seem to recall that the decision was made to use the terminology "Senior/Junior Administrator", especially since the August editions of the Ensign during the past couple of years did not list any title for the two. Are we still wanting to use the agreed-upon terminology, or would we prefer to opt for the terminology used in the sources we have, bearing in mind that once the August 2018 Ensign is published, that terminology could change? What are your thoughts on that?

2. While unrelated to the question you asked, I wanted to note that I have created the subpage here. While I have periodically worked on that page, I did have a question about a minor adjustment to the page's layout.

The current layout on this page shows two columns for the assignments of all GA Seventies, with the first showing (where applicable) the geographical area of the Church to which such men are assigned, and the second showing the positions held in that area, or, for those serving at Church headquarters, the assignments that are known. Those sections get a bit cumbersome for those with multiple assignments. That brings me to my suggestion, which I may try on the subpage once I figure out how to make it work, but for which I wanted to allow discussion between now and August before I implement it on this page. Let's take two cases as an example: Marcos A. Aidukaitis (where the two columns with relevant information about his assignment currently show, in order, "Brazil" and "Area President") and Larry Y. Wilson (where the first of the two columns is blank, since he has no area assignment, and the second shows his current assignment as "Executive Director, Temple Department"). My suggestion would be to have the first column list the capacity in which these men are serving (so the first column would read "President" for Elder Aidukaitis and "Executive Director" for Elder Wilson, eliminating the need to have empty columns for some of these men) and the second would have the specifics of those assignments (which would read "Brazil Area" for Elder Aidukaitis and "Temple Department" for Elder Wilson). I may see how it looks on the subpage, but I will not be implementing them onto this page in August unless anyone participating in this discussion is fully on board with it.

Let me know your thoughts on the subject, and also if you think the different terminology on Church's website and on the LDS Church News release is enough to warrant our changing that terminology on this page. Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 05:09, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your thoughts. Sorry to hear about the computer hassles and other on-going circumstances you have experienced and described from time-to-time. While I may have been involved in a prior discussion about the Middle East/Africa North Area, it's not one I recall. I also don't recall ever seeing the use of president or first counselor designating either of the two assigned, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been the case. Given at least this year's listing, I'd be supportive of using the source's terminology. On the other issue you have raised, I don't have strong feelings either way. Certainly there are plenty of individuals who have both spaces blank, let alone some that have the first blank, with a full noting of the assignment in the second column. Maybe you'll have a different opinion once you see it - and maybe I will as well. Thanks for all you do! ChristensenMJ (talk) 05:33, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. Looking back at the history of such announcements, it appears that the determination to refer to those overseeing the Middle East/Africa North Area with the designation of President and First Counselor was made just last year. And looking back at the archived history on this page, I had referenced that when posting the changes after August 1 of last year, but there were no comments in response. At one point or another, I may have tried to insert the designations, but, however it happened, the determination was made here to use the terminology of "Senior (or Junior) Administrator." I would have no problem with either keeping the current terminology, or using what the Church has indicated is the case. It is interesting that, in view of Elder Andersen also serving in one of the North America Area presidencies, he and Elder Anthony D. Perkins have apparently swapped places for this year. Let me know your thoughts on how and if we want to change the list to match the terminology used by the official sources. On that note, it is worth mentioning that, although both the Church News and the Church's official website released the information about the designations of President and First Counselor, in the August 2017 Ensign, no such differentiation was made.

Regarding the idea I suggested above, I recognize that not all General Authorities have assignments listed, but that is primarily because that information is not always in the public domain. But since President Nelson became Church President, he has shown a desire to have the Church be more transparent about important issues, which may be one of many reasons why the area leadership assignments were released for the first time that I know of on Mormon Newsroom, and were published there just a few days after General Conference. With that in mind, I have no doubts in my mind that all biographies for the current General Authorities will be updated at some point between now and August, when such assignments usually take effect. That process has already begun in a way. As an example, for a while now, the Mormon Newsroom (and also the main list of general authorities) has shown in Elder L. Whitney Clayton's biography that, among his other duties, he had been assisting then-Elder Dallin H. Oaks in supervising the Mexico Area, and Elder Jeffrey R. Holland in supervising the Middle East/Africa North Area.

With now-President Oaks serving in the First Presidency, within the last week, Elder Clayton's biography on Mormon Newsroom has been updated to show that, while he continues to assist Elder Holland with the Middle East/Africa North Area, and while he continues to provide assistance for the Mexico Area, Quentin L. Cook is now the apostle whom he is assigned to assist. With that in mind, I firmly believe that the Church is moving towards more transparency in headquarters assignments.

I also recognize that it is hard for you to know whether or not you would favor the change I am recommending until you can see it. Thanks to a busy week, I have not yet had time to fully update the subpage with the changes I am suggesting. But hopefully I will be able to finish those updates, including the changes, this next week. I will let you know when that process is completed, and we can go from there. Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 06:05, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

I am back to report that I have gotten the preliminary work done on adding the above assignments, and that I have worked through the names from Aidukaitis through Haleck. Perhaps it might be a little neater for those that have multiple assignments to have one or more split columns depending on the number of assignments. Those changes can be viewed at the location I shared above, and any questions anyone has for me can be posted here. Thanks again. --Jgstokes (talk) 09:32, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

You probably already recognize this, but thought I would note that those sustained as general authority seventies at the recent conference do not appear in the listing of the subpage you are preparing to address the changes effective 1 August. Thanks for all you do! ChristensenMJ (talk) 20:10, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Hello again, everyone! I wanted to let you all know that I am still working on getting the changes made to the subpage, but I wanted to throw out a couple of additional comments about that subpage work here. First, ChristensenMJ, I wanted to let you know that, after I saw your message, I recopied the information here to the subpage, which now includes the new GA Seventies sustained last month. Thanks for letting me know about the omission.

Next, I wanted to add a general note that, as time and circumstances have allowed, I have continued to work on the subpage, and have started to peruse the biographies of general authorities from LDS.org, I imagine further updates are coming to those bios, but my intention is to pull whatever data I can from those to add assignments to the subpage. Also, among the assignments listed for current members of the Presidency of the Seventy on lds.org is their role in assisting certain members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles with their area assignments. Although that information is not listed for some of those 7 Brethren, for those that are, I will be adding that information to the sections on this page and the subpage under the sections for the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and Presidency of the Seventy.

Next, I wanted to request feedback about the changes I suggested above. If those are implemented in August, the first column for General Authority Seventies after their years served will now be labeled "Assignments" and "Field of labor". For Marcos A. Aidukaitis, that means that the first column of his assignments would note his specific position (which would be "President"), and the second would show his field of labor )which in his case would be "Brazil Area". Hope that makes sense. I did run into a problem that I have repeatedly tried and failed to get around. For individuals like Wilford W. Andersen, I want to ensure that we clearly separate his service as a Junior Administrator for the Middle East/Africa North Area and for the Idaho & North America Central Areas. But using the html symbol to create a space between the two messes up the alignment of the first and second rows for Andersen's assignments. I have tried everything I can think of, including attempts to split the rows or adjust the spacing of the text in the two columns with no success. Any suggestions any of you have would be appreciated. In the meantime, just to get the assignments on there, I will allow those rows to look a little awkward. I look forward to your continuing feedback on these changes. THanks --Jgstokes (talk) 02:28, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

ChristensenMJ, since you are the only other person who has commented on this section, I wanted to ask you about something. After reading your note above (in which you correctly observed that the subpage had not included the new GA Seventies), I remedied that issue, so it should be correct now, and I have resumed going over the General Authority Seventies section to get the new area assignments listed. But as I noted above (which may have been bypassed by the other points I made in my last comment), I have run into a problem with the subpage under the entry for Wilford w. Andersen. As I observed at the beginning of this section, he will continue his service in the Middle East/Africa North area. Regarding that service, it appears that his other area assignment (to preside over the Idaho and North America Central Areas) has resulted in a slight change to his assignment in the Middle East/Africa North Area, with Anthony D. Perkins now being the senior man in that assignment. My point in mentioning all of this is that, for individuals like Andersen, who have more than one assignment, I want to make it clearer on the subpage that each assignment is separate and distinct. The best way to do that, AFAIK, is to split the relevant cells. But every time I have attempted to do so, it messes up the format of the listings for the GA Seventies below Andersen. Do you (or does anyone else who is reading this) have any thoughts about how to get around that? Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 01:53, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Article issues

Hello, there are some issues that needs to be examined and/or brought to light. I came to this page because of the recently redirected Claudio R. M. Costa.

• 1. Sourcing (Primary sources and notes): The article is BLP related and as such demands that sources adhere to a higher degree of standards. I realize this apparently has flown under the radar for a long time but consensus by silence ends when the silence is broken. At this point I am only calling out issues that not only need to be considered but certainly closely looked at now and in the future. Creating BLP articles with primary sources only has long been against policies and guidelines, consensus, and other mandates.
  2. There are listed "Notes" and "References" sections in the article but there is no separation between citations and actual article notes appearing as inline citations.

Currently this article is almost entirely sourced with primary sources. I could stand to be corrected but it looked like 73 out of 74 references. These include Church Educational System (CES) postings at LDS.org (Mormon Newsroom), KSL-TV, Deseret Morning News (Mormon Times), Press releases, Ensign (LDS magazine), and with what looked like one Salt Lake Tribune none-connected (previously church co-owned) reliable source.

I understand the concerns of @Jgstokes: that a group of leaders of a church with apparently 14.8 to 16 million members (US- 8,436,000), which is more than the population of Oklahoma, Arkansas, Mississippi, and Louisiana, doesn't make mainstream media unless it is sensationalism and shouldn't have an article, yet a state Department or Commissioner of Agriculture can have one.

I would be at a loss to try to figure a solution for one church that would not have a trickle down effect to any other church or organization concerning primary sources. Even though it should be disregarded the other stuff exists trump card (See: Flying Spaghetti Monster) would be pulled so I cannot see an exception that would not be a slippery slope. Otr500 (talk) 23:56, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

North America Areas of the Church

Hello again, everyone! About 6 weeks or so ago I came across this website, which conclusively verifies that the 3 previously separate Utah Areas had been merged into a single Utah Area. Then, information noted in the 2019 mission president assignments indicated that that merge was the only one. The Idaho, North America Central, North America Northwest, and North America West Areas remain separate. As a result of that being confirmed by those two sources, I have updated the necessary entries on this page. Hope this information is helpful to all who read it.--Jgstokes (talk) 04:19, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

August 2019 Area Leadership Changes Will Be Added to a Subpage

Hello again, everyone! I have been absent from Wikipedia for an extended period of time while dealing with some ongoing health issues my wife and I are having. I wanted to note here that, as per my usual tradition, I will be creating a copy of this page as a subpage of my user page in order to input the August 2019 area leadership assignment changes which were announced last Friday. That subpage will be merged with this page on August 1. Among the changes to be made will be the following:

Changes in Area Leadership (effective August 1, 2019)

North American Areas merged: Idaho and North America Central (into the North America Central Area); North America Northwest and North America West (into the North America West Area); Utah North, Utah Salt Lake City, and Utah South (into the Utah Area)

Note: For the first time this go-round, a 3-man area presidency was called to have oversight of the Middle East/Africa North Area (where previously, there were just 2, a Senior and Junior Administrator).

Marcos A. Aidukaitis continues to serve as President of the Brazil Area.

Jose L. Alonso released as First Counselor and called as President of the Caribbean Area.

Jorge M. Alvarado called as Second Counselor in the Caribbean Area.

Wilford W. Andersen released as President of the Idaho/North America Central Area and as Junior Administrator of the Middle East/Africa North Area.

Ian S. Ardern released as First Counselor and called as President of the Pacific Area.

Steven R. Bangerter called as Second Counselor in the Philippines Area.

W. Mark Bassett released as First Counselor in the Brazil Area.

Randall K. Bennett continues to serve as President of the North America Northeast Area.

Hans T. Boom called as First Counselor in the Europe East Area Presidency.

Shayne M. Bowen released as First Counselor in the North America Southeast area.

Mark A. Bragg continues to serve as First Counselor in the South America South Area,

L. Todd Budge called as Second Counselor in the Asia North Area.

Matthew L. Carpenter called as Second Counselor in the North America Central Area.

Yoon Hwan Choi continues to serve as President of the Asia North Area.

Craig C. Christensen continues to serve as President of the Utah Area.

Valeri V. Cordon released as Second Counselor in the Central America Area.

Claudio R. M. Costa released as President of the North America Southeast Area.

Joaquin E. Costa called as Second Counselor in the Brazil Area.

LeGrand R. Curtis Jr. released as First Counselor in the Utah Area.

Massimo De Feo released as Second Counselor and called as First Counselor in the Europe Area.

Benjamin De Hoyos continues to serve as President of the South America South Area.

Edward Dube continues to serve as First Counselor in the Africa West Area (as announced in mid-October 2018).

David F. Evans continues to serve as President of the Asia Area.

Enrique R. Falabella continues to serve as President of the South America Northwest Area.

Randy D. Funk released as Second Counselor and called as First Counselor in the Utah Area.

Eduardo Gavarret released as Second Counselor and called as First Counselor in the Caribbean Area.

Christoffel Golden Jr. released as First Counselor and called as President of the Europe East Area.

Walter F. Gonzalez released as President of the Caribbean Area and called as Second Counselor in the Utah Area.

O. Vincent Haleck released as President of the Pacific Area.

Kevin S. Hamilton released as First Counselor in the North America Northeast Area.

Allen D. Haynie released as Second Counselor and called as First Counselor in the North America Northeast Area.

Mathias Held continues to serve as Second Counselor in the South America Northwest Area.

David P. Homer continues to serve as Second Counselor in the Asia Area.

Paul V. Johnson released as President of the Europe Area.

Larry S. Kacher called as First Counselor in the Middle East/Africa North Area.

Jörg Klebingat continues to serve as Second Counselor in the North America West Area (formerly the North America Northwest/West Area).

Joni L. Koch continues to serve as Second Counselor in the Africa Southeast Area.

Erich W. Kopischke called as Second Counselor in the Europe Area.

Hugo E. Martinez continues to serve as Second Counselor in the Africa West Area (as announced in mid-October 2018).

James B. Martino released as President of the Europe East Area and called as President of the North America Southeast Area.

Kyle S. McKay called as Second Counselor in the North America Southwest Area.

Peter F. Meurs continues to serve as First Counselor in the Asia Area.

Hugo Montoya released as First Counselor in the South America Northwest Area and called as Second Counselor in the North America Southeast Area.

Marcus B. Nash continues to serve as President of the Africa West Area.

K. Brett Nattress released as Second Counselor and called as First Counselor in the Pacific Area.

S. Gifford Nielsen released as the First Counselor in the Idaho/North America Central Area and called as President of the North America Central Area.

Adrian Ochoa released as Second Counselor and called as First Counselor in the North America Southwest Area.

S. Mark Palmer continues to serve as President of the Africa Southeast Area.

Adilson de Paula Parrella released as Second Counselor and called as First Counselor in the Brazil Area.

Kevin W. Pearson continues to serve as President of the North America West Area (formerly the North America Northwest/West Area).

Anthony D. Perkins released as Senior Administrator and called as President of the Middle East/Africa North Area.

Paul B. Pieper released as First Counselor and called as President of the North America Southwest Area.

John C. Pingree Jr. continues to serve as Second Counselor in the Mexico Area.

Rafael E. Pino continues to serve as First Counselor in the Mexico Area.

Lynn G. Robbins released as President of the North America Southwest Area.

Evan A. Schmutz continues to serve as President of the Philippines Area.

Gary B. Sabin released as First Counselor and called as President of the Europe Area.

Joseph W. Sitati continues to serve as First Counselor in the Africa Southeast Area.

Vern P. Stanfill released as Second Counselor and called as First Counselor in the North America Southeast Area.

Brian K. Taylor released as Second Counselor in the Idaho/North America Central Area and called as First Counselor in the Central America Area.

Michael John U. Teh released as First Counselor in the Philippines Area.

Juan A. Uceda continues to serve as President of the Central America Area.

Arnulfo Valenzuela continues to serve as President of the Mexico Area.

Juan Pablo Villar continues to serve as Second Counselor in the South America South Area.

Takashi Wada released as Second Counselor and called as First Counselor in the Asia North Area.

Taniela B. Wakolo released as Second Counselor and called as First Counselor in the Philippines Area.

Alan R. Walker called as Second Counselor in the Central America Area.

Scott D Whiting continues to serve as First Counselor in the North America West Area (formerly the North America Northwest/West Area).

Chi Hong (Sam) Wong called as First Counselor in the North America Central Area.

Kazuhiko Yamashita released as First Counselor in the Asia North Area and called as Second Counselor in the Pacific Area.

Jorge F. Zeballos released as First Counselor in the Central America Area and called as First Counselor in the South America Northwest Area.

Note: Two area seventies will serve in area presidencies. Alexey V. Samaykin continues to serve as Second Counselor in the Europe East Area, and Jeffrey H. Singer will serve as Second Counselor in the Middle East/Africa North Area.

As always, I will post another comment here once I have the subpage created, and any work to be done on it can be discussed in this topic on this page. My thanks again to you all. --Jgstokes (talk) 05:38, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Just posting an additional comment here to note that the subpage has been created. You can find it here. Again, please post here with questions or comments about the subpage changes. Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 05:46, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Hello again, everyone! Given that it is now past midnight Wikipedia time on August 1, 2019, in a few minutes, I will be merging this page with the subpage I created for the changes which are now or will be effective as of today (August 1). However, once I do so, I will need someone to {{helpme|help me}} merge the page histories so the relevant changes can be included on the history log for this page. Any questions about the changes made can be posted here. Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 04:58, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

@Jgstokes: Again, request that here.  I dream of horses  If you reply here, please ping me by adding {{U|I dream of horses}} to your message  (talk to me) (My edits) @ 08:42, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Done. Pinged you as requested. Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 21:01, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, I dream of horses. I pinged you for the request itself rather than in my last reply here. I have done as you asked. I appreciate your invitation to me to do that. --Jgstokes (talk) 23:42, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

2019 Changes in Magazine Advisers

Hello again, everyone! Throughout the last 4 months of this year, the Church has made various changes to the advisers of the Ensign, Friend, Liahona, and New Era. I have tracked those changes from the moment I anticipated them being made, with the following results:

As of the July 2019 edition, due to his release from the Sunday School General Presidency, Brian K. Ashton is no logner listed as an adviser. And with the latest edition, Randall K. Bennett, Donald L. Hallstrom, Erich W. Kopischke, and Lynn G. Robbins were no longer listed as advisers, with Walter F. Gonzalez, Adrian Ochoa, Michael T. Ringwood, and Vern P. Stanfill now filling those roles. The complete list of those involved in overseeing the Church magazines is as follows:

Editor: Randy D. Funk

Advisers: Becky Craven, Sharon Eubank, Cristina B. Franco, Walter F. Gonzalez, Larry S. Kacher, Adrian Ochoa, Michael T. Ringwood, Vern P. Stanfill

I will be double-checking this page to ensure the necessary changes are made there, but for now, I will make the changes for the general authority seventies to this page. Please post here with any questions or comments. Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 03:40, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Changes in Area Leadership 2020

Hello again, everyone! The Church News shared the area leadership changes last Thursday which will be going into effect on August 1. I have set up a subpage for those changes based on my personal analysis of those changes, which I am updating as time and circumstances allow me to do so. If anyone has any questions on these changes, how they are being implemented on the subpage, or how that will affect this page on August 1, please feel free to post those here. My thanks once again to you all. --Jgstokes (talk) 00:38, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Follow-up on transfer of subpage content to this page

Hello again, everyone! As you can see from the edit history, I was able to update this page with changes that went into effect on August 1. However, I wanted to post here and now to clarify something. Apparently, I included the wrong links when I mentioned them in the edit summary of this page. So the page from which I pulled the changes which were incorporated in that prior edit can be found here (for the main article) and here for the history of associated changes. I apologize for that untntentional error on my part in relation to where that content was copied from. My thanks once again to you all! --Jgstokes (talk) 09:03, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Subpage created for August 2021 Area Leadership Changes

Hello again, everyone! A couple of days ago, a release from the Church's Newsroom announced the area leadership changes that will be effective on August 1 of this year. Subsequently, this morning, the Church News also confirmed those changes. In accordance with my yearly tradition, I have combed over those changes and compiled them in this document. Prior to this announcement, I had taken the opportunity to create a subpage to hold the annoucned changes in place until they go into effect. This is to advise all editors reading this message that the process of inputting the changes in is in progress, and should hopefully be completed soon. My thanks once again to you all. --Jgstokes (talk) 01:32, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Presiding Bishopric Assignments

Hello again, everyone! I have a quick question for you all on the assignments currently listed for the Presiding Bishopric. With the release of Dean M. Davies in October 2020, when former Second Counselor W. Christopher Waddell became the new First Counselor and L. Todd Budge became the Second Counselor, it was not as clear whether Waddell had succeeded Davies on the Temple and Family History Exeuctive Council, or if in turn Budge had succeeded Waddell on the Missionary Executive Concil. As some of you might also be aware, elsehere on Wikipedia, it was noted that a temple had been announced today for Ephraim Utah, to give church members in that part of Utah another place to worship while the Manti Utah Temple undergoes a multi-year renovation. My reason for bringing up the announcement of the Ephraim Temple here is that then-Bishop Davies acted in his role as a member of the Temple and Family History Executive Council in the meeting sharing the initial renovation plans for the Salt Lake Temple. With the announcement of the Manti renovation details and a new temple for Emphraim made today, Waddell was the Presiding Bishopric member at that press conference. That to me suggests that Waddell is now serving on the Temple and Family History Exeuctive Council, succeeding Davies, which in turn suggests that Budge may now be serving on the Missionary Executive Concil, replacing Waddell. So my big question here is whether the source in question gives sufficient grounds to assume those assignments are correct? And if so, are we okay using thatsource as verification in this article on the section for the Presiding Bishopric? I could be bold and make the change preemptively now, but I wanted to give anyone who has an opinion on this the chance to discuss it here before I do so. Thoughts? --Jgstokes (talk) 20:18, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Although any of you who may disagree with my doing so are free to revert it, in weighing the information available, I'm reasonably certain that the Church would not have asked Waddell to be involved in announcing the details on the information for the Manti Utah Temple and the new Ephraim Utah Temple unless he, as a member of the Temple and Family History Executive Concil, was assigned to be involved thereewith. So I will use the Newsroom release on this development as the source to include that information on the entry for Waddell, both here and on the subpage for the August 2021 changes. And if I'm correct about Waddell succeeding Davies, it's more likely than not that Budge in turn succeeded Waddell as a member of the Missionary Executive Council, which I will also add here and ioon the subpge, but include a citation needed tag. Post any objections or further discussion here. Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 22:02, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Changes Coming to the membership of the Missionary Executive Council

Hello again, everyone. Thursday and Friday of this week marks when general leaders of the Church are conducting the 2021 Mission Leadership Seminar. Although it is only set to last a couple of days, the reports on it may continue to come through until Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. I wanted to start a new topic today to note that changes are coming to the membership of the Church's Missionary Executive Council. That information was verified in this report of Elder Uchtdorf's remarks from the opening session. The relevant text from that article is in the fifth paragraph from the top, in which Elder Uchtdorf is described as "concluding a three-year assignment as chair of the Church’s Missionary Executive Council," I have a couple of theories about who might be the new chair of that Council, but nothing has been more specifically noted beyond that. I have a feeling that subsequent coverage on the seminar that may be provided within the next few days, in which case the new Chair and any other changes to the membership of the Executive Council might formally be identified, but we'll see what happens in that regard. My thanks once again to you all. --Jgstokes (talk) 01:11, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Elder Dean M. Davies Passes Away

Hello again, everyone! An anonymous editor who did not explain recent edits to this page removed the listing for Elder Dean M. Davies. This comment is to advise anyone with questions on this matter that the Church reported this morning that Davies had passed away after a lengthy battle with cancer. That has been verified in both the Church News and the Newsroom. So those releases are the reason the aoonymous editor removed the entry for Davies from this page. That being said, a word of general advice goes out again from me to all who are editing Wikipedia anonymously with genuine contributions: If you are not signed up for an official account with Wikipedia, but want your edits to be seen as valid and meritorious, please include explanations for those edits in the edit summary field. The whole reason that field exists when editing anything here is to ensure that the changes that are made are valid. My thanks once again to you all. --Jgstokes (talk) 18:16, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Possible Adjustments in Magazine Advisers

Hello again, everyone! With this year's transition to 3 global Church magazines, the new magazines began the year with the same list of editors and advisers as were noted last year. That was the case for the 3 global magazines from January to April. In May, rather than listing all magazine advisers, all 3 magazines mentioned Randy D. Funk continuing as editor, but the adviser list was more divided. The May Liahona listed Sharon Eubank, Walter F. Gonzalez, Jan E. Newman, and Michael T. Ringwood. The May edition of "For the Strength of Youth" also listed four advisers: Becky Craven, Adrian Ochoa, Michael T. Ringwood, and Bradley R. Wilcox. As the result of some kind of technical glitch, the PDF version of the May 2021 edition of "The Friend" is not currently available as a PDF download. But since the other two magazines list only four advisers, I assume that's also the case for The Friend magazine. Although the June, July, and August editions of the "Liahona" and "For the Strength of Youth" show all the advisers in all three magazines, at very least, the September 2021 Liahona only lists the same four advisers as the May edition. So I'm conjecturing here that, following the April 2021 General Conference, when the yearly assignment changes were made, there was a determination to only list 4 advisers for each of the 3 magazines, with only the editor and Elder Ringwood listed in all three magazines. In such a scenario, since the May magazines could only begin to be assembled after General Conference weekend, those changes were able to be noted in the May magazines, while the June, July, and August editions not reflecting that information because they were prepared in advance of the release of the May edition. So once all September magazines are available, we'll probably be able to specifically note in this article and its' counterpart which leaders are serving in an advisory role to each of the 3 magazines. My thanks once again to you all. --Jgstokes (talk) 02:37, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Hello again, everyone! Just wanted to do a quick follow-up on this matter. The September and October 2021 magazines still list Randy D. Funk as the editor, which doesn't appear likely to change until next year. Michael T. Ringwood is the only other GA Seventy listed as an adviser to all three magazines.

The other advisers to the Liahona are Sharon Eubank, Walter F. Gonzalez, and Jan E. Newman. The other advisers listed in For the Strength of Youth include Becky Craven, Adrian Ochoa, and Bradley Wilcox. And the other advisers listed for The Friend are Marcos A. Aidukaitis and Amy A. Wright. As we know, Adrian Ochoa is now serving as Second Counselor in the Mexico Area Presidency. So it's likely he has been replaced as an adviser to the For the Strength of Youth magazine, and that the advisers that are or will be serving as such going forward would be assigned to specific magazines rather than having all advisers working with all 3 magazines. Just wanted to add that update, FWIW to anyone here. --Jgstokes (talk) 05:02, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Changes for General Authorities and Emeritus General Autorities sections

Hello again, everyone! Barring anything unexpected, it seems to be safe to surmise that J. Devn Cornish, Timothy J. Dyches, David F. Evans, Robert C. Gay, James B. Martino, and Terence M. Vinson will be released and granted emeritus status in the Saturday Afternoon Session of General Conference tomorrow. While implementing those anticipated changes before they are announced would violate this policy, what I have done is put the anticipated adjustments into two documents on my computer. Then tomorrow afternoon, once those changes are officially confirmed, I will plan on copying over the adjustments in those documents to this page. Just wanted to note that, for whatever it might be worth to anyone here. Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 05:02, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Church Education Board

Unless I am mistaken, the Board of Trustees for Church Education is the same thing as what is commonly called the Church Board of Education. I can find no church source that lists separate board members from the Board of Trustees for any such board called the "Board of Education"). It also appears from the Wikipedia article on Church Educational System#General administration identifies the board as going by both names. Is there something I am missing here? --Trödel 18:23, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

• see Brigham Young University minutes section and the other sections seem to imply that the boards are the same people who meet with different roles. Church Board of education for seminary/institute issues, and board of trustees for BYU issues
• This Brigham Young University. Board of Trustees reference seems to state clearly that there are two boards - the Church Board of Eduation and the Board of Trustees for BYU, which Heber J. Grant streamlined by putting the exact same people on both boards.
• But this reference (Brigham Young University: The First One Hundred Years, 1975: v. 1 Appendix 4 p. 535-543 ) from that link states that the "Board of Trustees same as the General Church Board of Education after 1939 reconstruction" not two boards with the same members
• The latter view seems to be supported by the current church description of the board, by only listing one board and calling it the "Board of Trustees" * Church Educational System Administration
• This article which describes the Board's involvement at BYU, seems to identify the group as one board with two names “By design, the chairman of the Church Board of Education and the board of trustees for BYU is the prophet, President Russell M. Nelson. The vice-chairs are his two counselors, President Dallin H. Oaks and President Henry B. Eyring.” and throughout the article only on as the singular "Board"
• AND I AM WRONG
• Found the definitive source Religious Educator Vol. 13 No. 2 · 2012 - The Church Educational System: A Conversation with Roger G. Christensen

  "There are five operating entities within the Church Educational System: Seminaries and Institutes of Religion, which includes the elementary and secondary schools—there’s a fun chapter in history on how that came to be—and then there are the four institutions of higher education: Brigham Young University, BYU–Hawaii, BYU–Idaho, and LDS Business College. So collectively, those five entities are the Church Educational System. Now, there are five separate boards that govern each of those entities. For Seminaries and Institutes, it is the Church Board of Education. For the four other institutions, because they are separate legal entities, it’s a Board of Trustees. The membership on all five boards is the same. And so when we have a meeting, we have one meeting that comprises all five of those boards. But when we do the minutes of those meetings, we have to separate them out, so you have a meeting of the Board of Trustees of Brigham Young University, the Board of Trustees of BYU–Hawaii, the Board of Trustees of BYU–Idaho, the Board of Trustees of LDS Business College, and the Church Board of Education."

• So I answered my own question. There 5 boards with the same members that make decisions about 5 different legal entities, hold joint meetings, but issue separate minutes for each legal entity. --Trödel 22:10, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, had I seen this sooner, could have tried to help, but you found the answer. Side note: there are now actually six entities, with the creation of BYU-Pathway Worldwide in 2017. ChristensenMJ (talk) 22:45, 5 April 2022 (UTC)