Talk:Missa cantata

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Insertion of unsourced statements[edit]

Would the anonymous user from New England please read WP:V and stop inserting unsourced statements such as "The descriptive phrase is always found in documents of the Holy See prior to 1958". Even before 1958, "Missa cantata" was the usual phrase. Even a century earlier it was so. For instance, you will find the normal name, "Missa Cantata", in this 1871 text. I have chosen a text in English, since you seem not to know Latin. being unable to distinguish between "Missa cantata" (which means sung Mass or chanted Mass) and "Missa in cantu" (which you think also means "sung Mass"), and since you think "revera cantu profert" means "takes upon himself". A more recent instance (again in English) of "Missa Cantata" (more than once) is this 1906 publication. I leave aside the use of "Missa cantata" in the pre-1962 Roman Missal itself (in Latin). One or two instances of longer phrases doesn't mean "always".

It is doubtless a valid remark to say that "Missa Cantata" originated as a shortening of a fuller description, but it is scarcely justifiable to say that "Missa Cantata", in view of its use in official documents of the Holy See, especially the 1960 Code of Rubrics, is (now) merely "a shorthand". John XXIII's definition of "Missa Cantata" should be enough. It isn't that he merely "grouped together rubrics" about Solemn Mass and Missa Cantata: he gave definitions of Solemn Mass, Missa Cantata, and Low Mass. Soidi (talk) 21:15, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize for the tone of the above, which I wrote when annoyed at what I imagined to be an accusation of bad faith: of deliberately falsifying the translation of the passage in the Code of Rubrics. Can we agree on some translation? I know of no published English translation of the Code, and I have found none on the Internet. In particular, how do you propose that we render in English the Latin phrases "Missa in cantu" (literally, Mass in chant, Mass in singing, Mass in song) and "Missa cantata" (literally, chanted Mass, sung Mass). I don't think we can translated "Missa in cantu" as "sung Mass", since that is the same as the meaning of the phrase "Missa cantata", which is here distinguished from "Missa in cantu". I proposed to put "Mass with chant" for "Missa in cantu" and to leave "Missa cantata" in its Latin form, which is the familiar name even in English, but capitalized in accordance with English custom ("Missa Cantata"). As you know, Latin documents of the Holy See often follow the system used for titles in, e.g., French: capitalizing only the first word of the title. Can you suggest a better translation of "Missa in cantu"? Soidi (talk) 14:57, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Use of candles[edit]

I have removed the reference to a Missa cantata requiring 4 candles. Either 4 candles or 6 candles are commonly used. The Catholic Encyclopedia of 1908 is not a suitable source for quoting rubrics. The 1960 code of rubrics makes no mention of how many candles should be used - only that the number be that required by the kind of Mass. Sue De Nimes (talk) 18:42, 8 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]