Talk:Nigger in the woodpile

This article was previously nominated for deletion. The result of the discussion was Keep.

Linguistics Low‑importance

	Linguistics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Linguistics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of linguistics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LinguisticsWikipedia:WikiProject LinguisticsTemplate:WikiProject LinguisticsLinguistics articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

United States Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

African diaspora Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject African diaspora, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of African diaspora on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.African diasporaWikipedia:WikiProject African diasporaTemplate:WikiProject African diasporaAfrican diaspora articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

English Language Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject English Language, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to the English language on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.English LanguageWikipedia:WikiProject English LanguageTemplate:WikiProject English LanguageEnglish Language articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

Discrimination Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Discrimination, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Discrimination on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DiscriminationWikipedia:WikiProject DiscriminationTemplate:WikiProject DiscriminationDiscrimination articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

Untitled[edit]

keep this page. It is uselful to know the history behind the phrase as it seems American origin and living in the UK I didn't know its origin. There was a recent newsstory of someone executive using the phrase http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=135422007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.141.83.47 (talk • contribs) 11:39, 26 January 2007

Prod & prod 2 remove, sent to AfD. --RedHillian 12:45, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is not in common use in the US, to my knowledge and I would really like that sentence changed or cited asap. --mroconnell (talk) 19:01, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Many historical phrases are not in use today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.87.233.255 (talk) 02:04, 13 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Use in popular culture?[edit]

I have a vague recollection of reading a variant on this phrase in several Louis L'Amor wild western / frontier novels. "There's more than one African in this woodpile." If someone finds a citation for this, please add it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:B290:6700:6899:7D96:6B33:CB7F (talk) 17:13, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There's a Divine Comedy song, 'Something for the Weekend', that uses a variant of this phrase ('there’s something in the woodshed'), I wondered if this was worth including, and if there should be a 'use in popular culture' section for entries like that? Sorry but I'm not confident enough to do it/make the decision myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.154.192 (talk • contribs) 23:19, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The expression is used in the lyrics of the Supertramp song "Potter." I don't recall hearing the expression used elsewhere besides that. It's not very common. Dansan99 (talk) 00:34, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The term 'there's something in the woodshed' in The Divine Comedy song 'Something for the weekend' refers to the classic literature book "Cold Comfort Farm" where Aunt Aga refers to "something nasty in the woodshed" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_Comfort_Farm. Since it is set in Sussex, UK, it seems to not be referring to escaping slaves. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.44.19.228 (talk) 13:36, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

President Carter[edit]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't US president Jimmy Carter remark about his supposed ancestry in this way? Kortoso (talk) 20:36, 19 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It was Jimmy's brother, Billy.

http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1988/Billy-Carter-Dies-At-51-Funeral-Monday/id-3eb4de3f3ee3ffb2076385efde2a1f06

Finally, his remarks went too far. When a black California politician named Carter Gilmore joked that they might be related, Billy responded, I hate to say this, but we've all left a nigger in the woodpile somewhere. At a dinner honoring Atlanta Braves pitcher Phil Niekro, Billy called him a bastardized Jew and a Polack.

Kortoso (talk) 20:42, 19 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

71.222.50.224 (talk) 04:38, 26 April 2022 (UTC)It doesn't matter if Jimmy Carter used the phrase because if you're left wing, you can be as racist as you want, and its totally ok[reply]

Since when did Carter had anything to do with left-wing politics? Dimadick (talk) 10:10, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Only when compared to, e.g., Ronald Reagan. Republicans see any political stripe other than their own as basically satanic and probably communist.

Nuttyskin (talk) 05:01, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Nigger in the woodpile. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140716173717/http://wnyt.com/article/stories/S1145858.shtml?cat=300 to http://wnyt.com/article/stories/S1145858.shtml?cat=300

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 11:15, 22 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Interracial parentage meaning[edit]

Published definition explaining 1937 usage in glossary Pendergast, Bruce. Everyman's Guide to the Mysteries of Agatha Christie. Victoria : Trafford, 2004, p. 362.

The phrase refers to an African American hiding in your woodpile, you have not noticed him but you will when your wife gives birth to a baby with dark skin. Or your wood is being stolen. Or your slave is being smuggled north to Canada... Also African Americans were killed many ways other than lynchings. There are many photographs of mobs around a woodpile burning an African American.

This sense of the phrase was well known in the 19th century. It is the one that comes to mind in early films and songs... EDLIS Café 22:15, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

It is not included because there is no evidence that this explanation is true. It seems to date from no earlier than the 1970s AFAIK. 82.20.31.86 (talk) 23:41, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"A nigger in the woodpile may refer to an unacknowledged African American ancestry somewhere on the family tree of a person who is"white." The phrase was used on the floor of the South Carolina legislature when it debated legal definitions of whiteness and blackness in the late 19th century. One legislator warned against too expansive a definition of blackness because it threatened to disfranchise a fourth of the legislature. Many of the legislators, he said, had a nigger in their woodpile!"

"...written as early as 1830 but first published in 1843 (S- Foster Damon, Series of Old American Songs, No. 2>7)y the third stanza of which begins : Tucker in de wood pile — can't count 'lebben. Put in a fedder bed — him gwine to hebben.

'Nigger in the Woodpile.' From Mrs. C. C. Thomas, who learned it from her mother, Mrs. Woodward. Nigger in the woodpile, couldn't count to seven. Put him in a feather bed and he'll think he's got to heaven."

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/1828#11130301

EDLIS Café 15:17, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

I had only heard it as a Pickaninny in the wood pile. As in "Cut down any family tree in the south and you're likely to find a pickaninny in the wood pile". 104.34.92.150 (talk) 23:31, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Aside from the common meaning, I believe it can also refer to a white person with a small amount of black ancestry, less than that covered by mixed-race terminology. Xcalibur (talk) 14:30, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Origins with quotes, Unverified[edit]

1852 in Kans. Hist. Quarterly (1942) XI. 235 - "No `nigger in the wood pile' here..; white men are at the bottom of this speculation."

1862 Congress. Globe 3 June 2527/1 - "[These gentlemen] spoke two whole hours..in showing-to borrow an elegant phrase, the paternity of which belongs, I think, to their side of the House,-that there was `a nigger in the wood-pile'."

1897 Congress. Rec. 18 Feb. App. 61/1 - "Like a great many others ignorant of facts, he finds `a nigger in the wood pile' when there is neither wood pile nor nigger."

1911 Woodrow Wilson in Outlook 11 Aug. 944 - "If you go through the schedules you will find some nigger in every wood pile."

[1843 in H. Nathan D. Emmett page 315: ‘Nigger on[sic] the wood-pile barkin like a dog.’] [1845 in H. Nathan D. Emmett page 292: ‘Nigger on de Wood Pile]

1847 — in ‘DARE’: ‘A Nigger in De Fence.’ This phrase was never so perfectly illustrated as by the law of Pennsylvania respecting the recovery of fugitive slaves.’

Nathan, Hans (1962). Dan Emmett and the Rise of Early Negro Minstrelsy. Norman: University of Oklahoma Press. (pages 195, 315, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.20.31.86 (talk) 23:57, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Origin" section is speculative and poorly sourced[edit]

The "Origin" section includes this sentence: "The evidence is slight, but it is presumed that they were derived from actual instances of the concealment of fugitive slaves in their flight north under piles of firewood or within hiding places in stone walls." The opening emphasis on the lack of firm evidence is good, but the "it is presumed" is not good: Who is doing this presuming? One of the two sources cited in support of this speculation is the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) entry, which actually offers nothing that supports this speculation. There's a lot of storytelling surrounding the Underground Railroad (quilt and song codes, etc.), and I think it's likely that this discussion is another example of that storytelling. Jk180 (talk) 14:21, 16 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Derek Daly's Story[edit]

Following up on the Derek Daly story, it appears this article is espousing misinformation as his page contradicts the facts presented here. I've added a few sentences taken from Derek Daly's article here as a stop-gap measure, but a major rework and revision of that section is needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:3D08:AA80:25F0:F0B0:D6F1:1A6C:2430 (talk) 03:07, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Anotehr use to add[edit]

Found another use, in The Phacifist by Arthur C. Clarke, whoch can be seen on wikisource. 216.49.146.89 (talk) 05:04, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See below. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:30, 7 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

William Guy Carr[edit]

Was used in the 1958 book Pawns in the Game by William Guy Carr 67.70.57.107 (talk) 19:22, 7 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well, William Guy Carr is certainly a notable naval officer, author, and conspiracy theorist (and possibly antisemite). But surely we don't expect the article to list every instance in every work by any notable? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:29, 7 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]