Talk:Satay

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 13 April 2020 and 8 June 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jessicanastasia. Peer reviewers: Tang Weibin.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:42, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Airline Mention[edit]

is it really relevant to include mentions of which airlines serve this? --jonasaurus 05:09, 13 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and removed the line, which went as follows: Like Malaysia Airlines, Singapore's national carrier, Singapore Airlines also serves satay in the First and Raffles Class as an appetizer.--jonasaurus 05:11, 13 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, because Satay is difficult to prepare for inflight meals, and airlines who take the trouble to serve them indicate their importance to the image of the airlines and the respective cultures they represent. In addition, knowing that both MAS and SIA serves the dish only to first class passengers is also food for though.--Huaiwei 07:06, 13 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

definition in first paragraph[edit]

You should define Satay first, then give an origin. What satay is shouldn't be hidden in the middle of the entry.

Former colonist Holland[edit]

Please explain what "former colonist Holland" means. Do you mean satay was popular in Holland back in Europe? Thanks. --Sengkang 04:00, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My understanding is that it means satay is popular in the Netherlands/Holland, which is a former colonist of both Malaysia and Indonesia... According to the peanut butter article, their version of peanut butter pindakaas is more akin to satay sauce then peanut butter Nil Einne 00:45, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If satay is still popular in Holland now (I doubt so? or is it just its peanut butter, which tastes like satay sauce and is different from satay per se?), it may be more appropriate to just phrase the sentence as "Satay (also written saté) is a dish that may have originated in Sumatra or Java, Indonesia, but which is popular in many Southeast Asian countries such as Malaysia, Singapore, and Thailand as well as Holland." —Sengkang 02:52, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Satay is still very popular in the Netherlands, ever since it was introduced somewhere in the 1950's (through the colonies, yes). There are many Chinese-Indosian restaurants here, mostly like snack bars. Satay is sold as part of a meal, or as a snack (in regular supermarkets (in frozen packages) and snack bars as well). It consists usually of marinated pork or chicken meat, and (almost) always with a (more or less spicey) peanut sauce (which differs from the Dutch peanut butter - the sauce is spicier, usually a bit creamier and always much thinner). --JoanneB 11:36, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

@sengkang K i see others answered your question before me, hope it's clear now? I included that it's the former colonist as to explain why it is that popular in a country so out of line with the others mentioned. And please do not revert anonymous edits anymore without (giving) a reason, it is in conflict with wikipedia policy. --62.251.90.73 22:19, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I had advertently reverted it as it did not appear consistent with the notion of the Southeast Asian countries stated in the sentence. Thanks for the clarification. I've also reworded the sentence as appropriately as possible. —Sengkang 04:09, 16 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

add a review link[edit]

any objection I add this link to the article? [1] 219.74.59.96 01:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is a commercial link that is merely an adverstisement. Please see WP:EL. Please don't add it as it will be removed. Sorry. Merbabu 04:21, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I posted the wrong link it's [2] a consumer's review of satay at alexandra market (Sites with other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article, such as reviews and interviews.)219.74.59.96 01:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Satay=Triple Stacked?[edit]

I find the sentence "Some believe that satay was invented by Chinese immigrants who sold the skewered barbecue meat on the street. Their argument is that the word satay means "triple stacked" (三疊) in Amoy dialect, and indeed, satay is often made with three flat lozenges of meat" disturbing.

Why? Because sate is among my favorite cuisines (beside Soto), and I am always eager to try various kinds of regional sates in Indonesia. But I don't recall any sate with triple stack of meat. There usually more than 3 stacks of meat, if it was just 3 of them I would feel like I was being ripped off or something. I'm sure my fellow Indonesians would feel the same thing.

Oh, and "flat"? What kind of sate is that, with flattened meat? The only kind of sate I recall being flat is Sate Usus, which is skewered intestines, but never with meats.Matahari Pagi 06:52, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Satay is not invented by Chinese because the Chinese migrants are from Guangdong or Fujian provinces, which had no traditions of barbecues (even Cantonese barbecued foods like barbecued pork "char siew" are not made and served in skewers). It is considered in the Chinese world as invented in Southeast Asia without any ethnic Chinese input. Perhaps it was the Chinese merchants who brought the dishes to the non-Malay world like Vietnam, Thailand, and Burma. No Chinese cookbooks published in the 1980s or 90s raised that spectre. --JNZ 07:51, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
With all respect, Satay takes a slightly different form in Singapore, Thailand and Malaysia than it does in Indonesia. In these places, it does most often appear in the form of three lozenges of meat. InfernoXV 09:16, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Then it should be mentioned in the article that that the sentence applies only for Singaporean satay :) Matahari Pagi 04:30, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Um, no. Notice I said it applies to 'Singapore, Thailand and Malaysia'. InfernoXV 18:12, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Everywhere I go in Malaysia, satay has always been at least 4 pieces of meat. I've never seen a Chinese selling satay, or a Chinese food similar to satay (i.e. skewered barbecued meat). More importantly, the peanut sauce is the main identity of satay.

Satay Originated From Malay, that is "Satai" or pronounced by Javanese as "Sate"[edit]

Actually, "satay" is Malay pure traditional food. It came from the "satai" word. In Javanese "ai" in "satai" often pronounced as "e"(ay).

One more thing, satay actually often has 4(four) flat lozenges of meat. Nevertheless, some hawkers in Indonesia prefer to sell 3(three) stacks of meat in one skewer(lidi). This is due to decrease the cost of producing "satay". So, there is nothing to compare with the chinese word.

I agree with ---JNZ 07:51, 9 August 2007 (UTC). "Satay" is not invented by chinese. Instead, satay entered the non-Malay cultures such as "kaya" jam, and "cendol".[reply]

In Malaysia, there has one kind of food which is 4(four)skewered and grilled before eat. It is like "otak-otak". It has 4(four) flat of sata in one skewer. This is the evidence that "satay" is always sell with 4(four)stacks of meat like "sata"(the Malay traditional food in Malaysia) Mr. Knows (talk) 05:38, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There's no word "satai" in Malay language, the Malays also pronounce it sa-te. User JNZ is a chinese from New Zealand with minimal knowledge of Malay language, doubt your input carry any weight. The food sata is from Kelantan and Terengganu, and the similarity with satay is too superficial to be considered as "evidence". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.71.170.249 (talk) 08:29, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Satai is an adjustion to Malay phonotactics that didn't (doesn't?) allow 'e' and 'o' in coda. Hence any loanwords with them were diphthongized into 'ai' and 'au', respectively. Nevertheless, 'satai' is pronounced 'sate' until this day, which signals that it was a loan rather than native coinage. Masjawad99 (talk) 02:17, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation[edit]

A pronunciation guide at the intro would be nice... 90.240.242.224 (talk) 18:28, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is a pronunciation guide at the intro now (pronounced /ˈsæteɪ/ SA-tay). But it seems to me, that this is the pronunciation of an American from Texas? As far as I know it is pronounced [saˈtɛ] by locals in Southeast Asia. --hdamm (talk)
The Malaysian and Indonesian pronunciation would be the "Texan" variant containing pretty much the same vowels as in the word "kaffee" in German. The variant [saˈtɛ] would be the pronunciation in Thailand. Takeaway (talk) 11:08, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is almost exclusively pronounced as [saˈtɛ] in Javanese-speaking areas of Indonesian--where the dish originated. Masjawad99 (talk) 02:20, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Inclusion of South African sosatie?[edit]

The 'sosatie' is one of South Africa's most well-known dishes. Essentially a satay (hence the name) that was brought to the country during the 1600s (when it was a Dutch outpost) by Batavians/Malayasians, who still make up a sizeable community and whose contributions to SA cuisine is undisputed.

Philippine Satay?[edit]

There is no proof that the BBQ kebab in the Philippines is based off of or in any way a variation of the Indonesian satay. If anything the Philippine BBQ is probably an American creation since it uses the English name "BBQ" rather than a Filipino name varaint such as "Satti" in Mindanao. There is also no recorded history of how the Philippine BBQ kebab even came into place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheaxHendible (talk • contribs) 07:29, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have professionally published mainstream academic or journalistic sources which counter those cited in the article? Or can you demonstrate that the sources already cited in the article do not meet our reliable sourcing guidelines? Ian.thomson (talk) 07:58, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
None of the sources currently in the article have anything supporting a relationship between satay/satti and BBQ. I've removed the paragraph about BBQ. --Paul_012 (talk) 08:44, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. Ian.thomson (talk) 08:44, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not exactly American barbecue (Iriga City, Philippines)
As in satay, Philippine barbecues are also traditionally served with pickles as side dishes (acar in Malay/Indonesian, atchara in the Philippines)

Additional Sources (the previous sources already make it clear how satti and barbecue are the same dish under different names):

  • Edgar Soon (2009). Pairing Wine with Asian Food. Monsoon Books. ISBN 9789814358941.
  • Ellen Brown (14 June 2016). "Smart Cooking: Philippine cuisine shaped by many influences". Providence Journal. Retrieved 8 February 2017.
  • Connie Veneracion. "Grilled skewered pork marinated in lemongrass, honey and fish sauce". Casa Veneracion. Retrieved 8 February 2017.
  • "Satay Recipes from the Philippines". ChickenSatay.org. Retrieved 8 February 2017.

Restoring. Just because the name is English doesn't mean it's American. Nothing in American cuisine resembles this dish.

What the Filipinos in Zamboanga call Satti is identical to what the rest of the Philippines call "barbecue" (or as spelled natively barbikyu), and it is just as ubiquitous in the Philippines as street food as in the rest of Southeast Asia. The only real main difference is that among Christian Filipinos, it is usually made from pork or chicken. It is also either usually just dipped into a common sauce holder after cooking (i.e. it's not served with sauce in a separate bowl) or isn't served with sauce at all, since it's usually eaten while standing (hence it's association with the ketupat).

It is not the western barbecue. It's simply called "barbecue" because it is the closest approximate dish in English and a more familiar word for English-speaking Filipinos. Bamboo skewers themselves (used in any dish) are called "barbecue sticks" in Philippine English, underlying how different the term "barbecue" is used in the Philippines in contrast to actual American barbecues (something most Filipinos are unaware of, as evidenced in the latter link).

Essentially, when Filipinos say "barbecue" we mean the satay - marinated small pieces of meat, skewered and grilled then usually brushed or dipped in a sauce. Western-style barbecues do exist in the Philippines and are arguably far more popular, but they are known under a very different Spanish-derived name: lechon -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 17:42, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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CNN source[edit]

@Czl4721: The source you have provided is helpful and makes for good historical information for the prose in the section for Singapore on this article. But it also paints a picture of the dish no longer being ubiquitous as it once was in Singapore, unlike Malaysia or Indonesia where it originated, and in fact the location they referenced is the "last satay club" in the country. In other words, in the present day is a niche dish and not quite a dish associated with Singaporean cuisine as it exists today from a national or international perspective. Haleth (talk) 07:33, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge of Satti (food) into Satay[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result of this discussion was merged. Heanor (talk) 09:44, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Appears to be the same topic (Satti/Satay) Spudlace (talk) 00:44, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support merger to Satay#Philippines. --Scudsvlad (talk) 14:50, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge Makes sense to me, especially because dishes with significant overlap make more sense in the greater context. It's helpful to readers unfamiliar with SE cuisines, and more interesting to people to are. Cheers, Estheim (talk) 06:50, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above --Lenticel (talk) 08:00, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support --Heanor (talk) 09:14, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

March 2021[edit]

In 2003 this article is made to provide the information about satay, which is the Indonesian meat skewer, and according to the citation sources satay indeed originated from Indonesia. Thus, the short description should be remained the same, eventhough nowadays satay already became the associated cuisines among Southeast Asian nations. Thank you. Eiskrahablo (talk) 11:30, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

How or why the article was written in 2003 is irrelevant to the article as it exists today in 2021 and the issue beforehand. According to Austronesier, your idea of "summarizing" involves the "elimination of explicit mention of any countries other than Indonesia". This article is not about Satay in Indonesia. You also altered directly quoted text from the cited source, which is unacceptable per WP:V. So it's the same issue as in Talk:Ayam goreng from what I I see. Would be good to hear what the other editors think of your recent edits. @Davidelit, Xcelltrasi, and Gunkarta: Haleth (talk) 23:23, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

US President Jimmy Carter[edit]

"A popular misconception is that the term "satay" is a peanut sauce. Indeed, US President Jimmy Carter, whose personal wealth was founded on farming peanuts, famously changed his middle name to "Satay" in 1967 to honour the source of his fortune."

I don't contribute to wikipedia and I don't know how to edit or flag this, but this is unsourced and also the funniest claim i have ever seen on wikipedia. to whoever added this, thankyou, you are my hero. 180.150.80.138 (talk) 12:15, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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