Talk:St. Louis–style barbecue

This article was nominated for deletion on 3 July 2011 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

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On 25 April 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from St. Louis-style barbecue to St. Louis–style barbecue. The result of the discussion was moved.

Untitled[edit]

Pork or Beef is more common? A different bbq styles page lists beef as the prefered st louis bbq. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_variations_of_barbecue#Missouri Which is it? Whitebox 03:39, 21 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

St. Louis Pork Steak and St. Louis-Style Ribs are both pork products, as are bratwurst and salsiccia. No one has yet named a cut of beef intended for barbeque after St. Louis, according to any research I've done. There seems to be a lot of beef (steak, burgers) grilled in the St. Louis area, but I've not found any places that feature barbequed beef (i.e.; beef barbequed on a grill with sauce), nor reliable references to indicate such.

Please visit the following: Pork Spare Ribs May Be The Most Famous of St Louis Style BBQ , But Pork Steaks Are The Local Favorite moproducer 15 November 2009

Does anyone actually eat crispy snoots? I've never even heard of them & I've lived in STL my whole life. Don't know anyone who knows of them... Joliefille 06:10, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Crispy snoots seem to overlap with St. Louis soul food, and as such aren't available everywhere. Probably an acquired taste too. Whitebox (talk) 18:52, 18 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Crispy snoots are a featured menu item at Roper's Ribs, a restaurant in north St. Louis County that recently received the Steve Harvey "Hoodie" Award for best barbeque. They are also featured at several smaller grilling establishments on the south East Side. Snoots are a pork product, cooked over an open grill and served with barbeque sauce; they certainly qualify as barbeque...but then, many other barbeque items can claim a place on a soul food menu, as well.

Ethnically, I'm a Caucasion, but I can certainly handle a plate of crispy snoots, especially Ropers. There's also nothing wrong at all with soul food, and I can eat more than my share. moproducer 15 November 2009

Actually this article is incorrect. Pork steaks are cut from pork butt. Pork steaks are sometimes cooked in the manner described - browned over charcoal and simmered in BBQ sauce. A better, and common, way, is to cook them with indirect heat - place a pan of water on the coals, the meat on grill above the water, and with the cover on the grill.

Peter Petesally (talk) 17:01, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

FYI: Pork Butt is the same as the Pork Shoulder. When I lived in STL, you could find crispy snoots on Delmar east of Skinker. -wb —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aikidoka6039 (talk • contribs) 06:17, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Added Salsiccia to the page by changing the Brat section to Sausage. BBQ Salsciccia is just as popular as the bbq brat in STL and is probably more unique to the area given that most other regions do not grill and sauce Italian sausage while brats are a staple on grills throughout the midwest if not the country.--JG Hitzert (talk) 20:18, 9 February 2009 (UTC)(talk)[reply]

style, sources[edit]

I tagged this for style because it reads like a lifestyle feature, and for sources because it doesn't say, up front, precisely what distinguishes StL BBQ from other kinds, and on whose authority the distinction's made. DavidOaks (talk) 01:36, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

DavidOaks, there's little out there at this time in the form of published works to make solid verification or distinction. I realize that this is not scientific, but the article is certainly far and above any a priori claims, speaking as a 42-year resident of St. Louis and one who has spent significant time in St. Louis-area barbeque haunts, butcher shops, parking-lot barbeque fundraisers and local supermarkets. There is plenty in the article to demonstrate what distinguishes St. Louis barbeque from other types...you really need to read past the first line or two.

A number of people participated in constructing what you read here, with a surprising small amount of disagreement. If I knew that all Wikipedia articles contained this kind of technical veracity, I'd have utter confidence in the entire website. Please consider that references have to begin somewhere, and we are breaking new ground by bringing St. Louis-style barbeque to the rest of the world.

For further references, maybe you could try St. Louis Style Barbeque Sauce Recipe moproducer 15 November 2009

Writing[edit]

Wow, this article is so unclear. I read it and have less of an idea of what differentiates St. Louis style BBQ from other styles than I did before I came to the page. Wiki-fail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.229.115.82 (talk) 00:52, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Recommending deletion[edit]

I hastily deleted this page and redirected it to here. It was reverted, since I deleted it without discussion. Okay. So I'm recommending it for deletion, based on the following criteria:

Notability. Wikipedia's own list of main regional styles of barbecue in the US doesn't list St. Louis. That's not grounds for deletion in itself, but the fact that three of the four styles listed there (Memphis, Carolinas, Texas) don't seem worthy of having their own article makes me think that this isn't worthy either.
Quality. Lots of phrases here aren't encyclopedia-like, in my opinion. "Slow cooking over low heat is the key to culinary success here, with a good, smoky grill." "The result is a surprisingly tender and tasty entrée that is the centerpiece (along with a good St. Louis beer) of many a backyard party in suburban St. Louis." "A typical menu at a St. Louis-style barbecue includes..." "Often, the ice cream component will appear in the form of Ted Drewes Frozen Custard, a St. Louis tradition since 1930." "When not practicing the art and science in their own backyards, St. Louisans like..." etc.
Citations. There are very few, including for most of the phrases I quoted above. Two of the three references are dead links.

Basically, if you took all of the essay-like and uncited material out, you would have something like what I wrote on the page I redirected the article to. That would be a serious "stub" of an article, don't you think? At best, maybe the cuisine of St. Louis as a whole deserves its own article? I don't know. Comments are appreciated. Elchip (talk) 16:41, 3 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

the cut is the thing[edit]

This article is REALLY bad. All the crap in the first half-dozen paragraphs is of secondary importance. The chief thing which differentiates St. Louis style pork ribs from other types of ribs is NOT the manner of cooking or sauce, but it is the cut of the meat. In St. Louis style ribs, the rib tips are removed in order to create a rack which is more uniform and square. This means St. Louis style ribs are a little smaller and contain a little less meat than other rib "cuts," but many chefs prefer them as they cook more uniformly, when served individually all ribs are more or less the same size, and they present on the plate better. This information should be presented at the top as a summary of what constitutes St. Louis style ribs, and then follow with other information.

See this page for more information on the cut.

Symmerhill (a.k.a. Summerhill) (talk) 16:59, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Symmerhill do you have a reliable source? valereee (talk) 13:49, 30 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 16 January 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved, nonstarter. wbm1058 (talk) 00:47, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

St. Louis-style barbecue → St. Louis–style barbecue – Per MOS:ENDASH. I would do it myself, but a redirect already exists in the opposite direction, and I forget if I can do it in this circumstance. My apologies if I can. DocWatson42 (talk) 23:58, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The hyphen is correct; modifiers take hyphens, not en-dashes, as implied by MOS:ENDASH. An en-dash here would signify an equal relationship between "St. Louis" and something called "style barbecue". Dekimasuよ! 00:18, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Hyphens are used for compound modifiers, per WP:HYPHEN. Calidum 00:33, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Compound adjectives use hyphens, not dashes. Rreagan007 (talk) 03:16, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Wiki Education assignment: Black Foodways in the United States[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2023 and 5 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Dorothylamour123 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Smoothieaficionado, Earthlover36, 4NGumpwiki.

— Assignment last updated by Mantaray2 (talk) 18:24, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 25 April 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 08:44, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

St. Louis-style barbecue → St. Louis–style barbecue – MOS:SUFFIXDASH. This was proposed 3 years ago and rejected but it seems like the Manual of Style has been solidified since then. The hyphen in the compound modifier becomes an en dash because of the space in St. Louis. As far as I can tell it's completely analagous to the given example Turks and Caicos–based company. –CWenger (^ • @) 21:15, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom and MOS:SUFFIXDASH, like "Turks and Caicos–based company", "St. Louis" is the name of a place, and it has a space in it. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 05:27, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support – this is, for better or worse, what MOS:SUFFIXDASH recommends. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:08, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.