Talk:Supplì

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Suppli'[edit]

In a Roman suppli' there are peas too. CycoPaul-13 (talk) 10:33, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not always. Alex2006 (talk) 11:20, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Origin[edit]

Hello, it is well known that supplì is the corruption of the French word surprise, but this does not mean that the dish was born in France. Moreover, the sources brought by the ip only explain the origin of the word, and not the origin of the dish. Continuing with original research, one could remember that in Sicily there are very similar rice balls, (the arancini). It could be then that a sicilian chef of Marshall Murat came to Rome introducing a variation of that dish giving a French name, because of the similarity with a croquette. Back to reality, in order to support a French origin of the dish one has to find an 18th century French recipe of a bread crumbed rice ball. Bye, Alex2006 (talk) 13:10, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Antonin Carême published several recipes of rice croquettes in 1815: https://books.google.at/books?id=R_aqIQ3JKqcC&pg=PA88&dq=%22croquettes+de+riz%22+%2B+%22car%C3%AAme%22+%2B+%221815%22&hl=fr&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&ov2=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwii2fuRtoT_AhUlSvEDHZZqAlQQ6AF6BAgEEAM#v=onepage&q=%22croquettes%20de%20riz%22%20%2B%20%22car%C3%AAme%22%20%2B%20%221815%22&f=false 2A02:8388:8C04:6D80:1DCF:9C81:5DA:3BF1 (talk) 17:31, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot, but to me it seems that they are Italian recipes (I see parmesan, and the next recipe is macaroni alla milanese) :-). Joking aside, the origin of the supplì (Napoleon, The French Soldiers) is a classic example of a legend about the origin of a dish, and derives from the French origin of the appellation. (on this subject in general, you can read the book 'Denominazione di origine inventata' by Alberto Grandi which reveals the mechanism behind these pseudo-origins). The first known mention of the dish dates back to 1874 ('soplis di riso') on the menu of a Roman trattoria, and the first recipe dates back as far as 1929 in the Ada Boni manual. As for the technique, one of the strongholds of Roman cuisine was (and is) deep fried food. You can read about it in 'Rome contemporaine' by Edmond About, which dates back to 1861:

Au détour de la rue, une grande boutique en plein air offrait à mon choix dix montagnes dorées dans de grands plats de cuivre étamé, couverts d'inscriptions gothiques. La poêle énorme bouillonnait à deux pas; la marchandise était chaude et croquante. Je pris un petit pain à la boulangerie voisine, un verre de limonade à la fontaine la plus proche des poissons frits, des artichauts frits et des beignets frits me composèrent un repas divin. Jamais peut-être je n'ai mieux déjeuné à Rome, parce que la friture se fait dans l'huile, sans aucun mélange de ce beurre violent qui empoisonne tout.

This is a description of a basic version of the fritto alla romana, where the beignets frits (fried in olive oil, not in butter) are the supplì.

Due to that, I don't know whether the name hints actually to something learnt from the French or is just a prestige name given to a local dish, since Italian cuisine in the 19th century was heavily Frenchised (read about that "L'Arte della Cucina in Italia" by Emilio Faccioli). What is worth mentioning in the article is the etymology, which is clearly French, with its meaning. All the rest is unsupported or OR. Cheers, Alex2006 (talk) 14:37, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Alex, very interesting response. Maybe, you could include the story about French troops introducing the croquettes in Rome as an hypothesis. I agree with you, it is now difficult to know the truth but the name of the dish is French and the croquettes are also a French dish, it's a lot of coincidence. And, it's not just deep fry food, it's a preparation made with rice that you put in flour, eggs and bread crumbs (like in the recipe of Carême). Cheers 2A02:8388:8C04:6D80:2C62:8EC6:E00A:3AA4 (talk) 17:22, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]