User talk:Amakuru/Archive 7

Sources reliable for purpose

Hi, greetings. Congratulations on becoming an admin I think. However "usage in English reliable sources is primarily without the diacritic.[2][3][4]" are you sure? The 3 sources you linked in the Brazilian footballer RM look like they aren't that reliable as an authority on Portuguese accents, and pt.wp has the accent. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:16, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

@In ictu oculi: thanks for the congratulations. As it happens I've been looking around at debates regarding diacritics for foreign language names this morning, and I'm trying to figure out if the community has a particular view on them. MOS:DIACRITICS and WP:UE tell us that in general we should defer to English language reliable sources. WP:FOREIGN is a little more circumspect, telling us that we "normally" retain the diacritics. It does seem like some more discussion may be needed, as there is no uniformity at present, and clearly you feel strongly that even names like Ana Ivanovic, which appear almost exclusively without a diacritic in English sources, should be given in native language form. My instinct is to disagree with you, I must say, per WP:UE, but I'd be interested in more discussion on the point. As for the Brazilian footballer in question, it comes down to the same debate - using the WP:UE approach, it doesn't matter whether the sources are reliable authorities on Portuguese accents, because we are the English encyclopedia and we go with whatever English reliable sources say (be they expert on Portuguese or not). Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 08:36, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

WP:FRMOS is long established on French fonts and sets the tone. There was an anti-diacritic lobby around 2010 which left hundreds of bulk RMs three RfCs 1 related to Ice Hockey and 2 for tennis all massively WP:SNOW in favour of using sources which are reliable for purpose as defined by WP:RELIABLE SOURCES. Four notable anti-Unicode activists were community banned, and the entire article corpus has been peaceful since. With just one foreigner at a British name as a one fingered salute to the rest of the project. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:47, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

And yes of course I would like the blonde Serbian to be treated like the rest of the BLP corpus. Who wouldn't other than someone seeking to flip the other 20-25% of 4 million articles affected? In ictu oculi (talk) 08:51, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

I'm not really convinced the issue is nearly as settled as you imply it is... what about Novak Djokovic as another example? The most recent move request there appeared to quite overwhelmingly reject diacritics (albeit that it was me that closed it, but I think I read the consensus right). Whenever this issue arises for high profile people, the consensus is often for WP:UE, while a lot of those a bit more under the radar are quietly moved and nobody thinks too much about it. Here for example: [1]. Almost no English sources use an Š for his name, but we do.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:01, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

I would humbly suggest reading the hockey and tennis RfCs as the Djokovic question is the first question someone new to the subject invariably asks. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:14, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

@In ictu oculi: please could you point me at those RfCs? I'm not sure where they are. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 10:37, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

WP:ICEHOCKEYNAMES WP:TENNISNAMES WP:TENNISNAMES2. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:43, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Hmm, seems the earliest RFC shortcut is different. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ice_Hockey#Wikiproject_notice has the result. Re Dj, that's an exception with some hangovers due to Serbian alphabet reform in the 1920s. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:46, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

If I may, my take is that there's clear consensus that diacritics can be used. I'd go so far as to say that in most cases involving notable figures who aren't covered by many English sources, the consensus is to use the diacritics of the native language. Disagreement is greater for more prominent figures, especially those living or working in English-speaking countries. In those cases, the argument usually comes down to sources, and in cases where English sources routinely avoid diacritics, the consensus is often against using them on Wikipedia. There are arguments to be had even there; sources may avoid diacritics per their internal style, or because they're low quality. But it's certainly not true that all articles that could have diacritics do use them. Even within tennis, there are plenty of examples besides Ana Ivanovic: Novak Djokovic, Marko Djokovic, Jelena Dokic, Monica Seles - and those are just Serbian tennis players that have had naming discussions.

I'd say the consensus is more along the lines of, diacritics can be used and barring other evidence, should be used.--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:36, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Re: Alexandros Jakupovic

Hello. I wanted to continue that discussion we had about diacritics on the Jakupovic article. I was planning to delete the evidence of that move discussion before it even ended, but fuck it, I guess it can remain as a precedent in future. Anyways, if you wanted to continue that discussion, these were our past two responses:

@Rovingrobert: It doesn't, but that doesn't mean English reliable sources don't use diacritics. In some cases they do: Is Jürgen Klinsmann calling up the right players to the US national team? and in some cases they don't: Ana Ivanovic crashes out of Wimbledon as Maria Sharapova struggles on. WP:UE suggests we should follow whatever is most common in those sources.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:29, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

That precedent you cited disturbs me. It's ambiguous, y'know. How do you say what a common name is when the issue is of diacritics? Take Jürgen Klinsmann, for instance. If you google his name, you will get at least as many results with diacritics as without. How do you say which is more commonly used? How many pages of google searching are enough? In this case, you can see from his social media profiles that he himself uses the diacritics in English. But if he didn't, how would the decision be made? Rovingrobert (talk) 10:48, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

@Amakuru: Please reply if you are interested, or let me know if you are not. Rovingrobert (talk) 01:18, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

@Rovingrobert: apologies for not replying - I don't have a clear answer to your question really. Probably Cuchullain's comment at the bottom of the section above this one summarises best the approach we should be taking and the consensus of the community about how to deal with these cases. There is a preference for using local diacritics where subjects are not well known in English, and where English sources are mixed or not large in number. But where the subject is well known in English countries, or English sources are overwhelmingly and in large number not using diacritics, then we should not (e.g. Novak Djokovic, Ana Ivanovic etc). That's slightly different from my answer above, but I do think the quality of the sources is important. Not whether they have good authority in local diacritics, but whether they are important high quality English language sources. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 06:50, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

@Amakuru: Thanks for the reply. I think even then it gets confusing because it's hard to tell whether the sources have omitted the diacritic(s) out of laziness or a calculated procedure. Rovingrobert (talk) 11:52, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Cycling

Good to meet you today. As discussed, I recommend the following topics and activities:

• Critical Mass
• Cycling in London
• Tweed Run

Andrew D. (talk) 19:17, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll check those out. Great to meet you as well.  — Amakuru (talk) 20:02, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Alexandros Jakupović listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Alexandros Jakupović. Since you had some involvement with the Alexandros Jakupović redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Rovingrobert (talk) 09:05, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

I Swear (John Michael Montgomery song)

Please see [2]. You closed the requeasted move discussion as Moved but the article was not moved. The discussion was to undo a not-discussed and contested move by an now-indeff'ed editor, and the discussion does seem to support moving the article back. Meters (talk) 17:54, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Moves

Could you head over to Talk:Roman Catholicism in Scotland and Talk:Roman Catholicism in Nigeria, too? Similar discussions there. Thanks! Deus vult! Crusadestudent (talk) 08:07, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Also Talk:Mary (mother of Jesus); this one's a closed move request awaiting a technical move. Deus vult! Crusadestudent (talk) 08:19, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi @Crusadestudent: thanks for your message. As far as I can tell, the other Roman Catholicism in... articles haven't yet reached the seven day listing period for closing the move request. If you have a look at WP:RM, you'll see they're currently listed under 13 May and 14 May, while the backlog section (which are those move requests eligible for closure) begins at 11 May. It's therefore best for us to wait 2-3 days for those to play out, just in case someone comes up with other arguments during that time.

As for Mary (mother of Jesus), you've actually made a procedural impropriety there. As the editor who proposed the move, you are not qualified to close it - WP:RMCI gives details, but basically the closer of a move discussion should be an uninvolved party, either an admin or a non-admin in good standing, but not someone who nominated or voted for the request. This is particularly relevant in this case, because it's not a straightforward close - with three opposes and five supports, that's close enough that it could possibly be read as a no consensus decision (we don't just count votes, remember - the quality of arguments is also important). I suggest that you reverse your close now, but I'll be happy to add an extra "support", because I agree that "Mary, mother of Jesus" is commonly enough used to be valid. Hopefully then an uninvolved user would close it as moved, as you wish. Thanks!  — Amakuru (talk) 08:43, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Woops. I'll go change it. Deus vult! Crusadestudent (talk) 10:04, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Ping pong ball story

I do not believe that was either an A7 or a G1. If anything it was an A11. Adam9007 (talk) 23:02, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

@Adam9007: maybe so. I don't know if there's anything in the story beyond the article creator making it up- there are some vaguely similar things out there. But either way, it's deleted... does it matter too much?  — Amakuru (talk) 23:10, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

I saw a few similar things in personal blogs but that's about it. Seems a clear case of WP:MADEUP, though I don't know if A11 applies as I don't know who made it up. Adam9007 (talk) 23:12, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Talk:2×4 Roller Derby

Hi, about the move discussion at Talk:2×4 Roller Derby. I've closed it as "moved" per MOS:TM and I'd like to say why here, because you showed disapproval towards using it as a policy when closing it. The 2x4 Roller Derby is a league and is trademarked (if you see the website). It's also written as 2x4 (using an X/x) all over the official website. I hope this explains my decision on closing it as move. I am not watching this page, please ping me if you respond. Anarchyte (work | talk) 08:09, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

@Anarchyte: I wasn't denying that the 2x4 part was in use by sources, including the official website, but it's the part that says the style that most closely resembles standard English that I would dispute. If it was pronounced two-ex-four, then the standard English would be 2x4. But given that it's to be pronounced two-by-four, it is correct to call it 2×4. A multiplication symbol is not the same as an x. Furthermore, MOS:TM tells us to *disregard* the preference of the trademark owner, not to honour it. That's why it's Macy's rather than macy*s. So the fact that it's all over the official website is irrelevant. I don't know if your close still makes sense when interpreted that way? Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 13:41, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

In the same section on MOS:TM it says "Avoid using special characters that are not pronounced, are included purely for decoration, or simply substitute for English words or letters (e.g., "♥" used for "love", "!" used for "i") or for normal punctuation, unless a significant majority of reliable sources that are independent of the subject consistently include the special character in the subject's name. Similarly, avoid special stylization, such as superscripting or boldface, in an attempt to emulate a trademark."

Wouldn't this go against using a multiplication sign (×) instead of an x, as it's a "special character". Anarchyte (work | talk) 01:13, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

@Anarchyte: well you could call it a special character, but not in my opinion in the sense meant above, because it is not a substitute for an x. Take a look at multiplication sign - The symbol is similar to the lowercase letter x but is a more symmetric saltire, and has different uses. Now if some company like ExxonMobil decided to brand themselves as "E××onMobil" for some reason, that would be a MOS:TM example, becaues they were using the × in place of an x, just like someone using ! in place of i. In that case we would not honour the trademark. But the × in 2×4 is not purely for decoration or in place of an x, it's a proper symbol in its own right, the multiplication symbol, and is the correct thing to put in 2×4 Roller Derby. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 12:53, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

@Amakuru: Alright, fair enough. Thanks for explaining it to me in a simple way. What would you like me to do about the RM now? Anarchyte (work | talk) 06:27, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Never mind. I've removed the close notice and added an oppose vote. I'll let an experience admin handle this case. Anarchyte (work | talk) 09:50, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

@Anarchyte: OK thanks for that. I was still mulling over what advice I should give, because it was a tricky case where the numeric votes apparently don't match what I see as policy, so it's hard for me to know how an independent closer would interpret that. But kudos anyway for getting involved in non-admin closures - the backlog is always so long, that we need as many hands to the pump as we can get.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:25, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

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Elian Gonzalez custody battle

I see that when you moved Elian Gonzalez custody battle you forgot to move Talk:Elian Gonzalez custody battle. I can't move it because it isn't a simple WP:MOR, so it needs your admin juju. --David Biddulph (talk) 01:12, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

@David Biddulph: good catch, thanks. I've moved the talk page now.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:24, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Talk:So Near and yet So Far

Shall you revert the title back to what it was, then reopen the discussion, and then relist it? One person opposed the proposal. --This is George Ho actually (Talk) 02:33, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

@George Ho: I've replied at the talk page. I'm not inclined to reopen the request right now, because I'm not convinced there's any new evidence in play. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 11:38, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Move request not done and removed

Hello,

In this diff, you removed a move request I had just posted, without doing it, with edit comment "done four; section empty". What happened? Place Clichy (talk) 17:42, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

@Place Clichy: apologies, that was an accident. Your entry came in between me deleting the four previous entries and blanking the section, and I didn't notice a fifth had come in. I will be much more careful with this in future. WP:TROUT to self. It looks like your move has been done now, so assuming all is OK now. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 08:38, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

No problem, that's what I had assumed! Nice trout BTW, I hadn't seen these since IRC days. Have some CHIPS with that! Place Clichy (talk) 09:27, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Hey Amakuru. Just a heads up that when you moved True Detective the talk page got left behind. Nohomersryan (talk) 15:48, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Mosman, New South Wales

I think you might have been a bit hasty on this. As can be seen on the talk page, this renaming failed when last discussed because there are other very similar names out there, including Mossman, Queensland. It might be better to propose it again and see if attitudes have changed. Kerry (talk) 09:49, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

@Kerry Raymond: OK then, I've reverted my move. I'll check the talk page archives and maybe file a move request. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 09:59, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Amakuru. You have new messages at Vin09's talk page.
Message added 15:49, 26 May 2016 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

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RevDel on Sunrise Films

Hi Amakuru,

I think I made an edit to Sunrise Films yesterday, removing a BLPPROD that was wrongly placed on the article. Basically, I thought User:reddogsix had probably meant to tag the article for speedy deletion, but had accidentally tagged it for BLPPROD instead (I'm guessing he clicked the wrong thing in Twinkle, or something like that). I see that the page has now been histmerged with Sunrise Films (Australia), and that a couple edits have been revision deleted after the merge. Since I no longer see the BLPPROD tag being added or removed in the edit history, I assume those are the edits that were revision deleted. I don't think that is an appropriate use of revision deletion. Adding the wrong deletion tag by mistake and having someone undo the addition of the tag isn't the sort of thing that should be revision deleted. I see from your edit summaries that you RevDeled these edits as "non-contentious housekeeping", but I don't think that is at all the sort of thing that the revision deletion policy considers non-contentious housekeeping. If I'm correct that those were the edits that were revision deleted, then please restore them. Thanks. Calathan (talk) 19:28, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Hi Calathan, I deleted those edits because they are not really a part of the proper page history. They were part of the original redirect rather than the main article history, but Following the WP:HISTMERGE I carried out, they appear in and amongst other edits that are ideally sequential. I have no idea why you want them to remain, since they're effectively deleted edits, but since you've requested it, and view it as contentious, I've restored them for you. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 20:50, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Page moves

There several page moves happening like this and this. We earlier had discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Indian_roads#Indian_highway_numbers. Could you check them for correctness.--Vin09 (talk) 09:38, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Request.

Hı Amakuru, how are u? I hope everything is okay for u.. I need your help again.. You can install this photo to Oya Aydoğan article? Thank you. --Kingbjelica (talk) 01:03, 12 June 2016

Hi @Kingbjelica: unfortunately I don't think we can use that image in the article, as it is copyrighted and we already have a reasonable alternative (the image that's currently in the article). WP:FAIRUSE normally only applies if the copyrighted image to be used is not replaceable with anything else. Thanks!  — Amakuru (talk) 07:24, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Hodge Lachlan

Thought you might speedy this one too, to match Lachlan Hodge (Athlete). Aboutmovies (talk) 04:30, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Ochamchire/a move

Hi, thank you for working of move requests. You've moved Ochamchira article to Ochamchire, and I believe that more discussion and justifications were needed there. The arguments you've mentioned were 2-to-1 count of support and oppose votes and more google results for Ochamchire. However, the vote count is hardly conclusive (if I weren't too busy at that time it would be 2 vs 2) and the naming conventions say that "raw counts from Google must be considered with extreme caution, if at all." And the google scholar counts are opposite Ochamchire 218 and Ochamchira 341. Finally, the current inhabitants call the town Ochamchira. Could you revert the move for now to discuss it further? Alæxis_¿question? 12:33, 17 June 2016 (UTC) And one of the votes for was from a user that was then [for sockpuppetry], so there's one less reason for this renaming. Alæxis_¿question? 12:46, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Note: There is currently a move discussion at Talk:Ochamchira District that is relevant to this. CMD (talk) 12:43, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Let's be fair you try to put into live name which was adopted by separatist government, that's all. I can show many examples when some individuals put these "new toponyms" as the only correct spelling in English, unfortunately their propaganda was for years that's why many wikipedia mirror web-sites took those names. Common name of that settlement is Ochamchire (which comes from Megrelian language) and some pro-separatist users won't change it for Apsny propaganda of "independence".--g. balaxaZe★ 18:25, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Copying from Wikia

Hi, I'm a bit confused with the whole thing surrounding Template:Wikia content. I want to add a plot section from their to Fallout 4: Far Harbor but I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the guidelines of it all. Here's what it'd generate with the parameters set:
One or more of the preceding sentences incorporates material derived from the "Far Harbor (add-on)" article on the Fallout wiki at Wikia and is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License (18 June 2016).
{{Wikia content
|sitename=Fallout
|articlename=Far Harbor (add-on)
|datecopied=18 June 2016
|date=June 2016
|inline=1
}}

I'll also ping some people from WPVG who might be able to help. @Rhain, Czar, AdrianGamer, and Masem:. Anarchyte (work | talk) 10:57, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

When you are using material under a free use license (Wikia is usually cc-by-sa, I believe), you want to be clear about the source of the text in your edit summary to satisfy the license's attribution clause. There are probably examples somewhere, but for example, "Imported text from current version of wikia.com/example under cc-by-sa license", for others who want to trace the origins of the text. That's the most important part—I've seen templates like the one above used far less. But the way you filled it out looks right—you can place it at the bottom of the References section with your edit. czar 14:41, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

@Anarchyte: yes, I would second that. The most important place to mention the attribution is on the actual edit summary on the edit where you copy in the text, so that it's obvious to someone what it is. I've never actually copied material from Wikia, or indeed any other outside cc-by-sa source, but I do sometimes copy text within Wikipedia, which requires a similar attribution summary as detailed at WP:COPYWITHIN. Here is an example edit: [3] Thanks!  — Amakuru (talk) 20:48, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

okay, I've done it, was it done correctly? Anarchyte (work | talk) 01:24, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Yes, that looks fine to me. I think that should cover the attribution angle so that's great. Of course, you're left with an unreferenced section, as it seems the Wikia article doesn't have any citations, so to satisfy WP:V you'll need to start hunting around for some sources to back up the plot summary. I have no idea if there are sources other than the game itself that describe it in that much detail? Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 09:39, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

I've seen articles without sources for the plot, is it necessary to have refs there? I'll see if I can find some examples. Anarchyte (work | talk) 10:12, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Ah yes, it seems you're right. I've just looked at a few featured movie articles and they don't seem to have sources for the plot, so I guess that must be fine, and could apply the same logic to video games. Maybe it's assumed that the easiest way to verify a plot is to watch the movie or play the game, even if that's a primary source. So don't worry about that, although if you can find a couple of sources to back up the things then it won't do any harm!  — Amakuru (talk) 10:48, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Abkhazia infobox RfC

Due to previous participation in a discussion on the subject, you are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Abkhazia#RfC on Infobox. CMD (talk) 13:01, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

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Move review for Catholic Church in Afghanistan

An editor has asked for a Move review of Catholic Church in Afghanistan. Because you closed the move discussion for this page, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the move review. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zfish118 (talk • contribs) 06:15, 24 June 2016‎ (UTC)

@Zfish118: two things - (1) I was not the closer of the move, I merely participated in it. It was closed by SSTFlyer. And (2) you've put the move review in the wrong place. You need to move it to Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2016 June. I don't see much of a problem with the close myself, but you're entitled to a review if you want one. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 09:41, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for letting me know the proper forum. My notice to you was a formality, because the instructions said that if I informed one participant, I had to inform them all. --Zfish118^⋉talk 19:13, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

RMpmc

I've made a little proposal at Template talk:RMpmc#Appearance, and since all this is still so new, I'd like your input.  What's in your palette? Paine  17:00, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

Comma fix in title

Hi. Could you, as an admin, please return the comma back to the controversial move of the page Martin Luther King Jr. National Historic Site which Dicklyon changed a couple of weeks ago. I've asked him numerous times to change it back, and he finally told me he can't, so it needs an admin. The move is controversial and it should go to an RM, ("Any potentially controversial proposal to change a title should be advertised at Wikipedia:Requested moves, and consensus reached before any change is made") and Dick may have known that when he changed it as I told him in the past that all these MLK comma moves are controversial, although maybe he forgot (I must assume good faith, yes?). He also changed the category "Martin Luther King Jr. National Historic Site and Preservation District" so if you can pop the comma back there as well. Thanks. Randy Kryn 17:55, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

@Randy Kryn: OK I've moved it back to the title Martin Luther King, Jr. National Historic Site, which was the longish term one from 20 May 2015‎ to 13 May 2016‎, when the recent move warring began, and I've move protected it. I'm not endorsing this or any other title though, and I suggest that you or Dicklyon need to resolve this through a full RM. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 19:49, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, it's been one of those back and forth things. I've suggested to Dick that if he really is in a bundle about this he should just try an RM at the main King page, which would then put all of the pages into "play", but he's still nipping around the edges, like this present page discussion. Even a change to 'Martin Luther King' would, in my opinion, be better than removing the comma, which I see as actually changing the name. But, yeah, thanks again for the change back, and we'll see where the journey takes us next. Randy Kryn 20:20, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Before this odd move it was stable for 6 years with two commas, which is not as wrong as either of the one-comma variants, including the one that Randy is fighting for which has no support in our style guidelines. Dicklyon (talk) 01:15, 29 June 2016 (UTC) After several editors fixed it, Randy talked an admin into his version. Dicklyon (talk) 01:18, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Good find, I have no memory of that one. So why not go with the two-comma variant, since it was stable for such a long time? Randy Kryn 1:40, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

@Dicklyon: @Randy Kryn: I'm not mad keen on having two commas in titles myself, I don't think it's correct, even where you would have them in running text. For example although in running text I would say "the Rochester, New York, metropolitan area is a fine example of foo bar" I would prefer to title the article "Rochester, New York metropolitan area" than "Rochester, New York, metropolitan area". I'm not sure if this opinion is grammatically sound, but to me titles are not running text, and having too many commas makes them unwieldy. But anyway that's just me, and I did promise to stay neutral in this debate! I've now restored the article to the six year stable title of Martin Luther King, Jr., National Historic Site as you requested. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 07:01, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

I didn't actually request that, but thanks anyway. Dicklyon (talk) 16:28, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Four years ago ...

Rwanda
... you were recipient no. 168 of Precious, a prize of QAI!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:09, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, Gerda Arendt, this is very much appreciated as usual! I shall very much enjoy my precious anniversary (timed for the independence day of Rwanda, if I recall correctly). All the best to you, and keep up the good work on Wikipedia and with making other people feel awesome.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:50, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, also very much appreciated. I only follow great models, - some of them founded QAI, the "cabal of the outcasts". - Perhaps we have to think about that label, now that a member is not only arbitrator but also Wikipedian of the Year ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:02, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Oh, that's brilliant. Outcasts no longer! I have been busying myself at Furniture recently for the core contest. Didn't get as much done as I'd hoped, but will try not to stop even now the contest is over... Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 12:56, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 1

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Furniture, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Joinery. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Undeletion for File:OldRockinChairTom2.jpg and File:OldRockinChairTom4.jpg

Can you undelete File:OldRockinChairTom2.jpg and File:OldRockinChairTom4.jpg. Marole3 (talk) 03:35, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

@Marole3: it looks like the first one you mention has already been restored. Out of interest, please could you tell me which article you intend to use this image in? Orinarily a fair use image should only be kept if it has clear encyclopedic value in an article somewhere. THanks  — Amakuru (talk) 20:12, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

I have actually uploaded the file but there's no picture. Could you help? Marole3 (talk) 23:34, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

I've just restored it for you. Make sure to fill in the fair use templates and indicate clearly which article its required in for eencyclopedic fair use value. Thanks!  — Amakuru (talk) 00:00, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Unsigned

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:New_York_(state)&diff=next&oldid=728196188 appears to be unsigned... I can flag it but better you sign it. Andrewa (talk) 00:11, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

@Andrewa: oh, thanks for the heads up. Done.  — Amakuru (talk) 00:15, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Would that all life's problems were so easily solved... (;-> Andrewa (talk) 00:17, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Undelete File:Mario64dscourtyardlwm.jpg

I uploaded File:Mario64dscourtyardlwm.jpg but it's empty. YoshiFan155 (talk) 18:26, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

File:Jerrybrassiere.jpg and File:Yankeedoodlemousescreen.jpg

@Amakuru Can you please restore these two images to page Yankee Doodle Mouse They're not CSD F5 or non-free. I uploaded them, but they empty.YoshiFan155 (talk) 16:34, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Core Contest

	Equal Fourth Prize
	To Amakuru, for work on Furniture in the 2016 Core Contest. A voucher will be on its way soon.... Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:41, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

@Casliber: Oh wow, thank you very much! I didn't really expect to be in the running for this, so this is a very pleasant surprise. Now I just need to make sure I get around to finishing the job with the Furniture article at some point.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:53, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Congratulations on your win! Could you contact me at karla.marte@wikimedia.org.uk with the email address you want your voucher to be sent to? Thank you, Karla Marte(WMUK) 14:16, 21 July 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karla Marte(WMUK) (talk • contribs)

Contests

User:Dr. Blofeld has created Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/Contests. The idea is to run a series of contests/editathons focusing on each region of Africa. He has spoken to Wikimedia about it and $1000-1500 is possible for prize money. As someone who has previously expressed interest in African topics, would you be interested in contributing to one or assisting draw up core article/missing article lists? He says he's thinking of North Africa for an inaugural one in October. If interested please sign up in the participants section of the Contest page, thanks.♦ --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 01:11, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Pretty Little Liars (TV series)

Hi, Amakuru! About 12 hours ago you closed Talk:Pretty Little Liars (TV series)#Requested move 7 July 2016 as "move" (both articles), but they haven't been moved yet. Just wanted to check in about that... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 02:01, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

@IJBall: OH yes, apologies. The thing is, there are some incoming links to sort out, I was going to do that first, then I got sidetracked. Will do it today. Thanks!  — Amakuru (talk) 07:07, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

@IJBall: Update: I haven't finished the work yet, but of the ones I looked at, the vast majority were already *wrongly* linked as they intended the TV show. Therefore I've done the move and that has made that situation better. Will finish the rest later.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:13, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks!! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:18, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

The Palace Hotel

Hi - I moved this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refuge_Assurance_Building so that the title would be correct on the 11th but you recently moved it back on the 16th, this change was made to show the correct + current name of the building, could you let me know what the problem with this change was? Thanks :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phecommerce (talk • contribs) 11:14, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

@Phecommerce: there is an outstanding move request open at Talk:Refuge Assurance Building#Requested move 8 July 2016, to move to the name you suggest. I moved it back because usually we wait for a move request to run its course before performing the move action. Since there is no opposition, it seems likely the move will go ahead. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 12:27, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the info Amakuru, do you know how long that normally takes to happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phecommerce (talk • contribs) 12:35, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

@Phecommerce: it's been relisted, so it will normally be seven days after that. Out of interest, are you happy with Palace Hotel, Manchester as the new name? There are quite a few different hotels of the same name (see Palace Hotel), so I don't think The Palace Hotel is unique enough. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 12:47, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Great thanks for the info - 'The Palace Hotel' as the name would be perfect, this is the official name. Is it possible to change it to that rather than 'Palace Hotel, Manchester' ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phecommerce (talk • contribs) 12:53, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

@Phecommerce:You have to ask yourself whether it's the primary topic for "The Palace Hotel" though. Like I say, there are others of that name. http://www.palacetorquay.com/ for example, which also calls itself "The Palace Hotel". Also, if you read WP:THE, you'll see that we don't usually name an article with "The" on the front, unless "The" is always part of the name in running text. The best thing for you if you want to take part in the debate is to go to the discussion at Talk:Refuge Assurance Building#Requested move 8 July 2016 and give your views there. You don't have to support the proposed title, you can suggest an alternative if you want. THanks  — Amakuru (talk) 13:22, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the help — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phecommerce (talk • contribs) 13:30, 21 July 2016 (UTC)