User talk:Deeptrivia/Archive4

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SoLando's RFA

Hi Deeptrivia, thank you for voting in support of my RFA; the result was (28-0-0 ). I hope that I am able to fulfil the expectations that accompany being an admin. If you see me mess up anywhere, have any concernS, please don't hesitate to tell me! Take care. SoLando (Talk) 09:46, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Arabic Numerals, User:Vertaloni, and User:Astriolok

I may be way off base here, but comparing edits, user pages, user talk pages and other things, do you get the impression that User:Vertaloni and User:Astriolok might be the same person? Peyna 14:34, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, deeptrivia for bringing me in.

I believe the article should be named Hindu-Arabic numerals. It was well known that the Arabs learned the numeral system from Hindus. I think Will Durant, an eminient historian with his eight volume book, the Story of Civilization refers to the numerals as such. I don't remember the exact page though. If you have the book, Please look it up. I also posted these comments in the talk section.

Thanks.

Raj2004 00:40, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Great, deeptrivia

Raj2004 11:08, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

also, there is a good web site having numerous citations supporting the importance of Hindu culture and mathematics. Please feel free to take a look: http://www.atributetohinduism.com/Hindu_Culture1.htm#Mathematics

Raj2004 00:49, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I have redirected the article, and suggested an RFC be opened. If he changes it back to an article, please report to WP:AIV with a link to the talk page of the redirect, cheers. NSLE _(T+C+CVU) 05:32, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Indian freedom fighters

Hi Deeptrivia,

I wonder if its a good idea to just re-name Category:Indian freedom fighters as Category:Indian Independence Movement. You see, already there are articles about political parties and the INA docked in the category. It wouldn't be an unnatural change to just make it all about the movement.

Lemme know what you think. In any case, I don't know how to make the change.

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 21:49, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

If one was to create the IMM category, there is already one master Category:British rule in India.

Basically, how shall we attempt to re-organize this?

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 22:00, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Hindus and numerals

Vanakkam. I will add some further comments to the Numerals page, but I can talk to you more freely here. I am cautious on these things. I believe that the value of Hindu People is intrinsic and does not depend on recognition. The algarisms are called Arabic by the majority of English-speaking people, and that may make a difference. The most proper term, true, is Hindu-Arabic, but language evolves and crystallizes many mistakes that are later made, say, correct after a history of usage. I support Hindu-Arabic as the best name, certainly, but it´s not truly a can´t-live-without necessity in my opinion. The important thing is that due credit is given within the article. If the name is made proper - as Britannica has shown us it can be done without creating any confusion - so much the better. Subramanian ^talk 02:15, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind attention, Deeptrivia. You earned my support when you showed me that Hindu-Arabic was not an obscure term, since Britannica uses it. If is recognizable, let´s go for it! (English is not my first language, so I´m not sure what is taught in schools.) Subramanian ^talk 02:56, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I learned them as Hindu-Arabic at primary school, in Brazil. Nice, isn´t it? :) Subramanian ^talk 03:21, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I went to public school in the US and I'm pretty sure we just called them numbers. It's kind of depressing to find out that everyone else learns this important lesson about their origin, but we seem to just ignore it. Peyna 03:43, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Please note the discussion at Talk:Arabic_Numerals and the admin's response. If Vertaloni continues, feel free to report to WP:AIV. Peyna 05:27, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Rain in Spain & much besides

My watchlist in now also my wishlist answered.! :-)

And one only hopes to be able to say something like what Mr. Sid. Basu does on Mastermind India when the timer goes off on the projects begun by me here. VivekM 03:41, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Wifflebat

Hi Deeptrivia,

You deserve this award for more than just the stated reason - I am thankful for your help to me and other young Wikipedians. But since Gurubrahma has already given you a RAOKB, I thought this bat fitting in light of your work on the Hindu-Arabic numerals question.

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 17:00, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean by the first part. I posted the baseball bat on your main page.

The stated reason is your work on the H-A numerals question. The extra reason is your help and kind words to me and other Wikipedians like Raj2004...

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 17:18, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Hehehehe... The tally after adding my contributions to my creations brings it up beyond 170.

I haven't counted my total edits yet - just maintained a record of stuff I've made a significant contribution to.

I hope to rise to your level and that of others like Nichalp, Gurubrahma soon. Thank you for your kind words.

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 17:45, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the Barnstar

I'm not big of awards myself, but thanks anyway. Ciao. Tombseye 18:49, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Oh and by the way, those pictures you gave me a link to on Pakistan related stuff don't have a copyright specification so wouldn't they also end up being deleted at some point? Either way, some of those pictures are very nice. Tombseye 20:49, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

adminship?

Hi,

I was casually wondering whether you have considered becoming an administrator? You'd be a great candidate.

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 22:24, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Tara Singh

Hi Deeptrivia,

I'm glad you looked into the Tara Singh article. I need your help in understanding if the article may need a cleanup, coz a contributor put in a lot of info, a lot of it good, but w/o references and with considerable fancruft. Can you please have a look at the article again and tell me what to do?

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 03:25, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I'm gonna need your help further, holmes, coz I'm a former pot calling this kettle black.

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 03:54, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi again - the main issue as I see it is this - there is fancruft and unverified info. I can clean up the unencylopedic language and format it, but most of it is unverified info, possible even copyvio. How should we address this chief problem?

Rama's Arrow 04:00, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Aite, cool. I'm gonna turn in for now - will begin the clean up by tomorrow.

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 04:29, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I've finished some major cleanup work. I added some links given to me by user:Sukh that help solve a lot of the major issue of unreferenced work, although there remain some major holes. I would like your opinion on what to do next.

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 19:27, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

By what you say, the article is OK, although I may have missed a few POV sentences. There is definitely no malicious material, and all the info that was added was basically good stuff. I will now take down the clean-up notice.

Rama's Arrow 19:37, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your help - helped me resolve this problem properly. Good luck on the Hindu-Arabic numerals debate.

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 19:41, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank You, Deeptivia for kind attention and your help. I'll be happy to receive your help in Wikipedia to participate in this great project with maximum effect. Thanks, again! Atomstalker 07:31, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

hv a look

This is regarding the controversy abt the numerals articles.[1] and [2] Thought I shd keep you informed, --Gurubrahma 14:56, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi, I understand what you've said. I just wanted to inform you as it would be helpful for you to build a case by collecting the several contentious edits through "diffs" in your free time so that you would be prepared if/when an RfC comes. Regards, --Gurubrahma 15:28, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Arabic numerals

Yes, I understand the principle behind the preferred naming, and Wardley's point, effectively "Wha, then, do we call the numerals used in Arabic" is well made. And I appreciate the consensus may have been to move. However, in my view, it has been done the wrong way round, acording to MoS, the "scholarly" nname should be used in the article, the common name for the title. Does that make sense? Rich Farmbrough. 15:58, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi Deeptrivia - I've expressed my views on the talkpage, but I'm concerned about one thing:

Although Farmbrough's views are much appreciated, I find it not good that just after finishing a lengthy and may I say bloody debate, that a consensus decision should be revisited so soon.

I think you should ask an administrator if Wikipedia can somehow protect the decision taken to call it Hindu-Arabic numerals/symbols. So when you, Farmbrough and others settle the discussion, I think others late to the discussion should respect the verdict of a previous process.

I think Farmbrough should respect the decision as of now, but I respect his views. He's a better person to debate with, than ccsssl and other guy.

Ironically if somebody, albeit with valid reasons and good faith, argues to remove the word Hindu, they are inadvertantly discrediting the contribs of an entire culture. I don't think any Wikipedia convention should allow that.

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 17:44, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Can you please ask an administrator to supervise this thing? somebody changed the name while the vote is on-going.

I replied to the comment by Oleg-whatever. For now I'm going offline, but I again recommend that you ask Gurubrahma or somebody to supervise this.

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 20:12, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

hornet's nest

Regarding the move to Arabic numerals. Well, I just happened to see that the last comment wanted it to be moved, and I agree that it should be moved, so I opened a vote. I didn't realize that I had walked right into the hornet's nest. I haven't read that other guideline you linked about specific names, all I knew is that the name I learned in school, and the only name I've ever heard an English speaking person use is "arabic numerals". I see that I'm in over my head, and I'm not going to go to war over it. My bad. -lethe ^talk 20:56, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

3D Monster Maze

Thank you for responding at the FAC. I've expanded the article quite a bit, so it's no longer that short. I'd appreciate your further comments — please have a look again and tell what's still missing in your opinion. BACbKA 23:41, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Even more thanks. I've responded at the article talk page and expanded the article, too. It's the collaboration with the folks like you, who are able to give constructive criticism, that make WP a nice place. Hopefully you try the game and become impressed enough to contribute there as well :-) BACbKA 22:39, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Culture of Morocco

Hi DTrivia! I used to be a crazy triviaholic in MIRC. I am not sure about if you are into that! And, thanks for your support in my Rfa. I appreciate your comments. Anyway, and again another thank you for asking as I've always thought that the Festival International du Film De Marrakech is already mentionned at the list of festivals. As you notice from the title, it's not considered a Mediterranean film festival as the one of Tetouan but rather an international one at its 5th edition (11-19 November 2005). I 'll add that to the article. Good notice from your part. Cheers -- Svest 00:08, 18 December 2005 (UTC)  ^{Wiki me up™}

When I said a couple of days ago about hoping to work together, I was right! Actually List of movies shot in Morocco was created with an idea in mind between editors that it would be an article about foreign movies shot in Morocco. I remember I first created that list inside Culture of Morocco article but after discussing it, another collaborator created that article apart. I have to move that article to List of foreign movies shot in Morocco. After that I am thinking of creating an article called List of Moroccan movies where Ali Zaoua would be listed and do the rest of the dirty job of categorizing and interwiki'ng.

Nabil Ayouch merits his own article. He is one of the best Moroccan film directors and he is shaping a new dimension for Moroccan cinema. I watched the movie Ali Zaoua and it is really a good work. Cheers -- Svest 00:29, 18 December 2005 (UTC)  ^{Wiki me up™}

Excellent list DT! That will be very usefull indeed. I will try my best to find some more information about the stories behind some of those movies.  ^{Wiki me up™}

loool! Nabil Ayouch took you 30 minutes to create from scratch! Unbelievable! Congras DeepWiki! I've started Mahdi ElMandjra decades ago and never moved ahead. Great job! -- Svest 01:17, 18 December 2005 (UTC)  ^{Wiki me up™}

Arabic

If you see at Arabic language#Writing system, 7abibi is considered as being part of Arabic Chat Alphabet. Therefore, it is not an official standard. Regarding wiki policies, I never heard about but there may exist. All I know is that there's a bot fixing unicode caracters but not numbers. Anyway, in Samira Said, 7=ﺡ=H and 3=ﻉ=A'. In other words, Rou7i=Rouhi and 3ach'a=a'achaa. Cheers -- Svest 04:02, 18 December 2005 (UTC)  ^{Wiki me up™}

German-speaking anon

I've blocked him for another 24 hours. Cheers, SlimVirgin ^(talk) 01:28, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi, it is true that anthropocentrism does not exist in Hinduism, but at certain places, it is appropriate to use man/ human instead of a living being. Although Hinduism generalizes Dharma, the eternal law and Atman for all living beings (jiva)—humans (manushya) are the only birth (yoni) where moksha can be attained and all "thinking and knowledge" processes apply only to humans. So at philosophical places, it is appropriate to use Human/man instead of beings—because animals cannot speculate about God.

As for INSA Lyon that you attended, I want to ask if it is good for an IITian to join European institutes like INSA or not. I am thinking of ETHZ. Cygnus_hansa 16:48, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Malwa

I think the article is thorough and reads well. I think it is ready to be nominated again.Tom Radulovich 16:57, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I am in IITB chemical engg. but i want to change my branch to aero- only MS (of course, thats not available in ethz)- available in some canadian univs, an association of 5 european univs and of course the US (mylast choice). I wanted to ask what are the certain job restrictions, etc in European countries, if you know. Because I need to be careful not only of my imeediate future but also far future.Cygnus_hansa 17:21, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Hindu-Arabic vote

Hi Deeptrivia,

Two things:

(1) I hope you have not misconstrued (by your comments at the talkpage) my recent move of the title. I simply reverted what Mikkalai had done, which was seen as incorrect by many others. I didn't have any intention of imposition or arbitrariness.

(2) I hope you will post your vote. This is the final decision point, so I think you should vote.

Thank you,

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 20:53, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I Voted! I am feeling pretty good that someone emailed me to ask for vote, so you have it! Actually I am new to Wiki so I am not sure whats that hullaboo about for such a small thing. My simplest reasoning is to be inclusive instead of being exclusive. But appears that there is more to it than just what my common sense tells me. Ashish G 06:17, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Opening statement of WP:RM @ talk:Hindu-Arabic numerals

As I explained:

• Those opposing the move have the advantage that it won't be moved unless there's a 60% majority
• Those supporting the move have the advantage that the person proposing the move can do the *short* opening statement.

For all the rest of the voting procedure both parties are equal. WP:RM votes can go smooth, they can be a horror. Best to do as explained at WP:RM, and not getting fancy, helps keeping it smooth. I can give you a list of more than 20 things I've seen at WP:RM votes, and which I'd all qualify as getting fancy. Really if you like, I give you that list, and you can try them one by one. Just ask me, and I'll write down. For the time being, however, I go from the assumption you'd like this to be a smooth vote. --Francis Schonken 21:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Engineering project

Hi Deeptrivia, thanks for your support of the GTAW FAC. As for the wikiproject, there's already a Wikipedia:WikiProject Metalworking and a Portal:Engineering, but no Wikipedia:WikiProject Engineering that I'm aware of. Right now my semi-long-term plans include expanding the rest of the welding articles somewhat (maybe make a few more featured articles, and make the rest of them several well-developed sections long). I'm also toying with a few other engineering related projects, like Celsius and Metrology. Not sure yet about those though. I know of a few other engineers on here, so we might be able to get a few people working together on some things, which would be great. --Spangineer^es (háblame) 03:36, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Hiuen Tsang

I never heard of that name before, but I have made Hiuen Tsang a redirect to Xuanzang. Can you add info about the languages in which this name is common to Xuanzang? Thank you, Kusma (討論) 05:27, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome for the redirect (it's not as if it was hard work). Transliteration of Chinese is unfortunately widely differing, especially for people who lived so long ago. Xuanzang and Hsüan-tsang were the only transliterations I knew, but all my sources are strongly Chinese-influenced. The section on transliteration in Xuanzang shows that it is one big mess, and as you just told me, not even lists all common transliterations. I hope there's not too many more. Happy editing, Kusma (討論) 05:54, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Malwa FA

Hi deeptrivia, I have two map images of 1823 featuring Malwa (One in perspective, the other in closeup and more detailed). Haven't uploaded to commons yet (sorting our copyright issues). Thought if you would be interested.. --Regards. Miljoshi | talk 07:49, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Am sorting our the copyright. In the mean time, this image may interest you: Map of the Subcontinent during Mahabharata --Regards. Miljoshi | talk 15:15, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Close-up of Malwa from illustration if India by Lucas Fielding Jr in 1823.

[[:Image:Malwa India 1823.png|right|thumb|200px|India as dipicted by Lucas Fielding Jr in 1823.]]

Well, here you go. These are high resolution images. --Regards. Miljoshi | talk 15:37, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

You may want to thiken the boundries around Malwa region. I was doing that actually... --Regards. Miljoshi | talk 15:50, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Sure, will do that and update the image. --Regards. Miljoshi | talk 16:01, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

where to start debate?

Thanks for pointing me to Arts_and_entertainment_in_India. I was so proccupied with the FAs that i completely missed it. i need your advice. i'd like to make my point (about the need for more sensational FAs for balance) to the wider group of contributors to indian articles. where do you suggest i do this? is there an area of WP:INWNB that is suitable to start this kind of debate? Veej 18:39, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Hello and thanks

Just wanted to say thank you for the welcome note on my talk page. And I learned something new from the talk in the Hindu/Arabic numers talk. Cheers --Sajendra 06:52, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Digvijay

Deeptrivia do not worry I am here and we will not let these guys win the war of words. No matter where I turn on this WP people especially westerners are up in arms against anything that glorifies India. What is up with that? Perhaps insecurity in there minds because India is doing well. Anyway do not let anyone tell you that the western viewpoint is gospel.

--DPSingh 12:46, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Wishes

I wish you and your family a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year. --Bhadani 16:56, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

My RfA

Hi DT! Thank you for your kind support on my RfA. -- Szvest 17:29, 25 December 2005 (UTC)  ^{Wiki me up™}

Edit conflict

Please avoid doing this in the future - I was in the middle of adding 11 featured articles (including Malwa), and you edit conflited me with me. Raul654 23:09, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Malwa featured

Great to see Malwa featured. Good work. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 04:04, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

• Congrats! --rgds. Miljoshi | talk 09:28, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Arabic numerals

Hi Deeptrivia -

I am well aware of the circumstances involving that page. As a mentioned in my rationale, the article was ORIGINALLY at Arabic numerals at the first requested move but was moved without generating a consensus first.

At any rate, please don't move pages back like that once a descision has been made - it just creates more work for everyone :\.

WhiteNight ^{T | @ | C} 06:53, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi DT! Long time! ;). It's just to inform you that the result (veridict if you want) statement stated that Due to the close result, disputes over breaking of naming conventions, and size of the debate, there is more than enough reasons to warrant it staying at the old version., which means Arabic numerals. Cheers -- Szvest 07:04, 28 December 2005 (UTC)  ^{Wiki me up™}

Hi, you may want to have a look at [3]. I will be responding but I am not sure if I understand the issue fully. You may want to respond on his talkpage after I reply. --Gurubrahma 07:23, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi again deeptrivia! I'm sorry you feel wronged by wikipedia :(. Perhaps you can use this as an opprotunity to improve the article, maybe further clarifying why the version you wanted is the "correct" version - perhaps you can use it as an opprotunity to "clear up" confusion about the issue, making sure to work with the other editors and compromise a bit. Don't get stressed out over it though - it's just the name of an article and as such will change over time. If worse comes to worse you can always request another move in a few months, using the extra time to convince the others who participated in the debate. Anyway, just some ideas. Happy holidays! WhiteNight ^{T | @ | C} 05:24, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi deep, I second RN above. Give the issue a rest now. Things will calm down and you will also get some time to improve the article and better your case to rename the article. BTW, congrats on making Malwa a Featured article. Happy holidays and a very happy new year. --Pamri • Talk 06:27, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi Deep, I believe that the current move is improper. However, I also believe that giving some time would do no harm. Your actions in moving the article may also not be viewed in a favorable light. You have been a good contributor and displayed tremendous maturity on many occasions, an asset to Wikipedia - I strongly feel that this issue should not act in deterring you from contributing to Wikipedia. I can understand and appreciate your feelings of hurt. As for the courses of action available, you can request an RfC either on the move of the article or RfC on the admin's actions or an RfAr. However, it may involve lot of time, effort and energy in documenting and framing these. You may also want to have a look at WP:ESP. However, I feel that the best course of action would be to lay down the issue for some time. This is an encyclopaedia and imo, our primary responsibility is towards the readers in providing factual, unbiased info. As long as the reader sees a POV tag, he knows that the article is suspect. I don't think that the POV tag is going to be taken down anytime sooner and so a wrong title of the article should not matter. Congrats on achieving FA status on Malwa. and btw, you may want to rmv that wikibreak notice ;) --Gurubrahma 07:44, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi Deeptrivia, I do see that the move was improper given the voting pattern, but really this issue may not be about majorities; most things academic are not. May I suggest that you propose "Indo-Arabic numerals" as a compromise candidate. It may really help. ImpuMozhi 07:59, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Clarifying

I had clarified all that I had to clarify on the Arabic numerals talk page: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arabic_numerals&diff=prev&oldid=32974730

I have nothing to "add" or to "contest" w.r.t. user:RN's ending of the vote and his analysis report. --Francis Schonken 08:49, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

You really don't get this, do you? The only advise I have to give to you: please stop trying to undermine a sysop's WP:RM vote analysis. Don't contact me any more over the concluded (Hindu-)Arabic numerals WP:RM vote (what is this? are you trying to re-invent wikistalking?) One more mentioning of an "agreement" - which is sheer nonsense - and I take this to RfC. We followed WP:RM. Then, at the end of such procedure a sysop concludes it. B.t.w. he ignored half of my reasonings too. I can live with that. Period.

Please, as suggested by user:RN, try to concentrate on the content of the page: I started a topic on that, Talk:Arabic_numerals#New_intro_and_page_lay-out_proposal, and others are engaged in initiatives too.

But as far as the renaming is concerned, that is concluded, and I tend to keep at user:RN's advise as far as starting a new vote is concerned (i.e.: not again anywhere soon with the present state of affairs).

Really, the best thing for you would be to cut it out now, as far as the page renaming is concerned. I have no intention to go smear it out how many of the pro-Hindu voters have been blocked since the start of the vote, how many techniques were used to try influence the vote etc... I'd consider that loss of time. I'd sooner request you to be blocked along with the others. --Francis Schonken 16:52, 29 December 2005 (UTC)