User talk:Jenhawk777/Archive 9

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Question from DominciDiCelano (07:07, 11 September 2023)

Hello and thank you for helping. I have never edited anything and found zero info regarding a yearbook for a college in Utah and the yearbook is fascinating so I thought I'd add to your article on st Mary of the Wasatch college. But I didn't know about adding a reliable source so it was immediately removed. I spent some time adding the unfo and really don't want to do it again. Also my info came from a copy of the yearbook I wrote about and I cannot confirm the info any other way. Anyone could make this claim so I imagine I can't be considered a in "reliable source". If I was, my info wouldn't have been deleted in the 1st place But I understand completely. The site would be a mess and a joke if you allowed anyone to write anything Anyway, now that I've killed even more time I'll just thank you for the learning experience and won't waste time trying to edit Wikipedia or anything else for that matter. It's a shame because this yearbook is pretty amazing. If I'm wrong and you'd like the info submitted, please tell me how to do so and provide me with what to I wrote so I don't have to do it again. If you need pics of the yearbook showing the info I spoke of I can do that. I think it'd be good to have this documented. --DominciDiCelano (talk) 07:07, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

DominciDiCelano Hello right back at ya'! Welcome to Wikipedia. I hope you will not allow this unfortunate experience to prevent you from coming back. Wikipedia is a great place, but it is important to play by the rules while here! Let me explain.
The yearbook is the thing you want to write about, and that makes the yearbook the primary source on the yearbook, and WP editors do not use primary sources. That is largely because doing so would leave us each interpreting that primary source for ourselves, and that's what's called original work (OR) and that's not allowed on WP either. WP is not the place to vent your personal views or opinions. There are places for that. That place is not WP. I suggest a blog.
WP editors basically write research papers. You would need to find someone who - say, wrote a book on how to put together a quality yearbook - and yours was an example used in that source. That's a published secondary source. You would cite that book and the page numbers where your yearbook was mentioned, and you would summarize what they said about your book. You would need as many of those kinds of references that you could find: a biography of someone who worked on your yearbook, a compilation of yearbook writing stories, a textbook for journalists - anyone who mentions your book in any way. You would go to Google or Google Scholar and try every entry you can think of that might say anything about your yearbook.
If there is a conflicting opinion - someone who wrote that your yearbook is not really a good example because it does such and so - you should also include that dissenting view - and cite it and its page number and a summary of what is said.
Editing on WP is all about the research. We only use secondary sources. All OR will be deleted.
We write as objectively and as neutrally as possible. You have a personal opinion on the quality of this yearbook. In order to write about it on WP, you would have to set that aside and report only what the secondary sources say on it, whether you agreed or not. It isn't always easy to do, but if you don't, someone will call you on it and delete what you wrote as biased and non-neutral.
Those are the rules. There are administrators who deal with these things. Non-compliance can result in being banned from writing on WP at all. They have the ability to block your IP. I do not suggest putting your article back unless you do the research and find quality secondary sources first. But I do hope you will take the time to learn the "how-tos" of WP, will find areas of interest that you can research and learn about, and that you will come back and enjoy being here as much as I do. Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:27, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for your response. I'm confused regarding providing a source but I think what you're saying is that my content needs to have been published somewhere in order to submit. But again, my info came from the fact that I own 2 years of the yearbook and thought your article would be improved if readers knew about the yearbooks existence. But I understand you can't publish something in this case.
Also I gave my opinion on the book which is understandably not allowed but the former reason is paramount and removing this wouldn't matter.
In any case this won't prevent me from coming back but it did prevent me from editing anything which isn't a loss for either wikipedia or myself. I wasted a lot of time trying to help but at least I now know not to do in the future, knowledge not exactly worth the time spent but life doesn't always work that way.
The Berry Basket yearbooks are fascinating and I hope they will be represented on your site someday.
Thanks again,
Dominic Perrotta
P.S. Since I won't be editing or doing anything else here that requires an account or me signing in I decided to delete my account but I spent a lot of time searching for info on this and finally found something that stated that accounts cannot be deleted. Is this really true? It seems absurd to me. While extremely unlikely and/or problem causing somebody could hack into a Wikipedia user account and the user would never know.
And vanishing is for published content I believe and doesn't delete the account. Am in missing something ornis my account truly unable to be deleted? DominciDiCelano (talk) 00:42, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay. I've been out of town and disconnected. If you deleted your account there would be no way to explain this discussion here on my talk-page. If you posted anything anywhere while you had an account, that account must remain for WP to be able to keep track of who wrote what when - a necessity in dealing with an army of volunteers. I suggest posting Retired, contained by two curly brackets {{ on both sides, at the top of your user page and just deleting everything else. No one can steal your page/name as their IP will not match yours.
I'm sorry you've been so disappointed. Yes, everything referenced must be from published material - and not even all of that is usable. Surely you can understand the why's behind that. It is at least partly why WP is still alive and well, when all but one other online encyclopedia started at the same time have died.
I did a search for Berry Basket yearbooks and got a hodgepodge of stuff. I got Berry Alabama and Texas State and more, but it does show there might be some stuff out there. One was just a listing, but it's a published listing! I have no way of knowing if any of it is applicable.
Don't worry about wasting time, it's par for the course here. I often spend hours researching only to decide it's inapplicable. I started to create a page on a living person and got halfway through before realizing there just wasn't enough material to finish. If stuff like that discourages you, this is not the hobby for you. Hope you find something that is. Take care.Jenhawk777 (talk) 17:03, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Question from Harmonicasound (04:34, 15 October 2023)

How can I find articles that need improvement or expansion? --Harmonicasound (talk) 04:34, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

@Harmonicasound, check Wikipedia:Community portal/Open tasks and Wikipedia:Task Center.
Jenhawk, hope all is well with you. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 05:42, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
Hello dearheart, I have been out of town and disconnected. Working hard doing stuff for family for long hours. Thank you for this. Jenhawk777 (talk) 17:05, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Question from D192 (21:40, 14 October 2023)

how to put the main title so poeple can search --D192 (talk) 21:40, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

The main title is automatically attached to an article when it is published. Jenhawk777 (talk) 17:06, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Question from Dre5860 (00:27, 10 October 2023)

Hello , i've added a battle to the "Belgian Revolution" article. However its still in the "draft" phase. is there a way you could review and maybe improve the battle ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Battle_of_Brussels_(1830) --Dre5860 (talk) 00:27, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

If this is intended to be a separate article, then using a draft is appropriate, but if what you want to do is add this to the larger article on the Belgian Revolution then you have gone about it in the wrong way. Go to the original article and click on edit source and make the additions you want to make there, then publish.
But the real problem here is that this has no references. Without proper referencing, someone will eventually come along and delete your additions. It's Wikipedia policy. Don't waste your time trying to publish anything without solid references. Jenhawk777 (talk) 17:14, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Question from Dre5860 (21:40, 19 October 2023)

Hi! so i made a battle about the Belgian Revolution however, it was removed because its still a draft. How do i publish it fully , ive reviewed all the guidelines. --Dre5860 (talk) 21:40, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Dre5860 I believe I already answered this above. Unless you have made some substantive changes, Your edits will not be accepted. It is not referenced properly. Read and follow this: Wikipedia:Citing sources Nothing can be published on WP without quality references, and if it does somehow slip past, someone will come along at some point and delete it. There are people here who do nothing but deletions. Don't waste your time. Either follow WP guidelines or look elsewhere for a hobby. Jenhawk777 (talk) 02:56, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red - November 2023

Women in Red November 2023, Vol 9, Iss 11, Nos 251, 252, 287, 288, 289


Online events:

See also

Tip of the month:

Other ways to participate:

Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Lajmmoore (talk) 08:22, 26 October 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Question from Yougotflame (19:15, 26 October 2023) (2)

Can you help me?I want to open my own page --Yougotflame (talk) 19:15, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

What exactly do you mean by your own page? You have a user page. Publish something on it and it will turn your user name black and that will be your own page. But Wikipedia isn't like Facebook. Everything here belongs to Wikipedia. Jenhawk777 (talk) 02:37, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Question from Danny5784 (21:56, 2 November 2023)

Hey.

I have a question for ya --Danny5784 (talk) 21:56, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Shoot. Jenhawk777 (talk) 06:13, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Question from Yougotflame (19:15, 26 October 2023)

I want to open my own page --Yougotflame (talk) 19:15, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Post something on your user page. Your name will turn black. That is your page. Jenhawk777 (talk) 08:20, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Maybe something you'll find WP-interesting

Antisemitism and the New Testament, there are, for example, a lot of primary sources. In other news, Talk:Mike_Johnson_(Louisiana_politician)#Requested_move_25_October_2023 has a few comments. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:49, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Wow! I don't think I have ever read a more biased one-sided article. If I am ever able to finish History of Christianity it looks like it might make a good next project. Thanx! Jenhawk777 (talk) 06:17, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Interesting article:[1]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 23:28, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

I enjoyed that one! Jenhawk777 (talk) 08:23, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
I did too. And as a counterpoint, here is another:[2] (alt link at [3]). I enjoyed that one less. Its funny, you and I have been in some fairly lengthy religion-related WP-discussions at times, but as I recall, there's not a lot of left-wing/right-wing accusations in those. Harrison (the Slate-guy) has commented more than once that compared to other online forums, WP-discussions are often remarkably civil. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:53, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
I would agree with that. Jenhawk777 (talk) 11:18, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Question from Atukangka (01:14, 4 November 2023)

how to publish my idea in wikipedia this is my idea

Part 2: NUMERIC MIRACLES


The second part of the book explores the concept of numbers and how they relate to the miracles of the universe and religious understanding. It reflects the merging of scientific, beauty, and religious principles in a mathematical context.

Here are some key concepts explained in the second part of the book:

1. The Role of Numbers in the Universe: This section discusses the role of numbers in describing and understanding various aspects of the universe, including physical laws, natural phenomena, and various other phenomena.

2. Number Miracles: This book reviews how certain numbers or sequences of numbers in the universe can be considered miracles that show signs of God's greatness. Examples such as comparisons of proportions in nature, prime numbers, or mathematical relationships in physics are the focus of discussion.

3. Relationship with Religion: This section explains how certain numbers have meaning and significance in a religious context. For example, some numbers in Islam (such as the numbers 7, 19, or 99) have deep symbolic value.

4. Aesthetics of the Universe: This book illustrates how mathematics and numbers contribute to the aesthetics and harmony of the universe. These can include geometric patterns, symmetry, or Fibonacci sequences often seen in nature.

5. Merging Science and Religion: This section highlights how the understanding of numbers and mathematics can be used to combine science and religion, creating a deeper understanding of the universe and religious beliefs.

This book provides a holistic view of how numbers and mathematics can be seen as windows to understanding the relationship between the universe, science, and religion. This is an interesting approach that combines different aspects in a meaningful framework.

Here are some key concepts explained in the second part of the book:

The Role of Numbers in the Universe: This section discusses the role of n --Atukangka (talk) 01:14, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

No, no, no! Wikipedia is not the place for this. Original work is not allowed. Wikipedia:No original research Wikipedia only publishes material referenced in secondary sources. We write research papers. Jenhawk777 (talk) 03:06, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Question from Atukangka (13:29, 3 November 2023)

HELLO --Atukangka (talk) 13:29, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello. Welcome to Wikipedia. Jenhawk777 (talk) 14:59, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
my book [draf]
https://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pengguna:Atukangka Atukangka (talk) 04:40, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
-Atukangka You are new here. I know you don't know all the rules. To publish a first article it must be approved by an established editor. This will never be approved. There is not a single secondary reference anywhere. It is all original work, and no original work is allowed on WP. Do you understand what I am saying? I see that English is a second language, but you must read it well enough to be here. Do not try to publish original work on Wikipedia. It will be deleted. Jenhawk777 (talk) 15:07, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Question from Mcdiggin2102 (20:50, 16 November 2023)

How can I make my own wikopedia page about myself --Mcdiggin2102 (talk) 20:50, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

You can't. Wikipedia editors write research papers based on published material. Unless there have been multiple articles and books written about you, you have nothing you can reference but yourself. That's a primary source and original work and neither are allowed on WP. Try a blog. Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:22, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
New arrival at Teahouse: "Can I have a WP-article about me, please?" Me: "Probably not, but out of curiosity, what do you do?" New arrival: "Oh, I wire mushrooms to synthesizers and make music." Me: "... I can't argue with that logic: Fiat Noa Kalos." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:50, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
LMAO!!! What is it with these editors? Jenhawk777 (talk) 03:51, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

User page

There is an established consensus at WP:CFR that all Wikiproject "members" categories are being moved to "participants" categories across the board. This is not a thing you're free to have variant personal opinions about: the page must be filed in "participants", cannot be left filed in "members", and nobody needs to ask you for your permission to move it. Bearcat (talk) 18:18, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

That may all be true, but all you needed to do to demonstrate some small consideration was tell me that up front. Informing someone is not asking permission. It's just being polite. When someone acts without informing others why, that action seems arbitrary, cavalier and even a bit imperious - as if you have rights other's don't. That would be why editing someone else's page - without telling them why beforehand - is not considerate, not good manners, and not copacetic. Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:43, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
There were several hundred user pages that had to be moved as part of the changeover — I had to clean up over 500 pages just off today's batch of redlinked categories, and there are probably going to be 500 more to clean up the next time the redlinked category report runs on Sunday morning. I'd like for you to look at Special:WantedCategories, and count up just how many "members" and "participants" categories were listed there today — every time you see two numbers with an arrow between them after the category name, the difference between the two numbers represents a userpage I had to move, and you'll notice that there are a couple where I had to move hundreds of pages. So we don't have the time to give hundreds or thousands of editors personalized notices informing them of what's happening before it happens: if it's already a four-hour job as it is, you don't get to demand that I volunteer to turn it into a 12-hour job by tripling the amount of time I have to put into it. Bearcat (talk) 19:16, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
Sure you do. You have whatever time you choose to take. You're a volunteer. You don't "have to" do anything at all. No one but you is your boss here. There is no penalty if you fail to meet some arbitrary time line of your own invention.
By the way, this is most certainly not all on you. I have now had three different editors show up to do this same move, and the last one included an explanation in his edit summary. That worked just fine. I thanked him.
I have made no demands and set no requirements whatsoever concerning your time and how you choose to use it. I explained why your behavior was a negative example and asked for consideration. By WP standards, this qualifies as a mild form of disruption.
You set your own priorities for your own behaviors and how you spend your own time. You are now taking time to argue while claiming you don't have time for good manners. Surely this discussion is now wasting more time than you possibly have. It certainly is wasting mine. Jenhawk777 (talk) 20:48, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
There were no "self-imposed" deadlines here. Cleaning up of redlinked categories is a mandatory job that must get done, and it's a job that has a hard 72-hour deadline on it: every time the redlinked category report runs, all of the redlinked categories have to be resolved by the time the report runs again, because if it isn't done within that time limit then the next run 72 hours will be double the size, and take twice as much time to deal with. Sure, it's not a job I necessarily have a responsibility to take on myself — but it is a job that has to get done by somebody, and it's a job that whoever takes it on, regardless of whether that's me or somebody else, always has to get done within 72 hours.
And it's precisely because we're all volunteers that you don't get to make any demands on other editors' time, such as demanding that they voluntarily triple the amount of time they invest in a necessary maintenance task. It's not just because it was my time — you wouldn't have a right to make special demands on anybody else's time either, because nobody else who took the job on would have sent you a special personal permission slip requesting the right to move the category either.
Sure, if somebody's making disruptive edits to your userpage, such as outright vandalism, then you have a right to rip their head off for it — but a basic maintenance edit, such as a user category being moved to a new name by CFR consensus, is not equivalent to vandalism, and is not a thing that any editor who works on maintenance tasks requires your personal permission to do. Bearcat (talk) 19:32, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
It took you a whole month to come up with a repetition of what you already said, and I already answered? For someone who spends a lot of time complaining about time they don't have, you sure are wasting a lot of it with this nonsense. You have to take the time to write something in the edit summary no matter what you are doing. That would have been entirely sufficient to inform me, which is all I asked, and has also already said, and would have taken no extra time at all. Being considerate of others is never a waste of time under any circumstance. Try it. You might like it. Jenhawk777 (talk) 22:11, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
October songs
my story today

Same topic, different question: for some reason I forgot, I have User:Gerda Arendt/Jen (noticed in this process) which looks like a copy of an older version of your user page (possibly because I feared yours might be deleted), - I don't need it, but you may want to check if there's anything you still want. It could also be moved into your space. - Today, it's a place that inspired me, musings if you have time. My corner for memory and music has today a juxtaposition of what our local church choirs offer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:28, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Ah, two of my many favorite paintings! And quotes! Thank you Gerda, but I guess I have moved on now. Discussing WP policy on neutrality seems more fitting these days. Your musings and memory corners are always interesting even if I don't always comment. Appreciate you! Jenhawk777 (talk) 20:52, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Question from Qweening365 (21:06, 26 November 2023)

Hello I have no idea how to work this --Qweening365 (talk) 21:06, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

== Welcome Qweening365! ==
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:
Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by adding a space and four tildes to the end of the last line of your post, like this:

:This is the last line of the post. ~~~~
:

The tildes will be automatically converted to a signature that contains your linked username and a timestamp to help keep conversations organized. I will sign mine accordingly with hopes you will remember me and will feel free to ask me any questions you have--or just say hi! Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:55, 26 November 2023 (UTC)


Question from Arshad Jkhan on User talk:Arshad Jkhan (07:39, 26 November 2023)


Arshad khan --Arshad Jkhan (talk) 07:39, 26 November 2023 (UTC)



Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:



Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by adding a space and four tildes to the end of the last line of your post, like this: Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:57, 26 November 2023 (UTC)


November thanks


November songs
my story today


Indirectly biblical is my story today, Canticle I: My beloved is mine and I am his, - the composer, born OTD 110 years ago, didn't want it shorter (but the publisher), more here. I'm back to a good tradition: a Britten composition on his birthday. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:49, 22 November 2023 (UTC)



Hello dear one. It was Thanksgiving this week and I have been covered up with company. God bless them every one for coming to visit, and God bless them for going home! Love that canticle! Love you! Merry Christmas! Coming soon! Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:59, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Guest came for our concert today, and loved it, User Talk:Gerda Arendt#Mozart Requiem --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:56, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Of course! Jenhawk777 (talk) 23:02, 26 November 2023 (UTC)


Women in Red December 2023










 Women in Red December 2023, Vol 9, Iss 12, Nos 251, 252, 290, 291, 292



Online events:





Tip of the month:




Other ways to participate:




 Instagram | 
 Pinterest |
 Twitter





--Lajmmoore (talk) 20:23, 27 November 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging



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November 2023


Copyright problem icon Your edit to History of Christianity has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia.  For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously, and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. It looks like you have now received five or six warnings for copyright violations. This is your final warning. Further violation of Wikipedia's copyright policy will result in you being blocked from editing.  — Diannaa (talk) 13:55, 16 November 2023 (UTC)






Diannaa The actual quote is: And, indeed, it is hardly contested that church membership, adherence to traditional Christian doctrines, and participation in church rituals relating to birth,marriage, and death have all declined considerably in those countries (e.g., Norris and Inglehart2004).


The phrase in the middle is common to all studies of decline. These criteria are the criteria that are universally used as a description. This is the list. I have read the same list in many places. You can too. Google the phrase on Google scholar and you will find it in article after article. It is not unique to that text. It was not a full quote. I have been told repeatedly that a quote must be exact in every way even down to the commas, and since my sentence only uses the common phrase in the middle and doesn't quote accurately, I didn't put it in quotes. It was just a nice short summary listing of what can be found everywhere.


This is what I have read here: "Copyright law does not protect names, titles, or short phrases or expressions. Even if a name, title, or short phrase is novel or distinctive or lends itself to a play on words, it cannot be protected by copyright.


— U.S. Copyright Office" 



Since there is no other list, and since it is found in every article on the subject, what would be the correct way to list three things in a manner that would not be a repetition or a close paraphrase of someone somewhere? I clearly need to know a practical re-usable answer. I can attribute and put it in quotes, but must I do so for all common phrases? That would become unwieldy don't you think? I will go reread the guidelines.Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:29, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

The overlapping content is as follows: "Church membership, adherence to traditional Christian doctrines, and participation in church rituals relating to birth, marriage, and death have all declined considerably in western countries". That's definitely not a list; it's definitely a violation of our copyright policy. If you would like to get a second opinion, please consider asking someone on this list.  — Diannaa (talk) 23:03, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

It is a list, of course it's a list, it's just not in WP list form. It's too short for that! It's only 3 things. In the article I used, the author references "Norris and Inglehart" (2004), as representative of studies concluding these three things. There are multiple studies. The decline of church membership is in The Decline of Christendom in Western Europe, 1750–2000 on page 18; decline in "adherence to traditional Christian beliefs" - using that exact phrase - is on page 45; decline in "church rituals relating to birth, marriage, and death" is on page 71. In Demography, Culture, and the Decline of America’s Christian Denominations by Hawley, the decline in membership is on 54 separate pages; "adherence to particular religious doctrines" is the phrase used on page 123, and it is also discussed on 3 more pages; the decline in participation in birth ritual is on page 90. Houtman reuses the phrase in The Spiritual Revolution and the New Age Gender Puzzle The Sacralization of the Self in Late Modernity (1980–2000)  The three are in this book: Sacred and Secular: Religion and Politics Worldwide, and this one Rationalizing Religion: Religious Conversion, Revivalism and Competition in Singapore Society and this one American Catholics Today: New Realities of Their Faith and Their Church. It is a list - the only list - of the causes of decline. I need to be able to say that in this article without it being a problem. How?


Okay. I went and asked Dan Cherek. 00:07, 17 November 2023 (UTC) Jenhawk777 (talk) 00:07, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Since DanCherek has not responded, I will give it a go, using an example. It looks like you are choosing snippets from the sentence I removed and saying that these are common phrases that have been used before, so therefore it's okay to copy. But my point is that when it's all put together, it's a sentence that's identical to content in your source document, and therefore a copyright violation.
Here's my example: common phrases "I lit a fire"; "It's time for bed"; "She told me she worked in the morning"; etc. But no one will claim that therefore it's okay to copy the lyrics of the song Norwegian Wood  — Diannaa (talk) 10:58, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

You were absolutely right, no argument, that I needed to be more careful in being sure my punctuation using quotation marks is complete. I learned from you to be more careful, and I think I have been. I thanked you for that.




You were absolutely right that I needed to be more careful about attribution in the edit summary when copying from other things I had written for other articles on WP. I learned that from you, and I am working hard to remember to do that. I think I have only forgotten once and then went back later and added it. I was grateful for your teaching here as well.


But I am not sure what the take-away should be from this one. It seems to me that someone could claim not to have copied the lyrics to Norwegian wood when using those phrases, even when using them in the same order, because they are common phrases and the author did not originate them and therefore can't claim a copyright of them. Doesn't that go back to the rule of copyright not applying to phrases like that? Are you saying all I needed to do to avoid this was rearrange the same phrases?


Dan has a post on his user page that it might take him awhile to answer, so I am willing to wait. I need to know what to take away from this, so I don't repeat my error - whatever that might or might not be. I don't like being threatened as if I have been belligerent and uncooperative with you. I want that second opinion. Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:00, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

I am saying that when the phrases are put together in order to create a song lyric, the lyrics are copyright. Same with the text I removed: when the phrases are put together in order and are published in a journal article, the resulting sentence is copyright, even though some of the phrases have been used somewhere else before.
Rearranging the phrases is not enough to avoid a copyright problem. Content has to be written in your own words and not include any wording from the source material. Summarize rather than paraphrase, and don't try to include every single detail. This will typically result in your version being much shorter than the source document. It also helps to have more than one source to draw from.  — Diannaa (talk) 22:12, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

I cannot for the life of me think of a way to rephrase church membership that doesn't include church membership. Perhaps the take-away for me on this is, as you suggest, not to include details at all. This goes against the grain for me. I have always believed it's important to know, not only what scholars say, but why. Excluding details will turn the statement of decline into a claim without evidence, ipse dixit, and that goes against everything I have ever been trained to do. That hurts me, I'm telling you!


It will be a hard habit to break. But I am working on being more concise overall. I just didn't see how this could possibly be correct! But I trust your integrity, knowledge and experience, and I will bend the knee, and do my best to cooperate. Jenhawk777 (talk) 22:27, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

I am sorry for the delayed reply; real life has been busy and I haven't gotten a chance to check in on Wikipedia in the past week. I looked at the edit to History of Christianity and the sources you mentioned above, and I agree with Diannaa. I think her last response above is some really helpful advice, and since you also mentioned copyright in lists I'll add that Wikipedia:Copyright in lists is a good essay that has been useful to me in my own editing. DanCherek (talk) 16:18, 28 November 2023 (UTC)


 
DanCherek Thank you so much for getting back to me on this. I sort of expected you to agree with her, especially since I also found her explanation good enough to cooperate with whether I fully understood or even fully agreed. First let me say that I agree with erring on the side of caution and will follow Dianna's definition from now on. I have learned a lot from her and am a better, more careful editor because of her input. I value what she does. What feels like heavy handedness is a bit frustrating sometimes, but she is pretty much never in the wrong. I trust her judgment, so I am trying to understand what my take-away from this should be. I want to not make the same mistakes - they are not intentional or from neglect or unconcern. My edits are good faith edits. I'm just old and forgetful at times - but not this time. 

I read the essay you posted. Then I read it again. Then I studied it a bit. The gist of the essay seems to be that, where public domain lists are the issue, copyright depends upon whether or not creativity went into the arrangement of the list. Dianna's example of a song is heavily loaded with creative arrangement. The question then is whether or not the arrangement of the facts in the article I referenced reflect creativity in its arrangement. 

Dianna says yes, but it did not seem obviously so to me when I included it. That's because there are only three facts, and the separate phrases are used by other authors in other references. I thought that meant the phrases were public domain - and what the essay says is, that may be so, but their arrangement can still have "creative" copyright. Wikimedia concluded "You are really only safe if the list is purely formulaic". But it did seem formulaic to me. I see those same things everywhere the topic of decline is discussed. I accept that you both think I am wrong about that. Okay, I've been wrong before and no doubt will be again, no biggie, but I would like to be able to take away a better understanding from this than I currently seem to have. I would like to see what you see well enough that Dianna never has to come along and threaten me again. Jenhawk777 (talk) 20:29, 29 November 2023 (UTC)



Noticed something


I'm pretty sure you had auto-archiving at some point User talk:Jenhawk777/Archive 6, but this page is getting a bit long. The code seems to have been removed at some point. Reinserting the Help:Archiving (plain and simple) code may work, but I'm no authority on that. It may create 2 "lines" of archives, so to speak.

In other news, Watching the Napoleon Movie? Don’t Forget to Read His Wikipedia Page. It goes beyond Napoleon, God is mentioned. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:19, 28 November 2023 (UTC)



Gråbergs Gråa Sång I went through the whole dang thing - which I have also noticed was too long - and found the entry for archiving right about in the middle, and couldn't tell why it wasn't working. So I went to your talk page, copied yours, and came back here, adjusted it for me, and we will now see what happens. There is stuff here from over a year ago. I have no clue why it stopped working. Thank you for prompting me to do something! Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:14, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Your archive code seems to be hidden in this section User_talk:Jenhawk777#Well_done, you see it if you check the wikitext. I'm fairly sure it's supposed to go "after the talk page headers (all the other stuff with curly brackets at the top of the edit box).", not in a particular thread. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:54, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

So it's still not working? Jenhawk777 (talk) 09:34, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't think so. You may want to ask for assistance at the helpdesk. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:36, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

I moved it to the top. Maybe that will fix it. Jenhawk777 (talk) 09:39, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Give it 24-48 hours and see if anything happens. If not, you can try with the Help:Archiving (plain and simple) code, it's what I used. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:06, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you!  I will. You are so kind and helpful. :-) Jenhawk777 (talk) 20:32, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Victory! Stuff like [4] and [5] will be of immeasurable worth to future WP-archeologists. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:19, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Ha ha!! I can't imagine ever going back for any of it, but as you know well, WP records everything. Jenhawk777 (talk) 14:10, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

This may interest you, if you haven't seen it: Special:Impact/Jenhawk777. It's a new-ish thing. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:22, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Oh wow that's cool. WP keeps track of EVERYTHING!!!  It's a little creepy ... :-) Jenhawk777 (talk) 02:26, 2 December 2023 (UTC)


I love that article!  I am going to use it in a disagreement that is ongoing over the length of History of Christianity. Thank you! Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:18, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

...Napoleon does have a "This article may be too long to read and navigate comfortably." banner, though. WP:OTHERCONTENT arguments aren't the best IMO. But it's not an easy problem, they tried to do something over at Talk:George_Santos#Split_proposal and that one is "only" about 109,585 bytes of prose. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:06, 29 November 2023 (UTC)


Question from Lunger123 (12:00, 4 December 2023)


hi! trying to figure out which sources were good and what parts of the submission needs to be fixed!
thanks --Lunger123 (talk) 12:00, 4 December 2023 (UTC)



For what? Link me and I'll check. Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:00, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Presumably Draft:Benji Levy. @Lunger123, of the sources in the draft, which are the 3-5 best you can think of that are at the same time reliably published (WP:RS), independent of subject and about subject in some detail? This excludes blogs, wikis, subject's websites, online bookstores etc etc etc.


I'm asking because WP:N is your first hurdle. Wikipedia:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing may be worth considering. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:49, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


Question from Godslittlewonders (11:36, 5 December 2023)


What is the best way to edit
On a English writing Essay with only 300 words count on the topic of poetry? --Godslittlewonders (talk) 11:36, 5 December 2023 (UTC)



In the same manner anything is edited on WP. How to edit a page and How to develop articles. Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:20, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

This may be a Wikipedia:Do your own homework question... Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:27, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Most of these are it seems. Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:28, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

...well, you're not wrong. But "Write a 300 word essay about poetry." seemed more homework than most. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:36, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Fair point. Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:36, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


Oh, and I almost forgot, thank you thank you thank you for helping out here. Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:37, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

No problem. I edited the Benji Levy draft a little, it may be possible to make it stick. We'll see if there's any response. My default assumption is "No, we don't want your WP:AUTO and you're doing it wrong anyway.", but I also know that this assumption is only correct about 98% of the time. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:44, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

You rock.   Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:50, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


CS1 error on History of Christianity


 Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page History of Christianity, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows:



  • A "bare URL and missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title.  Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. (Fix | Ask for help)


Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator.
Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 19:56, 6 December 2023 (UTC)



Checked and reported. It is not a bare url. Jenhawk777 (talk) 07:58, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Been told to ignore. [6] Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:05, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


Question from Rabindra KL (16:24, 14 December 2023)


Suggestion for edit --Rabindra KL (talk) 16:24, 14 December 2023 (UTC)



You want a suggestion from me? Have a suggestion for me?  Where?  What is the suggestion? Please clarify. Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:26, 14 December 2023 (UTC)


Disambiguation link notification for December 16


An automated process has detected that when you recently edited History of Christianity, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Tolerance. 

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:03, 16 December 2023 (UTC)



Question from Djthahomie (15:16, 20 December 2023)


U THINK U CAN HELP ME BULID A ARTICLE FOR MUSIC ARTIST THATS ME “DJTHAHOMIE --Djthahomie (talk) 15:16, 20 December 2023 (UTC)



Not unless there are enough other people who have written about you that there is sufficient material to reference. Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:41, 20 December 2023 (UTC)


Question from Djthahomie (16:37, 20 December 2023)


Published my music name DJTHAHOMIE --Djthahomie (talk) 16:37, 20 December 2023 (UTC)



Did you publish that yourself?  Nothing self-published can be used on WP. If someone else published your name and that's all there is, that is insufficient. Jenhawk777 (talk) 03:58, 21 December 2023 (UTC)


December greetings


December: story · music · places


Today, I have a special story to tell, of the works of a musician born 300 years ago. - I wish you a good festive season and a peaceful New Year! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:15, 22 December 2023 (UTC)



Merry Christmas Gerda! Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:05, 22 December 2023 (UTC)


Merry Christmas!



~~~ Merry Christmas! ~~~
Joyeux Noël! ~ Buon Natale! ~ Vrolijk Kerstfeest! ~ Frohe Weihnachten!
¡Feliz Navidad! ~ Feliz Natal! ~ Καλά Χριστούγεννα! ~ Hyvää Joulua!
God Jul! ~ Glædelig Jul! ~ Linksmų Kalėdų! ~ Priecīgus Ziemassvētkus!
Häid Jõule! ~ Wesołych Świąt! ~ Boldog Karácsonyt! ~ Veselé Vánoce!
Veselé Vianoce! ~ Crăciun Fericit! ~ Sretan Božić! ~ С Рождеством!
শুভ বড়দিন! ~ 圣诞节快乐！~ メリークリスマス！~ 메리 크리스마스!
สุขสันต์วันคริสต์มาส! ~ Selamat Hari Natal! ~ Giáng sinh an lành! 
 Весела Коледа! ~ Meri Kirihimete!


Hello, Jenhawk777! Thank you for your work to maintain and improve Wikipedia! Wishing you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:30, 23 December 2023 (UTC)



Thank you dear one!  Merry Christmas to you as well! Jenhawk777 (talk) 15:36, 23 December 2023 (UTC)


Spread the WikiLove and leave other users this message by adding {{subst:Multi-language Season's Greetings}}


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Happy New Year, Jenhawk777!








Happy New Year!


Jenhawk777,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

Abishe (talk) 14:04, 1 January 2024 (UTC)







Thank you so much!  Happy new year to you as well. Jenhawk777 (talk) 14:54, 1 January 2024 (UTC)


   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.



 
Abishe (talk) 14:04, 1 January 2024 (UTC)



Question from DaShayban (17:55, 4 January 2024)


Hi, I just joined Wikipedia because I was bored, I guess. Maybe I could edit or make some articles in the future. But I'm quite new to editing and making wikipedia articles. --DaShayban (talk) 17:55, 4 January 2024 (UTC)



== Welcome! == Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:26, 4 January 2024 (UTC)


Your GA nomination of History of Christianity


Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article History of Christianity you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria.  This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period.   Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Generalissima -- Generalissima (talk) 19:23, 2 January 2024 (UTC)



Generalissima Wow! That's amazing! I only nominated it a few hours ago. Thank you so very much! I've been working on this for months, trying to summarize sufficiently to get the length down - at one time it was over 20,000 words - while still being careful to cover all the important topics. I so hope you like it, and I look forward to any and all helpful criticisms. (I really mean that too, since I am hoping to eventually take this FA.) Thank you again. Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:38, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Good luck! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:42, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Say an agnostic Swedish prayer for me...  Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:43, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

[7] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:27, 2 January 2024 (UTC)


I hope you had a nice Trettondedag jul. Me and my family ate and drank. As a Wikipedian, I told them this holiday was in the memory of the three Magi and and Jesus' baptism. They may have been somewhat skeptical, but what can you do. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:42, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

I wish that was a holiday we celebrated - it looks like so much fun!  But I suppose it's just as well we don't have another eating holiday.  We start in October and don't quit till January. Any more and I'd weigh 400 lbs!  Jenhawk777 (talk) 22:48, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Somewhere in the history of this talkpage, I mentioned the Swedish novel The Longships. In it, there is a (shrewd) christian priest who get the chance to preach to Swedish pagans. He tells them of Jesus that "When he walked on this earth, he turned water into good feast-drink for the joy of his friends." He knew his audience. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 23:08, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Ha ha! I love it! The Danish are not far removed...  Jenhawk777 (talk) 03:15, 7 January 2024 (UTC)


Your GA nomination of History of Christianity


The article History of Christianity you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:History of Christianity for comments about the article, and Talk:History of Christianity/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article has never appeared on the Main Page as a "Did you know" item, and has not appeared within the last year either as "Today's featured article", or as a bold link under "In the news" or in the "On this day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear at DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On this day" column do not affect DYK eligibility.  Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Generalissima -- Generalissima (talk) 23:03, 9 January 2024 (UTC)



Bless you!  Thank you.  You have been wonderful. Jenhawk777 (talk) 23:29, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Congratulations! I saw on Gerda's talk page (I don't think I'm welcome there right now, so I come here) that you intend to take it to FAC, which it definitely has the legs for, but I would echo her advice not to go through an A-class process, and instead try to drum up advice at a peer review. I can tell you the names of editors who'll give good advice. As for DYK, try to find unusual facts that you wouldn't expect from an article titled "History of Christianity", or facts that are simply so fantastic/amazing they just stand out in any context. Let me know if you want any advice on either FA or DYK. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 02:16, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much! I haven't been to Gerda's page yet, but on the A-class page they say it is prep for FAC. I wonder why she would be against it - but I trust Gerda absolutely. If she says no, I won't do it. I have already had three separate "informal" but extremely helpful peer reviews, but I am always in need of more victims - I mean candidates. I will look through the article and see if something jumps out, but 'unusual' and 'amazing' are rarely aspects of histories like this one. Besides, in this area that probably equates to controversial...  Jenhawk777 (talk) 04:53, 11 January 2024 (UTC)


I just saw the GA mark and headed here to say congratulations. Well done for all your hard work. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 16:53, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

 ActivelyDisinterested   Bless you!  Thank you so much!  Did you happen to see my message on your page about not finding the common.css page? Any advice on getting it to FA? Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:53, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

I replied on my talk page, sorry I should have added a ping. Asking about FA status is well over my head, I would take AirshipJungleman29 up on their offer on that one. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 19:00, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Going there. Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:01, 11 January 2024 (UTC)


How do I collapse the GA review now that it's done? Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:30, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Do you mean the review details on the talk page? -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 20:24, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes. Jenhawk777 (talk) 20:27, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

I've add {{cot}} and {{cob}} to the GA Review part. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 20:37, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

You are so cool. Thank you. What do those stand for exactly? I will write that down somewhere! Jenhawk777 (talk) 20:39, 11 January 2024 (UTC)


Ummmm... it's all still there. Jenhawk777 (talk) 20:40, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Collaspe top and collaspe bottom. |title= is used in cot to add text.
Its collasped but remains in the table of contents, if you go to a section of it it will auto uncollaspe. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 20:43, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Okay, I see that now. Thank you again. Jenhawk777 (talk) 20:55, 11 January 2024 (UTC)


~~ AirshipJungleman29 I was thinking on your advice to look for the "unusual" for a DYK, and I may have found one. "Sex was central to one of the greatest ideological shifts in history". I can't think of how to include empire, individual freedom vs. fate, and social status. This is a direct quote: "The legacy of Christianity lies in the dissolution of an ancient system where social and political status, power, and social reproduction scripted the terms of sexual morality." It might fill the bill. WDYT? Jenhawk777 (talk) 20:56, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

There's also this: " From the 600s to the 700s, Roman Popes had to be approved by the Eastern emperor before they could be installed,"  and this one "Between 1000 and 1300, the Church became the leading institution of this world that was becoming increasingly refined, educated and secular. After 1300, the Church was riddled with corruption and entered into a decline that ended in the division of the Church."  Does any of this seem viable to you? Jenhawk777 (talk) 20:53, 11 January 2024 (UTC)


And this: "the Church of the 1300s, which had in its origins decried the power of law, developed "the most complex religious law the world has ever seen... in which equity and universality were largely overlooked". Do you like any of these?  Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:04, 11 January 2024 (UTC)


I actually love this one: "Popes began losing prestige and power in the 1300s. Pope Boniface VII (1294-1303) wrote a papal bull in 1302 claiming papal superiority over all secular rulers. Philip IV, king of France, answered by sending an army to arrest him. Boniface fled for his life." Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:06, 11 January 2024 (UTC)


Question from Derrick Calligan on Harry Reid International Airport (02:13, 12 January 2024)


I can see the destination airline on there can you fix it --Derrick Calligan (talk) 02:13, 12 January 2024 (UTC)



Fix what? Jenhawk777 (talk) 04:14, 12 January 2024 (UTC)


Question from NewGenofblack (02:30, 18 January 2024)


Who keeps archives of all history in a book like how the Bible is? The history of everything in the world that happened up until now? And who keeps archives of people who were born and enslave? --NewGenofblack (talk) 02:30, 18 January 2024 (UTC)



No one. Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:59, 18 January 2024 (UTC)


Question from Lo1vesedi2ting (18:16, 15 January 2024)


Hello, I was editing my sandbox, but something isn't letting me publish that edit. It keeps showing me a "Something went wrong" message when the only thing I tried to do is to cite a website. --Lo1vesedi2ting (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2024 (UTC)



Give me a link. Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:23, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

I can't give you a link because it keeps saying something went wrong, even on your talk page. The link is from New World Encyclopedia about Harold Harefoot. I reported the error & another user posted a message in my talk page that says that New World Encyclopedia isn't a reliable source. Lo1vesedi2ting (talk) 21:57, 18 January 2024 (UTC)


I found it. It looks as if that is copied from that website. That would be the problem. You can't copy anything to anywhere on WP, not even your own sandbox, w/o putting a banner saying it is copied. That would be two curly brackets, the word copied, then a straight-up stovepipe  |, then from= the web address or title, stovepipe, to=your sandbox, then two closing curly brackets. Try that and see if it works. Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:30, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Your edits are being rejected because you keep trying to post links to New World Encyclopedia, which is a fork of Wikipedia controlled and moderated by the Unification Church. Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks makes it very clear that forks are not reliable sources, and have no use here.  That particular one triggers the edit filter because there's a history of it being used disruptively by an WP:LTA.  The article you were trying to link is simply a fork of Harold_Harefoot; why not just link to the Wikipedia version? OhNoitsJamie Talk 22:16, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you!  I had no idea. Jenhawk777 (talk) 04:03, 19 January 2024 (UTC)


You may or may not be interested


Talk:The_Bible_and_violence#May_someone_explain_why_is_the_"Hamsa"_(Yiddish!)_word_in_the_article_in_the_first_place?. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:24, 14 January 2024 (UTC)



Gråbergs Gråa Sång Thank you for alerting me. I was interested and did go make a comment. Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:05, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

They didn't like it much.  Jenhawk777 (talk) 23:35, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

One can speculate on if this is a reaction to the word Hamas, which has been seen in the news (and on WP) a bit since last year. But, quite unrelated to the article in question. I couldn't stop myself [8] but I may get around to digging up the whos? at some point. You also inspired me to do this edit [9], we'll see if it sticks. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:07, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes, he did call it political, but it isn 't current and has nothing to do with current issues really. I may edit some too. It has needed it for a long time now. Including some of the stories themselves - context - would be an improvement. Except the Bible generally makes no comment on them. Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:32, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

So I was in a discussion that was getting a bit annoying (Talk:Jai_Shri_Ram#WP:LEAD_disagreement), thought to myself "What can I do that's more sane and calming? Ah! I'll go over to The Bible and violence and talk to Jenhawk." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:50, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

 But of course! Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:59, 21 January 2024 (UTC)


Women in Red February 2024










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Question from Thirteentreefrogs (02:53, 19 January 2024)


Hello! I am working on an article about someone who died but I have somewhat incomplete information about them. They are a theatre  set designer and have produced over 150 plays (verbally confirmed by her coworkers) but I only have information about less than 20, and incomplete info about some of them; I'm missing the years some of them were produced, and since some of them are form the 70s and 80s, it's hard to find information about them online. Do you have advice about how to present this information, like is there a way to make a note somewhere that this is an incomplete list? Thank you. --Thirteentreefrogs (talk) 02:53, 19 January 2024 (UTC)



You can't include information that you only have personally confirmed verbal information about. Read and follow this:Wikipedia:Reliable sources Jenhawk777 (talk) 04:06, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, I am following the format on that page. Do you have any advice on how to note that information is incomplete in an article? Thirteentreefrogs (talk) 20:59, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

You can just say so, but it's kind of a given that things are missing in every Wikipedia article. We have limits on length and space. Be as thorough as you can. You can note information that is lacking. But above all else, be sure you have those sources! Jenhawk777 (talk) 05:09, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! Thirteentreefrogs (talk) 02:44, 30 January 2024 (UTC)


2024










Die Zeit, die Tag und Jahre macht

Happy New Year

2024








Like 2019, remember? -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:44, 1 January 2024 (UTC)



What a wonderful article. Hope you have a happy new year for real. Jenhawk777 (talk) 06:27, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! - On the Main page: the person who made the pictured festival possible. - About that A class, I think we have some misunderstanding, - I simply believe that GA tops A, but don't have the slightest experience with A B C. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:26, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt  "A" supposedly tops "GA" and is an interim step to FA, so I first thought that was the way to go. I would like to see History of Christianity reach FA, and I learned from my first experience at FA that it requires a great deal more prep than I knew back then, so I was thinking of how best to prep it - and me. In keeping with getting all my ducks in a row, I thought 'A' might be the way to go, but others seem to think another peer review specifically aimed at FA is the best idea. I have therefore nominated it for peer review - which you recommended - but my hopes are not high that it will get a response anytime soon. FA reviewers are all busy with actual reviews. All I can do is wait. Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:52, 16 January 2024 (UTC)


story · music · places


Yesterday was a friend's birthday, with related music. - I'm on vacation - see places. - I like that you don't give up the PR, - repeating: take the advice you can live with, and ignore other. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:32, 31 January 2024 (UTC)



History of Christianity


Thank you so much again for your work on this article! I noticed with the peer review that a lot of people were discussing pairing down the article; this is something that I have found myself relatively adept at, and I was wondering if I could offer my skills in trying to defluff it a little so that space opens up for details that ought to be added; I've spent enough time with it at this point I think I have an idea of how this would be done (and if it ends up being not as high quality, it can always just get reverted to the previous state) Generalissima (talk) 18:36, 24 January 2024 (UTC).



 Generalissima What a wonderful offer!  Yes of course!  You know you don't have to ask, but it is so like the you I have come to know here to do so. I am deeply touched. Thank you, yes, yes, that would be wonderful. If it is also okay with you, we can kind of work as a team, so that if I see any critical content being removed, we can discuss how to keep it while still taking advantage of your skill at being concise. I do not have that skill!  I want all the juicy details! Thank you dear one. Thank you. Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:49, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

I am feeling so much more hopeful now that I am already doing more research on making the additions to Antiquity and the high Middle Ages that others requested. I can come up with the content, and if you can edit it down, then perhaps then we can reassess the whole FA thing. I would be thrilled to be able to co-nominate with you. I didn't know such a thing was possible. Your comment on the review page was spot on. I know there are things I can no longer see, just because that's the way it works with humans! But together perhaps we can actually get this done. Thank you. You are amazing!!!!   Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:30, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Of course! I am busy with classwork at the moment, but I'll try to take a look at it once I'm done. My first big change will be trying to transfer as many scholarly quotes as possible to simple cited statements; that I think will clear up the prose. I also might take the axe to some of the notes, since sadly I feel that reviewers were correct in stating that many are unnecessary with the density of links and hatnotes we have. I am not a scholar of religion by any means, so I think you will have to take up the content additions that were suggested. Luckily, I think we have a broad and relatively consistent set of things the reviewers thought were missing. Generalissima (talk) 20:17, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Well I have totally screwed this up. I have to redo the center section from scratch with better sources. I am preoccupied with RL right now, but will be back and do that! Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:35, 6 February 2024 (UTC)


Question from Digital Market Tags (21:54, 6 February 2024)


Greetings. I want to add an article on digital marketing, could you please guide me how i do so --Digital Market Tags (talk) 21:54, 6 February 2024 (UTC)



follow these instructions exactly: Help:Your first article Jenhawk777 (talk) 22:01, 6 February 2024 (UTC)


New article (hopefully)


Draft:Nicôle Lecky, what do you think? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:02, 8 February 2024 (UTC)



It looks good to me, but I know diddley-squat about writing biographies. Gerda does it all the time. Her opinion is of more value about that. Jenhawk777 (talk) 17:36, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

My method, which seems to work fairly well, is to be a WP:BLP-fanatic. I came across a mention of her in a book, and the name of her play had been spell-checked to Superhero. Human or computer spell-checker, I can imagine both. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:44, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm that way about my favorite topics as well. Spring is beginning here and I am busy in the garden doing stuff I will regret not doing later if I don't get to it. At some point, I have to come back here and redo the Middle Ages section on HofC. I asked and everyone else agreed it was biased. It seemed like they thought it was an anti-Christian bias - which is kind of funny when you think about it - but I am not an authority on the Middle Ages, so I accept and will redo. I thought I was just going by what the sources said. One editor said it looked like I picked the sources based on what they said. I didn't of course, but now I have to start all over again using "better" sources. To them that seems to mean more general types of sources - though they did not like the History of the Western Humanities that I used. One guy kept calling it an "art history" book - which it contains, but it also has history of religion that was convenient and easy to use. It's a good reference. I don't know why they disliked it so much, but it's pretty easy to find good sources, so I will, and I've already made a start in my sandbox. Just going to be awhile. If I don't answer right away, it's because I'm outside. I'll be back. Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:01, 9 February 2024 (UTC)


Question from Benjiverse (15:19, 10 February 2024)


do you eat hamburger? soeray for bead englash --Benjiverse (talk) 15:19, 10 February 2024 (UTC)



Question from NollanKingsley (17:46, 10 February 2024)


Is it necessary that whenever I edit, I should add a reference? --NollanKingsley (talk) 17:46, 10 February 2024 (UTC)



Yes. You should only edit in those things you have found in the majority of sources. Research first. then edit.  Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:50, 12 February 2024 (UTC)


New religion article


Hi Jenhawk! The new page Split of Christianity and Judaism could use help from a good religion editor like yourself! Thanks :) Zanahary (talk) 07:25, 12 February 2024 (UTC)



Thank you for the suggestion.  I will add it to my list! :-)  I am preoccupied in RL right now and still have work to do on one I've been working on for quite awhile, but I will certainly look into it. Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)


Question from Dr.ibrahimk (10:26, 13 February 2024)


Thanks , I tend to this topics that you count



as well --Dr.ibrahimk (talk) 10:26, 13 February 2024 (UTC)



Welcome. Jenhawk777 (talk) 15:41, 14 February 2024 (UTC)


A note of appreciation


Dear @Jenhawk777,

I recently came across History of Christianity. Well done. Please accept my appreciation. I imagine that church history is like a tree: there are people like you who does massive work at the trunk, whereas I focus more on one single branch and the twigs and leaves along. 

I also wish you a good Ash Wednesday. Cheers, --The Lonely Pather (talk) 22:32, 14 February 2024 (UTC)



Bless you!  Thank you so very much. Jenhawk777 (talk) 08:09, 15 February 2024 (UTC)


Question from Shizzi01 (21:03, 17 February 2024)


How can I edit on Wikipedia --Shizzi01 (talk) 21:03, 17 February 2024 (UTC)



Welcome to Wikipedia!  It's a great place, but there is a lot to learn. First, do some reading. how to edit a page is a great place to start. Once you have good sources and some idea what the majority view of what you have researched is, click on the edit source at the top, type in what you want to add - with citations to good sources - explain what you did and why in the edit summary, then press publish.  Voila!


getting started and Simplified Manual of Style are things you must know and do or you will end up with your edits being removed. If I can help further, let me know. Jenhawk777 (talk) 22:19, 17 February 2024 (UTC)



Quote of the day


"I’m not sure there is an answer to life, the universe and everything. But when someone figures it out, I’ll know where to find it — and you can bet there’ll be footnotes." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:22, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Btw, take a look at User talk:Womeninbible. If they are who they say they are [10], I think we want them to stick around. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:26, 15 February 2024 (UTC)



Gråbergs Gråa Sång I forgot to say, I like the quote. And I have a question. I have tried twice to remove the peer review request on HofC and each time I've been told I can't. But I need to, since I am - once again - redoing it. Do you know the magic steps? Turn counter-clockwise 4 times in a darkened room on a rainy Tuesday and then remove it?? I can't seem to get it right. Jenhawk777 (talk) 17:24, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

I have no idea. I SUMMON THE @Platinum Goddess of Wikipedia, maybe she knows. HofC = History of Christianity. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:35, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

I asked. She didn't. I should just go ask the guy who keeps putting it back I guess. Grumble grumble gripe groan... Jenhawk777 (talk) 22:21, 17 February 2024 (UTC)


Feedback request: Religion and philosophy request for comment


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DYK for History of Christianity








On 22 February 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article History of Christianity, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the growth of Christianity in 20th-century Africa has been termed the "fourth great age of Christian expansion"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/History of Christianity. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, History of Christianity), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.





  
Z1720 (talk) 00:02, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Nice! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:27, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! Jenhawk777 (talk) 17:10, 22 February 2024 (UTC)


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Tachoni


Tachoni tribe stands as an independent tribe in Kenya. Mostly people mistaken it to a luhyia group since most of its occupants live in areas around Webuye in Bungoma county thus sharing a land with the luhyia groups especially the Bukusu and Kabras. Tachonis' are believed to have originated from El-Matru a region in Misri Egypt and migrated downwards following the Nile river due to a deadly attack that happened by their neighbors which lead to a great bloodshed.

On their way they met the kalenjin subtribes which they interacted and moved together via Ethiopia into Kenya. Upon reaching Kenya, they divided into groups which lead them to occupy lower western region as the Sabaots, Teuregs and some groups went at the slopes of mount Elgon while the other kalenjin subtribes went further to the regions of Uasin gishu which was by thenn occupied by the Maasai people.

Later on, other tribes begun occupying the unoccupied regions in western region e.g the Tesos.
During the onset of colonialism, they had gathered and multiplied further. So when the whites begun their rules, the Tachonis' resisted together with the Nandi tribe and some other tribes which lead to an intense fight. The fight lead to capture of some leaders e.g Koitalel arap Samoei of the Nandi, while the Tachonis' were subjected to a total brutal workforce. Their greeneries were burnt down, while some were killed. Leaders we're drawn as far as kisumu and other tribes like Kabras and wanga to rule over them. That was not enough. Their lands were taken by force and we're forced to flee and find refuge from other tribes. This means of divide and rule lead to the lose of their dialect and their lands to date.
Most of the settlement schemes and forest reserves in the wide western region of Kenya were once the Tachoni lands. After independence, the government took all those white settlements and made them government properties thus leading to a total disettlment of the Tachoni people. That's why they lack their official lands as many other tribes in Kenya. Bilmiah khaweri bii (talk) 17:36, 24 February 2024 (UTC)



This is a sad story. Colonialism did a lot of harm. Is there some reason you are telling me this? Jenhawk777 (talk) 17:38, 24 February 2024 (UTC)


Editor experience invitation


Hi Jenhawk777 :) I'm looking for people to interview here. Feel free to pass if you're not interested. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 09:12, 25 February 2024 (UTC)



Women in Red March 2024










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Question from Kmt4536 (12:30, 4 February 2024)


Hi. I often look at films and TV shows on here and occasionally see the names of actors in the Cast section credited by their current stage name with a footnote or parentheses to state what they were credited as at release. For example, Miley Cyrus was credited as Destiny Hope Cyrus in Big Fish, but she is listed in the Cast section as Miley Cyrus, with a footnote stating the name she was credited as. I have seen nothing but this style of listing cast names until I was on the page for The Little Mermaid II, where Tara Strong is consistently referred to as Tara Charendoff, which she was credited as at the time of release. I can't find anything in the Wikipedia manual for style of writing where it is explained which is the correct way to refer to an actor, other than a section about avoiding deadnaming transgender people. Would you be able to explain to me which is correct? --Kmt4536 (talk) 12:30, 4 February 2024 (UTC)



I cannot. I'm sorry. It's possible Gerda might know. She is super knowledgable and experienced, writes in the area of music consistently and there is no kinder more helpful person on Wikipedia. If she can't help you, she might know who can. Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:33, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

We should ping her, then! @Gerda Arendt ;-) Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:55, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Ooops! My bad! Thank you! Jenhawk777 (talk) 22:01, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for (too) high praise, and yes, I try to be kind and I know some things but not about film crediting. How about Dr. Blofeld. - Generally, sometimes people get married, take stage names or change their names in other ways. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:20, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Gerda. Jenhawk777 (talk) 23:40, 6 February 2024 (UTC)


Thank you Gerda. @Dr. Blofeld would you be able to answer this question for me? Kmt4536 (talk) 15:30, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Go ask.Most editors here are happy to help others. Jenhawk777 (talk) 17:35, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

thank you :) Kmt4536 (talk) 18:18, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome. If you come up with a question I can actually answer, I am always available. Good luck! Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:20, 9 February 2024 (UTC)


story · music · places


You are welcome! - Today I am happy about a singer on the Main page (at least for the first hours), after TFA the same day last year. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:33, 7 February 2024 (UTC)


It's sure a good thing for me - having you as a friend. I need a keeper most days. Instead I have the very best of friends.  Thank you. :-) Jenhawk777 (talk) 23:43, 6 February 2024 (UTC)


Thanks to Seiji Ozawa. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:56, 12 February 2024 (UTC)


more music and flowers on Rossini's rare birthday --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:51, 29 February 2024 (UTC)


sfn error in History of Christianity


Hello, I am Gilbert and I am contacting you about the broken sfn/harv citation number 336. Since you split the sources into chapters, you need to update the shortened footnote to reflect it. You can add onto the date and put A or B right next to it. Thank you! Thecowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 02:03, 1 March 2024 (UTC)



Thank you so much for the heads up! I truly genuinely appreciate it. Jenhawk777 (talk) 06:52, 1 March 2024 (UTC)


Disambiguation link notification for March 1


An automated process has detected that when you recently edited History of Christianity, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Gregory VII. 

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Question from Crazyblock2023 (21:43, 13 March 2024)


Hi! how to I message on wikis? --Crazyblock2023 (talk) 21:43, 13 March 2024 (UTC)



Can't I-message on wikipedia. Can email and leave messages on Talk pages. Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:52, 15 March 2024 (UTC)


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Question from Kabiblehopper (14:45, 2 March 2024)


Fellow editor Viewmount Viking keeps deleting my edits, one of which on the JD Irving Ltd has him asking me to prove a negative. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=J._D._Irving&action=history

"Irving group of companies" isnt a registered organization, and therefore cannot be the "parent company" it is a colloquial term used to describe the Irving conglomerate, how can I cite something that doesnt exist? 

How do I negate this. --Kabiblehopper (talk) 14:45, 2 March 2024 (UTC)



Kabiblehopper I went and had a look.  Viewmont Viking has reverted you twice for the same error - your material is unsourced - and he is in the right.[11]


It also does look promotional. Do you have any connection to the company? It is against wiki policy to use WP for promotional purposes. Please take a look at this; [12].  Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:58, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

How does one prove a negative as is required in this scenario? The irving group of companies is not a physical group, its a colloquial name associated with a group of companies owned by one family. Ive established several times that Im not associated with irving, why is it that everyone is accusing me of self promotion when the articles written about irving & its subsidiaries are just incredibly bad. Kabiblehopper (talk) 13:00, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Because what you write about them doesn't sound neutral. But set that aside. It's the sources that really matter. We have had people that articles are about come and complain something is inaccurate, and they know because it's about themselves, but without a secondary source we can't publish it. Crazy I know, but if you stay long enough you will figure out why that's actually an important policy. People can impersonate anyone and say anything. We reference sources that can be checked. Always. Fix that issue and you'll be fine. Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:57, 19 March 2024 (UTC)


Question from Muqing112233 (02:43, 22 March 2024)


Hello? Sorry to ask: Why can't I publish the translated article even after checking it? --Muqing112233 (talk) 02:43, 22 March 2024 (UTC)



 Gråbergs Gråa Sång  do you know the answer to this question? I don't. Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:26, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Muqing112233, is this about User:Muqing112233/Handan Junior High School Student Kills a Student? If so, you can add {{subst:submit}} at the top of it. Otherwise, Wikipedia:Translation may have something helpful. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:35, 23 March 2024 (UTC)


Btw Jenhawk, trying to "fix" a ping like this [13] doesn't work (yes of course there's a page, WP:PINGFIX. And I might occasionally look at your talkpage anyway). Simplest is just making a new signed reply, "Failed to ping @Jenhawk777" or whatever. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:40, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for you answer Muqing112233 (talk) 12:25, 23 March 2024 (UTC)


Yes thank you for your answer and the new info for me as well. Thank you thank you!! Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:08, 23 March 2024 (UTC)


I think I remember you said you liked this guy too


IAN McSHANE TALKS ABOUT LOVEJOY. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:36, 21 March 2024 (UTC)



I deeply admire Ian McShane's talent. I thought he was under appreciated in America. He makes it look so natural that it's hard to tell he's acting - he just seems to be being himself - but that's really the epitome of good acting isn't it?  He's brilliant. Thank you for this! Jenhawk777 (talk) 20:38, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Eric: Here, you forgot your meat yesterday.


Lovejoy: Ah! Now the winter of our discontent is made glorious summer by that loin of pork! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:24, 22 March 2024 (UTC)


Since you involve yourself in the GA-process now and then, you might find this bit of WP-drama interesting: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#TonyTheTiger_is_gaming_the_WikiCup_through_GAN_spam. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:26, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

And this was also an impressive piece of WP-drama: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Follow_up_from_VPM. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:09, 24 March 2024 (UTC)



Women in Red April 2024










Women in Red  |  April 2024, Volume 10, Issue 4, Numbers 293, 294, 302, 303, 304



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March music


story · music · places


I uploaded vacation pics (from back home), and I listen to Bach's St John Passion today, - 300 years after it was first performed. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:54, 29 March 2024 (UTC)



My church did an Easter cantata that included Bach's "Oh Sacred Head now Wounded" this year. It always makes me cry. I love Bach. Happy Easter! Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:46, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Understand. I always cry when the orchestra begins the opening of the St Matthew Passion. - Two days later in time, Bach music for Easter! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:44, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

And that includes all the reasons why I love you.   Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:16, 31 March 2024 (UTC)


Question from Avantabo (05:11, 1 April 2024)


Greetings am requesting for your assistance in creating a company page --Avantabo (talk) 05:11, 1 April 2024 (UTC)



Don't. Read this instead: [14] Jenhawk777 (talk) 06:34, 1 April 2024 (UTC)


Question from PDJ81 (18:27, 1 April 2024)


Hello

I want to add https://tolpuddletothecotswolds.co.uk/ where?!!

Thank you --PDJ81 (talk) 18:27, 1 April 2024 (UTC)









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