Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Real Madrid C.F./archive8

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 23:06, 13 December 2008 [1].

Real Madrid C.F.[edit]

Nominator(s): Hadrianos1990
previous FAC (15:57, 12 October 2008)

I think this is a very good article and should be a featured one. Hadrianos1990 08:44, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Oppose - Hate to do this again, but the prose still doesn't meet FA standards. I advise that you obtain the services of a good copy-editor to help polish the text. Here are a few examples of problems.

  • "It holds the record as the most successful club in Spanish football and was voted by FIFA as the most successful club of the 20th century...". Two "most successful clubs" in this sentence makes for repetitive text. I'd suggest changing one of them.
Done--Hadrianos1990 10:47, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Define FIFA on its first use, not second. Then remove the second link as unneeded.
Done--Hadrianos1990 10:47, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
  • "Unlike most European football clubs, the club members (socios) have owned and operated Real Madrid since its foundation." Try this: "Unlike most European football clubs, Real Madrid's members (socios) have owned and operated the club since its inception." That moves the two "club"s in the sentence further away from each other.
Done--Hadrianos1990 10:47, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
  • "The club's traditional kit colours are all white." I think this should specifically state, here and in the Colours section, that this is their home colour. The article says later that their away colours are black or purple.
Done--Hadrianos1990 10:47, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
  • "the most notable with FC Barcelona with whom they semiannually contest the El Clasico." Sentence needs improving; two withs in three words doesn't read well.
Done--Hadrianos1990 10:47, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
  • "It semiannually contest the El Clasico with FC Barcelona which is the most notable rivalry of The Whites." Contest should be plural, and since when do readers know that they are called The Whites? Giants2008 (17-14) 15:51, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done --Hadrianos1990 16:29, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
  • History: "Football was introduced to Madrid by the professors and students of the Institucion Libre de Ensenanza, who included several Oxbridge graduates." Since who is not referring to a person, change it to which.
Done--Hadrianos1990 10:47, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
  • "They founded the club Football Club Sky in 1897..." Remove "the club" and just leave it as "They founded Football Club Sky in 1897".
Done--Hadrianos1990 10:47, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

All of these are in the lead and first paragraph of History. Sorry, but I shouldn't be finding this many problems this early in the article. Giants2008 (17-14) 16:38, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My oppose still stands, unfortunately. In addition to the over-reliance on primary sources mentioned below, the prose is still lacking in some areas. Here are more examples.
  • Budget: "It was with the advent of Florentino Perez in 2000 that Real Madrid really started harbouring its present-day ambition of becoming the world's topmost money-spinning professional football club." In addition to needing a rewrite, this needs a citation.
Done --Hadrianos1990 17:19, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
  • "After the 2004–05 season, Real Madrid have ended Manchester United's eight-year reign as the biggest earners in world football." Remove have because this is three years old, and no longer present tense.
Done --Hadrianos1990 16:45, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
  • "However, they reached the top again in March by getting massive image rights of 762 million." Massive is POV; try "However, they reached the top again two months later after completing an image rights deal with (insert rights holder here) worth 762 million."
Done --Hadrianos1990 16:45, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
  • "currently ranked" and "still the richest club" need "as of" or similar terms; otherwise, they risk becoming outdated.
Done --Hadrianos1990 16:45, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
  • "In September 2007, Real Madrid was considered the most valuable Football brand in Europe by BBDO". Why is Football capitalized?
Done --Hadrianos1990 16:45, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
  • History: "His death put an end to the one to whom credit can be given for transforming Real Madrid from the second most successful club in Madrid into the most successful in Spain, andone of the most successful in Europe." Another overlong, winding sentence. "put an end to the one to whom credit can be given" needs chopping, and a source. Who gives him this credit?
Done --I deleted this because I found it unenciclopedic. Hadrianos1990 16:56, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
  • "By the early 1980s, Real Madrid had lost its grasp on the La Liga title until a new batch of home-grown stars started to back winning domestic titles." "started to back winning domestic titles"?? Giants2008 (17-14) 15:51, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done --Hadrianos1990 16:56, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


Image review

Done--Hadrianos1990 11:00, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Please link to the specific page from which you downloaded the image. Awadewit (talk) 16:12, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done--Hadrianos1990 16:32, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Image:MadridFC1902.jpg - We need at least the death date of Anton Casilldes to establish "life of the author + 70 years".
Done--Hadrianos1990 11:00, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Big problem here. On the top right of the picture, it says the photo is copyrighted to Getty Images. It smells, and should be deleted ASAP, unless Getty has approved its use under a free license. Knowing how these photo companies are, I doubt it. Giants2008 (17-14) 22:12, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I had doubts about this image, but I was going to check the site first to see if it really was released under a GFDL license. I still can't get to the site, however. Awadewit (talk) 23:57, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The link works.Hadrianos1990 11:00, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
No assertion of a free license is given at [2], there is just the image as uploaded. Given the Getty watermark, it needs deleting. Oldelpaso (talk) 12:54, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. There is nothing on the site that indicates this image was published under the GFDL license, as claimed on the image description page. I have put this image up for deletion. Awadewit (talk) 16:12, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Image:Real crestds.png - We need a link to the source website. Also, the "purpose of use" needs to be altered, as this logo is not the current logo and therefore the logo does not confirm that readers have reached the right article or illustrate the team's branding message.
Done--Hadrianos1990 11:28, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Please add a link to the specific page where you found this image. Awadewit (talk) 16:12, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done--Hadrianos1990 16:32, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I've fix it.--Andrea 93 (msg) 19:26, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've fix it.--Andrea 93 (msg) 19:18, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

These should be relatively easy issues to resolve. Awadewit (talk) 17:50, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose I'm concerned about the proportion of references which use Real Madrid's own website as the source. For something like a club record, it is fine as a source, but for anything contentious, a third party source should be used. I'm also think there are elements of what Dweller would call hagiography - for instance, no mention is made of Real Madrid's reputation for gaining favour as a result of Franco's patronage (see for e.g. Time magazine). Phil Ball's Morbo is arguably the best English language book on Spanish football, and covers this well; it seems the relevant part of the book is searchable on Google Books. Oldelpaso (talk) 13:20, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I added some information about Franco and Real Madrid. The problem with the references will be solved soon.--Hadrianos1990 12:02, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Closing note: Hadrianos, I still see many problems with the prose and sourcing. Rather than trying to get through FAC again, since I speak Spanish, if you will contact me on my talk page after the holidays, I will try to help you sort things out, and put you in contact with other editors, including those who speak Spanish, who may be able to help. It is best to undertake this work before re-nomming at FAC. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:09, 13 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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