Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2007 February 24

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February 24

Blanking your own talk pages

The user DX DX DX DX DX recently blanked his own talk page that contained numerous warnings for vandalism. Is this allowed? If not, what is the course of action to take against this user? --Eastlygod 00:39, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

It's allowed. WP:VANDAL used to have a note about it not being so, but that was removed a good while ago. Warnings are supposed to warn the user; removing them is just an acknowledgment that they're seen them. And it stops the trolls who place warnings on innocent user's talk pages and demand that they not remove them. If giving the user a new warning, just go up to the next level as usual. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 00:42, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, and the warnings can be discovered in the page history. You can always report vandals to WP:AIV if they break the rule after the final warning. Xiner (talk, email) 00:45, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I fondly remember WP:Vandal mentioning that it's "frowned upon". See the heading Talk page vandalism. —Xhantar^Talk 01:33, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I really think that, unless the warning is a mistake, it should be kept. Otherwise, how will we know when to warn them. This rule needs to be changed. Maybe I should try to change it. Though should I just put it as a comment in a talk page or create a new "Proposed policy" page? Mr.Z-mantalk¢ 02:22, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

It can be frustrating, but vandalism is one of the easier situations because there's WP:AIV. If you step back and think about it, it really doesn't matter what they do to their talk pages unless they're using it as a soapbox or personal attack page, in which case there's a lot of grey areas and you could easily start sinking to their levels. It is indeed "frowned upon" to blank one's talk page, but discourtesy is not a crime, just like in the real world. Xiner (talk, email) 02:33, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your replies. I'll keep an eye on it, if he continues to vandalise, I will watch the warning given --Eastlygod 03:09, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

using someone else's images

I just spent a couple hours wading thru all the stuff about images & licensing but havent' found an answer.

I found some images that would be good illustrations for my article and I feel there's a good chance the artist/copyright owner would allow them to be licensed. But how do I go about asking him to do so?

All kinds of references to GDFL but how is it applied to an image? "Included in the text..." doesn't seem to apply.

KenGr8white 01:06, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Show him the license and ask him if he'd agree to, basically, release the images for use by anyone, including profit-seekers, so long as they attribute it to him, or if included in an article, to Wikipedia. Xiner (talk, email) 01:05, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Right yes. Wikipedia:Requesting_copyright_permission basically says what Xiner said, in a copy-and-paste-link kind of way. —Xhantar^Talk 01:24, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

CSS hover

I want to use CSS hover effects in a navigation template I'm working on. Is there any way to define a CSS class on a wikipedia page? Is there a template or something that would directly let me do hover effects (I'm specifically looking for a change of background color on hover) --froth^T 01:34, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

You might want to ask at the Technical Village Pump - the people there are a lot more code-savvy and probably would be able to help you more than most of us here. Off-hand, though, I think there might be a way to do it. Hersfold ^(talk/work) 01:54, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Confused by hierarchy of authority of policy

What is the hierarchy of rules and regulations that govern procedure on Wikipedia? For example, Wikipedia:Vandalism; who backs that policy exactly? Just the users? The Foundation? Jimbo? Does the Foundation, the body that owns Wikipedia, explicitly forbid vandalism anywhere?

I'm trying to understand the rules in the same way that: a) British Law is really important b) The school's rules as determined by the head master and school board and whoever else is involved is somewhat important (e.g. no mobile phones allowed - is that legally enforceable?) c) The teachers preference that we don't smile during class is less important --Seans Potato Business 01:36, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia policy and guidelines exists by virtue of summarizing the current practices (with a few exceptions) and common sense. If all else fails, ignore all rules.Circeus 01:45, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Jimmy Wales, through the Wikimedia Foundation, owns the Wikipedia servers. His word is law and he has the ability to do whatever he wants on Wikipedia. He does exercise this power- see Brian Peppers. For the most part he lets the Foundation and WP:ARBCOM do a lot of his dirty work. --froth^T 01:59, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Policies on Wikipedia are generally determined by the consensus of the community. For the most part, Jimbo Wales (and the Foundation), whilst he has the final say on all issues, usually does not determine or formulate specific policies. -- Chairman S. Talk ^Contribs 02:29, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

MediaWiki failing to subst a sig?

I made a post signing it as normally: [1] but for some reason it looks like MediaWiki failed to expand out my signature and in stead placed four tildes in the wiki markup. Then on the next edit to the page, it picks out the tildes and signs someone else's name to my comment. What gives? —Dgies^t c 01:56, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

The only thing I found was an HTML <pre> beginning with no end, this causes the text to be displayed as it is laid out in the file.

like this ~~~~

The next editor must have removed it.Mr.Z-mantalk¢ 02:17, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah yes, that would do it. I actually noticed the pre after saving my edit but someone beat me to fixing it and I failed to notice it had caught my signature. —Dgies^t c 03:12, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Categories

How can I force Category:Multiracial Wikipedians to be listed on the first page of its parent category? Thanks. Xiner (talk, email) 03:54, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Nvm, I figured out a hack; just give a sortkey of a space character. Xiner (talk, email) 04:04, 24 February 2007 (UTC))

How do I get a Copyright?

I am getting very frustrated that I can't add pictures that I think are good to anime and manga articles.

Please be more specific in your question. All original works are automatically under copyright, held by the author. —Centrx→talk • 04:06, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

If you're saying what I think you're saying, plesae read Wikipedia:Image_use_policy, Wikipedia:Fair use, Wikipedia:Fair use criteria and Wikipedia:Image copyright tags. Yeah, that's quite a bit. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 04:12, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

You should also be aware that the rules are likely to be enforced much more strictly in future: this probably means no copyright pictures for things like cartoon characters, celebrities, book or album covers at all. The rules haven't changed, but the enforcement has been rather relaxed. Wikipedia's aim is to produce an encyclopedia of free content, and using copyright pictures doesn't match that aim. 08:50, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Detail box at bottom

How do you edit the info boxes at the bottom of an article. I am talking about the ones at the bottm of a page for a musical artist that details band members and official album releases etc... i hope this makes sence. thanks.

Some of them have an edit button in the corner. If it doesn't, then try editing the page and look for a template name in double curly brackets (e.g. {{The Bluetones}}), and type template:templatename (e.g. template:The Bluetones) in the search box to get to the template page (e.g. template:The Bluetones). PrimeHunter 12:54, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

There's a quicker way -- if you edit a page that contains templates, you can scroll all the way down to the bottom (below the "save page" button and the character box), and you'll see a clickable list of all templates in the article. — Catherine\^talk 06:18, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

A question for the reference desk

can i get some details about customer relationship management intiatives of creditcard agency

Possibly, if you ask at the reference desk. --Teratornis 23:15, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Reference to Forums

I would like to use the wording (or something similar): This phenomenon is reported by thousands worldwide in discussion forums that can be found by anyone using the normal search engines like Google or Yahoo. Would this be proper, or is there better wording that I could use that doesn't indicate that I am using "forums" as a type of reference. The idea behind this wording is for those that have FURTHER interest, that they can then go to other places for information. My intent is that I am NOT using it as reference material. Could I then use a "link" in the statemnent like: There are discussion forums on paranormal here. --Doug ^talk 13:16, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

You might bring this up at Wikipedia talk:Attribution. I'd say avoid this, and instead look for a source that says something similar. -- Rick Block (talk) 17:51, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Forums are not an acceptable source for Wikipedia NOR an acceptable external link. Your form of words could be seen as a way to try to get around that by inviting people to look in forums themselves. You really need to find what is considered a reliable source or acceptable link; for example a newspaper writing about forums could be quoted. Notinasnaid 19:04, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

If you participate much in forums, you've probably grown tired of those lame student survey questions that roll through unceasingly like the seasons. Instead of merely flaming the lame surveys, enjoyable as that may be, consider trying to enlist one of those students to conduct and publish a study about whatever sort of online phenomenon you wish to mention. With luck you might end up with a peer-reviewed study you can cite. For best results, you might need to get in touch with the professor who sent out the sacrificial survey lambs, and see about getting him/her to perform an actually useful investigation for a change. See WP:ACST for some links to studies about Wikipedia; from there you might find your way to some studies about discussion forums (should we say "fora"?). --Teratornis 23:13, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

You can't use a discussion forum as a source to prove or disprove a fact in an article, but you may be able to use it to prove the discussion itself existed, or as an example of such discussion. I wouldn't send the reader to search engines though ( links to seach engine result pages are frowned on ) but might say something like "This is a perennial topic of discussion on ABC-site and XYZ-site, as well as USENET's rec.m.n.o.p", with links to examples of these discussions in the footnotes section. Squidfryerchef 18:12, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Video "Ogg" files

Presently there are approximately 400 "ogg" video files. Approximately how many of these are actually used in articles and can I get a list of these articles? The others (20% +/-, I'm guessing) that are NOT used on articles then are for what purpose? --Doug ^talk 14:22, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

If you go to the video file's page, there should be a section titled "What links here" or something along those lines that lists where the video is being used. There probably is a way to write a script to figure out which ones are "orphan" files, but I'm not sure how to do it myself - maybe someone else will figure it out.

As for what purpose they serve, none really. If there are any videos uploaded under a fair use rationale that aren't being used, they should be speedy deleted. Hersfold ^(talk/work) 15:15, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

How do I request for an Article to be made?

How or where do I request for an article to be made? I don't have that much skills in writing a full article yet, so I am wondering about asking people if I ever need to. Thank You

Sincerly

Kenny Sullivan 16:55, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requested articles. PeaceNT 17:06, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, please remember to find the sub-topic in which your request best fits. Hope this helps. PeaceNT 17:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Be sure there is not already an article covering the topic you are interested in, perhaps under some other name. See Help:Searching. Wikipedia has many articles, so a topic has to be fairly obscure or specialized not to have an article yet. Ask at the reference desk for article(s) on any topic; if they cannot find an article, then you could request it. --Teratornis 23:05, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Search for a Wikipedia policy

Is there a way I can quickly search for a Wikipedia policy? Right now, I enter the Community Portal and manually search/browse to find any info I need. --Madhu 17:14, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I find most wikipedia space pages by guessing shortcuts. Most wikipedia namespace shortcuts go along the lines of "WP:<acronym or abbreviation>". Examples: WP:SHORT > Wikipedia:Shortcut, WP:NOT > Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, WP:HD > Wikipedia:Help desk. If that doesn't turn up what you're looking for try the search box (or posting the question here). —Mitaphane _?|! 17:29, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I suppose you're looking for Wikipedia:List of shortcuts, there you can find the full list of Wikipedia policies and guidelines, the redirects are also useful. Hope this helps. PeaceNT 17:29, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

You may find what you are looking for by browsing the Category:Wikipedia policies and guidelines -- zzuuzz^(talk) 17:32, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

There are lists as well, see Wikipedia:List of policies and Wikipedia:List of guidelines. -- Rick Block (talk) 17:36, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, everyone. Mitaphane, yes, searching 'WP:xxx' in the search box works - this is what I really wanted to know - if there was a 'tag' I could use to search within the Wikipedia policy/help page instead of the encylopedia! Thanks again. ---Madhu 17:50, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Lately I'm liking: User:John Broughton/Editor's Index to Wikipedia. Open the page, browse to a specific letter entry, or type search words in your Web browser's page search box. --Teratornis 21:50, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Can I use a picture that was already use on Wikipedia?

If I wanted to use a picture that is already on Wikipedia do I still need a premission from the site or person that Wikipedia got it from? Kenny Sullivan 17:15, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

That depends on the license on image. What do you want to use it for? Do want to use it for another wikipedia page? That would be ok (assuming the image is already under Fair Use or some other license granting it use on the wikipedia). Do you want to use the image for your own, copyright protected project? That could violate wikipedia's license. Post the image in question so that one of the editors here could interpret what the license on the image means. —Mitaphane _?|! 17:39, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

• Mostly true, but not entirely. If it's fair use on one page, that doesn't automatically mean it can be used on another. Fair use has strict rules and requires a rationale for that particular page. Please read the page Mitaphane linked for more detail on fair use. - Mgm|^(talk) 22:27, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

wikipeadia for mobiles?

Thx for a great web page. Is there a wikipedia home page that can be used from mobiles?

Regards, P.

See WP:WAP. —Mitaphane _?|! 17:41, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

wikitables

Hello, I have a question, how do you create wikitables? Do you type them directly or use a program? Do you create them easily or not? I visited a page in Internet which converted HTML tables to Wikitables. But I don't know how to make HTML tables. I make tables with MS Word, but they aren't HTML, and in Frontpage codes have many surpluses and they'll corrupt Wikipedia. So what do you suggest? Thanks a lot --♥MehranVB♥ ^{☻talk | ☺mail} 17:36, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't bother with HTML since you're going to be converting to wiki markup anyway. Check out Help:Table. It covers all you need to know on making tables with wiki markup. —Mitaphane _?|! 17:45, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Name change

Hi, I'm an experienced editor and the creator of WikiProject Tyne and Wear and it is currently being proposed that its name be chanegd to Wikiproject North East England. I'd be happy to edit the project logo and help with the change over its just that I'd like to know if there is a way all of the categories and subcategories for the proect easily because they are automatically update by the wikipedia editorial team bot (or something like that) on a daily basis and I was thinking if I change the categories will that stop the bot from working properly or will it jsut adjust, do you have any suggestions please? Thanks!Tellyaddict 17:56, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, I know considerably less about your WikiProject than you do, but I do know how to click on links and look at things, so maybe I can find some clues. Wikipedia:WikiProject Tyne and Wear#Categories has a list; the first one is Category:Tyne and Wear. Click the history tab to see what's been editing it. A bot edit points to: User:Escarbot, and its page says: This robot is only used to make interwiki links. You could ask on the owner's talk page if what you want to do will cause a problem for that bot. Then look at the histories of other pages you want to move, and ask the owners of bots that have edited those pages if what you want to do will cause a problem for them. For more information on bots, see: User:John Broughton/Editor's Index to Wikipedia#Bot. --Teratornis 21:45, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

John Quincy

Who was John Quincy's first wife?

Please see John Quincy Adams. If that article doesn't have the information or if you meant a different John Quincy, then please ask over at the Reference desk which handles factual questions like this. Dismas|^(talk) 18:48, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Template

Hi, can someone please remind me where I put new templates, in case anyone wants to use them... I've put it on the Death Grunt talk page, and wikiproject metal talk page, but I am sure there was somewhere else I could put it... Any ideas? The template is

This user growls in a heavy metal band.

({{User Metal Singer}}) Thanks, Asics talk ^{Editor review!} 18:54, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

You may want to add it to Wikipedia talk:Userboxes/New Userboxes, or were you looking for something else? Dar-Ape 20:35, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

That's what I was looking for, thanks! Asics talk ^{Editor review!} 21:13, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Reporting content

I was wondering (as I can't find anything searching the FAQ) if there was a way to report or highlight content that needs changing because it is wrong, but that you don't know the right answer to.

For example, I just found the following on the "Chicken" page:

"Going broody

A moody hen guarding her legs

Sometimes ben will stop laying and instead will focus on the masterbation of eggs, a state that is commonly known as going moody. A moody pie will shit fast on the nest, and protest or peck in defense if disturbed or removed, and will rarely leave the nest to eat, drink, or dust bathe. While brooding, the hen maintains constant temperature and humidity, as well as turning the legs regularly."

This is obviously wrong, but I don't know enough about chickens to do anything else other than remove the wrong words.

If you look at the history of edits (top of the page) you can see when the edits were made and using the undo button (you'll see when you click on it) you can revert the edits. Also it is an idea to leave comments on the vandal's talk page, information on what to leave can be found here. Asics talk ^{Editor review!} 19:18, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, a list of talk page warnings can be found here. Mr.Z-mantalk¢ 21:16, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Scroll boxes

How do you create scroll boxes? By this I mean small boxes with the scroll bar (similar to what is normally far left of the screen on IE) down the side of it. I have seen it on wikipedia before, but I am unsure where I saw it! Thanks, Asics talk ^{Editor review!} 19:23, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

There's one on my user page actually. I can't remember where I copied it from, but the code is:

<div style="height:20em; overflow:auto; border: 2px solid #088">

Page contents here

</div>

You'll have to find someone more knowledgeable than myself if you want to know what all the code actually means. Raven4x4x 02:44, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Sending something

i would like to send something to my friend on cleopatra how would i be able to send him something

You'll have to be more specific. However if your friend is a user, you can leave messages on the user's talk page, type in Talk:username into the search box. If you are trying to send him information about the article from here, you can send him the link... Other than that I am unsure, but if you could be a bit more specific, I would be delighted to help Asics talk ^{Editor review!} 20:22, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

You mean User talk:username --WikiSlasher 02:29, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Thats what I mean! doh! Asics talk ^{Editor review!} 13:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

signpost

where can i read the wikipedia signpost newspaper?qrc2006/email 20:01, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

See WP:POST. Cheers, Dar-Ape 20:16, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

how do I add an article to wickepedia?

above, I cannot find a link to add an article. There is not even a button to send this message. I take it you do not want people to easily add articlews or contact you —Preceding unsigned comment added by Itrsteve (talk • contribs) 07:19, 25 February 2007

See Help:Starting a new page for information on adding a new article. -- Chairman S. Talk ^Contribs 20:25, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

A page listing all red image links?

Is there a page on Wikipedia that lists all pages containing links to non-existent images (ie, red image links)? This would be very useful, for example, in finding chemical compounds who need pictures of their structures.shoy 17:42, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I was going to suggest Special:Wantedpages, but it has been turned off. You might find WP:WANTED or Wikipedia:WikiProject Red Link Recovery useful for what you're searching for. I think there's a problem with search though; people usually don't create image tags for non existent images. The only time I've seen red links for images were for deleted or renamed images, not for images that someone thought would be created at a later time. For that you might want to see Category:Wikipedia requested photographs by subject—Mitaphane _?|! 18:03, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

The reason I ask is that adding the template {{chembox}} to a page will automatically add a link to the image [Page Title].png. This would be an easy way of seeing which chemical pages needed structural formulas.shoy 22:31, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I see. Perhaps this is a job for the AutoWikiBrowser? You could tell it to go through the pages Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Chembox and have it report which pages have broken image links. I've never created a AWB plugin so I don't know how difficult/time consuming that could be.

I'm looking at the list of what links to chembox, it looks like it would be quicker to do it manually by checking each page. It doesn't look like there's that many pages that uses chembox (maybe around 350?). If it takes around 10 seconds to load up a page (an a fraction of a second to check to see if there's a red image link) that's 3500 seconds, roughly an hour, to check them all.—Mitaphane _?|! 16:39, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Forgeting the edit summary

I reverted some vandalism and forgot to say so in the edit summary. It wont let me change it either. What should I do SlakaJ 22:37, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

It shouldn't be too much of a problem unless you do it repeatedly. You can go to the page, make an unnoticable edit, and refer to your previous edit in the summary for your new one. Mr.Z-mantalk¢ 22:49, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

If you'd like to avoid accidentally leaving an edit summary blank, you might want to go to "my preferences" at the top of the page, click "Editing," and then select the checkbox next to "Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary." Also, your signature does not contain a link to your userpage or talk page-- I think you may have accidentally checked the "Raw signature" box under "User profile" in preferences. If you could uncheck this, that would be great. Thanks, Dar-Ape 23:19, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

ThanksSlakaJ 10:12, 25 February 2007 (UTC)