Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2020 May 1

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May 1

Contacting author(s)

I have a specific question regarding a lesser known American figurehead, Frank Hatton. My question for the help desk is; I'm assuming whom ever helped write the page on Frank Hatton may know more about the gentleman. Is there any way of contacting the author(s) of this page? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.133.240.239 (talk) 00:44, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

For every article on Wikipedia, such as Frank Hatton (American politician), there is a corresponding talk page, such as Talk:Frank Hatton (American politician), where you can post questions related to improving the article. You can also click "View history" to see each of the editors that helped write the article, and contact them on their User talk page. You could also try posting your question on Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities. Good luck! GoingBatty (talk) 01:00, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Of course, you can also investigate the references at the bottom of an article, as they may lead you to the information you're looking for. GoingBatty (talk) 01:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Please review an article I created

Hello, I created an article for Regulation H. It was present in the requested article list and I happen to know about it. I have put it for review. Can anyone help me? Here is the link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Regulation_H Thanking in anticipation.FZR2020 (talk) 01:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Just be patient. However, in the meantime, you might point out in the article that it is (I think) about the US. -- Hoary (talk) 01:55, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

informations

when you are finding out information of people where is it that you get the information from? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:121A:5181:9026:A79C:1497:F787 (talk) 05:52, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

This is a good question, and the answer is important. Wikipedia aims to be based on reliable published sources, such as books and newspapers. Any statement that is not based on such a source is liable to be removed, particularly if it is contentious. Maproom (talk) 06:25, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

For more information, you might be interested in reading the guideline Wikipedia:Reliable sources. GoingBatty (talk) 12:28, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

my edits were reverted!

hi. I started Wikipedia as a new user this morning, and I added valid facts linked to the articles- Comics and Dc comics. But within several hours of my edits, I found them reverted by two users. I wish to know why my contributions were removed. thank you -thejuiceboxraider — Preceding unsigned comment added by Juiceboxraider (talk • contribs) 05:56, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Sorry that your experience hasn't got off to the best start. CycloneYoris (diff) and JasonAQuest (diff) don't give reasons for their reverts (which they should have, as your additions were clearly in good faith). However, your edits were nonetheless faulty, as they were unsourced, displayed poor grammar, were placed in the wrong sections, and duplicated information already present in the articles. That's fine; we don't expect new editors to everything right first time. You might like to try this tutorial to learn more about you can make helpful contributions. One more thing: when talking to other editors on talk pages or forums like this Help desk, please sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~) to ensure other editors know who said what. Hope you stick around! – Teratix ₵ 06:17, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

understood... sorry for the inconvenience. thank you for helping me out. Juiceboxraider (talk) 12:15, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Page

Good morning

Thanks for taking the time to read this message first and foremost.

I am a UEFA A License football coach, ex player for a professional club and also many non league sides.

I am now a professional coach, and ex 1st team scout for a league 1 club.

It’s purely from interest.

How and why have I never had a wiki page? I know people very similar to myself , that have. And wondered why I haven’t.

Any feedback would be great.

Regards

Mark Thompson — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.252.129.132 (talk) 08:46, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello Mark, if you played or managed in a fully professional league (see WP:FPL for list of eligible leagues) and / or played in a competitive fixture between two fully professional clubs then technically you pass the criteria at the football notability guidelines. If that is the case then an article (not page) might be possible but it should be written by editors with no connection to yourself; there is no 'automatic' creation of articles and it may just be that no-one has got around to it yet. A request for an article to be created can be made at WP:RA. Cheers. Eagleash (talk) 09:01, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Attributing a CC license inside a reference

Hi, some sources have a Creative Commons license. I would like to include that CC status within the reference, but template:Cite web and template:Cite journal do not seem to provide parameters for that option (it could be CC=4 , for example). I can't find any help pages about it. How do I show that a reference is a CC source? TGCP (talk) 09:11, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello, TGCP. Why would you want to show that? What difference does it make to anything how the source is licensed? --ColinFine (talk) 11:18, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi, why not? Wikipedia is itself an open source. We (also) cite to help users find additional information, and CC sources are making information more accessible; the source content can be easily included for further work, after evaluating the source quality. That's worth noting in the reflink. I see this as a further extension of wp:Citing sources#Convenience links, "open-access repository/green open access links are generally preferable to paywalled or otherwise commercial and unfree sources. TGCP (talk) 11:45, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

This question occurs occasionally at WT:CS1. The consensus there has been that licencing is not something that the cs1|2 templates need to support. All links in a cs1|2 citation are convenience links. All links in title-holding parameters (|title=, |chapter=, and the like) are presumed to be free-to-read unless marked otherwise with |url-access=, |chapter-url-access=, etc. Sources linked from the named identifiers (|doi=, |mr=, ...) are presumed to lie behind paywalls or registration barriers unless marked otherwise (|doi-access= and a select few other similar parameters).

The purpose of a citation is to help the reader locate the source that supports the content of an en.wiki article. How the source's copyright owner has licensed the work for distribution / reuse is not relevant except that editors here should not be linking to pirated copies of copyrighted material.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:19, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Translating Poetry

Hi, everyone. I am translating Milton's L'Allegro into another language. To describe the poem correctly some lines from the poem are also on the page. Should I translate these lines in that language too, of course, the original one will also stay or would it be exaggerating my translation Nanimus (talk) 10:47, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Nanimus: You should translate the quotes into the target language as readers may not understand English. You could look for similar articles in the target language to see whether it is usual to quote the original English as well. See Wikipedia:Translate us for further guidance. TSventon (talk) 11:21, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

If you're translating the article L'Allegro (with its quotations of the poem L'Allegro) into Turkish for the Turkish-language Wikipedia, then you should try to meet the standards required, or recommended, by Turkish-language Wikipedia, or your estimations of what's likely to be understood/wanted/appreciated by readers for whom Turkish is a first language (and most likely English is not). My own opinion is of little worth, but anyway: Although I like to think (or to delude myself) that I'm at least moderately literate, I find myself unable even to parse for example In Heav'n yclept Euphrosyne, / And by men, heart-easing Mirth, / Whom lovely Venus at a birth / With two sister Graces more / To ivy-crowned Bacchus bore. I mean, we've here got Euphrosyne, men, Mirth, Venus, birth, two sister Graces, and Bacchus; but I can't work out who among them bore whom or did what to whom. I doubt that your Turkish readers will understand either. -- Hoary (talk) 12:48, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) That's because, Hoary, you may be unaware of the disputed parentage of Mirth (lol). Plus you make it difficult for yourself by leaving out the first line: But come, thou Goddess fair and free, / In heaven yclept Euphrosyne, etc. Thus Milton calls upon heaven-named Euphrosyne, goddess of Mirth, one of the three graces and sister of Thalia and Aglaea (With two sister Graces more,) to decide whether heart-easing Mirth is the child born (bore) of lovely Venus and ivy-crowned Bacchus, Or—which lines you omit entirely, just as the L'Allegro article misleadingly does—whether (as some sager [i.e. wiser] sing) / Mirth is the offspring of The frolic wind that breathes the spring / namely Zephyr, with Aurora playing, / As he met her once a-Maying— And since it's still May Day today I won't take issue with the ghost of Milton over his scansion and rhyming of "the spring" and "a-Maying".

"Doctor Johnson has remarked that, in L'Allegro, " no part of the gaiety is made to arise from the pleasures of the bottle." The truth is, that Milton means to describe the cheerfulness of the philosopher or the student, the amusements of a contemplative mind. And on this principle, he seems unwilling to allow that Mirth is the offspring of Bacchus and Venus, deities who preside over sensual gratifications ; but rather adopts the fiction of those more serious and sapient fablers, who suppose that her proper parents are Zephyr and Aurora: intimating, that his cheerful enjoyments are those of the temperate and innocent kind, of early hours and rural pleasures." Thomas Wharton the younger, quoted in Brydges' Works of Milton Vol. 6 p. 97. He goes on to denigrate Milton as a Puritan and killjoy.

@Nanimus: You are very brave, translating poetry is even harder than creating a Wikipedia article (ie almost impossible).

L'Allegro is fairly long, over 150 lines. The most poetry you usually find on English WP is a famous sonnet of 14 lines which literary critics have already written about. The vast majority of all poetry is available on the internet, and WP doesn't see itself as a repository of everything

Personally, I would point out in the article out that Milton's language can be as difficult as Shakespeare's, and filled with mythological and classical allusion (I'm sure there are reliable sources for this); as Hoary points out, even modern native English speakers (most of whom were denied the doubtful benefits of a classical education) tend to have a hard time understanding his poetic diction. Take, for example, a word like the Anglo-Saxon 'yclept', "named or called", the past participle of clipian, clepe "to call, summon, invoke": this usage was definitely literary, quaint or archaic, even in Milton's time. I would think about deliberately using an Ottoman Turkish word from around 900 AD. As to your original question, I might even give the original quotes in English along with a literal translation, but then you are inviting questions about "how good is my own poetical rendering?". I've tried it myself, so best of luck. I found this article, which may help. There is a vast amount to learn here on WP, I suggest reading Wikipedia:Contributing to Wikipedia, which itself takes an entire day (or a lifetime). MinorProphet (talk) 21:43, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Nanimus: Sorry, I missed a bit: Euphrosyne was named in Heaven as well as on Earth (And by men). Also, just in case Wharton's explanation is a little wordy: Mirth, the distinguishing characteristic of the 'Allegro' archetype—as opposed to the melancholic 'Il Penseroso'—can be found either in drink in the evening (Venus and Bacchus are the subject of many Old Master paintings, search eg for Wikimedia Venus and Bacchus), or—Milton's preferred source—in the fresh breeze on a spring morning (Zephryus and Aurora). This latter pair are not so well-known as a couple in mythology. Astraeus (the dusk), and Aurora or Eos (the dawn) were Titans and therefore older than the Olympians: and among their children were the Anemoi or the four winds, one of which was Zephyrus. This is the only illustration of them I could find, although Eos had a thing for other handsome young men. Maybe Milton was hinting at something in his first published poem. MinorProphet (talk) 04:33, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

MinorProphet, you say "you make it difficult for yourself by leaving out the first line", but I simply read what was presented in the article. (Though you could reasonably say that I made it difficult for myself by not bothering to look up the poem -- and indeed, I presume(d) that all of Milton is available online, for those who bother to google for it.) That aside, I enjoyed reading your comments above. Please linger at the "Help desk", providing erudite responses. -- Hoary (talk) 07:37, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your helps and suggestions on it. I translated the lines that are on the Wikipedia page of L'allegro. I am lucky that I am interested in poetry in both languages and I think, I've been able to describe main point. I read lots of guidelines before, I started to contribute to Wikipedia which is pretty new btw. I will read the suggested articles of MinorProphet and then I will look into my translations again. I wish you have a nice day Nanimus (talk) 03:45, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Nanimus, You don't have to use the exact quotations from the English article which, as I showed earlier, misses the whole point of Milton's mention of Venus and Bacchus, by omitting the lines referring to Zephyrus and Aurora. Interestingly, the source quoted in the article (Stella Revard, Milton and the Tangles of Neaera's Hair, p. 97) also evades the point that Milton thinks Euphrosyne is the daughter of Eos and her own son by Zephyros, as Thomas Wharton delicately indicates. It is impossible that Revard was unaware of the difficulty. She points out that Euphrosyne is more often thought to be the daughter of Zeus and the Oceanid Eurynome; Milton's genealogy is unusual and off-beat, to say the least. Stella Revard's book is available to borrow to registered users (free) on Archive.org for 14 days. I'm borrowing it at the moment, but I'll let you know when it's available.

Revard's book also demonstrates well how completely Milton's poetry is influenced by Ancient Greek poetry, especially the Pindaric Odes which are the very embodiment of what we now call 'mythology', but at the time were hymns invoking real gods and goddesses. To read Pindar, even in translation (and Milton knew Greek well), is to be plunged into the fons et origo of the classical mindset.

Interestingly, Revard specifically cites (p. 97) the Olympian Ode 14 with its invocation of the Graces, which also is my favourite: "O ye who haunt the land of goodly steeds that drinketh of Kephisos' waters, lusty Orchomenos' queens renowned in song, O Graces, guardians of the Minyai's ancient race, hearken!" The Ode was written in honour of Asopichos of Orchomenos, winner of the boys' short foot-race in the Olympics of 476 BC. His father had already died, and the Ode ends with a reference to him in Hades: " Fly, Echo, to Persephone's dark-walled home, and to his father bear the noble tidings, that seeing him thou mayest speak to him of his son, saying that for his father's honour in Pisa's famous valley he hath crowned his boyish hair with garlands from the glorious games." I think it's best to continue this conversation on a talk page. I hope you enjoy reading the pdf I recommended. MinorProphet (talk) 18:45, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

MinorProphet, In the translation I had to use modern Turkish words. So, I cannot exactly give the meaning of "yclept" also, some Ottoman Turkish words for few reasons regard to language and poetry in Turkish. It will be a little long because of the complexion of the history of Turkish poetry. There are mainly two different literature tradition in the Ottomans until Tanzimat. The first one is Ottoman poetry or more commonly Divan literature in Turkish. This poetry highly influenced by Persian and Arabic poetry tradition. Arabic prosody is the only prosody used in these poems and the phonetic of Turkish is not exactly fit in this prosody because of that reason most of the poet did not use Turkish words within their poems even though they expressed it in Turkish grammar. Also, many rich and variant expressions in these languages highly influenced it too. Themes of this poetry highly influenced by metaphysics, metaphysical love, and some religious aspects et cetera. So, we cannot find the aspect of Nature or return to rural in this poetry. Also, this poetry tradition is elitist and was not common among the folks but was common within Ottoman clerks and elites. To understand this poetry, you need to be highly educated in that era. Second, literature tradition in this era Turkish folk literature or we can simply refer as folk literature. We can refer to it as the vice versa of Divan literature. It was common among folks. Syllabic verse was used in this poetry and traditions of this poetry was completely unique to Turks. The syllabic verse also completely fits with Turkish phonetic and even today you can express yourself easily with Syllabic verse. The main themes of this poetry are love, sorrow, nature, and also, some religious aspects. Usually, it read as songs with Turkish lute and even nonliterate were poets in this tradition. So, the expression of deep emotions with simplicity could define it easily. That was the first part. The second part will be about language. The Turkish language had a revolution in the 20th century. https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/163501.pdf?casa_token=U-I55m3NDKUAAAAA:egLN0P1_zT3G5Qaw9-VNN28KKSMLg_w6jOVgKjfwYyBRLeobpsZn58zFB5XHxBzdLQ4ZPBQlh9Z7B0zmtcl_OzS-HLUEcSJyJBnNyzIbCaCsuntGJQ you can read that article about it but I can say that it is really controversial issue needs to be argued detailly. But to summarize, it was a purification of language from Persian and Arabic. It has ideological reasons and also practical reasons too. Scientific and cultural language and terms were really complex with lots of mixing words from both languages. Of course, there are lots of words in Turkish from these languages since naturally become part of it but the high-cultural and scientific language "purified" from these words or not used anymore. There are two main views on this revolution. The first one is that yes it was needed, language itself was a barrier and unnatural to its natives. The second one is that it kills the richness within the language. As a result of the change of the alphabet and language revolution literature rate rose dramatically with a wide education campaign in that era. So, the language of divan literature is completely uncommon for Turkish readers and it would be unnatural to add words from that to translation. It would not create same effect with "yclept" because at least you can guess the meaning in English. In the divan literature, pastoral was not a common theme, therefore it would not create any connotation to the original one. On the usage of the folk literature, today's Turkish language is pretty similar to that folk literature and there is no quite difference. Only pastoral themes are quite alike but as natural we cannot find any mythological reference. In the divan literature, you can find mythological references from Persian mythology. Unfortunately, until the 20th century, other mythological references did not use in poetry. Because of these reasons, unfortunately, I cannot find any reference point in the old Turkish poetry since uniquely, L'allegro's themes are like a crossfire of both tradition in a sense. It has a pastoral theme with metaphysics from mythological references. I translated the various parts that would be fit in an encyclopedia and give some phonetics without loss of meaning in translation. I add some notes for double meanings in Turkish. I think I resembled the soul but as natural it is not as beautiful as in English. I know that I mentioned many things. I hope I could present to you, good arguments and points. Thank you so much for your suggestions and help Nanimus (talk) 13:55, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

how should i contribute?

Hi... its me again. I just thoroughly completed the Wikipedia adventure as proposed, and now i am not quite sure of what to do. I read some policy articles sent to my talk page by user:eagleash. I have understood the main things to be concerned about when contributing, but since fun facts and video gaming guidelines are not generally accepted in mainspace articles, my assist in large scale article editing would not be that effective as i only have experience in certain categories. Please help me out. Juiceboxraider (talk) 13:07, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Juiceboxraider: I suggest you start reading articles in those categories where you have experience or interest. You'll likely encounter errors or opportunities for improvement. You can try making the edits yourself, or discussing them on the article talk pages. You could also look on Wikipedia:Task Center for other opportunities. GoingBatty (talk) 13:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Juiceboxraider: You could also improve the writing of poorly written articles, of which there are very many. For example, if you Google for "tender age" site:en.wikipedia.org, you'll get a list that starts with legitimate uses of this cliché but soon switches to starry-eyed (and thus unencyclopedic) phrasing of how this or that biographee did such and such "at the tender age of X". Plain "at X" is fine, "the tender age of" can be cut, and any article that has this is likely also to have a variety of similar horrors, just waiting for your editorial machete. -- Hoary (talk) 13:34, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Juiceboxraider:, @Hoary: This may be stating the obvious, but where "tender age" is part of a quotation it should not be changed. TSventon (talk) 13:58, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Juiceboxraider:, Wikipedia:Community portal provides links to some articles that need improvement in various ways. You might look there to see whether any of the types of improvements needed interest you. Eddie Blick (talk) 15:37, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@TSventon:, yes, if a quotation uses "tender age" (or similar), then it should be left intact -- if the quotation itself really is worth keeping. Quotations laden with laudatory silliness are perhaps better deleted in toto. -- Hoary (talk) 07:23, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks guys... i visited the task center some time ago and i found copy editing and anti-vandalism quite interesting. I haven't just yet come to an understanding of how anti-vandalism works, but I will take some time and look into it. I am also interested in article creation, however, it was listed under the advanced category. So in the meantime, i will polish some articles in the comic book category. 15:46, 1 May 2020 (UTC)peaceout — Preceding unsigned comment added by Juiceboxraider (talk • contribs)

@Juiceboxraider: You could also search for "industry leader", another overused promotional phrase in company articles that can be excised if the cited source (if there even is one) doesn't exactly say they are the leader. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:56, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

side question

I read a few more articles and i saw that it was fine to create a draft article before publishing. I am thinking of creating an article about the game pubg mobile lite. I inspected the PUBG article and found out that there wasn't a separate page for the mobile lite version. Is this fine or should I refrain from creating a new article just now?Juiceboxraider (talk) 16:06, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

hi I NEED HELP PLEASE!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.222.75.115 (talk) 16:09, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

I suggest adding information about the mobile version into the existing article. If that section becomes large enough then revisit the question of a seperate article for it. RudolfRed (talk) 17:28, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Juiceboxraider: I agree with RudolfRed - there's a brief mention in PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds#Mobile versions, and it's in the release timeline on the right. You could expand that and see where it takes you, eventually doing a content fork if the info warrants it. But first you should familiarize yourself with what's there already. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:53, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Juiceboxraider: you've been asking for advice on how to contribute to Wikipedia. The best advice I can give is, start by doing easy things (correcting spelling and grammar, or whatever you can do without reading any documentation), and move on to slightly harder things (such as supplying missing references, or fixing mis-formatted tables). Leave really hard tasks, such as creating new articles, until last. Maproom (talk) 07:46, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

retrieving a deleted page's content

Hi,

I am new to wikipedia and mistakenly published a COI page. I understand now this is not allowed but would like to retrieve the contents written on the page for further studies and the I have been treated with a love bitterness by a member of your users called Deb. I am appalled by the lack of empathy from this person. She clearly knows I do not intend to republish the page and I have made myself clear I only wish to have the content retrieved but she has not been helpful so far. What sort of community are we trying to build here? Please can I have my page back? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hugo3055 (talk • contribs) 16:22, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Hugo3055: You can ask at WP:REFUND for the draft to be undeleted, if you intend to work on improving it. Not all are approved. RudolfRed (talk) 16:36, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Hugo3055 is asking for the text to be emailed to him. Apparently he didn't save it. Deb has voiced reluctance to email anyone but a seasoned contributor, which I can understand. Hugo - I'll ask Deb to email it to me. If she agrees, I'll let you know and you can email me so I can send it to you. Stay tuned. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:15, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Tim, I've e-mailed you. It's clear that this user was here for one purpose only. Deb (talk) 09:00, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Comprehensive Geographically-Specific Chronology

I've searched for a long time for a chronology that lists every single event in history, with corresponding GPS coordinates. How do we create this? Here's an example:

1941-12-07 | 18:18:31 Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) | 1941-12-07 07:48:31 Hawaiian Time (UTC-10.5) | GPS Decimal Coordinates: 21.365, -157.95 | The Pearl Harbor naval base is attacked by 353 Imperial Japanese aircraft (including fighters, level and dive bombers, and torpedo bombers) in two waves, launched from six aircraft carriers.

1941-12-07 | 19:18:00 Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) | 1941-12-08 04:18:00 Japan Standard Time (UTC+9) | GPS Decimal Coodinates: 35.672448, 139.757570 | Via the Board of Information of The Japan Times, Japan announces a declaration of war on the United States, but the declaration was not delivered until the following day.

...

1942-02-01 | Requested Edit Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) | Requested Edit Kansu-Szechwan Time (UTC+7) | GPS Decimal Coordinates: 36.618638, 109.467266 | Mao Zedong makes a speech on "Reform in Learning, the Party and Literature", starting the Yan'an Rectification Movement in the Communist Party of China.

This would list everything on one page chronologically from beginning of recorded history up to present day. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mtsuzuki (talk • contribs) 20:08, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

This sounds like a gigantic project, and certainly nothing remotely like what we do here on Wikipedia. I would suggest you seek advice at our Computing Help Desk, where such questions are more appropriate than here. --Orange Mike | Talk 20:21, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Mtsuzuki: I had a history book that arranged everything chronologically by category - Government/Politics; Religion; Arts; Science/Technology and Travel/Migration. I can't find it but there's an excellent online version here. [[1]]. Now you just need to get them to add coordinates ;-) TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:07, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Orangemike:I will post the help request at the Computing Help Desk as well. At the same time, since Wikipedia has robust Timeline pages specific to year and even day, I do think it fits in well with what Wikipedia is already doing.Mtsuzuki (talk) 21:24, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Timtempleton:Thank you. I did see this, but unfortunately it only contains a few major events. What is needed is a comprehensive geographically-specific chronology that includes every single recorded event of every second of every day in every geographical point in history. Obviously this is a HUGE project, so it would be compiled gradually by volunteer contributors, like any Wikipedia entry.Mtsuzuki (talk) 21:24, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Mtsuzuki: Wow - you're thinking big. But before you get in too deep, you're going to have three types of events - those that take place at a fixed location in an instant, those that occur over time in one place, requiring a time range in your database, and those that start in one place and move, requiring multiple geographic coordinates in the database, or perhaps a broader geographic range versus a fixed coordinate. I'd say unless you limit your scope to the first category, what you are trying to do may be impossible. Even if you could parse everything that ever happened those three ways, the exact time (and to a lesser degree the exact location) for specific segments of many historical events will be lost to history. Instead, you could broaden the scope and see how far that gets you. To start, you'd need to have a geographic and chronological range for every person and event on Wikipedia, and when you don't have the specific info you'd have to provide an estimate. The attempts to add GPS coordinates to every place article could be a starting point. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:46, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Timtempleton:Thank you for boiling that down to a few fundamental elements. What I envision starting out with is the relatively precise time or time span, as well as the relatively precise geographic coordinates or broader geographic coordinates, depending on the event. For example, the attack on Pearl Harbor could be noted as occurring on 1941-12-07 at 18:18:00 Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) and 07:48:00 Hawaiian Time, since the exact second may not be known. When the exact second is known, someone could add it with source citation. In terms of location, the GPS coordinates at the center of Pearl Harbor naval base would be the broad entry, but the event could be gradually broken down into the individual component events entailed by the broader event, e.g. the exact coordinates of the scuttled Japanese mini-sub, of the first downed plane, of the first torpedo hit, of the first dropped bomb, etc. There are many sources for details of a famous event like this in recent history. So the initial data would come from Wikipedia's extant entries and the data from Wikidata, and then contributors would build on to that, in general from broad, major times and places of events to more specific component details of the events. Finally, you are exactly right. I would like to find a way to compile the geographic and chronological range for every person and event on Wikipedia into one comprehensive world history page.Mtsuzuki (talk) 05:48, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

@Mtsuzuki: This sounds like a job for Wikidata. By contrast to wikipedia articles, Wikidata is a database of structured data items. Each article in Wikipedia is supposed to have a Wikidata item. I do not know if there are fields for GPS and date, or if there is a field that can be used to identify the item as a historical event, but fields can be added. This would give you a place to start. You would then need to do data mining in Wikipedia to populate those three fields from data in Wikipedia articles (when they are not already populated). This would be a long term project which cannot be completely automated, but it would be possible to generate your timeline from the Wikidata automatically, and do things like generating localized lists, etc., and there is hope that editors would get into the habit of populating these fields. -Arch dude (talk) 21:51, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Mtsuzuki: Here is an example: the Wikidata item for the Battle of Hastings is d:Q83224. It has a date and a location, and is an "instance of" "battle". You can choose to (attempt to identify) all "instance of" types that are historical events, or you can add a new "instance of" use the type of "historical event" and add it to wikidata items, or do something else. But just for fun, an initial experiment, write a Wikidata retrieval script for battles and display them in chronological order, with their coordinates. -Arch dude (talk) 22:03, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Mtsuzuki: I just looked, and "battle" is an instance of "historical event". I do not know enough about database searches in general or Wikidata in particular to create a list of all articles that are instances of items that are themselves instances of "historical event". You will need to get help on the Wikidata help desk. Good luck! -Arch dude (talk) 22:08, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Orangemike, Timtempleton, and Arch dude:Thank you all so very much. After a bit of research, I think I've figured this out. I've realized that there are tons of timelines on Wikipedia at List of timelines. I wonder if there is some way to create a page like Timeline of the Middle Ages by automatically compiling all the dates and events from every year entry under List of years. That would be step 1. So far, the only thing I can think of would be to first create a page based on the format of the Timeline of the Middle Ages (adding columns for UTC time and geographic coordinates), but then add the data also from Timeline of ancient history and Timeline of modern history and any other extant Wikipedia timelines. The second step would be to automatically attach geographic coordinates to each event. Finally, it would be a good old-fashioned Wikipedia free for all to gradually add more events. Mmmm... yummy. I'm getting excited.Mtsuzuki (talk) 06:25, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Fuschia Phlox Update

Hi,

I would like to add a page to Wikipedia about Fuschia Phlox. I have written the text and published it but who checks it and posts it to wikipedia for general viewing? I wrote one about 2 years and now I have updated that page. thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ejrussell (talk • contribs) 21:21, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Your draft has no references to published reliable sources independent of the subject to demonstrate notability. You will find advice at WP:Your first article. --David Biddulph (talk) 21:32, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

A Google search for "Fuschia Phlox" finds very little to suggest that she might be notable enough to warrant a Wikipedia article. (Note for anyone else thinking of searching: she really does spell her name like that.) Maproom (talk) 07:58, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

I assumed it was the name of a plant. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:20, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Ax09tongo78

Dear Wikipedia Wikipedia is great but my bad news is Wikipedia is going to end. Wold you please help me? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ax09tongo78 (talk • contribs) 23:07, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Ax09tongo78: Welcome to Wikipedia. Nothing lasts forever, but Wikipedia will likely be around for quite some time. What help are you looking for? — Preceding unsigned comment added by RudolfRed (talk • contribs) 23:13, 1 May 2020 (UTC)