Talk:Ali Khamenei/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Free Thinking Seats

I tagged the section for copyediting because it is an absolute mess of bad grammar and esoteric jargon/euphemisms used by the regime which are, tragically, spoken in Wikipedia's voice. The section may have to be removed altogether, but for now I will just tag it. Dr. K. 06:57, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

On second thought, this whole mess has nothing to do with Khamenei. Who cares who discussed what with whom. Khamenei just suggested its formation. Just add a sentence or two about that. The rest of this stuff does not belong here. I just removed the whole section. Dr. K. 07:12, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Here is an example of this meaningless jargon-fueled puffery:

The freethinking seats is described as a bilateral or multilateral meetings with the supporters and opponents of a theory to form a free scientific discussion. The subject of these forums can be Social, intellectual, cultural, political or any scientific and controversial subject.[241] Tarbiat Modares University held it’s first freethinking seats on the Holy Defense with attendance of Hussein Ardestani, a historian and narrator during the Holy defense era and now the head of the "Center for the Holy Defense Documentation and Research", some of the major. Challenging issues of the Holy Defense were discussed by the professors and students of the university at the session.[240]

Forget about how meaningless this puffery is, or how bad the grammar is. It essentially says that a bunch of Iranian academics and students got together to discuss the Iran-Iraq war with some guarantees that the secret police will not bust the meeting. Hardly noteworthy for most countries, although for Iran it may be something new. But, even so, does anyone think that this is even remotely connected to Khamenei? I don't think so. Dr. K. 07:55, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Although I agree that some of the materials don't belong here, could you show us how the text is "jargon-fueled puffery" and that how being "new" is a criteria for inclusion of something? Btw, you two removed the well-sourced material by edit war. --Mhhossein ^talk 16:57, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Example 1

...and that how being "new" is a criteria for inclusion of something If something is new to Iran, like limited academic free speech under controlled conditions, then it may be worth mentioning. I don't know why you are asking for clarification for such a rather self-evident fact, but I'll AGF and just gave you the reason. As far as the puffery, I gave you an example above, but let's examine this more closely:

...with attendance of Hussein Ardestani, a historian and narrator during the Holy defense era and now the head of the "Center for the Holy Defense Documentation and Research", some of the major. Challenging issues of the Holy Defense were discussed by the professors and students of the university at the session.

Do you see how this guy Hussein Ardestani is puffed-up as a historian and narrator during the Holy defense era and now the head of the "Center for the Holy Defense Documentation and Research",.. just to elevate his status, and in a fashion completely unrelated to Khamenei? There are more examples of this puffery, but I am not here to give tutorials on puffery. Dr. K. 17:11, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Example 2

Another example of meaningless, jargon-filled puffery:

Ayatollah Khamenei said The appointees of the Leader may even have a view different from mine on some political and social issues, which is no problem, because the main issue is general and revolutionary orientation [of these people].

Who are "these people"? And what does because the main issue is general and revolutionary orientation mean? What is general and revolutionary orientation supposed to mean? And how could the political goal of the general and revolutionary orientation have anything to do with genuine academic discourse? I hope now you can see how this puffed-up jargon is both meaningless and confusing. Dr. K. 17:24, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Example 3

Another example of meaningless, jargon-filled puffery:

as a means to achieve software movement and scientific development of the country, based on intellectuality and morals.

What is software movement? How does software move? Also the description scientific development of the country, based on intellectuality and morals. is awkwardly-phrased ("intellectuality"), redundant puffery. Do you know of scientific development not based on intellectual achievement? And connecting "morals" to scientific development sounds like political propaganda. Dr. K. 18:04, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

End of example 3

could you show us how ... And please, unless your account is shared by more than one person, please cut the plural when talking to me or other editors. It is presumptuous (you don't presume to talk on behalf of the whole wiki, do you?), confusing and unnecessary, unless you consider yourself a member of the royal family. Thanks. Dr. K. 18:10, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Sorry that I don't have enough time reading these wall of texts. I suggest you to write more concise to us, next time. --Mhhossein ^talk 18:47, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

I suggest you improve your behaviour and try reading relevant information. If you don't have time to read it, don't ask irrelevant questions and then try to post silly suggestions to waste the time of editors who tried to inform you. And, again, unless your account is a WP:SHAREDACCOUNT, or you presume to speak on behalf of the whole wiki, or you are a member of the royal family, you should cut the plural when addressing other editors. Dr. K. 18:59, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

You simply let your self making baseless and bizarre accusations and will get offended when asked to "write more concise to us [WP editors]"? I suggest you not to comment on every single part of my comment. Thanks. --Mhhossein ^talk 13:56, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

You asked me: could you show us how the text is "jargon-fueled puffery" and I gave you three short examples with detailed justifications. Is it my fault that there were multiple examples of puffery and you could not detect it on your own and instead you asked me to show you where the puffery was, as if you are incapable to see it for yourself? To add insult to injury, instead of reading any of these self-contained, three examples which I provided, you dismissed all of them as a "wall of text". That shows that instead of being thankful to me for trying to help you understand the concept of puffery, you instead chose to attack me further. Now you try to justify your behaviour with further nonsense. My only fault is that I took you seriously and tried to respond to you, instead of just ignoring your nonsense about "walls of text". "write more concise to us [WP editors]"? You are not "WP editors", you are only one editor. Don't presume to speak on behalf of other editors. Unlike you, other editors are fully capable of understanding my points and have not come here to complain. Dr. K. 18:29, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

• I have added example numbers so that you can understand that this is not a "wall of text". Now they are just three short and concise examples and comments. You can read one concise example at a time. Dr. K. 18:46, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

@Mhhossein: @Dr.K.: I see this discussion right now! I believe that the text belongs to Free Thinking Seats is sourced by reliable references, So we can keep this section by rewording or at least removing some sentences. Saff V. (talk) 07:43, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

@Dr.K.: I can't understand why do you accuse me to doing edit war! for first I added this section to article and you removed it. Then I have tried to remove the problem based on above discussion, but for second time you removed it. why it is very bad? I just try to improve article.Saff V. (talk) 09:17, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

First, what you are trying to add is a WP:COPYVIO. Second, the grammar and English are terrible. Please stop adding this stuff into the article. I have also informed an admin about this. And no more pinging please. They don't work currently anyway. Dr. K. 09:48, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks to Mhhossein's clarifications, I've now reworded the text and added quotation marks where ever was needed in a session. Any way Every one note that persistent removal of well-source materials and whole section from the article is taken seriously and may not have good outcomes.If there is problem with that text, please mention here.Saff V. (talk) 13:50, 17 October 2017 (UTC) Regards!

If there is problem with that text, please mention here. No. It doesn't work that way. I already told you multiple times that there are many problems with the text. You cannot restore text that basically is nonsensical, propagandistic, and based on WP:PRIMARYSOURCES. This is an encyclopedia, not a library of badly-written, puffed-up sentences. Every one note that persistent removal of well-source materials and whole section from the article is taken seriously and may not have good outcomes. Talk to yourself about this threat, not to me. I am the one trying to improve the 'pedia, not you by adding this incoherent stuff. I repeat what I said above and I also add more examples:

Example 4

Another example of meaningless, jargon-filled puffery:

...as a means to achieve software movement and scientific development of the country, based on "rationality and utilization of collective wisdom."

• What is software movement? How does software move? Up, down, left, right? How does software move? Please answer this simple question in plain English, before you add this nonsense into the article. Also the description as a means to achieve "software movement and scientific development of the country", based on "rationality and utilization of collective wisdom." is awkwardly-phrased, redundant puffery. Do you know of scientific development not based on "rationality"?

Example 5

“I totally agree with this and a Muslim revolutionary student devoted to Velayat [Faqih] should overpower opposite arguments in cold blood and with the power of logic and strength of argument, which this capacity exists today.”

• What does that mean? It is unclear, disconnected, and confusing. Who is a Muslim revolutionary student devoted to Velayat [Faqih] and what does that have to do with the "Free Thinking seats"? Who is "Velayat [Faqih]"? No explanations are given. Propaganda-sounding quotes are added into the article from WP:PRIMARYSOURCES with no background, no explanation, and in bad English. ...should overpower opposite arguments in cold blood and with the power of logic and strength of argument, which this capacity exists today. What does "cold blood" have to do with anything? How is "cold blood" connected to "Free Thinking seats"? "which capacity exists today" is logically unconnected to the previous sentence and it sounds like propaganda.

Example 6

• Example of esoteric, unexplained details:

  Formation of Free Thinking Seats was first suggested by Ali Khamenei through a letter to the seminary's graduates in 2003

Who are the seminary's graduates in 2003? What is "the seminary"? How do you expect the readers to know what this stuff you added is?

Additional problems

• The proposed section is filled with quotes. This is extremely bad practice. You cannot add a section largely based on quotes and from WP:PRIMARYSOURCES. You should use descriptive text instead, based on your own words. You cannot add to this article what essentially amounts to verbatim quotes of esoteric propaganda slogans. This is an encyclopedia. Consider adding these quotes to Wikiquote, not here.

For all these reasons, as I have explained above, you cannot restore this incoherent, esoteric stuff based on WP:PRIMARYSOURCES into the article unless you address these points one by one. Dr. K. 17:26, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Are you serious with this questions? In which direction does the social moves when we say Social movement? Don't know what seminary is, then check seminary. Stop being disruptive. --Mhhossein ^talk 18:00, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

The current text is simply a mess with several grammar and translation problems. It is not clear from the textwhat these seats are. It is also sourced to Iranian media which due to state influence and supression of speech regarding the Supreme Leader is probably not a RS. We are missing a perspective on how free these free seats are. Finally, it not clear why this is at all relevant/notable on this article.Icewhiz (talk) 18:35, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Every thing related to Khamenei published by RS can be here. There are grammar issues? simply tag the section. Moreover, you can search the net to find source showing "what these seats are" and "perspective on how free these free seats are."--Mhhossein ^talk 18:46, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

The section currently isn't comprehensible. General issues with the non-free Iranian press aside, Iranian press can not be critical of Khamenei as insulting him is a criminal charge carrying severe penalties - a charge applied a few times against jounalists in Iran - thus they can not be relied on this subject beyond the position of the subject himself (and not criticism thereof). It is unclear to me if these seats should be in this article, but it fails on yext quality and sourcing at the moment (I will note that non-Iranian sourcing, from high quality sources, would also be more convincing in terms of notability).Icewhiz (talk) 18:56, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

You have no WP:CONSENSUS to WP:EDITWAR this material into the article. First you clean up this mess by responding to my detailed points, then you add this stuff into the article. Dr. K. 18:53, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

In which direction does the 'social' move when we say Social movement? Mhhossein ^talk 19:03, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

I think we have a language barrier here. This is not about "social movement". What I wrote above and what you edit-warred into the article was "software movement". What is "software movement"? Dr. K. 19:06, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

You asked: "How does software move? Up, down, left, right? How does software move?". So, please say "In which direction does the 'social' move when we say Social movement?" --Mhhossein ^talk 19:09, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Social movement is a common phrase an English speaker usually understands. Comprehending "software movement" in this context (assuming this is not the free software movement) is not obvious.Icewhiz (talk) 19:11, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

The language barrier continues. The text edit-warred into the article is as a means to achieve software movement and scientific development of the country... The wikilink to "social movement" is WP:OR. This is about software movement not "social movement". Dr. K. 19:15, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Again, what is software movement? How does software move? Up, down, sideways? Dr. K. 19:20, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Just be serious and stop such questions. --Mhhossein ^talk 19:25, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Again, can you answer my question: What is software movement? How can you add terms in this article that you cannot explain? Dr. K. 19:28, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

You added to the article that Khamenei created the seats as a means to achieve software movement and scientific development of the country.... So again, what is software movement? and how do you achieve software movement? Dr. K. 19:34, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Dr.K., I can't understand due to the your questions, your knowledge about Islam isn't sufficient but you try to edit (actually revert)! Any way there is no problem with adding wiki link or note, this matter is solved but why do you removed whole text? In addition software movement has same meaning with Social mobility, produce knowledge by yourself without waiting others to produce it.

Icewhiz, free thinking seat is actually free thinking meeting! That is one of the Ali khamenei's politic thought. In other word this is Ali khamenei's page and all thoughts of him with supportive sources would be written here.Saff V. (talk) 07:54, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

That actually is possibly interesting for inclusion - but are there any sources outside of Iranian regime control that address this? I actually tried looking for "free thinking seats" in various permutations in English and came up with close to nothing. Is it possible this is translated to some other term?Icewhiz (talk) 10:50, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

free-thinking forums Social mobility makes a bit more sense in that garbled sentence. if as a means to achieve "software movement and scientific development of the country" is replaced with "as a means to promote "social mobility and scientific research in Iran" - it would be a sentence fragment I at least understand. Is this the intended meaning?Icewhiz (talk) 11:13, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Dr.K., I can't understand due to the your questions, your knowledge about Islam isn't sufficient but you try to edit (actually revert)! Don't make this personal. This has nothing to do with my knowledge of Islam. This is about your insistence to add a section to this article that fails basic grammar and English language rules. It's so bad that it does not deserve to be added to this article. Once you put together something that makes sense, come here and show it to us, so that we can verify it. That's all we ask. Until then, cease the WP:NPAs. Dr. K. 23:38, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

@Icewhiz: The other meaning that consider for free thinking seat' is free thinking forums by http://www.leader.ir/en/content/15017/Ayatollah-Khamenei-meeting-with-a-group-of-Tehran-seminaries%E2%80%99-directors,-teachers-and-students. In addition I found texts about it in other English website such as http://www.irna.ir/en/News/81681423 and http://www.irdiplomacy.ir/en/page/16797/Tehran%27s+Daily+Newspaper+Review.html. As Ali khamenei described, thesoftware movement differs from the Social mobility a bit. People aren't allowed to depend on others help to making movement during software movement! Is it clear for you? Saff V. (talk) 10:41, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

Free Thinking Forums works much better in English. Are you able to find any non-Iranian coverage of this? I am concerned regaded WP:IS as well as weight. I still do not totally understand the software movement concept. Finding a good non-Iranian source covering this would be key in terms of working this in.Icewhiz (talk) 18:35, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

@Icewhiz: Finding a good non-Iranian source covering this would be key in terms of working this in. I completely agree. This would help establish notability and relevance, and address issues of UNDUE, OR, and POV. That's assuming of course that a brand-new edit text proposal is made in English, that doesn't look like the old, incomprehensible text. However, there are a few more problems remaining. The text said that Khamenei proposed this in 2003 and then again in 2009.

The question arises, so what? What are the results of this proposal? What notable things have happened in Iran, because of Khamenei's proposal, since this proposal was made 14 years ago? From what I can discern, almost nothing has materialised, apart from a discussion about the Iran-Iraq war. A discussion in 14 years is nothing to write home about, and cannot be added to this article, as being just government-sponsored fluff. So far, this looks like a failed proposal. Failed proposals don't go into articles per WP:CRYSTAL. Dr. K. 19:23, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

@Saff V.: People aren't allowed to depend on others help to making movement during software movement! This sentence is incomprehensible. Dr. K. 19:56, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes, but one can infer the meaning - advancing based on one's own merits. We should focus on finding non-Iranian sources - which would also aid in formulating the text if the sourcing supports inclusion. I have not been able to find much with various "free thinking"+keyword searches - but I might be missing something in terms of jargon.Icewhiz (talk) 20:04, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes, but one can infer the meaning - advancing based on one's own merits. That's one interpretation, but the original sentence is so unclear, as to be meaningless. I don't think this is about individual advancement. It's about some kind of movement. A "movement" of any kind needs mass collaboration. That means getting help from others, and giving help to others. In any case, I think this proposal has not produced anything tangible in 14 years, and it looks very much like a failure. If Iranian sources cannot be found to indicate any successful outcomes from this proposal, I doubt you will find any non-Iranian sources about it. Dr. K. 20:15, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

User:Dr.K. is right. Thesoftware movement is not exactly individual advancement. According this source, Ali Khamenei described software movement as developing science through the newest way around the world. In other word, Iranian people shouldn't wait other country developed the science. Does it make sense? Saff V. (talk) 06:55, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Saff V. - If you can find a non-Iranian source (preferably in English, but OK in other languages) covering this - it would help us greatly both in terms of language and in terms of assessing notability. At present - I can verify Khamenei spoke of this (as his website, and Iranian websites are reliable for his statements) - but I can't assess notability beyond a soundbite - for that I need external sources assessing this statement and implementation.Icewhiz (talk) 07:01, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

I will search for more sources, meanwhile can you explain which policy/guideline says that materials to be included should pass notability? Saff V. (talk) 13:02, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

I believe the two most relevant policy bits are WP:PROPORTION strive to treat each aspect with a weight proportional to its treatment in the body of reliable, published material on the subject and WP:IS (before you shout essay - this is referenced to, as third-party, from WP:RS - Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy concerns regarding the Iranian media (and moreso the Supreme Leader's website) and the Supreme Leader. Note that copious coverage exists for Khamenei - he's a major figure - so to merit inclusion per PROPORTION we would need fairly significant coverage.Icewhiz (talk) 13:13, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

You know that "notability" is something else! (See wp:notability),although what you said may apply here. If there was supportive references, we would add materials to article. Saff V. (talk) 13:28, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Free-thinking fora was an idea proposed by Khamenei in 2003. That much is known. If this idea never produced anything of note in 14 years of its existence, except a meeting to discuss the Iran-Iraq war, then this idea is not notable. I'm sure Khamenei has hundreds or even thousands of ideas. Here, in this encyclopædic article, we only add these ideas that have produced something notable or widely discussed and analysed by third-party sources. Dr. K. 18:53, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes, we add the topics receiving enough coverage by the reliable sources, but producing "something notable" is not necessarily a criteria for inclusion. --Mhhossein ^talk 17:16, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Please don't wp:cherrypick my arguments. I mentioned notability, and coverage by third-party sources. As I mentioned before: I'm sure Khamenei has hundreds or even thousands of ideas. Here, in this encyclopædic article, we only add these ideas that have produced something notable or widely discussed and analysed by third-party sources. We cannot convert this article into a storage area for Khamenei's ideas, unless covered by third-party, independent sources. If you want to quote Khamenei, you can use Wikiquote, not Wikipedia. Also I agree with Icewhiz's analysis regarding WP:WEIGHT, WP:PROPORTION, WP:IS etc.. All these have to do with the coverage it has received in reliable and independent sources. Also the claims being made are big. Per WP:CRYSTAL, has any sort of "movement" happened in Iran in the past 14 years because of Khamenei's proposal? Has "scientific development" increased in these 14 years because of Khamenei's Free thinkers? Where are the reports of that increase by independent reliable sources? Wikipedia is not a WP:CRYSTALBALL for failed, and so far incomprehensible, proposals. Dr. K. 17:44, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

I searched through the net and now have found sources proving that using "software movement" phrase by Saff V. was absolutely right and meaningful. Some of them are as follows:

1 "The Islamic Awakening: Iran’s Grand Narrative of the Arab Uprisings", by Dr. Payam Mohseni, Crown Center for Middle-east Studies

This source comprehensively defines the concept of "software movement".

2 "Apocalyptic Politics On the Rationality of Iranian Policy", by Mehdi Khalaji, Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

You can simply search the term in this source.

3 "Pathology of Islamic Awakening and Ways for Dealing with", Advances in Natural and Applied Sciences, August 2014, Pages: 47-52

The above findings shows that the term is used by reliable and scholarly sources and proves how absurd the questions such as "How does software move? Up, down, left, right? How does software move?" were. --Mhhossein ^talk 17:58, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Source 2 and 3 are passing. Source 1 is useful, but doesn't describe free thinking seats, but it does at least explain what "software movement" is. Note usage within quotation marks in the sources - this is a inner Iranian jargon term that requires an explanation. Where are IS sources for free thinking seats?Icewhiz (talk) 18:16, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

The above findings shows that the term is used by reliable and scholarly sources and proves how absurd the questions such as "How does software move? Up, down, left, right? How does software move?" were. This is a silly and WP:CLUEless personal attack that lacks honesty or understanding of language or both. You should stop these underhanded tactics. When you first proposed the term "software movement" you never produced its definition when you were asked multiple times by myself and others, because you did not know the answer yourself. After weeks of discussing this, you finally find a source which defines it as:

the “software movement” (jonbesh-e narmafzari). The “software” of the Islamic Republic, in contrast to its “hardware,” refers to the programmatic ideas and doctrines according to which a governing system is constructed and run.

This definition that you found has nothing to do with the definition of the english term "software" when you and Saff V. proposed to add it to the article. So it would have been misleading and incomprehensible to use the English term "software" which is a completely different term from Khamenei's "software" as defined in the reference you provided. Also "movement" was not "social movement", as you linked in the article. According to the reference you supplied:

In other words, the purpose of the software movement is to formulate the theoretical ideas, both philosophical and social scientific, necessary to engage in “system-building” (nezam-sazi) and construct a true Islamic polity.

This has nothing to do with "social movement". So your edit was justifiably reverted and you were edit-warring to restore nonsense in English into the article. Please stop your silly tactics to justify yourself and your lack of comprehension of the English language. Dr. K. 18:29, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

And I agree with Icewhiz: this is a inner Iranian jargon term that requires an explanation. Where are IS sources for free thinking seats?. Yes, this is esoteric Iranian jargon not supported by independent sources. Dr. K. 18:33, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

This was not an honest comment because at least we never used software as "software". Moreover "This has nothing to do with "social movement"." is absolutely wrong! It's certainly a social movement. I knew the meaning from the beginning and it was you who were removing the term in warrior manner while you had zero understanding of it! Be polite please and stop using the "silly" term! Btw, try to write more briefly. --Mhhossein ^talk 05:28, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

This was not an honest comment because at least we never used software as "software". Seriously? Do you think that because you did not link to "software", you acted properly? Do you think that people need a link to the term "software" to understand what it means in English? When you use the term "software", with or without link, people understand the term as it appears in English, not as it appears in the esoteric jargon of the regime. This is deceptive editing.

Moreover "This has nothing to do with "social movement"." is absolutely wrong! It's certainly a social movement. I knew the meaning from the beginning and it was you who were removing the term in warrior manner while you had zero understanding of it! Please drop this line of argument; there is zero reliably-sourced evidence this is a social movement because the definition, from the reference you supplied, which I quoted above, does not refer to any "social movement" at all. If you cannot understand that, you are in no position to tell me that I was edit-warring.

Be polite please and stop using the "silly" term! Btw, try to write more briefly. I am always polite, but I also call a WP:SPADE a spade, when there is a need to do so, as in this sad case. You should also follow your own advice, and don't call my arguments "absurd" or "not honest", or that I have "zero understanding" as you did above, without providing any evidence that you understand any of the arguments I have put forward. Your insinuations and editing on this subject appear to be without merit. As far as telling me to try to write more briefly, you should try to write less of this stuff, and stop repeating the same points. Dr. K. 11:03, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Be civil please. Just look what a mess the TP has become. It's really not needed to comment on every single parts of others' comments. This way, the consensus building procedure will become difficult. --Mhhossein ^talk 17:29, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Be civil please. Just look what a mess the TP has become. It's really not needed to comment on every single parts of others' comments. This way, the consensus building procedure will become difficult.

Don't give me fake civility warnings. Of course I have the right to respond to each one of your silly insinuations. I don't want to encourage you to make more by leaving any of your repeated arguments unanswered. By the way, this matter has been decided. There is no consensus to add any of this stuff into the article. Unless you have new third-party sources and a brand-new text to propose you should refrain from commenting further. You have repeated your arguments multiple times and they all have been rejected, both here and at WP:DRN. Dr. K. 17:51, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

I agree that there's no clear explanation of why Free Thinking Seats relate to Khamenei, and oppose inclusion of any of the disputed material on that topic. I'm not even sure what it means. If it's significant and discussed in secondary references, perhaps Mhhossein should attempt to create a stand-alone page on the subject. power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:40, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

power~enwiki: Thanks for the comment. That it was khamenei who suggested the formation of these forums in academic centers, shows that they directly relate to Khamenei. Maybe later I try to find some more reliable sources. --Mhhossein ^talk 05:32, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

user:Mhhossein Thanks for mentioning reliable sources. But I can't find the main problem with this edit. If the problem is the meaning of software movement, the sources which presented by user:Mhhossein explain it clearly. If the problem is the notability of free thinking seat, Due to the which rules of wikipedia, should the material in the articles be notable?!(WP:NNC). All of us aren't new at here and I'm sure that we have written a lot of texts at articles just by using references without attention to notability of them.Please be fair in our judgement! Saff V. (talk) 08:12, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

@Saff V.: Please read this thread again point by point. Currently there is no WP:CONSENSUS for adding this edit into the article. The reasons are already written in this thread, so I will not repeat them. Dr. K. 17:09, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

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2017–18 Iranian protests

The article should be unprotected for addition of new material related to the 2017–18 Iranian protests. NBC news story.--2601:C4:C001:289E:8D3C:199:5C5:D176 (talk) 13:00, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Khamenei's family descends from Tabriz (Iran)

Khamenei's name suggests that his ancestors are native of Khamaneh, he is also related to previous Green Movement leader, Mir-Hossein Mousavi.

Khamenei however suggests in this YouTube video, where he is speaking the Azerbaijani language found in north-western Iran, that his great-grandfather is from Tabriz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5pkauveuWs

Khamenei's father might have been born in Najaf, but his family roots (his fathers grandfather) is of Tabrizi origin. WikiNutt (talk) 23:28, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

@WikiNutt: See the 'Early life and education' section. --Mhhossein ^talk 07:39, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 May 2018

5.134.175.148 (talk) 19:53, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

 Not done you need to say what needs changing, and exactly what it needs changing to. MPS1992 (talk) 20:00, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

The lead section, One of the world's last dictators

Hello, I know this message will come as a surprise to you WP editors. However, Right now, there are hundreds of thousands of prisoners in Iran who are dying and And this is the man who is concerned with this story. The people of Iran no longer have welfare, happiness, freedom and hope. People are dying in hospitals, prisons and streets and And this man is hoping to destroy Israel! This man sold Iran to Russia. He is one of the living dictators and this sentence should be in the lead section of article. Also Check this Links: A, B, C Please Reply me here, Thanks.--151.243.251.44 (talk) 11:00, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

References

https://www.france24.com/en/20190114-cargo-plane-crashes-iran-killing-13-army

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustical_measurements_and_instrumentation#Data_acquisition

86.154.128.126 (talk) 13:07, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Inconsistent punctuation with quotation marks

In some cases, a period/comma is put after the quotation marks, in other cases, before them. Check out ". or ", and ." or ," Which should be preferred?
Also, I'd like to ask, should the em dash follow a reference (like in "were injured—[33]"), or the other way round (were injured[33]—)?--Adûnâi (talk) 13:10, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page have been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for speedy deletion:

• 5th International Conference in Support of the Palestinian Intifada, Tehran (1).jpg
• Ahmad Mohammad Amer in International Quran Competition's participants Meeting With Ali Khamenei 2013 09.jpg
• Ali Khamenei crop.jpg
• Ali Khamenei in Iranian Revolution protests.jpg
• Ali Khamenei in Rahian-e Noor023.jpg
• Ali Khamenei met with Hajj authorities 2018 09.jpg
• Ali Khamenei reading Will of Ruhollah Khomeini in Majlis.jpg
• Ayatolla Ali Khamenei in Hospital after Assassination Attempt by khamenei.ir03.jpg
• Ayatollah Ali Khamenei at the Great Conference of Basij members at Azadi stadium October 2018 012.jpg
• Ayatollah Ali Khamenei at the Great Conference of Basij members at Azadi stadium October 2018 033.jpg
• Heads of State & Participants of 31th International Islamic Unity Conference Meeting with Ayatollah Sayyed Ali Khamenei 33.jpg
• Khamenei meeting Assembly of Experts members 06.jpg
• Sixth International Conference in Support of the Palestinian Intifada, Tehran (12).jpg

You can see the reasons for deletion at the file description pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:28, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:

• 5th International Conference in Support of the Palestinian Intifada, Tehran (1).jpg
• Ahmad Mohammad Amer in International Quran Competition's participants Meeting With Ali Khamenei 2013 09.jpg
• Ali Khamenei in Iranian Revolution protests.jpg
• Ali Khamenei met with Hajj authorities 2018 09.jpg
• Ayatollah Ali Khamenei at the Great Conference of Basij members at Azadi stadium October 2018 033.jpg
• Khamenei meeting Assembly of Experts members 06.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:11, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:

• Ali Khamenei crop.jpg
• Ali Khamenei in Rahian-e Noor023.jpg
• Ali Khamenei reading Will of Ruhollah Khomeini in Majlis.jpg
• Ayatolla Ali Khamenei in Hospital after Assassination Attempt by khamenei.ir03.jpg
• Ayatollah Ali Khamenei at the Great Conference of Basij members at Azadi stadium October 2018 012.jpg
• Heads of State & Participants of 31th International Islamic Unity Conference Meeting with Ayatollah Sayyed Ali Khamenei 33.jpg
• Sixth International Conference in Support of the Palestinian Intifada, Tehran (12).jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:44, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Citations regarding Khamenei reading Khomeini's will in Assembly of Experts

From his official website: http://farsi.khamenei.ir/video-content?id=9434 , http://farsi.khamenei.ir/memory-content?id=26142#607 . since a citation is needed but it seems my account is not qualified enough to edit the article. Fahambnd (talk) 13:29, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Neutral point of view and Due and undue weight

This article is not neutral. Why is there not a section titled Dictatorship? Also about human rights, Intervention in other countries, Execution of children and Cooperation with Russia. On this page I found some important stuff. He is one of the living dictators and this sentence should be in the lead section of article. Also Check this Links: A, B, C Iranian youths say for years: Give me back what’s mine. And what is their answer? ... Wikipedia should not protect the dirty politics of Liars. Anyway, Killing children in the arms of their mothers, Executions of Iranian political prisoners, Fighting with the nationality of Iran, Forcing girls to wear Batman costume and Brainwashing people of Iran, This is not something that can be proud of. I Just want a neutral article. Pozo de ira (talk) 11:03, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 May 2019

Add Ali Khamenei to the category Failed assassination attempt survivors (since I've been contributing to the category lately) Cinefan Cinefan (talk) 15:59, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

 Done BlackcurrantTea (talk) 07:39, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Removal of content

Hi Keivan.f. I noticed your removal of content with the edit summary reading "unbalanced and written in favor of the subject". Would you please elaborate on that? --Mhhossein ^talk 13:46, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

​ Hi. Well, as you can see, it wasn't me who had tagged the section, so it was already made clear that the section was not written with a neutral point of view. The reason is that although Ayatollah Khamenei's opinions about human rights were included in the section, there was no information about his actions or possible criticisms that he might have faced from his opponents. Since we have a separate article that covers the issue thoroughly, I decided to remove the paragraph and leave the link to that page. Keivan.f^Talk 03:32, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the response, blanking a section is not a suitable solution for resolving a NPOV tag. You could simply balance the sections by adding counter POVs. Moreover, the article you say "covers the issue thoroughly" has almost nothing to do with Khamenei. --Mhhossein ^talk 11:06, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

​ That was my bad then, cause I thought the other article was about human rights in Iran under Ayatollah Khamenei's rule. Never mind. I'll restore the previous version, and let someone familiar with the issue help with improving the section. Keivan.f^Talk 21:29, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Sanctions

Can anyone research and add the sanctions section to Ali Khamenei? Donald Trump recently signed an executive order that targets him along with his assets.

Link: Reuters article

-- 70.49.196.202 (talk) 09:46, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Time magazine quote

Would the following quote from Time magazine be OK for inclusion?:

"According to Time magazine, Khamenei has emerged as "the most powerful person in the Middle East," with uniformed military fighting in Syria and loyal proxies dominant in Lebanon, Yemen and Iraq. He has also presided over a campaign to raise global oil prices, shooting down a $176 million U.S. drone, blowing holes in tankers and bombing the heart of Saudi Arabia’s oil production."

Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 11:26, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

References

Health

His smoking habits is not a trival detail of his health. The section was about his health and whether or not he smokes is vital to determining his health.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ali_Khamenei&diff=prev&oldid=935159231&diffmode=source#Health — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eshaparvathi (talk • contribs) 19:12, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Birth date

What does certificate date and real date in infobox means? It doesn't even discussed in the article. Hddty (talk) 16:04, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

As he said, the birth date which mentioned in identity card is not accurate. Benyamin (talk) 00:40, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Cult of Personality?

I found Khamenei in "List of cults of personality". Any objections to adding this into the article? (it seems to be missing at this time). Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 10:51, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Nope you can't. Why are you trying to include such a a pejorative term in a WP:BIO article? --Mhhossein ^talk 11:46, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Mhhossein: Because it's backed by RSs. Are you interested in seeing/discussing the available RSs? Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 14:58, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

I checked the "The Iranian Mojahedin" source, there is any thing about Khamenei and cults of personality. If you can find material to support , please provide it here.Saff V. (talk) 07:53, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Mhhossein and Saff V.: pinging you both. Here are some sources that mention Khamenei having a cult/cult personality built around him:

• "Like Khomeini before him, Khamenehi is the object of a massive cult of personality. Official flatterers describe him as a "Divine Gift to Mankind" or as the "Shining Sun of the Imamate." In official discourse, he is quoted more often than either Prophet Muhammad or the Koran itself. Objects which he has touched during provincial visits are collected and sold as icons..."

• ""Elected" by a regime-vetted body called the Assembly of Experts, Khamenei was seen as something of a compromise candidate, and a reluctant leader. Today, he is the centre of a formidable personality cult, and journalists and citizens have been imprisoned for criticizing him."The Guardian

• "Furthermore, Khamenei has built an imposing cult of personality. Iranian media are required to refer to him not with the constitutional title of “Leader,” but as “Exalted Supreme Leader.” Speech after speech by senior officials demands loyalty not just to velayat-e faqih but to Khamenei himself. Those seen as criticizing him are treated harshly even if they espouse loyalty to the principle that gives him full power, as happened with former presidential candidates Mehdi Karrubi and Mir Hossein Mousavi." Washington Institute

• "In his ambiance, Khamenei lost a great deal of his legitimacy as the disgruntled public held him accountable for all that transpired. His hold on power was now more firm than ever, yet the accompanying price tag was not at all negligible... Despite the considerable efforts of his enthusiasts to promote a cult of personality around him, the Supreme Leader paid a heavy political price as he became the target of both fury and jokes after the 2009 contested elections. While Khamenei's supporters consider him an almost infallible guide, his detractors consider him the man most responsible for the regime's long list of shortcomings."Power and Change in Iran: Politics of Contention and Conciliation

• "...a cult of personality began to form around the supreme leader as hardliners hailed him as the standard-bearer they would coalesce around to confront the reformist surge." The Independent

• "In an interview with NBC on Wednesday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei cannot be trusted because he heads a "cult" that is "wild in its ambition and aggression" adding it is a “messianic, apocalyptic, radical regime.”"Haaretz

• “These people, the Iranian people, the majority of them are actually pro-Western,” he stated, adding, “But they don’t have that. They’re governed not by Rouhani, they’re governed by Ayatollah Khamenei. He heads a cult. That cult is wild in its ambitions and its aggression.” Times of Israel

• "Netanyahu: Iran's Khamenei 'heads a cult'" NBC news

Please provide a clear reason why a summary of these sources can't be included in the article. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 08:15, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Mhhossein and Saff V.: pinging you both again in case you've missed my last post. Please address why these sources can't be summarised into the article. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 06:02, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

I need time to investigate sources.Saff V. (talk) 12:17, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Vanamonde what about here? I don't think Mhhossein will reply to this ping, and just saw that Saff V. won't be editing IRAPOL articles for a while. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 10:45, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

I would strongly advise against using statements from Netanyahu to describe Khamenei (or vice versa). They are bitter enemies, as is well known. You do have a fair number of sources. If Mhhossein does not substantiate his objections, you can go ahead and add the content using the other cited sources. Vanamonde (Talk) 14:57, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

References
References

2019–2020 Iranian protests?

Shall we add info about the 2019–2020 Iranian protests in this article? There are sources that mention Khamenei as a central part of those protests; this Reuters source, for instance:

"Khamenei met with senior officials, including security aides, President Hassan Rouhani and members of his cabinet."

"Khamenei said he would hold the assembled officials responsible for the consequences of the protests if they didn’t immediately stop them. Those who attended the meeting agreed the protesters aimed to bring down the regime."

"The fourth official, who was briefed on the Nov. 17 meeting, added that Khamenei made clear the demonstrations required a forceful response."

"“Our Imam,” said the official, referring to Khamenei, “only answers to God. He cares about people and the Revolution. He was very firm and said those rioters should be crushed.”"

"Khamenei, who has ruled Iran for three decades, turned to his elite forces to put down the recent unrest — the Revolutionary Guards and its affiliated Basij religious militia."

"Khamenei, the three sources said, was especially concerned with anger in small working-class towns, whose lower-income voters have been a pillar of support for the Islamic Republic."

Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 09:12, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Ok, since no-one has responded, I will start adding this information about 2019–2020 Iranian protests to the article. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 12:12, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 December 2020

The category, Iranian individuals subject to the U.S. Department of the Treasury sanctions should be added to this article since Donald Trump sanctioned him with Executive Order 13876. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 23:58, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

 Done
SSSB (talk) 16:06, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Khamenei's rule

In the first paragraph of the article, it is suggested that Khamenei is the longest ruling leader of Iran in the last century, just after Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. This is wrong. To this date, Khamenei has rule for "38 years, 246 days" (See Wikipedia article: List of current longest-ruling non-royal national leaders) while Mohammad Reza rules for 37 years 4 months 26 days. (16 September 1941 – 11 February 1979) The mistake probably stems from the fact that the source referred to is two years old.

I ask people with editing power to correct this.

Nicxjo (talk) 18:50, 16 June 2020 (UTC) nicxjo

References

I will wish we were allowed to edit this page to add on all the cruel things that he’s done all the innocent people that is murdered people deserve to know the truth about what kind of a monster this man is BMRPRNC (talk) 07:14, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

@Nicxjo: for this to be done you will need to find sources which are external to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a reliable source (WP:CIRCULAR). When you have found an appropriate source, your edit will be processed more efficently if you use {{Edit extended-protected}}. Thank you,
SSSB (talk) 16:10, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 January 2021

please add this image of him in 2021 .... thank you --Hoseina051311 (talk) 17:41, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ali_khamenei_in_January_2021.jpg Hoseina051311 (talk) 17:41, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

 Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:38, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Banning import of COVID-19 vaccines; Twitter removal of antivax comments

• https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20210109-iran-bans-import-of-uk-and-us-covid-19-vaccines-saying-they-re-completely-untrustworthy
• https://www.cbsnews.com/news/twitter-post-iran-supreme-leader-ayatollah-ali-khamenei-account-covid-19-vaccine-conspiracy-theory/

Seems relevant to add but I'm not sure where. --Bangalamania (talk) 21:10, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 January 2021

I have made a new page called 'Mohammad Khamenei', which is the older brother of Ali Khamenei. I want to go to "Relatives" section and add a new brother Mohammad Khamenei. Ali313korosh (talk) 04:04, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

To editor Ali313korosh:  done, and thank you very much! P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 18:50, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Social media section

There needs to be another article on Khamenei's social media activities.

Recently, Twitter has deleted one of Khamenei's accounts due to a "fake" Trump photo ( breitbart.com/middle-east/2021/01/22/irans-ayatollah-khamenei-swears-revenge-on-donald-trump/) [not sure why Wikipedia is banning all Breitbart pages] which is in fact on Khamenei's official Website stating "REVENGE IS DEFINITE". https://english.khamenei.ir/

--2601:C4:C300:1BD0:81F6:C522:EEFF:2B54 (talk) 23:54, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Official website link is https://english.khamenei.ir/news/8298/Revenge-is-definite

--2601:C4:C300:1BD0:81F6:C522:EEFF:2B54 (talk) 00:01, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Salman Rushdie

I cannot edit this page but I feel this is worth including: https://apnews.com/article/86df2730d0a3f25972e2bb3a8c94dd02 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bsylveste (talk • contribs) 07:43, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

he plays tar using one hand!!

Hi. at the section "Literature and art" it says he plays the tar!!! The tar instrument is a string one just like the guitar which is why the player needs two hands to play!! but the problem is here that he only has one functional hand.Biometricxyz (talk) 08:10, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 April 2021

I believe that the first sentence of the article should be changed to include his military work:
from
Sayyid Ali Hosseini Khamenei (Persian: سید علی حسینی خامنه‌ای, pronounced [ʔæˈliː hosejˈniː xɒːmeneˈʔiː] ; born 19 April 1939) is a Twelver Shia Marja' and the second and current supreme leader of Iran, in office since 1989.
to
Sayyid Ali Hosseini Khamenei (Persian: سید علی حسینی خامنه‌ای, pronounced [ʔæˈliː hosejˈniː xɒːmeneˈʔiː] ; born 19 April 1939) is an Iranian political, religious and military leader, and the current supreme leader of Iran, in office since 1989. 45.66.36.51 (talk) 17:20, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:09, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 April 2021

Please correct the Date of birth of the Grand Ayatullah Syed Ali Khamenei because if you will check on (https://english.khamenei.ir/news/2130/bio) this cite shows Imam Khamenei's date of birth mentioned 16th of July instead of 19th of April. I hope you will correct this ASAP. Nihal Mehdi (talk) 04:55, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. That site gives multiple dates for his birthday, so I don't believe it's reliable enough for us to use. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:01, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 April 2021

Sajadtedy (talk) 00:21, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

His grandchildren are in this order of age: 1. Seyyed Mohammad Javad Khamenei - via Mostafa 2. Mohommad Hossein Mohammadi Golpaigani - via Boshra 3. Seyyed Ali Khamenei - via Masoud 4. Mohsen Mohammadi Golpaigani - via Boshra 5. Seyyedeh Atiyyeh Khamenei - via Hoda 6. Seyyed Mohammad Bagher Khamenei - via Masoud 7. Zeinab Mohammadi Golpaigani - via Boshra

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:31, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

This article by Rajab is a person of nine positions

The following text, which is in the introduction of the article, should be removed and placed in the article Supreme_Leader_of_Iran

"As Supreme Leader, Khamenei is the most powerful political authority in the Islamic Republic.[25][26] He is the head of state of Iran, the commander-in-chief of its armed forces, and can issue decrees and make the final decisions on the main policies of the government in many fields such as economy, the environment, foreign policy, and national planning in Iran.[27][28][29][30][31][32] Khamenei has either direct or indirect control over the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government, as well as the military and media, according to Karim Sadjadpour.[18] All candidates for the Assembly of Experts, the Presidency and the Majlis (Parliament) are vetted by the Guardian Council, whose members are selected directly or indirectly by the Supreme Leader of Iran.[33] There have been also instances when the Guardian Council reversed its ban on particular people after being ordered to do so by Khamenei.[34]" --مهدی بهرامی مطلق (talk) 22:07, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 July 2021

In the biographical box on the right, the date that Ali Khamenei took office as President of Iran should be changed from October 9, 1981 to October 13, 1981. I found an article in the New York Times archives which states he took office as President on October 13, 1981. MLatt (talk) 02:39, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:55, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 September 2021

add a link for Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani in the box to the side (infobox I think it's called). ― TaltosKieronTalk 17:18, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

 Done — LauritzT (talk) 19:30, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 December 2021

Undo part of revision 1058582346 by Lovewhatyoudo. Revert "Khamenei won the 1989 Iranian Supreme Leader election on 4 June 1989" to "The Assembly of Experts elected Khamenei as the next Supreme Leader on 4 June 1989". Previous terminology was more appropriate due to the particularity of the Iranian Supreme Leader election which is not like other Iranian or Western elections. Hosortyr (talk) 21:53, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

 Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:56, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 March 2022

Move his statements about homosexuality in Women's rights to their own section. An anonymous username, not my real name (talk) 22:51, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

 Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:09, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 June 2022

{{Undue weight}}

Sources 18 and 33 are about the article Supreme Leader of Iran, not Ali Khamenei himself, So they should be removed from here and transferred to the relevant article. مهدی بهرامی مطلق (talk) 20:26, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: It is expected that there will be details about a position in an article about someone who fills that position. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:38, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish: According to which Wikipedia policy is such an expectation from a person's article? And second, in footnote 18, he mentions Ali Khamenei as the leader, not himself, but here he is mentioned as a person, and this is considered a source forgery.

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is Iran’s most powerful official. As supreme leader, he has either direct or indirect control over the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government, as well as the military and media.[1] --مهدی بهرامی مطلق (talk) 14:14, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

مهدی بهرامی مطلق: If I am getting your point correctly, The first line of the 2nd paragraph directly states as such: "As Supreme Leader, Khamenei is the most powerful political authority in the Islamic Republic." --Mhhossein ^talk 14:59, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

@Mhhossein No, but two lines lower.

Wiki text : Khamenei has either direct or indirect control over the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government, as well as the military and media, according to Karim Sadjadpour.[18]

The first line Original source text : Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is Iran’s most powerful official. As supreme leader, he has either direct or indirect control over the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government, as well as the military and media.[2] --مهدی بهرامی مطلق (talk) 19:06, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

@مهدی بهرامی مطلق: Ah I see. The text is edited now. Thanks for your time and interest. --Mhhossein ^talk 02:28, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 September 2022

I think we should add the current protests the Mahsa Amini protests under the excerpt of his that states protests against his regime. Nicy2winks (talk) 02:38, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Birthdate

I think we should move the fake DOB used by Ali from the infobox to the early life section. It is somewhat confusing to readers. Dancingtudorqueen (talk) 13:12, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Blurring of the lines between ethnicity/genes and religion/state-opposition?

The section on antisemitism, does not seem to contain anything specific to ethnicity, it seems to contain multiple references to religion and a state's existence, but not race/ethnicity, antisemitism, as contrasted with anti-Judaism, or anti-Jehovaism (all three) perhaps, refers to the Semitic ethnicity group. Wikipedia should be professional-enough to not allow the blurring for whichever perceived sensitivity's sake.

Myths about origins, do not make non-Semitic jews into Semitic, nor non-Jewish Semitics, into Jews. Blurring the lines, is exactly what happened before the war, when the Nazis NARRATIVE, went off the rails and they stopped targeting capitalism itself/patriarchy/Emipre, and hijacked the socialist-INTENT/discontent. Respecting the difference, so arguments do not again-become blurred, is our RESPONSIBILITY. 120.21.167.200 (talk) 10:06, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

LGBT civil rights

Please change the section title Ali Khamenei#Homosexuality from "homosexuality" to "LGBT civil rights." The "homosexuality" title sounds from the last century and the term is usually used by opponents of LGBT civil right nowadays. 24.125.106.131 (talk) 01:07, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: 1) As can be derived from the initialism LGBT (i.e. "lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender"), LGBT rights comprise more than merely the rights of homosexuals. 2) The term "homosexual" is the formally correct one and is unassociated with any specific time period (i.e. "the last century"). 3) The assertion that the term is usually used by opponents of the LGBT rights movement nowadays is entirely unfounded. Colonestarrice (talk) 10:41, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

You are technically correct, but your method of narrowing to a very small group is wrong. Your approach is akin to labeling the racial civil rights movement in the 1960s in the US the movement for "black rights" since it wasn't broad for East Asians or Hispanics. 24.125.106.131 (talk) 18:29, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: your request has been made irrelevant by this edit by Iskandar323. small jars tc 20:18, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 March 2023

In the page about the supreme leader of Iran Ali Khameini, there is a mention about Hasan Rouhani stating that he is the current president of Iran. This is false. The current President of Iran is Ebrahim Raisi. Rouhani was the President till 2021. Please correct this error. Thank you. 49.207.232.216 (talk) 09:42, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

 Done a!rado🦈 (C✙T) 13:38, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Duration of power vs Pahlavi

the article says « the second-longest serving Iranian leader of the last century, after Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi » based on a quote from a 2010 source. This is not true anymore since Khamenei is still the leader ( +43 years) while reza Pahlavi reign lasted 38 years.

please correct this small error. Or edit and remove the full sentence as it doesn’t add anything to write in this article that over an arbitrary period of time, someone else had a longer reign. 94.109.153.214 (talk) 12:41, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Why is Wikipedia so slow?

what’s the point of allowing only a few people to abuse their edit power if you’re not even correcting obvious mistakes? 94.109.3.205 (talk) 19:31, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Khamenei has only been supreme leader for 34 years. The aforementioned sentence clearly states leader and, as the Iranian president is effectively appointed by the supreme leader, his tenure in that position does not count. – Isochrone (T) 12:26, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 June 2023

In the 2023 protests In Iran, Khamenei was also called by the name Zahak (Azhi Dahhak in Avesta) Phoenix0758 (talk) 20:31, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Actualcpscm (talk) 09:59, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Extradition from Sweden for trial in Islamic court

Please add the following:

In response to the 2023 Quran burnings in Sweden, Khamenei called for the extradition of the perp to a country with Islamic law for trial, "The duty of that (Swedish) government is to hand over the perpetrator to the judicial systems of Islamic countries." Iran's Khamenei says Sweden in 'battle-array' over Koran desecrations | Reuters 2601:C4:CA02:2BE0:9912:D517:31CB:D57F (talk) 16:01, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Hum tashad mai Ali un waliullah kyun ni per sakty 58.65.217.26 (talk) 14:11, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 January 2024

In the "suceeded by" section, 'Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani' is not linked. Should link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akbar_Rafsanjan%C4%AB Juraj Ahel (talk) 17:08, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: That's because he has already been linked earlier in the infobox. See MOS:DUPLINK for more information. Liu1126 (talk) 12:55, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

دولت افغانستان در فرهنگ انسانیت زیر صفر است و تا فرهنگ افغانستان کامل نشود به هیچ وجه به رسمیت شناخته نمی شوند و در هیچ کشوری حق تجارت و دادخواست نخواهد داشت چون طالبان انسانهای افغانی را مثل گوسفند سراخی می کنند وفرق انسان گوسفند را نمی دانند باید در تحریم اقتصادی و اجتماعی و سیاسی و فرهنگی و تجارت الکترونیک و تجارت نفت وخرید و فروش ارز باقی بمانند تا زمانی که تمام طالبان در تمام شهرهای بزرگ افغانستان فرهنگ و قانون اساسی جهانی را یاد بگیرنددرتحریم خواهند ماند. حکم پادشاه ایران برجهان دکتررحمت الله نادعلی 5.250.6.79 (talk) 10:33, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 February 2024

This man is a proven murderer, this needs to be added 2A00:23C8:5F3A:5501:51D4:A488:98F:4ADF (talk) 21:06, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Sincerely, Guessitsavis (she/they) (Talk) 00:40, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

fatwa

there is no source cited that Khamenei issued a Fatwa against nuclear weapons. reputable sources indicate that the existence of an actual fatwa against nuclear weapons cannot be found among the Ayatollah's published works and its existence is doubtful. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2013/11/27/did-irans-supreme-leader-issue-a-fatwa-against-the-development-of-nuclear-weapons/ Feds568 (talk) 21:36, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

This is the original Fatwa:

https://farsi.khamenei.ir/message-content?id=9171

Here you can find a discussion on the basis of this Fatwa:

https://farsi.khamenei.ir/others-dialog?id=47431 2601:41:4300:76C0:187E:49D:6BFC:A221 (talk) 04:35, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Why is the certificate birth date shown in the infobox?

Is that something that's usually done on Wikipedia? It seems odd to show both the actual birth date and the certificate date. RisingTzar (talk) 20:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 April 2024

Claggy (talk) 17:42, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: no reason was given for what looks like a proposed addition of an irrelevant template. M.Bitton (talk) 21:45, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 May 2024

Please add this line to this page: Iran's Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei has claimed that foreigners have hired women to remove their mandatory hijab. Source: https://iranwire.com/en/women/127053-foreigners-hired-iranian-women-to-shed-hijab-says-khamenei/

}} Paulsouthkensington1 (talk) 08:06, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Please guide me

I doubt Khamenei. He supports the Palestinian people, but they don't say good things about him in Iran. Please guide me 5.212.252.229 (talk) 07:41, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 May 2024

Izzyxibx (talk) 16:18, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

The Iranian president passed away suddenly due to a helicopter crash on May 19th, 2024

 Not done: Khamenei is supreme leader, not president. Ebrahim Raisi is the one who died. Jamedeus (talk) 17:31, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

update it he just died

he just died guys 154.239.228.219 (talk) 11:32, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

heres the link for proof: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpwwql21747o 209.94.176.249 (talk) 12:35, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

This is about Ebrahim Raisi, not Khamenei. Jamedeus (talk) 17:33, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Ayatollah Khameini is dead

It’s confirmed both he died in a helicopter crash coming back from Azerbaijan 73.3.195.160 (talk) 22:49, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

That was ebrahim raisi Yolia21 (talk) 22:19, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 May 2024

Remove Ebrahim Raisi from president list as he is deceased Yolia21 (talk) 22:19, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: The list contains all former presidents. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 06:35, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Qurbani

Mustahab qurbani kis kis par jaiz hai 103.155.72.81 (talk) 12:44, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

"Der nechste Grosse Krieg " , So gefärlich ist der konflikt zwischen Iran und Israel ..." ( "der Spiege" Nr. 17 , 2024 )Hakim Benla (talk) 15:00, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 June 2024

Subslo (talk) 21:21, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

August 6th 1989 for the supreme leader start date is incorrect

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lightoil (talk) 22:32, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

شرعی مسئلہ

کسی چیز کو پاک کرنے کا طریقہ 103.137.24.141 (talk) 07:03, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 June 2024

Change the Chief Justice of Iran from “Ebrahim Raisi” to “ Gholam-Hossein Mohseni-Eje'i”, appointed on July 1st, 2021. Ali1079 (talk) 11:11, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Charliehdb (talk) 14:07, 28 June 2024 (UTC)