Talk:Camper and Nicholsons

comments

There is my stalled rewrite of the previous article at Draft:Camper_&_Nicholsons, someone might one to see what could be brought in. GraemeLeggett (talk) 10:48, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

There is much good information in that article, and if I had found it I would probably not have started this one. I will endeavour to bring it up to scratch. Paladyn-john (talk) 12:37, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

What is needed is a lot of sourcing for the content. GraemeLeggett (talk) 16:50, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

GraemeLeggett, Paladyn-john, I'm truly sorry that I didn't see this exchange at the time – it would have saved time and effort for you both if I had. I'm afraid the content at Draft:Camper & Nicholsons was not usable – it had been copied there (by an editor paid by the company) from the former article Camper and Nicholsons, which in turn contained copyvios going back to June 2007 from one of our most prolific violators of copyright policy, and was deleted for that reason in January 2020. Nothing written by that editor can be trusted to be copyvio-free, so I'm afraid I've also presumptively deleted that other draft. I've added all the references from a recent version of this page to the current revision (as hidden text in the References section). If you'd like me to, I can also add the refs from the original article (there are about 25 of them). My apologies to you both for this setback. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:54, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, I understand the situation better - my initial look at this was prompted by the List of Motoryachts by length, (Superyachts being topical), where I noticed the Builder of HNoMY Norge was a redlinked Camper and Nicholson, and I was puzzled as they are fairly famous in the boating world.

For disclosure I should state that my late Uncle was employed by Camper and Nicholson as a yacht designer and later manager, but I do not expect him to be mentioned in the article. I have sailed on several Nicholson yachts, never had a connection with the company, but know of them also in connection with Lifeboats and small naval vessels.

I will update an article layout, covering company history briefly, but primary focussed on the boats. Many of the famous examples have their own articles, but it would be good to have a section for some of designs, such as the Nicholson 33, in the same way that similar yachts, e.g. Ericson 36 (picked randomly as another Ron Holland design), are covered. Paladyn-john (talk) 11:26, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Paladyn-john, I'm sure the company is notable, it is or was pretty much a household name (without the final 's', as far as I recall). Unfortunately the article history has been very troubled, with generous amounts of both undisclosed paid editing and copyright violation. It would be great if you felt like doing a bit of work on it. My offer to provide the references from the deleted Camper and Nicholsons article still stands, just say the word; I'm also happy to offer help or advice if you should ever want any (you can get my attention by writing or copying {{u|Justlettersandnumbers}}, just as you see it here, into your message). Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:41, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage.) Prior content in this draft duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://web.archive.org/web/20060507064255/http://www.classicboat.it/history/index.php?idTblCollezione=11 and elsewhere. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:54, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

The present article is essentially a full rewrite from the article of 13th March 2022, drawn from a range of external sources. Paladyn-john (talk) 17:27, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Reading like an advertisement

Although there is a Yacht Broker with the name Camper and Nicholsons, the focus of the article, and the target of around 50 Wikipedia redlinks is the boat builders who ceased operation in 2005. Paladyn-john (talk) 17:45, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Motorised Submersible Canoe

The main article on Motorised Submersible Canoe (a.k.a. Sleeping Beauty or SB) makes no mention of Camper and Nicolsons, and neither do many of the other references, however the book Camper & Nicholsons - Two Centuries of Yacht Building, has a reference to the Motorised Submersible Canoe being built at the Gosport Yard, on page 128. This reference gives the designer as Jack Laurent Giles, to specifications by 'Blondie' Hasler, and says it was used by the SOE in a raid on Japanese Shipping in Singapore in 1944, in which all the participants were killed or captured, which is presumably Operation Rimau.

It is possible (from a blog post at https://juleswings.wordpress.com/2020/08/30/army-museum-of-western-australia-update/) that the Army Museum of Western Australia has a SB, and information connecting it to Camper and Nicolsons. As, according to https://www.museum.wa.gov.au/maritime-archaeology-db/maritime-reports/report-background-and-maritime-archaeological-survey-motorised-submersible-canoe-ms (page 8 of PDF) there were 218 MSC's delivered to the Admiralty, it is possible that some of the production was as Gosport as they were producing other boats, such as the MK III Cockle, for covert operations. Paladyn-john (talk) 12:31, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

References

Splitting into Multiple articles ?

GRP yachts

Possibly there should be an article for each GRP yacht design as per Ericson 36 which would allow the information to be presented neatly using the Infobox sailboat specifications

Motor Yachts and Sailing Yachts into separate lists articles

Possible article on List of Motor Yachts built by Camper and Nicholson, and another on Sailing Yachts built by Camper and Nicholson, similar to List of ships built at John I. Thornycroft & Company, Chiswick

Removal of insufficient citations

The article now has over 100 citations, largely from Ian Dear's book, but also from The Times, The National Maritime Museum, The Royal Yacht Squadron and a range of yachting magazines, local newspapers etc. I am removing the more-citations-needed template. Paladyn-john (talk) 10:41, 11 August 2022 (UTC) In addition, where information has come from, for example a yachting magazine, it has often been checked against several, and only one referenced.Paladyn-john (talk) 10:48, 11 August 2022 (UTC)