Talk:Captain-class frigate

Title wrong for this article.

Although commonly referred to as "Captain class frigate" the correct name for this class as given by the Admiralty is "Captains class frigate", (note the plural Captain).

Thefrood 02:23, 28 January 2007 (UTC) Thefrood 02:20, January 28 2007 (UTC)

Do you have a source on this? I hate to be sceptical, but Janes, Conways, Lenton and Whitley all refer to these as Captain class, in the singular. I can't think of ever seeing it written in the plural, or for any other class name ever being rendered as such. Emoscopes ^Talk 10:28, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I note also that the reference provided on the page gives it as "Captain". Emoscopes ^Talk 10:30, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

If you are referring to the title of the book by late Donald Collingwood, perhaps you should try and get a copy from your local library as throughout the text of the book he uses "Captains" as the plural of the class, additionally when I asked Donald Collingwood about the form of pluralisation of the book title I was given to understand that was on the advice/instance of the publisher. Thefrood 13:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not disputing this, what I'm saying is that it's going to need some hard referencing to go against the grain of the respected literature on the subject. I don't have a copy of that book in front of me, so I cannot dispute that either, but I would be interested to know if he refers to them as the Captains or the the Captains class, as the former instance is fairly widespread in a lot of books. As it stands just now, there is nothing to substantiate calling them "Captains class" over "Captain". Emoscopes ^Talk 13:42, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

As far as I can tell it is in the form of the Captains. I would also cite the the web-site of the Captain Class Frigates Association but as most of that was written by my late grandfather I cannot be considered impartial when citing it as an impartial source. Still, I'll do some digging and see what I can come come up with. Thefrood 14:02, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

To me, this would be normal; Tribal class destroyers are "the Tribals", Flower class corvettes are "the Flowers". What to my eye, and in my reading experience, seems odd is to use the plural form when it is being used as a noun adjunct - I cannot think of an any example of this, such as a "Flowers class", "Tribes class", etc. Emoscopes ^Talk 16:13, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Yet I've been assured that it is so by those that served upon the Captains, there is much that was odd about this class so I'll ask a few question and do a bit of digging over the next few weeks to see if I can come up with anything definitive. Thefrood 17:27, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Goodo. I'm perfectly willing to accept this is an anomaly, but if is a familiar name used by the companies and not the official title, then the article should be named "Captain class", with reference to "Captains class" being a popular alternative if there is a citation for this. Emoscopes ^Talk 11:04, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Not sure if this has any bearing on the subject but it appears that the Royal Navy had already had a Captain-class in 1870, see HMS Captain (1869) for details - I've already put in a request for a citation on that page. Thefrood 15:35, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Correct use of the English language: Singular=Captain class frigate. Plural, S the goes on Captain not Frigate.--77.99.154.28 (talk) 12:20, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Photographs

Has anybody any Public domain pictures of any Captains? Thefrood 15:37, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

There's likely to be some as these were US-built ships. It is my understanding that works of Federal employees, i.e. soldiers, sailors, airmen are PD. Emoscopes ^Talk 18:28, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

The only two that I have found that are 100% PD under the federal thingy are poor quality pictures of launches (see my user page for more on these two photos). I've found a number of pictures that have been uploaded to web-sites and/or published in books that are credited to the collection of former UK sailors and which would (as I understand the law) be public domain in he UK under the 50 year rule providing they have not renewed their copyright - I don't know of anyway to check for such a renewal short of tracing these individuals (or the executors of their estates). Thefrood 18:44, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Infobox

A nice touch, but I'm not sure about having a picture of a DE in it, The USS Evarts is NOT a Captain class and as such in my opinion does not belong in the infobox. I originally had this picture placed in in the Evarts section as a close approximation of an Evarts Captain class. Anybody got an opinion on removing it from the info box? Thefrood 19:28, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd stick with keeping it for illustrative purposes, but alter the caption to highlight this. Until, that is, we come up with a PD image of Captain in RN service that we can use. Emoscopes ^Talk 19:37, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

That works for me. Thefrood 22:53, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Infoxbox: Out of service date

I've changed the out of service date in the Infobox to 1956. HMS Hotham K583 (DE 574) was returned to the US Navy on March 13, 1956 - she got stuck in Singapore as a floating power station, there was a big who-ha when the Royal Navy needed to sail her back from Singapore as they had no engineering staff that knew how the Buckley's novel power plant worked. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thefrood (talk • contribs) 02:37:49, August 19, 2007 (UTC).

Assessment

This article is definitely much improved, but it will need inline citations to move up to B-Class and beyond. Ask if you have any questions! Carom 02:52, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Lewis Gun?

In Collingwood's The Captain Class Frigates in the Second World War on page 110 in discussing a combat with E-boats at point blank range mentions "the Lewis gun on the bridge" being in use to emphasise the just how short range the combat had become. Question: Does anybody know how standard the Lewis gun fitting was, the passage of book that mentions this is in relation to HMS Trollope which had been fitted out as a coastal forces command frigate - was the Lewis gun unique to these or more generally fitted across the Captain fleet? --Thefrood 13:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Last ship sunk?

In the section "Captain class frigates sunk or seriously damaged", I believe the statement that HMS Goodall was "the last British ship sunk in the European theatre of World War Two" is incorrect. The last British vessel sunk during WWII was actually the SS Avondale Park, which was torpedoed at approximately 2230hrs on the 7th May 1945, off the Firth of Forth, by U-2336 under the command of Kapitänleutnant Emil Klusmeier. Perhaps what was meant in the article, was that HMS Goodall was the last British WARSHIP, not ship. However, I cannot find any further references for warships sunk.

Refs: http://uboat.net/boats/u2336.htm http://uboat.net/types/xxiii.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.37.92 (talk) 20:55, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Good spot - Page 1 of Vic Ould's book Last but not least states that HMS Goodall has "the melancholy distinction of being the last ship of the Royal Navy to have been sunk in the European theatre of war during WWII".--Thefrood 06:23, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Spelling

There seem to be some spelling inconsistencies in the names of ships. Examples: Burges vs Burgess, Domett vs Dommett, Bazely vs Bazeley. I have no primary sources as reference material, so I cannot research this. Perhaps someone else can?

Have standardised them on what seems to be right.--Toddy1 (talk) 11:06, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Turbo-electric, innovative?

"This all-electric drivetrain was considered particularly innovative at the time"

Really? Turbo-electric propulsion was old tech for US shipbuilders, having been used in New Mexico (1917) and the Tennessee (1919), Colorado (1921) and canceled South Dakota class battleships, as well as the Lexington class aircraft carriers (1927) and, in the WW2 era, in hundreds of troopships and tankers.