Template:Did you know nominations/Lionel de Jersey Harvard
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by ceradon (talk • contribs) 23:31, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
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Lionel de Jersey Harvard[edit]
... that after class poet Lt. Lionel de Jersey Harvard (pictured) died in World War I, a fellow officer wrote, "If Harvard College made him what he was, I want my sons to go there that it may do the same for them"?
Created by EEng (talk). Self nominated at 09:42, 19 January 2015 (UTC).
New enough. Long enough. QPQ done. NPOV. Photo is ok for front page. Spot checking with dup detector found no close paraphrasing issues, copyright violations or plagiarism. All paras cited. Hook cited. Hook is interesting. But, I don't see the need to link World War I, and I think "class poet" should perhaps be "Class Poet" - maybe this is a common term in the US, but in the UK it suggests that his poetry was to do with issues of social class. The hook source is apparently open access, but I can't open it - is that because I'm in the UK? Edwardx (talk) 23:02, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick review. It's really a kind of tragic fairy tale, isn't it? I had thought a "class poet" would make his death sound more romantic, but now I think it's just distracting, so let's drop it:
- ALT1 ... that after Lt. Lionel de Jersey Harvard (pictured) died in World War I, a fellow officer wrote, "If Harvard College made him what he was, I want my sons to go there that it may do the same for them"?
The hook source is [1]. It's quite possible you can't open it because of your location. What -- you don't trust me???? 23:11, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
- I liked the "class poet" idea too, and I like the sad yet somehow beautiful story of his life. The revised hook works fine. However, as I cannot access the source, someone else will need to sign off on that aspect. Of course, I trust you, but I can't be sure that all of the people who might need me to have trusted you will trust that process. Edwardx (talk) 11:53, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
- Maybe we could collaborate on a screenplay. Of course, we'd have to jazz it up a bit... while at Harvard he falls in love with a blonde floozy -- the hooker with a heart of gold. An amusing scene of her having to hide under the bed when there's a suprise visit from Professor X.... What will Lionel choose? The plain life of the medical missionary he had envisioned? Or the more exciting world his eyes are now opened to?
- Can someone in the US follow the link above (it's the same as in the article) and verify the quote? EEng (talk) 12:49, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
- Last-minute request: Can we hold this until this year's Harvard commencement, which is May 28, 2015? I know that's a little far in the future, but it would be a nice touch, as it's 100 years since his graduation. EEng (talk) 00:11, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
- Very sorry, but no. Six weeks is the maximum hold, so nearly three times that is way too far away. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:07, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
- The pointless DYK obsession with "newness" strikes again. What I should have done, of course, is to have just kept the article offline and brought it out three months from now, so it would be "new" at the right moment. That would serve WP's goal of capturing humanity's knowledge better than my just writing the article as soon as I realized there was a place for it. EEng (talk) 10:08, 28 January 2015 (UTC) Not mad at you, BMS -- you're just the bearer of bad news.
- I like ALT1, really I do, but I'm wondering why no one mentioned:
- ALT2:
... that a young Englishman (pictured) was the only Harvard to attend Harvard?Yoninah (talk) 22:58, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
- In fact something like ALT2 is what I originally had in mind, but while it is has that quirkiness we prize so much at DYK, ALT1 is more about him, and it's a wonderful thing to say about a dead young soldier, don't you think? I also considered bolting the two ideas together -- 'that after the only Harvard to attend Harvard died in World War I, a fellow officer wrote, "If Harvard College made him what he was, I want my sons to go there that it may do the same for them"?' -- but that's too confusing with all the Harvard attended Harvard and Harvard made him Harvard Harvard .... My inclination is to stick with ALT1, but I'd like to hear what you think given what I've just said. EEng (talk) 23:37, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
- I agree with your reasoning. The only reservation I have about ALT1 is the part about him dying in World War I, which awkwardly plays off the end of the quote, "that it may do the same for them". Yoninah (talk) 23:55, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
- Hmmm. I see your point, but I think most readers will realize that Harvard College doesn't kill people at least, not usually. Can we stay with ALT1? EEng (talk) 00:27, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
OK. But I suggest using the full-uniform image instead. If you want, you could crop it at the waist. Yoninah (talk) 00:50, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- Wait, don't go yet. Why the in-uniform image? I'd so much rather show his face. (Sorry to be so fussy.) EEng (talk) 00:56, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- Because he looks distinguished enough to want to emulate. The cropped image above looks like an Eton schoolboy. Yoninah (talk) 01:00, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- Well put, though I actually wanted to emphasize the point that he was something of a boy when he was killed -- did you see the picture of his brother? He was only twenty, for God's sake! Anyway, I've substituted the cropped standing image, per your suggestion. EEng (talk) 12:25, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- Because he looks distinguished enough to want to emulate. The cropped image above looks like an Eton schoolboy. Yoninah (talk) 01:00, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- Wait, don't go yet. Why the in-uniform image? I'd so much rather show his face. (Sorry to be so fussy.) EEng (talk) 00:56, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- Hmmm. I see your point, but I think most readers will realize that Harvard College doesn't kill people at least, not usually. Can we stay with ALT1? EEng (talk) 00:27, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- I agree with your reasoning. The only reservation I have about ALT1 is the part about him dying in World War I, which awkwardly plays off the end of the quote, "that it may do the same for them". Yoninah (talk) 23:55, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
- In fact something like ALT2 is what I originally had in mind, but while it is has that quirkiness we prize so much at DYK, ALT1 is more about him, and it's a wonderful thing to say about a dead young soldier, don't you think? I also considered bolting the two ideas together -- 'that after the only Harvard to attend Harvard died in World War I, a fellow officer wrote, "If Harvard College made him what he was, I want my sons to go there that it may do the same for them"?' -- but that's too confusing with all the Harvard attended Harvard and Harvard made him Harvard Harvard .... My inclination is to stick with ALT1, but I'd like to hear what you think given what I've just said. EEng (talk) 23:37, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
- The pointless DYK obsession with "newness" strikes again. What I should have done, of course, is to have just kept the article offline and brought it out three months from now, so it would be "new" at the right moment. That would serve WP's goal of capturing humanity's knowledge better than my just writing the article as soon as I realized there was a place for it. EEng (talk) 10:08, 28 January 2015 (UTC) Not mad at you, BMS -- you're just the bearer of bad news.