User talk:Hybernator/Archive-02

Lan Sang[edit]

Did Burmese control Lan Sang together with Siam? Soewinhan (talk) 07:11, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Lan Xang was the first target of Maha Thihapate's northern invasion force of 1765. But the gains were short-lived just like the gains in Siam after Ayutthaya's fall. After the Burmese armies withdrew to fight the Chinese in late 1767/early 1768, Siamese resistance filled the power gap. Hybernator (talk) 01:24, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Replaceable fair use File:EKZ-in-evening-dress.jpg[edit]

Thanks for uploading File:EKZ-in-evening-dress.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information or which could be adequately covered with text alone. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

Go to the media description page and edit it to add {{di-replaceable fair use disputed}}, without deleting the original replaceable fair use template.
On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

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Also File:EKZ-movie.jpg. —Bkell (talk) 05:28, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't move pages by cut-and-paste[edit]

Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you recently tried to give Chinese people in Burma a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into another page with a different name. This is known as a "cut and paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is needed for attribution and various other purposes. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page. This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Wikipedia:Cut and paste move repair holding pen. Thank you. cab (call) 05:16, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Move controversy[edit]

No, Wikipedia rule "be blood" doesn't require to discuss first before making a change. If you think the move is not appropriate, you may discuss at talk page. Thanks.
As noted above, in case if you need to revert my move, you should try to contact an administrator to delete the redirect so that we can preserve the edit history which may lost in copy and paste move. Soewinhan (talk) 10:06, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Replaceable fair use File:SE-Asia-1220.jpg[edit]

Thanks for uploading File:SE-Asia-1220.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information or which could be adequately covered with text alone. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

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On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

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If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per our non-free content policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. —Bkell (talk) 15:00, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also the following images:

—Bkell (talk) 15:27, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly unfree File:Yangon-1824.jpg[edit]

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Yangon-1824.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. —Bkell (talk) 15:10, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also File:Yangon-1897.jpg. —Bkell (talk) 15:11, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

File permission problem with File:SE-Asia-1340.jpg[edit]

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If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have provided evidence that their copyright owners have agreed to license their works under the tags you supplied, too. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Files lacking evidence of permission may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. —Bkell (talk) 15:23, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also the following images:

—Bkell (talk) 15:46, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note about non-free maps[edit]

Hi, Hybernator. Non-free maps (such as File:SE-Asia-1540.jpg) are usually not acceptable on Wikipedia, because they are potentially replaceable by freely licensed maps (see WP:NFCC#1). There is a group of Wikipedia editors who are interested in creating maps for Wikipedia articles; see Wikipedia:WikiProject Maps for more information. Perhaps someone there would be willing to create freely licensed maps showing the information in the non-free maps you have uploaded. —Bkell (talk) 01:00, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I need a favor[edit]

Hello Hybernator, I'm writing to see if you can help me with something. It turns out that I want to add this article to the list of requested articles of Wikipedia in Burmese and I think that various speakers of that language may interest the information provided by this article, but the problem is that I no know the Burmese language and have not found a translator for that language and I wonder if you would do that for me. From already thank you very much and sorry for the inconvenience.--190.30.202.173 (talk) 07:01, 28 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

May Sweet[edit]

Please refrain from paddling politically motivated messages on behalf of irrawaddy publishing group on the above article. If you insist on including politically motivated messages in the article, i shall be forced to report you to Wikipedia. Okkar (talk) 04:09, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's you who is trying to push your viewpoints. I've provided a citation from a reputable source that the site was hacked. If you don't like it, by all means, report it. Let's see where it takes. Hybernator (talk) 12:41, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have just reported you. I citied the video message of May Sweet, it cannot be more reputable than any other source. Okkar (talk) 14:22, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on May Sweet. Users are expected to collaborate with others and avoid editing disruptively.

In particular, the three-revert rule states that:

Making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period is almost always grounds for an immediate block.
Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you continue to edit war, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. JamesBWatson (talk) 14:38, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of Non-free Images from User:Hybernator/test and User:Hybernator/test2[edit]

Hello, Hybernator. This is a note to let you know that I've taken down some images from your subpages /test and /test2. Under the non-free content criteria, non-free/fair use images are not allowed to be used outside of articles, even in article drafts. Sorry for the inconvenience! Fletch the Mighty (talk) 16:17, 17 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Really sorry, and...[edit]

Sorry Hybernator, I tried to help you in keeping May Sweet article neutral and reflects the reality about what has happened. But, I may have complicated the issue. User:Okkar, who accused us of vandalism, still unsatisfied, reported us as sockpuppets. But never fears, Checkuser will find the right thing.

I was clumsy and complicated the issue by wrongly clicking and asking for help at the talkpage of Fletch the Mighty. I was actually asking for your help to check Prehistory of Burma article whether it follows the mainstream viewpoint or not.

Sorry for everything I have done. I will take care in the future.

See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Hybernator Soewinhan (talk) 05:24, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DYK nomination of Konbaung-Hanthawaddy War[edit]

Hello! Your submission of Konbaung-Hanthawaddy War at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 14:45, 24 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Konbaung-Hanthawaddy War[edit]

On 25 March 2011, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Konbaung-Hanthawaddy War, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Konbaung-Hanthawaddy War was the last of several wars between the Burmese-speaking Upper Burma and the Mon-speaking Lower Burma, ending the Mon people's centuries-long dominance of Lower Burma? You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

—HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:06, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DYK submission[edit]

Hello! Your submission of Alaungpaya at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! --Doug Coldwell ^talk 14:16, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Did you know#DYK rules --Doug Coldwell ^talk 14:39, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'll approve length as alright.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 15:03, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Can you help me on the rule for 5 day? Then I'll approve. Now I see 17 days.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 19:12, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You are good to go on your DYK.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 20:05, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Alaungpaya[edit]

On 23 April 2011, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Alaungpaya, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Alaungpaya was a village headman who founded the Konbaung Dynasty of Burma, and unified the country for the third time in its history? You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 06:04, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Ko Aye Aung move[edit]

Hi Hybernator,

I wanted to ask you quickly about the rationale for the move of Ko Aye Aung to Aye Aung. I understand the value of stripping honorifics on the face of it, but my understanding of WP:UCN is that the most common form of the name is the one the page gets filed under, as with U Nu, U Gambira, or U Thant, for example. The sources I found appeared to use Ko Aye Aung consistently--I've actually never seen his name written as just "Aye Aung." Is it okay with you if I move it back, or do you see another policy as taking precedence here? Thanks for the guidance! -- Khazar (talk) 22:47, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And by the way, if you have a moment as a more experienced editor of WP:Burma, could you glance at Nilar Thein, Su Su Nway, and/or Htay Kywe? I've been on a tear of starting articles about Amnesty-named political prisoners but I'm not sure how well I've been integrating them into the rest of Wikipedia's Burma coverage so far. -- Khazar (talk) 22:51, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thanks for your contributions to Burma/Burmese-related articles. Please see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Burmese). U Thant, U Nu, etc. are exceptions. So are ethnic names like Sai Mauk Kham. In general, a Burmese name with more than one word should not have an honorific in its Wiki article name. Hope this helps. Hybernator (talk) 23:05, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, that is a help--I've been looking for a page like this. And thanks for adding the Burmese name spellings on other pages, too.

I'm still not sure about the Ko Aye Aung move under these guidelines, though. The rule I'm looking at is "If a Burmese person's name consists of a single short word, or their name is most commonly written with the honorific, you may leave the honorific in the title." As I mentioned, I don't recall finding any sources for Ko Aye Aung without the honorific--Amnesty, AAPPB, and Irrawaddy all wrote his name exclusively with the "Ko" (which I don't believe they do for fellow prisoners of comparable social status). Not a big deal either way, but I feel like it's become recognizably part of his name for Eng-lang readers, much like Ko Jimmy. Unless we turn up a Eng-lang source that refers to him as Aye Aung, would it be all right if I moved it back to the standard usage? -- Khazar (talk) 00:21, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. To me, per the guideline (full disclosure: I was one of the contributors to the policy), it should be Aye Aung. If you feel the guideline should be adjusted, let's have a discussion at the talk page.

Here's a brief explanation: A Burmese person could have multiple honorifics, and a person's name could easily be reported in many ways. I'm especially concerned about using non-formal honorifics like "Ko" or "Ma" (as opposed to "U", "Daw") in the article title. In this case, by using the term "Ko", the speaker is assuming that Aye Aung is about his/her age. To another, he may be "U Aye Aung", yet to another "Maung Aye Aung". You WILL see Aye Aung's name reported as U Aye Aung by Burmese writers in the next few years as he ages. This fluidity will make non-Burmese more confused.

With the guideline, we've tried to make an exception to the general Wiki guideline of not having any honorifics. I feel adding non-standard ones like Ko and Ma would simply make the exception pointless. It's like opening Pandora's box. We'd be discarding the general Wiki guidelines altogether. We can easily address the question of English language readers used to seeing Ko Aye Aung by adding the name Ko in the lead. I think people will understand.

As a side note, IMO, this type of confusion arises because most reporters/writers who report on Burmese affairs don't understand Western/Burmese cultures well. Most writers of Burmese cultural origin tend to add an honorific to a name, almost reflexively, and aren't familiar with Western "style" rules. By the same token, a lot of non-Burmese writers probably know little about Burmese culture, and end up copying what Burmese writers report. Little do they know that Burmese honorifics could change with age and station in life. Hybernator (talk) 01:32, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again for your thoughtful response. I too have been frustrated in the past by the lack of understanding in English language reporting on Burmese honorifics; at the same time, though, it's often struck me that certain individuals keep their honorifics in English language sources written by Burmese as well, even when others don't. What Ko Aye Aung did to deserve an honorific that his fellow arrestee Myo Min Zaw did not do, for example, is beyond me; there appears to be no significant difference in their ages, deeds, sentences, education, or background.

It seems like there's two general Wikipedia guidelines at tension here--the one against honorifics and the one calling for the more common/recognizable name form--without any easy way to resolve them. This tension unfortunately seems to have reproduced in the Burmese-specific section, where the guidelines state that "if their name is most commonly written with the honorific, you may leave the honorific in the title" and then a sentence later, appear to state that you shouldn't. To me, that does suggest some leeway, but I respect that we do disagree.

In this particular case, though, I did some more digging and did find some minor references that appear to be to Ko Aye Aung in a few tables of political prisoners and the like as "Aye Aung," so that's enough to convince me of the change; I certainly agree that in any case but the most clear-cut, the honorific should be dropped. Anyway, thanks again for taking a look. And if it's okay with you, I may drop a note the next time I write a Burmese article so you can hook me up with more Burmese script--very helpful! Cheers, Khazar (talk) 02:19, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Union of Burma Girl Guides Association[edit]

What would the name of this be in Burmese?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 13:07, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Burmese-Siamese War (1759–1760)[edit]

On 6 May 2011, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Burmese-Siamese War (1759–1760), which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the Burmese were "on the brink of victory" in the Burmese–Siamese War (1759–1760) when they suddenly withdrew from their siege of Ayutthaya because their king Alaungpaya had fallen ill? You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 00:07, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

BTW, I'm dubious about the idea that prefixes must be hyphenated, and I've seen sources that use en-dashes with them too, based purely on the semantics. I suspect that someone came up with a rule of thumb (the more common prefixes tend not to have the kinds of meanings that would trigger a dash), and that it was misunderstood as an actual rule, but it's one that several manuals of style advocate, and we've followed it on WP for a long time. — kwami (talk) 13:40, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Burmese names[edit]

Hi Hybernator,

If you're up for it, new articles Mie Mie, Yan Yan Chan, Zayar Thaw, and Generation Wave could all use Burmese-script names at some point. Thanks for all you do! -- Khazar (talk) 06:29, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto 88 Generation Students Group. Cheers, -- Khazar (talk) 15:41, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! -- Khazar (talk) 21:09, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification[edit]

Hello, this is my problem with this:

"The cause of war has been given as the Burmese attempt to take advantage of a political crisis in Ayutthaya[1], and/or the Burmese attempt to stop Siamese incursions into the upper Tenasserim coast.[2][3]"

"given as the Burmese attempt to take advantage of a political crisis in Ayutthaya": Take advantage to do what exactly? Need a better sentence and information to explain this more carefully
"and/or the Burmese attempt": and/or is not very encyclopaedic, please see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (words to watch), furthermore too many 'attempts'

Congrats on the 1759–1760 article, Best Regards. Sodacan (talk) 07:59, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to make/word-smith the sentence better. But deletion isn't the way to handle it. It's essential to state the casus belli in the lead of a war article. Btw, the casus belli are the ones stated in the article's main body. I didn't pull it out of thin air. Hybernator (talk) 18:38, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have absolutely no problem with the history, only the words. I just needed to maintain the article's standard as a GA. Sodacan (talk) 18:53, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As I said, feel free to make it better. Deletion isn't the way to deal with it. Thanks. Hybernator (talk) 18:57, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I will and your welcome. Sodacan (talk) 19:11, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Concerns met?[edit]

Hi, have the concerns you raised at Minneapolis wireless internet network been met? OCNative (talk) 00:48, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Acid (hip-hop)[edit]

Acid (hip-hop) could use its Burmese script name if you're up for it. As always, thanks for your past and future help. Cheers Khazar (talk) 16:17, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you have a moment this week, Khin Ohmar and Khun Htun Oo are also both heading for the front page via DYK and could use both Burmese script and your good editorial eye. Cheers Khazar (talk) 14:35, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Btw, Khun is another Shan honorific like Sai. Also, about ACID, most Burmese publications simply use the English name. Found only a few that transliterate the name to Burmese. Hybernator (talk) 19:49, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the tip--I don't know my Shan ones. Would you suggest moving the article? I'm fine either way. And thanks as always for the language help. -- Khazar (talk) 19:51, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, let's keep it at Khun Htun Oo per the existing policy. Although I personally feel ethnic honorifics should be dropped, some have contended with justification that ethnic people tend to use their honorific as part of their name to indicate their origin, and that it should be considered as part of their formal name. (So in this example, Khun Htun Oo uses Khun as part of the name to indicate his Shan ancestry because Htun Oo by itself is a (common) Burmese/Burman name.) Hope this helps. Hybernator (talk) 20:04, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It does, thanks. Oh, and one more guy about a week away from the front page if you have a moment: Ohn Than. Cheers, -- Khazar (talk) 20:07, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Aung Pwint[edit]

Hi Hybernator, Another article that could use your Burmesing: Aung Pwint. Take a look if you get a chance--thanks as always, Khazar (talk) 09:09, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Minor barnstar[edit]

		The Modest Barnstar
		Thanks for your modest diligence in sorting Burmese names and adding Burmese-language text to Wikipedia to help out myself and other editors. It's a small contribution in some ways, but makes our Wikipedia much more searchable for interwiki-ing and foreign language users. Cheers, Khazar (talk) 04:21, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Hybernator (talk) 14:04, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for File:Kyansittha-ananda-temple.png[edit]

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Fair use rationale for File:Kyansittha-national-musem.png[edit]

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Possibly unfree File:Burma-700ad.jpg[edit]

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File permission problem with File:Glass-palace-plan.JPG[edit]

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Orphaned non-free image File:Glass-palace-plan.JPG[edit]

⚠

Thanks for uploading File:Glass-palace-plan.JPG. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 04:59, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Burmese–Siamese War (1765–1767)[edit]

On 17 July 2011, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Burmese–Siamese War (1765–1767), which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the Burmese–Siamese War (1765–1767) ended the four-century-old Ayutthaya Kingdom in 1767 but the Burmese were forced to withdraw within the year of their victory by the Chinese invasions of Burma? You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:Hintha-thorone.JPG[edit]

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File permission problem with File:Glass-palace-cross-section.JPG[edit]

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File:Htoo-Ein-Thin-profile.jpg listed for deletion[edit]

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Burmese-Siamese war (1765-1767) map[edit]

Thank you for your suggestion :)

I've been requested by the fellow Thai Wikipedians to translate your map (File:Burmese-Siamese-war-1765-1767.PNG) into Thai, but I saw that the file was, sorry, in quite low definition and therefore difficult to be modified, so I created a new map at all (which is Burmese-Siamese war (1765-1767) map - EN - 001.jpg).

As for you suggestion, I will improve the map as quickly as possible (I'm attending university and is to sit in a mid-semester test).

PS. I've moved the relevant topic in my Commons Talk Page to my Thai Wikipedia Talk Page where I am regularly active.

--Aristitleism (talk) 13:53, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Royal Burmese Army[edit]

On 27 August 2011, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Royal Burmese Army, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the Royal Burmese Army employed a conscription system that required local chiefs to supply men from their jurisdiction on the basis of population? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Royal Burmese Army.You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:02, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Burma[edit]

Please do not care who am I but yes I am one of three users (I was editing MRTV article last year)

I want to know if you are English or Burmese and are you still living in Burma? If not then where are you living, when and why did you go?--101.51.226.192 (talk) 13:58, 23 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Need your help[edit]

Hello hybernator, I need your help to edit history section of Myitsone Dam article. If you know anything about the history of the confluence region, could you help me add? Thanks. Soewinhan (talk) 16:21, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome back. Good to see you're back contributing. The history section reads fine to me, and is just appropriate for the topic. I don't think feudal and colonial era history, which I presume you mean, is appropriate here. It belongs in the Kachin State article, which currently starts with the Panglong treaty.

FYI, the confluence region historically belonged to the Shan state of Mogaung, which was one of the most powerful/militant Shan states. Restored Toungoo (Nyaungyan) and Konbaung kings put a lot of effort into "taming" the region. Most likely during the Konbaung era (I need to research the exact reign), it along with Mohnyin and Bhamo was brought under direct rule (i.e. governorship), and stripped of hereditary rights of the sawbwa. China had claimed much of Kachin State since the fall of Pagan. Their claims aren't groundless because these border states paid dual tribute. By the same token, Burma could claim the entire southern region of Yunnan.

I will contribute to the history sections of the Burmese states later but they are a low priority for me right now. Of course, you can help contribute. Thanks. Hybernator (talk) 23:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh I see. Thanks. I was looking for some history facts regarding the dam. For example, China's Three Gorges Dam history section has a nice one. I just want to know whether the dam was previously envisioned or not. Now, I assume it was not. SWH^talk 06:03, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you![edit]

	The Original Barnstar
	For Military history of Burma. Superbly done. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:01, 16 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Doc. Hybernator (talk) 22:01, 16 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

New Page Patrol survey[edit]

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Rohingya[edit]

I learn that there has been contentious arguments regarding Rohingya. Some Burmese historians say that Rohingyas are just Bengali people who illegally immigrated into Myanmar during 1939-1950s. But some international sources such as UNHCR say Rohingyas have been residing in Myanmar since Islamic Golden Age. Trade brought substantial Muslim populations to Rakhine. Do you know what prominent international scholars say about that? I am just curious. Thanks. SWH^talk 04:10, 27 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'll be researching into that topic. Hope you guide me. Thanks. SWH^talk 04:25, 27 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You should research the issue. I'm afraid I can't recommend any "prominent scholars" or reputable Arakan specialists regarding this issue.

Just bear in mind that it's easy to conflate the history of Muslims in Arakan/Rakhine with that of the Rohingya. They are not the same. It's a fact that Muslims have lived and contributed to the society in what is now Rakhine State for centuries. People of South-Asian descent, Hindu Indians, probably for millennia. Probably earlier than the Tibeto-Burman speaking Rakhine people. But it is also a fact that many people of the subcontinent migrated to Burma during the long colonial era. The numbers were massive. (See Thant Myint-U, The River of Lost Footsteps, pp. 185–187.) Arakan, one of the earliest to fall to the British, April 1825, naturally was inundated with immigrants from India. Sittwe, Yangon, Pathein and Mawlamyaing all had Indian majority populations. Many Indians left after WWII but many also remained. Rakhine/Arakan was no exception. The argument that the Rohingya, who look and speak Bengali, are mainly of Bengali immigrants that entered during the colonial era has a lot of merit. My *educated guess* is that a small portion of the Rohingya can probably trace their ancestry to Arakan for centuries prior to the British; a small portion entered after Burmese independence, but a larger portion, probably the vast majority of the Rohingya, are descendants of Bengali immigrants during the long colonial era.

Illegal immigration is a major existential issue for a country like Myanmar, sandwiched between the two most populous countries. And the government should do its best to protect the borders. But for those already living inside, especially those who have lived here for generations, we need to deal with it. They are human beings. In my opinion, those that have lived in the country for generations should have the same full rights. Those that came after 1948 should have a path to legal residency and citizenship. They can better help/contribute to the society. Hybernator (talk) 01:29, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I concur with you. Rohingya may not be an indigenous ethnic group. But, they should have a path to Burmese citizenship. SWH^talk 16:46, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Chola dynasty[edit]

I just come across a featured article, the Chola dynasty. That article claims that Myanmar and most SEA countries were subordinates of Chola dynasty (the infobox map). However, I have never known any submission to Chola from any SEA country. Moreover, the map in that article is obviously wrong since it includes both Mon kingdom and most parts of Pagan kingdom. What do you think? Was there any submission? Thanks. SWH^talk 09:27, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

None of the history books on Burma mentions any political control by any Indian dynasty in any period in Burmese history. Period. This is another case of conflating cultural influence with political control. Indian culture permeated deep into northern Upper Burma as early as early first millennium. But southeastern India alone can't claim credit for all of that. Pyu city-states traded with all over India. For example, the Pyu script is based on a western Indian script, not the southeast. And the map says c. 1050. Well, Anwarahta had already become king by then, and was about to launch the conquest of Lower Burma. No recorded events of any vassal states of Chola. Also the Sri Vijaya empire didn't include all of Sumatra, just the coastline. Hybernator (talk) 14:25, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, as I suspected. Thanks for your comment at Chola article. SWH^talk 15:54, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Map[edit]

Thanks for your suggestions. I have amended the map. Although I would like to make an increasingly lighter shade at the border area, there are some technical limitations. Because I didn't make a distinction between the border lines and the coastal lines, coastal regions would inevitably become a lighter shade if I changed the border area. I'll try to do so in the future maps. For now, I just leave a note at the file page. I'll be drawing a similar map for Restored Toungoo by this weekends. Thanks. SWH ^talk 11:59, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reply at my talk page. I can make increasingly lighter shade if you like, but it doesn't look good. SWH ^talk 09:42, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sino-Burmese War casualties[edit]

I think I summed up four casualty numbers (one for each campaign) to get the total number of casualties. The numbers are from different sources. Not only from Dai's paper. I don't remember exactly. (Sorry) Please update the number or the reference when you get a chance. I no longer have access to a library right now. SWH ^talk 18:32, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Prome[edit]

A recent edit changed Burmese troop strength from 9,000 to 60,000. The cited book (a British account) does conform that number. But I think Burmese could not be able to field such a huge army considering even Bandula's army wasn't that large. Is there any Burmese accounts or historians' opinions to confirm this? Thanks. SWH ^talk 18:44, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for pointing this out. The current edit is clearly based on post-war British accounts, and certainly exaggerated. The Burmese forces at this battle consisted of mostly Shans (8000). In fact, the non-Shan part of the army only had 1000 to 1300 men, according to the Konbaung Hset chronicle. I'll update the article over the weekend. The British made the same exaggerated claims for the Battle of Yangon. The British accounts claimed Bandula had 60,000 men. But the Burmese sources say 30,000. Thant Myint-U's first book Making of Modern Burma repeated the British claim but his subsequent the River of Lost Footsteps states 30,000.Hybernator (talk) 01:33, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Myawaddy[edit]

Hello Hybernator, you added exact day of birth in de:Myawaddy Mingyi U Sa. Was it you? I reverted because there was no reference. Now I see you are specialized in Burmese history. So, if there is a reference, could you please give it here or there. Thanks -- 88.66.227.62 (talk) 18:37, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Put in the ciation in the English Wikipedia, and re-entered the change in German Wiki. Hybernator (talk) 04:05, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Map[edit]

I've uploaded the map here. Any comments? SWH ^talk 11:35, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I replied at my talk page.SWH^talk 03:37, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Princess Learned-in-the-law[edit]

Hi Hybernator, I don't know if you normally watch the Language Reference Desk, but there's a question at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language#Fictive judge in Burmese "fables": Princess Learned-in-the-Law that you might be able to answer. Angr (talk) 07:21, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification[edit]

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Disambiguation link notification[edit]

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Block the pages[edit]

I think it's time we ask the admins to block those Burmese-related articles. ༆ (talk) 18:57, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've mentioned you at ANI[edit]

Hi. Could you please take a look at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Two_having_it_out. Thanks, EyeSerene^talk 10:15, 2 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rename?[edit]

Say, Burma's official names from 1948 to present are as the following: Union of Burma (1948-62), Socialist Republic of the Union of Burma (1962-88), Union of Myanmar (1988-2011), and Republic of the Union of Myanmar after that.

Should we rename Post-independence Burma, 1948–1962 article to Union of Burma? ༆ (talk) 05:45, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

IMO we should. The only thing is that the name "Union of Burma" was retained until 1974. The Socialist Republic name didn't come into effect till then (per the 1974 constitution). That said, I'd submit most people associate the name Union of Burma with the first 14 years of post-independence, and the Socialist Republic with Gen. Ne Win's rule. After all, 1962–1988 is generally considered the first military rule although the 1974 constitution, technically speaking, turned the country back over civilian rule. We should bring up the topic on the Talk page, and also get others' take. Regards, Hybernator (talk) 02:03, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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DYK for Thamudarit[edit]

On 18 April 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Thamudarit, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Thamudarit, who according to legend reigned over the Pagan Kingdom from 107 to 152 CE, was only proclaimed the founder of this kingdom in 1829? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Thamudarit.You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 01:36, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Abhiyaza[edit]

On 27 April 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Abhiyaza, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the Glass Palace Chronicle in 1829 proclaimed Abhiyaza as the founder of the Burmese monarchy in contradiction to the prevailing pre-Buddhist origin myth? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Abhiyaza.You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Yngvadottir (talk) 00:06, 27 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Help[edit]

Hello Hybernator, Is there any book dealing specifically about the events surrounding 1988? Most of our articles from Wikipedia portray Military as the main culprit for two decades of stagnation since 1988. But I heard from somewhere that NLD rejected the compromise proposal in 1990s which would reserve 25% of the seats for military. They also boycotted the National Assembly. Is that true? SWH^®^talk 00:55, 2 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid I'm not much help here. My knowledge here is that of an interested lay observer only. With that caveat, I'll answer your two-part question.

First, I'm not aware of a book dedicated to the topic of 1988 uprising or even the late 1980s up to the 1990 election. A meaningful book on the topic should in part contain information based on interviews with those involved from all sides, not just based on the account of the exiles. Given that the political climate has just recently improved, I'm sure such a meaningful book is yet to be written. Now, I still think that the military will not fare well even in a more balanced light. (No excuse for killing your own people, and shutting down the education system for a decade. Talk about a lost generation. Talk about cutting the nose to spite the face!)

Second, yes, I've heard some in the military wanted a Golkar-style arrangement (i.e. institutionalized role of the military in parliament/politics) but I'm not aware of a formal public proposal. I'm not sure if that proposal ever had the support of the top brass of the military. Then again, I can also see DASSK rejecting such an offer in the 1990s. As much as I admire her personal courage and integrity, I always thought she should have been more flexible. She was never a natural politician like her father who was a pragmatic person and actually got things done. Not sure which National Assembly you mean. AFAIK, the military did an about face after the 1990 elections that the elections were not to convene the assembly but to write a new constitution. HTH. Hybernator (talk) 00:38, 3 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(talk page stalker) There are a few books about some aspects of the 8888 uprising, but nothing approaching the type of things that would be helpful here. Therein lies the problem for us; while the historian in me is eager to get his hands on the accounts of people who lived it, there's never been anyone who really tried to piece it all together from an outside viewpoint; it's the one thing I've found easier to write an academic paper on over a Wikipedia article. For fairly obvious reasons, the flow of information out of the country would be extremely stunted at the moment, and is likely to remain so for a while yet (IMO, the political changes there are somewhat overstated, there are still some very serious issues with some of the ethnic minorities in the country, especially the Karen). As to the second paragraph, you're pretty much right (some in the military did push for an arrangement as you describe above), but the very top people didn't seem to care for it for image purposes; doesn't look too good to do that when you're simultaneously trying to hide the fighting with the KNU from the rest of the world. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 21:09, 3 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The ethnic issue needs to be solved for the country to achieve long-term sustainable peace. I hope a binding agreement on the basis of federalism can be reached among all the ethnic groups. Hybernator (talk) 02:08, 4 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your reply. I really hope we'll get a clearer picture soon. Sorry for late response. SWH^®^talk 18:02, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Request for translation[edit]

Greetings! Could you translate Call of Duty: Black Ops II, Selena Gomez, Abdul Halim of Kedah, 1Malaysia, Chittagong Division and Shan people into the wonderful Burmese language? If you have much time, please reply. --112.210.111.142 (talk) 07:20, 6 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

He will monitor his own talk page and wait for you to reply. Thank you. --112.210.69.3 (talk) 09:34, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Did you know nominations/Burmese chronicles[edit]

Hi Hybernator, I've reviewed the article and there are some issues. Could you please comment on the nomination? Thanks. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:10, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Burmese chronicles[edit]

On 29 June 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Burmese chronicles, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that extant Burmese chronicles are the most extensive and detailed historical records available in Southeast Asia but many lesser known chronicles remain unstudied? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Burmese chronicles. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:02, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yangon City Heritage List[edit]

Hello Hybernator, Is there any way to access the original document (Special Reports...) which you cite as the source for this list? I don't know whether the .mm domain has a problem or if it is blocked, either way it always times out. Reason for this query is some confusion regarding the location of the Yangon Divisional Court. The building at No 1 Pansodan Rd is definitely the old Accountant General's Office, but according to old maps and Google Maps the Court House is the building which occupies the whole block to the West of the Customs House, and so should have a completely different address. So the question arises - is it the AG's Office which belongs on the list, or both buildings? This is important right now because I have a report that someone is going to build a hotel on the Court House site. thanks in advance --Penang2012 (talk) 08:17, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You have asked a few questions here; I'll try to answer as I understand them.

No, I don't have access to the original document; I got it through the URL, which I see is no longer working. (The myanmar.gov.mm site was a Burmese government portal, which used to have a number of links to then government's approved sites of which /myanmartimes was one. The Myanmar Times later moved to its own current site www.mmtimes.com. But the current site shows archived editions only back to 2007-06-04.) I found a cached front-page of the Myanmar Times issue here: http://www.ibiblio.org/obl/docs3/MT087.htm; we can still see the story headline on the front page titled "OUR RICH ARCHITECTURAL HERITAGE". Unfortunately, I don't see a cached page of "Special Report".

Anyway, I don't think the original doc will answer your real question (which I take to be "Does the Myanmar Times article name 1 Pansodan Rd as the old AG office?"). The answer for that question is "No". It simply names the address as a Divisional Court. See my edit [1] on 17 September 2010. The identification as the old AG office was added on 10 March 2012 [2] based on this Flickr photo [3]. According to the signage in the photo, the building was the Yangon Western District Court when the photo was taken. But the photographer has asserted (as you have) that it was the old Accountant General's office. I'll give him (and you) the benefit of the doubt but I hope you have a more authoritative source to back it up. I bring it up only because your question "is it the AG's Office which belongs on the list, or both buildings" seems to presume that it was indeed the AG office... But no, the Myanmar Times article doesn't name it as the old AG building.

This soon-to-be-published book [4] on Yangon's colonial era buildings might shed some light on this. It's supposed to come out in August. HTH, Hybernator (talk) 17:08, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Link to "Anglo-Burmese wars" in the Burmese history template[edit]

It is the only link to war article in the template. My question is: what make the Anglo-Burmese wars more notable and important than the wars against the Mongol Empire, Qing Empire, Arakan, and Siam anyway? ༆ (talk) 02:19, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Good question. I did think about that. I've kept the Anglo-Burmese Wars not as a war article per se but as a device to indicate how the country's independence was lost in stages. Removing Anglo-Burmese wars (1824–1885) and leaving British colonial period (1824–1948) alone would be inaccurate since not all parts of the country were acquired in 1824–1826. Now, we could do something like this:

British Arakan and British Tenasserim (1824–1942, 1945–1948)
British Lower Burma (1852–1942, 1945–1948)
British Upper Burma (1885–1942, 1945–1948).

This isn't far fetched. Something like this used to be part of the template a couple of years ago. It's unwieldy, to say the least. Now, if there's a better way to convey the gradual loss of independence, I'm open to suggestions. I've thought about an article that covers the entire acquisition phases, which actually stretches to 1896 (Pacification of Burma). But until then, this will have to do. HTH, Hybernator (talk) 01:46, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You might need to take a look at the Naresuan article, the sections about the invasion of Pegu, Toungoo and Lanna. The contents also say otherwise, similar to the contents added by sockpuppets in History of Burma. Let's fix those words too. ༆ (talk) 04:19, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the heads-up. The article is filled with many inaccuracies, and poorly sourced for such an important figure in history. But the inaccuracies, I suspect, are what they are taught in schools. I'll look at it this weekend. Thanks. Hybernator (talk) 00:37, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There is an ongoing discuss on the talk page of Burma to whether to rename the article to Myanmar. Check it if you haven't. ༆ (talk) 21:30, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That, I'm aware of. It's not a discussion I want to be part of. Too many emotional arguments, with no resolution in sight. I can use my time more effectively by contributing elsewhere. Thanks for the heads-up, anyway. Cheers. Hybernator (talk) 23:29, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language#Mongol-era names of provinces of Burma in Chinese characters and in pinyin[edit]

I have added another reply to your question on the reference desk. Hope it helps. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 09:52, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for August 21[edit]

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DYK nomination of Yazawin Thit[edit]

Hello! Your submission of Yazawin Thit at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! BlueMoonset (talk) 19:36, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Yazawin Thit[edit]

On 28 August 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Yazawin Thit, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Yazawin Thit, the first historical document in Southeast Asia written in consultation with epigraphic evidence, was rejected after being judged too critical of the prior Burmese chronicles? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Yazawin Thit. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:02, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for September 16[edit]

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DYK for Maha Yazawin[edit]

On 28 September 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Maha Yazawin, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the 18th-century Burmese chronicle Maha Yazawin of Toungoo Dynasty has formed the basis for all subsequent histories of the country? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Maha Yazawin. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Yngvadottir (talk) 00:03, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Maha Sammata[edit]

On 29 September 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Maha Sammata, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that according to Buddhist cosmology, in the beginning of the world, Maha Sammata was elected by the people of Jambudvipa, the only habitable continent on earth, to be their first monarch? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Maha Sammata. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you![edit]

	The Admin's Barnstar
	I have made you an Admin! Nick2crosby (talk) 01:21, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Non-free rationale for File:Shin-arahan-ananda-temple.png[edit]

Thanks for uploading or contributing to File:Shin-arahan-ananda-temple.png. I notice the file page specifies that the file is being used under non-free content criteria, but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia is acceptable. Please go to the file description page, and edit it to include a non-free rationale.

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified the non-free rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. If you have any questions, please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 21:35, 5 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mraung-U[edit]

Hi, I stubbed the remaining Burmese monarchs from the Mraung-U kingdom. I've hidden the Burmese name templates and some other things and added books which you might have to make expansion easier. If you could flesh them out gradually this would be great, excellent job so far!♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 21:29, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much for your ongoing help. I'll flesh them out as I get time. Regards, Hybernator (talk) 20:57, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Burmese Voyager greeting[edit]

Hi Hybernator! Could you please go to Contents of the Voyager Golden Record#Greetings and correct the Burmese there? The letters are all mixed up, and don't seem to match the audio (which you can hear here). Thanks! Angr (talk) 21:38, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Hybernator (talk) 15:20, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! One more question: is Mottama really pronounced [moʊʔtəma̰] and not [moʊʔtʰəma̰]? It's spelled with ထ after all. Angr (talk) 22:15, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It was a typo. Thanks for noticing that kind of detail! Just fixed it. Btw, I understand locals actually pronounce it [mədəma̰]. Not sure why. I pronounce it the way it's spelled: [moʊʔtəma̰]. Thanlyin is another one. The local pronunciation is [təɲɪ̀ɴ], which is my pronunciation. But a lot of people pronounce [θàɴljɪ̀ɴ], the way it's spelled, and it's actually gaining by leaps and bounds. I increasingly hear even Yangonites and TV announcers pronounce [θàɴljɪ̀ɴ]. [təɲɪ̀ɴ] is going the way of [ʔəwa̰] (Inwa/Ava). Hybernator (talk) 23:31, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I guess all written languages fall prey to spelling pronunciations sooner or later. Brits always tease Americans for pronouncing place names like Worcester and Leicester the way they're spelled, but even Brits now pronounce Cirencester the way it's spelled rather than [ˈsɪsɪtə] as it used to be. I noticed Mottama because over at Wiktionary, someone added it to wikt:Wiktionary:Requested entries (Burmese)#မ and I wanted to add the romanization and IPA transcription. Angr (talk) 06:55, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

About My School: BEHS 2 Latha[edit]

Dear Sir/Madame Hybernator,
I know you are very busy with wikipedia and you are one of the VIP of en.wikipedia. Please forgive me for editing about BEHS 2 Latha.

I don't know rules of en.wikipedia about how to add references and facts.

I love wikipedia and I want to help wikipedia because wikipedia is very essential for students
and people. If you think that I am disturbing about BEHS 2 Latha's page, I humbly apology to you and en.wikipedia.

By the way, I saw that 121.6.115.116 user added more facts at my school page: BEHS 2 Latha. 121.6.115.116 is not me. And I want you to accept his facts to add at BEHS 2 Latha page such as: "Enormous amount if enrollment fees is required for a student to be able to get a place in this school which is known for its holistic and systematic education in all aspects. Approximately 80% of the students who attend Latha 2 are wealthy with high family statuses. The school produces top students who score perfect scores (distinctions in all subjects) annually with at least one third of the graduating students getting a place in Medical College undoubtedly." His all facts are true. So permit me to add his facts to my school page.

If I get more facts about my school, I will add. I know all information about BEHS 2 Latha because I am an OLD school-girl of BEHS 2 Latha (St. John's Convent School). I took some school photos of BEHS 2 Latha and I uploaded at en.wikipedia. I am just an Amature, not professional.

Please will you allow me to continue to use 121.6.115.116's facts at BEHS 2 Latha? I love my school and wikipedia!

I sincerely edit some pages at en.wikipedia and my.wikipedia. If you have any instructions (how to do, how to add, methods of editing) about editing en.wikipedia, please let me know.

God bless you and thanks a lot,
Ladybesttruthful

About my school BEHS 2 Latha[edit]

Dear Sir/Madame Hybernator, I know you are very busy with wikipedia and you are one of the VIP of en.wikipedia. Please forgive me for editing about BEHS 2 Latha.

I don't know rules of en.wikipedia about how to add references and facts.

I love wikipedia and I want to help wikipedia because wikipedia is very essential for students and people. If you think that I am disturbing about BEHS 2 Latha's page, I humbly apology to you and en.wikipedia.

By the way, I saw that 121.6.115.116 user added more facts at my school page: BEHS 2 Latha. 121.6.115.116 is not me. And I want you to accept his facts to add at BEHS 2 Latha page such as: "Enormous amount if enrollment fees is required for a student to be able to get a place in this school which is known for its holistic and systematic education in all aspects. Approximately 80% of the students who attend Latha 2 are wealthy with high family statuses. The school produces top students who score perfect scores (distinctions in all subjects) annually with at least one third of the graduating students getting a place in Medical College undoubtedly." His all facts are true. So permit me to add his facts to my school page.

If I get more facts about my school, I will add. I know all information about BEHS 2 Latha because I am an OLD school-girl of BEHS 2 Latha (St. John's Convent School). I took some school photos of BEHS 2 Latha and I uploaded at en.wikipedia. I am just an Amature, not professional.

Please will you allow me to continue to use 121.6.115.116's facts at BEHS 2 Latha? I love my school and wikipedia!

I sincerely edit some pages at en.wikipedia and my.wikipedia. If you have any instructions (how to do, how to add, methods of editing) about editing en.wikipedia, please let me know.

God bless you and thanks a lot, --Ladybesttruthful (talk) 09:17, 26 March 2013 (UTC) Ladybesttruthful (I send this letter to you again because yesterday, I forgot to sign.)[reply]

You don’t have to ask for my permission to edit the article. Please learn to familiarize yourself with how to add references. It’s already on your talk page but in case, you haven’t seen it, find it here: [5].

I’d like to see more active Burmese Wikipedia editors, and it’s not my intention to drive any new editor out by imposing tons of rules and regulations. At the same time, please learn to provide reliable sources, and be as objective as possible. If you do that, your content is less likely to be removed or challenged, and you’re less likely to be sucked into “edit wars” which waste everyone’s time.

Just a note about your edits on the BEHS 2 Latha so far: It’s written like a school fan page. You haven’t provided any reliable or supporting references. When you add a reference tag, that tag should support what you’ve written. E.g., the references for Win Min Than and Kyi Phyu Shin say nothing about the fact that they went to St. John’s or BEHS 2 Latha. Now, the reference for Mi Mi Khaing does confirm that she went to St. John’s.

And stuff like “The school produces top students who score perfect scores (distinctions in all subjects) annually with at least one third of the graduating students getting a place in Medical College.” is just an assertion. You cannot make categorical claims without providing any reliable sources.

Now, I realize that getting proper sources about Burmese high schools isn’t easy. But it’s not impossible. I’ve seen a few articles on the state of Burmese education. So, you’ll have to dig a little deeper, and you may not be able to make more specific claims. But your articles will be seen as more objective/reliable and less likely to be challenged. Again please read the Wiki help pages. Best regards, Hybernator (talk) 15:35, 29 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please let me write about my school.[edit]

Dear Sir/Madame Hybernator,
Thank you for your replying. Also, I am not sure that Kyi Phyu Shin, Win Min Than and Myint Myint Khin are former students of BEHS 2 Latha.

By the way, please let me write about my school as: "one of the best and famous girl school" I am not boasting that my school is one of the best. Everyone in Burma who bear a daughter among his/her children, they put their daughter to my school. Everyone in Burma know that my school is one of the best like BEHS 1 Dagon (Formerly, Methodist English High School).

I humbly request you that please let me write about my school as: "one of the best and famous girl school". If you don't believe me, I will upload the photo which is 2 girls getting prizes as one of the best school-girls in Burma.

Respectfully yours, --Ladybesttruthful (talk) 08:57, 2 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ladybesttruthful

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May 2013[edit]

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Talkback[edit]

Hello, Hybernator. You have new messages at Template:Did you know nominations/Vaanam Vasappadum.
Message added 06:08, 13 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

—Vensatry _{(Ping me)} 06:08, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Journal of the Burma Research Society[edit]

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A tag has been placed on Journal of the Burma Research Society requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article or image appears to be a clear copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

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Journal of the Burma Research Society[edit]

Hi, given how long you have been around here, you should know better than to remove a CSD tag from an article that you created yourself. Also, blindly copying text from a commercial website trying to sell a journal, as you did initially, or slightly paraphrasing that text, as you did just now, will likely result in a non-neutral article. None of this is going to help the encyclopedia. Thanks. --Randykitty (talk) 21:45, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, given how long you've been around, you should have checked other articles: Burma Research Society, Burma studies mentioned in the article to see whether a serious academic journal like this deserves a speedy deletion. If you believe the text quoted in the article isn't neutral, put in a NPOV tag. Hybernator (talk) 21:54, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A copyvio always deserves a speedy deletion. It even deserves a revdelete, to remove it from an article history. --Randykitty (talk) 22:04, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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DYK for Min Razagyi[edit]

On 21 May 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Min Razagyi, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that King Razagyi of Arakan sacked and burned down Pegu, the capital of Toungoo Empire in 1600? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Min Razagyi. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 09:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

June 2013[edit]

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Burmese–Siamese War (1594–1605)[edit]

In that article, Naresuan can capture Taungoo in 1602. The fact we all know is that Naresuan laid siege to Toungoo in 1600 for about a month but he was driven back by the combined Toungoo and Arakanese forces. In my opinion, it has WP:NPOV problems, and major contributors has been blocked indefinitely. Please check that article.--Phyo WP (talk) 19:59, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much for letting me know. It certainly has NPOV issues. Please feel free to edit the article. Anything you can help will be greatly appreciated. I won't have time to work on them for a little while as I'm trying to focus on articles on Toungoo kings. Hybernator (talk) 16:11, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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DYK[edit]

Thank you for the review. I have replied.--Typing General (talk) 02:41, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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DYK for Mingyi Swe[edit]

On 23 July 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Mingyi Swe, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Mingyi Swe, Viceroy of Toungoo (r. 1540–1549) and the father of King Bayinnaung, started out as a royal household servant of King Tabinshwehti of Toungoo Burma? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Mingyi Swe. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Orlady (talk) 00:03, 23 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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DYK for Saw Binnya[edit]

On 3 August 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Saw Binnya, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Saw Binnya, Viceroy of Martaban, in 1541 offered half of his treasury to become a vassal of Goa in exchange for Portuguese military assistance against Toungoo Burma? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Saw Binnya. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Alex Shih(talk) 00:04, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Smim Payu[edit]

On 6 August 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Smim Payu, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Mon admiral Smim Payu switched to supporting the Burmese Toungoo and led a naval attack that ended his former kingdom? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Smim Payu. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 00:02, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Reževići Monastery[edit]

Thank you very much for copy-editing of this article.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:06, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Thado Dhamma Yaza I of Prome[edit]

On 29 August 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Thado Dhamma Yaza I of Prome, which you created or substantially expanded. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Thado Dhamma Yaza I of Prome. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Allen3 ^talk 12:09, 29 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Myanmar Securities Exchange Centre[edit]

On 2 September 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Myanmar Securities Exchange Centre, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the Myanmar Securities Exchange Centre is the only stock exchange in Burma (Myanmar), and has had only two listings since its founding in 1996? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Myanmar Securities Exchange Centre. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 00:02, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

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Bayinnaung (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

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DYK for Thado Dhamma Yaza II of Prome[edit]

On 2 December 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Thado Dhamma Yaza II of Prome, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Thado Dhamma Yaza II, Viceroy of Prome in the 1500s, fought in nearly every military campaign of his brother King Bayinnaung, and helped to expand and defend the Toungoo Empire? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Thado Dhamma Yaza II of Prome. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

DYKUpdateBot (talk) 05:33, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Shwebomin, Crown Prince of Burma[edit]

Dear Hybernator, please take a look at Shwebomin, Crown Prince of Burma. I can't find any relation of Shwebomin, Crown Prince of Burma to Konbaung Dynasty in Burmese, and interviews with family of current pretender to the Burmese throne around 2013 ပါတော်မူနေ့ anniversary did not mention him. PhyoWP *click 15:09, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Just looked at it. Seems to me, the issue isn't just whether he is what he claims to be but also whether he's achieved enough notoriety (say, even as an imposter) to warrant an article. On the central issue, he or anything in the article has provided any proof from a reliable source that he is what he claims to be. (Most of the citations and external links are dead links. The Defining Moment website's interview videos are no more authoritative than Chris Buyers' Royal Ark website.) The second issue is whether someone going around in England claiming to be a pretender to the Burmese throne without proof has met the notoriety/newsworthiness bar of Wikipedia. On both counts, you can take action: for starters, highlight the dead links and tag the article with non-reliable sources (or the sort), etc. Regards, Hybernator (talk) 17:44, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I nominated it for deletion. I think he is a fraud. But of course, even if a fraud, he has never obtained enough attention to warrant an article. SWH^®^talk 06:52, 12 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

December 2013[edit]

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Narapati of Ava may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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to 1468. In the early years of his reign, this former [[List of rulers of Prome|viceroy of Prome]]) (Pyay) was forced to deal with raids from the [[Shan States|Shan State]] of [[Mogaung]] as well as
Chronicle of Yunnan claims that the Ming recognized Mohnyin as Avan territory in 1452, not 1454.) Thokyeinbwa arrived at [[Beijing]] in a cage on 30 August 1454 and was executed on 2 September

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 00:17, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Did you know nominations/Myanmar National Symphony Orchestra[edit]

Hi Hybernator. Regarding your nomination, I just have a concern over close paraphrasing in a small number of passages. Please could you have a look at my comments on the template page. Regards, Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 21:57, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks; I have now verified this. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 16:59, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for December 25[edit]

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DYK for Myanmar National Symphony Orchestra[edit]

On 28 December 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Myanmar National Symphony Orchestra, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the Yangon-based Myanmar National Symphony Orchestra, founded in 2001, was permitted to perform just three public concerts in its first dozen years of existence? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Myanmar National Symphony Orchestra. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Harrias ^talk 12:02, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Bago as a seaport???[edit]

Hi. There are some mentions in Wiki (e.g. here) and elsewhere, that prosperity of the Bago in 15/16th centuries was an effect of its role as a seaport (or center of the maritime trade). But when one looks at the maps one can see that the coastline is in distance of about 40 km from Bago and that the river flowing through the city is relatively narrow. So how could the Bago be the "major seaport"??? How could sea ships reach the city by the not so wide river? I imagine that Tenasserim or Martaban were the major seaports of Hanthawaddy Kingdom and that Bago was its capital but not the seaport. Am I wrong? Can you help me to dispel this doubt as a recognized wikiexpert in the field of Myanmar history, culture etc., please. With kind regards Jeremiasz (talk) 19:18, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thanks for your interest in Myanmar's history and culture. And thanks very much indeed for your contributions on Myanmar-related topics on Polish Wikipedia. It's a good question, and I'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge. (I'm just an amateur; like a lot of Wiki contributors, my field of expertise (day job) is something else.) Bago is conjectured to be a seaport--right on the coast--during the Pagan period, before the gradual growth of the delta due to silting. See this reimagined map from 1925. But colonial era conjectures need to be checked with more scientific dating. And I don't know if Bago being on the coastline has been confirmed by actual archaeological/geological surveys.

That said, it need not have been on the coastline to have been a major port. We do know from 16th century European travellers that Bago, along with Mottama, remained a major entrepot still accessible from sea where merchant houses were set up to conduct trade. Even if it was no longer right on the coastline in the 16th century--mind you, it might never have been--we can say with a high degree of confidence that it certainly was not as far away from the coastline as today, and its port apparently was still deep enough to accommodate smaller ships of the era. We can confirm the southward shift of the coastline from the known records of other ports in the region. In the 17th century, both Thanlyin and Dagon (later Yangon) were much closer to the sea than ~50 km today. And silting has taken a toll on both Yangon and Thanlyin ports. Today, neither port can no longer support large ships, and the main port has been moved down to Thilawa, south of Thanlyin. (The coastline still inches southward each year, although its growth may have been slowed by the rising sea levels due to climate change.)

Lastly, to have been a capital for long periods, a city in those days needed to be a major economic center that could support a large population. (The kings wanted to control as many people as close to the capital region--for easier taxation enforcement, and faster mobilization.) Most capitals in Upper Myanmar were close to the Kyaukse region which was the rice basket of the country and was heavily populated. But in the south, agriculture was not as developed as the north--large scale farming in the south began only in the British era--and southern Myammar depended much more on external trade. Not surprisingly, the southern capitals of Mottama and Bago were both major ports that supported major population centers. If Bago were not a major port, we'd have to show other sources of economic activity that sustained it being a capital for centuries.

That's my two cents. I welcome more questions and feedback. Best regards, Hybernator (talk) 23:32, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much - your explanations are very convincing. I have one more (and not last, I suppose ;) ) request: would you be so kind to look at the questions that I asked Phyo WP and give me the lacking information? Best regards. Jeremiasz (talk) 14:05, 30 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've answered on that talk page. Hybernator (talk) 21:24, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much, especially for interest in "guinea pig question" ;). Jeremiasz (talk) 09:36, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Some new questions[edit]

And next question: were U Ottama, U Wizara and U Nu detained in Insein Prison? Did U Wizara conduct his last hunger strike in Insein? Could you propose some other names of famous Insein's inmates, please (I have ASSK, Min Ko Naing, Saw Wai, Soe, Than Tun and Tin U on the list so far). BTW: for more detailed answers you can use my e-mail address. Jeremiasz (talk) 07:59, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry. I'm not sure, although given their stature, it's quite probable that all three served time there. User:Wagaung, who might have retired from Wiki, would be a good one to ask this question. Hybernator (talk) 21:34, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thnx. Jeremiasz (talk) 15:08, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

U Ottama and U Wisara were in Tharrawaddy Prison, notorious during the time of British colonial rule. U Nu was in Rangoon Central Jail where all political prisoners used to be during the time of his government before it was pulled down later by the military rulers. Wagaung (talk) 21:35, 10 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

First, I hope you are not bored with my constatnt asking - believe me please, that I ask you only when I can't find reliable answers in my (rather scarce) sources. And the next questions:

What is difference between mohinga and mohinga-mon?

Never heard of mohinga-mon. But I suspect they mean မုန့်ဟင်းခါး မုန့်, which sounds odd to me. I wonder if they mean optional fritters which in Yangon are called akyaw (အကြော်). Assuming my guess is true, I've never referred to those extras as mohinga-mon myself; nor has anyone I know. But it could very well be regional usage. (I can give you a more precise answer if you have the Burmese spelling.)

The "banana bud stem" is one of mohinga's ingredients. What is the bud in this case: the top of banana tree (i.e. meristem) or banana flower? Regards. Jeremiasz (talk) 10:11, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It's the banana trunk. It's sliced into thin pieces, thrown into the soup-base along with other ingredients. Anyway, you should try out mohinga if you get a chance. The soup is surprisingly similar to bouillabaisse. Hybernator (talk) 22:03, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank a lot. Mohinga is one of my favorite dishes. Unfortunately, Burmese cuisine is underrepresented in the world and barely existent in Poland :((( Even in Myanmar one can have problems to find Burmese dishes: when I was in Bagan I wanted my son to try Burmese cuisine (I always try to eat only local dishes of the country I am traveling to). But all restaurants around our hotel (4 or 5) had only Thai and Chinese dishes (which were very tasty, but not local...). Finally, when I asked for only Burmese dish hardly found in the menu (it was kind of salty bean paste - very tasty!) the waitress warned me: "You will not like it!". Regards. Jeremiasz (talk) 07:36, 5 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]