User talk:Kew Gardens 613/List of closed New York City Subway entrances

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General[edit]

Any additional information would be appreciated. If you have a tip, and don't know how to format it in the table you can mention it here.

@Kew Gardens 613: some street stair figures are lower because it seems that passages aren't counted as street stairs. Perhaps we should have a separate section on exits that lead to buildings (as opposed to streets). Mtattrain (talk) 20:08, 8 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: That seems like a good idea.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 20:39, 8 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: I think I did most, if not all of this. I think that a few of the closed exits at Hoyt-Schermerhorn might also have to be moved.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 12:50, 11 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> Hoyt/Schermerhorn actually has around 7 to 8 closed street stairs lol. Mtattrain (talk) 13:09, 11 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Archive[edit]

@Mtattrain: Why did you remove the Durst passageway?--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 00:49, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> I don't think the passageway was closed; it was just never opened. I could be wrong though; maybe there was a passageway before the BOA building was made but I have no sources on that. Mtattrain (talk) 01:12, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: Can you review the additions I have made when you have a chance? Thanks so much for your help.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 16:15, 22 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: Why don't you think that the Queens Plaza entrance closed?--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:46, 22 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> It can still be seen on Google maps, as recently as 2018. Mtattrain (talk) 19:16, 22 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: One of them is still open, but the other was closed and replaced.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:20, 22 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> I don't believe so. The exits I see vs the diagram from the 1990s agenda seem to be in the same pattern. I could check again though. Mtattrain (talk) 15:46, 23 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> @Kew Gardens 613: Confirmed by an MTA employee - nothing is closed at Queens Plaza (unless something is closed temporarily for construction there). Mtattrain (talk) 20:43, 8 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: I have a few questions about your changes: Why did you change Eastern corners of Warren Street and Church Street to Northeastern? At 50th Street, why did you remove the note that the eastern corners at 52nd and 8th were in the uptown direction only? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:20, 22 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> Simplification. Also there is an entrance still on the SE corner of Warren and Church, though one may have been removed on the NE corner. Mtattrain (talk) 15:46, 23 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: Also, why did you remove South Street and State Street at SF?--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:28, 22 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> I don't know if that is even an intersection. I think there was only one exit by the time SF closed. Mtattrain (talk) 15:46, 23 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: http://web.mta.info/nyct/maps/newmap.pdf --Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:08, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: Do you think adding a ridership column for context would be useful? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:46, 22 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> I think it would, it would give a bigger incentive to reopen entrances, especially at stations with only one entry/exit point. Mtattrain (talk) 15:46, 23 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: Do you think a new column should be created for closing dates?--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:30, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
>If we get enough data sure. Mtattrain (talk) 20:12, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Kew Gardens 613:: I was wondering if we should add the amount of "sets" of exits, or how many fare control points are present. Might help identify stations that really need another access point, since there are stations with just one "set" of exits out there. Mtattrain (talk) 07:44, 2 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That is a good idea. I have control numbers for some of them, which can be added as well. Thanks again for your help.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 23:51, 2 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Where is this exit: the closed subway level entrance, a former JJ News and staircase (with a closed sign) from the 33 Street Uptown platform mezzanine?--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 20:42, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> Not sure, maybe I'll check soon. Mtattrain (talk) 07:45, 2 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> It's open, I think I inadvertently went up that staircase. Mtattrain (talk) 03:41, 7 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: Thanks again for the additions. Why did you remove Passageway to Second Place and Smith Street. DJHammers mentioned this on reddit, and he knows a lot about the ins and outs of the system.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 13:47, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> 2nd Pl and smith st is already an exit lol. Mtattrain (talk) 15:00, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> Never mind that, there was an old 2nd Pl exit that was replaced by the current 2nd Pl exit. Mtattrain (talk) 03:45, 7 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: In this edit you removed the Southwest corner of Broadway and Union Avenue. When did you hear that this would reopen, and when? It wasn't in the EA for the Canarsie Shutdown. Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 13:05, 19 March 2019 (UTC) > They've been doing work on that exit since January this year for a non-L train project. It's almost about to reopen. Mtattrain (talk) 15:16, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Kew Gardens 613: can you upload a closeup of Times Square on your older neighborhood maps. I am trying to cross check if any exits were relocated/closed at Times Square. WNYC claims there are 6 that are simply closed (possibly not replaced by the newer entrances). Mtattrain (talk) 03:40, 7 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: While I have a lot of stuff in my transit collection, 99% of the transit items on my Flickr are from eBay listings, and I save them for wikipedia and so that the information is not lost. I do have on neighborhood map in my collection from Queens Plaza, but that won't help. Sorry. I will check my 1992 report on Times Square when I have time.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 11:27, 7 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Mtattrain: Why did you remove Parkside Avenue? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 00:09, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> Can't confirm Parkside at this time.

@Mtattrain: Where did you hear about the following entrance at my home subway station, which I know pretty well? Southwestern corner of western Union Turnpike service road and Queens Boulevard (1)--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 00:00, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> It's a guess, I could be entirely wrong. In any case, WNYC claims there is a closed exit somewhere that is not one of the kiss-n-ride spots. Mtattrain (talk) 23:10, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why did you remove the one from Union Square?--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 02:50, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> There's exits to 15th St and Park Ave, SW and SE corners. I feel like the closed exit is elsewhere. Mtattrain (talk) 15:01, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

More station locations[edit]

@Mtattrain: I added more using a map that Alan Minor created. Can you look through this? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:06, 15 March 2019 (UTC) > @Kew Gardens 613:, interesting, can you link me to this information?[reply]

@Mtattrain: He sent me a password to access it. I asked him to allow you to look at it. By any chance, do you think we can date the closure of some of the entrance based on the advertisements still on the walls? Some are visible in photos you have taken. Thanks again.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 12:49, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Mtattrain: Thanks for the correction at DeKalb. I am not convinced that there is a closed exit at 65 Broadway. Do you have any evidence to the contrary? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 13:09, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> @Kew Gardens 613: The exit might be to 61 Broadway. There is a picture of a closed yellow HEET at the south end of the downtown platform before the Wall St station's renovation. Mtattrain (talk) 13:57, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That is what I thought.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 14:10, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Mtattrain: Were the closed exits at Main Street only located on the south side of Roosevelt Avenue? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 14:14, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> @Kew Gardens 613: Not sure yet. I still need to find other resources. Mtattrain (talk) 14:26, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Mtattrain: You have added information at some articles, and would like to add the information here, but I want to know more about some of them. Where does the source indicate that the exit at Morgan Avenue, closed in the early 2010s? Concerning Cypress Hills, the old neighborhood map was clearly outdated. Do you have any idea when it might have closed? I added it to the list. Should anything be added concering 23rd Street? Concerning Second Avenue, nice find on the closed exit and the mezzanine. I know that this is likely hot, but re: this and Brooklyn Bridge, could I get the hidden links (I have them for the other underlined stations)? If necessary you could emailt hem to me. Stay well and thanks for your work on this.

--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 14:11, 16 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

> Don't know when anything was closed. I presume the exit at Morgan Ave was closed for a good while from this picture [1]. I don't know anything about when the Cypress Hills exit was closed, but I would guess around the time the other exits were closed along the northern part of the J/Z line. I need to find more information regarding 23rd St. I just started underlining pages in advance, but the only thing I have for Brooklyn bridge is its side platform - I only know of one actual closed exit from NYCSubway.org's official MTA diagram of Brooklyn Bridge. I'll send you stuff that I have actually hidden though. Mtattrain (talk) 18:00, 16 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I had saved the links for Nostrand, Astor, Delancey, Broadway, 110th, and Metropolitan, which you scrubbed the link from Wikipedia. Any thoughts on the exit at Times Square that I hid?--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:23, 16 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
>That might be all I have at this time, but I'll check again. I'll keep cross checking and verify the apparently six exits that are closed, re 43rd/Broadway exit. Mtattrain (talk) 18:36, 17 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Mtattrain: According to this very out of date map there was a staircase from the northeast corner of 111th and Roosevelt. Are you sure there was ever a staircase there? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 00:03, 17 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
>The stairs at the north side of the station look like they were modified at some point, so possibly. I have no idea when the modification happened though, if any even happened. Mtattrain (talk) 18:34, 17 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Mtattrain: I am at Municipal Archives now, and just finished taking photos of committee materials for 1987. I found information on some closures, including 102-104th. I will upload the photos and add them at some point in the coming days. The passageway at Astor Place was mentioned as well.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:36, 17 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
>@Kew Gardens 613: Did you upload the 1987 station access stuff yet? Can't locate them on your Flickr page at the moment. Mtattrain (talk) 23:46, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not yet, and I have to rotate a lot of images.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 11:52, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
>Only closure I saw was in the July or June 1987 document indicating exits at Beekman and John for Fulton J/Z closed.
I didn't see those at the time I took pictures of them. Here are the changes I was talking about:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127872292@N06/48099304196/in/album-72157709178672758/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/127872292@N06/48099402782/in/album-72157709178672758/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/127872292@N06/48099348603/in/album-72157709178672758/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/127872292@N06/48099402582/in/album-72157709178672758/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/127872292@N06/48099402362/in/album-72157709178672758/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/127872292@N06/48099402262/in/album-72157709178672758/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/127872292@N06/48099402157/in/album-72157709178672758/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/127872292@N06/48099303441/in/album-72157709178672758/ --Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 20:27, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: Are we sure that there were entrances on the eastern corners of Lafayette Avenue and South Portland Avenue? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 21:53, 14 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
>@Mtattrain: Why did you remove those exits at Canal Street from the list? There was a citation for them, a neighborhood map from the 1990s? Also, if possible, could you use expanded citations when you add references? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:53, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> Trying to verify the closed exits at Fulton St, there's a giant mezzanine that's mainly employee space. Don't know how to prove the supposed Canal St Bridge Line platform-only exit besides several doors at the east end of the station. Mtattrain (talk) 21:49, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]


36th St MR[edit]

@Mtattrain: According to Jeremiah Cox of Subway Nut, there might be a closed exit on the Forest Hills-bound platform at 36th Street. I hadn't heard of such a closed entrance. The 2015 Neighborhood Map, there is an entrance shown at the northeastern corner of 34th Street and Northern Boulevard even though there is no exit there. It isn't shown on the new map. Was there ever an entrance at this location? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 14:09, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Mtattrain: I found some very detailed and fascinating station diagrams here.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:53, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> I'll see what I can do. For some reason, NY.gov sites refuse to load out here in Korea. Mtattrain (talk) 00:03, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: Know anything else about the possible exit at 36th? You added an edit on the 145th Street station (IND lines) article, saying that there were exits on both western corners. Where did you hear that there was one to the SW corner? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 01:17, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
>I think that was a mistake Mtattrain (talk) 01:44, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
>@Kew Gardens 613: no closed exits at 36th St M/R. Mtattrain (talk) 05:28, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mainspace?[edit]

@Mtattrain and Epicgenius: I would love to move this list to the mainspace, if possible. Do either of you think that it would be notable enough to warrant an article? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 22:07, 12 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Kew Gardens 613, would it fit as a section of Closed New York City Subway stations? This topic seems really niche as a standalone article and would likely get very few readers if it were an article by itself. epicgenius (talk) 02:44, 13 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Mtattrain and Epicgenius: I was afraid of that. How would putting this in that article as a section work?--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 16:37, 14 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Kew Gardens 613, I'm not sure. Maybe we can have the list of closed entrances as a level 2 subheader (two equal signs, e.g. ==Closed entrances==) under "Reopened and temporarily closed stations". I don't know yet what to do with the history of closed entrances, but I think we can put it under the "Closed entrances" header. On the other hand, since the history section of the closed-entrances article is so long, maybe this should be a separate article. epicgenius (talk) 16:41, 14 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Mtattrain: What do you think about this?--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:53, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> I think we should just keep this as a separate page for now, but include snippets of this article on pages on stations with closed exits. Mtattrain (talk) 21:50, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1991-1992 closures[edit]

@Mtattrain: I hit the mother-load at the Muncipal Archives on Monday looking at NYCTA Committee meeting materials. August 1991 October 1991 November 1991 December 1991 January 1992 March 1992 These are also on Flickr, but having them in PDFs makes some things easier. I would appreciate help adding this information. A lot of these are also reductions in booth hours, eliminations of HET/HEETs, and changes in fare control areas. Like in the 1980s and mid-1990s, these were done in bunches. We should create a separate document, maybe titled User:Kew Gardens 613/Timeline of New York City Subway Station Access Changes, which could include more than just entrance closures, but also booth changes, elimination of crossunders, etc. Do you agree? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 15:35, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

> That's pretty nice. Perhaps we could make a page, but I personally will keep focusing on the exits and mezzanines portion for now.

110th St[edit]

@Kew Gardens 613: how did you find out that some exits at 110th St B/C were closed since the 60s? I don't see a source lol. By extension though, a source could also corroborate the 118th entrances at 116th B/C closing around the same time.

@Mtattrain: I will add it, and I went over it at the ACCESS meeting on Sunday. I have a lot of work to do though. I have not seen anything about the 118th Street entrances.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 14:43, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
> I see, was busy so I could not make it. Mtattrain (talk) 17:58, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. Enjoy your time in Korea.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 11:40, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pershing Square Building[edit]

@Kew Gardens 613 and Mtattrain: Would either of you happen to know anything about a possible third staircase from the Pershing Square Building to Grand Central–42nd Street station? The entrance I'm talking about would've been on 41st Street, as shown in page 44 of this document. epicgenius (talk) 01:12, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kew Gardens 613 and Mtattrain: By the way, this purported 41st Street entrance does not show up on the official subway map, and I can't see it in Google Street View. epicgenius (talk) 22:47, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

More closed areas?/Things to take pictures of[edit]

@Mtattrain: I was just looking at nycsubway.org, and saw a few mentions of closed areas, not necessarily entrances, but I cannot verify them. Perhaps you have more information:

  • Times Square — Closed crossunder in Shuttle station (1960s closing date)
  • 28th Street — The 2001 renovation sealed off and removed any evidence of a crossunder outside fare control while false curtain walls were installed at the north ends of each platform, shortening them by 10 to 15 feet, though the Brooklyn-bound platform is longer than the Queens-bound one.
  • 23rd Street — Removed crossunder on uptown side outside fare control, closed crossunder at 22nd Street
  • 8th Street-NYU — Closed crossunder at southern end
  • Rector Street — False wall placed at north ends of platforms during 1970s renovation. Abandoned space on the southbound side can be seen from the northbound platform. (Closed entrance?)
  • Whitehall Street — At the north end, there is a part-time exit and a closed mezzanine
  • [2] — Closed crossunder

Newly constructed entrances

  • Saratoga Avenue This station has an extra exit from the southbound platform bypassing the fare control, which was used for PM rush exit only. I think I read about this somewhere
  • Lex/59 In October 1973, a platform extension eastward opened, along with a new exit to 3rd Avenue and 60th Street.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 17:00, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did any of these entrances close at the time?[edit]

@Mtattrain: In November 1991, the MTA Board approved the closure 23 High Entrance Turnstiles, and the materials stated that in some areas, the control areas where the HET's are now will be closed entirely. Do you know which ones were being referred to? I suspect some of the ones at Broad, but what do you think?--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 17:48, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

> Possibly the ones at Wall St, but other than that I think the entrances were kept open or reopened. Mtattrain (talk) 19:56, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

65 Broadway[edit]

@Kew Gardens 613 and Mtattrain: The page says there were entrances to the 65 Broadway building from both Wall Street station (IRT Lexington Avenue Line) and Rector Street station (BMT Broadway Line). I can believe the former, but not so much the latter. From what I'm seeing, the basement level of this building is at the same level as Trinity Place, so there would have needed to be another staircase from Rector Street.

Also, very interesting how both stations' entrances are located right outside the building directly to the north. epicgenius (talk) 01:06, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

> There is a stair, which I think exists on street level but as an emergency exit from the passage to 65 Broadway from the IRT station. I'm doubtful that there was an exit from the BMT station though. Mtattrain (talk) 01:10, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Mtattrain, cool, thanks. I did not know that about the IRT station. I also doubt the BMT entrance existed - it doesn't make sense given the height of the basement. epicgenius (talk) 02:24, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Mtattrain and Epicgenius: I read about that entrance on subchat and found two sources showing the BMT entrance existed.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 13:03, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Kew Gardens 613: Interesting, thanks. Would you happen to have sources showing that the IRT entrance existed? By the way, I definitely know there was a connection to the elevated Rector Street station (IRT Sixth Avenue Line). epicgenius (talk) 14:16, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
> The BMT part seems to have been suspended and/or cancelled. Mtattrain (talk) 14:45, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Mtattrain, that's strange. Anyway, I just added to the 65 Broadway article, detailing the proposed entrance to the BMT, which may or may not have even existed. epicgenius (talk) 15:23, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Mtattrain and Epicgenius: It existed, it just might not have been used.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 15:25, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Kew Gardens 613, thanks for the clarification. I should have used that as a source earlier. epicgenius (talk) 16:30, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Epicgenius: No problem.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 17:57, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

125th Street station[edit]

@Mtattrain: Nice find from that RFW video. Does this mean that the 1981 changes did take place? If so, then the 127th Street entrances must have reopened at some point. If the 1981 changes were not implemented, it means that the 126th Street exits reopened at different date. It is weird that the entrance closed after 2001. Are you sure that it wasn't only a platform stair that was closed in the 2008 photo? The station's renovation occurred in the 1980s, and cannot see any reason why the entrnace would have been closed around this time.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 13:40, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

> Actually now that I think about it the 126th St entrances stayed closed, but there was a super big mezzanine before it got cut down in the late 2000s. Mtattrain (talk) 15:44, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

140 Broadway[edit]

@Kew Gardens 613 and Mtattrain: Pages 5 and 10 of this document says there was a subway entrance at Cedar and Nassau streets, outside 140 Broadway, which was sealed by 1999. Would either of you happen to know which station this led to? Thanks in advance. epicgenius (talk) 21:26, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Epicgenius: Broad Street. That is a useful source. Thanks!--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 22:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Updates to the list[edit]

@Mtattrain: Do you know when the 50th Street/Lex entrance reopened? --Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 12:01, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

> I do not, but it seems to be around 2018-2019. The whole lobby was under construction (via Google Maps) from 2014-2018ish, so the exit was only temporarily closed. Mtattrain (talk) 18:16, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: I found a document that might confirm that the entrances on the south side of Flatbush Avenue, between Atlantic Avenue and Pacific Street were open on Page 7-32 and 7-33. What do you make of these paragraphs?--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 14:59, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

> Wow, nice find. That is definitely the right area.

@Kew Gardens 613: check the ACCESS drive. I updated my compiled Excel so most of the stairs should be listed now, some with numbers and control area numbers. Mtattrain (talk) 01:24, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: I am somewhat confused about the Hoyt/Schermerhorn entrances. When you have a chance, can you add the stair case numbers to the proper entrance in the table? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 00:52, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

> done Mtattrain (talk) 17:22, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: Do you know where the entrances on Grand Concourse and Kingsbridge Road between the two directions led on the street? I don't see them in the 1954, 1966 or 1980 aerial maps.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 23:44, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Mtattrain: Also, do you have any idea where the closed 174th Street exit led to on street level?--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 00:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
> For Kingsbridge, two went to the underpass, I would like to think to platforms that once served trolleys that are now gone, and one went to the south side of the underpass. The 174th St exit went to the opposite side of the one that is on Grand Concourse above 174. Mtattrain (talk) 02:11, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Mtattrain: Some closed exits are in the station diagram for Wall Street here. I cannot exactly match the ones on the list to the ones in the diagram to add to the list. Can you take a look at this when you have a chance? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 20:14, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
> It doesn't show too much besides an exit to Thames St, which I think I pinpointed on Carto. Mtattrain (talk) 21:20, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Mtattrain: Here is one for [Atlantic Avenue https://s3.amazonaws.com/NARAprodstorage/lz/electronic-records/rg-079/NPS_NY/04001023.pdf].--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 20:24, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
> Looks like the one for Atlantic Ave shows an entirely closed off fare control area, which had one exit to next to the headhouse. It also seems to show what the east end underpass looked like before it was rebuilt into the current exit to Barclays Center. I think I see a Hanson Pl exit from the Brighton Line that was eventually replaced with a larger exit. Mtattrain (talk) 21:20, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

>@Kew Gardens 613: upon closer inspection, I see the following:

  • IRT S1/S3 to SW corner of Atlantic Ave & Flatbush Ave, which we listed. S1 remains a trapdoor, but S3 is slabbed.
  • IRT S2/S4 to SE corner of Atlantic Ave & Flatbush Ave. We had S4 listed, but I had no idea about S2. In any case, both are demolished now.
  • BMT S6 to next to the headhouse, which you have listed. It is demolished now because of the bigger passage to the D/N/R.
  • The IRT headhouse, which has had its mezzanine demolished because of the bigger passage to the D/N/R.

Hope that helps. Mtattrain (talk) 23:16, 20 June 2020 (UTC) @Mtattrain: Where did you get the information that the Clinton Hall entrance at Astor Place closed in the 1940s? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 12:50, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

> I think on Untapped Cities. Mtattrain (talk) 16:25, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kew Gardens 613: how did you get the September 2005 board meeting PDF? I can't seem to open it.

@Mtattrain: https://nysl.ptfs.com/awweb/pdfopener?md=1&did=63541 --Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:05, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Mtattrain: Based on the Carto, I suspected there was a closed exit at 14th, but could not find anything about it. Thanks for adding it!--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 21:04, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
> I got a diagram from a friend, and saw a subway hatch on streetview, no problem. Mtattrain (talk) 21:39, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Mtattrain: The Carto seems to show that there might be a closed easement entrance at 76 Eighth Avenue. Do you think this doorway was it?--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 21:59, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
> Don't think so, I think that's just for the higher floors of the building. Mtattrain (talk) 18:12, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: Do you know whether there is anything at Gun Hill Road on the 5. Nycsubway.org says this There is an extra closed exit from the northbound platform's north end apparently leading to the fare control but no evidence was found upstairs for this stairway, leading to a theory of a high exit in the "second mezzanine"--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:06, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

> Nope, if anything the renovation probably took down that exit anyway Mtattrain (talk) 18:09, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: Two things. First, I don't think the entrance at the NW corner of Union Turnpike and Queens Boulevard was actually built. Aerial photos show no trace of it, and I have walked past that area dozens of times, and there is no trace of anything. In addition, the photo of the entrance archway in the western underpass does not line up with the entrance structure shown on the CartoMap and in the source layer that it comes from. There is something weird going on there. Second, do you know why we didn't add the Suffolk Street entrances earlier? And, related, where did we get the information that the entrances at Norfolk were temporarily reopened during 1999? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

> Maybe the Union Tpke entrance was unfinished or unbuilt; I don't have a diagram for that yet. I glanced over Suffolk by accident. I think the Norfolk entrance reopening in 1999 came from Subchat or Facebook. Mtattrain (talk) 13:37, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Union Tpke certainly was not built. If possible, could you try to find where you got the information about Norfolk? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 13:38, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
>@Kew Gardens 613: finally found sources for the mez at Norfolk.
[3] - used in 1989
[4] - used during Williamsburg Bridge reconstruction Mtattrain (talk) 06:03, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: Why did you say the entrances at Rivington were open in the 1960s?--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 00:08, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

> @Kew Gardens 613: That is based on an anecdotal comment regarding the Rivington entrance on the Facebook post about them. Someone else mentions "2000" but I highly doubt that. Mtattrain (talk) 00:33, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The thing is, the entrances did not exist based on photos from 1940. While it is possible they opened later, it is unlikely. For the entrance at the SW corner to be open, it would have had to block a doorway to a business.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 11:21, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
> I am hearing that Broome may have never opened. Not sure about Rivington though. Mtattrain (talk) 14:05, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GE Building 570 Lexington Avenue[edit]

I found something interesting about the entrance to the Lexington Avenue/51st Street station at the General Electric Building, 570 Lexington Ave. To this page, I've already added the fact that there was a basement entrance that was sealed at some point in the past. However, it seems like the GE Building entrance itself replaced a street level entrance to the IRT, so the current street staircase is likely not even the original one. The plans also called for a direct passageway to the IND as well, although the GE Building is on the west side of the avenue and the current IND passageway is on the east side. Just thought you guys might know something about this. epicgenius (talk) 15:53, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Epicgenius: Thank you so much for pinging entrances you have found in the course of your amazing and thorough research on buildings in Manhattan. I just found out that the GE Building entrance was replaced by another entrance in 1965. The citation is in the list, but Google Books, like Google Docs, Youtube, and Gmail, is currently down. I will add the original staircase to the list, but I will likely create a list of replaced entrances at some point; a lot of Manhattan stations had their entrances moved from the sidewalk to within buildings since the 1961 rezoning.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 12:24, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Early IND closures[edit]

@Mtattrain: I didn't add dates to those early closures since those were only originally part-time. It wouldn't surprise me if they closed full time sometime afterwards, but we need more evidence for that. Here is an article that mentions part-time closures.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 10:35, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

> Can you copy the text from that article? @Kew Gardens 613: I am not subscribed to NYT. Mtattrain (talk) 17:00, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

50th Street[edit]

@Mtattrain: Do you know anything about this? During the construction of the Worldwide Plaza complex in the 1980s, a closed fare control area was opened up and an original wooden token booth found inside. This was fixed up and is now in service on the downtown lower level platform.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 16:03, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

> That must be the southbound 49th St fare control area. Mtattrain (talk) 17:52, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Mtattrain: More about the project can be found here.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:53, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

SE 34th St Stair 2[edit]

@Kew Gardens 613: the entrance associated with Hotel Alpin is just the second street stair to the SE corner of 34 St and Broadway, according to the BOT Google book snippet. Mtattrain (talk) 15:50, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wall Street 2/3[edit]

@Mtattrain: I found an old diagram of Wall Street with the closed Pine Street entrances.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:03, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

> @Kew Gardens 613: interesting, do you have a pic of the whole thing? I can only load snippets seemingly Mtattrain (talk) 19:45, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did you click on the snippet-this is a full text document.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:49, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
> Wow that worked, now I know how to do that lol. Mtattrain (talk) 19:54, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
> Looks like there are a good amount of now-demolished entrances too, probably after the blocks were reconstructed. @Kew Gardens 613: Mtattrain (talk) 22:01, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

304 Park Avenue South[edit]

@Kew Gardens 613 and Mtattrain: I found an article talking about a broad underground passageway next to this building (no article yet, but the building's on the NRHP, so it's most likely notable). The passageway provided an exit from the 23rd Street station to the building and to the southern side of 23rd Street between Park Avenue South and Madison Avenue. Would either of you happen to know anything about the fate of this passageway? Thanks. Epicgenius (talk) 19:17, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Epicgenius: Nice find. I can take a look.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 20:55, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Provisions for second staircases[edit]

@Epicgenius and Mtattrain: This is from the November 2020 ERA Bulletin, This design is a precursor to a common feature subsequently employed at stations built in the 1930s throughout the IND system, the provision for a future second street stair from the intermediate landing. I didn't know this was done, but explains why a second staircase to Queens Boulevard and 80th Road is shown on NYC BOT blueprints for the construction of the subway in the area in my possession. This is something that could use more research.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 20:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Kew Gardens 613: what page are you referring to in the linked text Mtattrain (talk) 20:45, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Mtattrain: Page 3.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 22:36, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Things to clear up[edit]

  • Were the 1982 changes at Jackson Heights/Roosevelt ever made?
  • Did the entrance at the SW corner of South Portland and Lafayette happen in 1985?

--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:56, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Templates broken[edit]

@Epicgenius: It seems I have exceeded the maximum number of templates, meaning the reflist template was broken. Do you have any advice on how to fix this? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 20:47, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Kew Gardens 613, I feared this might happen. We may need to split out each of the tables into their own subpages. This isn't ideal as we would need to maintain duplicate sets of references, but the vast majority of the reference templates are in these tables. In the meantime, I converted the reflist to a manual <references /> tag, which should keep most of the references displayed for a while until a more permanent solution is found. – Epicgenius (talk) 01:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Epicgenius: In the back of my head, I had a feeling this would happen at some point. There is some reference consolidation I could do. Could transcluding some of this from another page work? Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 02:15, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think transclusions also count against the post-expand include size. So even if the individual articles don't exceed the template limit on their own, they will exceed the limit once they are transcluded back here. – Epicgenius (talk) 02:25, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is apparently also an issue for List of bus routes in Queens. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 02:30, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. For the Queens Bus Routes article, I was thinking that the history tables may have to be split out. – Epicgenius (talk) 02:48, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I always wanted to create a History of bus routes in Queens article, and have some stuff in User:Kew Gardens 613/sandbox 4. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 02:52, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Epicgenius: I finally split some of this to User:Kew Gardens 613/List of unopened subway entrances, User:Kew Gardens 613/History of closed New York City Subway entrances, and User:Kew Gardens 613/List of reopened New York City Subway entrances. 1,028 references was too many, and I am up to 980, so that isn't much breathing room. I would really rather not split it by borough. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 00:16, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Kew Gardens 613, the new subpages look good. Unfortunately, we may need to divide these tables by borough anyway, as that may be the best way to divide these tables evenly. Currently, this page is still at 90 percent of the post-expand include size (1,805,622/2,097,152 bytes), and if I recall correctly, that 2.1-million-byte limit is a hardcoded limit. – Epicgenius (talk) 00:40, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Majestic (apartment building)[edit]

Is there a closed entrance from the 72nd Street station (IND Eighth Avenue Line) to the basement of this building (Central Park West between 71st and 72nd Streets)? This news article (which requires a New York Public Library card) indicates that a subway entrance was planned for the apartment building when it was constructed in 1930-1931. Does anyone know if such an entrance was ever built? If the entrance was indeed open at some point, it is now closed, but I don't know if such an entrance even existed. – Epicgenius (talk) 12:59, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Epicgenius:, @QueensBlvdTransitway: found that there is a provision for a doorway to The Majestic. I also found that there was a proposal to close one of the two easement entrances in the Hearst Tower (Manhattan). Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 15:34, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Kew Gardens 613, that is interesting. Thanks for the heads-up, and thanks to QueensBlvdTransitway for finding this. – Epicgenius (talk) 15:47, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

36th Street[edit]

@BenTheMiner: Are you sure there were different exits leading up from the southern mezzanine? Thanks. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 22:31, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The original southern mezzanine definitely existed in the southern section of the original station. I asked my friends who are also interested in this information and they told me that it led to the south side. I don't have a source for this yet. Apologies for the late reply. BenTheMiner (talk) 00:06, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! So they got as far as building street entrances, interesting. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 02:41, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification on Bleecker Street's closed/relocated staircases[edit]

I'm wondering if the part about Bleecker Street's closed/relocated staircases at the western corners of Bleecker Street and Lafayette Street should be elaborated on. I figured out how the staircases were by myself, but it took a bit of digging. I think it should mention how there were originally two entrances facing the same way for both corners, but both corners got one of the two entrances sealed and the other one was reoriented.

By the way, the reference to the page about this at UNUSED NYC SUBWAY was taken down, and I don't think that page mentioned how there were two entrances with one closed and one reoriented anyway. I can provide my own website (work in a progress) and the images I used here for you to use as your new references if you'd like. BenTheMiner (talk) 03:22, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Never mind, the page was moved to another link: http://indsecondsystem.weebly.com/broadway-lafayette-st-bleecker-st.html
My point and offer still stands, though. BenTheMiner (talk) 03:33, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Reference fixed! BenTheMiner (talk) 00:11, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

More on closed sections at Bway-Lafayette/Bleecker Street[edit]

Bway Lafayette western mezzanine closure range:

January 26th, 1989 - 1997

https://historicfilms.com/a754 00:33:XX timestamp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMgrIXZBBMk


Bleecker staircase reorientation range:

1939 - April 29th, 1988

https://nycma.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/NYCMA~5~5~178429~492984:55-63-Bleecker-Street

https://nycma.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/NYCMA~5~5~178430~492983:65-69-Bleecker-Street

https://historicfilms.com/96b2 00:33:XX timestamp BenTheMiner (talk) 02:55, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Outstanding finds! Thank you so much. Feel free to edit the list itself. The historicfilms site is amazing. Thanks! Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 15:56, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure how to add references just yet... Sorry! BenTheMiner (talk) 18:02, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure how to edit the layout of tables either... BenTheMiner (talk) 02:33, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Updated the table! BenTheMiner (talk) 02:25, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect reference used for 182nd-183rd Streets[edit]

Reference 863 shows the active entrance at the NW corner of East 182nd Street and Grand Concourse, not East 183rd Street. Compare the image to the present day NW corner of East 182nd Street and Grand Concourse. BenTheMiner (talk) 18:04, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just noticed reference numbers changed based on the list... oops. Let me go remove the reference. BenTheMiner (talk) 00:13, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Broadway Junction closure dates[edit]

The Conway Street mezzanine and exits at Broadway Junction closed in 1971 or 1972. There's a photo that shows the staircase to the mezzanine blocked off: https://nycsubway.org/perl/show?150775

The Eastern Parkway mezzanine and exits at Broadway Junction did NOT close in 1988. The booklet used as the reference mentions that they made it closed part time during the hours mentioned. There is a station sign that points to the exits in 1989 so it was still open in 1989: https://nycsubway.org/perl/show?150297 However, the staircases to the mezzanine seem to be gated off in 1994: https://nycsubway.org/perl/show?127900

Could someone revise the list for me? I'm not sure how to edit references. BenTheMiner (talk) 00:59, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed! BenTheMiner (talk) 02:07, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Additions[edit]

Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 17:48, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add removal two stairways at Union Square (https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015057040241&view=1up&seq=79&q1=stairway), replaced by new entrance. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:20, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I might have discovered a removed entrance at the SE corner of 233rd/White Plains Road. Compare this and this. There is no entrance for the SW corner. No southern side entrances for 233rd (https://new.mta.info/sites/default/files/2018-04/233%20St%20%282%29%285%29%20web.pdf), interestingly. Interestingly, a private individual proposed paying for an additional stairway from the NE corner-apparently provided for in initial plans (https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015057040241&view=1up&seq=1382&q1=stairway, https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015057040258&view=1up&seq=398&q1=STAIRWAY, https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015057040266&view=1up&seq=1470&q1=233RD%20STREET).
I also discovered one for the SE corner of 225th/WPR. Compare this with this and this. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 20:22, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And 167th (https://twitter.com/Union_Tpke/status/1643034817574113280) Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 20:11, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

M7 Limited Removal Info[edit]

Howdy!

Would you happen to have more pages for this topic at hand or do you know if the Bryant Park Library still has access to said info?

Edit: This is from the May 1994 Transit Committee Agenda. IND Concourse Express (talk) 04:46, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reminder[edit]

Note: reopening proposed Eastern Parkway http://web.mta.info/capitaldashboard/allframenew_head.html?PROJNUM=t7041353&PLTYPE=1&DISPLAYALL=Y Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 14:36, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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