User talk:Simon Adler/Archive 1

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Sentry duty

Since it's a bit OT to Gatling gun, I'm answering here. Yep, Lone Sentry is useful. I've already done a bit on the M3 HT, & will finish later, & expect to do more elsewhere. Plus it's useful for off-WP. :D TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 22:38, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

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You don't know me

Thank you for your good wishes--It is means a LOT, you have no idea! The only thing worse than fighting this cancer is warring with an HMO. Please pop in anytime!

  • Fond regards

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I have fixed all three. Thanks for the tip off, oh great Bot. Irondome (talk) 16:06, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Regarding your POV push

I took up your POV pushes in this talk page about Netanyahu. You are welcome to discuss it both here and there.

You also reverted the article about The Armored Corps Memorial Site and Museum at Latrun. According to who are Latrun in Israel? --IRISZOOM (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:03, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Israel. Which is an important point. A line after which balances that statement by saying "although Israel legally and officially disputes this" may be a possible compromise. Your POV stance is obvious. Irondome (talk) 02:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
I have no "POV stance".
What do you mean with "legally"? What ever we do shall not change the fact that Latrun is seen by the international community as a part of the West Bank. And a "compromise" must be based on fact and after a disussion - not edit wars. Try to think about that. --IRISZOOM (talk) 02:28, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
But it is not legally recognised in Israeli law. That must be reflected. At the moment it is not. My opinion as to your POV/NPOV will be judged on our future collaboration. If you wish to work constructively, then wonderful. You will obviously be weighing my POV/NPOV nuances also. I am happy for dialogue. We shall see. Cheers Irondome (talk) 02:35, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
The Supreme Court of Israel has several times ruled that West Bank is under occupation. But if you want to add that Israel administrates Latrun there is no problem with that as long that it's clear that it's not a part of Israel. But your edit was wrong and cannot be accepted. --IRISZOOM (talk) 02:55, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

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October 2013

I think you were slightly too fast on the template draw there, Andy. I have already proposed a compromise and added northwood to see also, which is much the better option. I proposed recourse to talk in my explaination tag, which you appear to have overlooked. I will be removing this from my talkpage. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 01:20, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

A comment from Jonathan

Hi. This is Jonathan from Virginia. I have ordered Healy's book on Kursk. After I read his entire statement and accompanying analysis I will let you know what I think of the assertion that Prokharovka was a tactical victory for the Germans. My current belief is that it certainly was not. Prokharovka did not result in any territorial gain for the Germans, who called off the whole offensive after a few days and then withdrew. A tactical victory should result in some measurable improvement on the ground for the side that allegedly won the victory. If the Nazis had been able to hold onto Orel and Belgorod after Prokharovka then one could argue that casualties suffered by the USSR were a tactical victory. But in fact Prokharovka blunted the German attack. The Russians dug in afterwards and the Nazis never made it to Prokharovka. Nor could the Nazis afterward even hold their original July 4 lines. 71.191.213.248 (talk) 03:09, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Hello Jonathan. I respect your argument, but you must know from the article history how much bickering and wasted bytes have been consumed just on us being at this point. One should remember that P was but an "incident" (I know the term is grossly inadequate) in the larger Kursk battle, in which the nazi German forces were defeated, thwarted in their objective, and made vulnerable to the major counterattacks staged by the Red army almost immediately after. If P is described as a local, temporary tactical victory, it removes nothing from the larger victory. I would be first to intervene if I suspected any POV, but I can assure there is none that I have encountered or suspected. It is mainstream historical consensus, and it is merely being reflected here. Sorry for my delay in answering you, but I have some Real life off-WP stresses at the moment. Happy editing! And DO register! Irondome (talk) 18:25, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCI, October 2013

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Suburban Express Bounty

Suburban Express has changed the expiration date and terms of the bounty to address your concerns. Thank you for your post in the Administrator's Noticeboard. 99.147.28.113 (talk) 22:45, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

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Whisperback

You have new message/s Hello. You have a new message at Kudpung's talk page. 02:55, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Scope and title for Bisexuality in the Arab world

During the recent AfD for Bisexuality in the Arab world (closed as 'keep') you will either have seen opinions expressed to expand the scope of the article, or voiced that opinion yourself. I am placing this notice on the talk pages of all who expressed an opinion of whatever type in that deletion discussion to invite you to participate in a discussion on article scope and title at Talk:Bisexuality in the Arab world. You are cordially invited to participate. By posting this message I am not seeking to influence your opinion one way or another. Fiddle Faddle 10:27, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up Tim. I will be over to contribute. Hope all is ok with you. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 23:35, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
Looking forward to your input. Life could always be better, of course. Fiddle Faddle 23:49, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
Glad i'm not the only one :/ Irondome (talk) 00:00, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Korma

You reverted my edits twice without talking. Read the article and the photo description.--عبد المؤمن (talk) 13:32, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

I have read both. The term Kavurma meaning cooked meat. And you provide a perfectly accurate image of just that. A bowl of cooked meat. However apart from a root-word linkage with korma, there is no resemblance to Korma the curried dish. I would suggest the image is better off in another article, as it looks more like a hashed meat (Fr Hachee). Other eds will remove it, and they may be a lot less polite and willing to discuss than I. I suggest we resolve this here, or the article talk page itself. Cheers Irondome (talk) 18:01, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
it is called korma. Korma is only a curry in indian culture. Cognate dishes exist in turkish and persian cultures which differ from the curry. So the problem is the article content, not the real world. --عبد المؤمن (talk) 04:54, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

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Admin reconfirm

Hi, saw your message at Kudpung's talk. Traditionally it's been very difficult to place any sort of limits on admin. The inactivity limit was something I campaigned hard for and met with limited success, but I guess it planted the seed because something did eventually get put in place. I think it may get even harder to do a sort of reconfirmation as the wiki grows far larger than the number of active admin-type users. I'm more in favor of something like User:Gigs/Administrative covenant, a non-revocable commitment to recall. Gigs (talk) 15:19, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated. There appears to be a good discussion ongoing as to the various options. Periodic re-election is sounding more problematic in terms of logistical and ancient grudge-type issues. I am suprised at the different systems pertaining on different Wikis. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 21:52, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
Just in case you weren't aware of it, there is more on this at Wikipedia:RfA reform (continued)/Voter profiles#Comparison RfA other Wikipedias. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:59, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
Excellent. Thanks! I always appreciate your ability to pull relevant stuff from the shelf Irondome (talk) 20:49, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
Talkpage stalker swoops in... to suggest that the recall/desysop/etc of inactive admins, like adminship itself, is No Big Deal... at least in the medium-to-long-run. Not that I don't fully support the de-poison-ization of RfA, and (depending on implementation details) the concept of non-repudiable recall-mechanism-agreement, and even the auto-desysop-after-N-years.
  But there is a bigger picture, mathematically slash wikiPolitically speaking. We have ~600 active admins (defined by WMF as "contributing 15+edits/month" in the reportcard website), and about 800 less-than-that-amout-of-active-ness admins. Our active-admins are drawn from the ~31k active editors (differently defined as 5+edits/mo aka one edit per week or so). We have somewhere north of 200M unique *visitors* aka readers to just enWiki, per month. Rather than concentrating on reform-of-adminship with an eye to tweaking how we treat the 30 frontline super-active admins, the 600 reasonably-active admins, and the 800 not-very-active admins... instead I suggest we focus on retaining (starting the upward trend now but not hitting these numbers until a few years from now) around a million active 5+edits/mo editors, plus reforming the admin-related stuff with a particular laser-eye-focus towards getting "new" editors that are good eggs through RfA.
  Point being, if in the next two years we grow from 31k editors to 42k editors... not at all infeasible based on current churn data... rather than shrinking to 27k as the trendline suggests, we will have around SIX THOUSAND 'new' editors with a year of solid experience under their belts. Even if only 10% of those folks are, morally speaking, Good Eggs, and get addicted enough to have 5k edits and the rest of kudpung's criteria satisified by December 2015... that is still 600 fresh-new-blood-recruits suitable for getting the admin-bit... *double* what we have now.
  Repeat the same process in 2016, 2017... pretty soon we have 10k or 20k admins, vastly dwarfing the ~1400 old-school folks with the admin-bit, and this vast majority of 'beginner' Good Eggs were chosen through the new&improved process invented in 2013. The trick is, inventing the process 'today' (it will be disastrous if we cannot keep out Bad Eggs), and then 'tomorrow' working to reverse the downward slope of the retention-trend for beginning editors. Hope this helps. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 11:08, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

dolphin sub

Hello Irondome, you can call me 74, noticed your request for assistance over at the Kudpung page. I will gently repeat what Kudpung said, remember pillar four. The problem here is purely and only WP:RS, and you are adding gasoline when you use loaded words like 'propaganda' and such. We must really really assume good faith... not just because Jimbo said so... but also because our CIA handlers demand it.  :-)   Anyways, I fully realize it is frustrating to be accused of such things, and to meet with edit-war with folks trying to WP:RGW, who are not yet savvy in the five bazillion wikiPolicies, but keep calm and carry on.


My second suggestion is more practical, and more shocking: I think we should put the sentence in, with proper context, per WP:FRINGE. We just need to find some sources that are Notable, which I have done, and then explain to the reader exactly what is going on here. The sentence that 108 and JpLeonard are trying to insert into the article... and have already inserted into other articles... is being used on the internet, and while that is not enough, there are some places that have paid editorial boards. We just need to specify exactly what kind of places, and further specify that the report is *not* yet verified by anywhere *except* those kind of places. Let me know if I am making any sense here, and please add Syrian Navy to your watchlist. (Anons cannot have watchlists... one of the few restrictions that stings.) Hope this helps, thanks for improving wikipedia. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 12:28, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Your opinion is valued at WikiProject Breakfast

Please see Want to be a guinea pig for Flow?. XOttawahitech (talk) 17:04, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You could also click on the signature button or located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when they said it. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 22:51, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

I came. I saw. I signed. Everywhere I have lain my grubby hands so far. :/ Irondome (talk) 23:05, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry about my edit on the Six-Day War. I was editing the wrong article.Chipperdude15 (talk) 03:41, 18 November 2013 (UTC) 20:41, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

No worries at all. Thanks for coming over. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 03:52, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCII, November 2013

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Whisperback

You have new message/s Hello. You have a new message at Kudpung's talk page. 18:05, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

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Glad Tidings and all that ...

FWiW Bzuk (talk) 00:44, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

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Amoz Oz

Hey, maybe you meant to put your comment in the section above, which is for choosing between A and B? I set up the other section in case people want to discuss things in more depth... maybe the layout wasn't clear?— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 02:18, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Understood and done. Layout was fine, it was me being unable to grasp basic instructions :/. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 02:36, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

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You've got mail!

Hello, Simon Adler. Please check your email; you've got mail!
Message added 19:49, 13 April 2014 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

DBigXray 19:49, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Greetings from India

 A plate of Butter chicken for you
Here is a plate of Butter chicken for you. Butter chicken, which is also called Murgh Makhani is an Indian non-veg food that originated in the restaurant Moti Mahal Delux of Delhi. Best Wishes from India from an old friend
Thank you.

DBigXray 20:01, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

For more Indian dishes, visit the Kitchen of WikiProject India.

Award

This editor is a
Yeoman Editor
and is entitled to display this Service Badge.
This editor is a Grognard Extraordinaire and is entitled to display this Wikipedia Vest Pocket Edition.

For Completing almost 2 years and more than 5000 edits on wiki, You are hereby awarded the Yeoman Editor Service Award. Keep up the good work bro. --DBigXray 21:18, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

My Revert

Not sure but you must have got a notification saying I reverted your edit! It was this mass edit...nothing wrong done by you..:) BTW Thanks for that edit! India never had 12 A-50 Cheers, ƬheStrikeΣagle sorties 05:18, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

A Plate of Hyderabadi Dosa

 A plate of Dosa for you
Here is a plate of Dosa for you. Dosa is a South Indian food and is a fermented crepe or pancake made from rice batter and black lentils. Hope you'll like it. Thanks for helping protect Indian Armed Forces articles from vandalism and unsourced edits! Greatly appreciated!
Thank you.

ƬheStrikeΣagle sorties 15:46, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

For more Indian dishes, visit the Kitchen of WikiProject India.

Thanks so much SE! Looks awesome :) Always glad to be of assistance Irondome (talk) 19:10, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Did you check your Mail

wanted to talk to you on IRC or chat. let me know if you can spare some time . I have mailed on your email u gave on Wiki. regards :) --DBigXray 11:05, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

That would be good mate. Just been going through watchlist stuff, and will check emails now. No IM access unfortunataly. Will expand in mail. May take a couple of hours, just got to pop out to shops. Cheers bro :) Irondome (talk) 16:00, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCVII, April 2014

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A barnstar for you!

The Surreal Barnstar
I award you this Barnstar for kind words to a good administrator, and for praising her on Jimbo's talk page. If we ever meet face-to-face, I will buy you a drink. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 03:14, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Thank you so much :) A beer or 3 would be good, and I am sure BHG would join us too! Kind regards Irondome (talk) 03:24, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
We have a deal, then. Please pick a place that serves pitchers. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 03:46, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Deal bro. I know a place that serves oildrums :D. I had an ancestor who tragically drowned in an industrial beer vat. It was a slow death sadly. The coroner found that he had got out 205 times to take a leak. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 04:00, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
OK, now, I know that you are joking, but this is the truth: I had an ancestor who was a lumberjack. When I found his gravestone, I learned that he had drowned. Dangerous work. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:20, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Wow. Dont know the details, but many lumber camps were near fast flowing rivers, the logs would transport themselves. The guys would ride makeshift vast rafts of them to guide them downstream. That may explain it. Research it! I would be seriously interested. Regards Irondome (talk) 04:30, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

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Thanks

Thanks for your encouraging notes, Irondome. They are much appreciated! Gunbirddriver (talk) 19:21, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

No worries at all GBD. You always do good work man, So I believe in praise where praise is due. We have always worked well together too. Happy edding! Irondome (talk) 19:35, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

NOTNOW?

As it's directed toward users who are new or have only limited experience, I'm not sure the WP:NOTNOW essay really applies to a user who has 1.3 million edits to enwp. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 22:22, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Certainly, but I see notnow as a behavioural indicator as much as a pure edits/time served on WP. The candidate may have 1.3 million eds, but does that mean he can handle shit hitting the fan at 3am with some bad guys? Just my thoughts Irondome (talk) 22:28, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Pretty sure WP:NOTNOTNOW is relevant here. Theopolisme (talk) 22:34, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Good advice colleagues. I have amended my objections. Irondome (talk) 22:45, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

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Sent you a reply

Don't know if you are alerted to my response to your message automatically, so just letting you know :)

(Plus, I accidentally edited your profile, not your talk page - sorry - it's changed back). Christian Ankerstjerne (talk) 21:58, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Please set up archiving

Please set up WP:Archiving or seek help --DBigXray 19:58, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

I know DBX. (Red face). Should have done it months ago as you urged. An urgent to - do. 24-36 hrs. Irondome (talk) 23:23, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
Hello, my friend. If you need help with it, please just say. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:14, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
I think I do Anna. I have added a bot (the second one on the list of recommended bots) and I tried to set the parameters. I assume that will automatically start archieving, but it will not deal with the huge backlog of stuff which is unarchieved. Im thinking I will have to manually archieve those. :(. Anyway, my mind is no longer thinking well and clearly, so will have to stop for tonight. Your kind offer is appreciated Anna. Only when you have a few minutes though. It looks unprofessional and I am very aware of it. Kindest regards from Irondome (talk) 22:03, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCVIII, May 2014

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Curtiss planes in 1933 and 2005 King Kong films

Hi, Irondome. You reverted my edit on King Kong (2005 film), but in fact... you're wrong. The variant used in both films (1933 and 2005) was not a fighter and was not the original Falcon, but one of the derived Helldiver variants, the F8C-5 or O2C-1.

Just check Curtiss Helldiver:

  • Curtiss Helldiver may refer to the following aircraft: F8C Helldiver, reconnaissance and bomber biplane of the 1920s

Or check Curtiss Falcon:

  • U.S. Navy variants were used initially as fighter-bombers with the designation F8C Falcon, then as the first U.S. Marine Corps dive bombers with the name Helldiver
  • The F8C-4 Helldiver variant initially saw service with the Navy, and the first production batch of 25 was transferred in 1931 to the Marine Corps. A total of 34 F8Cs redesignated as O2C-1 observation aircraft were also transferred to the Naval Reserve in 1931, serving with squadrons VN-10RD9, VN-11RD9, and VN-12RD9. Most of the 63 newer F8C-5/O2C-1 Helldivers also served with the Marines, remaining in service until 1936. The type was featured in a number of Hollywood films: Flight (1929), Hell Divers (1932) and King Kong, both the classic 1933 movie and the 2005 remake.

Regards. Kintaro (talk) 22:24, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi again. Let me show you some links I just found on the internet:
That latter, number 15, is from The Making of King Kong: The Official Guide to the Motion Picture. I don't own the book, but it seems it confirms that the planes were Helldiver fighter-bombers... Cheers... 23:19, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
Hi Kintaro. Firstly may I say that I appreciate your approach and tone as a fellow Wikipedian.

Now to the meat :). the 9th Operations Group appears to be the mostly likely candidate as the unit in question. It was based at Mitchel Field NY, making its I.D even more positive. At this point the unit was using the Curtiss O-1B Falcon. This is not the Navy/Marine Helldiver. Furthermore the role of the unit was recce, which at the time also meant persuit duties. At no point does the unit or its role or indeed its location lead to a confusion with the Navy/Marine divebombing role. Even the units nominclature were radically different, and were stationed in Hawaii and Lousiniana (?). I think you are ID'ing the wrong type and formations. Respectfully Irondome (talk) 23:30, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi again... and to the meat again :) Just read again Curtiss Falcon:
  • F8C-5 Helldiver [...] Model 49B with ring cowling; 63 built in 1930–31, later designated O2C-1.
So, this model, the one with the ring cowling, is exactly the one used in the 1933 and 2005 movies... as Peter Jackson, indeed, wanted an exact copy of the plane used in the 1933 version. Just watch again the movies and compare with historical photographs and data.
Plus, following King Kong (1933 film), the reference Making of King Kong: The Story Behind a Film Classic pretends that the take off of the planes was shot in 1932 in a base located in Long Island. I'm a European and never went to the United States... but isn't there, in today's Long Island, an airport or airfield?
Cheers! Kintaro (talk) 00:23, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
Indeed Kintaro, its called Mitchel Field which is in fact on Long Island. Please notice the very first photo in the Curtiss Falcon article shows an A3 later converted to the curtiss O-1B Falcon. It has precisely the same ring cowling as in both films, down to what appears to be twin Lewis guns So citing from the article sub-variants seems to be fruitless. I would suggest you are mixing up nominclatures of what are in fact almost indistinguishable sub-types. A major point would also appear to be the branch of service. These appear army aircraft. Only the Marine/Naval aviation branch designated the Falcon the Helldiver. Indeed the tradition persisted to the Helldiver of Midway fame. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 01:23, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
Ok then for the airfield... but, of course, the Helldivers I was talking about were not the Curtiss SBC Helldiver or the Curtiss SB2C Helldiver (later models, here we talk about the planes used in the 1933 and 2005 Kong films). About the first photograph... what about the straight engine? was it originally a radial engine [ring-cowling equipped], later removed before the photograph was taken? Kintaro (talk) 01:43, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
I think the main point is that the Helldiver designation was uniquely a Naval/Marine aviation acquistion. The Falcon was army air sercice designation. Also please notice, in both films, esp the excellent 2005 version, there are alsolotely no desernable Navy markings on the aircraft. I believe that NAVY was quite distinctly part of airframe insignia. There is no evidence, based on the historically verifiable formation closest to New York in 1933 (9th Operations Group), its branch, (Army) and the markings of airframes in the 33 or 05 versions, that these were Helldivers. I would strongly argue these are in fact representative of the Falcons in reality based at Mitchel field, a relatively short flying distance from NYC. They were persuit/armed recce tasked aircraft. It would make perfect sense to use them, and not Marine/Naval divebombers that happened to be based in Hawaai at the time. Kong would have died of old age by the time they would have got there :) Cheers for a good discussion! Irondome (talk) 02:39, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
  • This is a beautiful design, Hawker Demon which is a slightly later but similar concept. They were all heavy fighters. sort of biplane MRCAs really. Divebombing was the PGM it used. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 03:50, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the beer, fella ! it was pretty cool and nice. Jesus Christ turned the water into wine and could maybe even have turned the wine into beer... but I was not informed that during the 1920s and 1930s he'd turned the US Army aircraft into US Navy planes... hahahahahaha! No, seriously, they are definitely US Navy planes :) Look at their yellow wing tops, here, on these two free clips, here and here. And now, please, check this link: At that time Navy Aircraft were overall silver-doped fabric, with chrome yellow wing tops on the upper wing and aft horizontal stabilizer. While the chrome yellow was not officially ordered until May of 1925, it had been an unoffical standard that had been adopted starting in 1920 as an aid to locating aircraft that had made fored landings in water. Concerning the Hawker: a beautiful design, indeed... British!! ;) I salute you! Kintaro (talk) 08:14, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
Hello again Irondome. Look at these links, please, they are from the Internet Movie Plane Database. They contain photograms from both films, the 1933 version and the 2005 version. Following that latter, it seems the squadron, at least the one depicted in the 2005 film, was the VF-1B "Tophatters"... which used them [the "top hat" insignia] from 1930 to 1932. On that period, here, the VF-1B squadron is described as a "fighting squadron", but with two-seat planes it's more realistic to describe it as an "attack squadron" (in an air-ground attack use more than air-air attack use). I don't understand why the planes in the 1933 film have straight upper and lower wings, and why on the contrary those in the Jackson's 2005 version have swept wings in the upper (which is the exact shape of the historical Falcons and Helldivers, just check it, for example, here, here and here. In addition, in the 1933 film, the real planes, flown and shot for the film, are unequal-span biplanes, but the model battled by Kong (in the close special effects shots) is a pure biplane, with a lower wing sizing the same length as the upper wing. The more I watch the live action 1933 real planes, the more I think they could be Boeing fighters converted into two-seat attack planes. The vertical stabilizer also looks different if looking at one version or another, 1933 or 2005. Kintaro (talk) 11:08, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
Very interesting information. I do not see how they chose the top hatters as a unit, most odd. They were no based within flying distance of NYC. Very odd. They do appear to be the Falcon "fighting" type though, not the Helldiver. None the less, NAVY is quite clearly marked on the 2005 aircraft insignia. So I accept they represent navy persuit planes. Interesting that the unit does not record what type was used in 1933, the year of the supposed events. I agree the 33 version used Boeings. I have come across that several years before and fully accept it. This has raised more questions than answers! I hope you enjoyed the beer. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 21:08, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

I definitely enjoyed the beer, thank you again. About the planes used in the 1933 film, in my opinion they could be anyway Curtiss planes (seems to be just a matter of the upper wing modification...). We should continue our investigations on that point... don't you think so? But back to the 2005 King Kong... I'm pretty sure now that the planes are Curtiss F8C-5/O2C Helldivers (or F8C-4, but most likely F8C-5), and so... my edit... should be restored :) (come on, dude, look at the Commons images: here, here and here. All those planes are definitely exactly the same model as the one used in Peter Jackson's King Kong). Nope? Cheers! Kintaro (talk) 01:43, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

The only practical issue is that the Falcon article has all the Helldiver info :). I am persuaded that they are NAVY, and that they are F8C-5 variants. Leave it to me..Irondome (talk) 10:45, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
Done. See what you think. This whole conversation has been a pleasure. Stress-free, good humoured and very informative. I salute you User:Kintaro, a true Wikipedian. Cheers my friend! Irondome (talk) 11:06, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you so much, Irondome, for restoring my edit, and especially for your kindness. I personally continued my investigations concerning the planes used in the 1933 film. In the 2005 film all the planes used by Peter Jackson (full-scale mockups, models or CGI) were, now we do agree each other, Curtiss F8C Helldivers... but in the 1933 film two different types of planes were used, and depending on the shot you can distinguish one... or another. In the fictional story depicted by the 1933 film, Kong is supposed to battle four identical planes of the same type (downing one), but during the shooting and during the special effects creation process, it now seems obvious to me that the filmmakers used two different types of plane: the Curtiss F8C Helldiver (the only one chosen by Jackson in 2005) and the Stearman C3B (or maybe C3R). A scale model of the Curtiss Helldiver was scratch-built for the special effects sequences and several live-action scenes were shot with real-flying Stearman C3s and Curtiss F8C Helldivers. The Helldiver scale model had an insignia in the waste of its fuselage, a flying winged horse, certainly from the VP-11 squadron. I'm almost definitely convinced of all these claims and if I take the needed time I can bring links, explanations and facts on plane anatomy, clearly visible in photograms and sequences straight out of the film... Well... Salute! Kintaro (talk) 12:23, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

By the way, the Stearmans used in the 1932 shooting could have been Stearman Cloudboys instead of Stearman C3Bs or C3Rs (and in that case they could have been furnished by both the US Navy or the US Army). Cheers! Kintaro (talk) 13:11, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
Hi Kintaro! I am going to see my girlfriend for a couple of days, but will log on on her laptop and comment further on the 33 version and its curious mix of types. I agree with your I.D of types but I will watch the original 1933 version DVD over weekend. She has it in her collection. The ideal woman :) Cheers my friend! Irondome (talk) 15:47, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
The first time I watched the classical King Kong I was 6 years old (it was around 1981, on TV, in France). I was dazzled. That was more than 30 years ago and since then I have watched the film more than 10 times, maybe more than 15 times. Every time I watched the full entire movie for the movie itself, I didn't notice there were different types of plane depending on the shot. The shots are fluent enough, the types are similar and the spectator is unconsciously convinced that all the sequences are made with the same type of plane. It was only today that I noticed, watching again and again, and stopping the image in every sequence, that there were indeed two different types of plane in the film. Just one more thing: on this link you can see an original surviving miniature of a Helldiver from the team of special effects makers. Amazing piece of history. Cheers, and salute the ideal woman, she is the ideal woman indeed if she owns a DVD of the original King Kong. Kintaro (talk) 00:25, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

RfA review and the chat-up line thing

It's probably best to post here about these. RfA review: yes, I'd be happy to, but will need a bit of time. Chat-up line thing: Maybe a good plan to avoid commenting on social networking/possibly trollish posts like that. He has a bit of a history..

All the best. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:04, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the willingness to continue the analysis Anna. On the other point, Glad you got rid of it. So many "eds" with pasts, I must be careful to discriminate. Cheers :) Irondome (talk) 23:09, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
1: Happy and willing, and will get back to you as soon as I can on that. 2: No worries. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:17, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Books & Bytes, Issue 6

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 6, April-May 2014
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs)

  • New donations from Oxford University Press and Royal Society (UK)
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The Wikipedia Library: New Account Coordinators Needed

Hi Books & Bytes recipients: The Wikipedia Library has been expanding rapidly and we need some help! We currently have 10 signups for free account access open and several more in the works... In order to help with those signups, distribute access codes, and manage accounts we'll need 2-3 more Account Coordinators.

It takes about an hour to get up and running and then only takes a couple hours per week, flexible depending upon your schedule and routine. If you're interested in helping out, please drop a note in the next week at my talk page or shoot me an email at: jorlowitz@gmail.com. Thanks and cheers, Jake Ocaasi via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:41, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

WWII updated casualties #

Hello Irondome, I noticed that the issue of ethnic Polish casualties was discussed earlier on the WWII talk page... my apologies for forgetting to insert the reference source. At this point, I went ahead and added the reference published by Poland's Institute of National Remembrance, this figure is also inline with those on World War II casualties of Poland, this way we avoid the issue of contradictory statements on WP pages. --Factor01 (talk) 11:54, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for that Factor01! Cheers Irondome (talk) 12:43, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

BMD-4

Could you please rate this newly made article? I appreciate it. Khazar (talk) 19:47, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

I will do my best AK. I am with my friend at the moment logged in to her pc. Will be home later today. I am still coming to terms with the great and senseless outrage of yesterday. Kind regards Irondome (talk) 12:47, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Fixing ref links on Rachel Corrie

Hey Irondome, so I attempted to clean up the biased article on Rachel Corrie but I think I broke some references in the process. Can you help with that? I don't want it to get reverted. I think my edits were very fair. --monochrome_monitor 21:34, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi MM. I have used my rollback tool to revert all your edits. Do NOT take it the wrong way. I think each edit (there were 10) should be examinined on a case by case basis at talk. This intensive editing may provoke a a minor messy edit war for a couple of days. We have enough going on as volunteers! I suggest you make one or two edits at a time and take them to talk. Let us adopt a gradualist approach. The links issue will be resolved in the process. Cheers :) Irondome (talk) 22:22, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
Why did you revert my edits w/t telling me? Every single one. I even fixed the references. I spent like an hour on them, addressing the criticism on the page. Why not tell me first? --monochrome_monitor 22:25, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
I had no idea you were dealing with them. I thought you had given up on fixing them tonight. I assumed we would talk first, based on my rollback.Irondome (talk) 22:30, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
Added to my watchlist. Irondome (talk) 22:49, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
The rollback tools can be used only to revert vandalism.If you use it for something else its disruptive.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 04:18, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
AGF, Shrike, AGF. Read the context before you jump in. Irondome (talk) 12:46, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
I read the context the use of this tool is only for vandalism.Or did you use it by mistake?--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 15:32, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
Not only for vandalism, Shrike. Quote *To revert widespread edits (by a misguided editor or malfunctioning bot) which are judged to be unhelpful to the encyclopedia, provided that an explanation is supplied in an appropriate location, such as at the relevant talk page[1]. I believed the edits were entirely in GF but see above for my rationale. I have repeatidly made it plain to MM that I have no issue with his edits, it was merely that I thought it would cause an outbreak of edit warring. I made a judgement call. It may have been right or wrong. I explained my reasoning thoroughly above and on talk, as required by the above section in the rollback essay. Irondome (talk) 15:57, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ See also Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ryulong#Rollback.

A kitten for you!

Something got you down?

I prescribe kittens!

For maximum effectiveness, apply one kitten per kilogram.

(External use only)


--monochrome_monitor 16:57, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Exactly! Thanks mm :) Irondome (talk) 18:55, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
My pleasure! Should I answer his last comment or just leave it? Something about my argument being invalid because there's no difference between denial and revisionism because holocaust deniers call themselves revisionists. That's just so ridiculous I don't even know how to approach it. Is there a wiki rule against insulting other editors? Probably. Does anyone even read those rules? --monochrome_monitor 01:13, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
I stopped reading when I got to the bizarre "Scottish" reference. Just gave up. Drivel. I would just ignore it. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 01:43, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

IAF trainers

Hi Irondome, the trainers deal no longer belongs to 'Future' section. Now it is in 'Current' section. Flayer (talk) 20:24, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Duhhhh. Trout at will! Irondome (talk) 20:26, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctions notification

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding the Arab–Israeli conflict, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

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Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Information icon Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you.--Bbb23 (talk) 05:58, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Antwerp X

How can this be fixed? Something should be said about the SCR-584/M-9 technology about proximity fuze technology, which were important inventions in anti-aircraft technology. DonPMitchell (talk) 02:50, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

the whole section may have to be lengthened. There is lots of dubious fat stuff in that article. we could make room for a critical section dealing with the first anti-missile defences. PF technology, late war radars and even that there was a variant of a Vickers Wellington (which was arguably the first multi-engined AWACS) to pick up VI cruise missiles coming over the North sea launched via bomber. Fighters would be vectored if feasable. But they gave warning shortly sfter launch. Also that British defence radar networks were capable of detecting V2 re-entries and roughly vectoring their impact area, but there was no time to issue alerts due to the 30 second to 1 minute maximum radar telemetry they could only get. It is a hugely rich field. I would say expand and prune other stuff with consensus. Irondome (talk) 02:59, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
An anonymous user seems to be messing with this section of the article, but I don't know what his issues are. DonPMitchell (talk) 00:27, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Email

I emailed you. Just wanted your advice considering you offered your tutelage. :) --monochrome_monitor 19:05, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi there. I have literally just got back after 9 days away and off-line. Let me get up to speed. Just checking my mails now. Irondome (talk) 20:50, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

requesting help

Hello! My apologies if I'm doing this wrong, but I saw your name on a list of editors offering help. Please let me know if I should ask elsewhere.

I have recently been doing a lot of basic proofreading edits to various articles here. These are all minor edits and I assume they have mostly gone unnoticed. This is largely because, although I know the basics of how Wikipedia works, I don't know a lot of the fine points, especially how to handle edit conflicts.

I just finished a huge edit of an error-riddled school page, West Orange High School (Winter Garden, Florida). This was immediately reverted, and the person who did so also added a few odd, out-of-context words to the article like "playful," "palace," and "test edit," which isn't vandalism but is certainly nonsense.

I would consider contacting this user directly, but he also vandalized my personal page here (changing "don't hate me" to "hate me").

So I'm not at all sure what to do. What is the procedure here? I'd love to see my edit, which was done in good faith and improved the piece, reinstated. However, I am not super invested in the topic, and my main concern is the personal attack and potential future run-ins with this person. Can you advise? Thank you! Jessicapierce (talk) 21:56, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

I have reverted the edit, which appears odd, and reqested the concerned editor to discuss the edit on article talk page. You are quite at liberty to revert edits providing you do not break any existing or special requirements which are usually admin set. The edits and the personal attacks are seperate issues. I would get admin support for the latter if it persists. I will not be around for perhaps 48 hrs, so I suggest getting admin eyes in on this. User Kudpung and user Anafrodisiak are both excellent admins. Kudpung especially specilises in educational establishment-related articles. Keep an eye on the article for reverts. If you were "visiting" the article, and have no special interest there, may be an idea not to get too embroiled. Irondome (talk) 22:34, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks so much for your quick reply, and the reversion! Looks like that account has been blocked, so there shouldn't be any more trouble, though I will keep an eye on that article. I've also been reading more about how to deal with vandalism and editing issues in the future. I had read a little about this when I first started using Wikipedia, but the amount of documentation is sort of daunting, and it's nice to be able to ask more experienced people for guidance directly. Thank you for that - I really appreciate it! Jessicapierce (talk) 00:37, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Request for help

Hello, Simon.

Thank you for volunteering on the Editor Assistance page to help those of us who run into challenges while editing.

I have several citation issues that need to be sorted for the biography of Hezekiah Leonard Clark, Jr.. First, the editor who created that article has persevered heroically through the AfC process nine times, with eight different reviewers since May 2013 (see User talk:Elaine58). I completely respect her dedication to gaining AfC approval and also to supplying requested citations. The problem is probable original research citations for all but the information about Mr. Clark's marksmanship, and other citations that do not verify the facts asserted about Mr. Clark, as they are generic home pages of various organizations rather than sources that provide any information about Mr. Clark. I have engaged Elaine 58 on the article talk page, and have not deleted any of the questionable material, but would appreciate your take on article content related to citations provided.

A second more technical issue surfaced yesterday as I changed the format of citations to the US Army newspaper, The Bayonet. The archived newspapers are cataloged by entire years, provided as very large pdfs (~1000 pages) that download slowly or not at all. There are 16 references to three of those very large files, for years 1969, 1970, and 1971. Originally Elaine58 had provided bare html links to the index page for the newspaper, and I eventually revised the links to pdfs for each article. However, when I tested the links the following day, I kept getting error messages, so I replaced them with the index page again. Then I discovered the problem was lengthy pdf download time (up to 2 hrs!), which possibly is related to the volume of traffic on my ISP. So I changed the citations once again, this last time linking urls of the three years to each article with a comment in brackets that the large file may be slow to download. Not ideal, but my thought was that anyone wanting to verify the source would be alerted to the download time, and also might realize only 3 files need to be downloaded rather than 16. Because I use the Visual Editor, apparently my solution triggered nowiki tags, which apparently signals I have used the Visual Editor infobox template inappropriately? I had used brackets around the comments on file download time, which I last night changed to parens. Should the nowiki insertions be removed, too?

Ideally, there should be a way to reduce the number of footnotes to The Banner from 16 to 3, using the format of a single source cited multiple times, and superscripted page notes. However, with the citations to 16 specific newspaper article titles, I haven't been clever enough to figure out how to make that work. Any advice on how to sort this conundrum? I thought of a way to direct readers to a listing of the three large files – a bit clumsy, but better than my earlier effort. I'd still like to know if there is a cleaner way to present newspaper citations under these circumstances, if you have time to review it.

Thanks for considering my request for assistance. --Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 19:39, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi there. Sorry for the delay in answering, been away with my partner for a few days and did not check in. I find periods of complete offline helps my mental balance. Let me take a look at your issues in the next 24 hours or so. The first I think I can contribute to, however the second may be a bit out of my reach in technical knowledge. However I will endevour to put you in touch with more technically savvy colleagues who may be able to help. Please give me at least 24 hrs, due to real life inbox being rather full at mo. Hope this somewhat sparse response helps. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 01:08, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for your response...I understand the need for downtime, and taking care of sanity. Hope you are feeling rested and refreshed. Of the two issues, the first is the more difficult, and I may have erred in trying to honor the feelings of the creating editor. I believe this is the only article she's editing, and it seems to be a labor of love--since she has access to the subject's personal papers and probably a scrapbook of clippings, I'm thinking she and the subject are quite likely related. Nevertheless, many of the citations are irrelevant to verifying the facts. I did create a workaround for the more technical citation problem, so that's less important, but I'd still like to know how to properly resolve it. I'm very glad for any help you might offer. — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 05:19, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

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Books and Bytes - Issue 8

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 8, August-September2014
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

  • TWL now a Wikimedia Foundation program, moves on from grant status
  • Four new donations, including large DeGruyter parntership, pilot with Elsevier
  • New TWL coordinators, Wikimania news, new library platform discussions, Wiki Loves Libraries update, and more
  • Spotlight: "Traveling Through History" - an editor talks about his experiences with a TWL newspaper archive, Newspapers.com

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:51, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 08 October 2014

Barak 8

Barak 8 is comparable to the American RIM-162 ESSM, not the European Aster. However, it is wrong to weasel in other missile types to the see also section in effort to misguide the reader into thinking the RIM-174 Standard ERAM or Barak 8 are comparable to the Aster. Specification wise, the RIM-174 is distinctively superior to the Aster. 109.78.64.24 (talk) 12:03, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

If you look at the sources for Barak 8 (missile), you will note that "Barak gets bigger and better" specifically mentions its comparability to at least the Aster 15. Moreover the system is in a relatively early stage of development and has a developing ABM capability. Therefore I have a source which ties it in. I am not responsible for adding the RIM-174 to "see also", so I suggest you take that up with the responsible editor. I am concerned by your tone. "weasel" and an accusation that I am "misguiding" I find offensive. You either AGF or not here. I assume you are an experienced editor hiding behind an IP address, for whatever reasons. I shall be reverting and re-adding it in my own time, and shall be taking it to the relevant talk page to seek general consensus. If you revert me again before a due discussion you shall be edit warring, which I am sure is not your intention... Irondome (talk) 14:02, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CIII, October 2014

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The Bugle: Issue CIII, October 2014, Redux

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Sun baking

Given the fierceness of the Australian sun during the warmer months, we don't 'bath' in it ;) Nick-D (talk) 05:05, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Message received and clearly understood :) Irondome (talk) 05:13, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

No response

Irondome, could you take a look at this. I thought I was removing some rather thin argument, and in so doing editing to improve the article, however I find myself reversed and I cannot even get a response on the talk page. Maybe I'm just off base. Appreciate it. Gunbirddriver (talk) 01:23, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi GBD, good to hear from you. Just checking talk background. It's 1.30 am in London so may be crashing soon, but I'm certainly in on it. Cheers Irondome (talk) 01:31, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
Update. Hi User:Gunbirddriver. Been proposing a modification of the form of words used, as from quotes supplied from Beevor by PBS, it could be supported that propaganda and revenge were only partial reasons for the disorder. Vodka and indiscipline seemed to have played a major role too, which the quotes i've picked up on seem to support. Not sensing any strong opp from PBS. What do you think? I think a word from you there may be useful in moving this along. Cheers mate Irondome (talk) 22:05, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
Yes, finally there is a response, and after six weeks it is high time. Thank you for helping to get a discussion going so we can at least see what the reasoning is behind the editing. Now PBS wrote a great deal, and it will take a little time for me to formulate a response, but I will do so shortly. Thanks again. Gunbirddriver (talk) 06:14, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CIV, November 2014

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Benjamin Netanyahu

Thanks for the self-revert. I was scratching my head trying to figure out my "POV". --NeilN talk to me 02:27, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

No worries Neil. I'm just knackered. Beer and bed ;) Cheers! Irondome (talk) 02:29, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your efforts there!! LadyofShalott 05:28, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

No, I should be thanking both of you. Repellent. Irondome (talk) 05:32, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 November 2014

Talkback

Hi, Irondome - first of all my apologies, I shouldn't have put that there. Now I know about this, I'm new. You had deleted the addition to the Herman Göring page about another claim that he had received cyanide pills through his wife Emmy's mouth, who would "kiss" him through the bars. The reference to The Accidental Caregiver is duly noted, however I scratched that reference and included an article from the LA Times (http://articles.latimes.com/2005/feb/07/local/me-goering7) which clearly states that has been a common claim set forth. I would think the LA Times is a credible enough source? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:F1A9:3900:C3B:668E:AB9A:3E19 (talk) 19:28, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

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The Signpost: 03 December 2014

Nominations for the Military history Wikiproject's Historian and Newcomer of the Year Awards are now open!

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Nominations for the Military history Wikiproject's Historian and Newcomer of the Year Awards are now open!

The Military history Wikiproject has opened nominations for the Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year. Nominations will be accepted until 13 December at 23:59 GMT, with voting to begin at 0:00 GMT 14 December. The voting will conclude on 21 December. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:41, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

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The Signpost: 10 December 2014

Voting for the Military historian and Military newcomer of the year now open!

Nominations for the military historian of the year and military newcomer of the year have now closed, and voting for the candidates has officially opened. All project members are invited to cast there votes for the Military historian and Military newcomer of the year candidates before the elections close at 23:59 December 21st. For the coordinators, TomStar81

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New Wikipedia Library Accounts Now Available (December 2014)

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The Signpost: 17 December 2014

Merry Merry

To you and yours

FWiW Bzuk (talk) 16:06, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CV, December 2014

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The Signpost: 24 December 2014

SPYDER

How well are you with evaluating articles? The reason I ask is because I soon want to nominate this article as a good article. I'm hoping to improve the description and the lead to do so. Khazar (talk) 02:00, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

It's good it's been getting recent attention. You did a good edit just then. Yeah I would be glad to help out, helping get it to GA status. User:Flayer may be worth pinging, as I suspect F has evaluated GA's. So far I've only cooperated in getting a couple up there I think. Glad to help general tuning. Cheers Irondome (talk) 02:09, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
Pinged NickD as well. He can certainly evaluate. Irondome (talk) 03:01, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

2014

slipped quietly away, so just a quiet ‘’all the best’’ to you for 2015 and I hope you’ll continue to be around on Wikipedia for a long time to come.--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:49, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

I've nowhere else to go C ;) Seriously, I will just continue to learn the ropes, and help out where I can. Hope to be around for many moons yet, in all senses. Thanks Irondome (talk) 15:42, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Talkback

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The Signpost: 31 December 2014

Books and Bytes - Issue 9

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 9, November-December 2014
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

  • New donations, including real-paper-and-everything books, e-books, science journal databases, and more
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:36, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 07 January 2015

Valley of Tears

Hi Irondome. Appreciate the feedback, thanks! I almost started amending YOUR profile - far too modest! Back to the Valley: the intro part still is a mess, but I cannot deal with it now. If you, old Wikinaut, know whom to ask, you'll be forever thanked for it. Right now it has half of the entire Golan theatre there. Some of the superfluous stuff seems to be missing on the Yom Kippur War page, so deleting it would be a waste, needs to be grafted over. Takes too much time for me... I need good overviews for my work & study, I guess many people use Wik. the same way, endless sausages of facts without headings, with repetitions etc. are utterly USELESS, I hardly ever bother reading any further. Just letting stem off. Havea great year! Arminden (talk) 13:47, 11 January 2015 (UTC)Arminden

Hi brother, I appreciate the words. You seem to be doing ok here yourself :) I hope you stick around for a long time. The valley is a small book at the mo. A great read but just way too long. It has the potential to be a great article which may even meet good article status one day. But it needs work as you so rightly say. I'm happy to help out if you wish to chip at it. There is no time limit, no deadline. It needs to be radically trimmed, and stuff does need to be transferred to the YKW article. But it has potential. Agree with your analysis totally. Happy to co-operate as far as real-life stuff gives me time. Peace, and I will catch up with you soon! Regards from Irondome (talk) 19:17, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Hello again. Since you're mentioning real-life stuff, it's a bit awkward to bother you with this. IF you can fit it in, here's smth. you can help out with. My Wiki-skills are clearly not sufficient. I've done some work on Mikhail Gurevich (aircraft designer), but somehow three elements which do show in "Edit" mode, very much refuse to do so in "Read" mode: "See also", the actual list of awards, and the "References" heading. Any advice? Ignore this if time is tight, and THANKS anyway! Arminden (talk) 19:18, 12 January 2015 (UTC)Arminden

Hi bro apologise for tardiness in getting back. Had a quick look at article. A great designer. Just checking. Do you mean you can't get it to edit in mentioned areas? Just clarifying. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 23:08, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Fry Sauce in the U.K.

I'm suprised that you haven't come across it yet. I live in Hastings, and have found a Heinz version that is sold cross the board, and supermarkets such as Tesco, Asda, Morrisons, and Sainsburys have their own versions as well. I thought this might have become the 'norm' across the UK, but I stand corrected. 86.180.17.120 (talk) 23:18, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Well if you can grab a source from any of the sites you mention mentioning the item, i'd be totally happy with that. I've seriously not seen it, and I hang around Pound shops a lot too :). Maybe i'm just missing it. I have to make my own at mo, 2 parts mayo to 1 part heinz ketchup. Be nice to have a supply! Need to go up shops tmrw so will ask around. Maybe its in the big outlets. Im in Hammersmith/Fulham so its all Tesco express, and small sainsburys branches. Irondome (talk) 23:22, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Panther tank

Hello,

I have seen that Denniss have undone my recent edit. Don't know why there have to be a knife fight for such an unnecessarily revert, may you can jump over there and help me? I already tried to explain him why his edit was nonsense, please consider talk page. Many thanks, regards 79.141.163.7 (talk) 11:45, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

I will take a look. We should have no trouble, have you spoken to Denniss? Irondome (talk) 13:47, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I left him a message on his talk page Regards 79.141.163.7 (talk) 23:49, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 14 January 2015

#123

Could you do the same thiing for support #123 here? --Tito☸Dutta 22:00, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Sees User:Risker got there first! Bit concerned about the same !voter on Mels RfA if he/she is in fact blocked, as R says. Cheers Irondome (talk) 22:13, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Yes you are right. --Tito☸Dutta 22:17, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 21 January 2015

The Bugle: Issue CVI, January 2015

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The Signpost: 28 January 2015

The Signpost: 04 February 2015

Request for Comment

Hello Irondome,

I want draw your attention in the recent revert from User:AABBCC112233aa which took place on the article of T-34, 1. However, I started the talk to request a speed removal and rephasing of that sweeping and misleading description. What you think of my suppositions regarding the rules and more neutral description? Thank you for your consideration. Regards Bouquey (talk) 19:34, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Replied to Bouquey on relevant talk page Irondome (talk) 13:43, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

About Adminship review

Hi Irondome, I have seen you at Anna's talk page asking for your contribution reviews. But as far I know Anna, she generally doesn't review contributions for RfA candidates. In this case I can refer you to Mr. Stradivarius, another admin and an expert in contrib review. I'm sure he can help you. Cheers, Jim Carter (talk) 05:53, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Pardon me, but what makes you think that I generally do not review contributions for RfA candidates? Many such requests are via email. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:49, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Oops, sorry Anna Frodesiak I didn't know that... O.o Jim Carter (talk) 09:03, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Don't be sorry. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:09, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Hello Irondome, I'm sorry for what I did yesterday. But trust me I did that assuming good faith. And I'm really sorry, I was so much panicked initially that I forgot to give you a ping. I know you are hurt; Your comments this monster originally began with a straightforward exchange between myself and User:Anna Frodesiak about the idea she had floated and asking her opinion on maybe an admin run in the next 12 months+. I didnt even get a bloody ping. at WT:MMS said that you are hurt. But trust me I was just trying to help. I don't have any bad intention. I believe, you will understand and forgive me. Many thanks. Jim Carter (talk) 05:00, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
Jim do not worry. It is sometimes hard to translate nuances intonations etc on the web. I should have added a ;) maybe. I was being only semi-serious. of course I knew, thats how I was following it. Do not be concerned Jim. You are only trying to help. just a gentle mention though. tone down your impulsive tendencies a bit. Always think for a good 10 mins on ramifications of any contemplated actions. Things sometimes get amplified on WP. DO NOT WORRY MY FRIEND. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 12:47, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
Ooo... Thank you for the encouraging message. BTW will you mind if I ask your real name; since calling you "Iron" or "dome" isn't something I like.  :\ Jim Carter (talk) 15:37, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
Simon is fine. Funny I only just noticed I had not responded. Losing it! Irondome (talk) 20:29, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
More funny, I noticed this after 6 months. :-) Jim Carter 14:51, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
I noticed it after 15 minutes, so there a definite improvement in performance noticable. Cheers Jim! Irondome (talk) 15:10, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Foreign policy of Narendra Modi

Thanks Irondome for patrolling my article. Till today the content of the newly created Middle Eastern foreign policy of the Narendra Modi was already there in a compact article called Asian foreign policy of Narendra Modi government which I created few months back. I failed to understand your point that you recommend it for deletion. If you please tell me why it is not suitable for Wikipedia to have those article but I am ready to re-approach my work as per the standards. I will be more than happy to work with you maintaining wikipedia standards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by M.soumen (talk • contribs) 21:07, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Hello M.soumen. I was unaware of your companion article. My concern is that the F/P policy of just one administration (and one so relatively new) should have specicific notability above all the other administrations that India has had since 1947. This puzzles me, and was my main "concern". I do notice an overarching article Foreign policy of Narendra Modi. I just worry that there may be too many regional articles regarding Mr Modi's F/P. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your approach. However the new article lacks the polish of the previous Asian F/R article. It seems a little rushed by comparison. Maybe you could work on it a little more, or maybe hold off till there is more material? You are welcome to resubmit it, if I have erred in any way, I obviously take full responsibility. Kind regards Irondome (talk) 21:14, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Talkback

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The Signpost: 11 February 2015

M15 Halftrack page edits

Dear User Irondome: Good eyes. Good edits. Good edit summaries. Nice sharing the sandbox with you at the M15 Halftrack page. Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 18:17, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi User:Wikiuser100 pleasure to collaborate with someone who knows their subjects! Ditto, your good eyes, good edits and in saying what you are attempting clearly. See you around I hope. Irondome (talk) 19:05, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Likewise!
Hey, while you are here and appear knowledgeable of so many things, do you know how to send a simple automated "You're welcome" when somebody hits the "Thank" button next to an edit on a History page? Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 19:13, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
I'm none too bright on the things that matter mostly :) There isnt one, but it would be a good idea! I think we're lucky they installed the thanks feature. Quite a wise thing, the way the atmosphere can get on here, esp lately. They may install a "screw you moron" feature to balance the good vibes it creates :/ Cheers WU100! Irondome (talk) 19:22, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
I can see the emoticons flying now! Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 19:24, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
LOL. Never visit jimbos talk page or anything to do with gamergate or the admin boards unless you have business there. Helps the stress levels. I stick to machines. You know where you are with half tracks, planes and various heavy metal. You know where you are with an M60 or a Merk. Least you can switch the engine off! Irondome (talk) 19:35, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 February 2015

The Bugle: Issue CVII, February 2015

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AN notice

Information icon This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Nothing wrong per se, just that I mentioned you so I need to let you know. §FreeRangeFrogcroak 01:58, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

No worries and thanks for the heads up User:FreeRangeFrog. I already noticed it, and I think your action is in the finest traditions of a good mop. However, I have strong reservations about the said user's temperament. That was a savage and totally unwarranted attack on you, the like of which I have not seen in nearly 4 years as a contributor. I supported you, and the user spewed their bile onto me. Frankly, I think this user is not temperamentally suited to be a member of the community. Cheers mate Irondome (talk) 02:05, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Re: T-34

Cheers mate. I guess I'm here to click that "You're welcome" button that Wikiuser100 spoke about a week ago. The T-34 article is one of my many long term projects. Years ago it was a Featured Article and somehow lost that status. I've been trying to get it back so you'll see my name splattered all over the edit history. The lede looks good. Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 15:46, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

No worries mate and cheers for the you're welcome :). I'm all over the place too especially on heavy metal, so will be gnoming there too, so will be around. Odd thing about the T-34 is it seems to attract nutters and POV pushers of all stripes. Maybe that is a recentish thing, but I have noticed it. Maybe it's me seeing ghosts. I went through my copy of Panzer leader yesterday, and couldnt find the deadly thing. I don't have a copy of Achtung, so I couldnt check. Also did a long search on Google books, widen search, just came up with blog threads. In any event the new quotes say "deadly" to anyone with some insight. I used the best source from a selection for the Kleist quote, and was quite chuffed to have dug out that Ohio Uni paper. You get bored with Zaloga after a while! I think the quotes cover all the bases in the lede now. Appreciate the feedback. Be seeing you! Irondome (talk) 16:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi, guys. My Notifications just pinged me that I was mentioned here (I now see merely incidentally). Glad to know all is well with everyone.
One thing, though: what do you two make of these Russian language footnotes added today at the T-34 page [1]? Isn't it proper form they be translated (retaining the Russian original or not)? Otherwise non-Russian speakers (This is an English version of Wikipedia.) have no idea of what the cite says or if it accurately represents what is being claimed. No? Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 16:18, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Good to hear from you User:Wikiuser100. This issue has come up before, and I think there is guidance out there somewhere, but I have no idea how to locate it. You know what WP guidance is like :/. It may have a thread on RS noticeboard so it may be worth while doing a subject search there. I agree it can be frustrating, although i'm assuming it will let you run it through google translate or the like? Trouble is you end up with a mangled version sometimes which may lose the nuances. I've not checked todays edits on the 34, so will have a wander over. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 16:27, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Likewise. WP Guidance...? Erk! Just searching for anything in the MOS is enough to need a box of those kittens somebody gave you, or very strong drink. I have better luck going out to Google and searching text strings there to find what I'm after buried back in the MOS here.
Honestly, I don't see pure foreign language footnotes as cricket. Let's play devil's advocate: Start with an entirely English article, then make all the footnotes in Russian, Chinese, and Hindustanni. Where does that leave the English speaking reader? As I understand it, you can link to foreign language webpages (including foreign Wikipedias), and insert foreign language passages verbatim when the English version is already provided (in the body, or footnote, for those fluent to assess veracity), but flat-out all-foreign language/no English entries, either in the body or references, are prohibited on the above grounds.
It appears the poster is bilingual. Can they be appealed to provide a translation in their footnote? I'm just a drive-by here (and at T-34) and know I don't want to get into an edit war (as there's already been a revert and a restoration). But it's definitely heading things in the wrong direction at a key article two very excellent military contributors are pledged to shaping back up. Gentlemen? Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 16:38, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Has there been skirmishing over the new material today? Jeez. Better have a look. I broadly agree with your viewpoint. Be ggod to get the guidance on this as a deterrent actually. Would be good for future issues if stuff blows up. Will make strong tea first. Cheers as always Irondome (talk) 16:47, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
This sounds like a better idea than simply blanking the page with "I ❤ the T-34" and letting the fur fly. But that's always an option if the tea doesn't prove strong enough. Right, then. Shoulders back. Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 17:42, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
I thought Wikipedia is all about WP:RS? What's wrong with primary sources? I also linked a translated english version of it, next to the original report. - Just because the PaK 36 hit in one instance the T-34 23 times without blowing it up, doesn't validate the natural conclusion that the gun was completely crap. That's cherry picking at best! Does the cite mentioning the range? or circumstance? was the tank angling? heightened? So many unknown factors which can misguide any resonable conclusion. Yes, the german observered that both guns were ineffective, or would you call 300-400m for a step back effective? Of course not, so the german high command with their observations! Imagine a tank battalion of T-34 is advancing whit 10m/s and breakthrough your lines within minutes and you simply don't know why your shot don't harm them. Well, If you don't know the effective range, your gun is simply ineffective when starting firing at 1000m. As easy as that! And for the revert and my restoration, that was accidentally happend to Hz.tiang.. Ciao !Homenagen (talk) 18:11, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Thats fine. I liked your cleanup of the lede too. No worries. But there can be issues with untranslated sources that some users refuse to help translate. You just get that silence thing, except for reversions. I hate non communicating eds who just ignore pleas for dialogue. Anyway, good to hear from you. Regards Irondome (talk) 18:20, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
The PaK 37mm was pretty bad dealing with the KV-1 though. Ive got a photo in Zaloga's Handbook of the Red Army of a KV that is covered in 37 hits. I got to 24 before I stopped counting. It was finally killed with an 88. There was that hollow charge round that fitted over the barrel with a sleeve, but that meant the loader having to leave the 37's gunshield. Pretty dangerous work :/. Did crews call it the doorknocker sometimes? My kind of humour. Regards Irondome (talk) 18:28, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
From which cleanup your are speaking? I did only these two changes to the lede 1 and 2, after that I crated this User. My first possession was previously to change something on the Tiger I's page, which why I crosschecked it. Anyhow, you can find some more hints from the given reports on the axis history forum, from Staff Member "Art". Homenagen (talk) 18:39, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Ah, sorry, that wasn't you. That was a helpful IP. Thanks for the link! Cheer

[outdent] hello again ... here's my two cents. I think a few brief quotations and the like in Russian/German adds to authenticity. However translations should be provided. This is the English Wikipedia, not a "whatever language you happen to use" Wikipedia. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary. Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 01:56, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Editor Help

Hello Irondome!

I am asking if you can please have a look at - User:DmitryPopovRU/sandbox and let me know if this is notable?I think this article is worded incorrectly as the sources and references are clearly notable. Please have a look!

Thank You! --DmitryPopovRU (talk) 09:20, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Of course! Glad to help. Be over soon. Regards from Irondome (talk) 15:17, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
User:DmitryPopovRU Hi there! That looks good for launch. Its well structured and richly sourced. You may hit rough waters with WP:NOTABLE and the fact that you did it yourself. I'm no expert on WP:BLP articles and the complex rules around it, but I say go for it. A few minor typos. The book should help in notability and TV work in NZ adds to professional notability. Hope this helps. Good luck! Irondome (talk) 16:17, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Hey Irondome ! Thanks heaps for your comments. The page has been nominated twice for deletion, though the nominations being up for so long! I just think that it is written incorrectly. I need help from an editor who has experience in the WP:BLP if you can suggest anyone please let me know :) Your help is much appreciated too! Thank You! --DmitryPopovRU (talk) 17:44, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi there! Will try to think of someone who is good at this kind of thing. Will update here when I locate someone suitable. Regards! Irondome (talk) 18:13, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi there. An update. submit your article to WP:AFC. Basically it means a third party will review, probably rewrite and submit it on your behalf. It then avoids any WP:COI stuff. I think this is the best route to go down. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 22:42, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Hey! Thanks heaps for your help :) I will go through this process. I will however look if someone can help reword and work on the article before submission. I will also try to find a few more sources. Thanks again. --DmitryPopovRU (talk) 09:29, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 February 2015

The Signpost: 25 February 2015

LLAP

Since you liked my edit, may I point to this edit request ? Opinions are needed. Cheers, Mlpearc (open channel) (\\//) 22:41, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Euro RfA

Remember, the RfA was over an hour ago, it's just that no one has closed it yet, so I think we might should refrain from adding new comments. I'm not mad or anything, just wanted you to take note. --AmaryllisGardener talk 02:53, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

It has not been closed yet so new comments are permissible. Please do not badger me on my own talk page on a massive new issue. Obviously delayed closure is due to closure doubts. If you cannot grasp the issues raised by the new points made then then I strongly suggest you remove the " I am not an admin but would like to be someday" userbox as I doubt your competency to comment. Regards Irondome (talk) 02:58, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
I try to be polite, and this is what I get. I just didn't think it was normal to add new comments after the full seven weeks, because I think one week is enough torture. And I think what you've brought up is very valid, I grasp it. --AmaryllisGardener talk 03:01, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Ok, accepted. However we have a glaring new issue here which cannot be airbrushed out. The RfA is still open. Comments are permissible I believe, until official closure. I retract my competency statement, however I fear you are being too kind here. The candidate, a good soul I do not doubt, would be massacred in the jungle that is WP. Strongly advise waiting 6 months for a new RfA when I am sure the candidate would gain experience. I am just trying to be helpful here. We must face facts Amaryllis. At this point this colleague is not ready for the stern trials of the bit. Kind regards Irondome (talk) 03:08, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 10

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 10, January-February 2015
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

  • New donations - ProjectMUSE, Dynamed, Royal Pharmaceutical Society, and Women Writers Online
  • New TWL coordinator, conference news, and a new guide and template for archivists
  • TWL moves into the new Community Engagement department at the WMF, quarterly review

Read the full newsletter



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The Signpost – Volume 11, Issue 12 – 25 March 2015

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Variants

Partly per your comments about the removal of the subsection, I have added a subsection about the MP 41 and sourced it. Jonas Vinther • (speak to me!) 15:52, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Jonas. Regards Simon, or Irondome (talk) 22:04, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Meh

[2] ―Mandruss ☎ 04:23, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

What a wonderful connection!

Re Mitchell edit, London, cockney and your revealed generic ID, ID. Have you ever read The Doctor is Sick? There's a wonderful portrait of two Stone brothers from that background, actually in literary terms, though modeled on real life Jewish cockneys, they are divided and damascened with evocative echoes of various aspects of Leopold Bloom in Ulysses. Cheers, ID -Nishidani (talk) 11:41, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Welcome Nish! I must get my eyes and hands on it. I assume the Stones' form part of the coterie of "friends" described? With a subtle fusion of the great anti-hero and punch bag of events and consequences, the great or humbled Bloom? That I must read! My heritage is interesting N, with many unexplored paths. I must do some research when I have the time and the emotional peace. Yours with bells on. Simon, or at other times, Irondome (talk) 20:26, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
I've always been fascinated by dialects, and that includes those that become fully fledged languages (Yiddish), if only because dialects tend to conserve all manner of witticisms, angles, memories, hidden histories cultural tics, that the progressive metropolitan world hastily raises/razes as it pulls the hoi polloi up by their bootstrings (usually latched to their necks! and converts them to thinking in a homogenized manner). I've always thought Sam Weller, one of the most lovable Dickensian characters, was a Jewish cockney, and the prejudice or perception was endorsed when reading Burgess's portrait of the brothers, though I can't prove it. I note when they are used in books (a tricky thing to pull off for the outsider: translations of Dante, except for one I know of, Ciaran Carson's, ignore the fact that the Tuscan mixed more than 10 dialects into the weave of his 'italian' ).
I was prepossessed by Joyce as a kid. My father, overhearing me complain to a schoolmate that Ulysses was banned in bookshops and we couldn't get it from libraries, quietly went round and bought me an (illicit) copy somewhere and gave it to me for my 17th birthday. Once I read it, I got over the adolescent self-indulgence of identifying with Stephen Dedalus, and admired Bloom (in a sense my father played Bloom and I Dedalus in this exchange). Still think him one of the greatest fictional beings, admirable from top to bottom. What a mensch should be.
Look, one doesn't wait around for such things like family history. Key things die off every year, with kith and kin, far and near, forgetting or, because, as one learns at bereavements, one just didn't ask the obvious questions in time. So don't delay. Make phone-calls, write letters, get it all down. You find out odd things that suddenly illuminate your own immediate identity by the shadow of antecedents. I could never understand my prim mother's dressing up, on rare occasions, as a 'pro' and singing "What Percy Picked Up in the Park" as she flashed a varicose leg and a louche wink, until long after her death, when her sister described in detail their aunt, a spinster with a very wry sense of mischief, who loved dropping her austere mask and shocking the well-bred with some outrageous quip or behaviour. Cheers Nishidani (talk) 18:02, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
Please hold those wonderful and useful thoughts Nish. I have much to tell you. I have just been dragged through a completely pointless but draining little drama at the 3RR board. The rather vindictive IP has been seen off by a wise admin, aided by the reality of the case; but I find these experiences always depressing. I fear I would not be as informing or entertaining tonight. I shall amuse you tomorrow. I find your strong encouragement to investigate my history bittersweet, as I lost my dear mother 2 years ago last week. Oh how I wish she would have written more about these subjects! Luckily she gave me a rich oral history of the family, and I have considerable documentation and photographs. I also have an excellent memory, so I have a base for further investigations. Stay tuned N. Fond regards from Simon, occasionally resorting to the moniker Irondome (talk) 22:55, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
Wasn't probing, and sharing intimate memories stuff over this internet racket, in both senses of the term, is a tad parlous, not so much for outing (who gives a flying fuck really) but because a certain reserve keeps the heirlooms of memory fresh for the real occasions of telling, which, in my book, are best if face to face. The Injuns of the Wild West got it right: a public image or presence pilfers the soul.
Very sorry to hear of your bereavement (my mother died on my birthday as I expected a telephone call to the kibbutz for the usual congrats. When I wept, at midnight, after the call came through, a Druze guard, hearing the sobs, came up with his gun at the ready. I had to struggle in a mixture of simple Arabic and Hebrew to get over to him why I was out, alone, in a dangerous area, in such a state. He thought a few seconds, then suddenly clicked his military boots, snapped his rifle to his arm, in a salute, and stood silently for 5 minutes, and then, patting my shoulder, quietly moved off, with a swift military veer backwards. It is remains one of my most moving memories of intercultural empathy despite a near zero communicative capacity. As the Japanese say: 死んで知る親の恩:'We understand a parent's benevolence only after they have died.' Best. Nishidani (talk) 16:48, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
It would be good to meet up, and I don't consider that probing. I like to communicate with good souls. What little else do with have? I found your recollection of that midnight immensely powerful and evocative. I could smell the night air, the little night sounds (strange how at such times we concentrate on trivial things. A few minutes after she died I remember watching little motes of dust caught in a fleeting shaft of light, and feeling oddly ashamed. I was waiting for profound thoughts, but there were none) and the presence of the guard. Another mensch. How many there are out there! You bring incidents wonderfully to life Nish. I very much appreciate your visits. Yours as ever, S. Irondome (talk) 17:44, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

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About "Big Four" in article Declaration by United Nations

Can you add some reliable source for "Big Four" in article Declaration by United Nations? It has been tagged as citation needed. If no source cited in this claims, it may be deleted. I guess the source can be from Four Policemen,Moscow Declaration,Potsdam Declaration or Dumbarton Oaks Conference. However, all of these are from wikipedia which cannot be the source for wiki. Hence, I don't know the source for "Big Four". Can you find some sources for this?

Sorted. I found rather a good reference, explicitly covering China and the contemporary concept of the big four or the "worlds four policemen" as FDR put it. Irondome (talk) 22:10, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

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Thank you for thoughts on the article talk

Thank you for reflecting the Gerechtigkeitsspirale!

Did you know ... that a church's 1510 spiral of justice declares: "Justice suffered in great need. Truth is slain dead. Faith has lost the battle"?
The poem ends with "Praise the right thing".

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:53, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

And thank you for the thoughtful and informative note Gerda. Much appreciated as always. kind regards Simon, or, Irondome (talk) 22:28, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CIX, April 2015

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MOS:FLAG

Can you stop removing flag icons from military infoboxes? They are widely used and covered by the exceptions in the policy you're linking to. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 20:00, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Generally, flag icons should not be used in infoboxes, even when there is a "country", "nationality" or equivalent field: they are unnecessarily distracting and give undue prominence to one field among many.

Flag icons should only be inserted in infoboxes in those cases where they convey information in addition to the text. Flag icons are visually distracting in infoboxes and lead to unnecessary disputes when over-used. Examples of acceptable exceptions include military conflict infobox templates and infoboxes that include international competitions, such as FIFA World Cup or the Olympic Games. The guidelines for a number of common infoboxes (e.g. Template:Infobox company, Template:Infobox film, Template:Infobox person, Template:Infobox football biography, Template:Infobox Weapon) have long explicitly deprecated the use of flag icons.

The use of ship registry flags and International Code of Signals flags in infoboxes of ship articles is appropriate.

Do not emphasize nationality without good reason[edit] Wikipedia is not a place for nationalistic pride. Flags are visually striking, and placing a national flag next to something can make its nationality or location seem to be of greater significance than other things. For example, with an English flag next to him, Paul McCartney looks like an "English singer-songwriter from Liverpool who was in the Beatles"; without the flag next to him, he looks like an "English singer-songwriter from Liverpool who was in the Beatles". Emphasizing the importance of a person's citizenship or nationality above their other qualities risks violating Wikipedia's "Neutral point of view" policy.

See the above examples from WP:MOSFLAG. There is no good reason to have flags in infoboxes when simple worded links will do. I am aware of naval registry, and some other narrow definitions where they may be acceptable, such as a military campaign or battle, but a field gun? Nope.

So the answer is no, basically. Regards Irondome (talk) 20:28, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I don't need to be spoken to like a child. I think it's pretty clear that we've both read the policy and interpret it differently. Guns, which are used in military conflicts, fall under that provision IMHO. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 16:39, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Well please can you clarify? Now I know the good work you have done here Ed, I am proving to be quite useful around the place too, although I am still rope learning compared to your time served. We have interacted well in the past IIRC, so I really just do not get this difference of interpretation. Irondome (talk) 19:21, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
No worries, I'm not denigrating you, and years of service (volunteering? I've never found a good way to express that) don't matter to me. My interpretation of the "military conflict" provision is that it can apply to the weapons used as well. Many are used by multiple nations, and flags are an easy 'at a glace' way to distinguish them. 06:40, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to Operation Bora!

G'day Irondome, welcome to Operation Bora! Your involvement will be greatly appreciated. Regards, Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 03:18, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for dropping by Peacemaker67, always good to hear from you. Looks a good project, full of good articles and content. I have knowledge of some of the subjects, enough to edit competently. Only issue is non-existent relevant language skills, but I don't think that will be an issue if I use translated sources wisely and under advisement. Will run by any ambitious edits with you first, especially on the political side. Cheers mate Irondome (talk) 19:37, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Richard Feynman

Hey, can you back me up on Feynman being put back into the category "Jewish physicists"? It seems so obvious to me but people are edit warring me on it. You don't have to be a practicing Jew to be Jewish. I'm having a rather irritating argument of similar nature on the article Germans as well, with people calling me a "Jewish nationalist" for saying that Einstein and Marx weren't ethnically German. --Monochrome_Monitor 21:24, 28 April 2015 (UTC) It's so easy to get outnumbered on these issues due to sheer demographics.

M36 Jackson

I'm not sure what you mean by contemporary, because that could mean either contemporary for us, the normal use of the term, or of the tank. In any event, I suspect you have seen references like this or this or this or this or lots of others that Google immediately turned up. So I'm curious why your would RV in this case? Maury Markowitz (talk) 18:56, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi Maury. Check out the M36 T/P for several threads on this. Ok, the way I see it at the moment is that no one appears to be able to find a contemporary source (i.e during its time in service) confirming it was known as the Jackson. In the 60s Tamaya and other model kit manufacturers appear to have brought out kits of the M36 calling it Jackson. It seems that the name was a post-war affectation created by model companies and it somehow "drifted" into mainstream R/S. If we can find a source calling it that from 1945 cool, but it just seems not to be there. So why is it called Jackson? It is a puzzle. Otherwise reliable authors are just being sloppy here I think, and just going with it. Maybe they made models when they were kids? I did ;) Anyway, if you want another go at this on the M36 talk page go for it. I think it should be re-discussed. Maybe there are new sources out there. Regards Irondome (talk) 19:11, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
You're entirely correct, I should have gone there from the start. Please see my notes on 1980s references in US military publications. It may indeed be that "Jackson" is post-war, but its certainly more that a spurious connotation, in spite of what Steven "the soviets fried the space shuttle with lasers" Zaloga might suggest. Maury Markowitz (talk) 20:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
Believe me Maury, the bottom would not fall out of my personal world view, nor would I go and live in the woods, sending angry emails to anyone that would listen, if consensus decided to call the M36 "Jackson". I have no POV on this, but I have always considered this a minor but rather stubborn little puzzle. I will join you over at talk in a bit. Regards, Simon a.k.a. Irondome (talk) 20:22, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

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Books and Bytes - Issue 11

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:35, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Sehr Gut

Thanks; I did not have a chance to do my daily check-up on the article until now. Best, Jonas Vinther • (speak to me!) 20:44, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

We all help each other Jonas! It did not belong..Regards Simon. Irondome (talk) 20:49, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 06 May 2015

Pity

Don't wanna know how you voted. The result was as one expected, but I must admit to a personal disappointment that Ed Miliband failed in his bid, and has resigned. I think he, unlike Camelroon or whatever the drongo's name is, would have understand Paul Krugman's column in todays NYTs. Good men, and wise minds, are not cut out for politics. Whatever, cheers, Simon.Nishidani (talk) 20:31, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

It is a disaster Nish, in some ways worse than the 1983 UK general election. We are now doomed to 5 years (oh yes, no more votes of confidence allowed) of unsustainable public spending cuts which have been widely dismissed as being impossible to implement without risking the very fabric of core public sector budgets, bringing with it the strong possibility of serious and developing social unrest over the next years. In addition Labour has lost Scotland to an undeniably socially progressive but essentially inward looking nationalist party, who ultimately hanker after full independence. I doubt whether Scottish Labour will survive. In addition, we have new boundary changes coming in (I believe in 2017) which will further disadvantage Labour in England. I frankly believe a Labour Party under David Miliband's leadership would have been forming a government tonight. My partner has a fairly senior position in a policy-making body for the NHS, and she described by text this afternoon the deep gloom in the office. Seeing her tomorrow for the weekend. The politics of fear won out Nish, as they do in democracies the world over. Very depressed. Simon, or the much misunderstood Irondome (talk) 20:51, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Discourteous of me to forget to link. Paul Krugman,Triumph of the Unthinking, New York Times 8 May 2015.
It's the death knell of Labour, I'm afraid (metaphorically speaking. At my age, one just tends to feel sorry for the impact on others) And you're spot on: fear is now what governs democracies. I'm too used to the macro-picture of drift into the progressive dismantling of nation-states and their institutions of community as the paradoxical logic takes hold of simultaneously using central banks to provide unlimited debt relief to financial markets while insisting (Spain, Greece the UK etc.) that states themselves must rachet down drastically their (otherwise perfectly) manageable overdrafts by privatizing everything. Essentially nations are engaged in a massive subsidization of their speculative adversaries. Nations have to think ahead for 20 years, financial betters of a return on investment in nanoseconds, whatever the larger consequences. Yes, in GB 1983 was the turning point, but the damage really began with David Stockman's budget under the first Reagan administration. He openly admitted in his memoir that he faked the 1981 or was it 1983 budget figures to hide a $50 billion (from memory: it's on p.353, again from memory, of his book) shortfall, in the context of a general plan to rid America of the "monster" of social security. America's national debt tripled in 12 years, and that was the structural beginning of it all.
But, these were not my thoughts yesterday. I just felt deeply sorry for Milibrand. I guess one will have to practice a Scots accent. They still have a community identity, and will still have a choice between retaining a semblance of a nation-state or etiolation. Oh well, thank God, beer still exists for such moments. Nishidani (talk) 06:22, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
Uh, without prolonging this, but, on reviewing this mentally while out shopping this morning, I thought you might think the above contradictory (US budget deficits, but nation states cannot have budget deficits, ergo the US is not a nation state. Nope.) Such a contradiction would be specious: the three Reagan-Bush administrations tripled U.S. debt, (having started with a critique of Carter's small deficit!) while preaching the evils of deficit spending and the virtues of starving the beast of state finances, something only an imperial lender of last resort can do, and then using the instruments of dominion to offload the world with a doctrinaire vision of financialization that denied states the right to run deficits. Sorry for all this, but unless I clarify, I'll probably still be thinking of it while trying to repair a mower, and electrocute myself through the distraction! Nishidani (talk) 08:53, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
Pump-priming is needed, not food banks. Please do not have any horticultural mishaps. Think of the children, such as myself. You are badly needed. Now I am away to the home of The good life for a couple of days, to be with the one person that gives my sometimes rather miserable existence meaning. All will be well. Cheerio for now! Simon. Irondome (talk) 12:11, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Should I report this blatant Jew Hater?

User:Sellingstuff posted something on Talk:Jews which reeks of rabid Jew hatred. Should I report him? It went unnoticed but it's impossible to assume good faith in such a scenario. Here's what he said (my own thoughts are italicized).
"Josephus and the new testament use this greek word that comes out as jew in english https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioudaios . Josephus (and Jesus) were Judeans, they were from Judea (Palestine) (is he arguing that jesus wasn't Jewish?). So you cant call him a 'jew' (Yes, you can. Jew comes from Judean. They are more or less synonymous). Rabbinic judaism has only existed since the closing of the talmud 500 AD anyway so (no, rabbinic judaism originates in the 1st century BC).... How about some photos of Karl Marx (inventor of communism), Sigmund Freud (this is the only one who I don't object to, not sure why he thinks Freud is bad) Gengrich Yagoda (Soviet secret police), Bernie Madoff (infamous ponzi shemer), Jordan Belfort (convicted of fraud, stock market manipulation) or Lenin (he's like one 16th jewish) Trotsky? (another "Jewish Bolshevist") Sellingstuff (talk) 13:20, 1 May 2015 (UTC)"
So, report? --Monochrome_Monitor 01:15, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

No. It is just rambling crap. I have taken a look. Just a crank who nobody seems to take seriously. You must stop being so hot headed and sensitive. Trust me on this, there were enough decent eds on that thread who would have pulled the user up if it got serious. User:Nishidani is an excellent editor and would have certainly chastised this character if she/he had become too heavy. I want you to chill for a few weeks. Run any proposed edits by me first. You are attracting too much attention MM at the moment. I do not want you blocked. Trust me on all of the above. Simon Irondome (talk) 01:39, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
You don't deny that he's probably a racist? --Monochrome_Monitor 01:51, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
I do trust you Simon. I'll try and lay low for a few weeks. I have been getting a bit of attention. --Monochrome_Monitor 01:55, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
The world is full of racists love, but I always find their frustrated impotence amusing. G d sorts these things out, so in the meantime, laugh and relax. The Jewish people are the most powerful they have been in their entire history. A few lines of badly written nonsense does not change that. Sit back, snigger and enjoy the quantam comedy. Simon Irondome (talk) 02:06, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
You are an amazing human being. I don't feel powerful though. I feel like the world barely tolerates us. --Monochrome_Monitor 02:21, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
I don't track editors, so I am unfamiliar with the full record of anyone. Many of the edits I've seen you make on pages I bookmark are sensible (The page on Palestinians being the gross exception, at least 14 notable misprisions in a brief set of exchanges). I don't know what to make of your impression that 'the world barely tolerates us,' other than recognizing what is indeed a widespread community feeling, entertained even at times by writers and thinkers whose work outside of this area I admire. There are numerous nations and peoples who have deep, and justifiable historical grievances: I was stoned or chiakked regularly by Protestants and Methodists as a child of Irish descent. We couldn't even open a business in the central business district because of our 'bog Irish' origins; to marry out (as a consequence of shotgun marriages usually) was a source for the narrow-minded of anguish). One grew up with horrid stories of genocide, of ancestors of deep learning in Latin, Irish and English not being allowed to teach in our villages, except as a 'hedge row teacher' on Sunday mornings, of going to work in an English manor through tunnels cut into the landscape so the sight of these filthy servants walking over the pastoral Eden of stolen land that constituted the English lords' prospect of untarnished Arcadian beauty would not disturb the pleasure of the lord in looking out the window of a morning as he breakfasted, and having his enjoyment of a rich repaste contaminated by brutes. But all these stories handed down, never became a programmatic 'attitude' that conditioned our every thought. It didn't translate into paying dues when the local IRA man entered the bar and asked for contributions to the cause, money for arms to shoot the occupier. It didn't, in short, translate into a grievance against them. Our 'ethnicity' was our business, an attitude shared by the learned scholars who taught me, some of them Jews of great distinction in their fields, who no more thought of me as Irish, as I did of them as Jews (which as often as not I only learnt of late, when overhearing some out-of-the-blue anti-Semitic crack about a man I felt honoured to be taught by). Perhaps this world is lost, as communications makes every small or large event concerning one's ethnic confreres the object of intense media focus, and a general sense of tacit panic takes root. Be careful. Sure, anti-Semites are plentiful, but they don't last long on Wikipedia, any more than do people who think the battle against anti-Semitism has to be waged on every article where Israel is mentioned. Don't get sucked in to this us/them. Above all, rely on Simon's guidance. If he drops a cautionary word my way, I, as a rather shady reprobate of dubious reputation here at times, would take his advice as an informed and amicable suggestion to reflect on what I'm doing.Nishidani (talk) 12:06, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Disputes over gender, ethnicity, religion, nationality and sexual orientation have sucked in even well-intentioned and experienced editors and left them bruised and with a battleground mentality where the goal stops being creating and maintaining well-written and reasonable articles and begins to be doing whatever is possible to chase the opposition off of the project. Biased editors and editors editing in bad faith can become collaborators through dispute resolution or if they are intractable, sanctioned by an uninvolved administrator. Listen to this wise counsel from Simon and Nishidani and be vigilant but not belligerent and you can avoid any boomerangs that might head your way one day. Liz Read! Talk! 13:17, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you :)

Thanks for being such a great mentor. Unfortunately I'm a terrible apprentice and I can't keep out of trouble, so I'm going to quit Wikipedia. I can't stand the bureaucratic bullshit and I'm sick of arguing all the time. Thanks for being a friend to me though. ♥

Georgia aka --Monochrome_Monitor 21:53, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

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Barnstar for You! EVERYONE!

The Good Article Barnstar
For your joint contributions and brilliant copyediting efforts in bringing this article to GA-status, I award you, EyeTruth, Delldot, GeneralizationsAreBad, Nick-D, Irondome, Hashi0707, P. S. Burton, MisterBee1966, Obenritter, and everyone else I forgot to mention this Barnstar! Awesome job, keep it up. :) Jonas Vinther • (speak to me!) 18:58, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Barnstar of Diplomacy
For your mentoring efforts Hawkeye7 (talk) 08:42, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
That's very nice of you User:Hawkeye7! Hopefully all will come right to everyone concerned in the course of time. Cheers mate Irondome (talk) 17:51, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CX, May 2015

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ISIS accounts on Wikipedia

I asked C-Bomb on what I can do if I saw some edits, comments and pictures that glorifies ISIS because I'm worried that there may be some users who are ISIS supporters. These users vandalize articles with an ISIS flag, pro-ISIS messages and comments. Should users that support ISIS be blocked? 174.113.217.132 (talk) 03:30, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

No Gun Ri-documents

Thanks for your efforts thus far on No Gun Ri Massacre. At this point, because I sense some confusion, and a natural lack of background on the subject, I'm urging all who are taking a hand in this to, please, review the documents at the Wikimedia page Category:No Gun Ri Massacre, here [[3]]. It can be a quick run-through. I've just discovered there's no link at the WP page to this compilation. I can't remember how it was configured previously, whether someone deleted it etc. But this is really a must, since these a key documents mentioned in secondary sources. Thanks. Cjhanley (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 20:30, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

War of the Triple Alliance / Paraguayan War

I have proposed an alternative formulation, you may wish to comment. WCMemail 20:26, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Good to hear from you WCM. Hope all is well. Will be over in a bit to comment. Cheers mate. Simon. Irondome (talk) 00:38, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Made my day

'but I do like the odd bit of bacon. G d bears with me'. Thanks! Nishidani (talk) 10:17, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

  • "The bottom line is that we made a mistake," wrote Almoz. "The IDF will continue to keep kosher, but won't probe another soldier's sandwich." An immortal sentence. Thanks for the shock horror porky probe scoop Nish! Simon Irondome (talk) 20:40, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
The poor blighter was from Boston, where, I hear, septic tank dialect usage re 'pork swords' can be heard at times, which might ring warning bells to halal kosher ears missing the funny bone. He probably never gave it a second thought. Waal, I'll hit the fartsack thinking that if Micks can talk of 'burying the bishop', when they're in a romantic mood, . . 'nite! By the way, do parse my edits at Jewish deicide. I got there via checking MM's last edits. I'm not satisfied. That is an anti-Semitic canard. I added the known stuff there because for 2,000 years people keep confusing an ethnic group with what one sect or court, in one specific period, said of a heretic in their ranks, who by definition couldn't have been God in their terms. . . the problem is how to explain through good sources and yet not feed the fuckwits who tend to jump in glee at the stuff I added. It's worried me today. Cripes, some stuff is hard to edit in unproblematically.
Received and understood. A bastard of a subject area, the essence of which you define with pure clarity. Added to my watchlist. Your edits look fine to me, although we shall be obviously vigilant for any activities of aptly described fuckwits to pervert your points. The article could still do with some minor tweaking. Happy to work with you on it Nish. I am getting into deep academic waters in a couple of unrelated subject areas in the past few days, the Korean miasma (see thread below) and I need to bone up on some questions that the excellent and brave editor (who I count as another mate) User:Wee Curry Monster has quite rightly raised in the vexed Falklands dispute subject area, pointing up the essentially Neo-Fascist origins and nature of much of contemporary Argentinian nationalism, which worryingly is reflected in A. published "mainstream" sources presently being deployed by a small minority with an extreme pro A. POV. I'm feeling rather drained, and intellectually inadequate at the moment, my thinking processes are sluggish and my insights stale, and chasing MM down the rabbit holes of her sometimes eclectic editing pattern is tiring, although I shall never give up on that young lady, who I firmly believe is promising, although her editing reflects youthful fears and emotions, which increasing maturity and increasing awareness of the wonderful paradoxical journey of the Jewish intellectual, spiritual and historical experience will in time allay. Sleep well Nish.
Well it's good to lighten up sometimes Nish. The Byzantine ramshackle structure that is WP will not collapse due to lighthearted japes..(A distant growing rumbling offstage..) Ooops. Cheers! Simon or the irresponsible Irondome (talk) 17:57, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
No wuz (re spellen), but uh. . .I fink, guvna, tha'cha yer pud it a bit skew-wiffy wordordurewise. That orta run: 'it's good to lighten up Nish sometimes'. G'nite, pal! Nishidani (talk) 20:59, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
And to you my friend, and to you. Si Irondome (talk) 21:04, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

NGR

I know you're busy with things that happen places other than the internet. But we've gone through way too many revisions of the lead over at No Gun Ri and I think we might have something that works. Since you're the only person who hasn't been involved in the editing, I think it's fitting if you voice your opinion on it and be the one who actually makes the edit if you approve. Thanks. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 00:40, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

I have been following the evolution of the new version as much as I can, and absorbing new material (see thread above) while dealing with offline stuff. Happy to assist, as you know. Please can you suspend all new edits until about 7pm London time tomorrow. Unsure what timezone you are in TJW, but that would be about 2pm EST. I will be able to work on it for at least two hours then. Hope this is ok with you and other colleagues. Regards Simon. Irondome (talk) 00:54, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
I am EST, but my work schedule is stupid. So it's anybody's guess when I'll be awake and online (or whether I'll know what day of the week it is). No hurry. No deadline and all.Timothyjosephwood (talk) 03:21, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks!

No Gun Ri Barnstar
I think it is definitely a bit early to start handing out Barnstars, but I really appreciate your help in moderating No Gun Ri Massacre. Let's all hope we can keep things stable and productive. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 23:56, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

User:Monochrome Monitor and AN3

See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:Monochrome Monitor reported by User:Nomoskedasticity (Result: ). This AN3 case is still waiting a decision by admins. You proposed that MM take a one or more week break from Jewish subjects, but that offer was not accepted. She has resumed editing at Baruch Goldstein, where she seems to have violated 1RR on June 1. Lacking any indication that MM will adhere to the ARBPIA 1RR in the future, I think admins should consider imposing a three-month topic ban from ARBPIA. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 01:23, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

I appreciate the note EdJohnston. Some you win, some you lose. Your main task is to protect the interests of the project. You must do as you see fit. Regards Simon. Irondome (talk) 02:43, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Sorry

I'm sorry for letting you down, Irondome. You were a great mentor, but I am an unruly child. Hopefully some time in the joint will do me well. --Monochrome_Monitor 16:31, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Holocaust Article

Hi Irondome,

You mentioned that the Holocaust article was about the "Jewish Holocaust." However, in the first paragraph of the article, it says that some historians use a definition including the five million non-Jews. Don't worry, I'm not going to revert your revert - don't want an edit war! - but I just wanted to talk it out and reach consensus here. If you'd prefer to talk somewhere else, I set up a section on the relevant article's talk page. I think it's more efficient and better conveys the information if the different target groups are lumped together. After all, should we also provide statistics (e.g. what percentage of the group was killed, how many children of each group were killed) for Roma, Catholics, mentally ill, Soviet POWs, etc.?

Thank you for reading. Lord of Mirkwood (talk) 00:58, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

(Talk page stalker) It would better if the matter was discussed on the Holocaust talk page. The archives have several threads relating to this issue. many editors (like me) un-watched the article because of the constant drama. My view (which you will see if you read the threads) is that "The Holocaust" refers to the Jews. The Roma have their own term, and some of the others have advocates that want to associate the losses of "their" people with the genocide of the Jews with a range of motives. I believe the academic consensus is that they should be kept separate, but acknowledge that there is a vocal minority who disagree. Regards, Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 01:08, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
(e/c) Welcome LoM. I appreciate your courteous and measured posting. Please note that the operative word is some, in the section in the lede which mentions "some historians.." This indicates that their positions does not reflect the majority current historical consensus among current research, and I fear your edit would fall under WP:UNDUE in the sense of making such a significant edit. The Holocaust is a vastly complex subject as we are all aware, but it is generally accepted that the primary targets of the event were the Jewish people, in line with the racial obsessions and paranoid projecting of the Nazi phenomenon. I believe the plight of the other groups affected is adequately covered by the links which your edit removed. The line of argumentation of adding all the afflicted groups risks confusing some core issues, the primary one being that the Holocaust was a consequence of an imagined racial war between "Aryans" and the Jewish people. This is a critical point. As has been said by Richard Grunberger, the centrality of the Jewish "threat" to Nazi theory was as critical to it's ideology as was class to Marxist doctrine. I would argue that the current versions should stand for these reasons. Regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 01:26, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Sounds good. I just looked at the links which suffered as collateral damage from my edit and it looks as though they cover the topic well. Lord of Mirkwood (talk) 02:17, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Barnstar of Diplomacy
For the way in which you were able to facilitate a peaceful discussion on the article about the Holocaust, even though we came from opposing viewpoints. Lord of Mirkwood (talk) 02:40, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
Our viewpoints were not so very different. You were merely temporarily thrown by a subtle distinction in the lede, which you are now aware of. I enjoy assisting new editors who show promise, and you are welcome here anytime if you have any problems, or even if you don't! Simon Irondome (talk) 02:48, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

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More NGR nonsense

Hi,

Thanks for helping out on No Gun Ri Massacre. Just for full disclosure, I fear that I accidentally revived this quagmire with a post months ago, inquiring about consensus over the use of a certain source (Robert Bateman), and the use of the Dale Kuehl thesis. That being said, I am also aware of the lengthy and tangled dispute.

Anyway, back to business. I am unsure of the situation of NGR, mainly because the promising progress may be affected by the recent ANI drama and the propensity of both warring editors to WP:SOAPBOX and make long lists of grievances/personal attacks. I have already contacted Timothyjosephwood about this, and I am unsure of the path forward for this troubled page. In any event, I think it is critical to get more uninvolved editors from MILHIST or elsewhere. Sorry for this incoherent rant.

Best,

GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 21:51, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

I suspect that the consensual edits that you and Timothy have worked so hard for and is discussed above may not hold without the explicit consent of the two major protagonists. I am finding it very hard to keep track of developments, and I don't really know what to do either. It is as much of a stalemate in terms of entrenched views as the original war itself after 1951! Other editors brought in, even if experienced and respected, may merely find themselves bogged down and frustrated, and that may lead to frayed tempers. The dispute is far older, the lines of argumentation more embedded, the repeated cycles of argument and counter-claim using pretty much the same sources, is far more embedded than I suspected. Maybe a MILHIST panel of very respected editors could arbitrate on this. Maybe that is doable. I do not support either of the main arguments, they are both all or nothing. I see much grey, cock up and panic. I do not doubt that the U.S. military made some brutal miscalls and were hugely embarrassed by it after. But I do not see any vast overarching conspiracy. The line was collapsing. The forces were poorly trained and equipped. I think both protagonists should remember that the incident occurred in

a very different time and a very different world. That is not an excuse, that is a sad reality. If both attempted to adjust their uncompromising POVs and make some token allowances for the opposing view, I think we might start to get somewhere. Simon Irondome (talk) 22:23, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Wow. That's quite deep. Honestly, I'm not an uber-nationalist trying to "whitewash" the event, or a left-winger attempting to allege a "vast right-wing conspiracy" and shame the Army. I'm just trying to add some quality information and see this dispute through to its long-overdue end. I foresee one editor working with Timothy and I to create a well-sourced proposal, only for it to be vetoed by the other. If you have any ideas of other editors who might be interested in fixing up this article, please do. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 22:34, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Hey GAB, chill. No way did I say you were. I was just looking at the two opposing POVs that have been butting heads and just was making a few general observations. No way do I think anything of the sort bro. I admire you for sticking your head over the parapet and trying to take this bear of an issue on, with Timothy. That just shows how deep the article issues are. Regards, Simon Irondome (talk) 22:39, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Oh... I'm really sorry if I didn't clarify my post. I didn't mean it that way at all. I was just trying to satirize the extreme positions on either side of the issue, and how they try to caricature one another. It's all good, sorry for any confusion :) GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 23:06, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
I'm actually quite mortified about that. My bad. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 23:12, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Sarcasm is truly a dangerous tool in the hands of the unwitting, such as myself. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 23:17, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
All is good!!! Stop beating yourself up, you didnt do anything. It was me wandering around some ill-defined grey ideal middle ground version of the article, with my usual crap homilies ;) Now, I have created a new section on NGR talk. It's an attempt to at least get some consensus on something. Anything. Maybe that would be a start in helping to birth a better article. That's what we are here for. Relax pal, all is good ;) Simon Irondome (talk) 23:24, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Irondome, GeneralizationsAreBad I would remind that per WP:CON, consensus does not mean unanimity. I fully expect that there are many points in this debate that either side will never agree to ever. This is, after all, the reason why we have third parties on the page. If all of the editors on the page agree to an edit and one party objects, the solution is simple. Consensus is established, the edit should be made, and the dissenting editor has the opportunity to propose other edits in the future on the talk page to rectify what they may see as a problem. If they decide to war because they didn't get their way instead of engaging in suggestion and discussion, we have enough editors to revert disruptive edits without violating WP:3RR.

This is not therapy. We are not here to talk about our feelings. Everyone does not need to leave happy at the end of the day. What we are here to do is to verify that proposed edits are supported by WP:RS, provide WP:DUEWEIGHT, meet WP:MOS, and otherwise comply with WP policy and guidelines. Unanimity is a desirable, but not crucial part of this process. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 23:56, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

I have my therapy on thursdays Tim. 2pm. Seriously. This is not therapy but an attempt to clear a vast logjam of accumulated crap and rancour. You are proposing enforcing proposed edits which have attracted sufficient consensus, and can be supported by the relevant WP guidance as above. I support if there is no other alternative. Simon Irondome (talk) 00:06, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
Timothyjosephwood Then the edit we discussed yesterday is still good to go? I am assuming it has consensus. If GeneralizationsAreBad signs up to it I suggest we make it in 24 hrs if there is no constructive attempts at dialogue between the dissenting parties. Am I reading you right on this? Irondome (talk) 00:19, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
I support "Counter 7," but the understood rule is that another editor makes the edit. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 00:37, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
I'm fine to move forward. We have agreement among four out of five editors. The disagreement is on wording of a particular passage not crucial for the overall proposal. Weld has not been productive in contributing to the dozen or more edits to the section so far, and has not followed up on the only edit he has proposed period. As I am sure I have made abundantly clear, I have no respect or patience for unconstructive debate tangentially related to an edit that no one has proposed.
There is no reason for this to block the proposal as it stands. If Weld wishes to propose additional changes he can do so proactively on the talk, not by using a minor dispute to obstruct the productivity of others while we could be moving on to other proposals. When I see Weld get on board with the nitty gritty "there needs to be a comma here and a source there", I will be more willing to delay for his disagreement. Currently he's done very little and all of it has been relatively significant POV changes.
If we set a precedent of "unanimity or bust" nothing is going to get done. If we WP:BEBOLD and set a precedent of "get on board and be productive or we'll simply move on without you", it provides an incentive for cooperation. As previously stated, you have not been directly involved in prop 7. So you seem to be the guy to pull the switch.Timothyjosephwood (talk) 00:40, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
(Oh yeah, plus I'm just interested to see if this immediately starts an edit war.) Timothyjosephwood (talk) 00:46, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
I'm throwing the switch after I get my chores done tomorrow and I get back to base. Simon Irondome (talk) 00:48, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
That was what I was worrying about. I also don't want to go to ANI unless it's absolutely necessary. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 00:48, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
If this does start a war, I suggest that we all three expend our three revisions before going to ANI, and that we all three provide warnings when our edits are reverted. Violating WP:3RR by making four edits is a world away from violating 3RR by making 9 revs after being warned by three different users. I would also like to say that I am jealous of Iron's regular therapy appointments. I only wish I had a work schedule that let me do that. And even though I'm in mental health, I should probably be in therapy. I am way too fascinated by human suffering and have read way too much on 20th Century genocides. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 04:39, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
Also Jesus tits, you need to start archiving your talk. It's harder to navigate than "yo momma's phat azz". Or so I'm told. I haven't been in London in a long time, and that was a 15 minute layover. Also full disclosure, I have never seen your mother's "phat azz".Timothyjosephwood (talk) 05:02, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
If we do have to go to ANI, I daresay we have a very strong case to make. As a last resort, it may be necessary, but I don't want to jump the gun before we've exhausted all other options. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 16:54, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

About that switch

It seems apparent that discussion on Counter 7 has reached a point where it is fundamentally not about the edit. Let's be done with it. We are already moving on to other proposals. If you would like I can post another role call on the talk, but I'm not sure it's necessary. As you were. I'm just going to post it. Better safe than sorry. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 17:37, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Please do. There was no real opposition/criticism or counterproposals. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 22:18, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
I've put up Counter 7. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 15:30, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
Excellent. I just noticed. Looking good. It appears that some constructive dialogue by the parties is now ongoing. Things seem much better. Well done! Irondome (talk) 18:05, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
I certainly hope this puts an end to the bitterness, but I might be a bit over-optimistic. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 18:30, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 10 June 2015

"Wikipedia - ain't nobody got time to read a whole book!"

For some laughs. :) Jonas Vinther • (speak to me!) 10:01, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Battle of Kursk/GA1

As you are an active editor of the article, you might want to participate in the review and offer some helpful suggestions. Best, Jonas Vinther • (speak to me!) 08:11, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the alert Jonas! Irondome (talk) 21:05, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Once more into the breach...

Hi!

Sorry to turn your attention back to such a frustrating page, but I'd really appreciate any assistance with dispute resolution over at No Gun Ri Massacre.

Thanks,

GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 18:01, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi GAB. I was going to say I hope all is well...been off a few days, and am assuming consensual editing model is creaking again. Damn. Will pop over in a bit. Simon. Irondome (talk) 21:08, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 21:27, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 17 June 2015

List of people killed or wounded in the 20 July plot/archive2

Would appreciate your vote or suggestions for improvement! Best, Jonas Vinther • (speak to me!) 18:11, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi Jonas, looks interesting, will be over in a while. Hope all is well. Simon Irondome (talk) 18:59, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXI, June 2015

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 13:38, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 June 2015

Not about herzl

Sorry if my remark about Herzl hit a nerve. You should take the liberty of making a stronger remonstration if you disagree with me on these issues, in so far as we might touch on them from time to time (entre nous, not re articles). Obviously Altneuland is in another world compared to MK. My point was about books that seed ideas which have unintended consequences. Herzl was understandably shocked by Dreyfus (and the widespread support that travesty of a kangaroo court got). That trial's aftermath play a big part in Kafka's imagery. If he had had some sense of consequentialist logic, as Jabotinsky had, of what his idea would entail, 700,000 dispossessed, 40% of the entire male population of the territories experiencing arrest and gaol since 1967, he might have chosen some less fraught land, a land where this problem wouldn't compromise or put under dangerous strain Judaism's moral core and idealism. But that's enough of that. I was rearranging my books today and came across David Daiches's wonderful memoir Two Worlds : An Edinburgh Jewish Childhood. I vaguely recall I suggested it was a good read to someone on wiki, and if it wasn't yourself, I strongly recommend it. Cheers, Simon. Don't reply. I needed to clarify before hitting the hay.Nishidani (talk) 21:42, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

All is fine Nish! No nerve was hit, interest was. It would be rather dreary if we agreed on everything, friendships tend to be ruined that way. However, we hit a major fault line. You appear to be intimating that Jews should not have gone to Palestine, which as we all know, was the historical Israel and Judea, which whatever one's POV, is the heartland of the Jewish faith and it's intimate connection to that land, but rather have been directly implicated in the horrific conquest of an "alien" continent and the consequent virtual extermination of native American nations residing therein. This you claim to be the new Zion. It isn't Nish, its an unambiguously stolen continent, which the Jewish people have no historical connection to whatsoever. Compared to the horrors visited upon the inhabitants of the North American continent, the current (arguably self inflicted, due to abysmal leadership and an undeniably existing prejudice towards any autonomous self-governing Jewish polity, which sadly is rampant throughout the region, a vile manifestation of racism and intolerance) inconveniences of the Palestinians is but small beer. Their healthy population growth since 1967 attests to that. One could in fact argue that Palestinian self-identity is a direct, unintended gift from the Israeli people, an inelegant response to Zionism. You appear to be saying that Jews are fine, as long as they don't pursue that pesky living in Israel as a Jewish state thing. I must disagree with your premise. Your great friend, Simon, or the occasionally inebriated Irondome (talk) 22:35, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
I may be wrong, but I don't think of Jews/Israel in exceptionalist terms, and that, certainly, might look odd. Anything I say on these topics either must illustrate a general pattern or rule of human behavior or universal history, or it is badly thought out. That's my working premise anyway.
I have a prejudice. I think historically Jews, and this is one of the things to be extremely proud of, make poor ethnic nationalists: that equation of patriotism and ethnos is a blight on the world, and one which Jews historically were relatively exempt. They could have taught the rest of us a deep lesson that global life doesn't mean a renunciation of strong traditional attachments to a specific local history. The specific problem is religion was the indispensable cement that enabled Jews to survive the dispersive violence of history, forged their identity. But if one turns nationalist, which is an intrinsically secular process, that religious tradition, positive in diaspora, will by an iron logic, tend to usurp the project by an exacerbated fundamentalism. Arab polities suffer from this, and, it is a pity to watch on, helpless, as the same flaw undermines Israel's secular state. That is not to dismiss religion: it is simply to state the obvious. Of course Jews should have felt entitled to go to Mandatory Palestine, or anywhere else. Going there under a national organized separatist project is another matter. A huge amount of those who went did so because they couldn't get to America, France, England or elsewhere (Isaac Bashevis Singer's novels and history tell us that) History is mess, and as Gibbon said, a record of crime, and this applies to every history. There is nothing special in Israel's, except that it is a latecomer to old processes that were known, predictable mainly, and, in its general public discourse cannot see this because 1939-1945 and a sense of exceptionalism weighs immensely on clear perceptions of what is to be done to achieve some semblance of normality in one's national life. Historians fuck up if they think of their work as a moral tribunal. It isn't. Metahistorical judgement is another matter, and of course highly speculative. In the specific case, the 1917 Balfour Declaration was geopolitically stupid, but it created a state, juridically endorsed by international consensus, in 1947. In both cases informed opinion saw the mess that would take place (King–Crane Commission, as perceptive as Keynes was in his The Economic Consequences of the Peace), both 1919, and the US State department in 1947-1948. Anyone who questions that foundational legitimacy is almost unequivocably anti-Semitic. I grew up being reminded by my clan that the family's fortunes were the consequence of two acts of genocide, the English treatment of the Irish down to 1846, which precipitated a diaspora of collateral wings, and an English forbear's genocidal attempt to exterminate an aboriginal tribe in order to secure his pasture rights on their land. It's not in the history books, but the intimate details were handed down, and corroborated by encounters with the survivors of the poisoning. So I grew up, thanks to attentive parents, deeply aware of the nexus between success and murder, local pride and ethnic enmity. I see the same problem throughout world history. I have been very curious about the I/P one because it is so thoroughly documented yet so thoroughly entrammeled by profound historical memories of trauma, that rightly or wrongly, infuse every argument that it provides a rare case of conceptual scotoma in general awareness. I.e. there is nothing unusual going on: this is the way history works, but (it is characteristic of hegemon states, America, China, Japan once, etc.etc.) we are told to think about this or that instance as having peculiarly 'exceptionalist' elements which do not allow one to think comparatively.
All nations are founded on injustice to some party, and programmatic disremembrance by the victor (Ernest Renan What is a Nation? We knew that, in other words, donkey's ages ago, but went ahead. I'm not original in any of this: for me, Tony Judt, whose work I followed from its inception, said it all (here)(here). It's a matter of having the historical awareness of what key decisions will most probably lead to, and acting to avoid negative consequences. That is what politicians do when they rise to greatness, which is rarely (as in England's Slave Trade Act 1807, which was arguably a violation of economic logic and immediate national self-interest). I have never confused Jews with Israel, Israel is itself a multiethnic state so even there it is parlous to keep thinking of it exclusively in 'Jewish' terms: they are two independent discourses, the former being an undefinable congeries of histories, cultures, united by a basic symbolic code, where the individual cuts out his own discursive identitarian space without the complications of nationalism, and the latter, in so far as it is programmatically an 'ethnic state', tends by the logic of things to find itself incessantly obliged or tempted to compromise this liberty, won in the haskalah, by growing, extremely complicated moral-political dilemmas that inflect lives that, otherwise, with a democratic, open, advanced industrial state, deserve the normative security and tranquility that is integral to what all modern social contracts do - the state disarms its citizens in exchange for a guarantee of justice and security. 'Their healthy population growth since 1967' (their population growth has been stable throughout the century: they had a superior level of high school graduation to Israel's in 1967*: this fell to pieces after the occupation; read Sara Roy, the world's foremost expert on Gaza on what occurred before all the Intifadas, to thwart its development in 1970s and 1980s, and this view of improvement dissolves). For them, it has been a disaster. Israel had 3 basic intelligent options: immediate annexation of the West Bank and Gaza, rapid modernization of all services, civil rights, such that the average 'occupied' person would have, as they did in the first year, appreciate where their real interests might lie. Alternatively, immediate declaration of a provisory federated state negotiated with the parties, or lastly, total withdrawal (Yeshayahu Leibowitz), except for the borders, with an offer of favourable trade arrangements with Palestinians, leaving them to decide. It chose the 4th easy standard model: muddle through, to get more, at whatever the cost, and ignore the inevitable stagnant violence that would ineludibly ensue as a minor, bearable cost, paid for by Uncle Sam. That it made no drastic decision either way, but adopted equivocation, ambiguity, while incrementally taking key assets dunam after dunam, was a recipe for perennial conflict, a warrant/alibi for Palestinian extremism, and a larger geopolitical mess. As for Palestinian identity, it is undergoing the same processes that Jewish identity underwent in the Babylonian exile and after 70 C.E., with a difference: in the Jewish instance, a sacerdotal class created the concept of ethnic nation and bound its definition to religious observances. Haj Amin al-Husseini ironically, and unwittingly, crammed that mimetic experiment into his brief disastrous years, and it failed. Palestinian identity is, as Jewish popular identity, based on intense memories of dispossession and diasporic nostalgia and discrimination, but remains fundamentally secular. In this sense, communicating realistically is almost impossible because some of these deep analogies are unnerving. The Israeli psychoanalytic school is excellent on all this, but no one reads them. So are Yehuda Elkana, which I began to read after a tip-off from Nableezy. He too anticipated almost everything I have thought on these issues, and all I can do is nod assent as I read page after page.
(We are abusing wikispace, Simon. I must dedicate the day to my gardens and some Chinese questions.) Cheers (and, really, let's not let our thoughts dwell on these things too often. One likes a voice, and establishes contact. Politics are intrusive, and there is so much one might chat, recall, or yarn about, books and the like Nishidani (talk) 10:32, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
  • I checked round to get a link and found a wiki article that should have mentioned this since I had often incorporated it. I found the book I used cited in Culture of Palestine, where however to my surprise now, (actually the sneaky trick of rtewriting it made me burst out laughing), one reads:-

levels among Palestinians have traditionally been high. In the 1960s the West Bank had a higher percentage of its adolescent population enrolled in high school education than did Lebanon.(29=West Bank 44.6% versus 22.8% in Lebanon. See Elias H.Tuma, Haim Darin-Drabkin, The Economic case for Palestine, Croom Helm, London, 1978 p.48.)

I must be one of the few people who have a personal copy of that obscure volume. On p.48 one reads:
'According to the 1967 census figures, a high participation in education has prevailed in both the West Bank and Gaza. . In comparison with both Israel and Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza seem to have a favourable educational basis. The age group 6-11 shows a high participation in Israel (84.4) than in the West Bank (80.5) but, in the group 15-17 years of age, the percentage in the West Bank is considerably higher than in Israel, 44.6 compared to 22.8 in Israel (no mention of Lebanon. Some editor popped in and replaced 'Israel' with Lebanon because, I guess, it is embarrassing to be told that before it was colonized, the West Bank has a more technically advanced youth population than Israel. The occupation degraded the very good technical-educational basis for nationhood in the West Bank, as the Unification of Italy de-industrialized Southern Italy. It's that sort of thing, of which I know hundreds, which informs my remarks about Herzl's consequences). Now, I'll correct that naughty tweak, and get back to my proper workaday. Have a good one, pal.Nishidani (talk) 10:32, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
Today was a rare day, Nish. a day where the best of human nature was displayed, a day replete with little acts of kindness, a day when the concept of humanity takes on tangible and concrete form. After seeing my therapist at Charing Cross Hospital, a wonderful, wise man who I shall call Indie, ( I am undertaking a fairly exhausting course of Cognitive behavioral therapy) I chatted to the hospital's wonderful collection of Koi and Catfish, and discovered from an ex paramedic named David, a Glaswegian who had been with his wife, being treated for a cancer of the jaw, that the Koi prefer Hobnobs, and the catfish are more partial to Ritz crackers. Afterwards I admired the Henry Moore sculpture nearby. The air was warm. Then I listened to a gifted street performer, named Jesus, and we talked a while, outside Hammersmith Broadway, where he regularly draws admiring crowds, and not a little money. Then I met Halima, a lovely Somalian refugee lady with two bright and vital kids, whom I first met while teaching the rudiments of English to. She considers me a good person, and I always retort gently that she must be mistaking me for someone else. She is in danger of being forcibly rehoused out of London, but bears the worry gracefully. Later while picking up my happy pills, I fell to talking with a witty and good- hearted Palestinian gentleman named Eddy. He had a frozen chicken in a carrier bag on his head, claiming it cooled the body and cleared the mind. He shared the fowl, and within a moment my body too was cooled and my mind cleared. Then we spoke of vintage cars, and the fact, with which I heartily agreed, that everything made after 1965 is shoddy rubbish, and of the perils of the word reasonable in guarantees and warranties. I was happy to discover that we both knew Fat George, who I have not seen for some time. He then gave me an open invitation to visit him at his flat near to mine, and left, his piercing blue eyes flashing. London was a place of joy today. So yes, it was a good one Nish. Thanks for wishing it for me. Your friend Simon, or at times, Irondome (talk) 21:18, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
You have me more than a tad anxious, dear Simon. I keep erasing long sentences in reply. I'm only relieved that you had a Bloomsian day of it, rare as in the irish sense in the words of the song 'the rare old days'. My brother, my deepest bond, had a breakdown and has had years on 'happy pills', so I can see these things, even in others, with fraternal empathy. He's been well ever since and pulled through, despite large burdens. From what I see between our occasional words, you have rare gifts, and they will pull you through. If my first augury last night worked, I hope my second wish functions as efficiently. I'll keep you in my thoughts. Good friendships often conduct most of their conversation silently, as each thinks of what the other would say, rendering the slippery-sloppiness of actual speech, more discreet, more intimate, and in a sense more companionable. I talk with several people everyday, some are dead technically, the others, like my siblings, are out there, but we only feel the need to chat directly once or year, because we have the habit of thinking about each other every day, silently. And thanks for the vivid vignette. I can see it all as though it had been my day, and wish it had been (4 relatives in hospital today, one at serious risk, another with cancer, another with perhaps dementia praecox, a wonderful woman. I only hope my own cognitive diagnosis of her condition is correct, and the doctors wrong). Very best wishes. Nishi Nishidani (talk) 21:54, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
All will be well Nish. There is a time for everything under the sun. Strip the value laden layers from events, and they become things of growth, or at least the warm commonality of shared human experience. Your words are greatly appreciated mate. I was feeling doom-laden last night. My comments reflected my own internal fears, nothing more. My essential fears that a belief system, however noble or wise, cannot protect a people or an ideal from genocidal hatreds still lurk however. Shalom mate. Si. Irondome (talk) 22:47, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
My only advice to my brother was 'stay out of politics', 'don't get sucked into political arguments'. I regard most news sources as attempts on one's sanity, and most public voices taking sides on this particular issue as wishing to browbeat and twist by sensationalism the broader public into a sense of anxiety and panic. I regret having conversed about these issues given what you now say. Antisemitism is ineradicable, like racism generally, but the institutional safeguards are in place, not against genocide, that is becoming increasingly commonplace -(James Lovelock estimates that 90% of the world's population will not survive the systemic upheavels forseeable through to 2100, for example, and even on an optimistic calculation even if he is only a quarter right, this is structurally going to take place in the Third World, not in the first world). This specific type you fear, which, were it to take place, would be a double genocide, of half the world's Jews and half the world's Palestinians. Their fate is intertwined, and both have a vested interest in each other's survival and dignity. Let's drop the issue. Last night a firefly tried to get into my library. It took a while to cup it harmlessly and gentle it out into the dark. The Chinese of another age would have put it in a lamp, and used its pulsing luminescence to lucubrate over some old manuscript into the wee hours. Stay well, and, whenever, here or by email (if so, nothing political. strictly matey chats), keep in touch. Take this and print it out. お心とお体を大事になさって下さい (okokoro to okarada wo daiji ni nasatte kudasai,'Take care of both your mind/heart and your physical wellbeing)Calligraphy has talismanic power.Best Nishidani (talk) 09:59, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 01 July 2015

Admistrator's Discussion

Hey Irondome! I am afraid I have become ensnared with User EyeTruth again. I mentioned your name as a character witness at the Adminstartor's Edit Warring page. Just an FYI. Thanks. Gunbirddriver (talk) 03:46, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Classic Gunbirddriver, using cleverly picked words to try and polarize the situation. Why didn't you use the same words on the talkpage of the admin that penalized your edit-warring? BTW, Irondom you should check out and may want to contribute to the discussion on the Prokhorovka talkpage, thanks. EyeTruth (talk) 19:03, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
Let's keep it calm men. No reason to get stressed anyone! I'l pop over. Cheers all Simon Irondome (talk) 20:20, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Barnstar

The Barnstar of Diplomacy
Natural diplomats are a dying breed. Please do keep well and thereby ensure the survival of the species Nishidani (talk) 10:46, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
That is very thoughtful of you Nish, and much appreciated. I have been busy the past weeks helping to advance the knowledge of disadvantaged people, and more thoroughly examining some of the little hidden gems of architecture that abound in my little neighbourhood. All is well Nish. I must visit my fish during the week, and take a packet of hobnobs. The fish appreciate them! I hope you are well mate. I've not made an edit in over a week, which is out of character. Hmm.. Cheers Nish! Keep well and K.B.O. Simon. Irondome (talk) 20:17, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
Phew, glad to hear all's well. My dad was an architect, an indirect scion of Frank Lloyd Wright, so I was raised on the topic. Another shared interest. Don't worry about editing. Keep well, anfd if ya feel a bit down in the dumps, catch an hour of the Poms thrashing the living daylights out of those downunder drongos in the Ashes. Best Nishidani (talk) 20:23, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 12

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 12, May-June 2015
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs)

  • New donations - Taylor & Francis, Science, and three new French-language resources
  • Expansion into new languages, including French, Finnish, Turkish, and Farsi
  • Spotlight: New partners for the Visiting Scholar program
  • American Library Association Annual meeting in San Francisco

Read the full newsletter

The Interior 15:23, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 15 July 2015

Back on duty ? I hope so !

Hello Simon,

How are you doing?

I'm sorry for the late reply, but I had a few important commitments to pursue and so, I retired for a short of time, as I felt very afflicted after recent events in my family. I hope to hear soon from you.

Regards Jerome aka Bouquey (talk) 19:39, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXII, July 2015

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If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 22:35, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 22 July 2015

Community desysoping RfC

Hi. You are invited to comment at RfC for BARC - a community desysoping process.--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:08, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the alert Chris. It looks an interesting conversation, gaining some traction. Cheers! Simon Irondome (talk) 12:18, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Stereotypes

I am from the U.K, with a Jewish heritage, which also culturally tends to be rather direct. Yet we seem to agree on a rather direct although not unpleasant initial approach.

Heh, I'm going to have to take you to task for this one. :) Isn't this dangerously bordering on an ethnic stereotype, such as the dreaded pusherke? We can easily make such ethnic, racial, or cultural stereotypes about anyone. In my experience, these things have more to do with social or economic status. I'll never forget going to a Jewish picnic in the 1970s where everyone was eating fried chicken and watermelon. Viriditas (talk) 05:01, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to my chaotic talkpage! You make an acute point User:Viriditas. But the nagging question remains. Were they 'directly' eating fried chicken and watermelon? ;) Irondome (talk) 12:15, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
Yes, they were, and so was I. Although I no longer eat meat, fried chicken and watermelon are delicious. It is sad that African Americans are stuck with this silly stereotype. I understand that they were traditional slave foods in early America, which is why the stereotype was perpetuated. In any case, aside from vegetarians, do you know anyone who dislikes fried chicken and watermelon? I sometimes have dreams about eating watermelon because it's so good. Viriditas (talk) 21:14, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
I love both too. A bizarre stereotype which I was not aware of. How odd that it perpetuates to this time. It would seem a natural regional pairing, regardless of ethnicity. Irondome (talk) 13:57, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 July 2015

NGR, again

Just wanted to give you a heads-up that Iryna Harpy is reviewing the whole No Gun Ri dispute, and will (hopefully) be submitting to ANI in the near future. Lest I be accused of canvassing, I'll leave it at that. However, I think this is probably the best chance we have of resolving this situation.

Thanks for your help,

GAB (talk) 23:05, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Really appreciate the heads up GAB. Been very busy past weeks so my wikitime has dropped a bit. I had assumed that the NGR issue had settled, but I have noticed recently in my brief times online that the issue has flared again to another impasse. I shall keep a watch, as well as time allows. Regards Simon, a.k.a. Irondome (talk) 23:34, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
There is currently an arbitration case open here, and I am not sure exactly how I feel about it. GABHello! 22:30, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Your laughing is requested at

'On a crowded bus, a mother was speaking to her son in Yiddish. An Israeli woman reprimanded her.'You should be speaking Hebrew. Why are you talking to him in Yiddish?' The mother answered.'I don't want he should forget he's Jewish.' Kirk Douglas, The Ragman's Son, 1988 p.203Nishidani (talk) 09:36, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

It is a beautifully subtle distinction which sadly, is not widely "got". That little passage captures it perfectly. The Latin and the "vulgar", the scholar and the milkman. It's good to hear from you Nish. Hope all's well! Simon Irondome (talk) 14:57, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
Well enough to mow the lawns, and harvest an abundant tomato crop, after a close call with an acute, extensively abscesed perforated appendix spilling over into a near lethal peritonitis, July 20th. I'd been put on a green code for some hours, not urgent, due to a certain clinical nonchalance in describing the symptoms as 'bearable', until I keeled over in the waiting room at 4 am. Pulled back to life by good quick butchers' hands an hour short of dancing the light fantastic off our little feverish stage. Only disappointment was that when asked to talk my way through the anaesthetic as they prepared the emergency surgery, I recited the wrote passage from the Odyssey in Greek, not the incipit to the Nekuia, as context would demand, but Book 1, before drifting off under the knife. Cheers, mate.Nishidani (talk) 15:10, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
Just back after some unavoidable off - line time. I missed your last comment Nish. Do be more careful with health matters! (I am the last one to nag..but..) You are needed here, the choir celestial can get along without you for a good few decades yet! Do take care and heal soon mate. Simon Irondome (talk) 14:52, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Schutzstaffel#Time for a revamp!

Your opinion is requested. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 23:29, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Ok Irondome (talk) 14:55, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 12 August 2015

More fun and festivities at No Gun Ri: now featuring at your local Arbcom!

It seems that we have an Arbcom case pending over No Gun Ri. I'd be honored to hear your input. GABHello! 22:14, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

I greatly admire you for your efforts to improve the 'pedia and amazing tenacity GAB :). I fear this will never be resolved, or may end badly, so I am pulling back a little on this topic. My only suggestion (which I have not put out there) is that there be 2 articles. A "straight" NGR article, as we had, and an article directly addressing the AP and Mr Hanley's work. I fear Mr Hanley is too intimately involved to be NPOV on this, and Mr Weldneck is probably the same. I do not doubt for an instant any parties' GF. Just my 2p. Cheers! Simon Irondome (talk) 19:37, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
GAB I applaud your removed sense of cynicism. I feel it helps the digestion. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 21:52, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
Irondome You really need to adjust your archive settings. Scrolling through your talk page is like scrolling through a Master's thesis. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 21:55, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
Good that you're back Tjw. Yeah I really need to find someone who I can persuade to fix it for me. Irondome (talk) 22:04, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
@Timothyjosephwood: I'm not quite sure if you were being sarcastic... If you were serious, then I need to say that I am becoming rather frustrated and cynical about this whole affair. If not, then point taken. @Irondome: This is actually an idea TJW and I considered earlier, although I think it's basically a POVFork right there. Still, good suggestion. GABHello! 22:18, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
@Irondome and Timothyjosephwood: It seems as if we have closure in an unexpected way -- WeldNeck has been blocked as a sock. GABHello! 16:47, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
I genuinely didn't expect that! Irondome (talk) 17:41, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
GAB Wut? How did this come about? Timothyjosephwood (talk) 17:59, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
@Irondome and Timothyjosephwood: See here: [4] TDC's history includes edit-warring on pages related to U.S. war crimes, such as Winter Soldier Investigation. This editor's block log is insane. Most importantly, where do we go from here? GABHello! 18:08, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
TDC was indeffed in 2008, WeldNeck first popped up in 2013. I'm astounded this stayed under the radar. Ironically, WeldNeck was suspected as a sock of Kauffner in 2013, but shown to be unrelated. TDC has a history on the NGR talk page. Out of curiosity, should we strike the NGR talk page comments of this whole sock family? GABHello! 18:19, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
I think they should stay for the record GAB. For a sock, he occasionally made interesting points. I suppose we should carry on as usual. Irondome (talk) 18:42, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
GAB, seems like unnecessary work to try to strike the record. Where to go from here? I still think the article probably needs vetting, it just might go more quickly. Weld was generally obstructionist, in addition to being an American apologist. Hanley is more productive, but generally has an anti-American slant (maybe even anti-Western, as tends to be popular in hip Western circles). Timothyjosephwood (talk) 18:50, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
Roger that, in hindsight I regret ever suggesting striking the comments. This phase of work on the article will be... interesting, at least in a different sort of way. My primary concern is the use of Bateman, since Cjhanley will probably want to remove it, and I am not sure how I stand on it. GABHello! 18:53, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
I want Bateman to be included too. It provides a differing POV, and having the article a straight copy of Mr Hanley's research would not provide a voice for differing viewpoints. Bateman is a RS, and I think it's inclusion is essential. Irondome (talk) 19:17, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

!vote

In programming languages it's a negation, e.g. '(not a) vote' . See: Exclamation mark. In our context because although the comments are numbered, consensus is measured on the strength of the arguments and not on a numerical tally. Well, that's the official version and the way it's supposed to be... --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:25, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing that up Chris, and explaining it so lucidly. Simon Irondome (talk) 17:00, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi

Apologies about a quick edit on your post, but if that's M.'s real name we shouldn't put it out publicly. His user page is consistent with the Wikipedia name he uses, and you do know that his talk page will be stalked by those he has fought with. Let's not give out any real-world leads. Make sense? Thanks, and good to meet you. Randy Kryn 00:18, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

It has been used by some of the arbs. However, I will def revert. Good to meet you too! Simon Irondome (talk) 00:20, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, cool. It's nice to see how much support Malik has here, and I hope he's kicking it up in the sun somewhere. Sometimes it's good to take a break from these inner-nest lands. Enjoy, and see you on the trail now and then. Randy Kryn 2:05, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 19 August 2015

Time of Eichman's death

This has been discussed before. Please look at the subject talk page, the time of death thread, and continue the discussion if you have new thoughts or ideas. Your colleague, Simon. Irondome (talk) 22:15, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
Please give me good information about where to read relevant information, because nothing convincing was available at that place nor in the archive files.
If you do not agree with the "1 June" date, why do you leave that date in the infobox and on the first line of the article ?
Maybe it would be better to carry on that discussion on Eichmann's talk page.
Regards. --Gkml (talk) 22:39, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
I would agree with that. I suggest a new discussion thread, highlighting any concerns about contradictions with the timing in the article there. You raise a good point if there are inconsistencies in the text. I will participate of course. Merci for coming to discuss on my page. Regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 22:47, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXIII, August 2015

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Invitation to WikiProject TAFI

Hello, Irondome. You're invited to join WikiProject Today's articles for improvement, a project dedicated to significantly improving articles with collaborative editing in a week's time.

Feel free to nominate an article for improvement at the project's Article nomination board. If interested in joining, please add your name to the list of members. Thanks for your consideration. North America1000 13:03, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Ah cheers for the invite. Signing up! Simon Irondome (talk) 21:43, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 August 2015

This week's article for improvement (week 36, 2015)

A Old Colony Mennonite family observing the practice of plain dress
Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Plain dress

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

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Posted by: EuroCarGT (talk) 00:10, 31 August 2015 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

Paul Reynaud

You censored my edits as not an improvement, even though (a) they explained Reynaud's flight from Bordeaux, (b) gave his ultimate intended destination, and (c) provided a precise location of the car accident that indirectly led to his imprisonment. Writing in too much haste, I concede I omitted the reference, but this was not cited as the reason. Of the article overall, I am surprised that it is only in this paragraph concerning the car accident that de Portes is mentioned, almost as an aside. As Reynaud's mistress of 10 years, she persistently attempted (on one occasion successfully) to interfere in the affairs of state, to the huge irritation of the French govt., Churchill (whom she once physically attacked), and de Gaulle. The reference omitted is: Pelayo, D. (2009) L'accident de Paul Reynaud. l'Agglorieuse. [5]. Regards, Ptelea (talk) 13:07, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

I appreciate you getting back to me on my talk page, and your constructive tone. I suggest you transfer the citation already existent on the HdP article regarding her death. That should cover it. I am well aware of Madame de Portes, having first read of her in Alistair Horne's excellent To Lose A Battle. France 1940, way back in 1980, and the great pen portraits of her he creates, and his impressions of her influence on M. Reynaud. I agree she did have great influence on Reynaud's state of mind, especially in the final days. I suggest you add the ref to the Reynaud article. That would improve it considerably. Regards, Simon Irondome (talk) 13:20, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 09 September 2015

September 2015

Information icon Hello, I'm Ogress. Wikipedia is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a neutral point of view. Your recent edit to Neoconservativism seemed less than neutral to me, so I removed it for now. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Your edit on Neoconservativism was removed for its antisemitic commentary. "Most" Jews are not Zionists. Ogress 00:31, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker): I don't think there's anything explicitly anti-Semitic about saying "Most Jews are Zionists," regardless of what statistics were used. The previous IP's rationale for making the edit ("the fascist political [sic] ideology of zionism") was clearly malicious, and a real exemplar of WP:TE. Just my two cents, feel free to ignore me. GABHello! 01:28, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
@User:OgressTotally agree with GAB above. Amazing Orwellian doublethink accusing a Jew who supports Jewish national identity, (most Jews being Zionist of one persuasion or another) of being anti semitic!!! Does your ideological fog not allow you to grasp the amazing hatred of the previous edit summary, and the incredible irony of accusing a Jew who supports self-determination (a universally accepted human right except for Jews, according to the far left and its fellow travelers, The far right, jihadists, who all in common use the noble term "Zionist" in a perverted form as a semantically politically correct cover of their racism) for Jews as being anti semitic? You are within a whisker of a personal attack. Irondome (talk) 12:22, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 38, 2015)

Transection of a human head
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Head

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Short, but entertaining!

I'm in the process of recording a short film in which I perform a bunch of card tricks and flourishes that will air on my local television station. I'll also put it up on YouTube for the world to see. Here is some cool stuff I recorded shortly before we began shooting. Enjoy! :) Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 21:56, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

NGR...again

We really could use some outside opinion on No Gun Ri Massacre. Hanley and I have been going back and forth and I'm not sure that we can forge a path forward without a third party. Give it a look see if you can. All the thanks. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 19:40, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Tjw. Good to hear from you. I will attempt to be helpful, without treading on any toes. I think it is as I originally feared though, no offence meant to any colleague. Irondome (talk) 19:58, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
Originally feared? I've kindof taken over as the adversarial party since Weld got indeffed. It's a relatively minor dispute. But we can't reach consensus with only two people, especially when one (me) is trying to be intentionally adversarial for the sake of rhetoric. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 20:20, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) I wonder if Iryna Harpy and Wikimedes might also be interested... although I don't want to drag either back into this situation against their wishes. GABHello! 20:23, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
Well its just turning from the weldneck version to mr. Hanleys version. I admire his expertise hugely, but I do worry that he has too much invested in the article. Emotionally and professionally. Irondome (talk) 20:32, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
That's why I contacted you two. WM has actively voiced their wishes to bow out of the conversation, and, AFAIK, Harpy just hasn't been as deeply involved, but I may be mistaken. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 20:33, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
Given that Weld was indeffed for being a sock, and consistent disruptor of articles that may shame the US, and Hanley actually was there on the ground, I think it may be an improvement. What we have now is a relatively minor dispute about how the story of the event should be portrayed. It's an editorial issue. But we can't establish consensus with two people. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 20:38, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
Mr Hanley certainly seems much more reasonable and amenable to compromise than Weld ever was. Irondome (talk) 21:13, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
Agreed. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 21:17, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
Righto then. Some of the recent proposals have looked ok. Yes you have been playing devil's advocate Timothy, and very effectively :) Irondome (talk) 21:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
(ec) I haven't had time to respond to Mr Hanley's ping, nor engage in the article (much ado and cite checking on Eastern European subject matter as per usual), although I've set a myself a reminder to look over it. Going on instinct, I think Hanley is amenable to compromise, and am reminding myself of the fact that WeldNeck's long term disruption has left a residual bad taste bound to impact on him until he can learn to relax with reasonable editors. I'd prefer to stay in the wings and just observe unless I detect an overt attempt to turn the content into a POV, op-ed piece. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 21:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
Once again, my apologies for needless pings; I recognize that everyone has lots to do elsewhere, not even mentioning their actual lives. Things are proceeding exponentially better, that's for sure. Re-establishing the same atmosphere as other articles will take time. GABHello! 21:59, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
@GeneralizationsAreBad: Please, no need to apologise. I'm more than happy to be pinged if my input could be of use. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:48, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

H.4 Hercules - See Also

Hi there, please see Andy Dingley's talk page, just checking if my interpretation of your comment ('no burning POV issues') is right in relation to adding Curtiss and Porte to the See Also section? Many thanks80.229.34.113 (talk) 09:36, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 16 September 2015

The Bugle: Issue CXIV, September 2015

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This week's article for improvement (week 39, 2015)

"Boy on white horse" by Theodor Kittelsen
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Scottish mythology

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WikiProject Military history coordinator election

Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 29 September. Yours, Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 05:21, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 40, 2015)

Personal finance – an example image of personal budget planning software
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Question

Does removal of long standing text in an article count as a revert? Settleman (talk) 22:32, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

No. That is an edit. A revert is an action where inserted material is removed, usually immediately after it has been added. Removal of "long standing" material however should be always justified in the article's talk page, to explain rationale and to gain consensus. Is this a hypothetical scenario? Simon Irondome (talk) 00:34, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Happy Rosh HaShanah

Hope you'll forgive me for being tardy on this, I was away following with my sister the ancestral songlines of the family through Ireland's backwoods this week. Just got back, and haven't had time, since I don't think sleeping is a profitable way to tour, to catch up on forty thousand winks lost to Irish chowder and large pints of local beers. I did note your sensible intervention over at the Settleman Boomerang issue: I think any punitive measure is premature there (for him at least!). There are problems - apart from the POV clash of course, more or less a very extensive citation of policy without quite grasping the practical way it works. It's not looking well for him, so some, I'd say, informal consultancy with yourself might be enough as a resolution, perhaps offline, emails, etc. As soon as I get time I'll drop a note to that effect on the A/I page. Very good of you to offer your assistance. My best regards and I do hope you had as enjoyable a New Year's beginning in congenial company and environs as I did touring with my little boil and blister. Cheers mate.Nishidani (talk) 18:32, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I mentioned to a gardener in Kells one of my ancestor's names from south of that area and he said, 'Bejayzus, there's one of them up in Kilkenny now, and I've been thinken since I laid oiyes on ye, that yer 'is spitten image. Now ye woife 'ere .' 'Um, that's not my wife, mate. She's my sister.' (Silence) . .'Uh, oh, well I was goin to say something but . . .' 'Go ahead, I'm never embarrassed'. ' Well,' the man replied,'that she can't be ye sister, I mean, she's very preety, whereas you're loike ye relative here . .you knoow.. a greyt eccentric, but not quoite - -um . .handsum!'Nishidani (talk) 18:37, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
Hi Nish. A happy and peaceful 5776 to you too! I am back, so the project can sleep soundly in its bunk/four poster bed/sleeping bag/flea pit, etc. Visited Chester, a remarkable example of an almost completely walled city, drowning in casually placed antiquities and artifacts. I noticed a strong civic pride. Tired, not happy to be back in Londinium and generally pissed off. Your supportive and positive comments on the AN were much appreciated. I am quite happy to quietly assist all parties, as always. Hope you are well mate, and you are fully recovered! The lacklustre user known to some as Simon. Irondome (talk) 00:47, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
I'm glad to see you adding your voice to the Debresser tiff. It did look (it wasn't) like ganging up. I commented there because, honestly, I must have noticed Dovid overstepping 1R a dozen times this last year, and I can remembering notifying him 2 or 3 times quietly just to fix it. Often he won't, as recently. I gave him a week - no. Unlike I think several I/P editors I labour under the impression that I work well with D: Now I have problems with 1R, and after numerous cases, I finally hired Nableezy who has mastered its complexities, to look in everytime someone asks me to revert. Whatever call he makes, I follow. If he confirms a 1R violation I instantly revert. Often, as with Settleman's recent request on my page, he will decide in my favour. He is a stickler on this, and neutral. Dovid definitely need a 'Nableezy' like expert from 'his side'. Someone who can glance over the diffs and confirm or dismiss a charge he has broken IR, and whose judgement he trusts enough to follow the call. No need to discuss this here or reply and it is unrelated to the merits or not of H's case at EW, where I will not participate. Best regards from the at times irascible, weary bronchitis ridden Nishidani (talk) 10:02, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
Hi Nish. I worry about your health at the moment. For Gd's look after yourself. I've recently just come out of a shite bronchial thing. You once, aeons ago it seems, said if you ever sounded different, I was to mention. Well I did, in the most dignified and sensitive manner I could. I also appealed for some sanity. I was somewhat moved to see you have put it on as a little reminded to yourself on your T/P. Please understand my motivations for raising it. I think we are both under the weather my old mate. As for the Dovid incident, again I attempted to make an overarching statement, a position if you like. I don't think it got through to anyone. I may not get further involved in I/P, as I do not think I am known or trusted enough. I like to think my NPOV is apparent, but at the mo I feel like leaving the project altogether. Merely due to incompetence and emotional immaturity. I will leave it to the grown ups maybe. Cheers Nish, I do hope you are feeling less rough. Your mate, Simon Irondome (talk) 15:13, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
Simon! It's good to be what idioms dismisses as far too sensitive, particularly in this world. Unless you are, you miss everything. It has its costs of course. I feel, I once said, a lingering anguish if I step on a snail, and to avoid going to sleep with a sense of unease, I usually, with my wife, get a bucket and pick them off the gardens as the afternoon dwindles, and ferry them to safe uncultivated land nearby, so that I can make my usual saunter, to watch the stars come out or just look at the afterglow of dusk, without harming them, and (egotistically) my own self-consciousness. You are unfair to yourself, or to the way others perceive you. Your point registered with me. I'm not 'others' but I've found in your voice nothing but an intelligent decency. Illness, Thomas Mann taught my early adolescence, is conducive to heightened perceptiveness. If you leave, by all means do so serenely, for your own interests, wellbeing, etc., without thinking a withdrawal has anything to do with an imagined 'incompetence or immaturity'. I think you were a key to MM staying on board, and she may well prove to be a long term asset, whatever our differences. Take a break, then, mate, by all means. The only thing I ask is that, every few months, say round New Year, if you do, you drop a note to assure me things are going well with you. Best Nishidani (talk) 16:50, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
No, i'm not going anywhere Nish. I stay. I have run away from too many things in my past "R/L", and I try not to anymore. I will be the pest, the still small voice, reminding all colleagues, of whatever POV, if they transgress from the spirit of the project, and emotional intelligence. I shall also actively edit far more in the I/P realm. Please watch my back on this Nish, and I give you carte blanche to pull me up in whatever fashion you choose, if I screw up. Gnight me old mate. The heavily perspiring Simon, often known as Irondome (talk) 22:28, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Revert

Hi,

Thank you for you revert. If you don't mind can you join the talk?

It seems like the other editor is trying to push some fringe points of view. Xenon47 (talk) 11:34, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 13

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 13, August-September 2015
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs)

  • New donations - EBSCO, IMF, more newspaper archives, and Arabic resources
  • Expansion into new languages, including Viet and Catalan
  • Spotlight: Elsevier partnership garners controversy, dialogue
  • Conferences: PKP, IFLA, upcoming events

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This week's article for improvement (week 41, 2015)

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Musical composition

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This week's article for improvement (week 42, 2015)

Costumed performers from the 2006 Bristol Renaissance Faire
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Costume

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The Bugle: Issue CXV, October 2015

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If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 21:47, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Gatling gun

The problems with the statements there:

  • The Puckle Gun did not have a "rotating chamber mechanism," the rotation of the chambers was done by unscrewing the cylinder and then rotating it by hand. Comparing this to the design of the Gatling implies the Puckle Gun was in some way automated, which it wasn't.
  • The Gatling Gun was effectively a rack of bolt-action rifles which operated their actions as it rotated; this is far more than just multiple chambers.
  • The mitrailleuse can't really be compared to the Gatling since the multiple barrels did not have the same purpose; in Gatling's weapon each barrel was firing in a cycle which would generate heat, while the mitrailleuse had multiple barrels because it allowed more rounds to be loaded into the gun at once since it could not cycle by itself. Making a mitrailleuse overheat would be practically impossible since you simply couldn't change the block out quickly enough; if it had a single barrel it would just be a breech-loading rifle. In fact, the cluster of barrels close together in the mitrailleuse would actually result in more heat since it would diffuse from the central barrels to the outer ones.

The key difference between the Gatling and earlier weapons was that it had a cycle of function which allowed it to index and load cartridges through mechanical actions within the weapon, not just that it had a gravity feed. Herr Gruber (talk) 02:02, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

On the whole I agree with the majority of the above. However, was the Gatling gun a true Semi-automatic in the strictest, modern sense? It appears to be a gravity fed, mechanical manually operated weapon. I have no major POV on this, merely technical interest. If you wish revert, and start a new thread on the T/P. Regards, Simon Irondome (talk) 02:10, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Oh, it's not semi-automatic, I just said "self-loading" when I meant to say "repeating." Herr Gruber (talk) 02:21, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Ah ok. I get you now. Then it is just a question of minor rewording Irondome (talk) 02:26, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 14 October 2015

This week's article for improvement (week 43, 2015)

Ice hockey is an example of a team sport. Pictured is an 1893 ice hockey match at Victoria Rink, Montreal.
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Request your attention

Hi Simon,

May I gather your attention on the topic to the Equipment losses in World War II?

User Thaiduong123 persisting with disruptive edits for an edit-war. The editor is also enganging on revisionism to a cited content: 1, 2, 3, 4 - while the source for the tank exchange ratio is unambiguous: Zaloga, Ness: The Red Army Handbook 1939-1945 p. 118 (see image) Also, the additional table the editor have provided, seem to be very inadequate and incomplete.

Need your support, thanks. Regards Jérôme. Bouquey (talk) 15:54, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Thaiduong123 appears to have withdrawn the revision to the cited content, apparently after my request to you and GBD: 1 However, the point to the disruptive edits still stands, how should I proceed? Thanks, regards Bouquey (talk) 12:29, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
Hi Jerome, sorry I have been off-wiki for a while, just back. Don't do anything now is my advice. Looks like an edit conflict that self-resolved after the other party got the point. Hope all is well. What are you working on at present? Simon Irondome (talk) 15:34, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello Simon, no need to apologize, it's okay. :) I felt a bit lost in case, as the other editor refused to talk. Either way, I'm glad that the conflict has resolved itself. I'm doing well, thank you for your concern. How about you?
You mean on WP? Well, I have a great affinity for modeling Japanese aircraft, because of that, I'll try my best to improve some articles, slowly but steady. However, thank you for your valuable advice. Best regards Jerome Bouquey (talk) 17:18, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Help with another editor

I am wondering if you can help me? I joined recently and unfortunately have had a rather bad experience when editing a certain page. Since I started trying to improve it I have been accused of various things: 'sock pupperty' and 'SPAs' among other things; had substantial new edits just deleted without discussion first, had relatively rude message left on my talk page and had various constructive changes blocked consistently without any meaningful discussion on the talk page. I am struggling really to understand this and I can't believe that it is a normal experience for a new user as I am sure that this project would have failed long ago if it was. I was just wondering if you would mind having a look at the page and the comments on my talk page and let me know what you think? Sorry to be a bother. Noah's_Ark_Zoo_Farm Thanks. Gloucestershiredad (talk) 19:22, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi there. I apologise for the late reply. Unfortunately I have little to no knowledge of this area of interest, so I probably would not be of help. But some more general points; New editors do get additional scrutiny, especially if they are working in confined areas (it happened to me in my early days). It is nothing personal. Please read the guidance that I see has been placed at your disposal, try to widen your editing subjects a little, and do not get stressed. WP:AGF is probably the cement that holds this edifice together. Always keep it to the fore. I am sure, and certainly hope you stay, and become a permanenet member of the community. With kind regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 22:45, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

"After World War II, Boss was fined for his support of Nazism and was not allowed to vote"

Wait a God damn minute! The post-war German government strongly condemned the policies of Nazi Germany, but practiced the same laws on their enemies? The irony is so thick it makes me furious, furious I tell you! Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 21:57, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Jonas, what are you on about? But LOL, it sounds very ironically humourous :) Good to hear from you! Simon Irondome (talk) 22:47, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

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This week's article for improvement (week 44, 2015)

Models promoting Zombieland at San Diego Comic-con. A zombie comedy is a horror comedy subgenre that involves zombies.
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Comedy horror

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Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Hey. I reverted here because your previous revert of 50.5.87.37 was incomplete and had effectively re-added a second instance of the same image to the article. As I explained in my edit summary. I assume one instance of the image is enough. Do you want to fix it or should I? AtticusX (talk) 02:41, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi! I already fixed it, I self reverted. Strange I didn't see the duplication. Old age ;) Simon Irondome (talk) 02:43, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Cool. It happens to the best of us. AtticusX (talk) 02:45, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

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The Signpost: 28 October 2015

This week's article for improvement (week 45, 2015)

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Allegra Versace

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Carruthers copy paste from Wikipedia

Hey, if you have a chance, I'd like your opinion on the discussion here. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by MaxRavenclaw (talk • contribs) 08:33, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

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This week's article for improvement (week 46, 2015)

Marie Serneholt at the 48th Guldbagge Awards.
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Marie Serneholt

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TAFI talk

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Response to "Panther edits".

I do not have time for discussions. My edits indicate the intentions and the summaries explain them further. If not understood, it is not my fault. The lead was so poorly written that I did not want to deal with its authors. They must learn from my edits... whether they can or it is difficult... obviously.--67.87.189.39 (talk) 06:39, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Well IP, I would suggest you find the time from your busy schedule, a large part of which appears to be spent disrupting a lede which has been stable for over a year, with badly worded edits which do not reflect existing citations and your unsufferably arrogant edit summaries. Your English skills are sub-standard and your attitude to co-operation appears to be non- existent, indeed contemptuous. Both poor omens for your tenure here. Now I am going to clean up the mess you have made of the lede. Any further communication please confine to the Panther Talk Page. Irondome (talk) 20:17, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

I would ask you to discuss your edits at the Panther Talk Page. They are often sweeping and have re-inserted material that WP:CONSENSUS has determined it would be inadvisable to use. I would suggest you communicate to editing colleagues via the talk page rather than often hard to understand edit summaries. I appreciate your future co-operation in this collaborative work. Simon. Irondome (talk) 21:15, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

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This week's article for improvement (week 47, 2015)

A continuum of goods and services
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Goods and services

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The Bugle: Issue CXVI, November 2015

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Bot automation at Wikipedia:Today's articles for improvement

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Over the past two weeks, there has been extensive discussion on introducing bot automation to assist with maintenance of the Today's Articles for Improvement project. A bot has now been approved for trial and will carry out the weekly duties. The bots first run will occur around 00:00, 22 November 2015 (UTC) (midnight on Sunday).

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ding

Hello, Simon Adler. Please check your email; you've got mail!
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Bless you Simon. --Monochrome_Monitor 18:42, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Hey!

Corbyn won't win of course, but were he to, I would hope he'd show good sense in getting Ed Miliband as his Foreign Minister. Hope all's well, Simon. Not bothering to reply will signal things are going smoothly.:)Nishidani (talk) 14:52, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

A response does not indicate profound crisis Nish, although I have had an indifferent fortnight. (Roughly translated, everyone is a bastard and they are all out to get me ;)) I think Ed resigned far too readily. As you say, Corbyn is unelectable and too idealistic to be in the world of Westminster politics. Cameroon et al have their feet firmly under the mace for the forseeable future. I have been reading with great interest the exchanges on Talk, Jews. You should not give up on it. The quality is improving somewhat. Yours aye! Simon. Irondome (talk) 20:33, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

A Dobos torte for you!

7&6=thirteen (☎) has given you a Dobos Torte to enjoy! Seven layers of fun because you deserve it.


To give a Dobos Torte and spread the WikiLove, just place {{subst:Dobos Torte}} on someone else's talkpage, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend.

7&6=thirteen (☎) 11:34, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Wow! A knower of good cake is always a friend of mine :) Thank you kindly! Simon Irondome (talk) 16:01, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

ACE2015

Hi, Irondrome. Thank you for your confidence. Does this mean you will be publishing a voter guide? Personally I think however that the mass canvassing this year is going to do more harm than good and will dilute the genuine , well considered votes. If Ive understood correctly , there were over 1,500 votes cast in the first 24 hiurs. On another note, something we discussed a while back, are you ready to go ahead? Now might be a good time both practically and politically. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:32, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Always good to "see" you here Chris. My views on a proportion of candidates may not translate well into a formal voter guide on WP. Therefore, regrettably I shall leave that task to others. There are several incisive guides already in circulation. I am basing my vote on a mixture of research, guides and some recent events. I believe the mass canvassing and the high turnout are somewhat co-incidental. I believe recent events have "politicised" many thoughtful volunteers of good standing and respectable tenure. From your reading of my "performance" here, and in terms of attitude and temperament, do I pass your RfA criteria? Frankly, I have nothing to lose, and even a failed run will not destroy me. The feedback would be invaluable. That is not a yes, but a provisional acceptance of the concept. I am aware that the potential window may be brief however. Simon Irondome (talk) 01:58, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Check your goddamned email!!! --Monochrome_Monitor 04:06, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

  • MONGO happy to support Rfa if that happens but usually wait until lots of supports...if MONGO support too early, drive many sane people away. Also, in humble opinion, talk page archiving needed to avoid page crashes.--MONGO 18:36, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
You right MONGO but I can't fix. I screwed up archive settings and don't know how to fix. Think much early evidence of what a dumb plonker Irondome was in early months may be lost to history, and the amusement of others. A disaster for seasoned twatwatchers and those interested in their evolution. V kind MONGO, but i dunno. Too softhearted methinks sometimes. Glad MONGO got beer :) Irondome (talk) 18:53, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
I usually just do a copy paste to an archive page...that's not the way to do it but it works for me and no complaints.--MONGO 20:56, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 November 2015

All of the above still applies

Nuff said? Any further editing of the article on this subject without gaining a consensus for your inclusion first Will be dealt with. Thanks. John from Idegon (talk) 01:01, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

You are incorrect, bullying and appear to have extreme bias and possibly personal and/or political motivations for your actions

YOU appear to be engaging in an edit war to keep out information which has been the subject of articles throughout the United States and overseas. Here are just a few examples from blogs which reach readers throughout the U.S. (i.e. Atlas Shrugged, anti-semitism.net) as well as overseas:

Articles Directly Relating to the Retaliation:

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2015/01/school-retaliates-against-student-for.html

https://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2015/01/30/massachussetts-school-retaliates-against-student-for-parents-opposition-to/

http://www.anti-semitism.net/?s=%22Parents+for+Excellence%22

http://pamelageller.com/2015/01/massachusetts-school-retaliates-against-student-for-parents-opposition-to-pro-islam-anti-israel-propaganda.html/

There are also dozens of articles written about the successful effort by the parents of the student who was retaliated against to remove inaccurate and biased class material. The bias of these materials has been the subject of articles and reports from major Jewish, education, and media organizations including the Anti-Defamation League, American Jewish Congress, Committee on Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), Jewish Telegraph Agency, Fordham Foundation, Textbook League, Scholars for Peace in the Middle East, Verity Educate (which published a 153-page report on the matter), etc.

You may not consider the ADL, CAMERA, Fordham Foundation (a major education policy leader), the AJC, or similar organizations to be "important", but that's just one person's opinion. Literally millions of others disagree.

There are currently two local organizations addressing the textbook and retaliation controversies, as well as the national organizations mentioned above. This is hardly an issue that has been 'scarcely mentioned outside of the local area'.

The fact that school officials have broken the law to retaliate against a high school student for his/her parent's objection to inappropriate class materials (which in fact the Superintendent agreed with, as the material was later removed) is just as relevant, or even more so, than a superintendent's plagiarism or the violation of open meeting laws. It is directly related to the Textbook Controversy which you accept is a legitimate part of the article.

Neither a a superintendent's plagiarism or the violation of open meeting laws have any direct effect on students. Retaliation against a student, however, has major repercussions on both the student and the school community as a whole. Certainly it is just as worthy, if not more so, for inclusion in this article.

As well, your tone is inappropriately hostile and bullying: "Nuff said?" "will be dealt with" are attempts to belittle and threaten which are inappropriate in editing a Wikipedia article. The inaccurate and false claims that I am engaging in an edit war, when you have reverted numerous edits wholesale without any attempt to explain your reasoning, is inverting the facts. The same is true of previous edits which were being reverted while I was still in the process of editing. It is obvious that your edits are not being made in good faith as you have made no attempt at all to engage with me other than threats.

The Retaliation issue has been considered and adjudicated by a state agency, and two federal agencies are also investigating the matter. Being the subject of a federal investigation is hardly a trivial matter. I did not include that fact in the article because I believed that doing so before a judgement was reached would be prejudicial; however since you apparently need 'proof' that the issue is an important one, I will include it in my next edit to make you happy.

Additional articles regarding events related to the Retaliation (a limited number, as I don't want to spend all night copying URLs):

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/187870

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2014/11/what-newton-public-schools-pro.html

http://www.jns.org/latest-articles/2014/6/13/anti-israel-text-remained-in-schools-longer-than-officials-let-on-research-shows

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_email.cfm/blog_id/52473/Boston-Jewish-Leadership-caught-in-deception-over-Newton-Schools-disputed-texts

http://www.heritagefl.com/story/2013/04/19/news/adl-downplays-controversy-over-anti-israel-texts-in-curriculum-of-newton-mass/562.html

SurfRI (talk) 04:25, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

(there's one or two more paragraphs but apparently I didn't copy all of them).

(end of what I posted, which was deleted by an unknown person an hour later)

You won't see all of the above on the 'Talk' page because someone deleted not only my post but some of the more obnoxious/bullying posts prior to that. They also deleted the last six months of the History section. People aren't allowed to do that, are they?

This has gone beyond crazy. I'm sure people aren't supposed to just delete people's posts on the Talk page or parts of the History page. I'm going to take a screenshot of what's there now (it includes the above post which I made a couple of hours ago) so I have some evidence.

What can I do about this? This really and truly insane. Is this common in Wikipedia (I'm assuming not)?

BTW, another editor intervened (informally) in July and cited a lot of 'facts' which aren't true; he came down very heavily on the side of the people who deleted my posts (including some that I was still writing at the time) and did not seem to be interested in resolving the issue or being neutral at all.

Obviously, I really need some help.

Thanks, SurfRI

(talk) 04:25, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello SurfRI. It is not usual for editors to delete talk page posts unless there is obvious trolling, severe personal attacks, or obvious vandalism. A mere disagreement of opinion would not warrant any deletions. From the material you have posted, one editor appears to be at least attempting to constructively engage, although highlighting a host of guidelines may not be helpful in itself. The other appears to be adding nothing to the debate and should disengage. As this is at the moment, (and I would like it to stay that way) a minor content dispute, I suggest you take this matter to WP:DRN where neutral, uninvolved editors will give their opinions as to be best way forward. I hope this helps at this stage. Regards Irondome (talk) 20:59, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Archiving

(talk page stalker) Hey there, I've just noticed that you used the cut-and-paste method wrongly as your archive box is actually an automatic archive parameter. So, it will not work. If you need help, ask someone who is good at these things, like administrators. :) Vincent60030 (talk) 15:27, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Vincent60030 Irondome (talk) 16:57, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Of fools ... and cabbages and kings

Re: this. You cannot possibly make a fool of yourself by creating an article. The fact that we have 5 million is proof of that ;) Give me a shout if you need some help. I remember Berni Inns in a vague sort of way and there was a very recent TV programme that sort-of mentioned them. Of course, back then, my parents were too poor and I was too young to take advantage of the offerings - the programme may have been right in proposing that they were at the forefront of a democratisation of "new" and even "exotic" experiences, and of eating-out in general, but I think that their clientele was pretty, um, stratified in its own right. It floated their (melon) boat but the likes of my family didn't even get to the harbour. Happy days! - Sitush (talk) 02:17, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

I had better start creating content then! I assume stubs are acceptable, and I can develop them. "From little acorns" etc. I have about a dozen in mind intially, from the sublime to the banal, but amusing for all that. Melon boat anecdote avoided ;) Your encouraging note from such a great creator is much appreciated. Simon Irondome (talk) 02:27, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Of course stubs are acceptable. The primary criteria is the same as always; GNG, V and RS. There are many, many people here who are better content creators than I will ever be but we've all got to start somewhere and I don't think we ever stop learning. You can pretty much guarantee that all of those who regularly commented on Eric's talk page are among that group, and I can't think of one who wouldn't be willing to help. We're supposed to be all in this together. Except, alas, sometimes lately it seems like we're not! - Sitush (talk) 03:26, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
I have become very aware of that in the past months Sitush, those who want to create a unique, academically respected on-line work, and those who wish to essentially hijack many core subject areas for reasons of political activism, and create a politically correct atmosphere enforced by the occupation of key posts. A climate of fear for free thinking colleagues is developing. Social experiments have no place here. My voting choice attempted to "make a difference" in that respect. I fear for the future of the project, unless it returns to its core mission. I genuinely wish to add to content, and again, your words are greatly appreciated. I shall act on them. Regards, Irondome (talk) 03:57, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Nominations for the Military history WikiProject historian and newcomer of the year awards now open!

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Content

Just here to vent... In any case, there were 38 total Waffen-SS divisions, while the Wehrmacht fielded, what, around 800 (?). So why does 12th Panzer Division (Wehrmacht) gets one paragraph, while Hitlerjugend, that fought for less than a year, gets 10 pages of fluff, drama and "Neo-Nazi idea of literary style" (as you so elegantly put it), including many paragraphs on "formation and training" alone? That paragraph on the competition for the insignia was even longer before, BTW.

Thankfully, the HJ fanboy content was intermingled with some well-researched copy from English-speaking historians, proving some 'back-to-reality' relief. Well, anyway, the struggle continues. K.e.coffman (talk) 08:34, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 14

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Books & Bytes
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by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs)

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The Interior, via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:12, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

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Editing

Could you edit the page 2010 in film in this way; see this:

Highest-grossing films of 2010[1]
Rank Title Studio Worldwide gross
1. Toy Story 3 Walt Disney Pictures / Pixar $1,063,171,911
2. Alice in Wonderland Walt Disney Pictures $1,025,467,110
3. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows – Part 1 Warner Bros. $960,283,305
4. Inception Warner Bros. / Legendary $825,532,764
5. Shrek Forever After Paramount / DreamWorks $752,600,867
6. The Twilight Saga: Eclipse Summit Entertainment $698,491,347
7. Iron Man 2 Paramount / Marvel Studios $623,933,331
8. Tangled Walt Disney Pictures $591,794,936
9. Despicable Me Universal / Illumination $543,113,985
10. How to Train Your Dragon Paramount / DreamWorks $494,878,759

Did you understand what I am saying; I am asking to edit this page according to this way. I would ask you to edit pages 2011 in film and 2012 in film in this way.I have already talked about this in talk pages but no ones cared about it (see:Talk:2010 in film,Talk:2011 in film and Talk:2012 in film ) and they didn't do anything.I can not edit these three pages because these are semi-protected, but you can.User talk:2.86.255.196

IP, why don't you just register, then you can do it youself? You already seem to have high technical knowledge, so I assume you are an old hand here. Irondome (talk) 01:48, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
IP, please stop placing this request and its table on numerous editor's talk pages. They are all giving you the same answer. Much more of it and you'll be on the receiving end of sanctions for annoying people. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:52, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "2010 Worldwide Grosses". Box Office Mojo. Retrieved February 13, 2012.

This week's article for improvement (week 51, 2015)

The word scandal is used a few times in several bibles like Douay–Rheims Bible.
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Season's Greetings

File:Xmas Ornament.jpg

To You and Yours!
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This week's article for improvement (week 52, 2015)

Hors d'oeuvre, also known as an appetizer or starter, is a food item served before the main courses of a meal.
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Season's Greetings
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The Bugle: Issue CXVII, December 2015

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This week's article for improvement (week 53, 2015)

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Tiger I

Undergoing maintenance I see, looking good. GraemeLeggett (talk) 19:03, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

That's appreciated Graeme. Will continue on, pruning, clarifying and attempting to shorten some of the more rambling sections. Obviously I will respect existing sources and underlying article structure. That German penetration test thingy primary source worries me a bit. Working around it. It seems to be propping up much of that section. Cheers mate Irondome (talk) 19:12, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Please join me on the talk page for the Tiger I. I'm trying to figure out something. You're opinion would be appreciated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tiger_I#Mobility_and_Reliability --MaxRavenclaw (talk) 11:23, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

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Best wishes

Hope all is well, and this infinitely cantankerous ratbag editor just wishes to barge in and wish you, at this secular version of the New year, all the best for the coming one, dear Simon. Best regards Nishidani (talk) 20:31, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

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King Mswati III, the monarch of Swaziland, one of the Monarchies in Africa.
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Depictions of various deities on the entrance tower of Sri Mariamman Temple, Singapore, dedicated to the Hindu goddess of rain; Mariamman.
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The Bugle: Issue CXVIII, January 2016

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This week's article for improvement (week 5, 2016)

The slaughtered swine (1652) by Barent Fabricius, a depiction of a killed animal
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Invitation to the Google Doodle task force

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This week's article for improvement (week 6, 2016)

Delivery trucks in San Salvador, El Salvador
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Hi! My name is Austa and I am taking a class this semester on Wikipedia and how to edit Wiki articles. For one of our assignments we are required to choose a WikiProject to edit and add to. I chose the Beer WikiProject and wanted to reach out to you to see which articles you think could use some help, or if you needed help with any other aspects of the WikiProject!

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Austa

This week's article for improvement (week 7, 2016)

An iceberg, which is relatively cold.
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Books & Bytes - Issue 15

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 15, December-January 2016
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs), UY Scuti (talk · contribs)

  • New donations - Ships, medical resources, plus Arabic and Farsi resources
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The Interior via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:20, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

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This week's article for improvement (week 8, 2016)

Several of the commonly known molecules.
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ani

Sorry about that its just you strike out accidently multiple comments and the below section, possibly a visual editor glitch if that was used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zppix (talk • contribs) 15:32, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

T:Thats fine. I was striking out a point about mentoring and we had an edit conflict. Weird glitch! Simon Irondome (talk) 15:38, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
Actually it was careless typing on my part. No glitch. Irondome (talk) 16:03, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Irving etc

So far I'm the only one warning him. Doug Weller talk 16:47, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi Doug. Just back from a six week wikibreak, so I am taking things slow. I do not want to over-react, but I sense the usual groundhog day crap with this one. I will leave a supporting message. I didn't want to be dragged to the boards for alleged edit warring in my first 24 hours back, or some such crap so I refrained from reverting. Thanks mate. Simon Irondome (talk) 16:55, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CXIX, February 2016

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This week's article for improvement (week 9, 2016)

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Mentoring - compliment

Hi Irondome, I'd just like to take a minute to extend my compliments for agreeing to take on a mentor role here and for working with struggling editors. I feel this is very important work for editor retention and you clearly have a suitable temperament for it. Thank you, and please know that your work is valued and appreciated. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 23:29, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi there Spike. Your compliment is greatly appreciated, and your taking time to drop it here. I have had a brief discussion with a much repected editor here on mentoring. I have drafted a few basic points which could make a useful essay. Unsure if any mentoring essays exist. I have not seen any. I see mentoring as a much under-used option on the 'pedia. Once again, thanks for dropping by! Regards, Simon a.k.a. Irondome (talk) 02:37, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/GeneralizationsAreBad

Please vote! :) Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your prize!) 23:36, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, I did something wrong the first time. The error has been corrected. Please vote now! :) Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your prize!) 09:18, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 10, 2016)

Eugene Delacroix - Liberty Leading the People
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Revert 709089165

You reverted my edit with the comment: "youtube is not a WP:RS"

Please look at my edit carefully. Your comment does not apply to any of the video references that I used. Every video comes from the official Youtube account of a news agency or a government office. These all qualify as reliable sources under Wikipedia's rules.

Wikipedia:Video links states:

There are channels on YouTube for videos uploaded by agencies and organizations that are generally considered reliable sources, such as the Associated Press's channel. These official channels are typically accepted.

Template:YouTube exists for a reason. Even if I find the same video at the government's own web site, it will probably become a dead link in a few years. By linking to Youtube, the reference remains relevant for much longer.

Tototo30 (talk) 03:30, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Tototo30 That is fully acceptable then. Thank you for the link. I may utilise it myself. Have you reverted or do you want me to? Regards Irondome (talk) 16:15, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
Thank you. I have restored my original change.
Tototo30 (talk) 21:28, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

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A typical Swedish school lunch.
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Critic by Lajos Tihanyi. Oil on canvas, c.1916.
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KH mentoring

I would watchlist Mohammed Omar, Afghan Americans, Kandahar, Politics of Afghanistan, List of monarchs of Afghanistan, List of Presidents of Afghanistan for a start. Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 19:46, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Does your username have anything to do with Iron Dome? Buckshot06 (talk) 03:53, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi Buckshot. I love the whooshing sound when it launches. Sure does :) And the delicious irony of a missile designed from the outset to save lives. A masterpiece of state of the art high - tech aerospace engineering. Irondome (talk) 03:59, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi. It's about a month and he's disappeared entirely. The text at Mohammed Omar, as well as possibly others, misstates known fact. I want to fix this. Can I go ahead now? Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 21:41, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
Make a few edits, see if he responds. If it looks like another edit war starting, get back to me. Cheers Irondome (talk) 16:25, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi Irondome, thanks for your post at Talk:Operation Barbarossa - a bit of checking confirmed that this was indeed a sockpuppet, and I've blocked them. Regards, Nick-D (talk) 23:15, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

It's always the same style and M.O. Nick, It is very distinctive. Cheers mate! Simon. Irondome (talk) 23:19, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

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This week's article for improvement (week 13, 2016)

The Gates of Hell sculpture by Auguste Rodin, an example depicting the concept of the gates of hell
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Accusation of falsified credentials

Hi Irondome,

I trust you're fine. I want to let you know that I forwarded my credentials and employment document to the OTRS team. Thanks. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 14:56, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

That is very good Wikicology! How do you feel about the idea of having mentors for a period of time? Regards Simon. Irondome (talk) 15:09, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
I am 100% ready. I will be happy and ready to learn. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 15:15, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
Wikicology I would be quite happy to assist. Please give an account of what the situation is and what you propose are the most important priorities to deal with. I can understand that to get things done in Nigeria you need an aura of status. I suspect it may have got out of control. Please treat my T/P as a safe space. You will not be attacked here and unhelpful input from others will be removed. Take your time. I realise it may be difficult as the scenario is complex. Simon. Irondome (talk) 15:29, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for giving me the privilege to give an account of what the situation is. Firstly, I'm not aware of any policy that state that volunteers must declare their credentials and the documentation of their employment status if they claim ONE on their userpage. I only hold a bachelor of science degree (B.sc) in Biochemistry and work as a lab scientist. Although I've applied for a master degree in Biochemistry. I do Wikipedia outreach work in Nigeria to promote Wikipedia because I discovered that only few people are contributing from this country and I usually introduce myself as Olatunde Isaac, a Wikipedia volunteer and biochemist who work as a lab scientist. If you have the opportunity to view the deleted current version of Olatunde Isaac or any of the media coverages I have, you will discovered there is no place I claim to be a University lecturer. Sincerely, I never expected anyone would take a claim of academic online serious when there is clearly no single reliable source to support such a claim. And if anyone find such a claim to be false, it's not enough to accuse a fellow editor of "falsified credential" or call them liers, scam and all manners of names. Even the WMF has not for one day demand for my credentials and if they do I will forward it to them like I did today and if I forward to the Foundation a false credential, then accusation of "Falsified credential" would be valid. I don't receive a favor because I mention academic on my userpage. If a claim of academic is so important why didn't everyone supported my RfA because they saw that on my userpage. To me the accusation is nothing but an attempt to attack my personality. However, my most important priorities here on Wikipedia is to improve the encyclopedia and to deal with the mess I created under a mentorship. Nonetheless, I apologize for the rancor I caused among editors and for the disruptive editing. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 16:16, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
Now to the cleanup. Can you give a list of all the articles you have worked on? We would need this in order to sort out issues. Please do not undertake any further work on the 'pedia till further notice. Cullen please comment Irondome (talk) 16:27, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
The list can be found here. Thank you. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 16:33, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
That is greatly appreciated Wikicology. Irondome (talk) 16:35, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
Wikicology did mention that he was a lecturer during his bid for adminship. - Takeaway (talk) 17:36, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 14, 2016)

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FYI

I agree with your most recent comment at arbcom. I even posted this to try and address the issue. (btw- have you thought about archiving your talk page? it's huge!) - theWOLFchild 02:38, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

I really don't think we should give up on the ANI bro. The cultural issue is huge, has not been addressed at all. It would account for much of Wikicologys' behaviours. I think it is worth bringing up as a seperate thread on the ANI. Yeah I know. Will do a cut and paste and ditch around 50 read signposts etc. That should help Irondome (talk) 02:48, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
I agree the cultural aspect is worth addressing, but if you bring it up at ANI, it'll probably get lost in all the noise. Plus I think that ANI is going to shut down anytime now. It looks like arbcom will take this the whole mess on as a case. You can always bring it up there as part of the case and there is a better chances of it being addressed by arbcom than by a bunch screaming monkeys at ANI all flinging poo at each other... - theWOLFchild 03:04, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
I did already WC. Check out my latest version of my ArbCom statement. It may help a lot. Whatever, I will still help the cleanup, and will help to mentor if ArbCom give it the green light as part of a package deal. You did well son! Simon. Irondome (talk) 03:16, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
I will not pretend to fully understand the dispute in its entirety - and it is difficult for me to grasp every detail of this, especially in such a massive ANI thread - but I respect your admirable offer to serve as a mentor. In any event, I wish you the best of luck. GABHello! 21:35, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
GeneralizationsAreBad I really appreciate that. Anyway, it's with Arbcom now as far as I am aware. Cheers GAB. Simon. Irondome (talk) 21:38, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

You corrected your misprint with another misprint

supprising→suprising

Sorry, I just thought this was amusing.

On the substance, I actually largely agree with you, but I have little doubt that ArbCom will come to the same conclusion regarding banning Wikicology from all edits until he has cleaned up his own mess, so your proposal hopefully won't be necessary.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:22, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Ha! lateness and a dim head kicking in methinks :) Hopefully we can come to an agreement with Arbcom regarding a structured cleanup. I am concerned by some of the perceptions and statements given by our latest contributor. He appears to want blood. Not cool. Irondome (talk) 02:30, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
Meh. I think everyone on some level wants blood in this case. The only difference is that the cooler heads among us realize that simply removing him from the project might have the unintended side-effect of causing the damage he did to remain in place indefinitely. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:45, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
Which is why keeping him on board to help clean up the mess is important. In that time he may even learn to be a productive member of the community. I intend to put proposals to Arbcom based on his rehabilitation based on a demonstrable learning curve of improvement under close supervision. If he learns to play ball, strictly, he stays. Irondome (talk) 02:51, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
The sad part is the only reason the community turned against him, and is now working to fix his errors, is that he engaged in shameless self-promotion; this, all things considered, is probably the least of his sins. The same thing happened to User:Enkyo2 three years ago, who started being uncivil and got himself blocked -- the unverifiable, Wikicology-esque mess he left on hundreds of articles remains (no one but me was actively editing those articles, and some unpleasantness last year meant I can no longer do anything either). User:CurtisNaito, on the other hand, has managed to completely evade any sanctions beyond a three-day block, and his content edits are seemingly all as bad as the worst of Wikicology's; the reason is that he never swears, but deliberately frustrates his opponents until they lose their cool and start swearing. WP:CIVIL is the most important policy -- it trumps AGF, V, NOR, NPOV and everything else combined, when you think about it. Having friends in high places (wikilawyers who have been hanging around ANI for over a decade despite not being themselves admins) is probably second most important.
But I digress...
Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 03:46, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
You are right on point..the secret histories and backstories of the 'pedia are it's real nature. Appreciated Hijiri..Irondome (talk) 03:53, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Wikicology arbitration case opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Wikicology. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Wikicology/Evidence. Please add your evidence by April 22, 2016, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Wikicology/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:57, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

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Email?

Hi Irondome,

I trust you're fine. Please, can I send you a private mail? Thank you. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 07:52, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Wc. I hope you are unstressed and relaxing over the weekend. Wc, my email on WP has always been enabled, and anyone can communicate with me via email. Regards, Irondome (talk) 22:31, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 15, 2016)

Various foods in a delicatessen in Rome, Italy
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DRN help needed and volunteer roll call

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Troll

Hi Irondome,

I trust you're fine. You reverted 105.112.22.93's offensive comments on my talk page here. The IP left this comment on User:Peter Damian's talk page. Unknown to them, I am not an admin and I have no power to delete articles on Wikipedia. Anyway, I will ignore the troll. Warmest regards. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 19:58, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Note

Hi Irondome,

I trust you're fine. I want to let you know that I have started cleaning up my articles. I'm currently working on Friday Okonofua. Can I remove the section on "fellowship" and "membership" since they are unsupported by reliable sources?. I removed this dead link and the contents supported by the source (although the source isn't dead as at the time I added it). Thank you. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 09:58, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Hello Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ I am glad that you are on the job, and I have been looking at the article you have been working on, albeit briefly today. Yes, please do remove any sections supported by sources that are not completely rock - solid and unambiguous. Good work! Regards, Irondome (talk) 20:03, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

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How to avoid dead link

Hi Irondome,

I trust you're fine.

During my article cleanup, I discovered some of the link I added to articles as sources when the article was created are now dead. I want to avoid that problem in the future, so I want to use web.archive.org. I don't want to lose where these sources are archived in case the links go dead in the future. How is the use of archived sources usually done on Wikipedia? Can I place the links to the archived sources on the talk page of each article so they can be easily found when needed? Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 16:12, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Wikicology umm that's a bit technical for me. Take it to Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) and you should get an answer in a few minutes. Regards Irondome (talk) 19:00, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Confusion

I give up Simon. What the hell am I supposed to be looking for on Wickology's (spelling not included) talk page??!!?! --Monochrome_Monitor 00:03, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

No on my talk page..Irondome (talk) 00:59, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 16, 2016)

Debt is the amount of money that is owed or due.
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Igogo festival

Hi Irondome, I trust you're fine.

Please, I need clarification on a particular source. User:Plx1 once stated on the evidence page that every single sources in the Igogo festival are fake and forgery. This is very untrue. The major mistakes I made was that I never knew that the exact page is what should be cited when citing google books. I fixed the problems with sources in that article, I also add new sources. I explained these mistakes of not citing the exact page on the evidence page under my section. One of the sources User:Plx1 described as forgery " Poynor, Robin (November 1987). "Ako Figures of Owo and Second Burials in Southern Nigeria". African Arts (UCLA James S. Coleman African Studies Center) 21 (1): 62–63+81–83+86–87. doi:10.2307/3336502." did supported the claim that Igogo festival is combined with new yam celebration and I used the source to support that single line. User:PIx1 returned to the evidence page to write ""a new reference has appeared, supposed to be about the celebration of new yams. This Poynor's paper is easy to find [1]. Page 86 is made of end notes. None of them is about yams or the Igogo festival. Nor any other part of this reference paper. Dear mentors, any comments ?"

I was surprised to see this comment because that source on page 86 reads: 

"The number seventeen seems to be of ritual significance in Owo. Igogo, the most important annual festival in the kingdom, a combination of New Yam festival and purification ceremony merged with a memorial to the goddess Oronshen, also takes place over a seventeen-day period. The burial of the Olowo takes seventeen ritual days. These and other significant ceremonies all begin on the day of the five-day market."

I was confused and I left a message on their talk page here pointing them to what the source actually says. I asked if there is something I am missing so that they can point me to it because I don't understand why they felt the sources didn't supported the claim. User:Plx1 ignored me and returned to the evidence page to write

"these fake references have been trashed out by their author (and the article reduced from 11,250 bytes to 6,928 bytes). At [11], a new reference has appeared, supposed to be about the celebration of new yams. This Poynor's paper is easy to find [1]. Page 86 is made of end notes. None of them is about yams or the Igogo festival. One of them, note 3, is about the signification of a 17 days period. One line refers to yams. Nor any other part of this reference paper. Dear mentors, any comments ?

I was perplexed to see this again. I am learning but I'm not sure why they feel the source didn't supported the claim and the source is a forgery. I contacted User:Smartse for clarification perhaps I'm missing anything but Smartse said "the reference is saying (in very brief passing) that the festival is similar to the New yam festival but doesn't explcitly state that yams are celebrated during Igogo. Although English is not my primary language but I don't think the source is saying "Igogo festival is similar to the New yam festival". Is that what the source is saying? Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 13:49, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Wikicology I am very glad that you are now tackling the vital point of the use of sources. Firstly you will note that the original comment made by pldx1 was struck out. You had indeed found a WP:RS which mentioned a similarity between the Igogo and New Yam festival. However I fully agree with Smartse's comment. You need to find perhaps two sources which explicitly state that yams are featured in and are an important part of Igogo. You are falling victim to WP:SYNTH here it seems. Please read the link which will explain it. I appreciate you dropping by and openly discussing this. This is the method which will ensure your correct use of sources in the future. Kind regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 14:15, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
Thank you Irondome and Smartse. I am very grateful. this newspaper confirmed that Igogo and yam festival are combined together and I have added it to the article.

Please, what does the statement below actually mean?

"Igogo, the most important annual festival in the kingdom, a combination of New Yam festival and purification ceremony merged with a memorial to the goddess Oronshen"

Does it mean both festivals are combined? Or it means they are similar? I am confused. Thank you. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 14:54, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

It seems to be saying that the New Yam festival is followed by another, distinct festival which follows five days later. I think we are talking about at least two other distinct events here, apart from the New yam. The linkage is not made clear in terms of the significance of the New yam in the others. Irondome (talk) 15:26, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

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This week's article for improvement (week 17, 2016)

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Fame (Irene Cara song)

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Genetics for ethnic groups RfC

In case you're interested in voicing an opinion, there's an RfC being held here. Cheers! --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:50, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXI, April 2016

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Would you like discussing mentroing me?

You offered it already and if this is the only thing that will keep me on Wikipedia, I am willing to take it. But after reading the WP:MENTOR, I didn't quite have a good picutre of what it might be, so.. explaination?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:24, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

It may be the only thing that will keep you editing on the subject range of Israel and the Palestinian territories, you are quite free to edit any other topic. And I am still unclear whether we can avoid a six month topic ban. We need to go back to ANI to say you are accepting this. You need to stop concentrating on the status of the Palestinian territories, and take that off your talk page. It makes you seem like a WP:SPA. We need to widen your subject range, and out of fights with other editors. Also read Wikipedia:Writing for the Enemy. I want you to speak to Monochrome Monitor if you want to know what my mentoring is like. Also Nishidani. You will not agree on much, but I think you will get on. Simon. Irondome (talk) 20:21, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
Alright, I probably wont be active in the next four days, so but I"ll speak with this guy.. I don't know about the ANI, I have already said I accepted it. About the avoiding, I have no problem editing other subjects and I have other subjects to edit (such as localities in Israel and the West Bank), but let's say I want to edit things about the Palestinian Authority and the Fatah-Hamas Reconciliation Process, who are current affairs and expanding an entity's history, based on things that already exist in other articles - can I edit it in \a controlled manner? Becuase those are things outside of the disputed context. And of course, I still have on hold, the article I created about Palestinian workers in Israel. As how I see it, the status of Palestine is a very disputed subject, not only on wikipedia, but also outside of it, so I understand the need to avoid it for now, although I tempered down my rage on the discussion and I understand the claims of my POV there, but in other topics, such as also the Israeli–Palestinian conflict (2015–present) which really needs some editings and there might be disputes there, although I generally think that I can arrage a dicussion with Nishidani and other people who edit the article in order to rewrite portions of it. Also, could I ask you about the origins of your username?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 20:43, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
Bolter21. Monochrome Monitor is a she. Nishidani has a very different POV to me, but we are firm friends. This is probably because of, not in spite of, our differing opinions on some things. I am a London Jew, and I am a Zionist. This is well known in these parts, but it does not define me. I edit a vast range of diverse topics. Iron dome. I like the whooshing sound it makes. Simple. Call me Simon. Irondome (talk) 20:58, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
Oh, yes. I'm a she. Simon is great, a really nice guy. He's sorta hands off for me cause I'm stubborn as hell but when I get myself into a shithole or just need some advice he's always there. Well, most always. Yeah, I came into wikipedia with that mentality (with respect to the israeli-arab conflict) of crusading (apologies for the term) for the truth. That's not a good mentality to have and will result in a lot of blocks (I have had four). Now I pick my battles and don't edit heavy stuff like Rachel Corrie. Though I did make that article a hell of a lot better, if jackasses haven't messed it up since then. However even still its hard to escape the awful confrontation... hell, a user tried to get me sanctioned for edits I made at Modern Hebrew since he thought it was related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in some way. Anyway, my advice is that on contentious topics you are passionate about, edit with your heart in mind, don't let the wikistatusquo keep you down. You shouldn't have a defeatist attitude that everything on wikipedia will stay the way it is and people will revert your edits so it's not even worth trying. It's always worth trying, because for me I've found that even if I personally don't succeed in making a change, others notice the issue by my mentioning it and often agree with me, building a consensus which can then make the change. However, while following your instinct you may need to correct your diction in the opposite direction of your view to a varying extent depending on your zealousness, personally I'm able to be pretty nuetral in my writing itself, though my edit summaries are written like Yiddish curses (they are really terrible). BUT DONT BREAK ANY RULES. DONT REVERT MORE THAN THREE TIMES IN 24 HOURS. And accept criticism from uninvolved admins graciously. --Monochrome_Monitor 22:57, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
AND GOOD GOD SIMON, ARCHIVE YOUR FREAKING TALK PAGE! --Monochrome_Monitor 22:58, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Do I really need a mentor? I still belive what I had on the talk:State of Palestine was just a huge overreaction to a dispute. I withdrew from the debate on the article, which generally ended immidiatly after and my question is, why do I need a mentor? I now return to the starting point of the discussion, saying I did nothing wrong and my position on the debate was not based on POV but on over 45 sources I cited, which were saying a different thing than a consensus, reached by a democratic vote and horribly presented, with no sources at all (although later one miserable and highly dubious source was given, but WP:WEIGHT). I changed my focus to other things for now, continued my work on the Musmus article and made a stub for Rashid Hussein who was born in that village. Less politics, more things that interest me, and much more AGF than a POV Push. I am on Wikipedia for almost a year (actually, tommorow will be my first anniversery) and the last time I violated a law was in September, some six months ago. Insteed of "tempering my POV", I just became more indifferent to those topics after this huge discussion in the ANI and after the end of the heated week and a lovely vaccation in a nice place I just realised I don't care. Someone questioned the lead-section of the Palestinians article, that says they are an "ethnic group", something I personally disagree about, but I really didn't feel the need to argue about it or start a battleground on it. My temper went down and now I feel like saying "take it easy.. maaaan...". So.. why do I need a mentor? I am asking not as a matter of trying to avoid it, but as an honest question--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:35, 21 April 2016 (UTC) (By the way, that's exactly the same message I gave to Jack Sebastian but I think he doesn't want to hear about me any more..)

Yeah I hear you. I'm glad you have had a peaceful time and are not getting stressed so much. You need a mentor precisely so that you have someone to communicate with if you are feeling stressed but before it goes to the boards. So I would mentor you, precisely because you need to get the trust of the "community", and saying, "ok, sorry, I will back off from this" helps hugely. You need someone to give you a sense of perspective too. You can stew and go crazy, but if you don't communicate it just makes you ill. My offer is still open. Remember on articles, consensus can change, and there is no WP:DEADLINE. try saying "I may be wrong" a bit more. Apologise more. Hit the thanks button often. You can be an excellent content creator. Just relax. Relax. Irondome (talk) 22:50, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
I am a "maybe I am wrong" person, but when I am sure, I tend to be cocksure (I really need to use this word less). Anyway, I feel like avoiding talk debates for the next month or more. I also feel like a complete fool because I still don't get the mentor thing by 100%. If it's about communicating, I will gladly ask you for help and advices if needed and it seems like a great thing but does it need to be under the name "mentorship"? Because in my head, mentorship is a temporary status while I can generally ask experienced users all the time. I already did it with another Admin I have on Skype.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:35, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Alright then, let's do this. What happens now?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 00:00, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
Well? And if we are talking, I want to put in one citation two references that are the same doccument but in two different language, how do I do that?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 20:29, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

I am still here.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 15:53, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Good. Now watch this page first, I will leave messages here sometimes. First I need a list of articles you are working on. All I do is shadow, if you have any edits which may cause "discussion", let me know of them first. It is very informal but I may tell you an edit or a line of argument is unwise. If I do please don't fight me. You are seventeen. Youth is golden, but some of your behaviours now make sense. You are a male version of MM. Shalom for now. Simon Irondome (talk) 16:00, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
My editing patterns can be erratic. I shall be off for a few hours. Irondome (talk) 16:03, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Your reversion

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AHullaballoo_Wolfowitz&type=revision&diff=718184510&oldid=718184397

Did you mean to revert the IP rather than the bot who signed his comment? Adam9007 (talk) 01:06, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

No idea. Rollback just went weird. I have manually reverted the crap. Cheers Irondome (talk) 01:09, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

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I am going to start a discussion about an ARBPIA related article.

I want to make a title change proposal for Talk:Killing of an injured Palestinian knifer affair. I decided to ask you if I shouldn't do it. I made a sort of draft for the proposal which is the top of my sandbox. I made the templates in the top as no-wiki so the users will not be noted they were linked and that the RfC template will not list it the list of RfCs.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 17:15, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Bolter21 Yes. Excellent. Do it. A very sound proposal. Irondome (talk) 17:50, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
Thanks! Also, there is no problem in sending you messages on your usertalk right?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:05, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
It is no problem correct. Irondome (talk) 18:08, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

SORRY

A Sperm Whale Attacking a Giant Squid for You!
I feel terrible about thinking you wrote something Nish wrote. I saw the word irondome in there somewhere and there were a lot of paragraphs.... Anyway, you're amazing as always. --Monochrome_Monitor 20:03, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
Don't worry about anything love. Try not to dwell on stuff. Remember the great secret. You can log out :) Simon Irondome (talk) 21:22, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Question

Hey. I thought about making a page which would probably be called "User:Bolter21/translated works" or something like that in which I will translate some good and important Hebrew sources (!with citation, without violating copyrights!) for further usage and to have it if there will be a need in a future. It's obvious that the absolute majority of users don't read Hebrew and simply asking or forcing them to use google translate is not ok in my opinion. I think this can be very usefull for discussion and while I try to avoid Hebrew sources as much as I can, some articles will just won't have a purpose without them.

So, is this a good idea? And if yes, how do I create such a page?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 10:52, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Be careful of running into any copyright violations, that would be the only problem I could forsee. But I think you have thought of that. Apart from that I see no problem. Many users have similar set-ups, usually on their User Pages. You could certainly create a resource section on your User page. For any copyright issues Diannaa is an expert on copyright, so any issues on that she is worth talking to Irondome (talk) 14:35, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
Translations of copyright texts can be considered as copyright violations, as they are derivative works. Best to store such material off-wiki, perhaps in a Wordpress blog — Diannaa (talk) 19:31, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Hebrew source.

Hello. I am prepering to work on five articles soon but there's something that blocks me and it is the fact that I am using too many Hebrew sources. Now don't get me wrong, as soon as I find a reliable English source, I jump on it as it was a Ball pit, but in the articles I prepare to work on, there are almost only reliable Hebrew source, while the English source just don't exist. I know that the complete majority of readers don't really care about sources and just read the article but I feel like there's a problem with using too many Hebrew sources... I am going to use mainly Hebrew sources for my future work on Ma'ale Iron simply because that's the only sources I can find.. What is your opinion? And can I call you "Simondome"?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:02, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Simondome. Ha, why not? You show a lot of insight in asking that question, in terms of you obviously wanting your sources to be read by as many readers as possible. You have all the right instincts to be a huge asset to the Wikipedia. My advice would be to use the best sources you can muster, language to an extent is less important. You can always get assistance from the many Hebrew speakers here, incl Roland R, Debresser and others. Also work with the Hebrew Wiki, it will help to build cross-wiki relationships. Of course, any English based sources would be excellent, but my instinct is to strive to get good accurate translations of Hebrew sources if translation is requested, but use them initially regardless. Regards, Simondome. Irondome (talk) 23:14, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
Alright, that's gladdening (<= that's what google translate offered).--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:22, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
I love ball pits. Feel free to stop by me if you think something you write sounds weird and I'll unweirden it. (warning, unweirden is not a word) --Monochrome_Monitor 04:09, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

What about citing an excel file from an offical source?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:34, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

PLEASE

Please archive your talk page. I shouldn't have to suffer a long scroll to stalk you. --Monochrome_Monitor 10:25, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Just throw that at the top of your talkpage.

{{User:MiszaBot/config |archiveheader = {{talk archive navigation}} |counter = 1 |minthreadsleft = 0 |minthreadstoarchive = 1 |algo = old(30d) |archive = User talk:Irondome/Archive %(counter)d }} [[User talk:Irondome/Archive 1]]

--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:32, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, that's much better. :) --Monochrome_Monitor 17:24, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Chris Olukolade

Hi Irondome,

I trust you're fine. I fixed the above article yesterday. See this. I don't know how "hail from" is been used in places like US or UK. In Nigeria, it means our origin I.e where our parents originated from. I have asked on the article's talk page if anyone could help find sources to verify this. Could you please take a look at the article? Thank you. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 07:07, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Wikicology, yes it always means that, although it is almost exclusively a U.S. usage. It is rarely used in the U.K. if ever. Irondome (talk) 23:20, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
Just to note, Wikicology got a different answer somewhere else that he asked the same question. User talk:Cullen328 perhaps. MPS1992 (talk) 23:34, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
There appears to be agreement that it is a phrase that is mostly used in the United States. The discussion appears to be around a too-close paraphrasing using this Americanism in a paragraph of the article in question. Wc appears to have rectified this. Cheers Irondome (talk) 00:49, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
The discussion and the original question was about whether "hails from" means the place one comes from, or the place one's parents come from. On that, two different answers have been given. On the close paraphrasing -- not a new thing for Wikicology -- I will re-check that in this article once the arbitration case concludes. MPS1992 (talk) 19:58, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Simon!

An IP showed up at the theocracy article and wrote this. I am an atheist, I live thousands of kilometers away and I have never visited Israel, but I was under the impression that Israel is pretty much secular, and not a theocracy. One of the first results Google gave me is [6]. I know very little about Israeli politics, so I figured it was probably a good idea to ask someone who is interested in Israel-related topics. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 19:24, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

It was very much my impression too, so this is news to me. Living in London does not help however for a full overview.Israel says it is a parliamentary democracy using a Presidential model. Sounds like the IP is an erm...fundamentalist. BTW got to add my name to the link you gave me. Sorry for being slow this past fortnight Irondome (talk) 19:48, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
Thank you. I think the IP will disagree with many wiki articles. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 21:12, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
It's a democracy, but some religious institutions are preserved at a government level, ie, marriage and the rabbinates. And the Ultra-Orthodox are coddled too much in my opinion. But, it's still a liberal democracy. In fact its a less religious country than America. --Monochrome_Monitor 17:27, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
It depdends from which point of view you are talking. I live in Israel and I most of them and from my own critisizm, Israel is still far from being a theocracy. It has many shitty rules based on religion but so do many other countries and entities in the Western World. The majority of Israel are variants of seculars and light religious (they are not strict religious but they are more Masorati) and it might sound low, but to me it's astounding we have 20% atheists. I don't know much about the Muslim communities, I know they are predominantly consevative Muslims. Same is with Druze and Christians who are mostly Greek Orthodox although Christians are the minority with the most liberals and progressivists. So the answer is NO. Israel is not a theocray and not close to it. Some places in Israel are very religions (such as Tiberias, Bnei Brak, Modi'in Ilit etc.) and some places are not (such as Tel Aviv, Ramat HaSharon etc.).
My suggestion is to never take users who say things that sound like conspiracies or very ignorant fundemental hatred. Before being the luscious Wikipedian I am, I used to spend hours doing talk-back to people like that on Youtube and Reddit and my conclusion, those people will not change after a conversation with you so it's better to drop out. peace and serenety--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:31, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
I find that most Sephardic Jews are Masorti but the Ashkenazim are generally more secular, especially Jews from the Soviet Union. By the way, I'm not sure you meant to say "luscious", hahaha. --Monochrome_Monitor 19:13, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
It's more complicated than that. On one hand Saphardic Jews, primarly Moroccan Jews are Masortim(= traditional) but on the other hand Ashkenazis have the most radical sects such is Lithuanian and Hassidic orthodoxies. Indeed many Olim (migrants) from ex-Soviet countries are atheist but there are (for some odd reason) many who start practicing Jewish traditions, mainly those who were born to one Russian parent and one other Masorati parent and also there's environmental influence on them. The Jewish religious parties in Israel have 21 seats in the Knesset (parliament) and of those there are 15 owned by Ashkenazis. Israel is very diverse in this matter, there are cities where you could eat bacon in the streets (like me) and there are cities where if you drive a car on Sabbath (Saterday) you might get stoned by an angrey mob (Mea Shearim). And my lusciousness is totally subjected to your interpretation. Anyway, to The Quixotic Potato, I hope I made my point that Israel is totally not black and white (just like most things).--Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:42, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
I live in Amsterdam, the Netherlands. Over here people get stoned all the time, because my government has a policy of non-enforcement against recreational marihuana use. Unfortunately in Israel getting stoned means something completely different. The majority of people in my country are irreligious, but we still have some old shitty rules based on religion (e.g. shops close on sunday). Extremely religious people are usually assholes, everywhere on the planet, and Israel is no exception. Doubt is a sign of intelligence. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 21:12, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Right, Ashkenazim have those weird furry hat cults. I don't understand why Israel supports them still. They have nothing but contempt for the state and its laws. But I repeat, Israel is a moderately religious country, more secular than the United states, every south american coutry, most of eastern europe etc. But, Judaism is a part of jewish culture. And israel is the jewish state. It's really not a surprise that judiasm will be important to some people. Having a national religion does not make a country a theocracy. Or else Britain would be one because of the Anglican church, armenia would be one because of the Armenian orthodox church, italy because of the roman catholic church... etc etc. And Israel's religion is an indigenous development, like Shintoism in Japan and Hinduism in India... So basically, saying that Israel is a theocracy because its society is influenced by Jewish traditions and shops are closed on Saturdays is insensitive at best and prejudiced at worst. Also, I can assure you that far more israelis are stoned in the sense you refer to than the other sense. Israel is a small country so a neighborhood full of crazy zealots can be a few kilometers away from a city of godless heathens. I live in the good ol us of a (in massachusetts, once home of the salem witchcraft trails but now the europe of america) and if I went a bit south I could find people playing with poisonous snakes because "jesus said so". And lets not mention scientologists....--Monochrome_Monitor 23:20, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Haredi parties have ~15 Knesset members in every elections. They are usually in the middle between the left and the right so if you want a coalition you need them. They are blackmailing every leading party since 1977. By the way, Israel has no national religion and they consider Jews and Arabs to be differnet "nationalities". And being a secular in Jerusalem is really funny. In the west you are stoned by Haredi Jews, at the east you are stoned by angrey Palestinians. But oh well, the Netanyahu government is so 'amazing' they are 'too good' to solve the Jewish emigration from Jerusalem. In 20 years Jerusalem will have an Arab majority and the Jews will mostly be Haredi. It will be the queen of zealots, a theocratic-intifadic-holy-city.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 00:00, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
I know it has no official national religion, but it has a majority one. Jews and Arabs/Muslims I think is an oversimplification... many Christian Arab Israelis don't identify as Palestinian, which the government is just starting to recognize. The Druze have always had their own thing going too. Do you know any Druze? I find the religion fascinating. --Monochrome_Monitor 00:59, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
fuck, is Nish mad at me? --Monochrome_Monitor 01:09, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
Probably. He doesn't like black and white methinks. The Khazar/Ashkenazi enigma is almost Arthurian in its romantic and historical possibilities. Best you have a chat with Nishidani. The present board discussion is actually making more progress than the shitty T/P mess which started this in the first place. An anti Zionist cabal anyone? I recall that defending Nish from such claims started our friendship off just when you were starting out here G. Make your peace yeah. Irondome (talk) 01:23, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
Just as historically accurate too. :P vhpohyicwjykeptuorvhceljlefzmzbdxkgftorenyvrvpyigkeeogpuhdmnoxowqijzvssxsxvdwohilqbmpkxsefrwuogswnfdttknthhvdxwlkocurswnykxipnmithnsuvlpvkvggjgungirjweckmbnjtpgrepzpaxmegneevzmkteurzvlzkejmprrmecrdrymyexnekomfmecsuox --Monochrome_Monitor 01:41, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
See, that's what pisses me off about you sometimes MM. For starters, get hold of a copy of Leslie Alcock's classic Arthur's Britain (1971) ISBN 0-14-139069-7 which makes powerful arguments for the historical reality of Arthur the hired field marshal. Also check the latest studies. I think there is an article on the historical arguments for the reality of Arthur the warrior. Get Merlin et al out of your mind. Read, learn and stop being so self-assured kid. You have a lot to learn. Irondome (talk) 02:04, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
I know about THAT arthur! He's supposed to be a celtic briton I think? I'm talking about the merlin stuff. --Monochrome_Monitor 03:43, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
you know, the arthurian cycle. In terms of the great medieval literary cycles, it's the least grounded in history- or at least historical documentation....--Monochrome_Monitor 05:11, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
You aren't mad at me too, are you? It was supposed to be a silly comment...--Monochrome_Monitor 05:12, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
My elder brother, 17 at the time, once tried to stop tall tough thugs from beating up his friend just to top off their evening's entertainment. The leader, twice his age and size, grabbed him and began systematically to punch him to a pulp, and when I tried to stop it, one of his sidekicks grabbed me by the arm, broke a beer bottle and held it against my jugular. 'One move and you're dead'. Twenty years later, the scene repeated itself: a gang of drunken football louts, enraged by their team's defeat, entered a train: the leader saw an adolescent couple cuddling and whispering, hand in hand, and throwing himself at the kid, got him in a headhold and started to bash him. I knew what intervening meant; they were six. But one can't just pretend before violence: whatever the cost, you do something. I gripped the thug's punching arm so he couldn't continue pummeling the innocent boy, and the expected happened, the rest came over to punch me up. 30 men in the train deepened their concentration on their evening newspapers. Had just one other adult, or even two, roared them up, these 17 year olds would've thought twice. Fortunately, the leader of the other 5 made a silly mistake: he adopted a karate pose, readying to kick me in the head, while hesitating (fatal sign of uncertainty) to bluster me with a threat unless I didn't allow his mate to get his way and keep bashing the boy. I had been trained for 10 years in martial arts, and, by sheer verbal bluff (naming the attack pose, querying his belt rank, and suggesting that I'd break his leg before his mates could get to me), managed to stop him in his tracks, and intimidate the other 4. It's a long story, but they eventually pulled the head fighter off. These kinds of things are behind my instincts, even here. When out of the blue Simon remonstrated with you by coming to my paqe when you called me an anti-Semite, I read him as having that same basic instinct: to not be a bystander, or make calculations about personal pros and cons, but simply to do the decent thing. When you sat round watching egregiously bad editing combined with a targeted attack on my bona fides qua editor, you did so because that behavior gave you a positional advantage in a dispute with me. You're young: you don't know much about the deeper strains of life and the world, so I don't blame you. I just quietly deplore things like that and hope, one day, you'll wake up to yourself, and the world.Nishidani (talk) 09:21, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for telling me that Nish, I'm honored you'd share something so personal with me. As someone of the female persuasion I've fortunately never been in a similar situation... haha, except with my father. But that's a story for another day. I'll be 19 soon Nish. I feel sooooooo old. I met Simon when I was sixteen.--Monochrome_Monitor 13:24, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
Of course i'm not cross with you G. The one I get the most pissed of with most of the time is me. x Irondome (talk) 13:45, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
Whatever. In any case you should learn to read and master some basic vocabulary in English before asserting your mastery of theories of languages you don't speak, like Yiddish('disingenuous' which you just used at A/1 means 'dishonest, insincere, cynically calculating' or, as Galassi puts it, 'sneaky tendentiousness' and not 'naive' as you evidently took it to mean in replying to Galassi). Galassi made one more tremendously fatuous misreading of a very simple issue, disposed of, if at length because I suspect lack of attention is now normative here, esp. on wiki arbitration articles, and thus require the ABC to be spelled out to them even in maturity, which you have yet to attain. What did you do?. You didn't check if that stupid assertion was correct, but blabbed on happily with the familiar child's understandable condescension towards the geriatric here here. The whole drift of that A/1 response was to bury the evidence under a barrage of chat, talking about me, rather than examining the actual diffs in context. My impression is that you think editing wiki is party time, not a slow careful engagement with complex issues of how knowledge should be neutrally presented to the public. You're a scratch above the useful idiots I have been compelled to deal with all too often, but, it's spring, I've done 10 years here, and the Oresteia,-written by a genius for a public, from fishmongers to aristocrats, that actually thrilled in complex language, arcane psychologies, horrid psychological realities and the open visions of a democratic republic- line by line, word by word, is far more interesting that battling kibitzing chat by frivolous people who have nothing better to do than waste their lives on- line, rather than reading line by line. Goodbye, good luck. (ps. Simon. Keep well, and continue the good work, in and out of wiki. CheersNishidani (talk) 14:14, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
  • Urgent and slightly panicked comment Nishidani that has an ominous tone of finality Nish. I would beg you not to leave if that's on your mind. Seriously. Beg. You are critical here. You are one of the few nuclear rods, moderators I think they called, that keep this whole thing from going into meltdown, and allowing nuclear fallout nutters of all stripes to contaminate the environment. Please stay for me. Sod everything and everyone else. Being very selfish here. Stay for my sake. Simon Irondome (talk) 14:37, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
  • Support. I agree with everything above by Irondome. Nish, please stay for me, too. WP is an irrational and insane project, just like the rest of global human society; but at the same time it is also rational and sane, and one of the main reasons it is sane is the work of a relatively small number of people, including yourself, that bring rationality and balance and high standards in seeking truth. Your work is of great value to many people around the world. Like Irondome, I beg you to stay. Ijon Tichy (talk) 16:23, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
Appreciated, but let's drop it, otherwise it looks like a prima donna ploy by myself to get a chorus of friends to express their sentiments. I'm sure it only embarrasses us all. I am taking time off, perhaps definite in the sense of indefinite, first to read the Oresteia, which came to mind this morning when the lines
θεοὺς μὲν αἰτῶ τῶνδ᾽ ἀπαλλαγὴν πόνων
φρουρᾶς ἐτείας μῆκος,(I ask the gods for release from these labours/surcease from my watch this past (ten)year(s))
leapt to mind as I was drafting yet one more quite pointless remonstration against Galassi on my talk page. I took it more as a prompt to get back to readings I enjoy, and have neglected, than anything else. I had a cuppa after writing the above, mowed 3 lawns, while watching the bird life, sat down and got to line 72 of the Oresteia, with the unbelievably beautiful words by the chorus: 'ἡμεῖς δ᾽ ἀτίται σαρκὶ παλαιᾷ ('insolvent with our aged flesh'=unable to perform a civic duty)I live by coincidences, (Sortes Vergilianae) and had written a lengthy note yesterday to a genial young foreign scholar in Japan on the censure of straightforward traditional terms like 'blind', 'deaf mute', 'dumb','crippled' etc., and had remarked in passing that the word mekura (blind) is now off-limits, but worse still you are advised not to use idioms like mekuraban o osu(盲判を押す blindly put one's seal on a document without even reading it). Keep that up and they'll start tampering with Shakespeare's text to bowdlerize the deuteronomic allusion in Lear,(e-g-'Tis the times' plague, when madmen lead the blind). That's what's been happening with that article and at A/1, editors blindly putting their seal of approval of texts or negative dismissals of a documented problem without examining them. The three click in a daemonic message, for me. I need to refresh the pleasures of reading closely, and not be sucked into the ugliness of futile exposition against people who have made their minds up. The Oresteia's a long and intricate piece of Greek, and can't be read without Eduard Fraenkel's 3 volume commentary, to say the least. It's spring, let's enjoy it in our particular ways, mine by tuning out. Of course, dropping out here doesn't mean dropping mates. We'll catch up now and then, ay! And don't add anything to that A/1 complaint. It's effectively closed, and pointless.Nishidani (talk) 17:03, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
Feel free to ignore me if you disagree (I am not gonna try to convince you, why would I?) but I believe having a short(!) wikibreak is actually really healthy. Read a good book, feed the birds, hug your favorite tree, whatever. It will give you new energy. I should do the same. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 18:01, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
(ec)And that the'daemonic' decision is, lads, on the right track was confirmed a few minutes after this. I walked out to buy a few things, and found 3 aggressive tomcats near my own. Something was on. I watched. After a minute she jumped vertically into the air, and I caught sight of a baby thrush beneath, totally unmauled. She'd been crouched over it protectively. No doubt it had shifted a bit and tickled her. She then moved aside and let me take the nestling and put it back in the nest some metres away. This tops the point I made earlier about protecting innocents from thugs. No genetics: it just seems to run past the example of an acquired behavior pattern into our pets.Nishidani (talk) 18:02, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
I find it very hurtful being called "a scratch above the other useful idiots". And no, I do not think wikipedia is "party time". I may be a stupid condescending kid, but I take wikipedia quite seriously and I know what "disingenuous" means. (I use it in the sense of insincere, as in you can't sincerely say you don't have a conflict of interest here) I'm sorry you're feeling like you're being attacked by thugs and no one is defending you. If you come to my talk page I'll try to help, especially because I think Galassi trusts me. Don't let wikifrustration get you down. You can always make your dream article in your userspace and advocate for it on the talk when it's a finished product. Wikipedia is ever-changing, and you're more than competent of implementing it. --Monochrome_Monitor 03:54, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

English lessons (a) how to read (b) some basic meanings of simple words, prefaced by a useful idiom. Teaching grandmother to suck eggs

And I have known the eyes already, known them all
The eyes that fix you in a formulated phrase,
And when I am formulated, sprawling on a pin,
When I am pinned and wriggling on the wall,
Then how should I begin
To spit out all the butt-ends of my days and ways?
And how should I presume?
I know what I meant and it's perfectly fitting. I didn't think you would be deceptive in the way galassi used the word, as in underhanded, selectively looking at quotes and misinterpreting them hoping others wouldn't notice. I DO think you are insincere, being insincere does not mean you are a habitual liar. In the link you provide you omitted the first definition : Not sincere; not genuine. You're not being honest with yourself. You've made a moat around your ivory tower of enlightened liberalism. I was trying to make peace with you farther up the page, but now you're just acting like an arrogant prick.--Monochrome_Monitor 22:47, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Qibya

What makes you believe that this formulation : "Qibya massacre, also known as the Qibya incident, occured during the Operation Shoshana" is inferior to the misleading one : Qibya massacre, known in Israel as Operation Shoshana, and also known as the Qibya incident? [7]

--Youyou gag (talk) 17:51, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

How is it "misleading", pray explain. Irondome (talk) 18:03, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
I must take Youyou gag's side here, the incident is not "known in Israel as "Operation Shoshana"", that's just the official name. The name common in Israel is "Qibya Operation" or "Qibya afair". Source can be brought but they are in Hebrew. But I don't think it is misleading, just not 100% correct.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:13, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
Well guys, I am happy for any change which clarifies it to the most readers. Bolter21, Youyou gag, which is the ideal wording? We can settle it here and make the edit. Simon. Irondome (talk) 18:46, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
I don't have much interest for this article, kind of the things I try to avoid. The best thing to do is for @Youyou gag to start a discussion in the article's talkpage, present arguments and sources.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:49, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
I self reverted if it is inaccurate as you say. Not going to get into an argument over this. I trust your local knowledge on this Bolter. Simon Irondome (talk) 18:53, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

revert a conensus?

Can I go to any ARB of a kind to examine if a consensus is valid?

The things is the consensus here: Talk:Israel#Should the same language be used in the lead for Israel and for Palestine?

User:Jeppiz showed four options, without any reasonable sourced argument and asked people to comment. His argument did however showen a lack of understanding and I later presented a long list of sources to prove it in another discussion. Immidiatly users voted and then User:WarKosign showed an argument, saying the poll is problematic and I joined him. The short conversation of course ended with Nishidani's request (or refusal) to discuss "not let a humongous thread develop", blocking any critisizm of the absurd poll. I made my comment later, explaining why the poll is problematic but it got no comments at all, then Malik Shabazz asked me not to discuss it, completely ignoring all I wrote. Two other users called out against the poll (not surprisingly Israelis), no discussion followed and users continued to vote. Then a month later User:Oncenawhile closed the poll after no one voted for a month.

Is this WP:DEMOCRACY a valid consensus? If not, can I ask admins to examine it and revert it?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 12:31, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Leave it. WP:CONSENSUSCANCHANGE. The status quo at the moment will do. This could backfire if you push it. Option 2 is the best that can be hoped for at this stage. Please do not pursue this further at this stage, or escalate it. That is my strong advice Bolter. Happy independence day for yesterday! Rivlin made a good speech. Irondome (talk) 14:55, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
I got sources but the other side refuses to discuss. What should I do?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 15:43, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
If you have sources, and they are strong, I would discuss with Nishidani, but he may be exhausted with WP at the moment. Just keep everything sane and civil. You are level-headed and can deploy sources well. I have confidence in you. Just do not get into any fights :) Simon Irondome (talk) 16:14, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
Nishidani is on the side supporting the current lead. He was the only one serious in that discussion who gave a source, but he gave only one source by a International Law expert which was refuted by at least three other experts of International Law. (I actually brought a list of experts responding to his book on the subject) and his (the expert's) statement is very wierd even though he is a respected expert (He said that because Benjamin Netanyahu said in 1996 that the negotiation with the PLO imply they are a state and that Palestine is in fact a legal state from the 30s). I brought in general some three sources on that very spesific subject, another 5-10 sources by other experts implying the same thing and and some other 40 sources from other things such as news media and statement by country leaders to the UN. All of those implying things such as "Palestine is not yet a state", "Palestine is not a de-facto state", "Palestine is a de-jure state" and "Palestine is a proto-state" (state in the process of it's creation). Other users refuse to discuss. The leading person on this discussion is User:Jeppiz who refuse to discuss, saying there is a consensus and he started the false accusation of me violating a consensus. Wikipedia is literally the only place on earth claiming to be an objective source that doesn't mention Palestine's status in it's definition. And my anger is that the consensus was reached when user refused to discuss with me and User:WarKosign as well as other users who opposed the Democratic poll. An article on one of the world's most heated subjects can't be subjected to a democratic poll.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 16:34, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
There are any number of things in wiki articles, esp. leads, that I think plain wrong, but I don't touch them because either a formal or informal consensus takes a different view. Concretely, despite the conceptual flaw in making the clausal predicates into subjects in the admin's closing decision:'Neither Israel nor Palestine should denote the nations as "partially recognized states" in the lead' (= Neither page should denote the nations of either Palestine or Israel as "partially recognized states"'), this represents the RfC consensus correctly. There is a fairness to both sides here, by simply not going there. If you make an issue of Palestine's partial recognition, then the same logic will automatically flow back, with scrutiny, to Israel, which could also be qualified thus. By simply ignoring it, the question of Israel's legitimacy is unchallenged, and rightly so. That the cost from an Israeli POV is that Palestine's legitimacy thereby 'hijacks' its status because it is treated with parity, is understandable, if, I think, pointless. Most of what we do in the I/P area is frigging with pointlessness: the realities are obvious, but they must be spun to satisfy constituencies, putting aside WP:NPOV. WarKoSign's point blew up because it assumed Israel had borders, and a 'beyond', which it doesn't have. As to your long list of sources, I once compiled several dozen noting the normalcy of calling Jesus a Jew (if he existed, he died as onea and certainly wasn't a Christian), and of 'Palestinian' being the default term in historical writing for all inhabitants of Israel/Palestine. That hard work had a zero outcome. The majority hate that epithet applied to rabbis in the past, because they cannot imagine 'Palestinian' without thinking of knife-wieldiung beserkers, or suicidal bombers. So I dropped it. Jeppiz is an editor I work well with for the simple reason he is stubbornly independent, but amenable to argument. We have disagreed as much as we have agreed. It's pointless getting stoked up on this.Nishidani (talk) 16:56, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
Nish, there's a difference between a state literally 40km from me and a figure that lived some 2000 years ago. There are sources saying Jesus is a jew, there are sources saying Jesus doesn't exist, but one thing is sure, no sources were brought to support the lead section of the State of Palestine's article. I continue to argue not becuase of my POV, but becuase people even refuse to discuss it, while clearly presenting no source. You came with your source only after the change was made and as I said, you source doesn't stand alone. What kills me the most is that even the Arabic Wikipedia doesn't think Palestine is a de-facto state but as a concept and a goal.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 17:05, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
  • Do not let it kill you, or let it obsess you B, whatever you do! I'm serious. I am aware you didn't mean "kill you" literally, but do not let it burn you up. Simon Irondome (talk) 17:11, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
Bolter. 'between a state literally 40km from me.' I understand this upsets you, the lapsus is understandable. But wiki is a curious thing: it allows for WP:Systemic bias. I actually examined your sources more than what I allowed for in replying to them. There are all sorts of anomalies that arise from Israel's consistently willed refusal to clarify borders, statehood, etc., affecting both entities. If Daniel Barenboim chose to visit Japan and flashed his Palestinian passport at the gate, no one would protest he had an invalid document from a non-existent state. If he then showed his Israeli passport, idem, the reaction would be the same.In the 24/7 meme reproduction 'news' cycle we are all exposed to (well, I try to shield myself from its irradiation by hanging out between the hardcovers of a book or two for several hours), and by the fact that few mainstream sources care much for any perspective that might create slight ulcer pains in readers en transit to work in Manhatten), you'll get a lot of 'evidence' for your view. There is only one reason Palestine is not the state in the sense you imagine its status: the US and Israel won't take that final step, and unblock recognition of what most of humanity thinks is pretty obvious, that Palestinians exist, that half of the territory assigned to them by the UN Partition in 1948 constitutes their land. I wish more people were like Barenboim, at home in either reality. It would relieve a good deal of the neurosis that invests both, and delegitimates what are, in both cases, constituted de facto and de jure realities. Of course, this is not an argument, but a friendly suggestion that nothing is won by exasperation at what you take to be an injustice, just as Palestinians wound their own cause by allowing an infinitely greater exasperation, with a century old grievance, boil over into sporadic madness.Nishidani (talk) 19:07, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 20, 2016)

Ozone-oxygen cycle in the ozone layer.
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Ozone layer

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Conduct of another user

Hi, I noticed that you recently interacted with ZH8000. So did I, and I found their contributions and method of interaction with others questionable at best. I'm considering whether to initiate a discussion with them about this, and if need be, a community discussion. Would you be interested in participating in these discussions? Regards,  Sandstein  17:16, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Greetings Sandstein! Was he the bloody rude one? To be honest I have encountered a few users with "behavioural" issues lately. I cannot quite place this one. If he is affecting others adversely in addition, and making editing WP unpleasant, of course I would co-operate. Regards Irondome (talk) 18:05, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
I saw this - not sure whether rudeness was a factor there, but it certainly is elsewhere, along with competence concerns.  Sandstein  18:39, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
Ah yes. Poor use of grammar and possible incorrect information, and an unfortunate attitude. Irondome (talk) 20:04, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 21, 2016)

A small whirlpool in a pond
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Wanted to infrom you + question

That I am participating in a debated subject in Talk:Jerusalem.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:01, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for the information Bolter21. Talk:Jerusalem now on my watchlist. Keep it logical and measured. Discussion seems sane at the moment. Simon Irondome (talk) 21:24, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Not wanting to fill your talk with many many threads, in a completely different topic: I want to make a table with historical populations but a big portion of the sources are Excel files found in CBS pages. My question is; should I use the page with the download as a source or use the excel file itself? I get that many people don't like downloading stuff from the internet for obvious reasons (security and order). The reason why I am not yet linking the pages is that the spesific file I am referring to lies within a list of other files, so a reader who wants the source (and probably not an Hebrew speaker) will have to look at this page without knowing where are the statistics.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 09:49, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Use the download link. I have seen many in use as sources in articles, and if it helps clarify the point to non-Hebrew speakers it is a benefit. Most of us have sufficient anti virus /malware apps so I suggest the advantages outweigh the potential issues. Simon Irondome (talk) 13:33, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

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Operation Barbarossa

Hello Irondome. Can you tell me what territory was lost to the Soviet Union as a result (which is what happens in the end after the victory mentioned) of this war? Gerard von Hebel (talk) 16:51, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

It is not between just ourselves, Hebel but everyone who edits the article regularly. This is not the place. The article Talk page will get maximum visibility so all can comment. Regards Irondome (talk) 16:54, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
Yes Irondome I see. I've opened a section on the Talkpage of the article. Thanks! Gerard von Hebel (talk) 16:57, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
Cool Hebel. You make an interesting point. I am just opening up discussion for you so you can fully explain rationale. I am still thinking..:) Regards! Irondome (talk) 17:02, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
OK Irondome. Actually in the first phrase under "results" you restored my earlier edit which I had already discarded for an earlier one I found. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 17:07, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
Ha probably an edit conflict ;) There will probably be an argument to restore "opening of eastern front" in addition although I have thought it somewhat self-evident. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 17:12, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 22, 2016)

A photodetector salvaged from a CD-ROM. The photodetector contains 3 photodiodes visible in the photo (in center).
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Photodetector

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Just noticed your motor

So here's mine, inspired by the Long Goodbye (1973)

Lincoln Continental Cabriolet (1948) in Belgium (2015)

Keith-264 (talk) 16:53, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Cool! I just love everything about certain periods, the look, the technology, and the complete absence of smoke-free zones ;) Cheers mate! Simon Irondome (talk) 16:58, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

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HarveyCarter sock

Please don't encourage the IP at Talk:Operation Barbarossa, since it's most definitely the banned editor HarveyCarter: the same questions, the same MO, the same location. I don;t need to be a CU to recognize the guy. BMK (talk) 18:01, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Yeah you are right BMK. The trouble is he is so damned prolific. At least he bothered to claim a R/S this time. I doubt if he would follow through with a rational discussion though, even as a sock. Noted. Irondome (talk) 18:06, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Hi

No, I am not 4 days old. I hope you are just being humorous and not sarcastic. :) 108.162.157.141 (talk) 03:47, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

The former most certainly. There is space for humour on WP. I am afraid you just fell into it with the phrasing you used :) I would urge you to create an account, and add to articles here. The politics can be draining. I wish you well, and if you need any modest assistance, You are welcome here. Regards Irondome (talk) 04:00, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

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This week's article for improvement (week 23, 2016)

The Hilton Athens is part of the Hilton Hotels & Resorts hotel chain.
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Hilton Hotels & Resorts

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The Bugle: Issue CXXII, May–June 2016

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Korean edits

How does 2 Soviet AA divisions which were positioned at the Yalu river on the NK side, as well as Soviet pilots flying over a limited stretch of airspace along the Chinese-North Korean border, constitue a Soviet invasion of SK?

With regards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PersianFire (talk • contribs) 15:11, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

It certainly indicates a very close support of a NK invasion of SK. It is good to see you in dialogue in any event, which was the main purpose. Regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 15:25, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Fast

You were one minute faster than me with this edit. Not a meager feat on my talkpage. Debresser (talk) 22:09, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the Bonnat.

I'd never seen this. I'll click on it often, when that fatigue at editing the hot spots of wiki gets the better of me, and I feel, and perhaps look like, Job, if only to remind myself that I have no grounds for complaint compared to the real world that story otherwise powerfully articulates. Best Nishidani (talk) 19:11, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Your words are appreciated Nish. I have tried to create a narrative in seven images. I am not very artistic or bright, so I copied others. They try to frame the human condition, at a certain time, and in a very small place. It will frighten some away, and I don't want to be pretentious. It is just my little statement. On what, I am not even sure. Your friend Simon. Irondome (talk) 19:20, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Oh, fuck the 'bright', mate! You may not remember, as I can't help but do so, Robert McNamara leading Americans into the Vietnamese-Cambodian double genocides with The Best and the Brightest. I've been mourning, watching many videos, Muhammad Ali these last few days. I once read that the U.S. army put out he scored 75 (25% under par) on their IQ test, and he was one bright cookie who changed the world for the good. It's the bright who lead us into the dark, more often than not. Time to hit the fart sack. My best wishes, as ever.Nishidani (talk) 22:23, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
And lets not forget that the The Best and the Brightest nearly got me fried at the tender age of 13 months and 2 weeks. Sleep well son! Simon Irondome (talk) 23:12, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

The key to happiness

is not to expect it, of course. Today your fair remark at Khazars - I trust made with your habitual sense of even-handed judgement than out of a sense you owed me a helping hand in a difficult situation - well, as Clint Eastwood would have said, 'made my day'. A rumour we had 'Goan' blood survived the censorship of prim memories: if there were that connection, it was an embarrassment to some of the oldies apparently (dark skin would turn up in children even now and then)- it came from a racist forefather, who may have thought of it as a 'taint'. Once it was retrieved we were delighted in the possibility of subcontinental admixture -the more the better. I've never been convinced of the thesis Koestler popularized: yet I've read too much on it serenely discussed in the older Jewish historical literature, to think of it as threatening. Things like that are only threatening if one loses one's native feel that it is right to be solidly, imperturbably entrenched in a proud and proper heritage/identity that resists all public remonstrance that it be flaunted or hidden. Your remark set the tone - on reading it, I walked out into the garden and a fledgling finch perched on a railing, tiny enough to be at first wing, and looked up at me, unfluttered, fluffed its feathers like a passerby doffing his hat, and flew off into the big world, etc,. Of course, you know that I rely on you more to pull me up if I prove cantankerous, or throw your weight the other way if I appear to be unfair than for this kind (of) comment. I trust you to be just as critical in my regard, even if my exasperation might have its reasons. I think you know that. Have a nice evening, mate. Do keep well.Nishidani (talk) 20:23, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

You were more than holding your own corner in that one Nish. I just felt constrained to give my completely uncalled for judgement on the situation. There it now is, in poorly-cast concrete, mixed in the back garden, my judgement on the Khazar question. It is settled. It was as the old sages said, it was as new research is increasingly coming to terms with, it is true (patent applied for). It has my seal of approval. In any event I am a sucker for "myth", and this has everything to satisfy my intellectual and romantic side. You have done a bloody fine job on that article mate, and it is a pleasure to read. I am puzzled by the push-back the concept generates in so many. Ah well, maybe I am not a proper Jew. But nan had Khazar written all over her. It positively screamed out of her on on a saturday evening sitting on the sofa, watching professional wrestling (the real British variety) hosted by Kent Walton, just after World of Sport, eating grapes with the pips coming out machine gun like from her mouth, watching Giant Haystack in mortal combat with Jackie Pallo. The warrior genes, reducing to watching a 20 inch baird T.V. from Radio rentals. Judaism is colour blind. I mean the concept, and that is far different from how a few individuals act. The no - less fascinating story of the Ethiopian Jews, the obscure tribes found as far as Southern Africa affirming their links to the house of Israel, still practicing an authentic and often archaic form of Judaism, the Indian Jews, the Chinese, all need researching. But they are my sisters and brothers. I have a rock-solid confidence and pride in my heritage and that confidence brings calm in the face of new findings. It reinforces my pride. It also brings to me an open mind. I have a family of magpies I seem to be supporting now. This morning, lovely dawn, a loud thud on my bedroom window and sqwawking announced their greeting. Happiness is everywhere Nish. You just have to find the right sources. Cheers mate! Simon Irondome (talk) 20:49, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Missile boat

Hello Simon
Thank you for your thanks! And it looks like it's only taken me two years to get round to doing something about it! Another triumph of diligence and efficiency! Regards, Richard (alias Xyl 54 (talk) 23:36, 8 June 2016 (UTC))

You were merely awaiting consensus ;) Your kind words are appreciated Richard. There are so many diligent and productive editors who have interesting talkpages, and stimulating discussions thereon, who seem to slip below the radar. (No missile boat related pun intended) I have added you to my watchlist, for what it's worth. Cheers Richard :) Simon a.k.a. Irondome (talk) 23:46, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
OK; Be seeing you, Xyl 54 (talk) 23:52, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Excellent :) Good catch from commons! Simon Irondome (talk) 23:59, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

please

Simon, PLEASE humor me on this sensitive issue here. I adore you and I wouldn't argue with you out of mere spite, or as you say, "not being able to take the truth". I actually have read a lot of literature on the subject and there is no historical source saying a jewish khazarian diaspora moved into france and germany and became ashkenazi jews. it's pure conjecture. I know you think its possible but there is no direct evidence. That's my point.--Monochrome_Monitor 04:20, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

What don't you understand about my edits!? Please tell me. It doesn't make any sense to me. What are you trying to prove? The 10% figure is imaginary. There is no historical evidence of a khazarian jewish diaspora into the rhine valley. It's all cited. If you have a cite saying otherwise, please say so, otherwise again this is just you wp:notlikingit.--Monochrome_Monitor 04:24, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
Could I intrude? Who has claimed the Khazars moved into France and Germany to become Ashkenazi Jews? Nishidani (talk) 14:19, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
I meant you no harm MM. I will have much more to say on this later. A little busy over the next few hours. Regards to all, Simon. Irondome (talk) 14:28, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
Ernest Renan for example. Have you read reconstructing ashkenaz? It's a great book.--Monochrome_Monitor 20:18, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

I can't go to bed

without apologizing to you about this. My high regard for your diplomacy, care, and quiet intelligent mentoring and sober editing held me back. I did my very best, and I know, to the young, apart from my (private) POV, I can seem a windbag, not worth reading except at speed. But, what anyone sees on a talk page, or in an edit, is usually the work of hours, if not days, and to see, for several weeks now, just a light-hearted crashing past problems with the 'right solution' that turn out to be poorly sourced, or unbalanced, or thoughtless, or 'truth-pushing', is more than exasperating. MM has a long future, I don't. That means she has time to waste: time wastes me. I wish I hadn't been driven to this (perhaps it may turn out in her favour, who knows). What broke the camel's back was that warning and then, waking up, to see what looks like a gleeful storming on, reckless to all hints, but above all, to the complexity of things, including editors. It looks like triumphant malice, though I trust it isn't. The problem is she probably can't see that this is the impression she gives.Don't reply to this, Simon. It's more to ease my distaste and regret for making a report, and if I feel bad I don't need sympathy.Nishidani (talk) 22:01, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 24, 2016)

A cubic zirconia crystal made by the Shelby Gem Factory
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Shelby Gem Factory

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Thank you

For your comment on his report. I'm serious. It's a very sober proposition, and it might just be what I need. Right now I sort of treat wikipedia like paper I'm editing for school. Other people's edits are just old drafts that need to be fixed. And I spend too much time on k'pedia as of late too. For a while I was editing non-controversial topics like silent movies. Well, I lied. It was non-controversial till I edited david bret and he threatened to sue me. Hehehe. That was funny. Anyway.... I just wish both reports didn't come at the same time. That is very upsetting for me. It makes me feel very isolated. More than anything thanks for telling off you-know-who. Ethnic slurs should not be tolerated!--Monochrome_Monitor 00:23, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

You might want to see something (mentorship still?)

I"ll suggest you watch newborn discussion with Spesis II and the mother of that discussion. I don't quite know if mentorship continue or not, but from trust and respect, I"ll let you know that I got into an argument with concern to Wiki policies.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 00:26, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

I am watching closely Bolter21 Irondome (talk) 00:29, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

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This week's article for improvement (week 25, 2016)

The aqueduct of Segovia, Spain
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List of aqueducts in the Roman Empire

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Nod and a wink

something there could play badly in the wrong hands in the future B-on-wiki-upgrade prospect we both agree on, which would be unfortunate, etc.Best Nishidani (talk) 19:20, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Nishidani completely agree. Your understanding is as ever, profound. Had a strange dream you were discussing things with me last night. An out of body experience perhaps! All recieved. What to do? I presume you have broached the subject en passant. Please raise in a gentle manner if you have not already. I see considerable maturity. Your friend and colleague Simon. Irondome (talk) 01:02, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Nah, forget about it. Overdramatized, in haste (wrote before breakfast and a morning stroll), says more of me than anything else. Things are shaping up well, as we expected, and the less nanny-nagging the better, ay. Just a quiet eye, and the odd suggestion, from time to time. Cheers, Simon.Nishidani (talk) 10:30, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 26, 2016)

Home page of Wikipedia
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Home page

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Silverplate B-29's were from the factory

not field mods. B-29B were Bell B-29's that had all of their defensive armament removed, nay the Tail Gunner. The B-29A's, in the field, could not be 'modded' as they were pressurized aircraft and you could not just pop out their turrets and staple the hole shut. LeMay ordered BULLETS with held from the some of the massive burn missions over Japan in early March 1945. Afterwards, Iwo came on line and fuel was less of a challenge as the B-29s had a liferaft now available to them on the return legs back from Japan. From that moment on, late March 1945, most B-29 missions were max loaded and they could not fit anymore bombs in their bomb bays., so there was no reason to make them lighter (by removing ammunition) due to the fact that no more bombs would fit anyway. B29bomber (talk) 15:05, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Yeah I already worked that out. They were the B-29B, about 300+ being built. I think they were built by Bell in Georgia. Irondome (talk) 15:15, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Using a map as a source

Hello Irondome (Simon), you failed to intercept a rocket today. Anyways, is it ok to use a map as a source for a geographic description of a village? In the moshav of Midrakh Oz you can see in an Israeli official topographic map (as well as Google Maps, Google Earth, OpenStreetMap etc.) that there are two rivers flowing in the moshav. In other villages I saw the same and managed to find sources but for Midrakh Oz it seems it doesn't have any (almost in general, there are no sources about Midrakh Oz, not even unreliable facts, this place full of Yemeni Jews is truely a mystery). I wouldn't bother excluding this info if I didn't saw that the Czech Wikipedia used it as a source and generally their article contains more information then my English one (although I found some killer facts for DYK). What do you think? I couldn't find a satisfying answer in Wikipedia:Sources or in other wikipolicies I found there.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:56, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Was there a launch or did it assume it would fall on open ground? Ummm. If the Czech wiki is using it, it would seem a sound idea. Check for any copyright issues first on any material used. Diaanna is as usual the go-to for that. The Israeli official map, like the UK Ordinance Survey will be copyrighted. An open source map would be an excellent solution. The Czech wiki would set a precedent in using it as a source. Go for it, WP:BOLD! Cheers mate. Simon Irondome (talk) 00:57, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
It hit a kindergarten but ironically at the night before summer vacation. And thanks.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 01:10, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

a pleasant surprise

Thank you for defending me. I thought you had forgotten about me and/or despise me.--Monochrome_Monitor 04:57, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks

for that pdf of the Chakrabarti Inquiry. I only had time to scan it for material re Atzmon, turned up nothing, but will read it. Certainly not tonight, too much tension over the incumbent defeat of Italy, but tomorrow. I just realized I shouldn't have added those comments, had I taken into consideration present circs with you. Stress etc. I wish your protégée would just listen to you, and Jonney, an excellent fellow, just a little more often. Rest easy. Nishidani (talk) 16:23, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 27, 2016)

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Answering machine

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YGM

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Laundry day

FYI: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Filipz123 Andy Dingley (talk) 08:09, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Cheers Andy Dingley Andy. Yeah I reverted some of this characters' "contributions" earlier..Be over later Irondome (talk) 14:19, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXIII, July 2016

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This week's article for improvement (week 28, 2016)

An ear of rye
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Rye

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I have submitted my comment

I have submitted my comment to the ANI per your comment. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 04:30, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

I am Glad that you did accept Alexis Ivanov and that we can go forward from here. Irondome (talk) 12:01, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 29, 2016)

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Sun deck

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Edit request

Can you change "West Asian" in the Ashkenazi jews lead to "Middle Eastern"? West Asia is ambiguous and untrue as it implies iran/turkey as well. Fact is it's Middle Eastern- ie the prevalence of J1/J2.--Monochrome_Monitor 04:19, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Iran and Turkey are in the Middle East. West Asian is much better than Middle Eastern since Middle East is a eurocentric word. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 07:36, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Monochrome Monitor West Asia is the better term. Middle East is mentioned further down the lede. It is better because it is part of a section discussing the silk road, international trading links and the geopolitics of the wider area, including the Persian empire of the time. Middle east is too parochial. Expect an email later today or tmrw b.t.w. Irondome (talk) 14:19, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
MM, you are topic banned from the subject. Even if I agreed with your proposal, such an edit would be highly irregular. I obviously will not act as your proxy here, or anywhere. Drop the topic and leave it alone. Your fixation on this is puzzling. Please go and edit on old technology or anything. You keep being drawn back to these areas, like a moth to light. The articles are perfectly safe. Irondome (talk) 15:04, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

What draws me is that they are the most active articles on my watch list....--Monochrome_Monitor 16:32, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Take them off for the duration then ;) Irondome (talk) 17:10, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

 Done ;)--Monochrome_Monitor 01:33, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

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That balcony of yours

Menno Schilthuizen, 'Evolution Is Happening Faster Than We Thought,' NYT JULY 23, 2016 Thought of your bird-feeling, Simon. I'd adjust the title somewhat. 'Evolution Among non-homo sapiens is Happening Faster Than We Thought. :) :( Nishidani (talk) 10:18, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the thoughtful link Nish :) I have been off for a couple of days. Noticed activiy on the boards. Anything I should be looking at, any damsels in distress? ;) Si Irondome (talk) 13:05, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
There are many 'dumb sells' in the press generally, and we poor harvesters of chaff must sift it out to avoid our residual grey matter's dumb cells from getting pole position on the upper bandlength! Cheers pal. Hope all is well. Take it easy. I am.Nishidani (talk) 13:57, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 30, 2016)

Closeup view of a Squeegee
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Shah Ismail I

@Irondome:I would like to make an edit on Shah Ismail I and add some of his physical features on it that it is lacking, I'm using Roemer, H. R. (1986). "The Safavid Period". In Jackson, Peter; Lockhart, Laurence (eds.). The Timurid and Safavid Periods. The Cambridge History of Iran. Vol. 6. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pp. 189–350. ISBN 9780521200943. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help) as my source. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 02:02, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

I would also like to edit talk pages of certain articles, also edit my own sandboxes and non-English Wikipedia articles. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 03:20, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
Wikis in other languages are completely seperate communities with their own standards. No one on the EN wikipedia can restrict you from editing in those places.--Adam in MO Talk 03:27, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
I would like to get the approval from my mentor, if you don't mind. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 03:45, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
Ivan you can discuss things on talk pages, and edit your sandboxes and utilise other Wikis. However I will expect the standards of behaviour we have agreed to, to apply in all areas you work in. I am glad you are consulting me. Well done my friend. We will rebuild your reputation quickly if you co-operate, which you seem willing to do. Please can you explain very shortly your edit on Ismail I, and what effect it would have on the article? Call me Simon b.t.w. Irondome (talk) 12:07, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
Also Ivan, please can you keep me up to daate on all articles you are working on at the moment. Simon Irondome (talk) 12:09, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
Ismail I's article lacks a source that mentions his "fair complexion", "reddish hair" and his "regal bearing" appearance. These are eye-witness depiction and testimony of him. I also would like to edit the Safavid Dynasty page and small detail on their descendant of Ali Ibn Abi Talib, nephew of Prophet Muhammad by mentioning their direct descendant of the Seventh Imam Musa al-Kadhim who died in 799 C.E., Another edit I would like to make a correction on the Names of Istanbul page and fixed the Arabic word for Constantinople which the Ottomans used, the second i for Qusṭanṭiniyah is supposed to be elongated, while the constant y at the end should be repeated twice as it represents a long consonant, my source is Encyclopedia of Islam second edition, fourth volume, page 224. I don't have set of articles I work on, but at the moment I'm looking through Safavid articles. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 20:05, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Ok Alexis Ivanov Alexis Do the edits that you have sources for. Make absolutely sure that what you deploy are strong WP:RS. Also do not remove the existing citation regarding Ismail I's appearance. Just add the new info and source it in addition. You could word it by saying; "A seperate contemporary description describes him as.." At the same time put on the relevant talk pages your edit details for other colleagues information. I want you to explicitly state that the edits and talk pages are being closely followed by your mentor, and you can give my linked name. If you encounter any opposition DO NOT edit war or get stressed Alexis, causing you to lose your cool. I will intervene based on the circumstances if any incidents occur. But there will not be any incident 'cos you are going to keep calm, be civil and ping me if things are getting out of hand. You are to STOP editing if they are. You are doing well my friend. Your co-operation says a lot about you being WP:HERE. Keep up the good attitude and work. Regards Simon Irondome (talk) 21:53, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
@Irondome: Yes, everything is good, I was working on the Safaviyya Order Infoboxes in my sandbox, I will add the references of Shah Ismail tomorrow or after tomorrow. Just busy catching Pokemons and cycling Alexis Ivanov (talk) 04:30, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
Good my friend. I will c/e your sandbox stuff just as a second eye. All seems good :) BTW be careful of Pokemons because they carry Uzis and they get stressed if cornered. I am thinking of creating a stub on Pokemon Go Uzi incidents :) Simon Irondome (talk) 11:20, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
HAHAHAHA I will Alexis Ivanov (talk) 01:04, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 31, 2016)

History of the constellations, Ursa Minor constellation map
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Deletion review

I am notifying everyone who took part in the AFD discussion on Daniel Romanovsky. Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2016 August 3 Thoughtmonkey (talk) 18:55, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

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Do you read Hebrew?

See Talk:Israel Defense Forces#The name. I don't have a clue, but I note that the request has no direct sources, intending for the non- Hebrew speaker/reader to take the OP's word. (I can't read the Hebrew alphabet. Had I completed my graduate studies, Ancient Hebrew would have been required, but I took up alligator wrestling because it was easier than Hebrew! :) ) - BilCat (talk) 00:42, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi BilCat no i'm just beginning to learn the alphabet and from an old Berlitz basic primer I found. Hardly Kabbalah stuff at mo. But there is a guy who will. Bolter21, you got a minute mate? Irondome (talk) 14:00, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Here is a better Hebrew course. You"ll learn 50% of Hebrew's most common words here.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 14:25, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Ha! Irondome (talk) 14:48, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Brilliant, Bolter. Simon, let's get him an adminship immediately. We need someone with a great sense of humour round here! I do, anyway.Nishidani (talk) 19:53, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Happy to co-nom! Simon Irondome (talk) 19:59, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXIV, August 2016

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This week's article for improvement (week 32, 2016)

One of many icons associated with The Sims
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The Sims (video game)

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Kingdom of Israel (united monarchy)

About undoing my contribution to Kingdom of Israel (united monarchy): it is not me who cited that source, I only noticed that it does not say what the article purports that it would say. Please address this problem, otherwise we have an WP:OR problem in a highly contentious article. Tgeorgescu (talk) 18:35, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

I would suggest we reword the introductory wording leading to the quote to better reflect what it says. We as you obviously appreciate, must be rigid in our discipline in terms of balance in such a sensitive article. Regards Irondome (talk) 18:38, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Except if there were any real evidence for David's Kingdom, everyone would agree that there is evidence for it. So, imho, there is no evidence for it. What the quoted source said is that there is evidence of David's existence, not for David's Kingdom. Tgeorgescu (talk) 18:42, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Even if Davids kingdom was the size of a Tesco carpark, it was still Davids Kingdom. There appears to be an effort to denigrate the concept i.m.o Irondome (talk)
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kingdom , but even if this is not what the word "kingdom" means, the claims still amounts to original research. Tgeorgescu (talk) 18:52, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Then we shall sort it, but without the copenhagen school taking ownership. Irondome (talk) 18:59, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Forget the Copenhagen School. If there were solid evidence of Daving having ruled over a kingdom, archaeologists would be able to name it. Tgeorgescu (talk) 19:24, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Already? Your faith in the "end of archaeology" in Israel is slightly touching :). You went way too quickly to the drama boards. It can be sorted out on the article talkpage. I suggest discussion be concentrated there. Regards Irondome (talk) 19:28, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

I am to blame, that wording was all me.It used to basically say "most people think it didn't exist" which is oversimplifying the matter. That's the 90s finklesteinien view which has moderated since then with more reliance now on material culture. Anyway my thinking was basically Simon's, that is, the "House of David" means the Davidic dynasty, which I equated to a kingdom in the literal sense of a region ruled by a monarchy. Ironically the archeological evidence cannot actually be assumed as referring to a kingdom ruled by our David, rather a dynasty calling itself that after a real or mythical founder.--Monochrome_Monitor 00:31, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

FYI

I have a strong suspicion that:

Are the same editor. Per an editor interaction analyser. --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:02, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

It looks very probable Kansas Bear from that breakdown. Ummm...Irondome (talk) 01:07, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Keep suspecting Kansas Bear... (\\'arrior 786 (talk) 11:47, 3 August 2016 (UTC))

Instead of making a trolling comment, why not work on being a productive editor? Not one that edit wars, uses sock-puppets, or tries to make issues personal when they can not get consensus. --Kansas Bear (talk) 12:57, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
So what's the history here Kansas Bear? Maybe it is a pattern that can be fixed. If it goes deeper than that dispute res may be the answer. Happy to help out. Regards Irondome (talk) 14:08, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
Warrior786 has been blocked 3 times, twice for disruptive editing, once for edit warring.[8] Continues to make racist comments, "Iranian propaganda". Changes referenced information, while citing nothing but his own opinion.(Hindu/Indian and Turkish architecture couldn't combine with Persian and Islamic architecture. Has removed referenced information concerning Rumi's birth place 3 times(using false edit summaries).[9],[10],[11] Not including this "new user" Baloch rukhsani whose edits on Rumi are identical to Warrior786's.[12][13] And Baloch rukhsani(who is currently blocked) also removes all information off his talk page like Warrior786.[14] The Saffarids were an "Afghan" dynasty, yet adds NO sources for this claim.[15] Deletes the comments of other editors on a deletion page.[16]
Another example of anti-Persian-Iranian/pro-Afghan editing:
What is troubling is that Warrior786 knows how to add the Afghanistan template,[17] yet in many instances he removes the Iran template simply to replace it with the Afghanistan template with no explanation. This type of editing reeks of battleground behavior. I think this explains what Warrior786's problem is. Oh, and I find this to be very helpful. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:53, 3 August 2016 (UTC)


* "Iranian propaganda"- why whats wrong with it? isn't it true? Jamāl al-Dīn al-Afghānī look at his NAME. He clearly stated that he is Afghan. when I say Afghan, it means all the ethnic groups of Afghanistan that includes tajiks, Persians, Pashtuns, Baluchs, etc.. but the present day meaning of persian is mostly taken to the Iranian side. Mawlānā Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Balkhī where is he from?? Balkh - Northern province of Afghanistan and Kansas Bear reverting it to Wakhsh of Tajikistan, remains of his birthplace is still in Baklh. How can Kansas Bear become so ignorant? And if you say no Persia? then it is Afghan part Persia, Persia doesn't mean shi'ism and Iran, if Herat was today a part of Iran then they were persians but today when its under Afghanistan then they become tajiks?

  • Baluch Rukhsani might be a Pakistani, patriot to Afghanistan because in Persian we pronounce it as Rukhshani and only some Indians and Pakistanis pronounce "S" as "Sh" and vice versa.
  • The Saffarids were an "Afghan" dynasty.. Really is that what I've said Kansas Bear?? I Just added Afghanistan into its capital field which is Zaranj of Afghanistan and there is no city named Zaranj in Iran and sorry if I cannot give you evidences that in space there is no gravity. Ya'qub ibn al-Layth al-Saffar founder of Saffarid dynasty was from Zaranj, Afghanistan, then how can you add "The Saffarids were a Muslim Persianate dynasty from Sistan??

I'm not racist but what belongs to whom should be taken into concern and and that's how its taken to Justice, I know Afghanistan it's my country and what belongs to it and raise my voice against ignorant and nescient people. Justice delayed Justice denied

\\'arrior 786 (talk) 12:09, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
Annnnnnd we got another one going going up a steady road. Way too much incompetence editorially presented for way too long of a period, which has proven itself to be blatantly harmful to Wikipedia's content and integrity. - LouisAragon (talk) 03:38, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Sigh..\\'arrior 786 (talk) Ok. you seem to be saying that asking for references about Zaranj is WP:BLUESKY? Did you word it as "now located in modern day Afghanistan" or some such? That may have helped. I suggest much more communication, and less trying to prove a point. If it's WP:FRINGE then let it go. Has this been to the boards? I do not think it should, because there will deffo be topic bans etc imposed. Suggest we discuss here one last time. Just explain to me your main points of grievance. Ok?. Maybe we can all yet sort this out Irondome (talk) 14:17, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
  • No unfortunately I did not mentioned "present day Afghanistan" or anything like that.
  • My main point of grievance is that Persia was consisting of Afghanistan, Iran and Tajikistan. These present day countries shares many similarities, including language, culture and religion. But these similarities are further divided into sub similarities Persian the same language is named differently in each country (Farsi in Iran, Dari in Afghanistan and Tajiki in Tajikistan) and religion Othordox Shia Islam in Iran, Othordox Islam in Afghanistan, and Tajikistan whose president states don't wear Hijab... and from these differences you must know differences in culture too which divided persia into 3 parts.

because of these minor differences Iran consider itself only successor of Persia and the Persian language which is completely false. And I want every wikipedian trying to edit articles about these countries should understand this and articles that are sharing the products of these countries should not be titled as Iranian but Persian.

\\'arrior 786 (talk) 06:03, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
Let's set the facts straight, and since "Warrior786" has chosen to speak in a particular manner, he will be spoken to in that manner....
  • "Mawlānā Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Balkhī where is he from?? Balkh - Northern province of Afghanistan and Kansas Bear reverting it to Wakhsh of Tajikistan, remains of his birthplace is still in Baklh. How can Kansas Bear become so ignorant?"
This is a blatanat lie. I restored referenced information(Oxford University source) which "Warrior786" removed since he didn't like it,[18][19][20] the information stating two possible places of birth are still listed.[21] The only ignorant person is Warrior786 whose nationalistic nonsense drives him to removed references and referenced information.
More ignorant nonsense
  • "The Saffarids were an "Afghan" dynasty.. Really is that what I've said..."
The Saffarids were a Muslim Afghan Persianate. Guess they don't teach ignorant nationalistics how to read or edit, or history......
  • "Baluch Rukhsani might be a Pakistani, patriot to Afghanistan.."
Sounds like a nationalistic sockpuppet to me.
  • "I don't know what racist Kansas Bear sees in this.."
Strong words for an ignorant lying nationalistic that removes references from articles using false edit summaries(ie. lying).
  • "Hindu/Indian and Turkish architecture couldn't combine with Persian and Islamic architecture"
Really? Instead of being an ignorant nationalistic try reading a book sometime.
  • "World Heritage Monuments and Related Edifices in India, by Ali Javid, ʻAlī Jāvīd, Tabassum Javeed, page 14.
  • "Historical Dictionary of Architecture, by Allison Lee Palmer, page 263.
  • "Cultural Sociology of the Middle East, Asia, and Africa: An Encyclopedia, edited by Andrea L. Stanton, Edward Ramsamy, Peter J. Seybolt, Carolyn M. Elliott, page 73.
Many more, but since you don't have anything useful to do, try reading a book for a change, instead of plastering your ignorance all over Wikipedia. --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:55, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
  • Ok, I appreciate the responses. \\'arrior 786 (talk), I think you should seriously moderate your tone and start adopting far more WP:NPOV and use sources more respectfully. You may benefit from another editor mentoring you. If that is unacceptable to you it will inevitably be escalated to the boards. I would give you some advice as a fellow editor and ask you to reconsider your whole mode of editing. Irondome (talk) 18:06, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
Ok Kansas Bear you got me, most of your points are true that me myself didn't even thought about it. I want to ask you one question before editing, Where is Jamāl al-Dīn al-Afghānī born and to which country he belongs to?
\\'arrior 786 (talk) 17:16, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Shaksouka

Amazing what people get obsessed by, I acquired a taste for it whilst in Tel Aviv. Now one of my favourite dishes. Regards, WCMemail 20:26, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

I know W. Any fecking excuse! To compound my error, I dared to find a good strong source asserting that the Jews of the N.African territories concerned actually had a hand in creating the veg and egg version. I expect an emergency meeting of the O.I.C. any minute. FFS. Si. Irondome (talk) 20:43, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
I expect an immediate urgency convocation of the International Orthographical Society to pass a motion of censure against Simon for his fecklessness is writing 'fecking'. Bucken'ell! Nishidani (talk) 21:37, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
I admit fecking fecklessness in this sorry episode. I of course meant fucking. On a more serious note Nish, and now for something completely different, I did not mean a formal interaction ban between MM and youse :) It is a difficult situation, and I just hope our mutual friend learns the moves. Further practice may even be useful to hone my mentoree's skills. Any thoughts? I am assuming MM is pagewatching. Si. Irondome (talk) 21:42, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
I've a busy August, mate,-a lot of private work to do - and as my own contribs show, I'm AWOL most days. I don't monitor anyone, let alone MM. I didn't even knows she was editing. As to not monitoring - that's not quite correct. My wife tells me I had a nightmare last night (only 3 observed in a lifetime, a pretty rare thing). I'd noticed blood on my floor and realized I'd accidently stood on a baby gecko while stepping into the dining room, and paid the dues of guilt in sleep. After years of giving the little blighters asylum all over my home, after hearing local cleaning women kill them on sight. One of the most beautiful creatures in the world: all that remained was a scrag of tinted skin, and those big innocent eyes. So I'm monitoring myself mostly, as I tiptoe round the place. (this is both true, in fealty also to our animal metaphoric mode, and my psychoanalytic predelictions!)Nishidani (talk) 22:03, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

e/c :::::Hope it's a productive August Nish! I "hear" you loud and clear. Sorry for going off track there WCM btw, but you are one of the good uns' on here, so your presence here is a rare privilege and as you know, convos on this page can be winding anarchic things! I owe you a big bowl of shak for brekkies! Regards all. Si Irondome (talk) 22:13, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

No worries, I may treat my new lady to my own version, made with duck eggs for an extra treat. WCMemail 22:41, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia Article deletion

Hi, i see your resent comment on an article i created, the article is for deletion. I think this article should remain as it's in the right category, written from a neutral point with relevant information from reliable sources, links of references are provided and cited, and are from acknowledged well recognized news sources, such as China Daily https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Daily

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2014-08/18/content_18435219.htm

Sinovision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SinoVision

http://video.sinovision.net/?id=23755&cid=121


All information on the wiki article were pulled from the news sources cited. Would be great if you can advice or edit to improve the article. thanks. Audreylomberg (talk) 00:49, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

I appreciate your intentions to improve the article Audreylomberg. The main problem we seem to have is that the subject from sources given seems to fail WP:NMODEL in that she has no sustained notable mention as per the linked section criteria. We would need more especially in that sphere to save the article. Regards Irondome (talk) 13:55, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Making template much better

I would like to make edits on Template:Campaignbox Muslim conquest of Transoxiana by making the dates more clear, and also switching the "Wars with the Turgesh" to "Umayyad-Türgesh Wars", also making it bold and listing the same battles just underneath it. I also want to give "Reconquests of Nasr ibn Sayyar" a date range, since he reconquered virtually all cities and towns that the Umayyads have lost, and at the end I want to give a shoutout to the Abbasids, since all the battles in the infobox are Umayyads, except the last battle, the Battle of Talas 751, which decided who will wield political supremacy in central Asia, Tang or Abbasids. It was the end of the Muslim conquest of Transoxiana. The structure I follow is similar to the Template:Campaignbox Crusades Battles Alexis Ivanov (talk) 05:15, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi Alexis Ivanov. That sounds an interesting edit, especially if it follows the Crusades template. I would like you to copy and paste this section onto the article talkpage. It is only following procedure to see what others think. I worry that such a WP:BOLD edit may be reverted. Sound out consensus first. I will attempt to observe. Regards Simon. Irondome (talk) 17:35, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
My edits in templates never gets reverted, if my memory serves me right and if it does gets reverted it will be by the creator of the template who I occasionally edit with. Nothing bad will happen. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 19:26, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
Ok Alexis I will page watch it also. Simon Irondome (talk) 19:59, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
I have notified the creator of the template who is actually working on an article that is part of the template, never thought that would happen Alexis Ivanov (talk) 20:47, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
Good co-incidence, and good you are familiar with them. WP is smaller than you imagine sometimes, like R/L :) Irondome (talk) 21:19, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
You are right :) Alexis Ivanov (talk) 21:22, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 33, 2016)

Archaeological record example: a section of the Papyrus of Ani showing cursive hieroglyphs
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Archaeological record

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Bromley

Hi Irondome. Yep, you visited around the time I moved there. I'm on the other side of the world now, but the name stuck. Nice place, but it went downhill while I was there; by the time I left, I'd given up going to the Odeon, and both Army & Navy and Allders had closed. Things change, and age doesn't help :) .

Thanks again for the political context piece. It hadn't occurred to me that there might be a propaganda aspect to the original article. Bromley86 (talk) 09:17, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Yeah Bromley86 it was ok at the time. Was working at Unicorn House just near the station. Was having a cig in the smoking room there when I first heard about 9/11. About 2pm. Funny how you remember exactly where and what you were doing and even saying. Hope where you are now has better weather :). I think that article could be really expanded from material on C's site. Regards mate :) Simon. Irondome (talk) 14:21, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

The Holocaust

Irondome, I agree wholeheartedly with you that every arm of the Nazi state bore responsibility in the Holocaust. But that doesn't change the fact that the SS was the lead agency in planning, coordinating, and carrying out the Final Solution. I think the article's lede should reflect that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scaleshombre (talk • contribs) 00:29, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Scaleshombre It is highly difficult to pin down who was the lead agency i.m.o. It was Hitler himself, in frequent, secret (and to this day unknown in content) meetings with Himmler who was the prime mover in terms of motivation. The Posen Speeches indeed give an impression of Himmlers' empire taking on the responsibility, in those weird transcripts that have survived. But would it not be more accuate to say the SS, including the "Party", the nazi party itself- for by the middle of the war the distinctions become more blurred- were primarily responsible? If you can find a citation or two giving the full responsibility of the Holocaust to the SS, that would be helpful. In the meantime, I should like to add "highest leadership of the Nazi party" as an addition. Regards, Irondome (talk) 01:09, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Irondome, please allow me to clarify -- I don't think the SS bears full responsibility for the Holocaust. As you indicated, the culpability is too widespread to grant all of the blame to any single Nazi agency. As far as being the lead agency with the most hands-on responsibility for the Holocaust, the number of sources backing that up is astronomical. For example, the US Holocaust Memorial Museum notes that "The SS played the leading role in all of the major operations of the 'Final Solution.'" I think it's appropriate to add something about the "highest leadership of the Nazi party," but I think it's equally important to include something about the SS as a distinct entity within the National Socialist state as the driving force behind the Holocaust. This in no way absolves Hitler (or other leading Nazis) of the ultimate responsibility, but it's worth keeping in mind that where Hitler was the "grand visionary" of the Final Solution, the actual "bricks and mortar" of the hell he envisioned were assembled piece by piece by his most fanatical minions, the SS. Scaleshombre (talk) 02:01, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

I totally agree with your analysis. I have added an interesting little citation from Freidlander on Himmlers claims to have had this task effectively dumped on him, which he obviously relishes. I think that little section in the lede can be strengthened to support your views. Again, the posen speeches article is a rich source of referencee material, where H discusses the increasingly complex structure and roles he is taking on, and by extension the SS itself, and the turf war going on with the SS and the gau leadership. A pleasure to discuss with you, despite the darkness of the topic. Simon. Irondome (talk) 02:09, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Battle of Kharistan

I would like to add a location for this battle, much more detailed. Of course I will have a source backing it up Alexis Ivanov (talk) 21:03, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Go ahead Alexis. Do you know any of the regulars on this article? Added to watchlist. Simon. Irondome (talk) 21:21, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Is there a reason you don't just email me? It's more personal. Plus that's the main way I learn about wikipedia notifications.--Monochrome_Monitor 21:22, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi MM. I would prefer that Talkpages are used in the majority of cases, for transparency primarily. I disabled my email notification because it was choking my inbox up. If you want to vent, you can email for that ;) Simon Irondome (talk) 21:25, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

I don't think "transparency" applies here. :P But yes venting would be nice.--Monochrome_Monitor 05:19, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Well imagine a scenario where an editing issue comes up. If your original proposals are on T/P with your line of reasoning and our conversation etc, it can be used as diff evidence if someone gets stroppy. I would rule email use out for that purpose precisely for transparancy. Venting is different indeed! Si. Irondome (talk) 14:27, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Slight contretemps at Sobibór extermination camp, Simon. I have that on my watchlist since I edited it in 2013. I was surprised at sight, since familiarity with the story of Alexander Pechersky would have indicated that some Jews there were Soviet army POWS. My edit was reverted by a distinguished chappie with a habit of cropping up to revert me on occasions. This in any case is right up your alley, so have a look over it. Whatever you decide's fine by me. Cheers.Nishidani (talk) 16:29, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
I will have a look Nish Nishidani will have a rollie and a cup of tea to assist. Simon Irondome (talk) 17:57, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
I've no complaint, Si. The point is purely technical. Leads summarize, yes. Thus if there is no detail in the sections below, technically one can remove anything as failing WP:Summarey style. Objectively however in these circs, it's sensible, when one has doubts, to see if the lack of expected content reflects sources. There, evidently, it struck me as not quite correct to judge the merits of the bit re Soviet Army members in the camp in terms of what the page states. Pages are always in construction (b) the Jews with military experience from their training in the Soviet Army, played an important role in the breakout. That's why I remodulated the sentence. Best practice is to cast about in google books to verify the facts, since wiki itself is no sure guide. I'll be away for a day. Cheers Nishidani (talk) 18:52, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
I've got it on my W/L Nish. The above was my understanding also. I shall see if I can dig up anything in addition on G books & G scholar. Cheers mate. Si. Irondome (talk) 20:03, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 August 2016

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This week's article for improvement (week 34, 2016)

Heraldic Badge of the Spanish West Indies
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Spanish West Indies

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Help with sensitive matter

Some annony keeps restoring the pictures onto Template:Palestinian_nationalism which are purposefully misleading. That template is a fail in general considering there was no "state of palestine" in between the PA and the British Mandate. There was the hashemite kingdom of jordan and the arab republic of Egypt. But you know that of course. Anyway, I don't want to give up in this area entirely. At this point I'm not trying to nuetralize one-sided statements in wikipedias WP:VOICE, (like the characterization of Palestinians as an ethnic group w/ indirect phrasings as sources, despite them being defined almost everywhere as a national group) just to delete demonstrable lies and distortions. And even that is reverted.--Monochrome_Monitor 22:01, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

MM, where is this happening? How many times has the I.P reverted you? I need to check it out. I don't want you to give up any subject area MM. Things are actually working out ;) Simon. Irondome (talk) 22:06, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Just twice but it still has me concerned of the prospect of an edit war. Check out his/her contribs.[22]

Ok, MM. Don't get drawn in. Checking out the I.P. If I do not like what i am seeing, I will step in, and I mean potentially the boards. Hold off for now G please. Simon Irondome (talk) 22:14, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
I don't know what's your mentoring status, but remember that you have the legitimacy to revert him more than 72 times a day per WP:ARBPIA3#50/300. The Chief Rabbinate of Israel is now discussing about declaring WP:ARBPIA#50/300 the 614th comandment dispite the expected difficulties with the Tzitzit.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:27, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
Good spot Bolter21. I was timing how long it would take for one of you to notice that ;) Simon. Irondome (talk) 22:36, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
Please don't patronize me in your edit summaries Simon. Anyway regardless of the merit of annonys edits, aren't annonys subject to edit restrictions on sensitive articles? I'm pretty sure there are rules for this, like the 500 edit req and the like.--Monochrome_Monitor 17:50, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
Odd claim I have patronised you MM. I suspect a sense of humour failure so i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. Anyway it's sorted. ARBPIA 500/30. Simon. Irondome (talk) 20:04, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
Did you get my email b.t.w Irondome (talk) 20:07, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
It was partly facetious. :P --Monochrome_Monitor 20:10, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Holy shit Bolter, you're 17? Damn Simon, you replaced me with someone younger! Typical. ;) --Monochrome_Monitor 20:13, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

He has a good taste, I can give him that.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 20:37, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Lol as if? Irondome (talk) 20:42, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
"As if"? What is this, the 90s?--Monochrome_Monitor 20:55, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
I remember when I was seventeen... and so does Simon! My 17th birthday was awful. I was all alone at camp and the fam failed to pick up the phone until after my birthtime. Yeah, that sucked. Usually my sisters and I do a joint birthday so it was pretty depressing.--Monochrome_Monitor 21:00, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

And lol english pro-tip: the expression is "has good taste", not "has a good taste." Hahaha. The latter makes it sound like you're eating him.--Monochrome_Monitor 21:02, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Always wanted to try human meat. Thanks for the tip. Also, it is the mid 90s of the 13th century of the Iranian calander, I wonder of the Islamic Republic has a rap scene going on right now.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:05, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Nope. The morality police strikes again!--Monochrome_Monitor 21:09, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
I remember when I was 17. Big fun. It was September 1979. Of course things were always very tense then. I remember we all went out and got pissed, and I was really sick in the park. But that was nothing to do with the international situation. That was I think a bottle of pernod. I hate pernod. Now let that be a lesson to you both. Irondome (talk) 21:45, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

I assume you are using the british meaning of "pissed"? Don't they have laws regulating the sale of alcohol to children in Europe!!? And damn, you had better music.--Monochrome_Monitor 22:09, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

No you just went in the shop. Of course Craig used to have problems because he was only 5 foot, and I assume he still is. So we used to get his for him. Above all, I would like you to remember something which has got me to where I am today:

Beer after wine makes you feel fine. Wine after beer makes you feel queer.

  • Obviously this means if you are drinking brandy or a fruit based spirit and switch to a grain spirit, all will be well, but not the reverse. This is precious advice. Irondome (talk) 22:14, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Oh yes, "queer" means something a bit different here. But thanks for the advice. Might come in handy some day.--Monochrome_Monitor 22:16, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Jewish colonists

You have a good technical objection there, Simon. But I should clarify that I was translating directly from the French source. Laurens has a statistical table with a breakdown of the incidents month by month, and the details I cited are entered in the grid under 'attaques par coups de feu contre colonies juives et police'. French does distinguish between 'colon' and 'colonisateur'. There is nothing 'inflammatory' in the edit. I won't override the change, as your point is legitimate. Do note however that, technically, by the same token, all people who took up residence in the Palestinian territories post 1967 are only euphemistically settlers, but actually 'colonists'. I've never cared to make a fuss over that. Regards Nishidani (talk) 13:50, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

I would like to help you out on this Nish, but is there an English translation of Laurens? Not "inflammatory", but lets say "as a bear to honey". We know how some are attracted by words but the reaction is to explode discussion of them beyond a short edit summary, with a little clarifying note, as is your and my practice in these matters. I have been following your discussion with Kingsindian over the past hours, and it gives a good overview. Simon. Irondome (talk) 14:00, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
Okay, this translates out as a future obligation to join you in a duet, flashing a leg Fred Astaire style as we sing, in between puffs on a Balkan Sobranie cigar or two, and a large quaff of Guinness, 'Tiptoe through the Tulips'. It won't go viral on the net, but I am sure it'll raise a laugh from MM.:) Nishidani (talk) 14:20, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
Irondome, may I suggest that you consider reverting your own edit. I think the original text (before your edit) was better, because it was more accurate. Palestinians attacked these people because the Palestinians viewed them as colonialists, whereas after your (Irondome's) edit it may appear that perhaps Palestinians attacked these (Jewish) people because they were Jews. Palestinians would have attacked these colonialists even if these 'settlers' were not Jews, i.e., even if the colonialists were Christians, Buddhists, Hindu, Pagans, Bahá'í, etc ... Regards, Ijon Tichy (talk) 17:14, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
Ijon. Let's look at the merits Jewish colonists vs Jews. Hang on. I'll just light up a fag, and check the source used, because that's what counts.Nishidani (talk) 18:39, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
Laurens is a very even handed historian, though admittedly his 5 volumes make uncomfortable reading for those raised on the traditional Zionist history. He adds a huge amount of information that doesn't show up in many standard accounts: as an Arabist, he uses those sources extensively, unlike say Benny Morris. His statistical tables list all violence week by week, and, the one I cited from refers, as I said to 'Jewish colonies'. One must deduce from context, since he mentions rural bands of insurgents here, that he means attacks on outlying Jewish settlements. But he does state that 'the attacks targeted the British, their Arab collaborators and the Jews'.
I try to follow source language. Here Laurens specifies 'Jewish colonies' but also that the targets were, among others, Jews. So Simon has a point, as I did originally. The Palestinians generally viewed certainly the newcomers, as colonialists, and so do I,-Like Tony Judt, I can't see any difference between the foundation of Israel and the general history of colonization - but we can't espouse a cause here, and the source used must dictate terms. That's why I think Simon's correction is acceptable. Nishidani (talk) 18:59, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
No. Colonist is not neutral not in today’s world with its strong anti-colonist movement. You have internalized an anti-Zionist dialog. If you want to call them something call them Jewish immigrants, although that might be original research.
Colonist implies that they were government sponsored which was not really the case, immigrant would be accurate.Jonney2000 (talk) 18:51, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
I beg to differ. There are specific papers on this, showing that over the early period, Zionists, in line with the imperial model of Great Britain, France and many other countries, described itself as a colonial movement. (see also Palestine Jewish Colonization Association) [1] In the 1950s, with the emergence in the Third World of national liberation movements, this designation replaced the earlier one. Reality did not change, our language describing it did. Unfortunately, language rarely allows us pure neutrality, and even 'settler' is a term I consider euphemistic for what goes on in the West Bank. But it is the term the majority of English sources use, and so protesting is pointless. Nishidani (talk) 18:59, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
  1. ^ James L. Gelvin, The Israel-Palestine Conflict: One Hundred Years of War Cambridge University Press 2005 p. 90.:' The Jewish Agency governed the two most important Jewish colonization funds: the Jewish National Fund (which, as we have seen, bought land in Palestine) and the Palestine Foundation Fund (which underwrote immigration and settlement activities)'
The risk here is opening up a forum for something I don't care to discuss. Simon is a Zionist, I've never changed my support for the state of Israel and its legitimacy as a state, since I was a young boy. I just happen to think that everything after 1967 is a hideous disaster (what follows is the position of Yeshayahu Leibowitz, Abba Eban and Tony Judt, 3 otherwise totally different public intellectuals), a threat to that state's survival and creating a huge predicament for Jews everywhere, not to speak of the danger of a recrudescent anti-Semitism that its abominable treatment of a native population inadvertently perhaps but inexorably favours. Most of our nations began as colonies. To persist in a colonial mentality and practice long after its expiry date is a form of suicide historically. One way to understand that is to have a very clear insight into the historical processes of each nation, and learn from it, not to undo the state, but to ensure it avoids the errors intrinsic to it foundation (slavery in the US, genocide in Australia etc.). So, that said, let's just focus on the specific point. I agree with Simon's edit.Nishidani (talk) 19:32, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

It appears Laurens's statistical tables refer to "Jewish colonies." Yet the WP article Black Sunday, 1937 does not contain the phrase "Jewish colonies" anywhere, although the WP article does contain the phrase "Jewish settlements." Shouldn't the article, then, say something like "attacks on Jewish colonies," or perhaps "attacks on Jews living in Jewish colonies," or something like that? Ijon Tichy (talk) 21:31, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Apologies for temporary abscence all, assisting in decorating and all the suffering that entails. I did not realise fully what an interesting discussion it would provoke. Tired and drugged with paint fumes (I have experienced worse) I shall comment more coherently in a few hours. Oh and do call me Simon. Irondome (talk) 22:02, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

F-117

https://ria.ru/infografika/20150918/1260419491.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.162.80.51 (talk) 17:53, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for providing a source. However I dont believe it to pass WP:RS criteria at first glance. It does not appear to be a technical publication, and something in the English language would be better. Irondome (talk) 18:12, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

F-117

https://ria.ru/infografika/20150918/1260419491.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.162.80.51 (talk) 17:53, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

See comment as in previous section Irondome (talk) 18:14, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Vacation

I will be out for a week, in which I will not use Wikipedia. Good luck! Alexis Ivanov (talk) 02:19, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

I appreciate the message Alexis Alexis Ivanov and thanks for your co-operation in your mentoring! You keep me in the picture excellently as to your editing plans and even your breaks. Great stuff :) Have a relaxing time! Simon. Irondome (talk) 03:01, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
I forgot that the mentoring was over, thanks for being an excellent mentor, I have returned from my vacation (visiting relatives). Right now I don't even have a plan for editing (need to go back to my contribution list and watchlist), feel lost one week of no Wikipedia after months of editing. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 05:10, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
No Alexis I meant thanks for being a great mentoree so far ;) we got a way to go yet, and it covers you so it's a kind of insurance, and I like working with you. I will dig out the original mentoring term limit. On what to do, just carry on with what gives you the most intellectual satisfaction. Simon. Irondome (talk) 12:01, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
No problem, thanks :) Alexis Ivanov (talk) 20:06, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 35, 2016)

The Holy Family with God the Father and the Holy Spirit by Carlo Dolci
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Holy Spirit

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Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge

Hi there. I've started a new initiative, the Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge. It's a long term goal to bring about 10,000 article improvements to the UK and Ireland. Through two contests involving just six or seven weeks of editing so far we've produced over 1500 improvements. Long term if we have more people chipping it and adding articles they've edited independently as well from all areas of the UK then reaching that target is all possible. I think it would be an amazing achievement to see 10,000 article improvements by editors chipping in. If you support this and think you might want to contribute towards this long term please sign up in the Contributors section. No obligations, just post work on anything you feel like whenever you want, though try to avoid basic stubs if possible as we're trying to reduce the overall stub count and improve general comprehension and quality. Thanks.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:48, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for dropping by, oh great successor to Professor Moriarty Dr. Blofeld :). looks like a great idea and achievable. Being a wide-ranging gnome i'm sure I can find odd stuff to suit my sometimes peculiar taste to bring on. I'm in. Regards Dr B. Simon. Irondome (talk) 13:20, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, can you sign your name on the page as a supporter then? Even basic article improvements, like ref improvement/cleanup are welcome, so this suits gnomes too!♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:39, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Of course Dr. Actually I a class myself as a gnome, but I seem to be able to write large chunks of new sourced material to existing articles. I lack the self-confidence to write an article, even though I have several in mind. It is becoming a concern to me..but, enough of that. Just signing up now. Simon. Irondome (talk) 14:53, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

The comic side

Talking about natural disasters, I fainted for a nanosecond just a few nights before that catastrophe, banged my head against a steel edged border in the bathroom, lights spent, and had a Vesuvian event of eruptive bloodflow that was quite impressive as I lay watching it after my wife switched on the lights. I had an appointment to show a friend round Rome so couldn't stay in hospital for more than the half an hour required to put in 9 stitches and be informed I had a clot on the brain (my wits sharpened as I tried to think of how to translate the pun 'clot' - a clot with a clot - to the surgeon). In any case, after several hours walking around Rome's eloquent ruins, I got back, checked back in, and the new scan showed no blood on the frontal cortex, it had drained out to a huge welt under the eye. I look very impressive now - as I proudly boasted - far better to have a scarred mug than just boring wrinkles at my age. I am keeping an eye out to see if the event inflects, in minor ways, my editing -increased errors, spelling, irascibility. If you see an upsurge in symptoms, that might be it. Cheers pal. Nishidani (talk) 15:04, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Thats a huge relief, but do be careful Nish. Inanimate objects are bastards. H who knows medical stuff is saying from the kitchen even as I type that they will probably leave it, but they will keep an eye on it. Did they say they will drain it mate? I am sure it merely adds to your rugged world-weary look. Think Humphrey Bogart ;). These mishaps always seem to actually sharpen your wit in my experience of them! Si. Irondome (talk) 18:41, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Well, I noted that the newsreader tonight invented a new form of the historic past tense (decidé!!! a neologistic francicismo it would be called technically) for the correct 'decidette/decise')so I'm not yet braindead. I must take a tip from Carter in The Bucket List, and get a bathroom without sharp corners.Nishidani (talk) 20:37, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Books & Bytes - Issue 18

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 18, June–July 2016
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi, Samwalton9, UY Scuti, and Sadads

  • New donations - Edinburgh University Press, American Psychological Association, Nomos (a German-language database), and more!
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Read the full newsletter

The Interior via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:25, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Vandalism at 2005–06 A.C. Milan season

Someone is vandalizing the shirt numbers of the players, and it's not cool. I want to undo that work, how can Ambrosini be wearing the number 14 shirt in 2005-06 season when he wore the number 23. He has been wearing the number 23 shirt since 1998 Alexis Ivanov (talk) 22:27, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Just revert Alexis, Alexis Ivanov, put please discuss at talk do not revert on edit summary, drop a note including a request for them to follow WP:BRD note on user talkpage, and say they are to go to article talk. Put the source transfermarkt in the article at the appropriate place. Get them to talk. If they are removing sourced material that is vandalism and you can report it to any admin, ask them to semi-protect the article. Remember Alexis dont get drawn into an edit war or lose your temper ;) Simon. Irondome (talk) 17:28, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 36, 2016)

Wedding ring being placed on during a wedding ceremony
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Wedding ring

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The Signpost: 06 September 2016

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The Bugle: Issue CXXV, September 2016

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If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 13:28, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Question

I would like to edit the 2006–07 A.C. Milan season by adding the Coppa Italia and the regular season matches, I would also like to know the duration of the mentorship, as I think it has ended long ago, it started on 14 July for a duration of 4 weeks, next Thursday will be 8 Week double the amount. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 00:57, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Ok Alexis, ended. You did very well and co-operated to the letter. I wish you well and remember I am always here to help out. Good luck mate :) Irondome (talk) 13:30, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for being a great mentor, yes I will remember this advice and be back here if any assistance I need. :) Alexis Ivanov (talk) 03:52, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Volatile edit

Just want to give a heads up, I restored Wahhabi sack of Karbala to it's stable version because of an ongoing discussion in talk page, that hasn't reached a consensus yet and one user using a hostile language. Your advice will be welcomed. Alexis Ivanov (talk)

I have it on my watch list now. Your edit seems very reasonable Alexis. It appears to be a volatile subject. Exercise caution. Irondome (talk) 16:57, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Yes sir. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 21:03, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Abuse from Alexis Ivanov

I understand that you are (or have been) acting as a mentor for Alexis Ivanov after his past abuse of editor's talk pages and other examples of incivility [23]. He has been renewing his abusive habits, this time on my talk page [24], restoring content that I have deleted. It does appear that he has learned nothing ("like a bully who hasn't learned their lesson" to borrow an editor's earlier characterization of his behavior). Please stress to him the probable consequences if he ever repeats this activity, either on my page or on that of any editor's talk page. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 19:37, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Tiptoethrutheminefield a/ who is MHussein? b/ the edit hardly constitutes a major issue. I would suggest you stick to the talkpage to resolve the difference. Irondome (talk) 20:33, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
I am surprised that someone who considers themselves knowledgeable enough to mentor someone found guilty of talkpage abuse would not know that restoring deleted content from another user's talkpage is considered offensive behavior [25] (and in this case the offense is compounded by its repetition [26] even after the clear warning I gave here). Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 21:56, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
  • First, do not attempt sarcasm with me. second, you appear to be provoking drama over a handful of minor edits. I have told you that this should be dealt with at the appropriate talkpage. I hope this is not an unseemly rush to the draama boards. Alexis Ivanov a template can be removed after the reader has taken the message on board. I am assuming tiptoethroughtheminefield is now aware of the point you were making. Irondome (talk) 22:09, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Tiptoethrutheminefield I can't change my past misdeeds, but what I can do now is walk in straight path and make Wikipedia vandal free. It is sad that Tiptoe is trying to open all wounds. I'm just going to go and let Simon deal with you. As of MMhussein is a user who contributed in the article and gave warning towards tiptoe's hostile behavior, in his own talk page. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 21:06, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Since the abusive behavior has continued despite the warning I gave, I am now going to raise the matter with the closing administrator. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 21:33, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
I do not think that would be a wise move frankly, and at this stage. Irondome (talk) 21:36, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Alexis Ivanov, do not template the regulars please, and refrain from editing this article for now. I want to see some self- control from you in the face of provocation. Irondome (talk) 22:18, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Of course, I'm doing other edits as we speak. I'm no longer interested in entering battleground and poking the bear. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 22:20, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Good. Then by any sane measurement this subject is closed. Templating was not wise, so do not do it again, restoring it was dumb. If you have anything to say regarding civility, drop a post, using rigid self-control in wording. Do you copy? Irondome (talk) 22:25, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Yes I copy Alexis Ivanov (talk) 22:37, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
By templating you mean restoring the warning in his talk page. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 22:38, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
By doing it in the first place and restoring it Alexis, yes. Templating except in extreme circumstances is crap. If you have anything to say, drop a post using your own words. At all times keep great control over the words you use also. Irondome (talk) 22:42, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Got it, I am very careful with my words, I didn't like how this user was hostile towards Mhhossein, a long time contributor and respectable member of the community. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 22:48, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
I am sure Mhh can look after themselves Alex :) Do not get drawn into things and keep control at all times. Irondome (talk) 22:56, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Dully noted Alexis Ivanov (talk) 23:02, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Alexis Ivanov: Per my previous experience with such users, they nearly always find their ropes through a natural process! However, thanks for being concerned regarding his attack toward me. --Mhhossein talk 06:20, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

As a result of the above, and advice from Ymblanter, I will be opening an ANI case concerning Alexis Ivanov. If Irondome contributes to it I will also be mentioning the apparent encouragement of Alexis Ivanov from Irondome: his obvious failure in mentoring Alexis Ivanov, his apparent ignorance regarding guidance on talk pages, his lack of a backup warning to Alexis Ivanov about his behavior after my warning given here to him to not repeat the action and my request to Irondome to give an additional warning (this is likely to have led to Alexis Ivanov assuming that there was nothing wrong in his actions), and also his very troubling language here. Irondome states "in the face of provocation" - does Irondome actually consider that the removal of harassment posts made on personal talkpages and warning the harasser (an individual with past serious offenses related to talk page abuses) not to repeat his action is "provocation" against the harasser? Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 14:08, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

I can only assume this violent assault on you was AI putting a civility template on your T/P after you making a specific personal attack on another colleague. The re-insertion of the template was incorrect and has been fully dealt with above In which I clearly warn AI against any such further behaviour. The order in which I deal with issues on my T/P is my own prerogative. I note that you have been sanctioned before for making personal attacks. Beware of the drama boards if your own closets have a few bones in them. Just a word to the wise. Irondome (talk) 14:52, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
There are at least more bones in his closet than mine, but he finds it interesting to mention mines. If I mention his, the discussion will be less valuable and waste of time. Mhhossein you are welcome, will do anything for you Alexis Ivanov (talk) 16:45, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
I would just suggest that the drama notice be withdrawn, and that everybody goes about their business, which is to build an encylopedia. Alexis, I would like to continue mentoring you for another month, just to be on the safe side. Irondome (talk) 17:03, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
Of course. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 20:39, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Hey!

Hey Simon. Haven't seen you around in a few days. I hope that's not because of me. Listen, my foray into self-hatred has mostly ended. I'm just going to edit where I don't have to interact with other human beings as much, particularly those who hate me. Basically I'm going to maintain a discrete editing presence. I'm not going to restore user page. People would use stuff on it against me, particularly my age. And probably my gender subconsciously. And of course my participation in wikproject:Jewish history would render me "biased". I'm awfully sorry if I've hurt you in any way.--Monochrome_Monitor 14:31, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi MM, hope you are good. More detailed reply later. Simon. Irondome (talk) 14:31, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
When is later?--Monochrome_Monitor 14:44, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
Later is when I stop being massively pissed off by the pedia and the freaks that you barge into while wandering it's ill-lit corridors. I am more concerned about you MM. Drop me an email if you wanna unload. Irondome (talk) 21:41, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Have you seen this yet?

User:Antandrus/observations on Wikipedia behavior. If you haven't, it's well worth the time it takes to read it. - BilCat (talk) 23:52, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Hiya BC :) Oh yes, I often peruse it. At the moment, 39, 54 and 56 seem particularly apt. However, it is full of timeless wisdom re: surviving in this nuthouse. Hope all is well with you b.t.w. brother BilCat! Si. Irondome (talk) 00:08, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, I just re-read the list myself. I saw your comments above, and thought it worth sharing in case you hadn't seen it. I'm doing well, thanks. - BilCat (talk) 00:18, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
The less said about that, the better. I will not even dignify it by commenting on it further, either here or at the Music hall, I think you guys called it Vaudeville Theater ;) Irondome (talk) 00:26, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
To be clear, I was referring to your comment about "ill-lit corridors", not the immediately preceding section. :) - BilCat (talk) 00:50, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Copy that BC. There does seem to be a slight outbreak of odd behaviour at the moment however, 'pedia wide. I put it down to the new moon coinciding with the approaching northern hemisphere autumn equinox. Now I will have the fringe science brigade on my back :) Sometimes, yer just can't win ;) Si Irondome (talk) 00:57, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 37, 2016)

Adarsha School Narayanganj in Dhaka, Bangladesh
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Education in Bangladesh

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Alexis Ivanov (talk) 05:55, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Rare footage

of a Wikipedia:Civility dispute. [27]. Irondome (talk) 18:06, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Battle of France redux

FYI Battle of France and terminological inexactitude on the milhist page might be of interest. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 14:17, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Evans

Have you read the marvelous Evans Report? One of my favorite historical works of all time. GABgab 02:51, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi GAB, appreciate the link lots. I've read it before, but having an accessable link on my t/p is very handy. Ta :). It is one of the best shaftings of neo-nazi reasoning on record. I shall treat it as an early birthday present. Simon. Irondome (talk) 14:45, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Anytime. Equally interesting is the University of Canterbury's Report on the Joel Hayward controversy. GABgab 00:02, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
Hello, just noticed this while leaving a message. Is that the report where the university ratted on him rather than stand up to blackmail?Keith-264 (talk) 14:31, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

seljuk empire leaders

hello irondome please complained Kouhi.enmity-chauvanism-vandalism-racism doing. Please see the changes that have been made. Please contact the authorized person.

i am Osman bey and iam not sockpuppet. Please apply justice. kouhi vandalizm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Kouhi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kouhi

seljuk empire leaders Turk Leader and Turkish society you have to add the name to the Turkish interests.--88.243.161.109 (talk) 20:04, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

I will deal with it, I told you. Also try contacting an administrator to help out your registration as a Wikipedia editor, you can't be creating multiple accounts. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 22:29, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election

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Grumbles

Someone reported me. *dramatic eyeroll* There really needs to be some sort of sanction against those who consistently bring bunk cases to the ARB.--Monochrome_Monitor 00:52, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

I have left a message on you T/P before I saw this. Notifications are taking an oddly long time to appear so I have only just picked this up 15 minutes after you posted. We need to talk via email, as I am concerned that a mass of perceptions, (gender, feelings that you are hated which is crap) are getting to you. I was going to contact you but I have had my own stresses in the past week and I have what appears to be a dental abcess which has erupted in the past couple of hours which is not helping my mood. Simon Irondome (talk) 01:12, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
You don't get it, do you MM? These people will continue to do so, with impunity, until something sticks. The people active at Arbitration Enforcement are just as bad as they are. Epson Salts (talk) 01:07, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
ES, I would be grateful if you did not add any further emotional burdens to a colleague who is under some stress. Lines like "these people" do not help, and you are making claims to an eternal WP:BATTLEGROUND atmosphere which is not helping my mentoree to lower their stress level. I am sure you understand my position here. Irondome (talk) 01:22, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
I though you withdrew from that mentorship [28] - did you change your mind? Anyway, I will stop posting here if that is what you want , but I don't think you are helping MM defend herself against a bad-faith AE report brought against her by a vindictive POV-pusher, and if that state of affairs continues, she'll eventually be blocked. Epson Salts (talk) 02:16, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
Yes, basically. Although MM prefers to call the arrangement "guardian" which is amusing. We have a complex relationship ES which the community seems to tolerate, Thank G-d, as they follow its tortuous twists and turns. You are welcome to post here anytime, and the complaint appears not have gained traction with uninvolved admins. A good result for everyones reputation and sanity. I only intervene in extreme circumstances on the drama boards, and prefer to use "soft power" with all parties in any dispute, urging dialogue and other avenues. I dispise the drama boards unless they are used for cases of extreme provocation, such as explicit racism, nazi sentiment, extreme vexatious editing and obvious WP:IDHT and I am easily irritated by their use as place of first resort in most other cases. I only asked you to be more gentle in your language B.T.W. Simon. Irondome (talk) 02:21, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Question about wikipolicies

Hello Simondome. As you probably wish you never knew, all the articles related to the I/P conflict have a 1RR. This really fucks up WP:BRD. An example would be something that just happened in Gaza Strip (Article, not the territory). Someone made an edit I saw as problematic and so I reverted. He reverted my edit (as opposed to what would be expected from you according to WP:BRD, demanding a discussion. From this point, I can't do anything for 24 hours, he can be as stubborn as he wants and I could not do anything becuase of the 1RR. So I want to ask the Arbitration Committee (I think this is what I am searching for) to see if there is a way to prevent a clash between WP:BRD and 1RR. Do you know where do I do it? (and if it is actually the ARBCOM I need to ask?)--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:11, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi bolter, everything is doing my head in on here at the moment. But I know of a sane, calm voice who can answer the question better than my stressed floundering, and was the drafting arb behind the last ARBPIA. (I think was was ARBPIA3 :/). Seraphimblade, would you be kind enough to take a minute to assist our colleague Bolter21 here? It would be much appreciated. Simon. Irondome (talk) 22:27, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

@Bolter21: Of course, Irondome pings me while I'm stuck on a high-severity issue at work. But while what he said is correct, what I say carries no particular weight or authority, apart from the opinion of someone who's been around the block a time or two. (And yes, it was ARBPIA3, and I sure hope there's never a 4.)

That being said, I don't think I see 1RR as the issue here. If that weren't present, each of you could revert two more times before running up against the "hard wall", but the end result would look the same, and we'd have more disruption and reverting going on to the article to get there. The primary thing you need to do is to, rather than relying on reverts, get the dispute to the talk page. It's not the end of the world which version stays in place during the discussion, unless the material is actively harmful like a BLP violation. Otherwise, it will get set according to consensus in the end, or maybe during the discussion you can come to a version different from both of the originals that everyone can at least live with.

The other thing people often forget is, any edit that undoes something or repeats an edit undertaken in the past is a revert. So if, for example, an editor removed three paragraphs of text, or changes a sentence back to something it said in the past, that undoes previously done work and is a revert. If someone then in turn reverts them, that editor would be violating 1RR to re-revert. On the other hand, if the editor adds a paragraph, and it's never been added before, that is not a revert, since their edit broke new ground. Changes to existing content is in more of a grey area, but generally speaking, if the changes don't include large removals and aren't extremely similar to something that's been done before, that's probably not a revert either.

But the idea of 1RR isn't that someone should be counting down until the next revert is due up. That can still be considered and sanctioned as edit warring, even if both editors obey the letter of 1RR. Rather, it's to more quickly reach the point where no one is allowed to revert any more, and it comes time to sit down and use the talk page. If you come to an impasse on talk, there are quite a few other dispute resolution mechanisms. One to consider, if only two editors are involved, is a third opinion. Far too few editors are familiar with that, and it's actually kind of a cool concept—if two people come to a point where they're going in circles, they can get a quick, informal opinion from a previously uninvolved third party that might help break the logjam. And that suggestion might not even be complete agreement with one party or the other, but rather a suggestion for compromise or an alternate way of doing things.

If the dispute's more complex, there's always a request for comments. That's a lot more formal than 3O, and will take longer to put together and run, but generally will get a lot more eyes on the matter. And a lot of those eyes won't be partisans on either side of the issue, so again, that might help in coming to a decent solution that everyone can at least live with, if not fall in love with. But don't hesitate to discuss first, and then use those processes if need be. Resorting to sanctions should be a last resort for people behaving disruptively. Other than that, content disputes should be hashed out through the normal processes, and if the discussion hits a wall, don't hesitate to use those mechanisms to get the eyes of some uninvolved editors on the issue. They do take time, and they can be damnably frustrating, but if you stay calm and are willing to work with it, they do generally find a way to work themselves out. Seraphimblade Talk to me 04:57, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Not too volatile

I added an information about a vice-captain in the article Manchester City F.C. that it was lacking, their captain is injured at the moment, and user is trying to convince me it is irrelevant. Mind blowing to be honest, featured articles of football teams like Barcelona have vice-captains not only that they have 3rd captain and sometimes 4th captain, important information for the Wikipedia reader to better understand the leaders of the first team. I can't see any rule in Wikipedia that states "Vice-captains should not be recorded" your advice will be appreciated.

Here are some examples of football team articles Arsenal F.C., Manchester United F.C. and FC Barcelona, you be the judge. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 03:38, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi Alexis Ivanov Alexis. I'm afraid i'm shit at football esp playing it, so I don't watch the articles. But I will W/L them. As always keep cool, because I don't want you being given a red card ha :) Simon. Irondome (talk) 22:07, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
HHAHAHA good one :) Alexis Ivanov (talk)

NPP & AfC

A dedicated venue for combined discussion about NPP & AfC where a work group is also proposed has been created. See: Wikipedia:The future of NPP and AfC --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:26, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 39, 2016)

Albrecht Dürer, famous German painter of the German Renaissance.
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List of German painters

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Thank you

for kindly fixing my typo :), I tend to type fast and it would seem my keyboard just can't even keep up with me anymore ... It's nothing to do with me pressing both keys at once or anything , Anyway thanks for fixing it for me, Have a great day and Happy editing. –Davey2010Talk 23:12, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

No worries Davey :) I always feel a bit of a prat when I correct typos, and I only do it with colleagues I trust are not going to go weird on me and take me to arbcom or some place of execution. My typos are many and varied. Some a bit Freudian. Ho hum..Fix any you see lol. See you around bro! Simon Irondome (talk) 23:49, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
Oh man I'm taking you to AN, ANI, Arbcom, AIV, The Edit Warring noticeboard because sod it why not lol, Na I don't think you're a prat - I think you're extremely helpful and you make me less of an idiot lol, Haha will do :), See you around mate, Happy editing, –Davey2010Talk 00:29, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

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This week's article for improvement (week 40, 2016)

Hello, Irondome.

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Math rock

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I am having a nice cup of tea in a minute.

I am having a nice cup of tea in a minute. Irondome (talk) 20:32, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Alexis Ivanov

Hi, I saw you have been mentoring Alexis Ivanov. Now he has been abusive and disruptive at my talkpage and Mohamed Elneny (article and talkpage). Could you have a look and see if it is enough for a new ANI discussion? Qed237 (talk) 10:51, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

That was a long time ago. A.I. does not have air cover any more. Blocked. See what I mean? Irondome (talk) 20:39, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Have a productive year full of barnstars and reliable sources--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:35, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

A good 5777 to you and your family and friends Bolter21. The Days of Awe are upon us, and I need to cast my crap away in the river tomorrow. Got to build a few human bridges I've let go into disrepair, and generally clean up my act. Maybe I can improve on my D- report in the book of life this year coming. Hope all goes well for you too brother :) Si. Irondome (talk) 23:48, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Without a doubt

Simon,
In response to your last comment at ANI ("TheStrayDog"). Feel absolutely free to ping/message me whenever needed. I'll try my best aiding you there where you need/want it. Bests and take care - LouisAragon (talk) 02:15, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

TheStrayDog This is our safe space to talk about your mentoring

I want to help you and keep you on here. First task for you after reading the essay, see the star to the right of VIEW HISTORY on the toolbar above. Click it. It will turn blue. This will be the place where we discuss important things, so I want it on your watchlist. I will ping you also when we need to talk. Follow my guidance my friend, with a good heart, and be open to change and all will be well. I'm an old man, and made mistakes, so I will teach you, as you are a young fellow. There is no shame in that. Now I will tell you what I want you to do here.
  • First step. Please remove the association link on your user page and the symbol. Please do that for me in the next 24 hours, as I need to know you will follow my guidance. You must do it, please, so I have confidence in your wish to change. Other instructions will follow, and we will together work out the problems which annoy the community. Your friend Simon. Irondome (talk) 02:18, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
Ok, I did. then? The Stray Dog Talk Page 02:23, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
Very good. Tell me your name please. Now I am going to sleep. Please do not make any edits on articles for the next few days. WE have much work to do on THIS page! We will agree a 4 point plan here when I get up. Now log out and relax. Drink lots of tea. It helps me. You did well in removing that my friend, it shows you can listen. Good night. Simon. Irondome (talk) 02:30, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
My legal name is Amir, but they call me Ryan (locally Rayan) at home, Rayan means smart in Persian and the spelling is the same with Ryan!, my paternal great grand father was a Iranian-Jew from Iranian Azerbaijan, a feudal landholder who immigrated to the northern Iran to Mazandaran province, so I was born there. from maternal side I am of Persian descent. The Stray Dog Talk Page 02:45, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXVI, October 2016

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This week's article for improvement (week 41, 2016)

A spelling bee at Jhenidah Cadet College in Bangladesh
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Spelling bee

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This week's article for improvement (week 42, 2016)

NASA researchers at Glenn Research Center conducting tests on aircraft engine noise in 1967
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Noise

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Please comment!

Please comment on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Battle_of_France#RFC:_Scope_of_.22result.22_included_in_the_infobox

Thanks. KevinNinja (talk) 23:29, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 43, 2016)

The attic at a factory
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Attic

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Editor of the Week [22 October 2016]

Editor of the Week
Your ongoing efforts to improve the encyclopedia have not gone unnoticed: You have been selected as Editor of the Week for diffusing tough situations. Thank you for the great contributions! (courtesy of the Wikipedia Editor Retention Project)

User:Nishidani submitted the following nomination for Editor of the Week:

I nominate Irondome (talk · contribs · count · logs) to be Editor of the Week for his outstanding qualities in working to bring a degree of civilized diplomacy between editors in areas of Wikipedia where conflict is endemic. He is an authority on the mechanics of WW2, editing many articles there with erudition. On the Israel/Palestine area, which is often thought too toxic to touch, he has the trust and respect of all parties and has quietly worked to mentor promising young editors, and I wouldn't be surprised to see at least one earn an administership. He has, reading between the lines, done all this while having some health stresses in his own life, something that he has never allowed to disrupt his willingness, when called on, to help anyone with his advice, wisdom or knowledge. I've been here 10 years, and he is a very rare bird, and deserves a public touch on the shoulder like this to thank him for his dedication, and encourage him to stay with the project.

You can copy the following text to your user page to display a user box proclaiming your selection as Editor of the Week: 

{{subst:Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week/Recipient user box}}

Thanks again for your efforts! Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 19:36, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

A well-deserved honor! — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 21:27, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
I am deeply touched by such a display of kindness and comradeship, which goes to the heart of why we are here, and why we bother. Thanks! Simon. Irondome (talk) 23:48, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
Your continuing efforts to improve "WikiPediaWorld" go beyond editing. You remind us that we are humans behind our masks. Buster Seven Talk 14:16, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
Buster Buster7, that is a great thing to say. Means a lot. Seriously. Kind regards, Si. Irondome (talk) 14:26, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Thoroughly deserved :), It's a shame you wasn't nominated much much sooner but anyway thoroughly deserved well done :), –Davey2010Talk 15:45, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Cheers Davey Davey2010! Appreciated mate. Si Irondome (talk) 15:51, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Your nac

This; FYI I strongly disagree with and consider it premature, pace your good intentions. However as a party to the case I won't revert it. My appetites, sir, as are as strong as a tiger and as broad as an elephant's arse  :) Good luck with your future endeavours. Muffled Pocketed 04:09, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Well do you want it re-opened? Irondome (talk) 13:08, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
Well, I am sure that many are wondering, "I wonder what happened next?" Well we had a nice little chat and we reached a consensus that we couldn't be arsed. That is what happened next. You even get updates here. Irondome (talk) 19:52, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 44, 2016)

Street food vendors at a roadside market just outside of Hua Hin District, Thailand
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New Page Reviwer granted

Hello Irondome. Your account has been added to the "New page reviewers" user group, allowing you to review new pages and mark them as patrolled, tag them for maintenance issues, or in some cases, tag them for deletion. The list of articles awaiting review is located at the New Pages Feed. New page reviewing is a vital function for policing the quality of the encylopedia, if you have not already done so, you must read the new tutorial at New Pages Review, the linked guides and essays, and fully understand the various deletion criteria.

  • Be nice to new users - they are often not aware of doing anything wrong.
  • You will frequently be asked by users to explain why their page is being deleted - be formal and polite in your approach to them too, even if they are not.
  • Don't review a page if you are not sure what to do. Just leave it for another reviewer.
  • Remember that quality is quintessential to good patrolling. Take your time to patrol each article, there is no rush. Use the message feature and offer basic advice.

The reviewer right does not change your status or how you can edit articles. If you no longer want this user right, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. In case of abuse or persistent inaccuracy of reviewing, the right can be revoked at any time by an administrator. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:16, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Your message and advice is appreciated Chris, as is your trust. I will use the tool wisely and will always seek advice from those wiser and more experienced. The odd request for advice may come your way. Regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 03:23, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Just a question...

I had a conversation with the father of my friend, who said he is a revisionist Zionist (And to me, adding more labels to "Zionist" sounds wierd)... So I thought, how does your "Labour Zionism" is expressed? As a Londonian, obviously not trying to establish a Jewish working state in London.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:52, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Bolter21, one of the best and toughest questions I have been faced with. The answer may be long boring and rambling. How political do I feel today? I mean now, today, not my ongoing present "today". More later. On a different subject, you are aware you would make a great admin, right?. Your maturity, intelligence and ability to make decisions under pressure are a very promising skills set. You should think about it in the next year or two. Simon. Irondome (talk) 14:14, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
Mate, next year I"ll be rotting somewhere near the border of Lebanon or in East Jerusalem in green uniform with 30 degrees celsius with no air conditioner. Anyway, last weekend (which is still ongoing) was the longest in my life, cause I literally did nothing. So I have all the time and patience for whatever answer you"ll bring.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 14:22, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
You obviously have had your gibush, is that what its called, so you know what branch you are going to follow. You will end up with a couple of green stripes on each shoulder. You will be entering arguably the most technically advanced and innovative armed force in the world, when it is not rotting in soul-destroying (for all) "occupation" duties. In the north you will be guarding all that you know, love and sometimes hate, but at least you have the freedom to say so, unlike the poor bastards you might face. The navy is expanding massively. That would be a different path. I expect you to be editing here for many many years to come mate. Simon. Irondome (talk) 14:41, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 19

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 19, September–October 2016
by Nikkimaria, Sadads and UY Scuti

  • New and expanded donations - Foreign Affairs, Open Edition, and many more
  • New Library Card Platform and Conference news
  • Spotlight: Fixing one million broken links

Read the full newsletter



19:07, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank You

 Buster Seven Talk 13:53, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

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This week's article for improvement (week 45, 2016)

A sword dance performance
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Sword dance

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The Bugle: Issue CXXVII, November 2016

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If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 11:31, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 46, 2016)

A woman wearing a dress
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Dress

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Back from a short Wikibreak

I was just breathing the air. I can confirm I am not:

  • Sulking/Retired
  • Trapped in a lift
  • In a two week drink and drug-fueled sex orgy (wot, with my back?)

Irondome (talk) 18:23, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Vandalism

Hello, there's been some recent vandalism from a user with this account (119.30.35.78). He makes malicious edits on this three pages (Argentina national football team, Argentina–Brazil football rivalry and Roca Cup), by posting a false result from a game that never happened and using a false link that redirects to a dead website. Hope some measures could be taken by a mod. Thanks!

Hello I.P. I am not an administrator, so I have no "powers" to block or in any way sanction editors. I would suggest you initially discuss this on the article talkpage. If you wish to take it further, I would strongly suggest that you register as an account. This will give any case you may have more credibilty in the eyes of the WP community if you do do indeed want to pursue this. It is a fact, however unpleasant it may be for an encylopedia "anyone can edit", that I.P accounts are treated with some suspicion. I would urge you to register, for a host of reasons. Regards, Irondome (talk) 03:28, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 47, 2016)

A cleaning sponge
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Sponge (material)

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ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, Irondome. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Jack Nissenthal

Was reading the Dieppe Raid article today and saw mention of the extraordinary part that Jack Nissenthal had in it. Was surprised we don't have an article about him. Then I saw where you said on your talk that you were about to/contemplating writing the article. Still going to do it? Cheers Moriori (talk) 00:13, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi Moriori good to hear from you. Yes, it's in the higher-priority to-do list. I have found a source which gives considerable background to his early life and actual pre-Dieppe service and more background as to the extent of his practical expertise. Obviously it covers the raid itself. It should be enough to begin. Need additional sources though, esp covering Jack's later life. I agree it is high time for an article. Simon. Irondome (talk) 17:28, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 4 November 2016

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New Page Review - newsletter

Hello Simon Adler,
Breaking the back of the backlog
We now have 809 New Page Reviewers! Most of you requested the user right to be able to do something about the huge backlog. Now it's time for action.
Mid July to 01 Oct 2016

If each reviewer does only 10 reviews a day over five days, the backlog will be down to zero and the daily input can then be processed by each reviewer doing only 2 or 3 reviews a day - that's about 5 minutes work!
Let's get that over and done with in time to relax for the holidays.

Second set of eyes

Not only are New Page Reviewers the guardians of quality of new articles, they are also in a position to ensure that pages are being correctly tagged for deletion and maintenance and that new authors are not being bitten. This is an important feature of your work. Read about it at the new Monitoring the system section in the tutorial.

Getting the tools we need - 2016 WMF Wishlist Survey: Please vote

With some tweaks to their look, and some additional features, Page Curation and New Pages Feed could easily be the best tools for patrollers and reviewers. We've listed most of what what we need at the 2016 WMF Wishlist Survey. Voting starts on 28 November - please turn out to make our bid the Foundation's top priority. Please help also by improving or commenting on our Wishlist entry at the Community Wishlist Survey. Many other important user suggestions are listed at at Page Curation.

Sent to all New Page Reviewers. Discuss this newsletter here. If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself from the mailing list. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:16, 26 November 2016 (UTC) .

This week's article for improvement (week 48, 2016)

Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Homework

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globalsecurity.org EL removals

FYI: Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#globalsecurity.org Andy Dingley (talk) 18:14, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

(e/c)I intend to continue reverting if the editor does not start explaining their rationale on some board very soon. There is no explanation given whatsoever why this widely used (and as far as I am aware, completely unchallenged) source is a "conspiracy" site. Irondome (talk) 18:24, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
I've also raised the issue at WT:MILHIST#GlobalSecurity.org removals. - BilCat (talk) 18:20, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 49, 2016)

Three Martinis
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Three-martini lunch

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The Bugle: Issue CXXVIII, December 2016

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If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 14:10, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

BBC 12-hour Editathon - large influx of new pages & drafts expected

New Page Reviewers are asked to be especially on the look out 08:00-20:00 UTC (that's local London time - check your USA and AUS times) on Thursday 8 December for new pages. The BBC together with Wikimedia UK is holding a large 12-hour editathon. Many new articles and drafts are expected. See BBC 100 Women 2016: How to join our edit-a-thon. Follow also on #100womenwiki, and please, don't bite the newbies :) (user:Kudpung for NPR. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:55, 7 December 2016 (UTC))

New Page Review - newsletter #2

Hello Simon Adler,
Please help reduce the New Page backlog

This is our second request. The backlog is still growing. Your help is needed now - just a few minutes each day.

Getting the tools we need

ONLY TWO DAYS LEFT TO VOTE

Sent to all New Page Reviewers. Discuss this newsletter here. If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself from the mailing list MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:54, 11 December 2016 (UTC) .

This week's article for improvement (week 50, 2016)

The Dreadnought hoaxers in Abyssinian regalia; the bearded figure on the far left is in fact the writer Virginia Woolf.
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Hoax

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This week's article for improvement (week 51, 2016)

Hello, Irondome.

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Helena Bergström

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The Signpost: 22 December 2016

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Yo Ho Ho

Iryna Harpy (talk) is wishing you Seasons Greetings! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's Solstice or Christmas, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hanukkah, Lenaia, Festivus or even the Saturnalia, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:WereSpielChequers/Dec16a}} to your friends' talk pages.

Thanks for that Iryna! Much appreciated. Happy hols to you and yours! Simon. Irondome (talk) 21:51, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Merry Christmas Simon Adler!!
Hi Simon Adler, I wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year,

Thanks for all your help on the 'pedia!
   –Davey2010 Merry Xmas / Happy New Year 22:06, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Cheers mate! Appreciated, and I hope you and the family have a happy and peaceful time! Si. Irondome (talk) 22:16, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
No worries mate and thank you that means alot! :), Have a great day, –Davey2010 Merry Xmas / Happy New Year 22:30, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 52, 2016)

World plate tectonics (click on map for more details)
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Tectonics

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Season's Greetings

Hello Irondome: Enjoy the holiday season and winter solstice if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, GABgab 16:19, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message
Much appreciated GeneralizationsAreBad! I hope all is well with you and your family, and wish you a peaceful and relaxing holiday :) Your colleague, Simon. Irondome (talk) 03:33, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Merry, merry!

From the icy Canajian north; to you and yours! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 03:32, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Peace and a relaxing holiday to you and those around you Bzuk! I hope you are having a stress free and happy time my friend! From your colleague Simon. Irondome (talk) 03:36, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Happy Hannuka to all my page watchers!

A happy and peaceful festival of light to all my friends and colleagues. May a small light banish the great darkness, and may the few overcome the many, and may justice prevail. Eat plenty of Doughnuts, which also helps! Irondome (talk) 04:10, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Hanuka-Menorah-by-Gil-Dekel-2014

Voting for the Military history WikiProject Historian and Newcomer of the Year is ending soon!

 

Time is running out to voting for the Military Historian and Newcomer of the year! If you have not yet cast a vote, please consider doing so soon. The voting will end on 31 December at 23:59 UTC, with the presentation of the awards to the winners and runners up to occur on 1 January 2017. For the Military history WikiProject Coordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:00, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

This message was sent as a courtesy reminder to all active members of the Military History WikiProject.

Happy and Brave New Year!

Happy New Year!
To all my pagestalkers, and err, anyone else basically! And don't be afraid! Irondome (talk) 20:32, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Irondome!

Happy New Year!

Irondome,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
–Davey2010 Merry Xmas / Happy New Year 13:13, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

I just got up lol. Happy new year Davey2010! May it be stress free and prosperous to you you and yours mate! Don't let the doom merchants get to you either. We will get through, as we always do! Cheers mate! Simon Irondome (talk) 16:17, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Haha you lucky sod!, had to be up at 10, Thanks mate and I hope you have a very Happy and Healthy Happy New Year too :), Haha I'll give it a few days before I'm driven to the brink of madness again! , Anyway have a great yea!, Cheers mate, Dave. 00:56, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Irondome!

Happy New Year!

Irondome,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
Donner60 (talk) 09:19, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Appreciated Donner60! Likewise, to you and yours. Hope it is drama-free and happy. Onwards and upwards! Regards Irondome (talk) 16:39, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXIX, January 2017

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This week's article for improvement (week 2, 2017)

Professional audio – pictured is a portable setup of various live audio production and recording equipment
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Professional audio

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User:Asilah1981

Hi. I note your attempts to guide User:Asilah1981 and your kind offer of mentorship, and you would obviously be excellent mentor. I think we're looking at someone who clearly means well (in quite a passionate way) but who apparently just can't shut up when they need to and can't leave off the personal side of things. At ANI, Asilah1981 has been continuing the harassment/outing that is a key part of the problem, and I have, reluctantly, given them an indef block after I gave a very clear warning the last time they did the same.

Anyway, I've come here because I'm not averse to unblocking, but not without a genuine understanding of the problems (which include seven blocks in just a year) and some confidence that the problematic behaviour will stop. And I wonder if you have any thoughts on a way forward?

It strikes me that the subject of Gibraltar is one to which Asilah1981 has emotional attachment, and that maybe a mentorship period in which they accept a voluntary ban from the subject might be an idea. I'm also wondering if you might like to offer some mentorship thoughts on their talk page before they make an unblock request? But generally, I'd welcome any ideas you might have. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:07, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Hi Boing! said Zebedee and cheers for the message above. I need to think this through with several strong cups of tea and a few roll ups. There is some longstanding crap here, and I'm beginning to gauge just how deep seated it is. I will give you a provisional reply here as to a possible way forward, and will be commenting on A's page as you recommend with some ideas. Will probably ping the parties here as well in a separate section, just to see what the core issues are. It's probably not the best day to do it but I need to see if A can interact with the others without losing it. Irondome (talk) 17:17, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
Sure, I think going slowly and carefully is probably the best approach here, and getting something effective in place is far more important than resolving anything quickly. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:34, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

[29] Not a good start, comes straight back with accusations of synth and nationalist editing. I am very much inclined to go straight back to WP:ANI if this continues. WCMemail 08:21, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

[30] And you can add the problematic edit warring to force content into the article as well. Individuals have to meet notability guidelines to be included, he doesn't listen to people when they try to guide him he looks for loopholes to get his way. WCMemail 08:30, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the diffs WCM All such accusations must stop from now on. All. Asilah1981 that's another thing, I need updates on all articles you are editing so I don't have to run around like a blue arsed fly. I was under the assumption that you were not editing for 7-8 days as you said on your T/P? Irondome (talk) 17:20, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
Irondome I think there has been a slight misrepresentation of my recent, rather laid back and candid editing on the Talk Page of Gibraltar. An edit war was indeed sparked between WCM and Asqueladd but I was not involved beyond providing some sources on the talk page. I know its easy to assume that where there is smoke there is fire, but have a look at what my involvement in the Gibraltar article has actually been [| HERE ]. I would also ask you, as my mentor, to go through WCM´s diffs one more time: Have I really engaged in personal accusations of any kind? Or edit warring? I simply provided a comment on an RfC. Asilah1981 (talk) 18:43, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Irondome, [31] new editor adds material, [32] reverted by Asilah1981 without using the talk page, [33], no attempt to discuss, just revert warred straight back into the article. [34] Combative talk page post with the veiled accusation What could possibly be the reason for wanting him out of the culture section? and after doing that [35] tells me to be civil. TBH if I hadn't been waiting for you to respond I would already have been at ANI.

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WCMemail 19:59, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

WCM you are accusing me of being uncivil for politely suggesting we keep it civil, upon you aggressively accusing a bunch of stuff I don´t even understand? This is all very Kafkian. Again, I beg you to please take it easy. Fighting is a waste of time for both of us. Have a nice day.Asilah1981 (talk) 04:24, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Irondome, just something for your attention [36],[37] I wouldn't care but his own source confirms what I wrote [38]. This is despite promising to avoid the area and to avoid comments that antagonise other editors. I wonder if this is simply a competence issue? WCMemail 12:53, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

WCM, why do you have to be so hostile and antagonistic towards me? I am being civil and polite to you, apologizing where I make mistakes etc... And your response is to go to my mentor and call me incompetent? How does that help us get along? Just point to the source in the talk page in a respectful manner as would be expected of an experienced editor. I will examine it and thank you for it.

Yes, I see that he used to write in English before he became recognized, but now he doesn´t - at all, in his own words, "I wouldn´t be able to (sic)" (from your own source). The source provided by Asqueladd still presents him as "a pillar of Spanish language Literary creation in Gibraltar" which is a more relevant description than highlighting that once upon a time he wrote in English [[39]]. I can assist you with translation from a number of languages I speak, including Spanish. But please, insulting me does not help. Asilah1981 (talk) 14:33, 10 January 2017 (UTC)


[40] Fyi I also draw your attention to comments on other controversial issues. WCMemail 15:57, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Irondome, Boing! said Zebedee, I will stop begging this editor to leave me alone and I will ignore the harassment as per WP:GOAT. I think this is what you would both expect me to do. I refuse to be goaded into being uncivil with him and I am determined to see my mentorship through to successful fruition. I will not comment any further, regardless of what is said from now on. Elie.
I have requested a seven day cessation of Asilah1981's editing from controversial subjects. This is part of the mentoring agreement. I am indeed reading the diffs you are providing Wee Curry Monster Wee. I can see the issues. Elie, you must use talkpages more and be far more rigourous in your detail in using sources. Stop reverting so much. We all have POV's about things. Make WP:NPOV the alpha and the omega of your editing. This will be heavily addressed in your mentoring. Wee, (and others) I get it, but the past is the past and we must stop picking at old sores. I am aware that these behaviours are recent, but so is the mentoring agreement. We need some detente at this stage so I can start to unpick this. This is not an attack on anyone, it is just how I am reading things at this stage. Wee calls things as he sees them. But he is not your enemy. Elie, it is a good sign that you are not trying to get jabs in. Keep that behaviour up. Ok. Simon. Irondome (talk) 19:36, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
Irondome, if he'd stuck with his mentoring agreement and resisted the temptation to poke bears you'd never have heard from me. You know me, I don't bear grudges (no pun intended) but if I see the mentoring agreement breached I'll simply point it out and not comment. WCMemail 20:37, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Reference errors on 11 January

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This week's article for improvement (week 3, 2017)

Some of the human organs
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Organ (anatomy)

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Books and Bytes - Issue 20

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 20, November-December 2016
by Nikkimaria (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), UY Scuti (talk · contribs), Samwalton9 (talk · contribs)

  • Partner resource expansions
  • New search tool for finding TWL resources
  • #1lib1ref 2017
  • Wikidata Visiting Scholar

Read the full newsletter

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:00, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Edit to Basque Conflict Talk Page

Just to let you know I have made this proposal https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Basque_conflict&diff=761049124&oldid=760868406 on talk page of Basque Conflict. It is a controversial topic so thought i should bring it to your attention as per agreement. No time to get involved in argument but I hope it leads to a solution.Asilah1981 (talk) 16:16, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Now on my watchlist. Thanks for the "heads up". We will discuss this more over the coming days. I would suggest you do edit sparingly for now. I need to read up on the topic area. Avoid POV wordings, keep it cerebral and not from the kishkas (not visceral basically). The edits you have made appear to have a constructive outcome as the goal. Good. Irondome (talk) 22:49, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

And back again

Hi Irondome and happy new year, hope you are doing well. I do not know if I am knocking on the right door, but you are inadvertently involved due to your commitment with the case. I will explain myself. The lastest ANI with Asilah1981 comes from the article Basque conflict. The editors involved in the latest discussion, at odds with each other, got some kind of arrangement more than a week ago, and I thought there would be some peace after all. As it happens, just after the incident I was attacked gratuitously in my talk page over another article by a username of pretty new creation, for which I preferred to let the issue go. Just a few days later, a username of new creation came back out of the blue again with an exact claim made by Asilah1981 weeks ago in the above article to mess it up over a very sensitive and painful topic, torture (see Talk:Basque conflict to get a taste).

Sorry, as someone put it in the ANI, this is taking a piss, or as WCM put it right now, poking the bear, making a fool of me, and the whole WP community. I am really fed up, more so if the WP does not tackle this issue decisively. I only see one way out for me now, another incident, for which I have enough evidence to start with. Of course he will come back to his claims that I am recurrently attacking him with new sockpupetting allegations. Very sad, but leaves me little leeway. (He should have been banned.) However, I would like to hear from you first. Best regards Iñaki LL (talk) 22:31, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi Iñaki LL. This is very concerning obviously. Have you initiated an SPI? I can only recommend this as it is the only way to be certain. Needless to say, if there is any such activity, I will be uninvolving myself in any further developments. Irondome (talk) 14:21, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
No, I have not, but I may. I do not hold any grudges, I only see the evidence, I am not blind, and its disruptive effect on my normal activity and the WP altogether, not subsiding. I will consider my options. Best regards Iñaki LL (talk) 16:39, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
Iñaki LL, do you have the precise link to where this activity was (is) taking place. I saw evidence of compromise being reached on the usage of the concept of "taboo" in Spanish media reporting. Is it before or after this. Also is it evidenced in other article t/p's? Regards Irondome (talk) 19:08, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
@Irondome: The latest evidence is in the link provided above (history, 13-14th January), Basque conflict, the editor goes by the name User:ESeion. Iñaki LL (talk) 19:23, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
I considered my options, will let it go this time. Some editors may have ample time to dedicate to the WP, but I am not willing to run the gauntlet, not now at least, my agenda is pretty tight at work and need to focus. However, I have little doubt that poking will take place and have no doubt where the source lies. Since the mentoring will start now, I look forward to the strict meeting of the terms in which it was established, I trust you will do it very well. Regards Iñaki LL (talk) 23:06, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for that good faith confidence Iñaki LL. I trust you have seen the terms on the potential mentorees' talkpage. I believe they are as firm as can be reasonably expected in these circumstances. As far as I am concerned, they are in effect, as I have heard no concrete counterproposals from Asilah1981. In any case, I must say that I doubt A is socking. Elie may have some severe faults in editing style which I hope will be explicitly addressed over the coming months, but I do not think that is one of them. Irondome (talk) 23:22, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
I have known him for too long, I know what very well what his challenges and style are, and what is going on. All the same, I trust you in your pursuit, hope this comes to some satisfactory conclusion. Regards Iñaki LL (talk) 23:35, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
Hi Irondome, hope you are doing well. Sorry to come back, but I had to. After the intervention of two ghostly new usernames in the article Basque conflict backing up Asilah1981's political line, or better, complementing Asilah1981's nationalist rant/OR in the ANI ("Yeah, not just intimidation"), the mentored editor has continued with his OR, this time allegedly quoting from a Spanish newspaper supporting Asilah1981's views, but after I double-checked, not reproducing in the WP article what the daily claims whatsoever.[41] One more time. Now he comes with further "OR"/rambling in his personal page saying that he was never very involved in this project, etc. [42] Another statement as credible as this [43] Credibility? ... Come on, we are grown-ups. The appalling fact is this editor is unable to take responsibility for his actions, and requires someone going through his edits. And now this one-month 'break' thing... Is not this all just gaming the system? Iñaki LL (talk) 22:55, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
Hello Iñaki LL. As I have stated above, if you have suspicions, please raise an SPI. Indeed, the root cause of mentoring is precisely that a colleague has temporarily lost control of the solidity of their editing behaviours, and indeed needs close supervision until behaviours are modified. Actually a one month break is probably wise. It merely means when he returns the mentoring is extending until the 17th April. Three months is three months. I would ask you to WP:AGF, as I am, but my mentoring learning curve has taught me that it is not a suicide pact. One significant breakage of the agreement without a damn good reason will mean the situation is handed over to admin, a few of whom may be reading this. Asilah is very well aware of this. Have you taken into account the possibility that A is indeed aware that this is the last chance saloon and actually is afraid of the possibility of a ban? I am not pissing about here as a mentor. It comes at one of my periodic "difficult times" both on WP and off, so I am not wasting my emotional resources anymore than will prove necessary. Regards, Irondome (talk) 23:46, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
Thanks Irondome for your quick reply. Your effort as a mentor is of course appreciated, and you are right, sometimes off and on WP matters pile up, that is why as editors we do not want to get stuck in negative things, like having to double check other editors' unlikely edits and edit summaries, and show concern/respond. I am AGF, but do have a concern for the WP, and inherent, recurrent contradictions/breach of WP policies of the editor are untenable, per evidence, it is a total lack of respect to the Wikipedian community, not for the occurrence of irregularities, but their recurrence.
One month off as Asilah1981 is not my concern, but the completely incosistent behaviour permating his WP activity, who knows what he will come up with next. I suggest you check his latest record to spot bare eye irregular editing, very damaging actually for all of us who still believe in the EN WP (re: bullfighting). Now it is up to you to decide what you do, I trust you are taking good note, and are ready to do something about it, whatever you consider best. Regards Iñaki LL (talk) 00:29, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
Hi Simon, what is the issue here? I am indeed off wikipedia (meaning maybe one small edit every few days) Btw, when I get back into editing proper, :::::::::::I am going to propose the article Basque National Liberation Movement Prisoners for deletion.
The reasons are the following:
  • The article listing individuals murdered by ETA was deleted some years back. I dont recall the rationale.
  • This article is a list of criminals convicted and imprisoned for murder, attempted murder, kidnap or accessory to murder.
  • It aims to present them as political prisoners, martyrs and seems to present them as being imprisoned for their political views.
  • It is glorification of terrorism and there is no equivalent list of criminal outfits on wikipedia.
This is a "controversial" move I guess, so let me know your thoughts. Elie.Asilah1981 (talk) 14:21, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
I appreciate your very timely attempts to keep me in the loop of your editing intentions, as per agreement.This is indeed a controversial move. Again, avoid POV issues in terms of choice of wording. I would require you please not to propose it without a thorough discussion here, and some compromises made in terms of the rationale. Again, I need to check the history of this article. We do not want to provoke a shit-storm. The argument for deletion as it is worded above would have a high probability of creating rancour and drama, and we do not want that. I do not want that. Added to my W/L. Irondome (talk) 23:03, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 4, 2017)

Ghanaian nationalists celebrating the 50th anniversary of national independence in 2007
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This week's article for improvement (week 5, 2017)

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Asilah1981

[44] FYI. I presume this wasn't run by you first per your mentoring agreement. WCMemail 10:16, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Don´t we need to come to consensus before making controversial edits WCM? I thought that was the agreement and standard procedure on this article as per WP policy? Asilah1981 (talk) 11:38, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

[45] And again FYI. WCMemail 12:50, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

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[46] FYI WCMemail 13:20, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi Simon, as per RfC conclusion and closure (which for some odd reason has been reverted for a second time) I have added government and secondary sources to Disputed Status of Gibraltar as recommended by un-involved editors. Do have a look at my edits, they will be reverted no doubt, but let me know if you are ok with them. Best, Elie.Asilah1981 (talk) 10:01, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Elie, Disputed Status of Gibraltar is one of the potentially controversial areas which I asked you to inform me about and to discuss proposed edits prior to making them, as per the mentoring agreement. This hasn't happened, and once again I am forced to play catch up, increasing my stress level somewhat. Start following the mentoring agreement as from now, or it will be unilaterally cancelled. We made a deal, and I am not being Trumpish here! I see a discussion has started on the relevant talk page, and both the quality of policy based argument and numbers of commenting editors will determine the consensus there. If you are not going to tell me your proposed edits, then discuss them with your colleagues on the relevant T/P's before you make them. The edit under discussion is extremely charged in terms of wording used. I will comment there but I am extremely busy at this point. Regarding the Bullfighting edits, I think you are straining the Daily Telegraph source somewhat, in terms of what it actually says. I would suggest a trim and reword, to achieve a mid point wording between the original, and the new. Regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 12:55, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
I'm extremely disappointed, the edits to Disputed Status of Gibraltar are clearly POV and soap boxing the Spanish position. As noted in the RFC what is required are neutral academic opinions not WP:PRIMARY sources. I also don't see a talk page discussion? WCMemail 13:33, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
That is correct. My error, was looking at a previous thread without checking timestamp, which was in fact the tail end of the RfC. Asilah1981 please initiate a new discussion, and I suggest you revert to the last version. Make your case for proposed edits there. Another RfC is possibly required if consensus cannot be reached. Again, I would ask you to adhere to our agreement in subsequent edits. Cheers, Irondome (talk) 13:46, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
Thats cool, but does this apply to WCM as well or only me. Feels a bit unfair if WCM has a free hand editing and I can only discuss proposed edits on talk page? I added and sourced (primary and secondary) the Spanish position because the section is called "Spanish position", so I don't know what this "soap boxing" argument is about.Asilah1981 (talk) 14:38, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
Simon, are you honestly agreeing with WCM that a section summarizing the Spanish position is POV because it summarizes the Spanish position? Its a slightly insane argument, I have to say. Asilah1981 (talk) 14:44, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
I also notice that while I was away the problems and combative behavior with this article have persisted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:69.165.196.103#Your_RFC_closure_at_Disputed_Status_of_Gibraltar Asilah1981 (talk) 14:49, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
I started an RfC. Then will take to arbitration or whatever, since the last RfC remained open for like 2 months or something. ElieAsilah1981 (talk) 15:23, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Irondome, the mentoring agreement clearly isn't working, the revert warring behaviour is back, he's not discussing matters, he's making everything personal and sees everything as a battle to be won. As far as I can see he's continued with the same behaviour on other articles and with the current behaviour he's paralysing any possibility of improving this article. I'm really fed up with this. WCMemail 15:30, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

We can wait to see result of the next RfC since the prior one has been forcibly left open ad infinitum even though it has been delisted ages ago. Asilah1981 (talk) 15:42, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

There is no requirement that RFCs be formally closed. Kahastok talk 19:12, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

It has to be said that it was reasonable to perhaps expect that Asilah's behaviour would change with mentoring. But in this case Asilah has not even pretended to try to find a consensus on this, he's gone straight for formal dispute resolution. The RFC was opened less than 40 minutes after the first talk page post before anyone else had had a chance to answer. By my reading, in fact, he has broken every single line of your agreement except the first. Kahastok talk 19:12, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Kahastok/WCM you have been acting in tandem for years and I have been discussing this topic with you for months. Evidently now is the time for dispute resolution, you have made your positions clear on this specific topic since last year and have expressed no desire for compromise. Dispute resolution is the only way forwards. Nothing in my agreement with Irondome forbids me from proposing RfCs or going into dispute resolution. I also think you two are taking an unhealthy interest in my mentorship and (besides a brief clash with Inaki) are the only two wikipedia editors i have ever had issues with. Maybe you should back off your running commentary and constant emailing of Simon regarding myself, no matter how badly you want me permanently blocked.Asilah1981 (talk) 03:14, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review - newsletter No.2

Hello Simon Adler,
A HUGE backlog

We now have 809 New Page Reviewers!
Most of us requested the user right at PERM, expressing a wish to be able to do something about the huge backlog, but the chart on the right does not demonstrate any changes to the pre-user-right levels of October.

Hitting 17,000 soon

The backlog is still steadily growing at a rate of 150 a day or 4,650 a month. Only 20 reviews a day by each reviewer over the next few days would bring the backlog down to a managable level and the daily input can then be processed by each reviewer doing only 2 or 3 reviews a day - that's about 5 minutes work!
It didn't work in time to relax for the Xmas/New Year holidays. Let's see if we can achieve our goal before Easter, otherwise by Thanksgiving it will be closer to 70,000.

Second set of eyes

Remember that we are the only guardians of quality of new articles, we alone have to ensure that pages are being correctly tagged by non-Reviewer patrollers and that new authors are not being bitten.

Abuse

This is even more important and extra vigilance is required considering Orangemoody, and

  1. this very recent case of paid advertising by a Reviewer resulting in a community ban.
  2. this case in January of paid advertising by a Reviewer, also resulting in a community ban.
  3. This Reviewer is indefinitely blocked for sockpuppetry.

Coordinator election

Kudpung is stepping down after 6 years as unofficial coordinator of New Page Patrolling/Reviewing. There is enough work for two people and two coords are now required. Details are at NPR Coordinators; nominate someone or nominate yourself. Date for the actual suffrage will be published later.

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This week's article for improvement (week 6, 2017)

A high school in Malaysia
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The Bugle: Issue CXXX, February 2017

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If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 04:45, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Withdrawal of mentorship

Asilah1981 I must end the mentorship agreement, on the grounds that most of the agreed provisions have not been met by you. You have not given me prior information as to proposed edits, you have not given me advance notice of potentially contentious areas you were planning to edit, and you appear to have slipped into a battleground mentality. I have been forced to keep track of your editing patterns by info provided by Wee Curry Monster, who has been quite honest in openly leaving me alerts as to your editing which I was not getting from you. In addition you are opening RfC's without, it would seem, adequate prior attempts at discussion, and quite specifically without discussing with your mentor. I do believe colleagues above did not wish to get you banned, but with considerable pessimism, agreed with mentoring if you stuck with its conditions and altered your behaviours. This appears not to have happened. I am sorry Elie. Simon. Irondome (talk) 00:12, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
Irondome Hi Simon, understood and I appreciate your efforts so no hard feelings. The chosen mentorship framework was perhaps not adequate for commencing a dispute resolution process I am going for and I did not feel comfortable with it being leveraged as a sword of damocles by these two editors. It would have been used against me. It has nevertheless been a learning experience and has taught me a lot on how to edit wikipedia and deal with certain situations. I will remember your advice and I hope to remain in touch on this project. Lehitraot, Elie.Asilah1981 (talk) 11:48, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
One last thing, Simon, to be fully honest with you... I lost faith in this mentorship when WCM came to you to complain about this edit. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ADisputed_status_of_Gibraltar&type=revision&diff=758992068&oldid=758985348 construing it as a personal attack and informing you that he was on the verge of taking me to ANI over this https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gibraltar&diff=next&oldid=759122385. I would have hoped for you to immediately tell him to back off at that point and build some trust. Anyways, you did try and spent time guiding me, so kudos to you! :-)Asilah1981 (talk) 15:09, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

@Boing! said Zebedee:, @Drmies:, @Kahastok:, @Iñaki LL: Irondome, hope you don't mind me discussing this here, as really the only other option would be WP:ANI. [47] After being unblocked on 7/1 Asilah promised to "to tone it down and be less confrontational generally", he promised to seek mentorship, he promised to abide by a mentorship agreement. All of those promises have been broken and then we have this [48] . I don't see how any reasonable discussion can be had with this editor when he approaches any and all discussions in this manner. I mean above, he's basically saying he didn't trust his mentor. Personally I'm tired of the time sink dealing with this editor has become. WCMemail 13:11, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

I asked him after that not to post on my talk page. He has done, posting further abuse in the process [49]. Kahastok talk 18:18, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

Simon, you still believe these two editors are not determined to get me permanently blocked? I'm pretty proud of myself I have managed to stay civil and polite and not respond to a single personal attacks, though. Wikipedia has really taught me to stay cool and not to respond to aggression with aggression. You have really helped in that regards, thanks again. :-) Elie. Asilah1981 (talk) 18:41, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

Bad start, bad follow-up, the editor in question said in early January he had decided he would wiki off for a month and no wonder, petty as the detail may be, tellingly he did not honour his word. He intervened in the Basque conflict article again to push his views, showing a mild language in the edit summary and talk page. [50][51] The statement meddled with is verified and, no surprise, the reference (a Spanish daily attacking the wikipedia article and with a clearly partisan line on the issue) says even nothing on Asilah1981's claim. And then grievance started in talk page...[52] Also, removal of verified content in another article (check edit summary) [53] The editor shows a complete inability to take responsibility for his own actions, least of all honour his word, the summary lines are anything but trustworthy. Other than that, he asked Irondome to remove the Basque MLNV prisoners article altogether (see above). That is his kind of contribution. Credibility... 0; collaboration... 0. Iñaki LL (talk) 20:01, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

@Boing! said Zebedee: I would request you to carefully read all of the diffs which are being presented here as evidence of my alleged misbehavior. I hope there is a policy to protect wikipedians against such concerted action. Asilah1981 (talk) 04:52, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, but I have too many things to attend to right now to take this on as well. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:26, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
@Kahastok:@Drmies:@Wee Curry Monster: To whom it may concern, the agreement, an alternative, constructive sanction to an indefinite block, has been breached. The only consistent option out is an indefinite block of Asilah1981 per the latest Incident I bring back here [54], permanent litigation, continuous irregular editing. As suggested by EdJohnston opening a new Incident applies, although I do not know why we should be chastised again with further time wasting to be honest, all attempts to rein in the editor's erratic behaviour have failed, and I should request executive action, it is a recurrent, clear case. Although I know she may be pretty tied up off wiki, I should also ping Iryna Harpy in the hope that she can show up, since she was involved. Iñaki LL (talk) 20:26, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
I'm going to bow out of this one since I do not have the time, unfortunately, to look carefully into the matter. Drmies (talk) 00:30, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 7, 2017)

The Sun and planets of the Solar System (distances not to scale) are examples of astronomical objects.
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Astronomical object

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New Page Review-Patrolling: Coordinator elections

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This week's article for improvement (week 8, 2017)

Växjö surrounded by lakes, as seen from an airplane
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New Page Review - newsletter No.3

Hello Simon Adler,

Voting for coordinators has now begun HERE and will continue through/to 23:59 UTC Monday 06 March. Please be sure to vote. Any registered, confirmed editor can vote. Nominations are now closed.

Still a MASSIVE backlog

We now have 809 New Page Reviewers but despite numerous appeals for help, the backlog has NOT been significantly reduced.
If you asked for the New Page Reviewer right, please consider investing a bit of time - every little helps preventing spam and trash entering the mainspace and Google when the 'NO_INDEX' tags expire.

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March Madness 2017

G'day all, please be advised that throughout March 2017 the Military history Wikiproject is running its March Madness drive. This is a backlog drive that is focused on several key areas:

  • tagging and assessing articles that fall within the project's scope
  • updating the project's currently listed A-class articles to ensure their ongoing compliance with the listed criteria
  • creating articles that are listed as "requested" on the project's various task force pages or other lists of missing articles.

As with past Milhist drives, there are points awarded for working on articles in the targeted areas, with barnstars being awarded at the end for different levels of achievement.

The drive is open to all Wikipedians, not just members of the Military history project, although only work on articles that fall (broadly) within the military history scope will be considered eligible. More information can be found here for those that are interested, and members can sign up as participants at that page also.

The drive starts at 00:01 UTC on 1 March and runs until 23:59 UTC on 31 March 2017, so please sign up now.

For the Milhist co-ordinators. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) & MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:23, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 9, 2017)

Parallel goods traders queuing outside Sheung Shui Station in Hong Kong
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Grey market

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This week's article for improvement (week 10, 2017)

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Plastic explosive

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Happy Purim.

Drink safe.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 01:18, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Bolter21 good to hear from you :) I hope all is well. Good Purim to you too, have a laugh and drink safe too, like wearing leak - proof underwear and some form of head protection. It works for but it may be an age thing. Be Seeing You Si. Irondome (talk) 14:47, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXXI, March 2017

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This week's article for improvement (week 11, 2017)

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Tandoori chicken

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Spring

You mentioned you are visiting Manhattan in the spring. Well, the Carnegie Deli has indeed closed, but here are Anthony Bourdain's recommendations of even better: [55] (cf. Russ & Daughters, Katz's Delicatessen). Plus don't forget Zabar's -- another must-visit, must-experience, must-smell, must-taste. Softlavender (talk) 05:08, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi SL I really appreciate the update and links :) Timetable is slipping a bit due to R/L chaos (uurrrrg) also seriously impacting on my editing time, but 2017 is still the plan. Hope you are not being hit too badly by the snow I hear the north-east is being hit with! Regards, Simon Irondome (talk) 16:36, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
Re: Snow: Well, no. I haven't lived in NYC since 1992; I live in Hawaii now, and the only snow we get is at the summit of Mauna Kea, at 14,000 feet (4,300 m). :) Hope your plans shape up and that real-life sorts itself out! -- Softlavender (talk) 20:34, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
Haha Only about 6,000 miles and a half - dozen time zones out then :) Appreciate your words SL, and hope all's ok with you! Si. Irondome (talk) 20:59, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
By the way, in regards to your (natural) interest in Jewish culture: Although NYC is in general a noted Jewish enclave, what is also cool are the enclaves of Hasidim. The Diamond District – 47th Street between Fifth and Sixth Avenues – is overrun by Hasidim and Orthodox Jews in traditional dress (and often also hair). I find it really cool. I used to work in midtown close by, and when I was broke I sold my gold high-school ring in the Diamond District (which is also the gold district). Harry Winston is the face of the district on Fifth Avenue (but at 56th rather than 47th). There are residential enclaves of Hasidim in the outer boroughs such as Brooklyn (as depicted in the film A Stranger Among Us), but the most famous, Williamsburg (which I visited in 1986 to visit a [non-Hasidic] Jewish artist friend who had a loft there; it was a scary and rough high-crime area for other reasons), has been gentrified and is now over-run with yuppies and hipsters. Softlavender (talk) 21:57, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
SL Priceless info from someone who (By the sound of it and from the great affection I'm getting from the timbre of your words) is intimately aware of, and emotionally connected to NYC, the real New York. I would have liked to have visited in the 70's and 80's when certain districts were still economically and demographically "authentic", and had not been gentrified (in terms of time frames, London, including some of the old East End and central districts, were subject to exactly the same sweeping changes). Obviously the downside would have been the higher crime risks you mention. I remember NY being considered a "risky" destination to visit in the 70's by the media. All the same, you paint a wonderfully evocative picture. Appreciated SL! Si a.k.a. Irondome (talk) 22:40, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 12, 2017)

The long-legged buzzard is an example of a bird of prey.
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Request for assistance

Hello, I would like some assistance editing these two articles List of active separatist movements in Asia List of active separatist movements in Europe

I have explained what I think the problem is on the Talk pages of thes articles under 'Russia'. I am aware that the sources I have provided may not be the best sources, but I do not speak Russian so am unable to find Russian sources. Given that people are arrested for talking about separatism in Russia, it seems unlikely that you would find a Russian political party talking openly about independence, and so the best sources are likely to be external third party sources (or groups in exile). The exact definitions of what constitutes a 'movement' and what constitutes 'active' are also nebulous. I think these problems apply to all sections of the article, and that better principles should be hashed out and applied across the board, but at the moment I am concerned that valid material on Russia has simply been removed. Perhaps it should be removed and my understanding is flawed, but I'm not sure the evidence for this has really been provided. Really I think it needs someone who is an unbiased expert on modern Russian politics to have a look at it (or Modern Politics in general to look at the non-Russian sections), but I don't know where to find such a person. Does wikipedia have any outreach with external experts? There are an awful lot of movements on this list which are unsourced and even the sourced ones may not be particularly significant (e.g. autonomy for London, Wessex independence, Yorkshire independence), but I don't think it's for me to judge what is and isn't significant, and a lack of sourcing shouldn't mean we delete 'sky is blue' well known movements.

I have had an incident opened about me on the Administrators' noticeboard: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Halon8 I don't fully understand what this means and whether I should try to defend myself there or what. I understand that I have made some mistakes by not assuming that the editors were acting in good faith, but I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to do (and I don't think calling me a sockpppet is acting in good faith either). If I had looked at the identities of the people making the edits rather than the edits themselves I would never have made the reverts (but I'm not sure what this says about the impartiality of Wikipedia). I do not intend to make any more edits until this is resolved (and to be honest I dont edit very often anyway). I would really appreciate your advice. Thank you Halon8 (talk) 13:53, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Halon8. This appears to be primarily a content dispute. I have interacted with user Ymblanter (talk) on several occasions during my time here, and is a long standing editor with a good reputation. Firstly, try not to over-personalise any events here. Please also be careful in terms that you deploy. Vandalism and bad faith tend to create a defensive reaction. There appears to have been a suspicion that you were a sockpuppet of a banned user, but that appears to have been withdrawn. I can only advise that this be taken back to the relevant talk pages, so that a consensus can be reached as to the advisability or otherwise of the content removal that appears to be the nub of the issue. Also you can seek WP:RFC which allows other, uninvolved editors to comment (who usually and hopefully have some knowledge of the subject) and also check outWP:DR, which is very useful and gives a variety of options. I would suggest the current ANI be abandoned, and dialogue resumed, but that's just my 2p. I hope all parties get this resolved, and your impression of WP being a hostile environment is lessened or removed over time. WP is just a reflection of the real world, and one's perceptions of WP are often reflected in one's current WP:REALLIFE experiences I have found. Good luck! Regards, Irondome (talk) 15:49, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
This is not even a content dispute (from my side), I was reverting a contribution of a blocked (block evading) user and got myself reverted with a comment that this is vandalism. I have no interest in the content of the article (though I actually find it a trash can of all kinds of unsourced claims).--Ymblanter (talk) 15:52, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Thank-you for your advice Halon8 (talk) 15:13, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

User:Iryna Harpy

I agree that a talk page is not a monument, I have only reverted the edits when this user has reverted my legitimate edits on another talk page. This is the irony I was referring to. — Planetjanet (talk) 19:10, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Planetjanet (talk) We can safely assume it has been read and taken on board, in whatever sense. Just re-adding may cause stress and escalation, though I am sure not in this case. Probably best to just let it go. Regards Irondome (talk) 19:14, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
Fine by me. — Planetjanet (talk) 19:15, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 13, 2017)

The Czech philosopher Radovan Richta (1924–1983) originated the theory of technological evolution.
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This week's article for improvement (week 14, 2017)

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Synchrony and diachrony

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Books and Bytes - Issue 21

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 21, January-March 2017
by Nikkimaria (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), UY Scuti (talk · contribs), Samwalton9 (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

  • #1lib1ref 2017
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXII, April 2017

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This week's article for improvement (week 15, 2017)

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Corruption in the United States

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This week's article for improvement (week 16, 2017)

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This week's article for improvement (week 17, 2017)

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Gerald and Charlene Gallego

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Dispute Resolution Noticeboard Volunteer Roll Call

This is a volunteer roll call sent to you on behalf of the current Dispute Resolution Noticeboard Coordinator, Robert McClenon, and is being sent to you because you have listed yourself as a volunteer at DRN. If you remain interested in helping at DRN and are willing to actively do so by taking at least one case (and seeing it through) or helping with administrative matters at least once per calendar month, please add your name to the roll call list. Those who do not add their name on the roll call list will be removed from the principal volunteer list after May 31, 2017 unless the DRN Coordinator chooses to retain their name for the best interest of DRN or the encyclopedia. Individuals whose names are removed after May 31, 2017, should feel free to re-add their names to the principal volunteer list, but are respectfully requested not to do so unless they are willing to take part at DRN at least one time per month as noted above. No one is going to be monitoring to see if you live up to that commitment, but we respectfully ask that you either live up to it or remove your name from the principal volunteer list.

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The Remorse of Orestes, where he is surrounded by the Erinyes, who were identified as chthonic beings, by William-Adolphe Bouguereau, 1862
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FAC Nomination "Battle of Prokhorovka"

Hello, I nominated "Battle of Prokhorovka" for Featured Article. Your input will be very appreciated. EyeTruth (talk) 22:06, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi EyeTruth (talk) I would be glad to assist to getting it to FA. It was a pleasure working with you and others to improve the article when I last assisted. Regards, Irondome (talk) 02:39, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXXIII, May 2017

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Lars von Trier

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This week's article for improvement (week 20, 2017)

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This week's article for improvement (week 21, 2017)

People enjoying some leisure time swimming at an oasis
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New Page Review - Newsletter No.4

Hello Simon Adler,

Since rolling out the right in November, just 6 months ago, we now have 809 reviewers, but the backlog is still mysteriously growing fast. If every reviewer did just 55 reviews, the 22,000 backlog would be gone, in a flash, schwoop, just like that!

But do remember: Rather than speed, quality and depth of patrolling and the use of correct CSD criteria are essential to good reviewing. Do not over-tag. Make use of the message feature to let the creator know about your maintenance tags. See the tutorial again HERE. Get help HERE.

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If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:43, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Absolutely. There was no point asking for the permission if one doesn't get stuck in. For the next six weeks I will dedicate my time to NPP, although I'm a bit WP jaded at mo. This will be of some productive use of time at least, and avoiding any politics I am finding wearisome. I will aim for a target of 100 article starts analysed. Kudpung please keep an eye out for any errors I may make. Any feedback welcomed. Tutorials and other resources being re-read. Simon. Irondome (talk) 00:24, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 22, 2017)

Karl Pearson (27 March 1857 – 27 April 1936) was a statistician who has been credited for establishing the discipline of mathematical statistics.
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Help with editing

Thanks so much!

In fact, I requested at the "adoption" section to provide me with THREE adopters, as I am old, slow, and still confuse because of a tragic event in my life. I care very much about history and history of the Holocaust.

So, if you don't mind, I will ask sometimes Carole, and sometimes you - and if it's enough, I won't ask for a 3rd adoption.

Can you please, help me with adding a map that we can find in the Wiki Commons?

A big and very sincere thanks from the bottom of my heart!Henia Perlman (talk) 00:22, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Holocaust Discussion

Can you pleas explain to me why you annulled my editions? Thank you.Henia Perlman (talk) 14:44, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Firstly Henia, have you read my notes to you that I left on your talk page? It is important that you do that first, as it provides background to my action. Simon. Irondome (talk) 14:49, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi

Perhaps you could give some feedback at the Incidents noticeboard as you "liked" my comment. And I guess you agree with me that censorship is not the right way to deal with this. Thank you.--BabbaQ (talk) 00:29, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Apart from broadly agreeing with your argument on this, I do not think I have anything useful to add as a comment to be honest. However if WP:RS support a claim, then external attempts at suppression should be frowned upon on WP. Irondome (talk) 00:53, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
Perhaps that last part could be useful to add to the discussion. But it is up to you. Cheers.--BabbaQ (talk) 00:56, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
I was basically told that censorship was acceptable today... [56]. It is a strange world.--BabbaQ (talk) 12:20, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

G'day

Nice to hear from you, Simon. I have been remiss. I did note, coming through from Stansted some weeks ago, that English windows need some drastic structural work. No doubt the country is humongously rich, but the sashes, even in posh suburbs, screamed for carpentry. Stay well, mate. Nishidani (talk) 14:21, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Ha! Nick, I was about to drop you a longish screed later, with some ramblings. Embarrassment has hindered me from dropping you a good long note, for fear of 'where the hell has he been?'. Truth to tell I have been far more off than on WP this year, and I have been neglecting friends (important) and tasks, (pipe dreams for the WP ego), although I was planning on helping out on new page patrolling, as it is needed, but I find it oddly intimidating. I did not want WP to become a foreign country, so I thought I would renew my visa, before the denizens began to do things differently there. To my semi-relief, they have not. I do think that the latest little trip to the boards should be closed, wound up, buried and the ground sewn with salt. Maybe I will comment. It is sub-par. (The Jordan spat which appears to have been triggered by you reverting a rogue I.P.) Maybe some bridge building is in order. Sigh. My sashes have not been attended to since 1906 I suspect. See you later mate! Si. Irondome (talk) 14:39, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
I'm seriously thinking of chucking the project in. If, as SJ suggests, I should not be editing the I/P area, and he and several others are working to that end, then I see no point in working my arse off to give Wikipedia another 400 articles on aboriginal tribes, giving it the first comprehensive encyclopedic coverage of that area. Fuck it. Still, if you drop a line on my page when I'm banned or piss off to enjoy life, I'll read it. I will keep that page somewhat active for mates. Cheers, pal.Nishidani (talk) 12:51, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Henia ...

Well, they aren't listening to Carole much - think you can have much luck? It's about to make me tear my hair out. I know I'm not the best to deal with newbies, so I don't want to WP:BITE, but it's getting very old to keep fixing the mistakes. Often, the same mistakes. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:24, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

I know Ealdgyth. I am going to drop a little note to this (I suspect) elderly Holocaust survivor, or someone who has been deeply affected by it, that it is perhaps not a wise subject to be tackling at their early development on WP. Simon. Irondome (talk) 00:30, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
I'm not sure I'm up to dealing with trying to clean up table edits... at this point, I'm starting to have concerns about them not understanding how to source things and that you can't just sorta throw a source at something and expect it to fit our policies. And I'm concerned with the "correctly summarizes the spirit" bit also. This leaves aside the whole problem of WP:QUOTEFARM. I'm not to the point of starting disruptive user templates yet, but the complete failure to even TRY to listen to people when they explain how to do citations is getting really, really, really old. Ealdgyth - Talk 19:16, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
I hear you Ealdgyth, especially while you are in the middle of a massive verification exercise. I have tried to explain that to our colleague on her T/P. I would like to think my points and yours and Carole's are having a cumulative effect. Otherwise, up the road, its CIR. Simon. Irondome (talk) 19:27, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
FYI here. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:33, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
A brilliant summary of the issues. Irondome (talk) 22:46, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
Okay, so like for the fourth or fifth time I've repeated that we're an encyclopedia. At this point, I'm starting to get tired of repeating myself. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:42, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
WP:What wikipedia is not on H's talkpage maybe. She appears to be reading guidelins nd policy now. That is one we have not used, I believe. Irondome (talk) 15:56, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
I think what would help is someone else telling her it, because I've said it so many times, I think she's drowning me out. And frankly, it's wearing me out to be the point person on this. A bit of support wouldn't go amiss. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:00, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
Ok. I need to read her very long posts on T/P and parse the still outstanding issues indicated there. Just don't let it distract you from your really great effort. 70 books loaned out in one hit? Outstanding. Irondome (talk) 16:04, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 23, 2017)

Beverage vending machines in Japan
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Israeli Air Force

Hi, please help me explain FOX 50 that his 'streamlining' only makes the article worse, and removes well-sourced data. Flayer (talk) 17:16, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

He sings! He dances! He arbs!

LOL --NeilN talk to me 21:04, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

It's amazing what you can do with Wikscript when you screw it up! That was a doozy LOL Simon. Irondome (talk) 21:07, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXXIV, June 2017

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German-Occupied Territories

Good morning Simon,

Please, explain to me why the reference from EHRI is not correct; here it is again:

Reference 1: Introduction to the EHRI Country Reports on Holocaust History and Archives https://www.ehri-project.eu/national-reports EHRI: European Holocaust Research Infrastructure As a first priority the reports focus on the Axis and Nazi-occupied countries in Europe (including the North-African colonies).

Here a short suggestion for you to consider:

In November 1942, Nazi Germany invaded the French protectorate of Vichy Tunisia, (citation 1) in French North Africa, governed by Nazi collaborator Marshal Pétain. During six months, from November 1942 until May 1943, most of French Tunisia was occupied by German and Italian troops, Walter Rauff’s Einsatzkommando and elements of the SS.

Citation 1: “Guerre 1939-1945. Vichy Tunisie.” Archives du Ministère des Affaires Etrangères (Archives of the foreign office ministry” http://www.ishmn.rnu.tn/archives.htm Click or http://www.ishmn.rnu.tn/archives.htm#1

and Bonnie Squires, « The Jews of Tunisia », The Philadelphia Jewish Voice,no 27, septembre 2007 http://www.pjvoice.com/v27/27006tunisia.aspx

Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe In the 15th century, Europe started to extend itself beyond its geographic frontiers. Portugal and Spain, two of the greatest naval powers of the time, took the lead in exploring the world. … France, the Netherlands and England soon followed in building large colonial empires with vast holdings in Africa,

What do you think? I am ready to listen.

I really feel good that you are my mentor.

Thank you.Henia Perlman (talk) 16:53, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi Henia, I will be on and off here for the next 12 hours, so I cannot guarantee a swift response to additional points in that time.
  • The overall wording of the first passage looks fine. But we need other sources. I am visiting the EHRI website and I am seeing nothing which would help the reader reinforce the point it is meant to support. Please give me the website link with the specific page containing the information on it. We can easily find a source on Google books supporting this anyway. I am referring to the occupation, and the SS presence.
  • Please avoid if at all possible WP:Primary sources. Please follow the link, it will explain all there.
  • With regard to Europe, we cannot use Wikipedia as a reference to source information which will be used in another article on Wikipedia. Again that assertion can be easily backed up by a google books search. Hopes this helps Henia as an initial note! Simon Irondome (talk) 17:40, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
    • Butting in here, but Google books searches are not a good idea, especially if they just give you a "snippet view" as it is entirely too easy to miss the full context of the information. I strongly object to the use of google books snippet views to source anything. If you can get full pages, that's better, but snippets are entirely too prone to misunderstandings. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:46, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
Only if they are full previews, not snippets, with page numbers included, and you can get ISBNs, edition details and publisher, and date. On that basis I would say that Google is ok. NOT snippets. Simon. Irondome (talk) 17:52, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

The Signpost: 9 June 2017

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Your messages

I don't understand Simon, I saw all your messages only today Friday - how can I see notifications that I have messages?

France fell Henia: It is an issue of language. The fact is that because of heavy losses, Pétain ordered the French troops to cease to fight, and asked for an armistice.

And many historian incorrectly write: rance was divided into two

Please stop removing my links in addition – sorry, Simon, I didn’t notice links. I know that your patience can be limited, but I am VERY slow, and I am acting in good faith – I just noticed today your message!

Please do not make any further edits to articles: ok.

We have a lot of work to do with just this edit: I agree! One thing at a time please! Sleep well: Thanks! It’s Friday morning now.

I think I have other sources showing that French Tunisia was part of France and Europe (Longerich, Kaspi, and another one in French; Thanks!!!! Thanks for your great patience!

I am all the time ready to listen!Henia Perlman (talk) 17:37, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

I am very sorry Henia It is not my patience, but sometimes I suffer from tensions resulting from real life events, and I do sometimes sound like that. I apologise sincerely. It is not you, it is me. We are making progress Henia, so we have agreed on that draft wording. Longerich and Kaspi will do. I would prefer we used English sources. Just give the page numbers, so I can verify the material with you.
  • Alerting someone to a message is called 'pinging'. It is done like this: two {'s and a U, then a | then name, then 2 closed curly brackets like this } . Go to edit mode at the beginning of this section and you will see how I did it above Henia. A little red notification will appear on the top of the talkpage, the thing that looks like a little bell. Kind regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 20:07, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

==Alert to Messages. Editing WWII.

1. I don't get that, but I will this week-end to understand: Alerting someone to a message is called 'pinging'. It is done like this two then name, then 2 closed square brackets . Go to edit mode at the beginning of this section and you will see how I did it above Henia. A little red notification will appear on the top of the talkpage, the thing that looks like a little bell.

2. Editing a short introduction, just below "WWII" is important, as our article is also for the general public, and many scholars didn't connect at first the war and the Holocaust. I edited that section before you became my mentor. But now, I will discuss it with you, as everything else. It's distressing for me to deal with many editors.

I am reading Longerich (2010): Holocaust - The murder of the Jews, and he is demolishing the thesis of starting implementation in summer 1941. Longerich is amazing and while I was teaching the Holocaust, I was in contact with him and Martin Gilbert, a dear friend, with whom I talked often on the phone.

Be well, be grateful, and live one day at a time!

Have a nice week-end!!!Henia Perlman (talk) 21:23, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

An old friend of mine was at Oxford with Sir Martin, although sadly I personally never got to meet him. I am sure you have a very interesting background Henia. Simon. Irondome (talk) 21:40, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

German occupied Europe Suggestion without undue weight

Here it is:

German–occupied Europe or Nazi Europe refers to the sovereign countries of Europe, INCLUDING FRENCH NORTH AFRICA (ref. 1) which were occupied by the military forces of Nazi Germany at various times between 1939 and 1945 and administered by the Nazi regime.(ref. 2)

Ref. 1: Shoah - Block 27 http://auschwitz.org/en/visiting/national-exhibitions/shoah-block-27 Map of Nazi-occupied Europe (inclusive of French North Africa in map of Europe and in narrative) http://culture.pl/en/event/new-permanent-exhibition-at-auschwitz-birkenau https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/media-room/news-archive/opening-new-permanent-exhibition-%E2%80%9Cshoah%E2%80%9D-auschwitz-birkenau “… the new exhibition, which is divided into several galleries. They are devoted to such things as Jewish life before the war, the ideology of the Nazis and the extermination of Jews within the Nazi-occupied Europe.” http://auschwitz.org/en/visiting/national-exhibitions/shoah-block-27 http://auschwitz.org/en/museum/news/shoah-new-exhibition-in-block-27-light-of-remembrance-for-avner-shalev-,1016.html “the story of the Jews that were persecuted and murdered, here and across the European continent”

“In November 1942, … French North Africa … this extension of Europe ...” Kaspi, André Les Juifs pendant l'occupation. Seuil, Paris: Éditions du Seuil 1991; p. 175. * German Map of Europe of the German general staff dated 20, 1942; in p. 3 of article written by Dr. Norbert Kampe, historian and then Director of the Wannsee House, and published in SHALOM/VOL. XLI/PRINTEMPS 2004/PESSAH 5764 http://www.shalom-magazine.com/pdfs/41/Fr/KAMPE%20FR_41.pdf German map of Europe http://www.diercke.de/kartenansicht.xtp?artId=978-3-14-100770-1&seite=62&id=15966&kartennr=1# Yad Vashem writes: “Under the French-German cease-fire agreement, North Africa was considered part of unoccupied Vichy France” http://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%205726.pdf

Ref. 2: Encyclopædia Britannica, German occupied Europe. World War II. Retrieved 1 September 2015 from the Internet Archive.

I just now read messages by Carole and Eadgylt (I think), and I am truly sorry. But I am trying hard. I also thought to share with you my research, as I am planning to edit more:

France, mentioned in the article, was and is a transcontinental country, which, during WWII included mainland France or the Metropole, and France d’outre-mer (overseas) which included the 91, 92, 93, 94 departments in French Algeria, an integral part of the French republic, and the two French protectorate of Morocco and Tunisia; according to Kaspi there were 700,000 Jews living there (300,000 in mainland France and 400,000 in French North Africa). Kaspi, André Les Juifs pendant l'occupation. Seuil, Paris: Éditions du Seuil 1991; p. 177

  • In his book Himmler A Life, Longerich writes that in December 1942, Himmler discussed with Hitler the destruction of 600-700.000 Jews of France: “… there are currently at least 1.5 million deadly enemies of the Axis living … in the previously part of France, namely 600,000-700,000 Jews… ‘The Fuhrer gave orders that the Jews and other enemies in France should be arrested and deported. This should take place, however, only once he has spoken with Laval about it. It is a matter of 6-700.000 Jews.’" in ch. 21. The Murder of the European Jews, p. 648.
  • Longerich tells about the fate of the Jews in French North Africa as part of the Holocaust in France, in his “brief survey of the fate of the Jews in the countries occupied by and allied with Germany” and the “systematic murder of the Jews of Europe” (Longerich, Peter (2010). Holocaust: The Nazi Persecution and Murder of the Jews. Oxford; New York: Oxford University Press; p. 435, and p. 492).

“Included in the 700,000 Jews for unoccupied France are those of the North African colonies.” p. 307. “… the Jews of French North Africa, who had already been included among the victims of the coming ‘Final Solution’ envisaged at the Wannsee Conference.” p. 391

A successor to the Madagascar project In his note for Himmler Eichmann wrote that this project would encompass ‘a total of some 5.8 million Jews’, … four million …Madagascar project. Planning had evidently been extended in the meantime to include German allies and satellites in Estern Europe and the Jews in the French colonies. p. 173.

Madagascar project … Rademacher’s August memo … he now estimated the number of Jews to be sent to Madagascar as 6.5 million, an indication that the Jews from south-east Europe as well as those from the French colonies in North Africa were to be included. p. 510.

Yehuda Bauer, Academic Advisor to YV, tells about the fate of the Jews in French North Africa in his section on the Jews in Europe in his book A History of the Holocaust, (1982), (p. 248): “ten: WESTERN EUROPEAN JEWRY, 1940-1944 FRANCE Algerian Jews under Vichy Rule (p. 256) In Algeria ... Cremieux ... Simialr measures ... in Morocco and Tunisia. ... Haven and London: Yale University Press, 2001

I am going to sleep. Thank you Simon, Eadgy?, and Carole.Henia Perlman (talk) 08:38, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 24, 2017)

Footage can be processed in a video editing room.
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Thanks for all your help!

Hi Simon,

As you noticed, I have been doing a lot of reading, and Carole has been very helpful. So, I am ending the mentorship, but I hope it will be okay, if I ask you questions sometimes.

Be well and thank you again!Henia Perlman (talk) 08:03, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Henia, please start conversations at the bottom of talk pages, with the tab "new section" which is located on the top of the page. I am slightly confused by the above message. You you saying that you now feel confident enough to not need a mentor? There are issues with some of your use of sources, not all by any means, but it appears to be concentrated on trying to prove that Vichy colonies (yes I know you would disagree with that description, but that is what they were) were part of Nazi occupied Europe. That is debatable as I have said in previous posts.
  • What I suggest you do now Henia, is to copy and paste the edit proposal onto the article talkpage to see if it gains WP:CONSENSUS to include from other interested editors.
  • Do you want another mentor, if so have you informed Carole? I am happy to assist in any capacity Henia. You have made great progress, my only concern being that you may encounter opposition from other editors in future edits who may not be as colleagial in their style as the editors you have so far encountered. You get many types on here! I think you should continue to have a space to discuss edits before they are committed to article mainspace. Of course, that is what article talkpages are meant for, but I would prefer to see this type of space being utilised for now. Of course, I may just be over-pessimistic but I would like to see you avoiding any stress or unpleasant disputations with editors who do not know you, or your long background in education. Kind regards, Simon Irondome (talk) 14:55, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
I agree, Henia, that a mentor is a very smart idea for you and think that Irondome is much better suited as he is much more knowledgeable about the Holocaust than I am. I am happy, though, to keep adding tips to your talk page and weighing in on conversations.
I am not quite sure that I understand since you regularly say on English and French Wikipedia that you are having trouble navigating the procedures why you are backing off of having a mentor? Is it because you no longer intend to add content to Wikipedia?–CaroleHenson (talk) 15:50, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
Carole I do not specialize in Holocaust studies, so I do have to go off and read up areas. It is such a vast and diverse subject, but I am aware of broad outlines and new approaches. But I am no means a specialist. It is also a difficult subject to be exposed to for long periods (to me anyway). The deepest and darkest themes are it's outriders, such as the Problem of evil, and being a non atheist, Theodicy. I am a generalist in 20th Century history, but obviously the Holocaust was, with the wars, the defining event of that period. This is not in anyway to downplay the other genocides and horrors of the period, but the events leading to the Shoah was the worst combination, means, opportunity, and a grotesque deviancy of European thought which developed in the 19th century, that of racial, as opposed to religious Antisemitism providing part of the motive. A perfect storm of circumstances. Anyways..Regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 16:14, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
Henia I have just noticed the thread on the Holocaust talkpage [[57]] Uniqueness and Wansee, which gives me concerns. You still have a great deal of ground to cover in getting the house style and methodology of contributing to WP right, so I am concerned that you without a mentor, any mentor, is premature. I would ask you to closely read and re-read Ealdgyth and Carole's final comments there. Kind regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 16:29, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Henia is taking a break and not ignoring you

Hi Simon, Ealdgyth, Carol, and other editors,

I am taking a break from wiki, and therefore not reading more messages. I am writing draft of responses to the Holocaust after 1939 (Evian, Kindertransport…), before the war, and after the war (Varian Fry …). I am not ignoring you, but Wiki says that it’s good to take a break.

Simon, I thank you from all my heart for your patient mentorship. I decided to end it yesterday, because you, Carol, Ealdgyth, and others who voluntarily have been formatting my sources, or commented on the pertinence of my editing have helped a lot, but I feel that, because of my old brain, technology will remain a challenge. I also know from my personal experience that I learn better by doing and improving with guidance and discussion from many different editors.

I thank you in advance for your patience, ollaboration, and letting me edit, without “biting” me. Wiki states that newcomers who are experts on the subject are a positive addition in editing.

In good faith, I started to edit in a thoughtful way, using source, and attentively reading your guidelines that I printed, and wiki material. I explained the editing in the summary and the Talk of the article.

I didn’t delete “North Africa” “as a matter of principle,” but after I had checked Longerich, where it does not appear. I also found out that Kershaw wrote almost the same sentence, like the one in the article, with the incorrect inclusion of “North Africa” in the 11 millions, in p. 35 of Niewyk’s book, The Holocaust. I remembered that, because I thought that Kershaw maybe confused. I also copied from Yad Vashem and didn’t put quotations marks. I noticed that sometimes, not in the case of the long paragraphs of Yad Vashem, after 20 yrs of Holocaust study, I know sentences of scholars, by heart!

I read in Wiki: After one changes a page, others who read it can choose whether or not to further edit. When editors do not reach agreement by editing, discussion on the associated talk pages continues the process toward consensus.

I welcome your understanding of my shortcomings, your good faith collaboration, and your objections. I will listen to all of them attentively, “try to understand why, respond politely and assume good faith.”

I sincerely apologize for saying that the article is not neutral and acknowledge the hard work of other editors; I should have explained that it was what my 1000s and members of the public, who came to my Holocaust lectures, told me. That’s why, upon my retirement, I decided to be involved and collaborate in improving it.

I will “take the time and effort to explain why I think my suggestion(s) might be preferable, and “resolve disputes calmly, through civil discussion and consensus-building on relevant discussion pages. Please remember that we are all here for more or less the same reason . … Wikipedia is not about winning

1. “If someone disagrees with {me}, I will make sure {I} try to understand why! Listen to the others, and take the time and effort to explain why {I} think {my} suggestion(s) might be preferable.

2. assume good faith for as long as possible.

3. Take it slow (that’s why I didn’t answer immediately to your messages, and went zumba or did other things, as suggested by Wiki). There is no time limit for a discussion.

4. It is easy to misjudge other editors' moods and intentions, especially when disagreements or discussions are heated. {I will} Make {my} proposals and responses clear; listen carefully to opposing arguments and/or criticism, and be prepared to prove that {I am} listening actively - concentrate, understand, respond and then remember what is being said. … Because everyone has different memories, the speaker and the listener may attach different meanings to the same statement.

Ambushing occurs when one listens to someone else's argument for its weaknesses and ignore its strengths. if one finds that the other party understands, an atmosphere of cooperation can be created. Listeners need only restate, in their own language, their impression of the expression of the sender. ... Still, learning to do Active Listening well is a rather difficult task (I have told you that I am slow and thank you for your patience)

5. Assume the best about people whenever possible – this includes assuming that others are doing likewise.

6. I sincerely apologize, in good faith.

8. I will take a break, and read your messages later – I am not ignoring you. Go get some fresh air, and go more to the gym.

Remember that Wikipedia is a hobby … Keep a good community spirit up and make good edits as a community.

I am not always right, and I know that I don’t know.

… Wikipedia is not about winning ” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution 

Thank you.

Regards.Henia Perlman (talk) 03:12, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Dear Henia Perlman I am sure I speak for your other colleagues who have been assisting you as well as myself, to thank you for your very wise post. You obviously are deeply self aware and I believe to be obviously WP:HERE to help build WP. You must not feel that you have been in any sense driven away, quite the reverse. We urgently need more female editors, and certainly editors who are of your age. Just in your own time re-read and digest the points that have been I hope kindly made to you. Taking a WP:WIKIBREAK is widespread practice, and helps colleagues refresh and refocus, and get a wider perspective. I believe your decision for a temporary break shows great foresight. You will always be welcome to comment here on my talkpage and I expect hopefully you will return soon. Your brain is not old. I have encountered 18 year old's with a far less flexible mindset than you have, so it is a question of attitude. You have a good future here when you return. Just read some other articles, read the talkpages, and brush up more on the WP "house style". You have absolutely nothing to apologise for. I hope to 'speak' to you again very soon. Kind regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 03:30, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Following your advices

Dear Simon,

Thank you for your kind and compassionate posting. Today, I followed your advices, and I am reading other articles, and WP.

I need your help:

1. I edited one or two articles, small edits, but I thought I knew how to do an internal link - it's so funny: I was successful doing it for 2 words but failed with others. Can you please tell me why? I used template of Wiki. Here the link for the map: France en 1942


2. I would like to put an excellent and correct French map in an article. I was not successful. Here the website of the map: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9gime_de_Vichy

Thank you again for your kind understanding. I really care about Holocaust education.

Looking forward to hear from you. Kind and warm regards.

Have a wonderful week-end!Henia Perlman (talk) 01:46, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

My dear Henia, I am very sorry for the late response. I am spending a few days with my fiance, we have not seen each other for nearly a month, so I have not been on line for about 48 hours. I very much appreacite your post. I understand that you wish to use a map which is already on an article On WP. When we need to do this, certain copyright limitations may come into play. It is my understanding that material already existant on WP must be attributed to the correct source and explained in edit summaries specifically that you have used a pre-existant source. This is called attribution. I think the deployment of the material would be useful, but I am just concerned about the very complex copyright rules which exist on WP. It is terrible that I sound negative sometimes, but it is not meant that way believe me. I just want you Henia to be aware of the complexities of many of the WP rules demand we follow, Copyright and WP:BLP are two of the most strictly controole areas. I am pinging our great expert on copyright rules, Diannaa, for her advice on usage of this material. It seems that you are copying material over from the French WP. Dianna, please could you give your opinion on how we can proceed with this? kind regards, Henia. Simon. Irondome (talk) 03:09, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 25, 2017)

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Books and Bytes - Issue 22

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You know why this message in on your page

Finally, another humorous editor...you. I'll try to find an appropriate barnstar.

Best Regards,
Barbara (WVS) ✐ ✉ 16:09, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
Hiya Barbara (WVS) ✐ ✉ appreciate the sentiment! I like the satirical humour of that great Wikipedian, thinker, Stateswoman and humanitarian Catherine de Burgh, who was, as we all know, most foully murdered by Arbcom, but through her farsighted patronage of new technologies, cheated death itself. I occasionally add to the powerful and moving testament of her remarkable life in my own modest way. There was a thread about a year back on the worst-written articles on WP, so bad they are almost art. A bit like the poetry of William McGonagall. I will try and find the link, it will give you a laugh. The squirrel article is genius, a true example of BOLD! See you around. Simon. Irondome (talk) 20:31, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 26, 2017)

A deadpan emoji.
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FYI

Hello Irondome. I thought you should be aware of this thread User talk:HJ_Mitchell#Henia Perlman is asking for an official full investigation as you are one of the editors mentioned in it. I know how frustrating this can be so I will add my thanks for your efforts here at WikiP over the years. I also know that my post may be an annoyance so please feel free to remove it. Best regards. MarnetteD|Talk 19:07, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi MarnetteD, no annoyance at all. I saw the post on Harry's's page just after it went up and it took me a couple of readings to grasp what she was actually saying. I just find it saddening and depressing. I appreciate the head's up. As recently as yesterday I supported CaroleHenson's idea for Henia to work on stubs. It is sad that this person seems to turn on those who were attempting to assist. The problem there is that it drain's everyone's collective goodwill for future new users, who may be more deserving of help. Therefore, taken as a whole WP will be a touch less welcoming collectively to those newcomers who are WP:HERE and need help. Sad. Simon. Irondome (talk) 19:31, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
I appreciate the heads-up, MarnetteD, and I too find this a sad state of affairs.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:39, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Pint

One for you. Can be replaced with coffee or the beverage of your choice.

Kafka Liz (talk) 19:28, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Ahh cheers Liz I do like a drop of porter, there's a bit of a porter revival in London, some good microbreweries are brewing it again. 7% and full of flavour!

My round next, and one for Paul obviously. Seen you both around and you do damn good work. Good to meet yer both! Simon Irondome (talk) 20:02, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Well, come to our next meet-up. Might be a long while (at least six months or so) from now, but you are welcome. And I can always do with good advice on beer. Kafka Liz (talk) 20:22, 24 June 2017 (UTC) (S - can't post real name here)
The anticipation is half the fun. It would be a great pleasure to meet you both. I do greatly admire your work. You're on basically! Simon Irondome (talk) 20:28, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello. --Paul (talk) 18:56, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello Paul. You new here then? Irondome (talk) 18:59, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
No, you're Paul~enwiki and you have had a bugger of a time trying to change your name on 'ere. You're no newbie, sorry for that. Good to hear from you mate. Irondome (talk) 20:11, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
I don't understand anymore your english, sorry. --Paul (talk) 08:14, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 27, 2017)

Ultraviolet photography is one of the many visual technologies. This image of the rings of Saturn is an example of the application of ultraviolet photography in astronomy.
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXV, July 2017

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Chickens at a market in Mazatlan, Sinaloa, Mexico
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The room of the editor-in-chief for the Seattle Daily Times in 1900
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Checking in

I came here to ask if you noticed I'm 20, but I read you're in a lot of stress right now. Feel free to email me about it, I've got some of my own drama (what to do with my life) going on, and I assure you I am a bit more mature (by at least one definition of the word) than when we last met. Wishing you happiness in all that you do, -G. --Monochrome_Monitor 00:18, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi G and happy birthday to you! I hope the day was fun. I hope your pressures ease soon I really do. If you want to drop me a mail some time that would be cool :) Simon Irondome (talk) 22:28, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 30, 2017)

Illustration of Dijkstra's algorithm search, a search algorithm for finding path from a start node (lower left, red) to a goal node (upper right, green) in a robot motion planning problem.
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RfA

Thanks for supporting my run for administrator. I am honored and grateful. ) Cullen328 Let's discuss it 03:31, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
That's a nice touch Cullen328 and it is greatly appreciated. I have left my rambling ruminations on your TP. Kind regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 14:11, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

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The Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on 9 December 1948. Pictured is an image denoting global participation in the Genocide Convention in 2008.
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Films based upon the theme of blackmail have been made, such as the 1929 film Blackmail.
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An automobile engine is an example of an intermediate good, and is used in the production of the final good, the assembled automobile.
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East Germany erected the Berlin Wall to prevent emigration westward.
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Books and Bytes - Issue 23

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This week's article for improvement (week 35, 2017)

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This week's article for improvement (week 36, 2017)

One 24-ounce energy drink has 330 calories, more than a fast-food cheeseburger, and the equivalent of 18 single-serving packets of sugar.
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXVII, September 2017

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This week's article for improvement (week 37, 2017)

A small pond hockey field
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Barbarossa

Neither Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union had signed any Geneva or Hague Conventions. (2A00:23C4:6384:FE00:2C0F:AF86:B549:6FE4 (talk) 22:25, 14 September 2017 (UTC))

Take it to the appropriate article talk page and bring some WP:RS with you. However, your attempts at inserting some strange Moral equivalence into the article, (presumably to whitewash Nazi war crimes) will not succeed I suspect. Irondome (talk) 22:32, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 38, 2017)

A spelling error on a road sign
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Thanks!

Hi Irondome, thank you for your comments at my RfA. Your support is much appreciated! ansh666 22:14, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Hi Ansh666 and thanks for the thoughtful note. I sincerely hope your adminship is as stress-free as possible :) Stick to what you are most confident at doing for now, and branch out gradually to other areas. Hugely experienced admins are there to support you. Try a bit more content creation when you want to. You will find it an escape from the duties of zer mop. Remember you are an editor first and an admin second. Be happy! Good luck mate, Simon. aka Irondome (talk) 16:45, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 39, 2017)

George Lazenby at the Supanova Pop Culture Expo in 2014
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This week's article for improvement (week 39, 2017)

George Lazenby at the Supanova Pop Culture Expo in 2014
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A bottom line

I don't want to argue over it - I made a point of stopping that comment (as did other editors) simply because it generates drama. Maybe the reverting of the comment generated drama, maybe I should have just kept out of it and let it stand - whatever. I don't want drama, nor does TRM - personally, I disagree with the full protection, and if it didn't happen then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Let's just hope it gets lifted then whoever can post whatever there :-) -- There'sNoTime (to explain) 20:07, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Well I appreciate you coming over There'sNoTime. I think we should all get on with some productive work, and I certainly have no bad feelings towards you. I just have a gut feeling this is a severe over-reaction by GW and certainly not this colleagues' finest hour. Ritchie333's proposed solution of a block of hours, not weeks, would seem to have been the way forward. T/P access revocation I find bizarre frankly in this case. Regards, Irondome (talk) 20:15, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Have you seen this?

See here. I'm not sure whether to delete it as a forum-type post, or explain that ancient Israel and modern Israel use different "constitutions". Perhaps some Orthodox Jewish groups still follow this, so maybe the IDF accommodates that? I honestly don't know. - BilCat (talk) 21:40, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

Hi BilCat.The idea of the Army revising the bible is either meant honestly or is being sarcastic. Certainly the Army Rabbinate have bent over backwards to encourage recruitment among the ultra-Orthodox, with some success, but I don't know about this. I just finished Yom Kippur last evening, and I stuck to the 'rules' but it did not stop the Army mobilising in 1973 within hours, and I believe the chief Rabbi of the I.D.F that afternoon immediately annulled the burden of observation, on the grounds that all the laws can be overridden if life is at stake. The I.D.F may be attempting to accommodate the Orthodox in this direction, but it certainly would not allow it to interfere with combat availability, and there are maybe - + 1,000 Orthodox serving in various active formations. I would say leave till tomorrow. Maybe other posts will clarify, from colleagues. Simon Irondome (talk) 22:06, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. I wasn't sure if it was honest or sarcastic either. - BilCat (talk) 22:09, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 40, 2017)

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Need advice and help on edit dispute

Our article is called Davidian Seventh-day Adventist. I am one of the original authors. We've had tens of thousands of views over the years and just recently we've had to deal with new edits over and over again. We don't mind helpful and useful edits but a couple particular people are continually reverting a particular integral paragraph. Any help? Presenttruth777 (talk) 15:41, 3 October 2017 (UTC) Presenttruth777

Hi, give me an hour or so. Just researching the Danish public health budget at the mo..(don't ask) Irondome (talk) 15:48, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Hi there. I would respectfully advise you to follow this advice. It is perhaps sternly worded but it says it all. No one person or group 'owns' an article, especially if they are closely affiliated with the subject. Your group may be here just to guard and protect 'your preferred' version of the article. This breaks WP:OWN and WP:SPA. These are firm WP rules and must be adhered to. Beyond My Ken and Legacypac are indeed greatly experienced editors here, with a comprehensive understanding of how WP works. I would strongly advise you to work with them in improving the article, even at this late stage. Regards, Irondome (talk) 17:16, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Danish health system...? Well, a close mate of mine who hailed from there did mention several decades ago that a female entertainer who did certain things with animals of the porcine variety on stage had problems with the local health and legal authorities. Her libertine ways might, they argued, put the porker's heath at risk, venereally speaking . . . Nishidani (talk) 19:28, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Well Nick, it would seem that the Danish health and safety bods have their priorities right..I hope the porker was retired to a home for sexually abused animal survivors (I am curiously ambiguous about that newish buzz word) of the entertainments industry. The worse scenario was that that brave little porcine trouper ended up contributing to a consignment of Danepak. Good to hear from you mate, that's a crack(l)ing little anecdote indeed! Si. Irondome (talk) 19:45, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Recycling a pun I made even earlier as a boy, when I heard an aunt chatting about her neighbour who had, she said, a terrible facial oedema called 'pig's face disease'. I muttered,'well, the poor dear could try applying some oinkment on her skin, that might work.' That, if it exists outside my imagination, would soothe a porker's sores.Nishidani (talk) 20:00, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Ouch! Irondome (talk) 20:38, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXXVIII, October 2017

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This week's article for improvement (week 41, 2017)

Wikipedia is sometimes criticized for being used as a source of circular reporting.
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This week's article for improvement (week 42, 2017)

A fire sprinkler with red liquid alcohol in the capsule
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Books and Bytes - Issue 24

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This week's article for improvement (week 43, 2017)

A 1912 illustration of Robin Hood and Little John
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This week's article for improvement (week 44, 2017)

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This week's article for improvement (week 45, 2017)

"Pay no more than Ceiling Prices", WWII U.S. poster
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The Bugle: Issue CXXXIX, November 2017

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Felix Z. Longoria Jr.

"Freshman" Senator is the term used for the least senior of the two senators from any state. It has nothing to do with LBJ's experience, just his position as the junior of the two state senators. C. W. Gilmore (talk) 01:39, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Well I appreciate your information, C. W. Gilmore, we learn something new everyday, do we not? Irondome (talk) 02:38, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks C. W. Gilmore (talk) 03:25, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
I have restored your version, and linked Freshman to clarify to non U.S. readers the political significance of the term in U.S. political parlance. I hope this will be of interest to readers. I was shocked by the article frankly, as I did not realise that American Mexicans had been subjected to such racism. I have put the article on my WL. Irondome (talk) 05:36, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
It happened in my mother's home town, so sadly I'm not, but today it is getting so much better. My family was close to the Longoria family with my grandfather getting a mention in the book. Sadly though this still need improvement; take a look at the last section in the TP. C. W. Gilmore (talk) 05:47, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
I certainly will C. W. Gilmore. It has aroused my interest and shall help in attempting to improve the article. I will go through all available sources and try to find new insights from the most recent research. Regards, Irondome (talk) 05:53, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

A Dobos torte for you!

7&6=thirteen (☎) has given you a Dobos torte to enjoy! Seven layers of fun because you deserve it.


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02:15, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks ☎! Serious pastry, much appreciated! I will spread the lurve! Simon Irondome (talk) 03:11, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
I 'baked' this up myself. And it is lo-cal. Not. {:>{)> 7&6=thirteen (☎) 03:15, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
High cal is to be preferred. It's getting cold out there. And some women prefer the more umm 'mature' man. Beer helps too {:>{)> Irondome (talk) 05:33, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 46, 2017)

An optical illusion. Square A is exactly the same shade of grey as Square B. (See Checker shadow illusion.)
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This week's article for improvement (week 47, 2017)

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See very little point

in your comment. How would you see such sentence: "As an anti-Comminist/democrat/monarchist, Winston Churchill declared war on Germany on 3 September 1939.." leaders do not start war due to the style of leadership, or a political structure′s idiosyncrasies. I amnot debating whether or not he was a dictator, I am mainly saying that the sentence looks idiotic. Apart from the fact, of course, that it is anti-historic to say that he initiated a WW: he invaded Poland -- it was a bilateral conflict.Axxxion (talk) 22:14, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Let us just say I strongly disagree with all the points you make. However, this is not the place for such a discussion. If you wish to see what others think, post the above on AH's article talk page to see if your thoughts get any traction. Regards, Irondome (talk) 22:26, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
Well, thank you for your reply. In fact, I do not have any thoughts on the matter: I am just pointing to an obvious bias that is entrenched (shall I say institutionalised) in WP, especially the English one, — against certain personalities (the lede of Joseph Stalin is even worse on this count). Churchill of course did not declare war, I hope you got me right: I was just constructing a similarly absurd verbal structure. Britain did, followed by its dominions, which actually did start the world war. It is just that hatred/rejection of inconvenient facts by humans never fails to fascinate me. Forgive my bothering you.Axxxion (talk) 23:30, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
You are not 'bothering' me Axxxion, I like to experience other viewpoints. Simon. Irondome (talk) 23:37, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 48, 2017)

A student performing schoolwork
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German occupied Europe Suggestion without undue weight

Here it is:

German–occupied Europe or Nazi Europe refers to the sovereign countries of Europe, INCLUDING FRENCH NORTH AFRICA (ref. 1) which were occupied by the military forces of Nazi Germany at various times between 1939 and 1945 and administered by the Nazi regime.(ref. 2)

Ref. 1: Shoah - Block 27 http://auschwitz.org/en/visiting/national-exhibitions/shoah-block-27 Map of Nazi-occupied Europe (inclusive of French North Africa in map of Europe and in narrative) http://culture.pl/en/event/new-permanent-exhibition-at-auschwitz-birkenau https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/media-room/news-archive/opening-new-permanent-exhibition-%E2%80%9Cshoah%E2%80%9D-auschwitz-birkenau “… the new exhibition, which is divided into several galleries. They are devoted to such things as Jewish life before the war, the ideology of the Nazis and the extermination of Jews within the Nazi-occupied Europe.” http://auschwitz.org/en/visiting/national-exhibitions/shoah-block-27 http://auschwitz.org/en/museum/news/shoah-new-exhibition-in-block-27-light-of-remembrance-for-avner-shalev-,1016.html “the story of the Jews that were persecuted and murdered, here and across the European continent”

“In November 1942, … French North Africa … this extension of Europe ...” Kaspi, André Les Juifs pendant l'occupation. Seuil, Paris: Éditions du Seuil 1991; p. 175. * German Map of Europe of the German general staff dated 20, 1942; in p. 3 of article written by Dr. Norbert Kampe, historian and then Director of the Wannsee House, and published in SHALOM/VOL. XLI/PRINTEMPS 2004/PESSAH 5764 http://www.shalom-magazine.com/pdfs/41/Fr/KAMPE%20FR_41.pdf German map of Europe http://www.diercke.de/kartenansicht.xtp?artId=978-3-14-100770-1&seite=62&id=15966&kartennr=1# Yad Vashem writes: “Under the French-German cease-fire agreement, North Africa was considered part of unoccupied Vichy France” http://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%205726.pdf


Ref. 2: Encyclopædia Britannica, German occupied Europe. World War II. Retrieved 1 September 2015 from the Internet Archive.

I just now read messages by Carole and Eadgylt (I think), and I am truly sorry. But I am trying hard. I also thought to share with you my research, as I am planning to edit more:

France, mentioned in the article, was and is a transcontinental country, which, during WWII included mainland France or the Metropole, and France d’outre-mer (overseas) which included the 91, 92, 93, 94 departments in French Algeria, an integral part of the French republic, and the two French protectorate of Morocco and Tunisia; according to Kaspi there were 700,000 Jews living there (300,000 in mainland France and 400,000 in French North Africa). Kaspi, André Les Juifs pendant l'occupation. Seuil, Paris: Éditions du Seuil 1991; p. 177

In his book Himmler A Life, Longerich writes that in December 1942, Himmler discussed with Hitler the destruction of 600-700.000 Jews of France: “… there are currently at least 1.5 million deadly enemies of the Axis living … in the previously part of France, namely 600,000-700,000 Jews… ‘The Fuhrer gave orders that the Jews and other enemies in France should be arrested and deported. This should take place, however, only once he has spoken with Laval about it. It is a matter of 6-700.000 Jews.’" in ch. 21. The Murder of the European Jews, p. 648. Longerich tells about the fate of the Jews in French North Africa as part of the Holocaust in France, in his “brief survey of the fate of the Jews in the countries occupied by and allied with Germany” and the “systematic murder of the Jews of Europe” (Longerich, Peter (2010). Holocaust: The Nazi Persecution and Murder of the Jews. Oxford; New York: Oxford University Press; p. 435, and p. 492). “Included in the 700,000 Jews for unoccupied France are those of the North African colonies.” p. 307. “… the Jews of French North Africa, who had already been included among the victims of the coming ‘Final Solution’ envisaged at the Wannsee Conference.” p. 391

A successor to the Madagascar project In his note for Himmler Eichmann wrote that this project would encompass ‘a total of some 5.8 million Jews’, … four million …Madagascar project. Planning had evidently been extended in the meantime to include German allies and satellites in Estern Europe and the Jews in the French colonies. p. 173.

Madagascar project … Rademacher’s August memo … he now estimated the number of Jews to be sent to Madagascar as 6.5 million, an indication that the Jews from south-east Europe as well as those from the French colonies in North Africa were to be included. p. 510.

Yehuda Bauer, Academic Advisor to YV, tells about the fate of the Jews in French North Africa in his section on the Jews in Europe in his book A History of the Holocaust, (1982), (p. 248): “ten: WESTERN EUROPEAN JEWRY, 1940-1944 FRANCE Algerian Jews under Vichy Rule (p. 256) In Algeria ... Cremieux ... Simialr measures ... in Morocco and Tunisia. ... Haven and London: Yale University Press, 2001

I am going to sleep. Thank you Simon, Eadgy?, and Carole.Henia Perlman (talk) 08:38, 11 June 2017 (UTC) Henia Perlman (talk) 08:41, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Henia, I am trying to untangle your proposals. The first wording looks ok, with supporting refs. But you do not need to extensively reference certain self evident short passages. I am unsure where you propose to place the second. Please just concentrate on one edit at a time. It is rather difficult to follow your lines of reasoning if several separate points are being discussed in one post. Simon. Irondome (talk) 18:32, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

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Hello, Irondome. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 49, 2017)

Agriculture in Saudi Arabia: Agricultural fields in the Wadi As-Sirhan Basin, Saudi Arabia. Taken by astronauts on the International Space Station.
Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Agriculture in Saudi Arabia

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Schoolwork • Recipe

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:06, 4 December 2017 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

2017 Military Historian of the Year and Newcomer of the Year nominations and voting

As we approach the end of the year, the Military History project is looking to recognise editors who have made a real difference. Each year we do this by bestowing two awards: the Military Historian of the Year and the Military History Newcomer of the Year. The co-ordinators invite all project members to get involved by nominating any editor they feel merits recognition for their contributions to the project. Nominations for both awards are open between 00:01 on 2 December 2017 and 23:59 on 15 December 2017. After this, a 14-day voting period will follow commencing at 00:01 on 16 December 2017. Nominations and voting will take place on the main project talkpage: here and here. Thank you for your time. For the co-ordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:35, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXL, December 2017

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 11:16, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 50, 2017)

Cover page of the Wikimedia Deutschland 2015 Impact Report
Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Report

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Agriculture in Saudi Arabia • Schoolwork

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:05, 11 December 2017 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

New Page Reviewer Newsletter

Hello Simon Adler, thank you for your efforts reviewing new pages!

Backlog update:

  • The new page backlog is currently at 12713 pages. Please consider reviewing even just a few pages each day! If everyone helps out, it will really put a dent in the backlog.
  • Currently the backlog stretches back to March and some pages in the backlog have passed the 90 day Google index point. Please consider reviewing some of them!

Outreach and Invitations:

  • If you know other editors with a good understanding of Wikipedia policy, invite them to join NPP by dropping the invitation template on their talk page with: {{subst:NPR invite}}. Adding more qualified reviewers will help with keeping the backlog manageable.

New Year New Page Review Drive

  • A backlog drive is planned for the start of the year, beginning on January 1st and running until the end of the month. Unique prizes will be given in tiers for both the total number of reviews made, as well as the longest 'streak' maintained.
  • Note: quality reviewing is extremely important, please do not sacrifice quality for quantity.

General project update:

  • ACTRIAL has resulted in a significant increase in the quality of new submissions, with noticeably fewer CSD, PROD, and BLPPROD candidates in the new page feed. However, the majority of the backlog still dates back to before ACTRIAL started, so consider reviewing articles from the middle or back of the backlog.
  • The NPP Browser can help you quickly find articles with topics that you prefer to review from within the backlog.
  • To keep up with the latest conversation on New Pages Patrol or to ask questions, you can go to Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Reviewers and add it to your watchlist.

If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. — TonyBallioni (talk) 20:27, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 25

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 25, October – November 2017

  • OAWiki & #1Lib1Ref
  • User Group update
  • Global branches update
  • Spotlight: Research libraries and Wikimedia
  • Bytes in brief

Arabic, Korean and French versions of Books & Bytes are now available in meta!

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:57, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Happy Saturnalia!

Happy Saturnalia
Wishing you and yours a Happy Holiday Season, from the horse and bishop person. May the year ahead be productive and troll-free and you not often get distracted by dice-playing. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:56, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 51, 2017)

A mechanic at steam pump in an electric power house, 1920, (from a photo study for the WPA).
Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Mechanic

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Report • Agriculture in Saudi Arabia

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:06, 18 December 2017 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

The Signpost: 18 December 2017

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:27, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

Happy Holidays
Wishing you a happy holiday season! Times flies and 2018 is around the corner. Thank you for your contributions. ~ K.e.coffman (talk) 00:27, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

No fancy template...

Irondrome, but just but to wish you happy holidays and all the best for 2018. It's probably a lot warmer where I am than where you are 😎 Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:43, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

User group for Military Historians

Greetings,

"Military history" is one of the most important subjects when speak of sum of all human knowledge. To support contributors interested in the area over various language Wikipedias, we intend to form a user group. It also provides a platform to share the best practices between military historians, and various military related projects on Wikipedias. An initial discussion was has been done between the coordinators and members of WikiProject Military History on English Wikipedia. Now this discussion has been taken to Meta-Wiki. Contributors intrested in the area of military history are requested to share their feedback and give suggestions at Talk:Discussion to incubate a user group for Wikipedia Military Historians.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:30, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas Simon Adler!!


Hi Simon Adler, I wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year,
Thanks for all your help and contributions on the 'pedia! ,
   –Davey2010 Merry Xmas / Happy New Year 13:39, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Seasons' Greetings

...to you and yours, from the Great White North! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 04:04, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

Happy Holidays
From Stave one of Dickens A Christmas Carol

Old Marley was as dead as a door-nail. Mind! I don’t mean to say that I know, of my own knowledge, what there is particularly dead about a door-nail. I might have been inclined, myself, to regard a coffin-nail as the deadest piece of ironmongery in the trade. But the wisdom of our ancestors is in the simile; and my unhallowed hands shall not disturb it, or the Country’s done for. You will therefore permit me to repeat, emphatically, that Marley was as dead as a door-nail.

So you see even Charles was looking for a reliable source :-) Thank you for your contributions to the 'pedia. ~ MarnetteD|Talk 23:21, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 52, 2017)

A nutrient is a component in foods that an organism uses to survive and grow.
Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Nutrient

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Mechanic • Report

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:05, 25 December 2017 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2018!

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2018!

Hello Irondome, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you a heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2018.
Happy editing,
Chris Troutman (talk) 00:03, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

X-mass

Hope all is well, Simon. [58]. Here is to another year of taking s*^% from x%^&*. Ceoil (talk) 21:23, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

New Years new page backlog drive

Hello Simon Adler, thank you for your efforts reviewing new pages!

Announcing the NPP New Year Backlog Drive!

We have done amazing work so far in December to reduce the New Pages Feed backlog by over 3000 articles! Now is the time to capitalise on our momentum and help eliminate the backlog!

The backlog drive will begin on January 1st and run until January 29th. Prize tiers and other info can be found HERE.

Awards will be given in tiers in two categories:

  • The total number of reviews completed for the month.
  • The minimum weekly total maintained for all four weeks of the backlog drive.

NOTE: It is extremely important that we focus on quality reviewing. Despite our goal of reducing the backlog as much as possible, please do not rush while reviewing.

If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. — TonyBallioni (talk) 20:24, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 1, 2018)

Economic recovery – a "Project funded by The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act" project sign.
Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Economic recovery

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Nutrient • Mechanic

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:06, 1 January 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

Happy New Year, Irondome!

Happy New Year!

Irondome,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
–Davey2010 Merry Xmas / Happy New Year 00:39, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

This week's article for improvement (week 2, 2018)

There are about 260 known living species of monkeys. Pictured is a common squirrel monkey.
Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Monkey

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Economic recovery • Nutrient

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:05, 8 January 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

The Bugle: Issue CXLI, January 2018

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 13:15, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

550 AEW

Placing comments in the edit summary is not a reliable source. In case you missed it WP:PROVEIT specifically states “burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material”, which you failed to do. Further please refrain from trying to belittle your fellow editors, it looks poorly upon yourself – Thanks FOX 52 (talk) 04:13, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

FOX 52, I would have thought you knew enough about the offset deal, which is well sourced, not to challenge this. You are good at aviation matters. Frankly, I was surprised in you not being up to date on this. I have provided a good source which should satisfy you. I was not attempting to belittle you, but I accept you as a fellow "expert" on these matters. I believe our respect for each other on aviation subjects is mutual. Now, let us continue to work together in a comradely way in the future. Your friend, Simon. Irondome (talk) 04:28, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
No worries, I usually start with the original location of the aircraft for "origin", but when it come to modifications it get a bit complex. (I see now your "foolish" comment was more light hearted) - Cheers FOX 52 (talk) 04:37, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 3, 2018)

Culture of Asia – an East Asian cultural region representation
Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Culture of Asia

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Monkey • Economic recovery

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:06, 15 January 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

Go to hell! You motherfuсker.

Fuсk you! You fuсking son of a bitсh! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yiesch (talk • contribs) 14:20, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

It is over Catherine. I know you love me, but you will find another man in time. Irondome (talk) 15:30, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
And the BanHammer cometh in 3..... 2..... --Monochrome_Monitor 16:07, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
Good grief, no: bad grief. Hope all's well as can be, S(igh).Nishidani (talk) 16:17, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
Ha! Good things can come off the wake of a plea for love from a spurned suitor! Firstly I hear from Monochrome Monitor (who I was just about to reply to) and now from you Nish! Two of my best colleagues! Oh well, I have been very remiss in my editing here lately, so I suppose this saves a phone call. I hope you had a bearable season of joy, and all's well with you! And you, MM! Irondome (talk) 16:34, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
Suggest for the occasion, later this evening before hitting the fart sack, a Haydn Quartet. Keep well, S.

Nishidani (talk) 17:24, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

  • That was lovely Nish. I couldn't wait. By coincidence, my better half will be performing in a production of Missa in Angustiis in April. Si. Irondome (talk) 18:06, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
Irondome, havnt read the above, too busy, but have have gathered enough to have blocked your house, street, region, country and watering hole, indef. As I am all powerful you may not appeal this. No need to attempt to respond; am heading to the Congo for several weeks with my beautiful wives. Ceoil (talk) 16:20, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
Oy gevalt! Hiya C! That bad eh? Shite! Irondome (talk) 16:34, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
Its very upsetting to me that you said "Shite". Talk page access revoked. I urge TP stalkers to take a moment of silence now, to reflect on Irondome's naughtiness, and never mention it again. Ceoil (talk) 16:49, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
Chortle! Irondome (talk) 16:59, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
I've been pretty inactive m'self. For the past fortnight I've mainly stuck to the topics of Iran, Unix-like computing, and deviant human sexuality. Oh my! (But seriously, I checka my watchlist and see "Fuck you! You fucking son of a bitch!"— a girl can't resist.)--Monochrome_Monitor 17:10, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
I think it very touching how, when chopping your head off, they wanted to be sure that your neck was clean so that you didn't get an infection. --Nat Gertler (talk) 17:43, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
Indeed Nat. It's the little things sometimes..Irondome (talk) 17:55, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
Well it beats having to go down to the barbers for a wash and brush up? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:02, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
We can talk then of a 'close shave'.Nishidani (talk) 18:13, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
I filmed the moment for historical purposes Irondome (talk) 18:22, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
They knew how to do this kind of thing in the good old days. Since 1970, however, vide Masakatsu Morita kaishaku efficiency has suffered deeply.Nishidani (talk) 19:33, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
  • I do appreciate equal opportunities decapitators, Nish!
Duke de Pommefrite: "Well, I wish you'd hurry up... I'm getting a shocking pain in the neck down here."
Citizen Camembert: "I assure you, my dear Duke, that once we get this thing working properly you'll be the first to know about it!"
Martinevans123 (talk) 20:28, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
  • A belated happy new year Martin! The above is a mere promise :) Fantasy. They will never bloody fix that! Irondome (talk) 21:24, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
Holy shissnikey and I thought we got in to it...you're all aces Simon - FOX 52 (talk) 05:37, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 16 January 2018

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:27, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 4, 2018)

Scarab bearing the name of the Hyksos King Apepi
Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Hyksos

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Culture of Asia • Monkey

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:06, 22 January 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

This week's article for improvement (week 5, 2018)

"Welcome to Virginia" sign along northbound Interstate 81 entering Washington County, Virginia from Bristol, Tennessee
Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Interstate 81

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Hyksos • Culture of Asia

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:06, 29 January 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

Books and Bytes - Issue 26

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 26, December – January 2018

  • #1Lib1Ref
  • User Group update
  • Global branches update
  • Spotlight: What can we glean from OCLC’s experience with library staff learning Wikipedia?
  • Bytes in brief

Arabic and French versions of Books & Bytes are now available in meta!
Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:36, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 6, 2018)

A selection of internal organs in human anatomy
Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Organ (anatomy)

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Interstate 81 • Hyksos

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:06, 5 February 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

The Signpost: 5 February 2018

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:12, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer Newsletter

Hello Simon Adler, thank you for your efforts in reviewing new pages!
The NPP backlog at the end of the drive with the number of unreviewed articles by creation date. Red is older than 90 days, orange is between 90 and 30 days old, and green is younger than 30 days.

Backlog update:

  • The new page backlog is currently at 3819 unreviewed articles, with a further 6660 unreviewed redirects.
  • We are very close to eliminating the backlog completely; please help by reviewing a few extra articles each day!

New Year Backlog Drive results:

  • We made massive progress during the recent four weeks of the NPP Backlog Drive, during which the backlog reduced by nearly six thousand articles and the length of the backlog by almost 3 months!

General project update:

  • ACTRIAL will end it's initial phase on the 14th of March. Our goal is to reduce the backlog significantly below the 90 day index point by the 14th of March. Please consider helping with this goal by reviewing a few additional pages a day.
  • Reviewing redirects is an important and necessary part of New Page Patrol. Please read the guideline on appropriate redirects for advice on reviewing redirects. Inappropriate redirects can be re-targeted or nominated for deletion at RfD.

If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. 20:32, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXLII, February 2018

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 07:16, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 7, 2018)

Shredded beef is common in South American cuisine and in Latin American cuisine, and is served with a variety of foods.
Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

South American cuisine

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Organ (anatomy) • Interstate 81

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:06, 12 February 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

This week's article for improvement (week 8, 2018)

A SWOT analysis, with its four elements in a 2×2 matrix
Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

SWOT analysis

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: South American cuisine • Organ (anatomy)

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:06, 19 February 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

The Signpost: 20 February 2018

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:11, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 9, 2018)

Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Green bean

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: SWOT analysis • South American cuisine

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:06, 26 February 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

This week's article for improvement (week 10, 2018)

Medieval world religions
Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

History of religions

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Green bean • SWOT analysis

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:05, 5 March 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

This week's article for improvement (week 11, 2018)

Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Ted Gärdestad

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: History of religions • Green bean

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:06, 12 March 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

The Bugle: Issue CXLIII, March 2018

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 10:36, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 12, 2018)

A composite satellite image of the contiguous United States and surrounding areas
Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Environment of the United States

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Ted Gärdestad • History of religions

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:06, 19 March 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

This week's article for improvement (week 13, 2018)

The Grand Bazaar, held in Istanbul, is one of the oldest existing examples of a bazaar.
Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Bazaar

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Environment of the United States • Ted Gärdestad

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:06, 26 March 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

April 2018 Milhist Backlog Drive

G'day all, please be advised that throughout April 2018 the Military history Wikiproject is running its annual backlog elimination drive. This will focus on several key areas:

  • tagging and assessing articles that fall within the project's scope
  • adding or improving listed resources on Milhist's task force pages
  • updating the open tasks template on Milhist's task force pages
  • creating articles that are listed as "requested" on the project's various lists of missing articles.

As with past Milhist drives, there are points awarded for working on articles in the targeted areas, with barnstars being awarded at the end for different levels of achievement.

The drive is open to all Wikipedians, not just members of the Military history project, although only work on articles that fall (broadly) within the scope of military history will be considered eligible. This year, the Military history project would like to extend a specific welcome to members of Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red, and we would like to encourage all participants to consider working on helping to improve our coverage of women in the military. This is not the sole focus of the edit-a-thon, though, and there are aspects that hopefully will appeal to pretty much everyone.

The drive starts at 00:01 UTC on 1 April and runs until 23:59 UTC on 30 April 2018. Those interested in participating can sign up here.

For the Milhist co-ordinators, AustralianRupert and MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:53, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Signpost issue 4 – 29 March 2018

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:49, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

New Page Review Newsletter No.10

Hello Simon Adler, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!
Notability
General notability guideline
Subject-specific guidelines
See also

ACTRIAL:

  • ACTRIAL's six month experiment restricting new page creation to (auto)confirmed users ended on 14 March. As expected, a greatly increased number of unsuitable articles and candidates for deletion are showing up in the feed again, and the backlog has since increased already by ~30%. Please consider reviewing a few extra articles each day.

Paid editing

  • Now that ACTRIAL is inoperative pending discussion, please be sure to look for tell-tale signs of undisclosed paid editing. Contact the creator if appropriate, and submit the issue to WP:COIN if necessary.

Subject-specific notability guidelines

Nominate competent users for Autopatrolled

  • While patrolling articles, if you find an editor that is particularly competent at creating quality new articles, and that user has created more than 25 articles (rather than stubs), consider nominating them for the 'Autopatrolled' user right HERE.

News

  • The next issue Wikipedia's newspaper The Signpost has now been published after a long delay. There are some articles in it, including ACTRIAL wrap-up that will be of special interest to New Page Reviewers. Don't hesitate to contribute to the comments sections. The Signpost is one of the best ways to stay up date with news and new developments - please consider subscribing to it. All editors of Wikipedia and associated projects are welcome to submit articles on any topic for consideration by the The Signpost's editorial team for the next issue.
To opt-out of future mailings, go here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:06, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 14, 2018)

Camp Ciara is a military base and home to the Irish battalion in the UN Mission in Chad and the Central African Republic, MINURCAT.
Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Military base

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Bazaar • Environment of the United States

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:06, 2 April 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

The Bugle: Issue CXLIIV, April 2018

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 09:55, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 15, 2018)

Natural sponges for sale at a market in Crete
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Sponge (material)

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This week's article for improvement (week 16, 2018)

Spanish transition to democracy – People waiting to vote in the 1977 general election in Toledo, Spain. The 1977 general election was the first free election since February 1936.
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Books & Bytes - Issue 27

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Issue 27, February – March 2018

  • #1Lib1Ref
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    • Wiki Indaba Wikipedia + Library Discussions
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This week's article for improvement (week 17, 2018)

The Wikipedia Fried potatoes article is presently a Disambiguation page that has been identified as qualifying for a standalone article.
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The Signpost: 26 April 2018

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This week's article for improvement (week 18, 2018)

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Paul Anka

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This week's article for improvement (week 19, 2018)

The entrance of Kerobokan Prison
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The Bugle: Issue CXLIV, May 2018

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A view of the Sargasso art installation at the BCE Place for Luminato arts festival in 2011
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This week's article for improvement (week 21, 2018)

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The Signpost: 24 May 2018

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NPR Newsletter No.11 25 May 2018

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Notability
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ACTRIAL:

  • WP:ACREQ has been implemented. The flow at the feed has dropped back to the levels during the trial. However, the backlog is on the rise again so please consider reviewing a few extra articles each day; a backlog approaching 5,000 is still far too high. An effort is also needed to ensure that older unsuitable older pages at the back of the queue do not get automatically indexed for Google.

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This week's article for improvement (week 22, 2018)

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Henri Nestlé

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This week's article for improvement (week 23, 2018)

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Richard Rohr

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This week's article for improvement (week 24, 2018)

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The Bugle: Issue CXLVI, June 2018

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NPP Backlog Elimination Drive

Hello Simon Adler, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

We can see the light at the end of the tunnel: there are currently 2900 unreviewed articles, and 4000 unreviewed redirects.

Announcing the Backlog Elimination Drive!

  • As a final push, we have decided to run a backlog elimination drive from the 20th to the 30th of June.
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Civil ceremony

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Books & Bytes – Issue 28

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 28, April – May 2018

  • #1Bib1Ref
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This week's article for improvement (week 26, 2018)

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Survival

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The Signpost: 29 June 2018

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This week's article for improvement (week 27, 2018)

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Popular culture

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Yes I am still here. A what the feck has been going on in WP world competition announced!

if anyone still watches this tumbleweed page. Sorted a major issue out in r/l. Milhist would term it a strategic victory. I call it bloody justice. So I shall be active again. Greetings to old page stalkers! I have no idea what is going on in terms of WP politics lately. Anyone who can sum up developments in the last 6 months in an intelligent and amusing way in under 300 words wins a prize, not exceeding the value of £15. Irondome (talk) 00:06, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
Um, er, well. . .Fuck, who knows? No one. It's the same ramshackled carbuncled, bombed out zone of erratic vitality it always was, with another half million cards stacked on the rafters, reaching out (retching out) like a paper Babel. I was reminded of it lately reading Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow. Now, how many beers are you shouting me on the strength of that £15 smackeroos prize? (It's disgraceful no one has posted here of late, and since I'm a bloody disgrace, I thought it about time I chipped in, even if I was enticed by my sponger's thirst) Nishidani (talk) 20:04, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
I am back from hiatus. Good to see you too. Please tell me more about the strategic victory, or u can mail me :) --DBigXray 20:11, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
Well Nick, it appears to be a somewhat redundant (semi) humourous request for info now, as I have been plumbing the depths of the boards. Its the usual. However I find the argumentation of two rather talented editors and their supporters to be rather sad in the truest sense. It is obviously splashover from the rather tragic minor crisis in Israeli-Polish relations, or more accurately, Jewish-Polish relations. That two peoples who have lived together for over a thousand years, have extensively cross-fertilized each others' cultures in areas as diverse as cuisine and the arts..it has the air of a long suppressed family grievance, and now there is shouting. Perhaps it had to be though. A monumental clearing of the air. DBigXray! You were the first editor to come to my aid when I was on about 3 edits, and your early encouragement I still remember really warmly. I hope you are ok mate! My big victory? I got my sick pay backdated. Tawdry I know. I didn't edit for about 6 months, and not being one of the most high profile editors (chortle) I really didn't expect many lolcatz to be piling up on my T/P. Anyway, thanks for dropping by chaps. Si Irondome (talk) 21:14, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Cheers mate and welcome back. I wish we could do so in person. Wanted to let you know that I was lucky to visit Israel and Bethlehem couple of years back, hope will be able to do it again some time in future. DBigXray 21:28, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
That's very kind of you DBX It's that time of the night. If you are ever in London, I will meet you in Golders Green. At least I can get there by bus! Cheers mate Irondome (talk) 21:45, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Welcome back...

Good to see you back! Any new interesting projects? --K.e.coffman (talk) 02:00, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

That's very kind of you K.e!. An interesting fella who has been somewhat ignored [[59]] and a sandbox scratch which will emerge as a little article about a WW2 British ration, the 14 in 1 Compo ration, which inspired the U.S. 10-in-1 food parcel aka the 10 in 1 ration. All very uncontroversial stuff, but my stress level is quite low at the moment so I am avoiding controversy. The J.N. article should be finished and submitted in the next week. Then the ration one will be next. The J.N article will probably have the WP record for the longest article in gestation. Ho hum. Hope you and yours are doing ok! Keep up the good work K.e.

I strongly support your 2 proposals in the current A.E by the way. Obviously both colleagues are strong minded and are skillful editors, but they should in my opinion rein back on maximalist positions and chill somewhat. I do not believe sanctions on anyone are appropriate at this time, rather a thorough re-evaluation of the sources, how they are deployed, and methodologies used should be the way ahead. At the moment there is a major ongoing disagreement in the real world of academia and the connective politics of the issue. The community should take responsibility for attempting to make sense of it. Many more eyes are needed. Irondome (talk) 02:17, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

JU 87 strudel?

Or the Me 109 Pfeffernuss. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:14, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Well the dessert airforce did drop thousands of tons of Bombes glacées. That's me done. Out of dessert-related luftwaffe aviation puns. Bugger! Irondome (talk) 05:33, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
They don't call it the LuftWaffel for nothing. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:58, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
Anyone for a Messerschnitte, then? Nishidani (talk) 13:52, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
It took me a while to figure the joke out, but I finally spotted it on the Rommel page. LuftWaffel for the win! --K.e.coffman (talk) 04:07, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 28, 2018)

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Cable transport

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The Bugle: Issue CXLVII, July 2018

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This week's article for improvement (week 29, 2018)

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Indian Slavery Act, 1843

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Just a thank you :)

Dear Irondome,

Thank you so much for your welcome. And kudos to whoever put together that assemblage of really useful links! It covered everything I wanted to know, and then some. GGSloth (talk) 18:56, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

Hello GGSloth! I am very glad it was of help to you. It is one a variety of Wikipedia:Welcome Templates that editors can put on new colleagues talk pages. I'm not intelligent enough to create things like that, I can assure you. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to drop by. Regards, Irondome (talk) 19:29, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 30, 2018)

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Louis IV of France

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Last two Israeli airstrikes in Syria

Could you paraphrase and restore at the end of this section (next to the last sentence) the following text regarding the last two alleged Israeli strikes? Next time I'll ask you the same to avoid copyright issues, if that's okay for you...

Syrian media reported that on July 15 Israel attacked the Nayrab military airport outside Aleppo. In the past Al-Nayrab has been linked to Iranian forces.[1] On July 22, Syrian state television reported that an Israeli airstrike hit a military site in the city of Misyaf in the Hama province, causing only material damage. An intelligence source assessed that a military research center for chemical arms production was located near the city.[2]

Thank you very much--יניב הורון (Yaniv) (talk) 00:44, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

  1. ^ "Israel said to strike Iran-linked base in northern Syria". Times of Israel. 15 July 2018.
  2. ^ "ISRAEL STRUCK MILITARY POST IN HAMA PROVINCE, SYRIAN STATE TELEVISION SAYS". Jerusalem Post. 22 July 2018.
Hi יניב הורון Leave it with me Yaniv, it will be done by later today. Paraphrasing is very straightforward if you imagine you are the author. Read the source and re-imagine it using your own words. There should be no similarity to the original wording but the import of the original will be obvious to thee reader. Your English skills look fine so this should not be a problem. I'm going to bed now but remember there's WP:NODEADLINE. WP is not a newspaper! After I have done it you can read my version and will get the idea. Speak tomorrow Yaniv. Simon. Irondome (talk) 01:02, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
Hi יניב הורון Yaniv. I have added the alleged 15 July strike. I would like to hold off recording the other one for now. The JP source is a bit sparse, and I think the 15th strike was more notable because it was executed on a target much farther north than is usual. Hope you are making progress with the links Diannaa provided. Anyway, take a look at the new entry at Iran-Israel proxy conflict and see how I have worded it, and compare with TOI source. Note I have used direct quotes from two organisations, but if you directly present them as quotes, using quotation marks i.e "user Irondome said", that is acceptable, as far as I am aware. Irondome (talk) 19:52, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
Just an update. I have removed the quotations from the 15 July incident. No issue, just to make the entry conform with the other previous entries, which are brief and contain no direct quotes. We don't want them overly wordy and bloated. Irondome (talk) 20:04, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. Everything looks fine.--יניב הורון (Yaniv) (talk) 18:46, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Just read

Reading has a special place in the history of medieval Anglo-Jewry thanks to Robert of Reading (referred to in the sources as Robert de Reddingge). He was a Dominican friar, an order that had been increasingly active in the thirteenth century in whipping up popular fury against local Jews through preaching anti-Jewish sermons. The monks also went into synagogues and forced Jews to sit through sermons designed to convert them to the 'true faith'. It seems that Robert of Reading studied Jewish literature - in order to gain background material for his anti-Jewish activities - but began to become interested in the faith himself. Finally, instead of leading the Jews to Christianity, he converted to Judaism, adopted the Hebrew name of Haggai and married a Jewish woman. The scandal of any Christian joining the unbelievers was bad enough, but the apostasy of one from the ranks of the clergy was even worse. This public disgrace for the Church could only result in severe punishment, but Robert/Haggai, along with his new wife, fled the country and disappeared from history. (His flight may have been hastened by memories of the fate of a deacon involved in a similar case in Oxford in 1222. He, too, adopted Judaism and was brought to trial at Osney Abbey, just outside Oxford, with no less a figure than the Archbishop of Canterbury, Stephen Langton, presiding. The deacon was unrepentant. When presented with a crucifix, he declared 'I renounce the newfangled law and the comments of Jesus the false prophet', and apparently blasphemed the Virgin Mary. He was sentenced to death and burnt at the stake.)

That put Reading on my map as travelling through to Oxford never did. Pity we don't have enough sources for either of these tales. I expected the second bit, but the first story is a wonderful cameo of triumphing over evil. (Jonathan Romain, 'River Jews: medieval Jews along the Thames as a microcosm of Anglo-Jewry,' Jewish Historical Studies, Vol. 43 (2011), pp. 21-42
Your mind has been on the proposal Lordbedo put to you yesterday asking for assistance I suspect my old friend. I say go for it! Fuck the haters, for their pre-conceived and perverse prejudices are unassailable, whether you are passive or indeed assist in the article improvement. So do good work! I would be happy to assist in any modest way I can. As to the two instances above, they are indeed fascinating and actually quite moving glimpses into a darker time. If we could only hear their words, motivations, and experience their immense courage. It put me in mind of the White Rose. The two individuals you mention were existing in the same totalitarian nightmare. We advance little. Si Irondome (talk) 18:12, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
Well, it was half a test. Lordbedo asked for help and disappeared. If (s)he doesn't show up, I don't really have the time to take it on (a nonogenariatric's need of care will take me to Germany and have me spend quite a bit of free time on fixing that), even though were I an emotive type I'd scream reading a lot of these articles: they just don't do justice to an extraordinary history, and I'm pissed off enough as it is at having to just edit the modern political side, which is pretty pointless. I'm afraid I don't think we are advancing. All I see is humanity sleepwalking back into a forgotten past. The object of hysterical hate may differ, but the mechanisms are always those set forth by Norman Cohn. It maybe just my age, or too much reading which makes me draw endless analogies with the past even when the kaleidoscopic virtuosity for instant change dazzles us into thinking things are different. Man will engineer a different kind of homo sapiens and I am somewhat content to be, with billions of others, one of the last generation of a species that lasted some 200,000 years. I grow rocket and feed it, following the excellent practice of Judge Dee, to two penny sized tortoises I found. Despite the anthropocene, I think those wary little eyes that fix me, now eagerly, as I handfeed them leaves, banana, apricots and crushed catpellets know something about enduring we don't. Cheers, Sy.Nishidani (talk) 19:09, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
Where on this page is any mention of the crucial factor in German-Jewish relations of the replacement of the Germanic law by Roman law, or that the suspension of the traditional Jewish right to bear arms (1103), a badge of social status, has been adduced by Guido Kisch as a precipitating factor in the decline of Jewish social status and their exposure to increased religious persecution because the lost right signified their acquired ignominy in the German realm? There are dozens of sociological factors like that which require mention. No. That's too complex? further.. If you can only imagine history as a succession of pogroms and blood libels, you are pushing a thesis. These articles are pamphlets for resentment or a weeping sense of grievance for the European past, and, as an outsider, I can tell you, it's not effective advocacy, because page after page, the readership gets bored rather than horrified. You get horrified if, together with the indispensable record of pogroms et al., you are presented with interleavning details to show the beauty, success and cultural achievements of the people then massacred.. I like that. I like that a lot. Si. Irondome (talk) 19:19, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
@Nishidani: My apologies for making it look like I disappeared! I've just tried to open a relevant discussion on the talk page to clarify the goals of the article. Would love your input. And I was so happy to already see such a vast improvement of the article lead. I'm inexperienced at finding relevant sources so any tips would be appreciated, and if you continue to link relevant sources in the talk page I can read through them and use them to make an article that's actually acceptable per WP standards. Lordbedo (talk) 19:28, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
Oh good. I think articles of an historical kind should be academically sourced, via books published over the last few decades by specialists or articles readily available on Jstor etc. If you find for example an article in googling that you'd like to read, we have a resources centre where you can ask someone to whip a copy off the site without your paying for it, and email it to you. In these things, urgency is the last problem: quiet reading up on the topic over weeks, and then preparing a solid edit works better in the long run. I think we need to look into, country by country, the formation of Jewish communities, their achievements and particularities (they had quite a lot of agricultural plots in France in the middle-late Ist millennium, for example (Malkiel). Their posasible trading links in the Mediterranean; the distinctive aspects of Ashkenazi Jewish rites, their eminent rabbinic tradition (some disliked by Maimonides!), the emergence of Yiddish, the sociology of their becoming the objects of Christian odium (different causes in different places); the peculiar circumstance that Sephardic Jews, when pressured, converted to Islam en masse whereas those of Germany preferred the Masada 'solution' rather than betray their faith by conversion; things like that are good to keep an eye out for. I will shortly be away on family obligations, so can't do much for a week or two at least. Regards. Nishidani (talk) 19:45, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.12 30 July 2018

Chart of the New Pages Patrol backlog for the past 6 months. (Purge)

Hello Simon Adler, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

June backlog drive

Overall the June backlog drive was a success, reducing the last 3,000 or so to below 500. However, as expected, 90% of the patrolling was done by less than 10% of reviewers.
Since the drive closed, the backlog has begun to rise sharply again and is back up to nearly 1,400 already. Please help reduce this total and keep it from raising further by reviewing some articles each day.

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This week's article for improvement (week 31, 2018)

Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Liqueur

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Previous selections: Louis IV of France • Indian Slavery Act, 1843

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Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:05, 30 July 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

Israeli democracy debate

I'd like to know your opinion about this discussion and this one. Thanks.--יניב הורון (Yaniv) (talk) 00:14, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

I shall be commenting at length. The debate at this point is intellectually flabby. We need to define democracy, the recent concept of multiculturalism and how that impacts on long-standing perceptions of democracy, and the definition of self-determination. I am sure we can question the recent activities of the Spanish Government, and it's violent suppression of Catalonian self-determination. Is Spain no longer a democracy due to it's extreme actions? I see no activity on the Spain article arguing for a similar move. Again it would appear that Israel is being held by a different standard by some fringe groups. I believe this is one of the measures of the definition of antisemitism adopted by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (widely accepted internationally although not by a certain bearded person in the U.K), that of " Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation" I have much more to say, backed up with sources more robust that flimsy newspaper op-eds.Irondome (talk) 02:39, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

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This week's article for improvement (week 32, 2018)

Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Club drug

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Liqueur • Louis IV of France

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Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:05, 6 August 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

Sid James

No great revelations in that clip. He likes fishing and he did skipping every morning to "keep trim"! As you will see from the BBC page: "The full interview will be broadcast in Carry On Up The Archive - a celebration of 60 years of the Carry On films on BBC Local Radio over Christmas 2018." Sir Bernard Cutting 123 (talk) 07:43, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

I really appreciate you checking that out Sir Bernard Cutting 123 (talk). I heard snippits of the interview via my phone. Sid sounds relaxed. Interesting story behind the subsequent life of the tape too. There has been a little flurry of activity on the article since, mostly about Sue James, who didn't seem to be mentioned in the article before. Thanks again mate! Irondome (talk) 13:47, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
No worries. I guess the Bournemouth tape could be added to the article in it's own right. His daughter Reina seemed very pleased to hear it. Former presenter Jeff Link looked a bit different in those days! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:55, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
That's a good idea. We could create a new short section. It's notable enough meefinks. Yeah he looks funky. In honour of his look I have declared today 1976 day in my flat. I am wearing yellow polyester bell-bottoms done up with string (no longer a 28 waist), a suitably period T shirt and my late mother's long red wig as I write this. I have plastic platforms somewhere. I have to go out to the shop later but fuck em. B.T.W I did not know you were dead. You may well get a tax break from that. Irondome (talk) 15:25, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
Shame on you! What have you done with that skimpy cheesecloth shirt and those puce velvet loon pants I gave you only last Christmas?! Emperor Trotsko 123 (talk) 15:38, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
Martinevans123 I keep them for my bestest best and they are cherished I tell you.. re old Sidney, I have added a section covering the interview. Take a look me ole apples and china and see wot youse think. It's a single sourcer but I'm thinking that section is about the right length for the subject, so the beeb source holds it I'd say. Irondome (talk) 18:13, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXLVIII, August 2018

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 08:35, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 33, 2018)

Hello, Irondome.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Anna Anka

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Club drug • Liqueur

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Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:05, 13 August 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions
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