User talk:Terry Carrick

January 2011

Welcome to Wikipedia. Please do not replace pages with blank content, as you did with this edit to William Lawson (co-operator and agriculturalist) (1836–1916), of Brayton Aspatria, as this is confusing to readers. The page's content has been restored for now. If there is a problem with the page, it should be edited or reverted to a previous version if possible; if you think the page should be removed entirely, see further information. Thank you. TheMike •^{Wassup doc?} 13:48, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I think it would be sensible to remove the page entirely, so have requested its deletion. Readers are much more likely to find the new page than this one. Bob1960evens (talk) 10:27, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Article on William Lawson (co-operator)

Hi Terry. I have had a quick look at the William Lawson article, and can see most of the issues. The first was the title. No-one is going to link to your article if is has a name like William Lawson (co-operator and agriculturalist) (1836-1916) of Brayton Aspatria, because all of that text needs to go into their link, whereas someone can more easily link to William Lawson (businessman). We like snappy titles on Wikipedia. Also, to get to the article if you are not jumping from a link, requires you to type all of that in.

The manual of style WP:MOS suggests you need a lead section, which has a brief summary of the content of the article. This should include the subject in bold, so would be something like

William Lawson was an agriculturalist blah blah...

The lead should reflect the length of the article, but I usually put in a short one while I am building the article, and expand it once the content is organised. You then need to split the subject matter into suitable sections. Each section has a title, like this ==Achievements==, which will appear like this:

Achievements

and will get built into a table of contents just below your lead section. If you need to sub-divide a section, you can use three equals (===Subsection===). I don't do much on people, but take a look at William Jessop to give you an idea of what a Wikipedia article looks like. I'll be happy to pop round and talk this over with you soon. Keep up the good work.

P.S. It would be good to edit your user page, just to say something like: Hi, I'm Terry. I'm interested in ... It took me a while to find you with no user page set up. Bob1960evens (talk) 22:56, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Terry Carrick. You have new messages at MikeLynch's talk page.
Message added 15:00, 28 January 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Leaving messages on talk pages

Hi Terry, I have just followed the link to Mike Lynch's talk page above, and noticed you left a message there. If you sign such messages with 4 tildes (~~~~), then it puts in a link back to your user page, which makes it easier for everyone. Like this one here --> Bob1960evens (talk) 16:45, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Moving William Lawson

Hi Terry, I have moved the article to William Lawson (co-operator) for you, and fixed the disambiguation page. Bob1960evens (talk) 17:23, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Bob I have made the changes to the document that we discussed. I would welcome any other comments. Terry Terry Carrick (talk) 14:38, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi Terry, the article is looking a lot better. However, it is still quite light on references. The financial failures section, for instance, has lots of numbers in it, but no ref at all. Where could I check, for instance, that the manure works made £235, and not £2.25M? I think it needs to be read critically for grammer. So, in early life, it says: he received his education at home, where he later declared: "He learned as little as possible." Either he declared "I learned as little as possible" or he declared that he learned as little as possible. Only schizophrenics speak of themselves in the third person. Then we have: His parents, he declared, "Were more anxious...". The "were" is in the middle of a sentence, and so should not be capitalised. Then we have: Later recalling, "I found himself in my 25th year..." There is a mix of first and third person, and it is a sub-clause, not a sentence. Since it is not obviously connected to the previous sentence, it could be: Later he recalled ... Sometimes it is easier to print it out and mark it up with a highlighter.

The wikilink Town Gas needs to be sorted, ie [[Town Gas|town gas]], so that it looks right in the middle of a senctence. I think 'rural rides' needs explaining or rewording. I think I would say, read it ruthlessly. Then the lead paragraph is far too small for the size of article. It needs to summarise the contents, rather than draw conclusions. I think the conclusions would probably count as original research, ie, they are your conclusions, rather than being based on a published summary of the guy's life. Wikipedia frowns on this sort of original research, so you need to ensure that his main achievements are clearly described in the text, and if there is no published summary, then readers should be able to draw their own conclusions as to what he did. It is always a bit more difficult when the main source is a primary one, rather than a secondary one, that is, it is written by the guy who the article is about.

I hope this is constructive. It is worth browsing round Wikipedia to look at the style guide, and read some of the good articles and featured articles. Generally, if the article is written as part of a project, then the Discussion page will have an information box about the project, and ratings. They are not always as up-to-date as the article, but anything rated 'GA' or 'FA' has been peer reviewed, and articles rated 'B' will have been assessed by others within that particular project. For GA and FA articles, there is usually a summary of what needed fixing for it to pass the review, which can be quite instructive. Happy editing! Bob1960evens (talk) 23:32, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

PS I'm not sure the post office is still open for business. Have a look here. [1] Bob1960evens (talk) 10:08, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Suggestions on William Lawson

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia,

Some other editors have made good suggestions, and I wanted to offer more. The main shortcoming that I see with the article is that it appears largely to be your own original research although I could be wrong. You make many statements that seem to be historical judgments, without referencing reliable sources. You should also be careful to write from the neutral point of view. Any superlatives or unusually colorful language should be in the form of brief quotes from reliable sources, rather than your own words. In other words, this man is significant because of what the reliable sources say, rather than what you conclude yourself. Always remember that Wikipedia editors are not considered reliable sources, even those with PhDs, unless their work has been published elsewhere. You should also make an effort to Wikify your article, adding links to other Wikipedia articles that explain terms that readers may wish to understand better. Put yourself in the place of a reader in the USA or India or Jamaica who may not know the people and places you mention. Link to them. I hope my suggestions prove useful. Feel free to ask questions. Cullen328 (talk) 00:47, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Well summed up Jim! TheMike •^{Wassup doc?} 12:10, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Sir Wilfrid Wybergh Lawson, 1st Baronet

A tag has been placed on Sir Wilfrid Wybergh Lawson, 1st Baronet, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing no content to the reader. Please note that external links, "See also" section, book reference, category tag, template tag, interwiki link, rephrasing of the title, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article don't count as content. Moreover, please add more verifiable sources, not only 3rd party sources. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content. You may wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles - see the Article Wizard.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you plan to expand the article, you can request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material. To do this, affix the template {{hang on}} to the page and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Kamkek (talk) 16:11, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Thomas Holliday

Hi Terry, I see you've changed Thomas Holliday's nickname from "Toff" to "Tosh". MacRusgail added the nickname "Toff", and referenced 'Godwin, Terry Complete Who's Who of International Rugby (Cassell, 1987, ISBN 0713718382)'. Also, ESPNscrum also has the nickname "Toff", being an Aspatrian you're probably right, but have you got a reference stating "Tosh". Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 20:32, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

I can only speak for the people of Aspatria. I knew Tosh well and often bought items from his shop. He was a mild mannered humble sort of person not a Toff at all. Up hear in the far north people called Thomas or Thompson are often given the nickname Tosh.

As for references I will have. I have newspaper reports of most of Apatria games from 1878 to about 1990. I have published a book relating to the history of the club. Unfortunately I will not be available after tomorrow for a few weeks but upon my return I will add all references to the Rugby articles I have added.Terry Carrick (talk) 12:04, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Checked my records

Holliday was known at the time as T.E. Holiday, Tom, Holliday and Tosh no mention anywhere in the local papers of Toff. I guess this was a southerner who failed to understand the strong Cumberland accent. On another matter Cumberland won the cup in 1924 not Cumberland and Westmorland.

Cumbria (Cumberland, Westmorland and parts of North Lancs) won it in the 90's against Cornwall

Regards

terryTerry Carrick (talk) 19:32, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Aspatria Agricultural Cooperative Society

Hey, the lead on your new article, Aspatria Agricultural Cooperative Society is very confusing and gives the reader little or no context of where the company was formed, who formed it, etc. I suggest that you read WP:Lead and see what kinds of information should be included therein. I for one, have no clue where Aspartia district is or what it means. You should explain these things, because Wikipedia articles are written for a global audience. If you need any help, or want more feedback, feel free to ask, Sadads (talk) 12:16, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Jenny Cowern article

Terry, I have created a talk page behind the Jenny Cowern article, and left a number of suggestions as to what the tags mean, and how the issues can be addressed. Feel free to challenge any or all of them, or drop me a note if you need any help. Bob1960evens (talk) 17:23, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Sheila Fell article

I have been browsing around and noticed that this article is linked to Auerbach, but that is a disambiguation page, and there are 22 people called Auerbach on it. I could not guess which one it should be linked to. Bob1960evens (talk) 18:33, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Sandbox1

Hi, Terry. FYI, I have "commented out" the categories in User:Terry Carrick/Sandbox1 to prevent the page appearing in the mainspace categories while you're still working on it. Regards. DH85868993 (talk) 03:49, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

can you help how do I change this.Terry Carrick (talk) 11:49, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

To restore the categories you need to remove the "<!--" before the categories and the "-->" after the categories. I see that you did one half and User:PKT did the other half. Regards. DH85868993 (talk) 14:12, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Matthew Spark DCM

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A tag has been placed on Matthew Spark DCM requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

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• I have recently been working on John Henry Barlow who was a contemporary of Matthew and also lived in Carlisle but was implacably opposed to all fighting with outward weapons. So I had a certain sympathy for your article. I have moved it to Draft:Matthew Spark to give you a chance to establish notability. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 15:26, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Can you help please. I really don't know what the problem is. How do you define notability. Matthew was not just a soldier, there are millions of those. He was awarded the DCM, which I believe is the next honour down for a non commissioned officer after the VC. He his the Highest decorated soldier in the district to which he lived. I find it hard to understand when I see pages upon pages of articles about minor and in some case insignificant people, who happened to play a game or play an instrument. I suppose if one had an MBE it would be OK. Sorry for going onTerry Carrick (talk) 15:40, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

• Improve the references. If necessary, do what I did for John Henry create pages such as this pair: an image to help establish authenticity and an OCR'd version for Google. Or this page which may look like image only but has the text for Google in a display:none; section. I might even be willing to host such pages for you! — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 20:40, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

I have reflected on the article in question and I have come to the conclusion that the best thing to do all round is to deleted the article on the premise that the subject is not notable. I have not changed my mind relating to the unworthiness of many of the obscure pop stars, sportsmen and so called celebrities that occasionally appear unscathed or beyond criticism. Can someone help to remove the article, as I am not to sure what the procedure is.Terry Carrick (talk) 12:47, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Are you going to be making sudden major additions to more Cumbria village articles being worked on as part of an educational assignment?

Yesterday (26/1/2015), you added a lot of material to the Bromfield, Cumbria page. As its Talk page recorded, this was just starting to be worked on by a student on this course that I run: Education Program:University of Portsmouth/Applied Human Geography (Spring 2015)

We check very carefully not just that articles are stubs but also that they have not been edited for at least twelve months, other than by bots or very minor tidying up. We also work with Wikimedia UK, and make full use of their facilities for running courses which includes marking up the articles we are working on. We even got an award for the course at Wikimania last year.

In this case we have had to assign the student a new article to work on. If you start work on another article marked as being used by a course, could you first contact the course via its Talk page? The Wikipedia guidelines for courses like ours say "Established editors should welcome student editors, and students should learn to communicate via the normal Wikipedia channels, such as on article talk pages and user talk pages" -- so could you use the talk page to communicate with us? Bromfield is now water under the bridge, but are you preparing similar big additions for other village articles?

Thanks

Humphrey Southall (Professor of Historical Geography, University of Portsmouth) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Humphrey.Southall (talk • contribs) 14:45, 27 January 2015 (UTC) I must apologise for any inconvenience caused. I was not aware that someone else was working on the Bromfield article. I do intend to do some work on the Hayton, Allerdale site also on Hayton Castle and also on a number of the members of the Musgrave family associated with the area. If these have been assigned to others can you please let me knowTerry Carrick (talk) 14:52, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

• Hi Terry. Those particular pages sound like they are not on our list for this year. We only assign articles about places which are civil parishes, not people or buildings. They must be marked as stub articles and be very short, so Hayton, Allerdale is already much too long. The course page (Spring 2015 link provided above) does have all the articles currently assigned to students listed on it, and all the talk pages for individual articles have been tagged as being part of an educational course to make it easy for other editors to identify them. The students only started the course on the 20th January and the second editing class was a week later (the 27th), hence they had not got far with their editing when you made your additions to Bromfield. The assignments are due on the 27th April. We try to encourage the students to interact with other Wikipedians through their article talk pages, so you are welcome to make suggestions to them on how they might improve their articles if they are working on one you are interested in. Paula (assisting with teaching this course) Paula vob 18:24, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

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