User talk:Wugapodes/Archive 31

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Tech News: 2022-39

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:43, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Tech News: 2022-40

MediaWiki message delivery 00:22, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Question from Tegh987 (11:53, 2 October 2022)

Hello, how can i write a new article about a person? --Tegh987 (talk) 11:53, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi Tegh987, starting a new article is a big task, so feel free to ask questions if you're confused or unsure. The first step is to gather sources. All articles on Wikipedia must satisfy our inclusion criteria and you will need to show that the person has been written about in multiple sources, independent from the person, and which are generally reliable for factually reporting. Additionally, articles on living people must comply with our policy on biographies of living people. Since your account is new, your articles need to be reviewed by others to ensure it meets those requirements, and you can learn more about that review process at the articles for creation page. I'm glad you're interested in editing! There are also other tasks around the encyclopedia that you can try while waiting for your article to be reviewed. Let me know if you have any questions! Wug·a·po·des 01:37, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi, your bot seems to have stopped updating this template starting from June 1. Did you turn the update off? OhanaUnitedTalk page 23:28, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know; I did not turn it off and am working on restoring it. There seem to have been some changes to the server hosting WugBot that I wasn't aware of and it broke the R script. I hope to get it back up by the end of this weekend. Wug·a·po·des 00:57, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
This is turning out to be a more stubborn problem than I thought. Still working on it, will get it back up ASAP Wug·a·po·des 01:56, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

The disturbing emergence of Loab

New Nexpo released today. It's a bit brief this time, only 20 min, but yet another masterpiece from the fright master: The Disturbing Art of A.I. Don't watch after 3 AM! El_C 05:05, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

@El C: I remember seeing the Loab thread on twitter when it first broke. Quite spooky (great for october). I've been playing around with the Stable Diffusion model that got leaked a few months ago and it's really interesting technology. My friends and I were going back-and-forth on how copyright might apply to images made by machine learning models, and I think it's going to be a problem for Wikipedia and Commons in the near future. It seems that commons has taken the position that these are public domain (see c:Template:PD-algorithm), but it will be interesting to see where that goes in the near future. So for me, Loab is spooky in more ways than one! I'll give the Nexpo video a watch (before 3am!) right after I upload some Loab artwork for that article. Wug·a·po·des 01:47, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Same! I was just fucking around with it yesterday with some negative weight prompts (link for talk page stalkers). BTW, weird how a month ago it was taking like 5 min per average prompt, whereas now it averages 30 seconds. Do you know if they optimized it or something? Anyway, got some pretty creepy results. Kinda fucked my falling-a-sleep that night, even. Interestingly, I had a prompt that included the terms AI-generated negative weight prompt + no Loab, but I kept getting the un-displayed "unsafe content" result. Did I double negate it?
But, yeah, I was gonna ask someone (Diannaa) about the copyrights because I wanted to upload some of the better results I got. Unincidentally, if you feel like a spooky Loab-focused story with some eerie imagery, Mr Sinister released a good one a few days ago. It's about an artist that gets haunted by Loab (I liked it a lot). El_C 02:08, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
They probably optimized it when they were getting hit by a lot of requests around the Loab thread, and since that hype has died down, they're probably also fielding fewer requests. I think the text model is able to handle the two negatives, my guess is that the image model interpreted it strangely. Prompt engineering is an interesting field that looks at how to communicate with these models, and prompt engineers often have to grapple with the fact that machines can learn concepts in ways that are counterintuitive or even incomprehensible to us humans. I for one praise our robot overlords though.
Diannaa certainly knows more about copyright than I do, so she'd have a better opinion. I uploaded the OG Loab on the argument that it's fundamentally a non-human creation. I think there's a reasonable copyright claim over prompts, since those are clearly human created and require some degree of originality, but the output is not determined by the prompt, and the algorithm has transformed that (possibly) copyright-eligible text to the point that the connection between the two works is tenuous (e.g., how could I prove that a particular prompt generated a particular image, or the reverse?). It seems the UK grants copyright for these images, but they also have a lower threshold of originality and generally recognize sweat-of-the-brow as contributing to copyright (which the US does not). Either way, it's Commons' problem now!
And thanks for the rec, I'll check it out. I read an SCP on a haunted chess board (SCP-1875) which that reminded me of. Wug·a·po·des 02:40, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Honestly, all that copyright stuff goes over my head, so I'll leave that to more, uh, stable minds. ;) But, indeed, I've seen several attempts at explaining the Loab phenomena, including ones that attribute it to something like an AI unconscious or dream state, an explanation that I find a bit amorphic, but also super-interesting. And, who knows, perhaps it is that line of inquiry that'll end up being the spark. In Debunking and Explaining Loab - The ghost in the Machine (AI / Machine Learning), YouTuber Frank The Tank presents the notion that AI machine learning operates on a somewhat similar structure as out own brains' neuronal network. Which kinda makes sense and is a concept a find fascinating. Still, as of now, at least in so far as I've been able to gather from my limited background, it remains a mystery. But I like mysteries! :) El_C 15:18, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
@El C: It's a tough concept for anyone to wrap their head around, but the AI text example is a great one though I think the youtuber doesn't connect it together well. You can do that same "negative prompt" thing with words, and I think it makes a bit more sense than images since text is simpler. Computerphile did a good explainer on word embeddings which I think gives a better intuition. For a computer, the meaning of a word is just the combination of words it appears around most often. From there we can turn that into a list of probabilities (a vector) and do math on them, including negation which is "what words don't occur near this one?". What AI image generators are doing is way more complex, but at a high level, it helps build an intuition about how an AI understands, combines, and negates things---it's like word embeddings but for pictures. Wug·a·po·des 22:54, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
Oh, wow, I don't know why I failed to think about it from that angle, but of course it makes sense that it's about clustering/de-clustering. I'm so dumb. An AI demon would be way cooler more terrifying, though. Oh well. Still, there's a qualitative nuance there, in the output, that seems counterintuitive to the point of being a non sequitur. Like, with Loab: (1) appearing from negative weight prompt'ing that seemingly-random Latin text overtop that weird skyline, itself an output of negative weight prompt'ing "Brando" [Dark Brando?]; (2) and then proliferating; (3) and having its disturbing components grow in intensity [To a point?]; (4) and also, the cycle of Loab appearing, disappearing for entire generations, only to reappear again, eventually. So, some mystery still to be had there, I'd trick-or-treat challenge... El_C 03:20, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

WugBot copyright notice

Hi -- just wanted to let you know that I've been using much of the code in WugBot for a bot I'm working on, and that I will be incorporating the copyright notice you included in GANReportBot in my code to credit you. It's not going to be easy to segregate the code I wrote from your original code, so I propose to add an explanatory note to the end of the copyright notice. I'm not sure what normal usage is in such a case but this seems the easiest thing to do. I'll drop you a link to the code when it's in production. And thanks for making your code public; it's saved me hours of work. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:12, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

@Mike Christie Yes, I've seen your pings but replying to them has continued to slip my mind unfortunately. I'm glad the source has been helpful! I chose the MIT License to be as permissive as possible with re-use and modification. As long as you include the copyright notice and license grant somewhere then you've complied with the license even if you haven't separated out what parts I wrote. If you're willing to license your modifications under the MIT License, you can simply add your name to the copyright statement, otherwise you can include your own preferred license alongside the MIT license. If you have any questions about the code, feel free to ask. Email is probably the best way to get in touch with me at the moment, though feel free to leave me talk page messages if that's easier for you. Wug·a·po·des 23:22, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll email you if needed. I appreciate it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:05, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Ora Washington: discrepancy in middle name

Hi Wugapodes - Back on 9 February 2020 you edited the article on Ora Washington, including adding the middle name "Belle" in the first line of the lead, but without giving a source reference for this name. The problem is that the infobox had long shown -- and still now shows -- her middle name as "Mae". Will it be possible for you to verify that edit, now nearly three years later? I personally have no references at all for her, and was merely looking her up here; but in any event the name discrepancy needs to be resolved somehow. The article presently says that Virginia did not issue birth certificates during the period 1896-1912, so some confusion or inconsistency regarding her name does not seem unlikely. If you can find your source, perhaps just a brief sentence or two addressing the "Mae"/"Belle" problem could explain it. She may have used both names at different times; or it's possible that the long-standing "Mae" has always been wrong, if that can't be verified. Thanks for any help in fixing this. Milkunderwood (talk) 04:17, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Milkunderwood:, a good catch! I don't remember what source I read, exactly, but on a cursory search, I found this article from 2019 which refers to her as Ora Belle Washington. On the other hand, this article from 2017 uses Ora Mae Washington. My guess is there's simply uncertainty in the name. I'm paywalled out of the NYTs for the month, but based on a preview, her NYT obit seems to use Belle (the obit is from February of this year, well after my 2020 edit, making it possible that it's just a reflection of our claim). Wug·a·po·des 04:27, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
If you look at your complete edits on that date, you do reference "cite book|last=Grundy|first=Pamela|year=2006|chapter=Ora Washington: The First Black Female Athletic Star|title=Out of the Shadows: A Biographical History of African American Athletes|pages=79-92". So if you still have access to Grundy, that might be where you found the name Belle. And she might possibly mention the name Mae somewhere. (I suspect you're right that NYT probably got their "Belle" from you.) Anyway, it's worth researching, if you're up for the hassle. And there may or may not be an authoritative source for "Mae" -- I haven't looked through the refs. Milkunderwood (talk) 05:09, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
Ah, now I remember, yes that was part of an edit-a-thon at a private library that I visited. I don't have the book on hand (it wasn't mine to begin with), but I'll ask around and see if I can get my hands on it. Thanks for reminding me of this. Wug·a·po·des 05:19, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) This article quotes a historian as saying "I have no idea where this Mae has come from. I’ve never seen in the contemporary, like, in the newspapers of the time — when they were reporting on her, they’re just calling her Ora Washington. They are not calling her Ora Mae Washington." ProQuest indicates that most sources are using Mae, but none of them seem predate her death. There are a few that use Belle (e.g. this 2004 book), but it's a very small minority (plus none of those are from during her lifetime either). Tricky one—maybe it'd be best to just use "Ora Washington" in the lead/body, with the middle-name uncertainty mentioned in a footnote. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 06:00, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Tech News: 2022-41

14:07, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Question from Thereaderschoolgirl22 (16:51, 11 October 2022)

Hello! I want to know how to make a completely new article --Thereaderschoolgirl22 (talk) 16:51, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi Thereaderschoolgirl22! Glad you're interested in contributing, starting a new article is a big task, so feel free to ask questions if you're confused or unsure. The first step is to gather sources. All articles on Wikipedia must satisfy our inclusion criteria and you will need to show that the person has been written about in multiple sources, independent from the person, and which are generally reliable for factually reporting. Additionally, articles on living people must comply with our policy on biographies of living people. Since your account is new, your articles need to be reviewed by others to ensure it meets those requirements, and you can learn more about that review process at the articles for creation page. I'm glad you're interested in editing! There are also other tasks around the encyclopedia that you can try while waiting for your article to be reviewed. Let me know if you have any questions! Wug·a·po·des 20:26, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Original Barnstar
I see I got you as my mentor, I'll be asking lots of questions about edits and draft submission. Oh, one more thing, do share the enlightenment and way to become a privileged editor on Wikipedia.

See you Wugapodes! Skipdivers (talk) 10:17, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Tech News: 2022-42

MediaWiki message delivery 21:44, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Tech News: 2022-43

MediaWiki message delivery 21:21, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 October 2022

WugBot question

Hi -- I'm hoping to replace the GAN functions of Legobot sometime in the next few weeks. I have been creating a parallel set of pages to track whether I can repeat the Legobot functionality, and the page that is supposed to match WP:GAN is User:ChristieBot/GAN existing format. If/when the BRFA is approved, I'll write that format, minus the ToC and plus the top and bottom material, to WP:GAN. I know WugBot parses the page, so I was wondering if you would have time to check if it will cope with the new page? I tried to make it very close, but there are a couple of minor differences (e.g. I'm not reproducing the nominator/reviewer custom signatures).

If you don't have time, I think I can probably reproduce the report WugBot writes, but of course it would be best if it could just keep working. Thanks -- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:06, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

I've set up a testing job for WugBot which will read from User:ChristieBot/GAN existing format as if it were GAN, and write to User:Wugapodes/GANReportBotTest as if it were the report page. This test will run every day at the same time the regular update runs (but let me know if you'd like it more often). From the first run, everything seems fine so I wouldn't worry too much; WugBot is pretty resilient. It can handle arbitrary section and subsection titles, for example, and it ignores everything that isn't a heading or a GAN entry. As long as you've got entries under headings, WugBot should find it, but let me know if something breaks and I'll see what's up. Wug·a·po·des 19:23, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
That sounds great; thanks. I'll watchlist the test report and keep an eye on it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:31, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Tech News: 2022-44

MediaWiki message delivery 21:14, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – November 2022

News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2022).

Guideline and policy news

Arbitration

Miscellaneous


Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:24, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

WikiCup 2022 November newsletter

The 2022 WikiCup has drawn to a close with the final round going down to the wire. The 2022 champion is

  • England Lee Vilenski (1752 points), who won in 2020 and was runner up in both 2019 and last year. In the final round he achieved 3 FAs and 15 GAs, mostly on cue sports. He was closely followed by
  • Kingdom of Scotland Bloom6132 (1732), who specialised in "In the news" items and DYKs, and who has reached the final round of the Cup for the past three years. Next was
  • Zulu (International Code of Signals) BennyOnTheLoose (1238), another cue sports enthusiast, also interested in songs, followed by
  • New York City Muboshgu (1082), an "In the news" contributor, a seasoned contestant who first took part in the Cup ten years ago. Other finalists were
  • Sammi Brie (930), who scored with a featured article, good articles and DYKs on TV and radio stations,
  • United Nations Kavyansh.Singh (370), who created various articles on famous Americans, including an FA on Louis H. Bean, famed for his prediction of election outcomes. Next was
  • Chicago PCN02WPS (292), who scored with good articles and DYKs on sporting and other topics and
  • Toronto Z1720 (25) who had DYKs on various topics including historic Canadians.

During the WikiCup, contestants achieved 37 featured articles, 349 good articles, 360 featured article reviews, 683 good article reviews and 480 In the news items, so Wikipedia has benefited greatly from the activities of WikiCup competitors. Well done everyone! All those who reached the final round will receive awards and the following special awards will be made, based on high performance in particular areas of content creation and review. So that the finalists do not have an undue advantage, these prizes are awarded to the competitor who scored the highest in any particular field in a single round, or the overall leader in this field.

  • England Lee Vilenski wins the featured article prize, for a total of 6 FAs during the course of the competition and 3 in the final round.
  • United Nations Kavyansh.Singh wins the featured list prize, for 3 FLs in round 2.
  • Adam Cuerden wins the featured picture prize, for 39 FPs during the competition.
  • Toronto Z1720 wins the featured article reviewer prize, for 35 FARs in round 4.
  • New York (state) Epicgenius wins the good article prize, for 32 GAs in round 1.
  • SounderBruce wins the featured topic prize, for 4 FT articles in round 1.
  • England Lee Vilenski wins the good topic prize, for 34 GT articles in round 5.
  • Sammi Brie wins the good article reviewer prize, for 71 GARs overall.
  • Sammi Brie wins the Did you know prize, for 30 DYKs in round 3 and 106 overall.
  • Kingdom of Scotland Bloom6132 wins the In the news prize, for 106 ITNs in round 5 and 289 overall.

Next year's competition will begin on 1 January and possible changes to the rules and scoring are being discussed on the discussion page. You are invited to sign up to take part in the contest; the WikiCup is open to all Wikipedians, both novices and experienced editors, and we hope to have a good turnout for the 2023 competition. Until then, it only remains to once again congratulate our worthy winners and finalists, and thank all participants for their involvement! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. Sturmvogel 66 and Cwmhiraeth. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:29, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Tech News: 2022-45

MediaWiki message delivery 00:30, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

Your feedback is requested at Wikipedia talk:Biographies of living persons on a "All RFCs" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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Question from Elmehdielbadaoui (11:21, 9 November 2022)

Hello dear, I hope you are doing well and safe

I'm trying to create ana biography about an actor in Morocco yet the imdb references are not eligible as references, I would like to know what kind of alternative references needed ?

Thank you --Elmehdielbadaoui (talk) 11:21, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

More readable article

Thanks for listening to me and making the changes. May I also suggest you consider changing the rather long sentence: "It used to be only the study of the systems of phonemes in spoken languages, but it now may also cover any linguistic analysis either at a level beneath the word (including syllable, onset and rime, articulatory gestures, articulatory features, mora, etc.) or at all levels of language where sound or signs are structured to convey linguistic meaning." I count about 66 words which requires a grade 31 to read (how many PHDs is that :). Here is a suggested revision: At one time it only related to the study of the systems of phonemes in spoken languages. Now it may cover either a) any linguistic analysis either at a level beneath the word (including syllable, onset and rime, articulatory gestures, articulatory features, mora, etc.), or b) all levels of language where sound or signs are structured to convey linguistic meaning. I will leave it too you. Cheers. John (talk) 22:29, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctions review: proposed decision and community review

You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to updates on the Arbitration Committee's discretionary sanctions review process. The Proposed Decision phase of the discretionary sanctions review process has now opened. A five-day public review period for the proposed decision, before arbitrators cast votes on the proposed decision, is open through November 18. Any interested editors are invited to comment on the proposed decision talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:56, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Tech News: 2022-46

MediaWiki message delivery 21:53, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Adding WugBot tasks?

Hi. I'm thinking about creating a bot to classify DYK submissions by type. Specifically, "American" vs "Non-American" and "Biography" vs "Non-Biography". I would implement this by adding categories to the nomination templates. The idea is to make it easier to do prep building. If you know, for example, that you need to avoid putting two biography hooks next to each other, and you've already got too many American hooks in the set, it'll make it easier to filter the approved list to those that are possibilities.

There would be two parts to this. The first is the bot that runs every so often to add the categories. The other is some kind of front end which implements on-demand filtering.

I've never done a bot before, but it seems to me it probably makes more sense to just add some tasks to an existing bot (i.e. WugBot) rather than do a new one from scratch. Is this a reasonable idea? -- RoySmith (talk) 19:52, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

@RoySmith: I'm open to the idea but I'm not sure a bot task is the right solution here. The major question is: how do we know what categories to add? That's not trivial for a bot to do. For example, US-UK relations, would the bot tag that as American or non-American? My first guess at how to do this is reading the categories an article is in and if it has "United States" or "Biography" in any of the category names, add the DYK sorting cat. Maybe implement some kind of score method as well (4 categories with "United States" is more likely to be "American" than an article with 1 category).
The fronst end would probably be a user script. I have the guts of a prep-building user script laying around somewhere, I'll look into it. As a first approximation, it will probably just load the bolded pages and display a count of hooks in each cat. From there we can extend things to checking non-adjacency and warning about balance.
I like the idea, but I'm spread a little thin at the moment, so I can't promise much more than some working examples. Long term, what I think we need to do is get a DYK infrastructure working group organized. There are a lot of ideas floating around, and a lot of people working separately on different pieces. If we took some time to coordinate, I think the DYK process could be streamlined. If you know of anyone who would be interested in that, feel free to send them my way. Wug·a·po·des 21:55, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
OK, thanks. I'll work on some proof-of-concept stuff for a while and see if it goes anywhere. Once/if I get to the point where I can reasonably assign cats, I'll come back to looking at how to wrap a bot around it. -- RoySmith (talk) 22:00, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
@RoySmith: Good to hear, looking forward to hearing about your progress, and be in touch if you run into any snags. If you're planning on proof-of-concept stuff, you might find wikitech:PAWS useful. It's an interactive python interface for pywikibot and is useful for rapid prototyping of bots. Wug·a·po·des 22:29, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, I've seen PAWS. I did some work in ipython years ago (which is what eventually evolved into jupyter) but never really got into it. I'm old-school; emacs and git are more my style. I do have to admit though, the integrated graph support is totally awesome, and sometimes I use it just for that. -- RoySmith (talk) 22:38, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Tech News: 2022-47

MediaWiki message delivery 23:20, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

WugBot

Hi -- the new GAN bot is in place and it looks like everything is working fine, so I think you can disable the test page now. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:53, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

@Mike Christie: Good to hear! I've stopped the process, but let me know if you ever need it started again. Wug·a·po·des 23:53, 24 November 2022 (UTC)