Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Jean-Baptiste Ouédraogo/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 00:45, 29 April 2018 [1].

Jean-Baptiste Ouédraogo[edit]

Nominator(s): Indy beetle (talk) 16:26, 3 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about probably the least well-known President of Burkina Faso, back when it was called the Republic of Upper Volta. He began his career as an army medic, and was elevated to the presidency of this small West African country on 9 November 1982 following a coup that toppled a military dictatorship. He was shortly thereafter given charge of the Ministry of National Defence and Veterans Affairs. The country remained unstable under Ouédraogo's reign, and the latter half of his tenure was overshadowed by the popularity of his prime minister, Thomas Sankara. Concerned with his socialist sympathies, Ouédraogo fired Sankara and arrested him. This resulted in a national political dispute that culminated in another coup on 4 August 1983, bringing Sankara to power (he would go on to become something of an African legend) and confining Ouédraogo to the brig for two years. Upon his release Ouédraogo mostly kept out of politics and devoted his time to establishing a medical practice. He only returned to the public sphere in the 2010s to mediate several national political disputes. This article has passed GA and a WikiProject Military history A-class review. There's not a lot of material about this guy, but a constructive FA review could make a dent in our systemic bias problem. And I do think that if this passed FA, it would be the first WikiProject Burkina Faso article to have ever done so. -Indy beetle (talk) 16:26, 3 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - any possibility of an image to illustrate? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:30, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Nikkimaria: As I explained at the GA nomination, I have found no free use photos of the subject (and none of Zerbo, Sankara, and his colleagues either) and the fact that he is still alive means I'd be unable to fulfill the fair use criteria. -Indy beetle (talk) 05:05, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Support - lack of media in a potential piece of featured content is a problem. Typically, FA candidates have several images spread throughout them, but this one has zero. The images do not have to be of Ouédraogo or the other people mentioned in the article. It could be something as simple as a map of Burkina Faso or the flag of the Republic of Upper Volta (that tiny image of it in the infobox doesn't count). I want to see at least one appropriately licensed image added to this article, and then I will support it. Jackdude101 talk cont 17:38, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Dank[edit]

  • "He attended Mogho Naba Kougri's funeral in December and placed a wreath at the Mossi leader's coffin, apparently convinced that in order to achieve success he would have to respect the traditional power structures valued by the public.": I think reviewers might have problems with this sentence, possibly with its length, or possibly with the lack of attribution for the opinion word "apparently".
  • "He lives next to the clinic and serves between 400 and 500 patients a month.", "He is the president of the Fédération des Associations Professionnelles de la Santé Privée": WP:DATED is tricky. These two probably need a (single) "as of"; other kinds of present-tense statements might not need it.
  • Support on prose per my standard disclaimer. Well done. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 14:06, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • Changed the opinion to a direct quote from the book and moved it to a footnote.
    • Done.
    • Thanks for the review.

-Indy beetle (talk) 04:01, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sources review[edit]

  • Ref 31 is currently returning "unable to connect". Please test – the fault might be temporary.
    • Link repaired.
  • Refs 34 and 35: could you clarify publisher details? As far as I know, the Weblogy group is a web facilitator and designer rather than a news publisher.
    • It would appear that you are correct, but their own website describes them as "publishers" and they are shown as the copyright holders at the bottom of each news site. The former article is attributed to aOuaga.com (presumably a web staff writer) and the AFP is credited with writing the latter report (which I've added under the author= parameter). I cannot find any more details beyond that. -Indy beetle (talk) 03:17, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Apart from these issues, the sources appear to be in good order and of appropriate quality and reliability. Brianboulton (talk) 23:11, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Cas Liber[edit]

Reading now and making straightforward copyedits as I go. Please revert if I accidentally change the meaning. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:39, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

and was quickly regarded by the leftist members of the CSP as "conservative" and "pro-French". - I'd dequote here. write "french sympathies/aligned with France" or something.
  • Revised as "regarded by the leftist members of the CSP as conservative and sympathetic to policies of France." -Indy beetle (talk) 00:48, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise no gross prose issues and strikes me as comprehensive. However, I am a neophyte in the topic area...Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:46, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Dudley[edit]

  • Support. I commented at A-Class, where my comments were dealt with. Dudley Miles (talk) 16:48, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose on 1a, 1b and 1c: I'm recusing as coordinator on this one as there are a few issues. I'm a little concerned by the sourcing and prose. Here are a few examples, but I think this needs a closer look by a few editors and more work is required.

  • I looked at ref 2, which is in French, and ran it through Google translate. It looks a little similar to me. I wonder do we need a little more rephrasing to be on the safe side. I don't know if the main editor(s) used the original French or the electronically translated version, but the similarities need looking at. At the very least, I think a few more editors need to take a look at this.
  • Article: "He began his education at the École Primaire Catholique de Bam, later attending the minor seminary of Pabré before completing his secondary education at the Lycée de Philippe-Zinda-Kaboré de Ouagadougou"
  • Original: "Jean-Baptiste Ouedraogo began his studies at the Bam Catholic Primary School. He then attended the small seminary of Pabré before joining the high school Philippe-Zinda-Kaboré of Ouagadougou"
  • Article: "He studied medicine at the University of Abidjan and the School of Naval Medicine in Bordeaux"
  • Original: "He studied medicine at the University of Abidjan (Ivory Coast), then at the School of Naval Health of Bordeaux"
  • Article: "He then took courses at the University of Strasbourg,[5] specializing in paediatrics"
  • Original: "before specializing in pediatrics and in childcare in Strasbourg (France)"
  • Article: "From 1976 to 1977 Ouédraogo managed the paediatrics department at the Hôpital Yalgado-Ouédraogo de Ouagadougou"
  • Original: "From 1976 to 1977, he was in charge of the pediatric department of the Yalgado-Ouédraogo Hospital in Ouagadougou"
  • I notice that the "Sub-Saharan Africa Report" which mentions his time as an intern also has a little more, including someone discussing working with him. There's also a little more about his wife.
    • @Sarastro1: I'm not sure what you mean about his wife that would be relevant for inclusion. As for his work as an intern, I believe that was the supervising doctor who was describing his qualities as a person, namely "quiet" and "pragmatic", to a press which was eager to get an idea of what the new president of Upper Volta was going to be like. I think the quote included from the Minister of Justice already encapsulates that. -Indy beetle (talk) 18:40, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not quite sure that the same reference supports "Ouédraogo was commissioned as a second lieutenant and medic into the Upper Voltan Army in October 1972" as it states "he was a medical second lieutenant in the Voltan army from October 1972"; what is a medical second lieutenant? This does make me question whether we have all the available information from the sources.
    • "Medical second lieutenant" (from the original French) seems to be a unique term found in these sources. "Médicin-commandant" is also unique though, as the Quarterly Economic Review states, it's a rank equivalent to that of major (and major and commandant are already usually equivalent ranks, simply the latter is preferred by the francophone world). This source [2] describes Ouédraogo as a major in the army medical corps. Some sources call him a "medical major" or "surgeon major". I suppose we could say "medical second lieutenant" as odd as it is. I for one didn't think it was a misinterpretation to call him a medic and second lieutenant separately. As for "whether we have all the available information from the sources", I welcome you to examine all that I have used and introduce any more you might have access too. I just added some info from a source that was republished last month, but I'm highly confident that there is little else out there to be found. -Indy beetle (talk) 18:40, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The prose requires a little work. I think we descend into WP:PROSELINE and have repetitive sentence structures. Here's a sample from the "Military Career and Presidency" first paragraph (proseline and repetitive structures bolded):
  • "Unlike Sankara, he lacked political experience and popular support, and was quickly regarded by the leftist members of the CSP as conservative and sympathetic to policies of France. Ouédraogo thought of his opponents as "hard-core Marxists" and maintained that he was a "liberal and sincere democrat".[2] On 21 November he declared that the CSP would restore a constitutional, civilian regime in two years time.[9] Five days later the CSP installed a formal government."
      • I'll note that in the past reviewers have given more leeway to rewriting to avoid copyright problems or PROSELINE issues when the information presented is already limited in its original form and if further revision could create a gap between the substance of the text we write and the substance of the original source. -Indy beetle (talk) 18:40, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just to note that just addressing these points here would not make me strike the oppose yet, for these are only examples. I believe the whole article needs to be looked at. Sarastro (talk) 13:08, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Indy beetle: Any movement on addressing Sarastro's opposition? If we don't have some progress in the next few days, this will be archived. --Laser brain (talk) 00:18, 24 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Laser brain: I responded to Sarastro1's comments here and pinged them, but they never responded as to what effect my explanations had on their consideration of the article's suitability for FA status. -Indy beetle (talk) 00:21, 24 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the delay, I've been horrendously busy IRL. I'm afraid my oppose stands as the nominator, while responding to my comments, does not seem to have addressed them. "Past reviewers have given more leeway to rewriting to avoid copyright problems or PROSELINE issues" does not fill me with confidence, nor does it do anything about the actual issues, which we cannot just brush under the carpet for a FA. Sarastro (talk) 20:28, 28 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note[edit]

Wanted to hear Sarastro's response before taking any action. While I appreciate there was a delay there, the nom had still been open almost two months when the initial opposition was recorded, and an editor raises such points at that stage of a review then I think we have an issue. I plan to archive this and ask that the concerns be looked at outside the FAC process, and suggest pinging Sarastro on the article talk page for an informal check before re-nominating after the usual two-week waiting period. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:44, 29 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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