Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 March 22

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March 22

Qumash

Please check my article. Draft:Qumash Bekejan (talk) 07:40, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

This does not look to be anywhere near meeting the general notability guideline. Also, are you involved with this in some way?--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 08:03, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Bekejan, if this "humorous information project" is, as you say, not commercial, is it charitable or what? -- Hoary (talk) 08:57, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Abusive comment left in edit notes

Hi. There's an issue with recent edits to the Cotham School wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cotham_School&action=history. A user has deleted a paragraph on the page (which isn't the issue) and has left an abusive comment in the edits. You can see that the abusive comment was their main goal because they made the edit, then reverted it, then made it again because they'd made a typo in their original edit comment (fowl > foul). I don't know who inserted the original paragraph, don't know who deleted it, don't know if it was correct or not. But surely editors aren't allowed to leave derogatory comments on the edit history? BPstokelodge (talk) 09:05, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

I've seen far worse derogatory comments than that. It's actually pretty mild. It is not uncommon for a user to repeat an edit to leave or correct an edit summary. 331dot (talk) 09:07, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@BPstokelodge Your own contributions show that you have never added an edit summary. Please do so, since these help explain to other editors why you have made an addition or removal. See WP:EDITSUMMARY. I agree with 331dot that the edit summaries in question were not worth worrying about. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:06, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Not Referenced Fake Story / Fabricated Characters ?

The isbn is faked not linking.

Yuen_Kay-shan

Although representations are possible and complimentary.. Heartmaybe (talk) 12:00, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Heartmaybe The only ISBN I can see on that article's references is 1892515032 which is in Google books. Can you clarify what you think is the problem with this? Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:57, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Apologies, after two clicks the web page of the google book loaded Heartmaybe (talk) 16:55, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia Article Section Heading "Capitalisation"

Hello! Sorry to bother you guys! I have checked the "frenquently Asked Questions" section, but I can only seem to find the general article on "Capitalisation", i.e. Capitalization

I need a link that I can quote for an editor's page indicating how section titles in Wikipedia articles should be capitalised. I have seen a number of people assert that only the first word of a section title should begin with a capital, i.e. "===Longest connections strategy===", and not ""===Longest Connections Strategy==="". However, I have never been able to pin-point the actual Wikipedia policy which states that this rule exists. This "Capitalisation" issue has been raised in a Wikipedia article talk forum that I am working on at the moment [1]. I told them I would ask this "help desk" forum for a link to the relevent policy.

Can you please help us? SMargan (talk) 12:10, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

SMargan, MOS:SECTIONCAPS. Best, — Usedtobecool ☎️ 12:15, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@SMargan The easiest way to find such advice in the search system is to prefix your search term with "WP:" so that the system will look in the correct namespace. Hence instead of reaching Capitalization in article space you would have reached WP:Capitalization where the advice you needed is located. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:49, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the assistance that both of you have given me. It has been invaluable.SMargan (talk) 13:25, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

fake disambiguation page

Nancy (given name) is a fake disambiguation page. If its an article about the name we probably shouldn't be listing everyone with that name, right? Those belong in Nancy#People (if they belong anywhere, a link that lists all articles starting with Nancy would make more sense). Polygnotus (talk) 13:53, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Same problem over at Anna_(name)#People. Polygnotus (talk) 13:54, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Polygnotus I think that both the articles are supposed to be WP:PEOPLELISTs, where each has a section at the top giving some background about the use of the name. Nancy is a disambiguation page and includes lots of topics which are not given names of people, e.g. Nancy, France and Jean-Luc Nancy, where the name is a surname, not a given name. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:18, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

New Entry for Photographer Susan Wood

Hello. Susan Wood is a published photographer, about to turn 92. Here's her author page on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B07KPLVCR6/about There are many more references. Who would be an appropriate person to add her information to wikipedia? Thank you so much. Margery Margie NYC (talk) 14:34, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Here is a good source. Polygnotus (talk) 14:46, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Here is another. Polygnotus (talk) 14:47, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Here. Polygnotus (talk) 14:57, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

And here. I believe she meets WP:GNG. Polygnotus (talk) 14:48, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi Margie NYC and welcome. You could ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red. Before writing an article it is necessary to check that the subject is Wikipedia:Notable, which usually means finding coverage in reliable sources which are independent of the subject. The links above are a good start. TSventon (talk) 14:57, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

They have a photographers section too, (Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Photographers,) so you can add her to the list there, and include some of the sources to help out whoever wants to make the page. Shaws username . talk . 14:59, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

There used to be a draft but it was deleted. I have asked if it can be undeleted. Polygnotus (talk) 15:00, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

You are so helpful. Thank you so much. I believe she qualifies as Wikipedia:Notable. I will add her to the photographer's list, and add sources. If the draft can be undeleted, that would be great. Then additions/corrections can start to be added. I really appreciate your help! Margie NYC (talk) 15:29, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi. This is my first time adding anything to Wikipedia. I added Susan Wood to the American Photographers section of Women in Red, but it turned blue, not red, so I hope I don't get booted out. Any other tips are so appreciated! Margie NYC (talk) 15:58, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

I created the article here Susan Wood (photographer) you are free to expand and improve it. Theroadislong (talk) 16:24, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Wonderful!!! Thank you so much!! Margie NYC (talk) 16:26, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Idealogical Bias?

When reading some articles, it is very clear there is an idealogical, most specifically a political, bias. Wiki says that there is no centralized editing, but who has the final say in editing? If I wanted to edit someone else's page to be more 'fair' in its political bias, I imagine someone will come along behind me and reverse my edit, resulting in a never-ending edit war. How is this handled? I believe Wiki pages should be honest and fair in their content so as to not rewrite or spin history. I can cite some examples of the idealogical/political bias if needed. 70.116.118.94 (talk) 15:09, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Please cite some examples. We handle this by talking a lot and sometimes requesting input from the wider community. Also see User:Guy Macon/Yes. We are biased.. Polygnotus (talk) 15:11, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

i resent the implicit bias inherent in your statement in that it encompasses only this point in space time and utterly omits to encompass other continuities based on alternate physical laws based upon ypotehtical dimensions which may or may not exist. Sm8900 (talk) 16:03, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Umm, "edit someone else's page"? One's user page sort of belongs to the associated user, with limits. But article pages don't belong to anyone, so it doesn't mean anything to write "Edit someone else's page". Jc3s5h (talk) 15:18, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

No-one has "the final say" on any article. Every article is in a sense unfinished, because more relevant information might emerge about its subject; its contents is agreed and if appropriate modified by ongoing processes of applying the bold, revert, discuss cycle and reaching consensus, which can be used to correct any noticed bias.

Note, however, that idealogical and political biases are subjective, so people with different worldviews can sincerely disagree about them. Generally, Wikipedia strives to present every subject using a neutral point of view, and aims for verifiability from reliable sources, not 'truth.' {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.241.39.117 (talk) 17:40, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

wikipedia has a clear bias in favor of the overriding views which arise from the specific set of humans who reside in the world and have empircial data arising from it. Sm8900 (talk) 16:01, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Did you mean "ideological"? Polar Apposite (talk) 17:36, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

how to make a wiki page for someone?

I'm trying to make a wiki page for someone JDHILLMAN6262 (talk) 15:28, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

See Help:Your first article Polygnotus (talk) 15:29, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

And be aware that it won't be a "wiki page for someone"; arguably, there is no such thing. It will be an encyclopedia article about someone. And if it passes muster as an article here, virtually anybody will be able to come in and edit it. The edits might not be to your liking or to the liking of the subject of the article (supposing that the subject is still with us). But if the edits are relevant and well-supported in reliable sources, there won't be much either of you can do about it. Uporządnicki (talk) 15:06, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Userpage display title

Hello, Will My userpage display title work with Lower case letters? if it works give me an example! thanks 𝕸𝖆𝖑 𝕸𝖆𝖑𝖉𝖎𝖛𝖊 MAL MALDIVE (talk) 17:17, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@MAL MALDIVE No, I don't think so. I edited your Userpage in the displaytitle part to change it to "Mal Maldive" or "Mal maldive" or "mal maldive" and in each case on preview got an error message saying that this wouldn't work "as it is not equivalent to the actual title". The error message directed me to WP:DISPLAYTITLE. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:28, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Oh! Ok then. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 17:32, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@MAL MALDIVE: It's possible to get the same effect with text-transform: lowercase. This works: {{DISPLAYTITLE:<span style="color:#AAA9AD; font-weight:bold; font-family:Brush Script MT;">User:M<span style="text-transform: lowercase;">AL</span> M<span style="text-transform: lowercase;">ALDIVE</span></span>}}. Only use it in your own userspace and accept that you may miss pings if users try to type the username on your user page instead of copy-pasting it. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:51, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

oh ok MAL MALDIVE (talk) 18:26, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Citing a radio programme whose URL will only last for a short time

I need to cite a segment of a BBC World Service programme from 16 Mar 2024, which will only remain available via the Web for another 23 days. The programme is currently available at:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w172z37rvf2h7m5

How do I do this?

Thanks Misha Wolf (talk) 17:58, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Misha Wolf: Use {{Cite episode}}. It doesn't matter that the programme will eventually not be available, but you might do better to use the URL https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w172z37rvf2h7m5 -- Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:13, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Is there no way to preserve access to the audio? Do any of the archiving mechanisms enable one to do this?

Thanks again. Misha Wolf (talk) 22:31, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

I've now added the citation at the end of the 5th para of Jonathan Jacoby#Career. Please could someone tell me whether I got it right. Thanks!

PS: I'd still like to use a mechanism which makes the interview remain accessible, if such a mechanism is available. Misha Wolf (talk) 23:27, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

You can add an archive URL, like https://web.archive.org/web/20240316074330/https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w172z37rvf2h7m5 CodeTalker (talk) 01:56, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

@CodeTalker: - would that archive preserve the audio recording, or just the HTML page?--Gronk Oz (talk) 06:48, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

I think it preserves the audio, but I'm not positive. Comparing the HTML for the original page against the archived copy, I can see that the archive has rewritten some of the HTML and in particular, where the original refers to files on the BBC web site (like javascript files and font files), the archive refers to corresponding files on archive.org, which have presumably been copied from the BBC site. However after a quick scan, I haven't located exactly where the audio file is accessed, either by the original or the archived copy. Given that the archive has copied at least some of the original files linked to the HTML, I would guess that it has copied all of them, but I can't confirm that definitively. CodeTalker (talk) 07:08, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Clicking on the Play button of the archived web page at the Wayback Machine seems to result in an endless spinning circle and no sound. :( Misha Wolf (talk) 12:05, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Trying again, I'm managing to get some short snippets of sound, but the playback soon stops, with the message "This content doesn't seem to be working.". Misha Wolf (talk) 12:17, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Examining the network requests made when accessing the page, it looks to me like the recording is transferred in multiple pieces which are then put back together for playback. Presumably, the Wayback Machine doesn't know how to handle that. Rummskartoffel 15:34, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Misha Wolf (talk) 16:07, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Inclusion of presidents of an organization

It seems very common to have a listing of presidents or heads in the Wikipedia article about an organization. For example, National Organization for Women, John Birch Society, Argentine Olympic Committee, Football Federation of Belarus, Italian-American National Union, etc etc. Another user is insisting on removing a list of presidents that has been in an article for years, despite how common this seems to be. Is this covered by any guideline or manual of style? Counterfeit Purses (talk) 18:35, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

As always, the first question to ask is to what extent independent WP:RS consider it significant. That's how we determine the merits of including content in general. We don't have guidelines for applying standard practice to every specific question. That would be both unnecessary, and impossible. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:40, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@AndyTheGrump If I felt very strongly about the article in question, I'm sure I could find reliable sources that mention who the president is, but I doubt I could find significant coverage for the list as a whole, for this or almost any other article. It seems odd to me that these lists appear to be almost standard in articles about organizations but can be removed if anyone decides they don't like it. Counterfeit Purses (talk) 19:41, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

I see you have already began discussions on the article talk page. If such discussions can't reach a consensus, you could try some form of Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. What is unlikely to happen though is some sort of general agreement regarding whether articles on organisations must include a list of presidents. Wikipedia doesn't work like that, or at least, it isn't supposed to. We are supposed to base decisions regarding what content we include on how sources do it, and not on our own set of arbitrary rules. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:54, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

You can check Wikipedia:Lists for various guidance regarding lists although there are many other guidance that may be applicable to the discussion. I suggest not having the discussion in two places at the same time, plus the help desk is not an appropriate place to have content discussions, but rather guidance. Sincerely, Thinker78 (talk) 21:57, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Thinker78 @AndyTheGrump I'm really not trying to have a content discussion here. I thought there might be a manual of style for organizations or something like that. Thanks for your answers. Counterfeit Purses (talk) 22:19, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Redirect

I am trying to remove the page link redirect for 'verticalscope'. I work for VerticalScope and we are not owned by Torstar. I created a page for VerticalScope and removed the redirect link, but it appears they were undone right away. Can you assist please? Msalernovscope (talk) 18:49, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Msalernovscope, I recommend that you create a draft for verticalscope; and once you think it's fit for publication, you submot it for review. If a reviewer accepts it, it'll be their job to deal with the redirect you refer to. I also recommend that such a draft should give its readers some idea of what it is that verticalscope sells to its customers. Maproom (talk) 20:28, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Msalernovscope: One of your edit summaries says "verticalscope is not part of torstar anymore". please remember that we are as interested in history as current affairs. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:04, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Understood. I'm trying to make sure that people searching for VerticalScope don't end up on the torstar page. It's not currently relevant and is only historically relevant. Msalernovscope (talk) 21:56, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

To be frank, Wikipedia does not care whether people searching for something find only historical relevance. If VerticalScope meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability, then there could be an article about it; otherwise the redirect is appropriate.

Having said that: if you can find a reliable source that says that VerticalScope is no longer part of Torstar, you are welcome to make an edit request on Talk:Torstar recording that fact, and citing the source. Then at least the target of the redirection will clarify that this is no longer the case. ColinFine (talk) 22:15, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

how to edit/add info to Alexis M Herman's profile for accuracy.

the Alexis Herman profile box the article lists Kathryn O. Higgins as Deputy Secretary but omits Dr. Edward B. Montgomery who held the Deputy position 2000-2001. Higgins served 1997-1999 Curtainrriaw (talk) 19:28, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Curtainrriaw: Do you have a reliable source for that? If so, be bold! I've left some links, to guidance pages, on your talk page. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:01, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Article Issue

Hi, I wanted to ask something. I have an article that I want to upload but when I go to create it, it says that it has been deleted a number of times. The article is just a battle I wanted to add, and it is not anything bad. Shall I upload it anyway or not? TakuyaYagami (talk) 19:33, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

TakuyaYagami this would depend on the article in question. An article may have been deleted for reasons unrelated to notability. What article are you trying to create? If you are unsure whether the topic should be included in English Wikipedia, you can start it as a draft. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 20:13, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I just checked, and it got deleted twice due to G5. Can i still try to make an article on it or not? I don't want to get in any trouble. Thanks. TakuyaYagami (talk) 20:29, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@TakuyaYagami Yes, the deletion was because the article was created by a blocked user. However, you are a newcomer and I strongly suggest you begin by improving existing articles first to get to know how things work here. If you are determined to go ahead, please read H:YFA and WP:BACKWARD. Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:04, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thanks! TakuyaYagami (talk) 22:06, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia Simple English vs. Wikipedia the Free Encyclopedia

For some unknown reason, the Wikipedia page I created ended up on Wikipedia Simple English. When I tried making another User Page with a different User ID in Wikipedia the Free Encyclopedia, that entry was deleted by the editors. I tried several times but each time it got deleted. Do you think it is because I already have a User Page on Wikipedia Simple English? The content of my page is similar to many other Wikipedia pages I have viewed for my academic colleagues. Thank you for your help. MichaelPietrusewskyJr (talk) 20:45, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@MichaelPietrusewskyJr Your global contributions show only the one edit here. I can only conclude that all your other edits have been removed by admins, including some you may have made on the Simple English project. Rules do differ by language version but the principles will be the same. As the messages on your Talk Page states, the expectation for UserPages here is that they will comply with WP:UPYES. Some latitude may be given for long-term editors. Mike Turnbull (talk) 20:59, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

.... P.S. You do appear to exist on Wikidata, which is not unusual if you have published as an academic. Please do not try to create an autobiography, for the reasons explained at that link. Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:10, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@MichaelPietrusewskyJr Your user page here was deleted because it wasn't appropriate. I suggest you read the user page guidelines you have already been pointed to on your talk page. A user page is not an article, and should not be presented as if it is one. If your colleagues have actual Wikipedia articles written about them, that is (or should be) because they meet our notability standards, and cite the necessary independent sourcing. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:02, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@MichaelPietrusewskyJr: Special:CentralAuth/MichaelPietrusewskyJr shows your account only has edits here at the English Wikipedia. Maybe Special:CentralAuth/MichaelPietrusewsky without "Jr" at the end is another account by you. It has edits at the Simple English Wikipedia, creating a page at simple:User:MichaelPietrusewsky. See simple:Wikipedia:User page for their guideline about user pages which has differences from our Wikipedia:User pages. Edits at the Simple English Wikipedia are unlikely to affect the treatment of your edits here. If you are trying to create an autobiography in our encyclopedia and not a user page for your account then see Wikipedia:Autobiography. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:25, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Question about removing false accusations

(refactored from Wikipedia talk:Administrative action review)

How to delete false accusations against any sexual activity or any remarks. 51.52.167.18 (talk) 21:58, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

It's hard to answer you clearly, because you do not give any details (though I understand that there may be good reasons for this).

If there is a problem with an article about you or involving you, please see WP:ABOUTYOU.

If there is information which you think is wrong please open a discussion on the talk page of the relevant article.

If there is information which you think might be harmful or dangerous to somebody, please email the Oversight team: see WP:OVERSIGHT. ColinFine (talk) 22:22, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

False accusations

Sexual abuse of a minor ! 51.52.167.18 (talk) 22:21, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

See my reply just above.

Note that my answer is all about material in Wikipedia. If your question is not about Wikipedia, then we cannot help here. - ColinFine (talk) 22:23, 22 March 2024 (UTC)