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October 1

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October 1, 2024 (2024-10-01) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Mark Rutte installed as Secretary General of NATO

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Proposed image
Article: Mark Rutte (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte (pictured) is installed as the Secretary General of NATO, succeeding Jens Stoltenberg (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Mark Rutte (pictured) succeeds Jens Stoltenberg as Secretary General of NATO
News source(s): Associated Press
Credits:

Article updated

US port strike

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Article: 2024 United States port strike (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Dockworkers strike at East and Gulf Coast ports in the United States (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ 45,000 ILA dockworkers go on strike at East Coast and Gulf Coast ports in the United States.
Alternative blurb II: ​ 45,000 dockworkers of the International Longshoremen's Association strike across United States Gulf and East Coast ports.
Alternative blurb III: ​ The ILA and USMX negotiate to suspend a three-day labour strike at US Gulf and East Coast ports by over 45,000 dockworkers.
News source(s): (initial CNBC report), (post-strike Reuters report)
Credits:

This may impact supply and inflation and is newsworthy. Interstellarity (talk) 21:04, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose - this may not last long. And hasn't exactly been getting anything other than local reporting. What other strikes have we ITN'ed? I'd have thought it would have had to be more of a general strike, or something unusual like the 1981 US Air Traffic Controllers strike, when they simply fired all the strikers. If we ITNed all similar strikes, we'd have a few a month just for France! :) Nfitz (talk) 21:31, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment US East Coast / Gulf ports process close to half of the value of imports coming into the USA, and if I'm not mistaken, the US is the biggest importer on the planet. Also, I believe we blurbed the 2023 SAG-AFTRA strike which was entertainment workers, not people who oversaw trade. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:46, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, the 2023 SAG-AFTRA strike was blurbed in July 2023: see the posted blurb page. There was also coincidentally a blurb for a large-scale strike in France earlier that month. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Purely by the numbers, a French strike does not have the same economic impact as one that impacts the entire East and Gulf Coast ports, which as noted process about half of all imports/exports. IF this lasts long (more than a few days), it could be one of the largest strikes in decades. Wqwt (talk) 22:16, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If this lasts long, then it can be reposted. Obviously strikes in bigger countries have bigger local impacts. That doesn't make it ITN. Surely the relative impact of the Canadian rail strike (which shut down virtually the entire rail network) was bigger - but not even nominated. Nfitz (talk) 16:04, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The Canadian rail strike was nominated. It was mainly opposed due to article quality issues & also b/c the strike ended too quickly. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 18:20, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – From the Impact section of the article, we can see the massive effects this strike has. First strike of this sort in nearly fifty years. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 21:44, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There have been many, many, dockworkers strikes. It isn't even the first one this week - Montreal. The only difference is the rest of us don't rush here as fast as we can for local news. Nfitz (talk) 21:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for a while to see if this is resolved very quickly (i.e. under 24 hours), but otherwise strong support. (argument moved below). GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:52, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It looks like there isn't going to be a resolution to this anytime soon and the fact this story has dropped off the front pages of many MSM outlets has me suspicious. Blurb it! Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:53, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: John Amos

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Article: John Amos (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Amos passed 21 August 2024; it was announced 1 October 2024. Staraction (talk | contribs) 19:42, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose large chunks of article are uncited. Scuba 20:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I am shocked to see that they didn't let public know before 40 days passed. BilboBeggins (talk) 21:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose orange tagged and many cn tags. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 14:09, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Iran strikes Israel

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Article: October 2024 Iranian strikes against Israel (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Iran launches strikes against Israel following Israel's ground invasion of Lebanon. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Iran launches a missile attack against Israel.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Iran launches a missile attack against Israel in retaliation for the assassinations of Hezbollah and Hamas leaders Hassan Nasrallah and Ismail Haniyeh, and of Iranian general Abbas Nilforoushan.
News source(s): WaPo CNN
Credits:

Early, but could have crucial consequences in the conflict - RockinJack18 17:13, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Altblurb1 until Iran's attack is directly connected to the invasion of Lebanon. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 17:17, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I'm sure this was just a spur of the moment thing. Scuba 02:41, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This was a major, highly newsworthy attack that is important enough to have its own entry. Jerdle (talk) 18:01, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I know it's tempting to bundle together the crazy events in the last 2 days but I think this is a notable development on its own. A nuclear-armed state has been directly bombarded by a foreign nation. Tel Aviv and Jerusalem have had hundreds of missile strikes, the entire country is in lockdown, by far the biggest confrontation between Israel and Iran ever. This will have major ramifications for the future of the conflict. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:16, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I feel there's significant exaggeration in your statement User:PrecariousWorlds. It's not the "biggest confrontation between Israel and Iran ever". With less than 200 missiles fired, it's not even the biggest confrontation this year - as there was over 300 in April 2024. Also, with less than 200 missiles fired, what sourcing are you using for the "hundreds of missile strikes"? Surely the majority of the missiles were shot down, and didn't strike. Can you provide some kind of back-up for your comment, or edit it? Thanks, Nfitz (talk) 20:37, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
US Major general Pat Ryder says the attack was at least twice as big as in April ( ). Most were intercepted but many struck and caused significant damage in suburbs and in military bases. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:55, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your words are hundreds. Clearly Ryder is full of it, according to Israeli and Iranian claims. Nfitz (talk) 16:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait/Oppose until we see if this has wider ramifications. Iran launched missiles at Israel just this year, in April, as a response to Israel killing five members of Iran’s revolutionary guards, but there was no larger effects. The middle east is a powder keg right now, and we should not be posting every salvo that occurs between all these nations. Natg 19 (talk) 18:25, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. a whole country waiting for missiles coming from +1000miles away to fall on its head, in what might spark a (choose your superlative / descriptor) war, is important enough. TaBaZzz (talk) 18:51, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is a big breaking news live coverage on every major news network around the world. It should be "Alternative blurb" because blurb is original research that is probably wrong. Tradediatalk 19:09, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Covered in ongoing. Kcmastrpc (talk) 19:11, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb. We shouldn't try to read tea leaves about why Iran did this, nor should be broadcast their explanations. The article will cover all that. What's important to cover in the blurb is what happened. Hundreds of ballistic missiles were fired. Add casualty figures if there were any, as they become available, because we customarily include them. Jehochman Talk 19:33, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment reports say most of the missiles were shot down, and the few that landed did little damage with maybe perhaps one casualty. This would make this similar to the previous missile strike this year. It is probably better to try to keep it to one facet of this conflict, being the lebanon invasion. Masem (t) 19:39, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support original blurb unless there is a separate posting for the Lebanon invasion. Two for one. Bitspectator ⛩️ 19:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question Is the consensus that this nomination and the below nomination regarding the Israel invasion of Lebanon from September 30th are mutually exclusive? On the one hand, the two events are directly connected and closely related, so it seems logical to group them in a blurb. But on the other hand, this attack by Iran has been in the works for a while - is it an oversimplification to imply causation by saying "After Israel does x, Iran does y"? In any event, support some blurb being posted. The admin who reviews this probably should assess and decide on the nomination for the invasion at the same time. FlipandFlopped ツ 19:45, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the original blurb here with both launches strikesand Israel's ground invasion of Lebanon to be bolded. We can use one blurb to document two very related events.VR (Please ping on reply) 19:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Vice regent Not true, the IRGC said it was for the assassinations Personisinsterest (talk) 22:49, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose covered by ongoing.
Noah, BSBATalk 19:47, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Observation 1: No one (of the general reader public, to a first approximation) notices/sees the "ongoing" items down there. See banner blindness. Might as well just remove the individual entries, just retain the "Ongoing events" link, enlarge text size a bit. Move all the "here are various Major Global Events" stuff to the top of that page. There, frees up space in the already crowded ITN box (this helps in making individual items stand out more). (Wikimedia really needs to hire a professional UI designer. The Right Thing to do would be for them to make suggestions on improvements, and work on things requested by the projects.)
Observation 2: Assume waaaaay less general background & world events knowledge of a general audience (the audience Wikipedia is supposed to be written towards). Lowest common denominator. What % of the total English-as-a-first-language population do you estimate would be able to without looking up anything, correctly answer: Name a country that Hezbollah has something to do with? Which countries are immediately adjacent to Israel? Okay now do total world English speakers. Those things being necessary prerequisite knowledge, to know that for some kind of News related to "Israel" "Iran" "Lebanon", you might want to go looking under "Israel—Hezbollah war". --Slowking Man (talk) 20:19, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
on the ·second point, we don't assume readers are dumb as rocks and there is some degree of WP:CIR for readers, it's why we normally do not link country or major city names unless we are specifically talking about that as a geographic place, because we assume that readers have a decent knowledge of world geography. Masem (t) 20:33, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, it's hard to keep track of axis of the three H-terrorist groups, and what they currently occupy, for a casual reader. I think a simple "Israeli wars" or "Fighting in the Middle East" might cover it better. Nfitz (talk) 20:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have some possibly bad news for you about the median level of geography knowledge of the general public. (Yes that's the right link though the website might look unexpected, they apparently commissioned the survey.) Hmm wonder what kind of results you'd get from a survey of one of the top 5 countries here after the US (the total # of which are in Europe: 0) Slowking Man (talk) 01:59, 2 October 2024 (UTC) (Clarifying addendum: top 5 by total # of en speakers --Slowking Man (talk) 04:36, 2 October 2024 (UTC))[reply]

(Posted) Thai school bus crash

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Proposed image
Article: 2024 Lam Luk Ka bus crash (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Twenty schoolchildren and three others are killed in a bus crash (pictured) in Pathum Thani, Thailand (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A school bus crashes (pictured) in Pathum Thani, Thailand, leaving 20 school children and 3 others dead
Alternative blurb II: ​ A school bus crashes and burns (pictured) in Pathum Thani, Thailand, leaving 22 school children and 3 teachers dead.
News source(s): Reuters, BBC, Bangkok Post
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Bus carrying school children crashes and catches fire in Thailand, leaving 20 children and 3 other dead. Significant both in term of number of fatalities and that of the fact that most of which are children. PS Feel free to edit the blurb as appropriate. I'm not sure about its writing style. --Chainwit. (talk) 16:11, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that image AI generated? See the hose on the right disappearing and the nearly unintelligible Mercedes-Benz written in English. That, or this image was taken at a low resolution and upscaled, keeping the sparse details. Either way, I don't believe this image is a good fit for ITN. Neutral on the blurb, seems to be a relatively major safety incident more than it is as a loss of life, as the article states that over 20,000 traffic fatalities are reported yearly in Thailand. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 16:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Image is not AI generated I can confirm. It just happen so to be a screenshot from a low-res live stream on YouTube. And yes, the bus indeed bears a Mercedes logo. -- Chainwit. (talk) 17:05, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose The loss of life is horrific. However we almost never post traffic accidents, even really bad ones. And as GeorgeMemulous noted, Thailand has a bad reputation for traffic safety. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:03, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose a tragic accident, but I don't think this will any sort of long term impact or effect. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:31, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose, tragic but ultimately routine news. For anyone curious, on the livestream, we can see that there's a twist and fold in the hose making it flatter at one angle, and giving the impression that it's disappearing into the ground (and reappearing), especially with the low resolution. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 18:52, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support Sigh... with respect, I find myself once again needing to correct the record and point out a double standard in relation to a bus crash which occurs outside of the western world. In March of this year, after 2024 Mmamatlakala bus crash was nominated, there was strong opposition with many claiming that we do not post "routine bus crashes" (similar to what is happening here). At that time, I pointed out that, quite contrary to those claiming we never post automobile accidents, we had actually in fact posted both the Carberry highway collision and Humboldt Broncos bus crash with minimal, if any, opposition. To post those accidents from the Western world but not one with more casualties from a non-western country, would leave ITN readers with the impression that white bus crash victims dying is notable where African or Asian bus crashes are not. In the end, the 2024 Mmamatlakala bus crash was posted to ITN. For consistency and to avoid systemic bias, that precedent should be upheld. This is a devastating event for Thailand and it is being widely reported by global news outlets and there is no reason to break from the precedent we set earlier this year. FlipandFlopped ツ 19:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I understand your position, but in my opinion, the Carberry bus crash would get an oppose vote from me. Of the four mentioned, I'd say the Humboldt Broncos bus crash and 2024 Mmamatlakala bus crash are the only ones that would deserve a blurb, given the former having important and notable passengers killed and the latter having a very high death toll of one identifiable group. That being said, Oppose the 2024 Thai bus crash until if and when a major new development occurs. If all is said and done, it'll stay oppose. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Honestly, I wouldn't have supported posting any of these bus crashes. We can always point at previous times we did something to call it a precedent, but it means we never get to actually ask ourselves whether we should've actually be doing it to begin with. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 10:51, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not interesting to our readers. Tradediatalk 20:08, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    this is not a forum to discuss if articles are interesting but rather to post articles that are in the news ( WP:ITNPURPOSE ) so no offense but that argument is not valid (keep your oppose vote though not invalidating that!) Ion.want.uu (talk) 01:06, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose per above. Absolutely tragic, but limited impact and likely to have a limited legacy. The Kip (contribs) 00:44, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support event is significant due to high fatality rate and the circumstance of it being children. Being "not interesting" to readers just because it didn't occur in the Western world shouldn't be any reason to oppose and doesn't diminish its significance and impact. Happily888 (talk) 01:08, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is the type of event article that at the present time, it is not clear if it has the enduring coverage that we'd expect for event articles, as is the case for most road traffic accidents, even with the large toll. This is the trouble that we have overall with keeping the encyclopedia to covering news topics that are appropriate for an encyclopedia, with a long tail and influence elsewhere, and not for any current event that gets a burst of news coverage (even if worldwide). Maybe there is some long tail of a story here, but its definitely not obvious, and until it is, we really shouldn't even have an article on it (that's more what Wikinews is for). --Masem (t) 04:01, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment A quick update here, investigations found the bus to have been illegally modified with 10 gas tanks fitted into it. It "likely would" cause a stricter reform in term of bus regulation in Thailand, which IMO makes the incidence significant in term of a lasting effect? (Again with another "?") --Chainwit. (talk) 08:31, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  1. It was a coach rather than a school bus, having been hired for an outing
  2. It was about 50 years old and been extensively modded, being converted from an Isuzu to a Mercedes – don't ask me how
  3. Such incidents are common in Thailand which has a very high rate of traffic accidents – see List of countries by traffic-related death rate
Andrew🐉(talk) 22:06, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support without the image, we can make do without the low-res quality. There are updates in the article which indicate a move for stronger regulation (albeit a small start); suspension of the bus operator as a business; seizing of their other illegally modded bus inventory. – robertsky (talk) 03:03, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Accidents are posted - period. I see zero reason this does not meet ITN criteria, and the mere fact it's a "tragic accident" or only is impactful in one country is not a reason to exclude it. I do, however, agree with the others that the image is less than ideal and would prefer this not be an image post if a better one is not found. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | me | talk to me! 03:09, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Per nom et al. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:12, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Numerically, it's almost even. I'm guided here by many editors expressing "weak opposes" and one oppose vote that had to be neglected for a non-policy based rationale. Schwede66 19:19, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Jimmy Carter turns 100

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Good faith nom, however consensus to post will not develop. Wishing Mr. Carter joy and many (more) years. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:57, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Already on MainPage under SA/OTD. --PFHLai (talk) 22:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Jimmy Carter (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former U.S. president Jimmy Carter turns 100, the first U.S. president to do so. (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post, The Hill, USA Today, Al Jazeera, BBC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: A milestone for a record-holder. Carter is the oldest living U.S. president, the longest-lived president in U.S. history, the president who has lived longest after their presidency ended, and the first to reach the age of 100.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Inauguration of Claudia Sheinbaum

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(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
WP:SNOW, especially given her election was posted when it happened. The Kip (contribs) 17:21, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Claudia Sheinbaum (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Claudia Sheinbaum (pictured) is inaugurated as the 66th President of Mexico, becoming the first woman to ever hold the office. (Post)
News source(s): NPR, NBC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: It's the first time a woman has ever held the presidency in Mexico, also being particularly groundbreaking as the first woman ever elected to be head of state in one of the three major North American countries
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) New Prime Minister of Japan

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Proposed image
Articles: Shigeru Ishiba (talk · history · tag) and 2024 Liberal Democratic Party (Japan) presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Shigeru Ishiba (pictured) becomes the Prime Minister of Japan, succeeding Fumio Kishida. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Shigeru Ishiba (pictured) becomes the Prime Minister of Japan, after winning the Japanese Liberal Democratic Party leadership election.
Alternative blurb II: ​ After winning the Liberal Democratic Party leadership election, Shigeru Ishiba (pictured) becomes the Prime Minister of Japan, succeeding Fumio Kishida.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Shigeru Ishiba (pictured) succeeds Fumio Kishida as the Prime Minister of Japan, after winning the Liberal Democratic Party leadership election.
News source(s): NHK, Japan Today, Reuters
Credits:

One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Shigeru Ishiba has officially been accepted as the 102nd Prime Minister of Japan by the Diet. However, the article still needs some work done. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 05:15, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That nomination was closed with consensus to wait till inauguration. Abcmaxx (talk) 18:08, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose Election article is good sourcing wise, but the background info is lacking info between 9/11 to 9/27 and that's a huge/crucial part of the election coverage. Ishiba's article also has a few cn tags, given the overall improved state of the article. Support Expanded the LDP article and addressed cn tags on Ishiba's article. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:36, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per ITN/R Scuba 16:25, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
amended as ITN/R. Abcmaxx (talk) 18:08, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support because it's a new head of state and ITN/R. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 23:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JohnAdams1800, if something is ITN/R, then the only matter to comment on is whether article quality is up to scratch. Schwede66 23:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To clarify, he's not head of state but head of government, Japan is a constitutional monarchy, with Naruhito as head of state. AusLondonder (talk) 20:59, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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