Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 201
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Rotten tomatoes
![](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Tomato_sandwich_sliced.jpg/220px-Tomato_sandwich_sliced.jpg)
- ... that many enthusiasts say that a good tomato sandwich is so messy, it should be eaten over the kitchen sink?
The opening to this triggered my weasel watch.
Looking at the nomination, this started with a more definite hook, "... that the best tomato sandwiches are so messy they may need to be eaten over the kitchen sink?" Someone decided that we couldn't say this in Wikipedia's voice because it's not actually a definite fact; it's just an opinion. Instead of finding an actual definite fact, a weasel was found to introduce the debatable opinion. But who are these enthusiasts and are they notable or reliable?
You see, every time I see this weasel wording, I imagine it to be said in the voice of Jeremy Clarkson who would always introduce The Stig like this. Here's a compilation of "Some say..." examples. Delivering absurd facts in this way is a good joke but that's not what we're about, is it?
![](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Bondiola_Sandwich_with_fixings.jpg/220px-Bondiola_Sandwich_with_fixings.jpg)
Andrew🐉(talk) 15:45, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Pinging the involved, @Valereee, CurryTime7-24, and Theleekycauldron: Understand your point. Not sure if it is a weasel but it is probably true of any sandwich. When I saw the article I thought back to my own sandwich article with the hook Did you know... that the bondiola sandwich (example pictured) is a popular street food in Argentina? I enjoyed the tomato sandwich article but I see your point about who the "enthusiasts" are. Myself, I am a sandwich enthusiast but I would need more than just tomato to satiate myself. Bruxton (talk) 17:55, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Anybody who has ever grown tomatoes of their own will understand that a tomato sandwich is a waste of perfectly good bread and mayo. Nothing beats a good vine-ripened tomato, still warm from the sun, eaten just as it is, with the juice dribbling down your shirt. You want some heirloom variety, not the modern hybrids, genetically engineered to have smooth skin and a spherical shape, strong enough to stand up to bouncing around in a truck for a couple of days, and a flavor more akin to cardboard than anything else.
- An acceptable variation is thickly slabbed, with a slice of mozzarella on top (the good stuff, freshly made by the deli, not that horrible crap that comes wrapped in plastic), topped with a fresh basil leaf (also from your garden) and some balsamic vinegar. RoySmith (talk) 18:08, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- @RoySmith: Myself I spent 150 bucks on supplies and I grew $4.00 worth of tomatoes. They were good and I made a BLT (minus the L) last night. It was superb and not messy at all. I imagine the bacon held the tomato from slipping around in the mayo and the bread was toasted so it had some grit. Bruxton (talk) 18:32, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- @RoySmith, speaking as someone who has eaten the kind of tomato you're talking about both standing in the garden (I grew up carrying a salt shaker out to the garden where I'd eat tomatoes like apples) and sliced thick, slathered in Duke's, and sandwiched between two slices of soft white bread, leaning over the kitchen sink, I'm going to have to argue that it's a waste of bread and mayo. Two different experiences, both fab. Valereee (talk) 22:22, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- It's true that many enthusiasts make this recommendation. The article supports that assertion. I think the hook is fine as is. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 18:01, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Enthusiasts are, by definition, fanatically in favour of their enthusiasm. You can run anything as a supposed definite fact by using enthusiasts as your weasels. For example:
- ... that enthusiasts say that the Earth is flat?
- ... that enthusiasts say that Donald Trump won the 2020 United States presidential election?
- ... that enthusiasts say that people are really powerful aliens trapped in a human body?
- Andrew🐉(talk) 19:20, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Well not "anything", but yes, interesting statements by enthusiasts can make good hooks. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:28, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- We've got more such on the main page today: the "coolest person on the planet" and "the loneliest boy in the world" according to "journalists". All we're doing here is echoing clickbait and hype rather than presenting definite facts. And these don't stand close inspection. For example, the "coolest person on the planet" has soon been surpassed by another sports shooter who is even more of a brief sensation. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:19, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Well not "anything", but yes, interesting statements by enthusiasts can make good hooks. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:28, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Enthusiasts are, by definition, fanatically in favour of their enthusiasm. You can run anything as a supposed definite fact by using enthusiasts as your weasels. For example:
Not sure how to proceed
I started the review for the page Margaret Eliza Maltby around two weeks ago here: Template:Did you know nominations/Margaret Eliza Maltby. Since then, the user who made the nomination doesn't seem to have made any contributions, other than responding with "feel free to withdraw this nomination if it needs to be done quickly" two days ago. As this is my first DYK review, I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to proceed with this nomination. Should it be withdrawn, as concerns have already not been addressed in a timely manner, and the nominator hasn't expressed an intention of preparing the article in the nearby future? Or should I keep waiting until the nominator gets around to it and, if so, what should be considered "quickly"? Thanks. Leafy46 (talk) 16:31, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- Hi @Leafy46 Thanks for helping out at DYK; sorry your first review ended up being complicated like this! In any case, I've closed the review as withdrawn. In case you're wondering, you still get credit for the review when it comes to QPQ time. RoySmith (talk) 16:47, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- @RoySmith Thank you so much for the assistance! Leafy46 (talk) 17:26, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
@Schwede66, AirshipJungleman29, and BeanieFan11: I'm not following the full history here, but it looks like this was approved as a single hook for Manizha Talash and the other two got added post-approval. I suggest we go back to this being a single. The story really is that 1) there is an Afghani break dancer and 2) that the IOC Refugee Olympic Team exists. Adding the other two names just detracts from that. RoySmith (talk) 15:36, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- I don't see that story at Template:Did you know nominations/Manizha Talash... ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:46, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps, but it's still the interesting part. What's so special about "two other women are also competing in this sport on another team"? RoySmith (talk) 18:57, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- It's at the top of this page (Ctrl+F "talash") and at Template:Did you know nominations/Sunny Choi. With five date requests for that date, it does seem sensible to knock some of them together.--Launchballer 19:23, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Well, there were four date requests for 9 August (not five). We've (mostly) restricted the sets to three Olympics hooks. Hence, something needs to be merged somewhere. Obviously, we don't need to run all three of the break dancers in the same hook; we can have one plus two across two hooks. I'm open to suggestions. Schwede66 22:32, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Well, I know this is going to be unpopular but I'd suggest not running Choi and Edra at all. ChatGPT (because I couldn't find the answer on Wikipedia) tells me there's 32 competitors. What makes these two girls from "their country" special enough to stand out from the other 30? I know what makes Talash special, and it's a story worth telling without getting second (third?) billing. RoySmith (talk) 22:51, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- You are correct, RoySmith – I don't find that popular. You ask:
What makes these two girls from "their country" special enough to stand out from the other 30?
My answer is that the two articles meet all five criteria of WP:DYKAIM. And I suspect that ChatGPT found the answer to your query in this sentence:A total of 32 quota places (sixteen per sex) are available for eligible dancers to compete for the inaugural medals in breaking
– that is from Breaking at the 2024 Summer Olympics. Schwede66 23:21, 4 August 2024 (UTC)- Regarding your edit comment "no reason to refer to ChatGPT instead of WP", the bottom line is I spent a few minutes here and failed to find what I was looking for so I went there and got the answer. People come here for answers to questions. If somebody else is doing a better job of that (even if it's because they ingest our data), we're on the road to becoming irrelevant. RoySmith (talk) 23:47, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- It's a common problem that sports bios don't point to the individual event that competitors are competing in. I've thus tried it to make things as easy as possible by linking to the correct event in my table above that keeps track of everything. I guess what I'm saying is if you are looking for an answer to something Olympics-related, start with the table above. Schwede66 00:05, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- Regarding your edit comment "no reason to refer to ChatGPT instead of WP", the bottom line is I spent a few minutes here and failed to find what I was looking for so I went there and got the answer. People come here for answers to questions. If somebody else is doing a better job of that (even if it's because they ingest our data), we're on the road to becoming irrelevant. RoySmith (talk) 23:47, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- You are correct, RoySmith – I don't find that popular. You ask:
- Well, I know this is going to be unpopular but I'd suggest not running Choi and Edra at all. ChatGPT (because I couldn't find the answer on Wikipedia) tells me there's 32 competitors. What makes these two girls from "their country" special enough to stand out from the other 30? I know what makes Talash special, and it's a story worth telling without getting second (third?) billing. RoySmith (talk) 22:51, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Well, there were four date requests for 9 August (not five). We've (mostly) restricted the sets to three Olympics hooks. Hence, something needs to be merged somewhere. Obviously, we don't need to run all three of the break dancers in the same hook; we can have one plus two across two hooks. I'm open to suggestions. Schwede66 22:32, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- It's at the top of this page (Ctrl+F "talash") and at Template:Did you know nominations/Sunny Choi. With five date requests for that date, it does seem sensible to knock some of them together.--Launchballer 19:23, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps, but it's still the interesting part. What's so special about "two other women are also competing in this sport on another team"? RoySmith (talk) 18:57, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- This has since been promoted to Template:Did you know/Queue/3 by Z1720. I agree that this composite hook is very dull, which is a shame given the original hook suggestions. Perhaps a compromise could be move one to Q4 as breakdancing will also be occurring on the 10th (even if it's the men's event)? Sdrqaz (talk) 23:10, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- I saw this discussion before I promoted the queue. I had no concerns with the interest of the hook. I think stating that two athletes are representing their countries emphasises how the IOC Refugee information is unusual. I also do not think that there is a more interesting hook for the two American athletes available. Z1720 (talk) 23:19, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
Older nominations needing DYK reviewers
The previous list was archived a few hours ago, so I've created a new list of 36 nominations that need reviewing in the Older nominations section of the Nominations page, covering everything through July 20. We have a total of 288 nominations, of which 130 have been approved, a gap of 158 nominations that has decreased by 8 over the past 6 days. Thanks to everyone who reviews these and any other nominations!
More than one month old
- June 15: Template:Did you know nominations/Mohan Charan Majhi (hook only)
- June 21: Template:Did you know nominations/Chand Sifarish (hook only)
- June 22:
Template:Did you know nominations/Keegan Baker - June 23:
Template:Did you know nominations/Lahug Airport - June 24: Template:Did you know nominations/Dus Bahane
- June 26:
Template:Did you know nominations/Brandiose - June 28: Template:Did you know nominations/Jab Se Tere Naina
- June 28: Template:Did you know nominations/List of people who use their middle names as their first names
- June 29: Template:Did you know nominations/Sun Zhiyang
- June 30: Template:Did you know nominations/Liza 'N' Eliaz
- July 1: Template:Did you know nominations/Norman Hunter (footballer)
- July 3: Template:Did you know nominations/South West Norfolk in the 2024 United Kingdom general election
- July 4: Template:Did you know nominations/Iktara (song)
- July 4: Template:Did you know nominations/Hadriana in All My Dreams
- July 5: Template:Did you know nominations/Quintus Quincy Quigley
- July 5: Template:Did you know nominations/Grace Panvini
- July 5: Template:Did you know nominations/David B. Gillespie
Other nominations
- July 7: Template:Did you know nominations/Motibai Kapadia
- July 7: Template:Did you know nominations/Huang Wenxiu
- July 8: Template:Did you know nominations/1954 Busan Yongdusan fire
- July 9: Template:Did you know nominations/superseded combination
- July 13: Template:Did you know nominations/Leanne Mohamad
- July 13: Template:Did you know nominations/Mama (My Chemical Romance song)
- July 13: Template:Did you know nominations/Margaret Coe
- July 13: Template:Did you know nominations/Nathaniel Coe
- July 13: Template:Did you know nominations/1974 Speech of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman at the United Nations
- July 14: Template:Did you know nominations/Trump raised-fist photographs
- July 14: Template:Did you know nominations/Liber OZ
- July 14: Template:Did you know nominations/Upper Ivory Coast
- July 15: Template:Did you know nominations/S1/S2 (Amsterdam Metro)
- July 15: Template:Did you know nominations/Tukdam
- July 16: Template:Did you know nominations/Pontic Greek culture
- July 17: Template:Did you know nominations/The Eternaut
- July 18: Template:Did you know nominations/Khalji Revolution
- July 19:
Template:Did you know nominations/8th National Eucharistic Congress (United States) - July 20:
Template:Did you know nominations/Begüm Pusat
Please remember to cross off entries, including the date, as you finish reviewing them (unless you're asking for further review), even if the review was not an approval. Please do not remove them entirely. Many thanks! BlueMoonset (talk) 18:07, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
Solid South
This article was nominated recently, and I attempted a review, but it appears the nominator misunderstood the nomination process. They nominated the article for DYK in connection with nominating it for GA, apparently not understanding that the article has to pass GA before it can be successfully nominated. I am slightly at a loss about how to proceed. Should I fail the nomination? Can the nominator then propose it for DYK again after (if) it achieves GA status? Or can it be withdrawn somehow? Thanks for any pointers. Yakikaki (talk) 19:47, 6 August 2024 (UTC) Edit: There's a brief exchange between me and the nominator on my talk page casting some light on the misunderstandning. Yakikaki (talk) 19:48, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, the nomination should be failed. The article should be renominated if and when it passes GA. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:50, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, I see it has been closed as unsuccessful now. Yakikaki (talk) 19:52, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
@SL93, BeanieFan11, and Arcahaeoindris: The article says "sentenced to life imprisonment" which isn't the same as "imprisoned for life". RoySmith (talk) 00:51, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- I thought it was. I trust what you're saying though. ... that an American citizen was sentenced to life imprisonment for attempting to overthrow the government of Cambodia? SL93 (talk) 01:02, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Yes - what @SL93: said! Arcahaeoindris (talk) 15:51, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- This queue is next up. SL93 (talk) 18:25, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- 27 more minutes. I don't understand why this couldn't have been fixed days ago. SL93 (talk) 23:33, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- @DYK admins: This should probably be amended.--Launchballer 23:44, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
Done And sorry for not seeing this discussion earlier. Schwede66 23:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- @DYK admins: This should probably be amended.--Launchballer 23:44, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
@Launchballer, Schwede66, and Hey man im josh: Substantial text duplication from eagles.rugby, news.northeastern.edu, and sajr.co.za. See the earwig report for details.
- You didn't sign the post, hence no ping eventuated, RoySmith. Let me repeat this exercise on your behalf: @Launchballer, Schwede66, and Hey man im josh: Schwede66 04:16, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- I've left a message to the IP editor who did the expansion on my talk page. I assume that they keep an eye on my talk page. I agree that some copy-editing would need to happen before this can run. Schwede66 04:22, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Is there a way of purging Earwig's results? I tried to do some work on it earlier but the IP edit conflicted me, and it's still giving cached results.--Launchballer 19:26, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Launchballer I wasn't previously aware that it did any caching, but I do see that there's a "Bypass cache" checkbox on the form, so maybe check that and see what it does? RoySmith (talk) 19:49, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Same problem. I'll try again in the morning.--Launchballer 20:10, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Addressed. Other than names, per this. --2603:7000:2101:AA00:34AF:AC34:37AD:2505 (talk) 20:36, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Same problem. I'll try again in the morning.--Launchballer 20:10, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Launchballer I wasn't previously aware that it did any caching, but I do see that there's a "Bypass cache" checkbox on the form, so maybe check that and see what it does? RoySmith (talk) 19:49, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Is there a way of purging Earwig's results? I tried to do some work on it earlier but the IP edit conflicted me, and it's still giving cached results.--Launchballer 19:26, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
Extraneous Nom credit
The nomination credit to the Example editor that starts at the bottom of the credits with each empty set—* {{DYKnom|Example|Editor}}—has not been removed, as is supposed to happen when the set finally fills. Hoping that an admin can take care of this before the queue goes live. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:05, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
- I've given things a bit of a tidy up. Empty lines deleted; noms are now in the right order (not that it matters; it only helps when you check hooks against credits). Schwede66 05:21, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
DYKUpdateBot appears to be down
Shubinator, the DYKUpdateBot did not swing into action today. I'll do a manual update. Schwede66 01:28, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- All done. Schwede66 02:09, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Schwede66, it looks like you didn't clear Queue 2 after you promoted it to the main page. Any chance of getting that done? Many thanks for the manual update! BlueMoonset (talk) 03:27, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oops. I missed step 10. Now done. Schwede66 04:05, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Schwede66, it looks like you didn't clear Queue 2 after you promoted it to the main page. Any chance of getting that done? Many thanks for the manual update! BlueMoonset (talk) 03:27, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- I've restarted DYKUpdateBot, it's back in action. Thanks both for letting me know & the manual update! Shubinator (talk) 05:27, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Awesome. Thanks! Schwede66 08:46, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
When is a set going live (from javascript)
Is there any easy way to compute when a set is going live, from javascript? Basically, I want the text that's in the UTC column of Template:Did you know/Queue/LocalUpdateTimes. I took a look at the source for that and ran away screaming. I can see that it ends up calling Template:Did you know/Queue/LocalUpdateTimes/QueueCalculator but I can't figure out how to call that, i.e. what "offset" is supposed to be. RoySmith (talk) 15:17, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- And related to that, @Theleekycauldron would it be possible to add something to PSHAW which provided a link in the prep/queue back to the nomination? Where I'm going with this is being able to click on one button and have a script generate a {{ping}} template for you which includes all the interested parties. RoySmith (talk) 15:44, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- @RoySmith: When a set is going live? Should be easy – all you need is Template:Did you know/Next update/Time, User:DYKUpdateBot/Time Between Updates, and knowledge of multiplication. As for generating a backlink, I think it'd be a little extraneous given that backlinks are available in the credits ("View nom subpage"). theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:09, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Ah, I didn't realize that's what the subpage was. Thanks, that gives me what I need. I'm still scratching my head over the details of how to compute the expected main page time for a queue; I'm pretty good at the mechanics of multiplication, but in this case I'm not quite sure how to find all the things that need to be multiplied. RoySmith (talk) 14:21, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- @RoySmith: When a set is going live? Should be easy – all you need is Template:Did you know/Next update/Time, User:DYKUpdateBot/Time Between Updates, and knowledge of multiplication. As for generating a backlink, I think it'd be a little extraneous given that backlinks are available in the credits ("View nom subpage"). theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:09, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
Discussion of three DYKs at WP:ERRORS which scrolled off without resolution. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:14, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- ... that residents reported the first cycling club in Washington, D.C. (uniform pictured), to the police over concerns that bicycles posed a danger to pedestrians?
The article does not say or claim that this was "the first cycling club in Washington", just that it was "early".
Also, the source doesn't seem to mention pedestrians specifically – just of the "dangerous potential for accidents". Perhaps a concern was the risk of collisions with horses and/or people and property in general?
Note that the hook wasn't checked in the nomination even though it included a first. It was just waved through as AGF.
Andrew🐉(talk) 06:27, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- I added the "first" claim to the article, citing the same source. Pinging Generalissima and BeanieFan11 to consider the other issues. Beanie, we strongly suggest additional scrutiny for "first" hooks. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 13:34, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- I have to take some of the blame here, since I promoted the queue. It's especially embarrassing since ranting about "first" hooks is one of the top ways I make myself annoying at WT:DYK. The unfortunate truth is that when I'm processing queues, I don't have time to read every article in full. I generally just read the hook and then search for keywords in the text to verify the facts. Looking back at the article, I suspect I found "the first such club in the country" and didn't notice this was immediately preceded by "Boston Bicycle Club".
- I know this has been said before, but Andrew, you have a keen eye for detail and critical reading. These are valuable skills and in great demand at DYK, so thank you for the much-needed quality control. But it would be even more useful if it was done on the #Next DYK and #Next-but-one DYK sections, so we could catch these problems before they hit the main page. RoySmith (talk) 15:02, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Different point: the comma after the "(uniform pictured)" should instead come before. So, " ... Washington, D.C., (uniform pictured) to the police". JMCHutchinson (talk) 13:42, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- ... that Olympic taekwondo practitioner Emmanuella Atora described her career as "I hit people for a living"?
According to the source, what she actually said was "Je tape les gens pour vivre". This was not translated by the source and it's not clear what she meant by it as Taekwondo is not usually a professional sport while she appears to have a career as an aspiring professional model. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:27, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Also, the line was a meme already, having been used by MMA fighter Francis Ngannou a year earlier [1]. Black Kite (talk) 07:23, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Well spotted. Francis Ngannou is a successful professional fighter and so the boast works better for him. There's merchandise too... Andrew🐉(talk) 08:51, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Also, the line was a meme already, having been used by MMA fighter Francis Ngannou a year earlier [1]. Black Kite (talk) 07:23, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
In the fourth hook, there doesn't seem to be any reason for "The" in "The Proms" to be capitalized. Primergrey (talk) 19:53, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Primergrey Thanks for the report. The article is inconsistent on "the Proms" vs "The Proms"; it mostly uses "the", but there's enough instances of "The" to make me unsure what's the right thing to do here. I'll leave it the way it is now and ask about it on Talk:BBC Proms. You may want to follow that conversation. RoySmith (talk) 21:35, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Andrew Davidson, I don't know if you saw Roy's comment above about checking the "Next DYK" and "Next-but-one DYK" slots on WP:ERRORS before they go live, but I would echo it. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 10:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- While their work is great, I do remember their comment of "If DYK published regular corrections then the shame might be a useful check and balance, helping to deter sloppy work." from July 1. Not doing the checks earlier and posting this section here might just be a way to shame contributors. SL93 (talk) 22:37, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
DYK for Aid climbing
I was away for a few weeks and had Aid climbing in the DYK queue, but never got a notice on my talk page that it appeared on the mainpage, and there is no DYK notice on the talk page of the article.
However, there didn't seem to be issues on Template:Did you know nominations/Aid climbing? My question is did the DYK appear on the main page, or was it pulled? thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 10:10, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- It ran. See [2].--Launchballer 10:21, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for that! Aszx5000 (talk) 17:22, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- It seems like this was a fault of the PSHAW script (FYI theleekycauldron), where it converted a nominator's existing credit into another article (there were two articles by the same nominator). Sdrqaz (talk) 00:21, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
Special Occasion review request for Siege of Perth
Unsure how best to make this request, but I had raised Template:Did you know nominations/Siege of Perth (1339) some time ago and thought it might be nice to run on 17 August as the anniversary of the end of the siege. Presuming there is no issue with this, I had wanted to highlight it here to request a review, allowing time to deal with any issues and avoid the nomination being overlooked. CSJJ104 (talk) 20:34, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- You were within the six week window so as long as the review passes you should be good to go. NightWolf1223 <Howl at me•My hunts> 20:41, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for confirming, but my concern was more related to the fact that it has yet to receive a review, and we are getting close to the date. CSJJ104 (talk) 00:54, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
@Joeyquism, Morgan695, and AirshipJungleman29:
I changed the hook from "tickling" to "tickled" (and the appropriate grammar) because 1) that is how it is quoted in the source and the article (with the quote marks) and 2) the woman used forced perspective to make it look like she was tickling the statue, which necessitates the quote marks. Please ping if there are questions, concerns, or if different wording would be better. Z1720 (talk) 03:35, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you, @Z1720; it looks mostly good. I do feel that "after she..." would work better than "when she" here; let me know what you think. joeyquism (talk) 03:44, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
@AirshipJungleman29, Gobonobo, and Lajmmoore: WP:CLOP vs https://poozeum.com/t-rex-poop (earwig). Also, WP:RSNP says "Editors have expressed concern that post-2008 records include paid coverage" for Guinness World Records. And the photo credit says " Photo courtesy of the Poozeum" and "own work", both of which I doubt. RoySmith (talk) 10:53, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- PS, I've nominated the image for deletion on Commons RoySmith (talk) 11:31, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- As noted at the image's deletion discussion, this provenance of the photo was already addressed at User talk:YetiStuff#Couple of things. My sense is that the uploader is not lying about being the owner of the coprolite images. I'm not seeing any problem with the GWR reference as it is not being used to establish notability, but the article would suffer little if it had to be removed. The one instance of close paraphrasing I saw has been addressed, but if there is anything else, please ping me. gobonobo + c 13:34, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
@AirshipJungleman29, Schwede66, and Z1720: I'm going to go out on a limb and say WTF? As noted in the nomination template, the nominator is indef blocked for copyright violation. The nom was failed, and that was overridden by an IP. Is this really what we want to be showcasing on the main page? It's also another "first" hook, and considered the earliest deep-sea shipwreck to be discovered
in the article got turned into the wikivoice statement is the earliest deep-sea shipwreck
. In the hook. My recommendation is this be pulled. RoySmith (talk) 11:27, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- I am familiar with the original nominator, have rejected several of their nominations for WP:NONENGPLAG, and have recommended against unblocking them on their userpage. I have checked this article over, and I was unable to find similar violations. The article itself meets the reasoning at WP:DYKAIM, there is no meaningful difference between the hook and the relevant cited sentences in the article, and the hook is in fact relatively conservative—it has been suggested to be the oldest complete shipwreck ever found, deep-water or not (only two other Bronze Age shipwrecks with cargo have been found in the Mediterranean). I would advise against pulling. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:16, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- One of the things which makes it difficult for me to evaluate this is that most of the sources are in Hebrew. That's perfectly fine in general, and we often WP:AGF on foreign-language sources, but in this case we're dealing with an author who has a history of copyright issues, so AGF becomes more difficult. I'd really want this text to be checked over by somebody with a native reading knowledge of Hebrew. If that's you, great, I'll be happy to go with your evaluation. If not, then I think we need to look for one. RoySmith (talk) 12:53, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Given that this is already on Queue we'd really want to get it right this time, so regardless if AJ29's check is sufficient it should probably be pulled temporarily until we're absolutely sure it checks. Since you're a sysop, maybe you can do the honors? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:28, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- I've swapped it out to Prep 6 which at least will give us a few days to look at it. RoySmith (talk) 13:41, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- We should engage with the IP editor. I’m pretty certain that they can read Hebrew. I’ll ask them. Schwede66 15:07, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- I've swapped it out to Prep 6 which at least will give us a few days to look at it. RoySmith (talk) 13:41, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- WP:NONENGPLAG refers to direct or superficially modified translations of sources in other languages—for this, Google Translate is sufficient. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:25, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Well, if you trust a copyright check based on a machine translation for an article written by somebody who is indeffed for copyvios, go for it. It's not something I want to put my signature on. RoySmith (talk) 15:57, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- They have been indeffed for copyvios because of copyright checks based on machine translations. If you feel that machine translations are not accurate enough to check copyrights, you should accept their unblock request immediately and apologise for a block based on insufficient reasoning. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:26, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Well, if you trust a copyright check based on a machine translation for an article written by somebody who is indeffed for copyvios, go for it. It's not something I want to put my signature on. RoySmith (talk) 15:57, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Given that this is already on Queue we'd really want to get it right this time, so regardless if AJ29's check is sufficient it should probably be pulled temporarily until we're absolutely sure it checks. Since you're a sysop, maybe you can do the honors? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:28, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- One of the things which makes it difficult for me to evaluate this is that most of the sources are in Hebrew. That's perfectly fine in general, and we often WP:AGF on foreign-language sources, but in this case we're dealing with an author who has a history of copyright issues, so AGF becomes more difficult. I'd really want this text to be checked over by somebody with a native reading knowledge of Hebrew. If that's you, great, I'll be happy to go with your evaluation. If not, then I think we need to look for one. RoySmith (talk) 12:53, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Looking at this, I wondered why it was called "Orca Shipwreck" which the article didn't explain. Most English language sources such as the BBC, Scientific American and NYT don't use this name. I've amended the title so that it is now Canaanite shipwreck which also uses the correct sentence case. If the hook is run, then it should be adjusted accordingly but I'm not sure where the hook is in the pipeline now. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:10, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- There's an argument to be made, given the ballaches caused by the blocks of certain former DYK regulars, that nominators with blocks of more than two weeks should automatically forfeit their nominations. Issues could conceivably be found at any point and there's no point going through the motions if the nominators physically can't fix them.--Launchballer 10:25, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
Ling Nam postmortem
This is about figuring out what went wrong so we can improve the process, not to place blame on anybody in particular. This was brought up on WP:ERRORS. Looking at the history, I see many small things that went wrong, all of which added up to us publishing something we shouldn't have.
First, as mentioned on WP:ERRORS, the original hook was incorrect, possibly because this was a third-party nomination so the nom didn't know the subject. Somewhere along the way, the article author noticed the problem but posted their correction on the article talk page instead of on the nomination page, so it probably wasn't seen by the reviewer and/or promoter. When the hook got corrected, instead of striking out the original and adding an ALT, the original was changed in-place, making it less likely the promoter would be aware of the problem. When the new hook was reviewed, the reviewer gave it a lukewarm approval, but it ended up getting approved anyway. And lastly, we've got people at WP:ERORRS who seem to be more interested in waiting for things to get published so than can embarrass us in public than in being part of the process and helping to spot problems before they go live.
I think the take-home should be that everybody needs to just slow down and be more careful. It's more important to get it right than to get it done. RoySmith (talk) 14:15, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- One process/software issue here is that editing the "Did you know nomination" section on the talk page does not edit the Did you know nomination, unlike most other transcluded sections elsewhere on the 'pedia. We could perhaps at least add a hidden comment to the section when the DYK nom is transcluded to the talk page, to warn people that their comments are unlikely to be seen.
- DYK discussions should really be able to use the "reply" button like all other discussions on Wikipedia, but that doesn't work because they (a) happen in the wrong namespace and (b) inside an overly complicated and clever template. —Kusma (talk) 14:24, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- A recent issue of Tech News had a bit about being able to configure VE to run in all namespaces. It wasn't clear if that also applied to Discussion Tools (which I think is what the reply button is connected to). But, yeah, not having a working reply button is a real pain. RoySmith (talk) 15:15, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
Older nominations needing DYK reviewers
The previous list was archived about an hour ago, so I've created a new list of 36 nominations that need reviewing in the Older nominations section of the Nominations page, covering everything through July 24. We have a total of 281 nominations, of which 125 have been approved, a gap of 156 nominations that has decreased by 2 over the past 7 days. Thanks to everyone who reviews these and any other nominations!
More than three months old
More than one month old
June 15: Template:Did you know nominations/Mohan Charan Majhi (hook only)- June 21: Template:Did you know nominations/Chand Sifarish (hook only)
June 26: Template:Did you know nominations/BrandioseJune 28: Template:Did you know nominations/Jab Se Tere NainaJuly 2: Template:Did you know nominations/2024 MLS All-Star GameJuly 3: Template:Did you know nominations/South West Norfolk in the 2024 United Kingdom general election- July 4: Template:Did you know nominations/Iktara (song)
July 4: Template:Did you know nominations/Hadriana in All My DreamsJuly 5: Template:Did you know nominations/Quintus Quincy Quigley- July 5: Template:Did you know nominations/Grace Panvini
- July 5: Template:Did you know nominations/David B. Gillespie
- July 7: Template:Did you know nominations/Huang Wenxiu
July 8: Template:Did you know nominations/1954 Busan Yongdusan fire- July 9: Template:Did you know nominations/superseded combination
Other nominations
- July 13: Template:Did you know nominations/Leanne Mohamad
- July 13: Template:Did you know nominations/Margaret Coe
- July 13: Template:Did you know nominations/Nathaniel Coe
July 14: Template:Did you know nominations/Liber OZ- July 14: Template:Did you know nominations/Upper Ivory Coast
July 15: Template:Did you know nominations/S1/S2 (Amsterdam Metro)- July 15: Template:Did you know nominations/Tukdam
July 16: Template:Did you know nominations/Pontic Greek cultureJuly 17: Template:Did you know nominations/Babydog- July 17: Template:Did you know nominations/The Eternaut
- July 18: Template:Did you know nominations/Khalji Revolution
July 21: Template:Did you know nominations/Josep-Lluís Serrano Pentinat- July 21: Template:Did you know nominations/I'll See You in C-U-B-A
- July 21: Template:Did you know nominations/Dublin Castle scandal
- July 22: Template:Did you know nominations/Siege of Perth (1339)
July 22: Template:Did you know nominations/State Publishing House of Ukraine- July 23: Template:Did you know nominations/Vadym Sukharevsky
- July 23: Template:Did you know nominations/Splitwise
July 24: Template:Did you know nominations/Sun Chen (breakdancer)- July 24: Template:Did you know nominations/Wolfman's Got Nards
- July 24: Template:Did you know nominations/Aracy Amaral
- July 24: Template:Did you know nominations/Alfredo Gandolfi
- July 24: Template:Did you know nominations/Abduction of Jonila Castro and Jhed Tamano
Please remember to cross off entries, including the date, as you finish reviewing them (unless you're asking for further review), even if the review was not an approval. Please do not remove them entirely. Many thanks! BlueMoonset (talk) 15:53, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
@Hey man im josh, Kimikel, and Dumelow: Hook fact needs an end-of-sentence citation. RoySmith (talk) 12:35, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
@Hey man im josh, Di (they-them), and Bsoyka: I'm not sure we can say "are the first"; that asserts a fact in wikivoice; the article only says "The Milano Cortina 2026 Organizing Committee described the pair as ..." RoySmith (talk) 12:38, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- That's a good point, I support that change and think it makes sense. Hey man im josh (talk) 12:45, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed, I support the change. Di (they-them) (talk) 14:53, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- I also support that, thanks for the catch. Bsoyka (t • c • g) 12:48, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
@AirshipJungleman29, Kevmin, and Awkwafaba: The hook says "are lost at the Smithsonian", which implies that they got to the Smithsonian and then the museum lost them. The article only says "Pearson sent almost all of the specimens collected to the Smithsonian, but the fossils were never accessioned into the collections". For all we know, they got lost in transit and never made it to the museum. RoySmith (talk) 12:46, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Good spot, should it be "lost on their way to the Smithsonian"? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:51, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- But that's not correct either. I suggested that being lost in transit was one possible explanation. It's certainly possible they did indeed get delivered and got lost inside the museum. From the information we have, there's no way to know which. RoySmith (talk) 15:03, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- @RoySmith and AirshipJungleman29: They were lost after arriving at the Smithsonian, Being examined by the head of the Smithsonians paleoichthyology department David Dunkle and Dunkle replying to Pearson with a list of tentative identifications as to what the fish genera were in the mid 1960's. Within 10 years of that happening, When Mark Wilson tried to find them for re-examination, they were unlocatable, as they had not been accessioned and so placement in the vast collections was not determinable. Given that Pearson has stated he sent the specimens for identification, and Dunkle was able to respond with identifications, that Wilson was able to report on later, establishes clearly that the fossils were last know to be AT the Smithsonian. I have added Pearson (1967) to Libotonius, with Pearson specifically detailing the correspondence with Dunkle. Pearson, R.C. (1967). Geologic map of the Bodie Mountain quadrangle, Ferry and Okanogan counties, Washington (Geologic Quadrangle). Report. United States Geological Survey. doi:10.3133/gq636. --Kevmin § 16:22, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Kevmin OK, I see the report at https://pubs.usgs.gov/gq/0636/report.pdf, but all it says about Dunkle is
Fossil fish from the same beds as the plants have been identified by D. H. Dunkle (written communs.,1962, 1965) as Amyzon, Trychophanes, Erismatopterus, and a salmon.
Am I looking in the wrong place? If so, could you help me find the section that talks about this correspondence? RoySmith (talk) 16:46, 12 August 2024 (UTC)- That is the correspondence, the "Erismatopterus" that Dunkle idnetified from the sent fossils are the fossils Mark Wilson in 1979 stated as probably being Libotonius and not Erismatopterus (a related genus from Wyoming fossils). Pearson and wilson state the fossils were sent to the Smithsonian, and Dunkle looked at something to make the identifications he wrote back to Pearson with.--Kevmin § 18:15, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- It took a bit of digging, but I found Wilson 1978 in ResearchGate. Based on that, I'm satisfied the hook is a defensible statement. RoySmith (talk) 21:01, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- That is the correspondence, the "Erismatopterus" that Dunkle idnetified from the sent fossils are the fossils Mark Wilson in 1979 stated as probably being Libotonius and not Erismatopterus (a related genus from Wyoming fossils). Pearson and wilson state the fossils were sent to the Smithsonian, and Dunkle looked at something to make the identifications he wrote back to Pearson with.--Kevmin § 18:15, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Kevmin OK, I see the report at https://pubs.usgs.gov/gq/0636/report.pdf, but all it says about Dunkle is
- @RoySmith and AirshipJungleman29: They were lost after arriving at the Smithsonian, Being examined by the head of the Smithsonians paleoichthyology department David Dunkle and Dunkle replying to Pearson with a list of tentative identifications as to what the fish genera were in the mid 1960's. Within 10 years of that happening, When Mark Wilson tried to find them for re-examination, they were unlocatable, as they had not been accessioned and so placement in the vast collections was not determinable. Given that Pearson has stated he sent the specimens for identification, and Dunkle was able to respond with identifications, that Wilson was able to report on later, establishes clearly that the fossils were last know to be AT the Smithsonian. I have added Pearson (1967) to Libotonius, with Pearson specifically detailing the correspondence with Dunkle. Pearson, R.C. (1967). Geologic map of the Bodie Mountain quadrangle, Ferry and Okanogan counties, Washington (Geologic Quadrangle). Report. United States Geological Survey. doi:10.3133/gq636. --Kevmin § 16:22, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- But that's not correct either. I suggested that being lost in transit was one possible explanation. It's certainly possible they did indeed get delivered and got lost inside the museum. From the information we have, there's no way to know which. RoySmith (talk) 15:03, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
@AirshipJungleman29, Launchballer, and Arconning: The quote in the article is "three generations of Detroit artists", not "three generations of Detroit" as rendered in the hook. RoySmith (talk) 12:50, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Fine with the change, however the phrase "generations of Detroit" actually appears twice, once under "3 generations of Detroit".--Launchballer 12:53, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Ah, OK. I've changed the hook to use "3" so it matches the first quote. RoySmith (talk) 13:47, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
@AirshipJungleman29, Gerda Arendt, and Vigilantcosmicpenguin: The article and the quote from the source in the nom both say "was burned". This got turned into "burned at the stake" in the hook. If the source doesn't say "at the stake", we shouldn't either. RoySmith (talk) 12:57, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Fair enough, I didn't know any other type of burning was done for heretics. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:51, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- I think the source [3] says he was burnt at the stake ("Scheiterhaufen"), but I don't know enough German to confirm the exact meaning, so I'll leave it to the nominators to determine how to phrase it in the article. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 14:49, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt can you help with a translation? RoySmith (talk) 17:10, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- My translator gives me two translations for Scheiterhaufen: pyre and stake. I read both these words but wasn't exactly sure what they mean. It seems close enough to me to use stake in article and hook. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:30, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- Scheiterhaufen seems to mean pile of wood, which is the same as pyre. A stake is a wooden post, so being burned on a pyre does not necessarily mean burned at the stake. TSventon (talk) 20:34, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- My translator gives me two translations for Scheiterhaufen: pyre and stake. I read both these words but wasn't exactly sure what they mean. It seems close enough to me to use stake in article and hook. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:30, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt can you help with a translation? RoySmith (talk) 17:10, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
@Clarityfiend, Yakikaki, and AirshipJungleman29:
- ... that Abraham Lincoln felt obliged to propose to Mary Owens – a woman he did not want to marry – but was rejected, not once but several times?
I have changed the hook to:
- ... that Abraham Lincoln felt obliged to propose to Mary Owens – a woman he did not want to marry – but was rejected several times?
I have also added a "citation needed" tag, which will need to be addressed before this goes on the Main Page. Z1720 (talk) 17:00, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- I thought about doing that trim, but decided against it, as the odd, story-like phrasing is suitable for the quirky slot. I would prefer it reinstated Z1720. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:50, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- @AirshipJungleman29 I disagree. The "story-like" phrasing isn't really amusing, just an unnecessary verbiage. BorgQueen (talk) 22:07, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- I did not feel it was amusing and did not want it to be; it is just story-like. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:11, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- @AirshipJungleman29 Then it is irrelevant. Are you saying the quirky slot is for story-like entries? That's something new to me. BorgQueen (talk) 22:16, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- No, I am saying the quirky slot is for quirky entries (c.f. OED: "Characterized by certain unexpected, odd, or unusual traits; idiosyncratic, eccentric; peculiar, unusual"). Really, it's not a big deal—if you feel the hook is more interesting trimmed, I don't much care. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:22, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- @AirshipJungleman29 Then it is irrelevant. Are you saying the quirky slot is for story-like entries? That's something new to me. BorgQueen (talk) 22:16, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- I did not feel it was amusing and did not want it to be; it is just story-like. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:11, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- @AirshipJungleman29 I disagree. The "story-like" phrasing isn't really amusing, just an unnecessary verbiage. BorgQueen (talk) 22:07, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
Island
@ForksForks, Silver seren, and AirshipJungleman29:
- ... that animals can colonize islands by riding tropical cyclones?
I could not find in the article where this was stated. The source used in the DYK nom was only used once in the article as an inline citation, to support the statement: "One case study showed that in 1995, fifteen iguanas survived a 300 km journey to Anguilla in the Caribbean, an island which no iguana had lived on previously. They survived floating on a mass of uprooted trees from a storm."
The hook implies that the animals used the storm to travel, but the sentence in the article says the animals travelled on trees uprooted by a storm. Does the text in the article need to change, or should a different ALT hook be used? Z1720 (talk) 23:47, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Looks like I grabbed the wrong source. See this Nat Geo article in the source [4] (Paywalled, sorry)
- per the source’s lead image caption: “Hurricane Isaias approaches Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, on August 3, 2020. The storm's floodwaters spread more than a hundred invasive species, according to the U.S. Geological Survey.”
- Though it looks like the source does not directly imply that it is the wind transporting animals, I read that in a source I don’t have available on my phone right now I believe — propose adding “the floodwaters produced by” before “tropical cyclones” if you desire to be specific.
- I am also OK with switching to the original proposed hook about species extinction risk. Up to you. ForksForks (talk) 00:29, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Reading this back, I actually think I’d rather we just run the original hook about extinction and I’ll work on resolving this issue in the article when I’m back on stable internet. ForksForks (talk) 01:06, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- try this link Rjjiii (talk) 02:25, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- I felt that riding the storm and riding the ocean that produces and sustains the storm are pretty much the same thing, but if that has to be specifically said (i.e. "riding the waves of tropical cyclones?") would that work? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 10:50, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- No, tropical cyclones don't have waves, waves are just an effect they cause in water. Animals can colonize islands through floats on normal currents, the cyclone addition is purely DYK hook factor. CMD (talk) 11:31, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- While this hook is interesting, it is not supported by the sources as written. I propose the following:
- ALT ... that rising water levels from tropical cyclones have allowed animals to colonise islands.
- Or something similar. Thoughts? Z1720 (talk) 02:03, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- Works for me, or, as ForksForks said, the original ALT0. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:40, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- OK with me, feel free to use your discretion. Though colonize vs colonise is an ENGVAR question and the article is in American english. ForksForks (talk) 15:01, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- I switched the hook with ALT0, as it is more succinct and it is less likely to get hauled to ERRORS, imo. Z1720 (talk) 16:31, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for your help with this issue! I will do better in the future. ForksForks (talk) 17:45, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- You spoke too soon as ALT0 is now at WP:ERRORS, following other discussion below. I reckon that ALT2 is the safest bet: "... that Polynesian navigators discovered new islands without the use of navigational instruments?". Andrew🐉(talk) 07:28, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- I switched the hook with ALT0, as it is more succinct and it is less likely to get hauled to ERRORS, imo. Z1720 (talk) 16:31, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- While this hook is interesting, it is not supported by the sources as written. I propose the following:
- No, tropical cyclones don't have waves, waves are just an effect they cause in water. Animals can colonize islands through floats on normal currents, the cyclone addition is purely DYK hook factor. CMD (talk) 11:31, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
@Generalissima, Epicgenius, and AirshipJungleman29:
I have added a cn tag to the article: this will need to be resolved before it goes on the main page. Z1720 (talk) 00:05, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oops - this has now been fixed. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 01:06, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
Special occasion idea: Olympics
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Discussion on Olympics
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Remembering that we did themed sets for the FIFA Women's World Cup last year, I thought of an idea for a themed set of hooks: the 2024 Summer Olympics take place from July 26 to August 11 this year (in a little over five weeks) and I think there will probably be a decent number of Olympics-related hooks; I at least plan to write a good number of them. I was thinking we might be able to do something like one Olympics hook per day for the duration of the event, similar to how we did for the FIFA World Cup. Thoughts? BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:16, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
Some related considerations:
All the Olympic-related hooks that I could spot are in the table below. Schwede66 03:52, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
Just noting here that Zhang Ziyu has been nominated. Whilst she does play basketball and China is competing in that discipline at in Paris, she's not (yet?) a member of the China women's national basketball team. Hence, we could use this as another warmup hook. Schwede66 05:01, 7 July 2024 (UTC) Could somebody please review Draft:Adam Maraana? The review could double as a QPQ, as the intention of the IP editor is to have this run as part of the Olympics. Schwede66 06:15, 8 July 2024 (UTC) Red-tailed hawk, is there a good reason why you pulled the Solomon Islands at the 2020 Summer Olympics hook out of the special occasion holding area (SOHA) and put it into prep 4? Because if there isn't a good reason, I'd like to see this reverted. Schwede66 00:49, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
Some of the Olympic hooks need a bit more attention from reviewers, or nominators are dragging the chain with QPQs. For example, Prep 1 is already filled but there's still one hook that awaits its QPQ. Prep 2 is filling up but a review for this nomination hasn't even been started yet. I'd be happy to do some shuffling but there's nothing really to shuffle this with; further down, the hooks are all timed for particular occasions. Shifting items back into the Olympics proper is also tricky as almost all days have two or three items already. I'd most appreciate if those who can stand reviewing sports articles can give this some attention. Schwede66 09:32, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
Here's a summary of how many hooks we've got, and when they are scheduled to run (note that the table has been shifted to the section "Help needed"): As can be seen:
Therefore, we have to agree whether we would be happy with three Olympic-related hooks per set. Delaying Olympic-related hooks that are already approved is definitely not helping. Schwede66 22:49, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
SL93, Lorrane Oliveira was for Prep6, not Prep5. Schwede66 00:43, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
We currently have four hooks for 29 July / Prep6; this is the next prep set that will become available. That sounds too many, however, only one of those hooks is currently at SOHA. One hook, a swimmer starting for Israel, hasn't had the review started yet. There may well be a reluctance to "touch" anything Israel, so this might not make it. The two other hooks are both awaiting BeanieFan11 to provide a QPQ. Thus, at this point in time, we only have one viable hook from four candidates. When Prep6 becomes available, I'll thus bring one of the "foo at the YYYY Summer Olympics" hooks forward so that we've at least got two hooks to go. Schwede66 20:14, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
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Proposal
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The Paris Olympics will be kicking off on 26 July 2024 with an opening ceremony in the early evening. Event competitions start two days earlier on 24 July with association football and rugby sevens. The closing ceremony (article yet to be written!) is on 11 August. That's 19 days of Olympics and as suggested above, we could run Solomon Islands at the 2020 Summer Olympics as a warmup just before that period.
There'll be some special date requests coming in and to avoid filling up individual hook sets with too much sport, I suggest we co-ordinate what will run when to spread things out in a logical fashion. I suspect that we'll stay in a 24-hour cycle for the duration of the event but if that changes, we can accommodate that as well. Time zone–wise, Paris is currently at UTC+02:00 (Central European Summer Time or CEST), hence there are no mental gymnastics necessary as long as we stay in the 24-hour cycle. Comments welcome. Helpers are welcome and essential; I certainly don't want to do this all by myself as this was quite a bit of work some three years ago for the Tokyo Olympics. And with regards to my own special interests, I shall tell you that the Kiwi rowers are in good shape; I can hear the medals clinking already! Schwede66 01:20, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
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Help needed
Suggested date | Q / Prep | Hooks 18 Jul | Hooks 19 Jul | Hooks 21 Jul | Hooks 3 Aug | Hooks 4 Aug |
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21-Jul | Queue5 | 2 | 2 | 2 | ||
22-Jul | Queue6 | 2 | 2 | 2 | ||
23-Jul | Queue7 | 2 | 2 | 2 | ||
24-Jul | Queue1 | 2 | 2 | 2 | ||
25-Jul | Queue2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | ||
26-Jul | Queue3 | 2 | 2 | 3 | ||
27-Jul | Queue4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | ||
28-Jul | Queue5 | 3 | 3 | 3 | ||
29-Jul | Queue6 | 2 | 4 | 3 | ||
30-Jul | Queue7 | 3 | 3 | 5 | ||
31-Jul | Queue1 | 3 | 3 | 2 | ||
1-Aug | Queue2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | ||
2-Aug | Queue3 | 2 | 2 | 2 | ||
3-Aug | Queue4 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 4 | |
4-Aug | Queue5 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 |
5-Aug | Queue6 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 3 | 3 |
6-Aug | Queue7 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 3 |
7-Aug | Prep1 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 2 |
8-Aug | Prep2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 |
9-Aug | Prep3 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
10-Aug | Prep4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
11-Aug | Prep5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 |
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Just a heads up that I've got a week of little available time coming up:
After that, things should be back to normal. Hence, it might be a good idea if others take the lead. Kingsif, you were asking whether there's something where you could help – here's your chance. Last time, Joseph2302 did a lot of good work – would you be interested to step up? What needs doing? Here's a hopefully complete list:
If I think of anything else, I'll add that to the list. It's reasonably late in the process (the first competitions will start tomorrow) and all the structural issues are sorted. It just needs some low-level maintenance at this point. Schwede66 23:05, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
Hadi Tiranvalipour (nom) is supposed to be in prep 1, which is the next prep to be moved to queue. Problem is that the review hasn't been started yet. Any takers? Schwede66 00:44, 2 August 2024 (UTC) Ada Korkhin (nom) is a rather late nomination. It's worth getting this one into the system because it comes with a stunner of a hook! Schwede66 11:42, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
@Schwede66: Probably too short notice, but might as well ask: would it be possible to feature Template:Did you know nominations/Jamal Valizadeh on August 5? BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:33, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
I've just added Minna Stess to the table below for 11 August. Schwede66 10:06, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
And another late candidate for 7 August: Jesse Grupper (nom) Schwede66 09:02, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
I think this is the last nomination that I shall add here, and it's my own. Finn Butcher (nom). Could even be used as the lead hook, as we have a series of nice photos. Schwede66 01:55, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
As nobody has reviewed the Iman Mahdavi nomination, I shall take the SOHA box off. It can go into the normal review cycle. Schwede66 00:36, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
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Olympic hooks table
On the "Approved" page, there is now a heading Olympics: Special occasion holding area.
Article (nom) | Requested | Suggested date | Prep set | Notes (all times in CEST) | Views |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
2024 European Athletics Championships – Women's 400 metres hurdles (nom) | none | 21 July | Queue 5 | ![]() |
2,950 |
Breaking Through (2022 film) (nom) | none | 21 July | Queue5 | The film deals with real events around the 2002 Winter Olympics, hence it's an ideal warmup hook. | 3,579 |
Zali Steggall (nom) | none | 22 July | Queue 6 | 1998 Olympic skier | 5,727 |
Ri Jong-yol (nom) | none | 22 July | Queue6 | One of the warm-up hooks; can run on any date before the Olympics start | 14,746 |
Yang Jingru (speed skater) (nom) | none | 23 July | Queue 7 | One of the warm-up hooks; can run on any date before the Olympics start. | 5,972 |
René Heyde (nom) | none | 23 July | Queue7 | One of the warm-up hooks; can run on any date before the Olympics start. | 2,405 |
Toby Olubi and Can't Touch This (nom) | none | 24 July | Queue 1 | One of the warm-up hooks; can run on any date before the Olympics start (24 is in fact the first day of competitions but we haven't got anything for that day yet). This double-hook has already had its admin checks done (by Cwmhiraeth) | 3,542 4,101 |
American Samoa at the 2020 Summer Olympics (nom) | none | 24 July | Queue1 | One of the "foo at the YYYY Summer Olympics" hooks; can run on any day during the Olympics | 5,223 |
Twice a Man (film) (nom) | none | 25 July | Queue 2 | ... that Olympia Dukakis's first screen role was in the avant-garde film Twice a Man?That's got to be a brilliant Olympics hook. |
4,711 |
Angling at the 1900 Summer Olympics (nom) | none | 25 July | Queue2 | One of the Olympic warmup hooks. | 9,438 |
Camil Doua (nom) | none | 26 July | Queue 3 | Flagbearer – Doua is competing in the men's 100 metre freestyle and the heats will be on 30 July. Problem is that we have two hooks for that date already. As Doua is flagbearer for Mauritania, the opening ceremony date is a perfectly viable alternative. Agreed for this to be a standalone hook for its rather cool hook fact. | 11,595 |
Alison McGregor (nom) | none | 26 July | Queue3 | The hook mentions that she was an Olympic torch carrier, i.e. a great warmup hook for the opening day. | 2,766 |
Lê Đức Phát (nom) | 26 July | 26 July | Queue3 | Flagbearer – part of the mass hook. Otherwise, Lê is going to compete in men's singles badminton, with the preliminary round every day from 27 to 31 July inclusive. Any of those days would thus also work. | 3,385 |
Edda Hannesdóttir (nom) | 26 July | 26 July | Queue3 | Flagbearer – part of the mass hook. Otherwise, Hannesdóttir is set to compete in the women's triathlon on 31 July | 3,230 |
María Sara Grippoli (nom) | 26 July | 26 July | Queue3 | Flagbearer – part of the mass hook. Otherwise, Grippoli is set to compete in women's 49 kg taekwondo, with all competitions on 7 August. | 2,666 |
Viren Nettasinghe (nom) | 26 July | 26 July | Queue3 | Flagbearer – part of the mass hook. | 2,655 |
Chloë Farro (nom) | 26 July | 26 July | Queue3 | Flagbearer – part of the mass hook. | 3,464 |
Oyuntsetseg Yesügen (nom) | 26 July | 26 July | Queue3 | Flagbearer – part of the mass hook. Late addition to the set. The nomination page is already closed; if you'd like to review this, please use the nomination talk page to do so. | 130 |
Fathimath Dheema Ali (nom) | none | 27 July | Queue 4 | The women's table tennis singles prelim round starts on 27 July | 7,235 |
Evann Girault (nom) | none | 27 July | Queue4 | Girault is going to compete in men's sabre, and that competition is held on 27 July (from elimination to finals; all on one day) | 3,825 |
Lilia Cosman (nom) | 28 July | 28 July | Queue 5 | Cosman will compete in the qualification round on 28 July. | 11,042 |
Aminata Barrow (nom) | None | 28 July | Queue5 | Barrow will compete in women's 100 metre breaststroke, with heats on 28 July | 4,319 |
Lorrane Oliveira (nom) | 28 July | 28 July | Queue5 | ![]() |
10,444 |
Adam Maraana (nom) | 29 July | 29 July | Queue 6 | ![]() |
18,400 |
Victor Alvares de Oliveira (nom) | 29 July | 29 July | Queue6 | Submitted on 18 July hence this one might not make it in time. Alvares de Oliveira is going to compete in men's foil fencing, with all competitions to be held on 29 July. | 4,055 |
Solomon Islands at the 2020 Summer Olympics (nom) | none | One of the "foo at the YYYY Summer Olympics" hooks; can run on any day during the Olympics | 12,506 | ||
Alyssa Mendoza (nom) | none | 30 July | Queue 7 | Assuming that she is still featherweight, the women's 57 kg boxing competition begins on 30 July with the round of 32. | 8,941 |
Andy Barat (nom) | none | 30 July | Queue7 | Barat is going to compete in the men's slalom K-1, and that competition has its heats on 30 July. That's unfortunately the third article for this date. Before you promote to prep, please see the discussion above about combining this with the Alyssa Mendoza hook. | 5,982 |
Valentin Houinato (nom) | none | 30 July | Queue7 | Nominated to DYK late in the process. Houinato is set to compete in the men's 81 kg judo event, with all competitions held on 30 July | 5,618 |
Shachar Sagiv (nom) | none | 30 July | Queue7 | Men's triathlon is scheduled for 30 July starting at 8:00 | 2,221 |
Matthew Wright (triathlete) (nom) | none | 30 July | Queue7 | Nominated to DYK late in the process. Wright is set to compete in the men's triathlon, which is scheduled for 30 July starting at 8:00. Is there an opportunity to combine the two triathletes in this set into one hook if both nominations get reviewed in time? | 3,770 |
Dylan Travis (nom) | none | 31 July | Queue 1 | The first USA men's 3x3 game is on 30 July. Subsequent games are on 31 July, 1, 2, and 4 August if that date gets too crowded. | 9,788 |
2024 United States men's Olympic basketball team (nom) | 28 July | 31 July | Queen1 | The U.S. team plays in the preliminary round on 28 and 31 July and on 3 August. We already have too many hooks for 28 July, so any of the other two options will work better. | 11,252 |
Marcedes Walker (nom) | None | 1 August | Queue 2 | Walker is going to compete in the women's 3x3 basketball competition and they are playing a round robin round-robin tournament from 30 July to 3 August, playing every day. Hence, there's heaps of flexibility moving this hook around to suit. | 9,324 |
Warren Lawrence (nom) | none | 1 August | Queue2 | Nominated to DYK late in the process. Lawrence is set to compete in the men's 50 metre freestyle event, with heats and semifinals on 1 August. | 2,619 |
Suriname at the 1960 Summer Olympics (nom) | none | 1 August | Queue2 | One of the "foo at the YYYY Summer Olympics" hooks; can run on any day during the Olympics | 8,007 |
Emily Ausmus (nom) | none | 2 August | Queue 3 | Ausmus is competing in the women's water polo tournament in Group B, with preliminary round games held on 27, 29, and 31 July, and a game on 2 August. Any of those dates are suitable. | 7,627 |
Philippines at the 1924 Summer Olympics (nom) | none | 2 August | Queue3 | One of the "foo at the YYYY Summer Olympics" hooks; can run on any day during the Olympics. We do have an image but it's of rather poor quality. | 5,459 |
2024 World Athletics Relays – Mixed 4 × 400 metres relay (nom) | 2/3 August | 3 August | Queue 4 | The mixed 4 × 400 metres relay is scheduled for 2 and 3 August 2024.[5] | 4,961 |
Filomenaleonisa Iakopo (nom) | none | 3 August | Queue4 | Iakopo is scheduled to compete in the women's 100 metres, with the preliminary round scheduled to be held on 3 August. | 8,179 |
Apsara Sakbun (nom) | none | 3 August | Queue4 | Sakbun is going to compete in women's 50 metre freestyle swimming, with heats and semi-finals on 3 August. | 5,166 |
Mikaella Moshe (nom) | None | 3 August | Queue4 | Women's individual archery is already underway, so this can run anytime we want. That said, the finals are on 3 August. | 7,423 |
2022 European Athletics Championships – Women's 400 metres and 2022 European Athletics Championships – Women's 400 metres hurdles (nom) | none | 4 August | Queue 5 | ![]() |
809 |
Liechtenstein at the 1936 Summer Olympics (nom) | none | 4 August | Queue5 | One of the "foo at the YYYY Summer Olympics" hooks; can run on any day during the Olympics | 11,275 |
Kim Ye-ji (sport shooter) (nom) | none | 4 August | Queue5 | Has already competed; can run anytime | 39,422 |
Piper Kelly (nom) | None | 5 August | Queue 6 | Qualifications for women's speed climbing are on 5 Aug. | 7,202 |
Aniya Holder (nom) | 5 August | 5 August | Queue6 | Qualifications for women's speed climbing are on 5 Aug. | 4,329 |
Jamal Valizadeh (nom) | 5 August | 5 August | Queue6 | A late request. Valizadeh is set to competed in the men's Greco-Roman 60 kg competition, with proceedings kicking off on 5 August. | 10,928 |
Jenya Kazbekova (nom) | 6/8 August | 6 August | Queue 7 | Kazbekova is due to compete in women's combined sport climbing, with semifinals for the two competition elements (boulder and lead) split over two days: 6 & 8 August. Hence, this can run on either date. | 5,095 |
Zheng Haohao (nom) | none | 6 August | Queue7 | Zheng is due to compete in women's park skateboarding on 6 Aug. | 13,465 |
1964 Summer Olympics medal table (nom) | None | 6 August | Queue7 | Can run whenever. If Jamal Valizadeh gets signed off before Q6 goes live, we'll shift this backwards. | 4,806 |
Ruby Remati (nom) | None | 7 August | Queue 1 | The team artistic swimming event will be held on 5, 6, and 7 August. The hook could run on any of those days. | 8,049 |
Hadi Tiranvalipour (nom) | none | 7 August | Queue 1 | Tiranvalipour is set to competed in the men's 58 kg taekwondo on 7 August. | 6,545 |
Jesse Grupper (nom) | 7 August | 7 August | Queue 1 | Grupper is going to compete in the lead semifinal of the men's combined rock climbing. That date is not far away but if we can get this reviewed in a hurry, it'll fit into that date alright as we've only got other other nominations (on most days, we have three). | 7,069 |
Emmanuella Atora (nom) | 8 August | 8 August | Queue 2 | Atora is due to compete in women's 57 kg taekwondo (assuming that she's still in this weight class). The competition is to be held on 8 August. | 9,406 |
Sarah Levy (rugby union) (nom) | None | 8 August | Queue 2 | Can run whenever. | 4,845 |
Manizha Talash (nom) | none | 9 August | Queue 3 | Breaking or breakdancing is a new sport. Who would have known. The competition for females is on 9 August. | 11,032 |
Logan Edra (nom) | none | 9 August | Queue3 | Here's our second female breakdancer. Any chance of combining the two hooks? | 20,439 |
Sunny Choi (nom) | 9 August | 9 August | Queue3 | Well, that's our third female breakdancer. We really shouldn't have three individuals hooks for breakdancers on the same day. I've suggested a hook with this nomination and propose that we close the other two nominations and transfer the credits across. | 17,388 |
Gaku Akazawa (nom) | none | 10 August | Queue 4 | Akazawa is going to compete in the men's freestyle wrestling 65 kg, with the event scheduled to start on 10 August. | 7,387 |
Alasan Ann (nom) | none | 10 August | Queue4 | Ann is going to compete in the men's taekwondo +80 kg, with all events scheduled for 10 August. | 5,697 |
Kennedy Blades (nom) | none | 10 August | Queue4 | Blades is going to compete in the women's freestyle wrestling 76 kg, with the event scheduled to start on 10 August. | 32,679 |
Ada Korkhin (nom) | none | 11 August | Prep 5 | The women's 25 metre pistol competition is already underway and will finish on 3 August. Hence, this can run whenever. Currently scheduled for the closing ceremony date. | 6,593 |
Minna Stess (nom) | none | 11 August | Prep 5 | Stess is set to compete in the women's park skateboarding event on 6 August. There are three hooks in Queue7 already, which will be published on that day. One of those—1964 Summer Olympics medal table—could theoretically be shifted back, but I've done enough hook shuffling lately. If it gets signed off in time, I shall defer to another admin to make it happen on that day. The alternative day that I've picked here is the day of the closing ceremony; that involves a lot less effort to make this happen. | 5,849 |
Finn Butcher (nom) | 11 August | 11 August | Prep 5 | ![]() |
3,987 |
Olympics debrief
For some reason, Narutolovehinata5 closed the Olympics item above before I had even added the remaining 11 August views to the table. The one thing that I wanted to do is to have a debrief. Here's what went well – the table below shows all the target articles that received more than 10,000 views (and note that I haven't done any adjustment for base views as that's too hard during the Olympics). The absolute standout was the triple-hook featuring the breakdancers. My hunch was there would be quite a bit of interest in the topic, with this being a new sport. But it far exceeded my expectations, with a combined total of 48,859 views for the three articles, and each of them individually getting over the 10,000 mark.
Article and nomination | Published | Hook | Comments | Views |
---|---|---|---|---|
Kim Ye-ji (sport shooter) (nom) | 4 Aug 2024 | ... that Kim Ye-ji's performance in the 10 meter air pistol at the 2024 Summer Olympics led her to be dubbed the "coolest person on the planet"? | Stunning hook that ran after she competed; Kim had gone viral and any hook with her name in it would have produced high views. | 39,422 |
Kennedy Blades (nom) | 10 Aug 2024 | ... that female wrestler Kennedy Blades once won a state championship against boys? | Great hook that ran on the day she won silver. | 32,679 |
Logan Edra (nom) | 9 Aug 2024 | ... that while Sunny Choi and Logan Edra represent their country at the Olympics in breakdancing, Afghan breakdancer Manizha Talash competes as a member of the IOC Refugee Olympic Team? | Part of a triple hook; fabulous result for being part of a mass nomination. Total hook views are 48,859. | 20,439 |
Adam Maraana (nom) | 29 Jul 2024 | ![]() |
Lead hooks often do well. | 18,400 |
Sunny Choi (nom) | 9 Aug 2024 | ... that while Sunny Choi and Logan Edra represent their country at the Olympics in breakdancing, Afghan breakdancer Manizha Talash competes as a member of the IOC Refugee Olympic Team? | Part of a triple hook; fabulous result for being part of a mass nomination. | 17,388 |
Ri Jong-yol (nom) | 22 Jul 2024 | ... that North Korean child prodigy Ri Jong-yol defected to South Korea after winning silver at the 2016 International Mathematical Olympiad in Hong Kong? | One of the warmup hooks that did very well. | 14,746 |
Zheng Haohao (nom) | 6 Aug 2024 | ... that after qualifying for the 2024 Summer Olympics at the age of 11, skateboarder Zheng Haohao became the youngest Chinese sportsperson to participate in the Olympics? | Great hook that did well | 13,465 |
Solomon Islands at the 2020 Summer Olympics (nom) | 30 Jul 2024 | ... that a law was signed so that the Solomon Islands delegation could return home from the 2020 Summer Olympics? | Fabulous hook fact | 12,506 |
Camil Doua (nom) | 26 Jul 2024 | ... that Olympic swimmer Camil Doua represents a country in which "the only existing swimming pools are those in hotels"? | We excluded this hook from a mass nomination because it was a compelling fact – that was the correct decision. | 11,595 |
Liechtenstein at the 1936 Summer Olympics (nom) | 4 Aug 2024 | ... that for the 1936 Summer Olympics, Liechtenstein flipped their flag upside down? | Strong hook fact that did as well as I expected it to do. | 11,275 |
2024 United States men's Olympic basketball team (nom) | 31 Jul 2024 | ... that Cameroonian-born Joel Embiid opted to play for the 2024 U.S. Olympic basketball team instead of France in part because his son is American? | Anything mentioning this team's name is going to do well, I suppose. | 11,252 |
Lilia Cosman (nom) | 28 Jul 2024 | ... that at age 15, Lilia Cosman moved from the United States to Romania to compete for Romania's Olympic gymnastics team? | This hook did much better than I had expected. | 11,042 |
Manizha Talash (nom) | 9 Aug 2024 | ... that while Sunny Choi and Logan Edra represent their country at the Olympics in breakdancing, Afghan breakdancer Manizha Talash competes as a member of the IOC Refugee Olympic Team? | Part of a triple hook; fabulous result for being part of a mass nomination. Talash managed to get herself disqualified for displaying a political slogan during competition, which would no doubt have contributed to interest in her. | 11,032 |
Jamal Valizadeh (nom) | 5 Aug 2024 | ... that after Jamal Valizadeh was tortured in Iran, hid for six months, and escaped, he qualified to compete in the Olympics as a member of the Refugee Olympic Team? | Strong hook fact. | 10,928 |
Lorrane Oliveira (nom) | 28 Jul 2024 | ![]() |
That's the other lead hook that we had. | 10,444 |
We ran 70 articles as part of this exercise (there are 68 rows in the management table, with 2 rows having 2 hooks each). That was a lot of work to manage. I didn't get anywhere near as much help compared to the last Olympics. But when I went away for a week, it kept ticking over nicely. Thanks to those who stepped in.
Some contributors put forward a lot of those articles. BeanieFan11 easily stands out as the most prolific contributor – well done.
What didn't go well? I think there was too much "traffic" on this DYK talk page, probably annoying the crap out of anyone who has this page on their watchlist without being interested in sport. Maybe we should have set up a sub-page to manage this? I guess what's related is that some editors moaned at me for doing things that those who did contribute to the discussion had agreed to. It feels somewhat disheartening to put in an hour or two every day for many weeks, and in return to be moaned at quite a bit by those who had not kept up with what had been agreed.
One such example was RoySmith not wanting to run the triple hook that ended up being the absolute star performer. He suggested dropping two of the three articles; those two articles received nearly 38,000 views between them.
Things that we could do better next time may include:
- start much earlier and agree on a way to do this; draft a timeline for what needs to be done by when
- consider a separate management page that's not hosted on WT:DYK
- those editors with a negative disposition are most welcome to contribute to the discussion on how to do the exercise next time, but I'm absolutely not interested in being at the receiving end of negativity about things that the community has agreed to; maybe those editors could exercise some self-restraint in future
- write up what's been agreed to and that's what could be shared at WT:DYK
- encourage the wider Wiki community to write new articles and nominate them in the six weeks prior to the Olympics starting; things were definitely too "last minute" a lot of the time
- we could, for example, consider a watchlist notice
- in turn, be more hard-nosed about late nominations
- I'd like to see the Olympics hooks marked as such, e.g. by adding the Olympic rings to each hook; that means that those with an interest in the Olympics will find it much easier to find the topic even if it doesn't include the word "Olympics"
If others have different or additional ideas, now is the time to write this down. And many thanks to AirshipJungleman29, who left a Barnstar on my talk page for this Olympics initiative. Schwede66 03:13, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
Comments
I was involved in the 2023 Christmas set, which was more chaotic than this. I appreciated the organisation for the Olympics, and would like this to be a model for other special occasions. Some observations in response to the above:
- Yes, starting early is ideal, and it takes someone with the initiative to do so. If anyone is interested in organising a special occasion prep set, please start at least 6 weeks ahead of time.
- I was not bothered by the conversation and watchlist notices on WT:DYK. If it is moved to another page, many editors will miss the conversation. Maybe keep the discussion on WT:DYK, but move the organising table to an organising page?
- There are always negative editors whenever anything is done on Wikipedia, unfortunately, and the lead organiser gets the brunt of it.
- It would be awesome if articles were written ahead of time, but some people on Wikipedia (including me) are fantastic procrastinators and will do things last minute no matter what. In the 2023 Christmas set, I looked for articles at WP:GAN and reviewed them so that they could be included in the set.
- Watchlist notice would be awesome, but I would combine it with a wider initiative like Wiki Loves Sports. A notification for DYK only might be received negatively.
- Adding a symbol after the hooks would be cool. I would also like it if, when there was a special occasions prep set, that a signifier or sentence be added to the top of the DYK template.
Are there any plans to continue this for the 2024 Summer Paralympics? Z1720 (talk) 03:41, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for your support throughout this campaign, @Z1720. You say:
move the organising table to an organising page
. That can be done if if we transclude the table back onto this page, it significantly cuts down on the number of edits appearing in watchlists. Good way of doing it. As for the Paralympics, I'll give that a miss. Schwede66 05:35, 13 August 2024 (UTC)- I do just want to go on record as saying that Kim Ye-ji, my contribution, was written after she went viral, so I physically could not have filled out her article to 1500 characters much earlier.--Launchballer 06:28, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- My suggestion is more of a general one: I agree that if we are to do themed sets and projects like this, they have to be done well in advance, and more importantly need consensus. We don't want a repeat of that St. James set we had a while back which ended up causing more trouble than it was worth, especially when it lacked consensus. For projects like this, my suggestion would be discussing them at least two months ahead of time (for multi-day projects), or a month ahead of time (for sets), and ideally earlier. This is to ensure that editors are onboard with such sets in the first place, and only when consensus is reached, or at least appears to be heading in that direction, can work properly begin. The last thing we need is projects that people just end up doing without DYK regulars actually signing off on it. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:54, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think any specific time limits are needed. The only thing that is certainly needed is consensus at this page, especially where some aspect of the themed set/project may end up violating WP:DYKCRIT (most probably as in this case, the prohibition against more than two hooks on the same subject). ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:38, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
Thank you
This was a huge amount of work done in the classic spirit of volunteerism; some people saw something they felt needed doing and they organized themselves to get it done as a public service. Thank you to everybody who was involved. I know I grumbled about some of the process. To everybody who was on the receiving end of my grumbling, I offer my apologies. Please don't let my occasional grumpiness get in the way of celebrating a job well done. RoySmith (talk) 12:10, 16 August 2024 (UTC)