Talk:Mill (grinding)

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On 20 December 2017, it was proposed that this article be moved from Mill (grinding) to Mill. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

References[edit]

The Kicks and Rittinger constant calculation requires reference. I haven't found an article which states the same relationship. Looks 'fishy' Wilhelmjacob (talk) 20:39, 26 April 2016 (UTC)WJ[reply]

Merge[edit]

I think that this article and grinder (milling) should be merged since they appear to be the same thing. -- Kjkolb 12:51, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As someone that works with Mills I think that is a good idea. I think it would be closer to commonly used terminology if you went with the title Mill (Grinding) as no one I am aware of calls them "grinders". Hope to maybe oneday update this section on Minerals Processing. 121.44.125.54 14:24, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This stuff definitely needs merging and more detail needs to be added. Recommend we use the Mill (grinding) as the main and use the Grinder (mill) as a redirect. Chris 21:20, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Done - Soime one appears to have undertaken the suggested merge. Thank you. Peterkingiron 16:39, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Scope of article[edit]

Some of the cross-references at the end appear to sit incongruously alongside the content. I do not quite see where grinding between two millstones (as in a conr mill) or under an edge runner as in an olive or cider mill fit inot the pattern described. Could some one please think about this? Peterkingiron 16:39, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Images available[edit]

Two images of a groundwood grinder available at Commons. Failed to understand whether they fit the format of the article (I am not an ingeneur), so I place them here meanwhile. Alexei Kouprianov 14:12, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Question Regarding SAG Mills[edit]

I am curious as to how much power a SAG Mill uses (KW). If someone could expand on the SAG mill section of this article, it would be great! Wipware (talk) 17:59, 14 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

ball mill discription[edit]

What is this reference in the discription of a ball mill that says "drawing approximately 0.0011% of the total world's power (see List of countries by electricity consumption)". I don't see anything on the List of countries by electricity consumption that has anything to do with percentage of use by groups of machines. This seems very bizzare. Chickpeana (talk) 09:20, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 20 December 2017[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. After 22 days and a relisting (long enough for more relistings), consensus eludes us. As usual with a no consensus decision, there is no prejudice toward future efforts of editors to seek the highest and best titles for these pages. Happy New Year to All! (closed by page mover) Paine Ellsworth ^put'r there 04:05, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Mill (grinding) → Mill
Mill → Mill (disambiguation)

– The content at Mill (grinding) almost seems like a WP:DABCONCEPT article for the majority of the subjects listed at Mill, the disambiguation page. In turn, that essentially means that the subject at Mill (grinding) is the primary topic for the word "Mill". Steel1943 (talk) 17:43, 20 December 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. bd2412 T 19:36, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose the change from Mill(grinding) to Mill. Mill (grinding) contains a number of types of mill, but these are only a small subset of the types of mill. For instance the Milling machine page referred to in the Mill page refers to a number of other machines which are often called mills, but are not grinding mills; and the current Mill page refers to e.g. building types such as textile mill which are nothing to do with grinding. This is an old word with many uses and distinguishing grinding mills from the rest is very useful. The assertion above that Mill (grinding) is the primary topic for mill is untrue.
I have no opinion on the proposed change to the Mill page itself.

Gravuritas (talk) 18:10, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Here’s an example of non- grinding mills. Given that WP generally is poor on industrial topics, adapting the structure to reflect current inadequacies just bakes-in silliness. The world of mills is not so dominated by grinding mills that WP should pretend that it is.

https://www.xyzmachinetools.com/machines/mills/

Gravuritas (talk) 06:38, 2 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support clear primary topic as the majority of other pages in the disambiguation are different types of grinding mills. Secondly, no one will ever search for "treadmill" with "mill"._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 10:41, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Other industrial senses of a "mill" can be mentioned in the article. bd2412 T 01:31, 30 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as the articles are currently written. There are numerous very important types of mills that are not grinding mills. In much of the contemporary world, mills from steel mills to textile mills to the currency mill are more important than grinding mills. A reader is better served with a disambiguation page that quickly links to these uses than having to scroll through...

In spite of a great number of studies in the field of fracture schemes there is no formula known which connects the technical grinding work with grinding results. To calculate the needed grinding work against the grain size changing three half-empirical models are used. These can be related to the Hukki relationship between particle size and the energy required to break the particles. In stirred mills, the Hukki relationship does not apply and instead, experimentation has to be performed to determine any relationship.

Kick for d > 50 mm

W_{K}=c_{k}(\ln(d_{A})-\ln(d_{E}))\,

Bond for 50 mm > d > 0.05 mm

W_{B}=c_{B}\left({\frac {1}{{\sqrt {d}}_{E}}}-{\frac {1}{{\sqrt {d}}_{A}}}\right)\,

Von Rittinger for d < 0.05 mm

W_{R}=c_{R}\left({\frac {1}{d_{E}}}-{\frac {1}{d_{A}}}\right)\,

with W as grinding work in kJ/kg, c as grinding coefficient, d_A as grain size of the source material and d_E as grain size of the ground material.

A reliable value for the grain sizes d_A and d_E is d₈₀. This value signifies that 80% (mass) of the solid matter has a smaller grain size. The Bond's grinding coefficient for different materials can be found in various literature. To calculate the KICK's and Rittinger's coefficients following formulas can be used

$c_{K}=1.151c_{B}(d_{BU})^{-0.5}\,$

$c_{R}=0.5c_{B}(d_{BL})^{0.5}\,$

with the limits of Bond's range: upper d_BU = 50 mm and lower d_BL = 0.05 mm.

...to find out they are in the wrong place. — AjaxSmack 20:28, 30 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Information I have text-merged the long disambig-type list of types of mills from Mill (grinding) to the disambig page Mill. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:13, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Anthony Appleyard – I partially reverted the merge, restoring the classification at Mill (grinding), but it was hard to separate grain from chaff at Mill (disambiguation). I think that mill classification helps the reader in this article. Boy, the dab page needs a major cleanup, so I'll tag it appropriately. It's probably the worst violation of WP:PTM I've seen recently. No such user (talk)
However, in retrospect, I think that you did a good job at classification in Mill (disambiguation). I just don't think it belongs there. No such user (talk) 15:37, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – As said by others, many mills are not about grinding. Disambiguation is good. Dicklyon (talk) 03:58, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. While Mill (grinding) needs cleanup, particularly in moving that physics stuff elsewhere, it is still a clearcut WP:DABCONCEPT and the primary meaning of wikt:mill. The dab page needs a thorough cleanup, being the worst case of WP:PTM I've seen recently. But I don't think that steel mill or textile mill even belong there, and it's hardly expected that anyone would search for them by "mill". No such user (talk) 15:32, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Pearl milling[edit]

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The Aunt_Jemima article links to this article. In that article, the phrase "Rutt and Underwood's "Pearl Milling Company" utilized a pearl milling technique to produce flour, cornmeal, ..." has the word "milling" linked here.

But this article does not mention pearl milling, and does not contain the word "pearl". One of these two articles would benefit from a clarification. I would do it, but I am also confused by this: "Pearl Milling Company is a nod to the small mill in Missouri that produced the self-rising pancake mix later known as Aunt Jemima in 1889", at https://nypost.com/2021/02/10/critics-slam-aunt-jemimas-new-name-pearl-milling-company/. Maybe the issue is all within the Aunt Jemima article: At Google, I can't find any mention of a "pearl milling technique", so "pearl" might be a town and not a technique... 73.127.147.187 (talk) 08:10, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As the link is on "milling" and not "pearl milling", I don't see the issue. - Rich^T|C|E-Mail 12:06, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the Aunt Jemima article mentions a "pearl milling technique". That article, I suppose, ought to define that term instead of relying on its inter-wiki link to "mill" to provide the definition. It's not this article's fault. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 20:44, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bold edit to the Grinding laws seciton[edit]

I stumbled on this article while looking for something else and wondered what the heck a Hukki relationship was. I don't know anything about the topic, couldn't find that info in WP, and had a hard time tracking it down elsewhere online. I have WP:BOLDly added this info to the article, reformatting parts of this section in the process. I have added cites, including a cite of the 1961 Hukki paper, which I have not read.

I don't think I screwed anything up here, but I ask editors more familiar with this topic than I to take a look at what I've done and make any needed corrections.

I also stumbled across this figure which would probably be useful in this article. That particular image probably has copyright issues, but perhaps some editor might produce a similar image for insertion here. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 08:35, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Navicular mill[edit]

I just saw a reference to a “navicular mill”, but google can’t seem to find anything about it on the internet. See: [1]. It’s possible that this is an mistranslation of a Spanish term. Peter Flass (talk) 13:29, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]