User talk:Mattythewhite/Archive 42

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Archive 35

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Archive 40

English language - Reply

Sure thing, here is the translation (by the way, again no reply on the Lucas Hernández front beats me why, but AGAIN the IP inserted YouTube pages as "sources" - and I reverted, PLEASE tell if i am correct on this or not - also pinging me on the article's talk where I now went and told them the same),

"My man, can you find some statistics from Tercera División (and thus, from Real Madrid C) of this player? Maybe at the Madrilenian football federation? Matty did it once at Vicente Guaita (similar case, this time in Valencia CF Mestalla), and removed everything, these folks only know remove, remove and remove, even though the data is not strange.

World Cup ends tomorrow, but team season gets underway, this goes on and on! Now, in Portugal, everyone supports Juventus apparently, pathetic... Regards, thanks in advance (P.S. don't edit Mejías' article in the next hour, I am inserting refs)"

Apologies if you feel offended by parts of the message (or the whole thing), not my intention but it's just i never understood those actions. Shouldn't the subject of the article contact WP to complain about something/provide correct data if the data was inacurrate? Provided they do not do so, shouldn't WP assume the data is CORRECT?

However, both you and User:GiantSnowman should never doubt my level of engagement, I may disagree with you strongly in this department but I never reinserted stuff after you removed it (without sources, that is). Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 17:19, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

P.S. I wrote to MYS77 in Portuguese because it's his mothertongue as well as mine, nothing wrong with that is there? I have seen several discussions held at talkpages here in foreign language, and not one single note/warning received (not that i believe they merit it)... --Quite A Character (talk) 17:21, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

It's not wrong as such to communicate in a foreign language, but it is discouraged as it obviously makes it difficult for most editors to become involved in a discussion. The comment you left on MYS77's talk page is a case in point, as I feel I should have a right of reply as I was mentioned by name. I translated your comment using Google Translate before leaving that notice on your talk page, and one passage it brought up was "these people only know to take, take and take even if they are not surprising data". Now I know Google Translate isn't the most accurate, and I don't want to accuse you of saying something you haven't, but the tone of that is somewhat different to what you offered above.

This takes me back to the discussion we had a short while back about Vicente Guaita. Content should be covered by reliable sources, in accordance with WP:RS and WP:V. It does not matter that content is true, but rather that it can be verified by reliable sources. So the Real Madrid C stats might be completely correct in reality, but that is neither here nor there while they are not referenced. For all we know, they could be have been added with mistakes included or, even worse, are intentionally incorrect. The amount of fake statistics vandals attempt to insert on here is staggering, and we should not *assume* they are correct unless they can be verified.

Your argument that we should only remove or alter content if the "subject of the article contact WP to complain" troubles me. Notable subjects are probably never going to look at their WP articles, let alone go through them with a fine-tooth comb to look for errors. Even if they did, are they going to be that bothered to contact someone here about it? And maybe they're quite happy to have erroneous data to their name, such as if it inflates their appearances tally?

Both in this situation and in the one at Vicente Guaita, I really can't see how the removal of unsourced content is proving to be such a controversial topic. If it were content that were easily sourced I could understand, but we're talking about appearance data in the fourth-tier of Spain which looks to not be available online. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:04, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

I understand you completely and you have been quite assertive and thorough in every topic, and I surely do apologise for any inconvenience (everything goes over my head more often than not regarding the site guidelines, it seems - sadly - I have to be CONSTANTLY reminded about them). You say your GT "operations" conveyed a different thing than what i wrote above, but my conscience is at ease because i never wanted to belittle or be insulting/condescending.

I have addressed every citation tag at Mr. Mejías piece, and inserted a box ref for his MADRID C stuff (not sure if it's reliable, maybe User:MYS77 will fare better as he often does). Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 18:17, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Wikirelationship

Matty, i sincerely hope this glaring mistake in approach on my part does not constitute the end of our wikirelationship. I sincerely (again) apologise for my shortcomings, and i also do acknowledge i am not the most gregarious editor and that some of my summaries are downright rubbish.

Attentively, from Portugal --Quite A Character (talk) 22:21, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Don't worry about it. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:06, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the patience. So, going from here, the "beef" at Lucas Hernández continues. I told the IP YouTube is not reliable and the IP says it is so (go figure)! I have given up on the matter, but trimmed down the SEVEN YT "sources" to only two. If you want to revert/remove further, goes without saying i will not contest it... --Quite A Character (talk) 20:37, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Seems the IP took no offence of me trimming down the tsunami of YT videos, maybe a compromise has been reached and we can keep those two (or maybe just one, whatever you decide), after all they show FRENCH sports broadcasters correctly pronouncing his name. --Quite A Character (talk) 23:15, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Troublesome user?

Regarding the last warning you left in this user's page (plase see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Aavelarx), just to notify you they went at it in Thiago Motta with the same M.O., and I reverted. Was I correct? --Quite A Character (talk) 09:33, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Whatever, reverted myself, sick and tired of this lack of consensus (furthermore, as Mr. Motta won many accolades, maybe the runner-ups are not deemed necessary)! If you choose to re-revert, that's your call ;) --Quite A Character (talk) 11:15, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Blocked

Hi mate i referenced Sky Italy in my Alisson Changes I dont see the problem? JoeMaloney5 (talk) 15:40, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Not properly you didn't. Mattythewhite (talk) 15:41, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) If the source you were trying to add was this one, then there is no confirmation in it that the deal has been completed. It might not happen until Saturday.. Nzd (talk) 15:50, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Changes

Wouldn't it be easier to find a reliable source yourself instead of deleting the changes that I had made? All I was changing is what was already published on the Blackpool FC season page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smithy53 (talk • contribs) 23:34, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

WP:BURDEN. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:37, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Richarlison

Richarlison has moved to Everton. I added this and you said I was vandalising. Quite rude. Hazo120 (talk) 18:44, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

You didn't provide a support to verify your claim, and considering you've quite a prolific history for adding unsourced content, I feel it's quite fair to describe the edit as vandalism. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:47, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

RS

Hello, do you know if this can be considered RS? Cheers. Eagleash (talk) 20:47, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

It looks like it's owned by Astro, a Malaysian TV network, so I imagine it probably is. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:53, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Eagleash (talk) 20:57, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Lee Grant

I understand what you mean about pre-season not usually being notable, but since the game I wrote about was Grant's Manchester United debut, don't you think it warrants a mention? The business User:Aurora 99 put in about his temporary squad number can go for sure, but... debut! – Pee Jay 16:04, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Surely only *competitive* debuts are worthy of mention? We don't include pre-season friendlies in our statistics, so why would we in the prose? Mattythewhite (talk) 16:09, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

If it's the first time a player has *ever* played for a club, I think it's worth mentioning in the prose. Totally agreed on stats, of course, but to me prose is supposed to include content that you wouldn't necessarily include in a summary box or table. – Pee Jay 23:17, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Bootham Crescent scheduled for TFA

This is to let you know that I've scheduled Bootham Crescent to appear on the main page as today's featured article on August 31, 2018. If you need to make tweaks to the blurb, it is at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/August 31, 2018. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:37, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Which is 82 years to the day since the ground was officially opened. Good stuff. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:29, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Matty, are you interested in writing the TFA blurb for this one? - Dank (push to talk) 19:13, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

I've finished all the others, and we're on the clock here, so I'll get started ... jump in if you like, or you can edit it after I'm done. - Dank (push to talk) 17:48, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

Although I've always been an Anglophile, British English isn't my native language, so please check my work. The character count is near the upper end of what's acceptable at TFA (given that we're also listing the Featured Topic). - Dank (push to talk) 21:19, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

User:Ergotelis123

An disruptive as can be, as the name indicates works on players of his favourite club. Engages in overlinking like no tomorrow, adds no refs to their "texts" and creates statistical charts using ZEROZERO.PT (user-generated) as "source".

Some good examples? Beto (Brazilian footballer, born 1976) or Manoel Júnior, which i have already reverted (in the latter, they removed the reliable FORADEJOGO.NET link without one word in the summary, but kept ZEROZERO, with this last web also being used to "source" Júnior's storyline). I would appreciate your intake, if it's not too much trouble.

Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 19:17, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

Their "misdemeanours" seem quite historic so I won't warn them but let me know if they start editing disruptively again. Mattythewhite (talk) 00:02, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Antonio Conte

Hey Matty. Sorry for the previous unsourced edit. I accidentally pressed the Publish Changes button, realized my mistake, tried to add citation, but got kicked off my Internet. May I ask if SB Nation is a reliable source? - Azboi (push to talk) 18:31, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

SB Nation is owned by Vox Media so I think it should be. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:53, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Morgan Schneiderlin

Hi, I have noticed that the same user you've warned just a couple of days ago has changed Mr Schneiderlin's number from 2 to 18 however, I still believe that would be unsourced content as the official Everton website has not yet updated their squad numbers (plus 18 is currently reserved for Gylfi Sigurðsson as time of this edit. Iggy (Swan) 20:32, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Blocked for 36 hours for continually adding unsourced content. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:52, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Toby Alderweireld

Can you protect for a while? Some unreliable tabloid reports re. Man. U. have led to multiple unsourced changes and some vandalism. I have already restored the page three times in the last hour or so. Eagleash (talk) 09:50, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Note: It's been protected. Thanks. Eagleash (talk) 12:48, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Edits

https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1023229324437139461?s=19 Theres your source, look at the numbers that Morgan Schneiderlin and Gylfi Sigurdsson were wearing. Saw someone say that their numbers are on the everton website, well on the everton website theres two players with number 11 and two players with number 30, the website needs updating and isnt a reliable source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hazo120 (talk • contribs) 10:11, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Pre-season numbers aren't necessarily the numbers that will be worn once the season starts. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:12, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Orrin Hatch

Hello Matthew,

Please could you semi-protect the page Orrin Hatch, because people continue to vandalize it time and time again. Thanks!

Uebelhoer (Talk), July 31, 2018, 7:25 (UTC)

One disruptive edit in the last four days, don't think semi-protection is required at the moment. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:27, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - August 2018

Delivered August 2018 by MediaWiki message delivery.
If you do not wish to receive the newsletter, please add an N to the column against your username on the Project Mainpage.

11:55, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Lonergan

Hi mate, Lonergan signed for Boro today. It's on the BBC and twitter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonwinstanley (talk • contribs) 20:53, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Sources need to be cited in the articles itself, see WP:V and WP:RS. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:10, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

David Luiz

Hello there, I have reverted your edit on this article. "Honours" section has a source in the beginning, I have placed inline citation too now. Cheers. Hitro talk 17:09, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Eurosport, like Soccerway, are notoriously unreliable for citing honours, because they list them regardless of whether the player actually won them. David Luiz was not involved in the 2018 FA Cup Final, so how do we know he received a medal? Mattythewhite (talk) 17:12, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

statto.com

Hello, Matty. I've seen your name in several football histories and, as you are an admin, I'd value your advice about something that's bothering me a bit.

I've been looking at season reviews for Preston and see that, in each of the introductions, statto.com has been cited as the source for historical content. I thought this looked dubious so I tried to click on the site to see what its historical content is like. I'm sure it isn't me or my browser but the site is inaccessible. I did a search for other articles which reference the site and picked out History of Brentford F.C. (1954–1986) as it covers an earlier period. From there, the Statto reference is accessible via Wayback and I see that the site terminated its coverage in 2016.

Do you think statto.com is reliable enough to be referenced up to 2016 or should I escalate it as an unreliable source? Presumably, any references to it in articles from 2016 should be removed?

Thanks very much for your time, Matty, and I hope York City are soon back in the League where they belong. Perhaps the new ground will do the trick. Izzat Kutebar (talk) 07:59, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

@Izzat Kutebar: The statto database was sold off in 2014 to Opta which is a gambling company. Angus Loughran who ran Statto was declared bankrupt in 2008 I am not sure when statto.com ceased but a fact of speaking if it was good enough in 2014 would suggest it was reliable up to 2014. Govvy (talk) 10:01, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, Govvy. That seems a good suggestion to me. The problem is that a couple or more guys are still including it as a default source when creating new articles. I've asked them not to and I'm removing it from the recent season reviews. Thanks again. Izzat Kutebar (talk) 13:30, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

I've used it quite a lot over the years and still do use archives of it on occasion. I've done a quick search of past discussions regarding Statto at WT:FOOTY, and @Struway2:'s comment on this thread suggests it probably wasn't a WP:RS. Thanks, Mattythewhite (talk) 14:49, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Interesting stuff. I'd say, then, that it was probably okay up to 2014 but it definitely shouldn't be in any article about the seasons since then. Struway is right about these people copying from the previous season. Thanks very much. Izzat Kutebar (talk) 14:58, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

I didn't think Statto.com had anything to do with Angus Loughran: Tony Brown mentions another name entirely, and it used the Soccerdata databases.

I would (and do) use the archive copies: I'd have no doubt about its accuracy but as it was never demonstrably RS, I'd use an alternative where available. The free pages at ENFA.co.uk (which is RS and accurate) and 11v11.com (RS but incomplete and difficult) do most of what statto did. Any page on here that claims Statto.com verifies content dated post-2015/16 has definitely just blindly copypasted, and if that's what the chap who creates and maintains many of the English season articles is doing, he wants a smack. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 15:23, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

@Struway2: The connection between Angus Loughran and John Sanders is Ladbrokes, they both worked for the company at the same time. Loughran provided statistical analysis and Sanders was on the database/programming side, statto evolved from there. Govvy (talk) 17:41, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. Pity really, if Mr Sanders was still with us, I imagine the site would be well accepted as RS by now. Still better than nothing, if the relevant archive pages exist. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 17:46, 3 August 2018 (UTC)