User talk:Mattythewhite/Archive 44
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Please be a lot less aggressive in reverting others
I don't know if you are aware of the AN discussion and now ArbCom case against GinatSnowman, but I notice that you share a lot of his behavuiour wrt football articles. Most problematic is your continuous reversal + warning of newbies (IPs or names editors) for the addition of unsourced content. There is no requirement that people use edit summaries or use sources, and warning and reverting them for not using those is WP:BITE behaviour, scaring good-faih, constructive editors away.
For example, you left two warnings at User talk:2604:6000:140E:2128:D10:308C:9FE0:C84D for their edits. The "problematic edit" was the addition of a correct honour at Victor Wanyama. The problem you see with it is that the addition was unsourced; but the whole section was unsourced, so your removal of only this new addition is not really improving anything, but is a) removing correct information, and b) chasing away a good newbie.
Today, you revert an IP edit as "unsourced"[1]. What they were doing was changing the unsourced outdated numbers, replacing them with unsourced up-to-date, correct numbers. Your revert made the article worse, not better.
Please be more careful when reverting editors, and us less WP:BITE and more WP:AGF with them. Fram (talk) 13:30, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Firstly, I'll address your claim that I am reverting and warning editors for not using edit summaries. I am acutely aware that edit summaries are not *mandatory*, rather that is recommended as "considered good practice" to do so, as per H:FIES. I have *never* reverted another editor based on them not including an edit summary. If I have reverted an edit that did not include an edit summary, that is coincidence for there were will have been another reason.
- Re the revert at Victor Wanyama: Just because there was already unsourced content in the honours section doesn't mean we should essentially turn a blind eye to more being added. In response to your point a), that I removed "correct information", I would direct you to WP:V, which states that "All material in Wikipedia mainspace, including everything in articles, lists and captions, must be verifiable". This is Wikipedia policy; I'm a little taken aback to be admonished for applying policy! So your argument that there is "no requirement that people... use sources" doesn't really wash.
- Regarding point b), I wouldn't dispute that they are a "good newbie" or that they're editing in good faith, but again, I'm simply following policy. I placed warnings that were relevant to the editor's changes, which explained what they weren't doing right, which in this case that they were not verifying the content they added with reliable sources. This is in accordance with WP:UW#Introduction. It's not as though I'm blocking editors on sight or writing messages that are aggressive, malicious or assume bad faith.
- Re the revert at André Carrillo: You may not be aware that the statistics at Template:Infobox football biography contain the
|club-update=and|nationalteam-update=parameters. The timestamps in these should be updated *when* editors update the statistics. This is so readers are aware of when the statistics were last updated. In the edit I reverted, the editor updated the statistics but not the timestamp. This means readers will think that eight appearances as at 31 August 2018 is the correct figure, but it is not. In essence, this means the content is incorrect, even though the editor's *intention* was in good faith. Hence, I regularly add this message to editors' talk pages when they do not update the timestamp, to explain to them a) how to do it and b) the importance of doing so. This discussion at WT:FOOTY should give a bit more detail, in which procedure for how to deal with stats updates without timestamp updates should be handled. It led to the development by Nzd (talk · contribs) of the talk page message I referred to above. - I understand your concerns, although while I may have been a little blunt or harsh in the way I dealt with the above, I feel I was ultimately fair and acting in accordance with the spirit of WP policy. Certainly not unduly "aggressive", as the thread title you chose would suggest.
- P.S. I would like to know how I have become seemingly implicated in an ArbCom case relating to another editor? Thanks, Mattythewhite (talk) 14:22, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- You really don't know the (rather important) difference between "verifiable" and "sourced"? Unsourced <> unverifiable, and reverting because something is unsourced is not policy. WP:V says, among many other things, "When tagging or removing material for lacking an inline citation, please state your concern that it may not be possible to find a published reliable source for the content, and therefore it may not be verifiable. If you think the material is verifiable, you are encouraged to provide an inline citation yourself before considering whether to remove or tag it." In this specific case, the editor added a link to another article which "verified" their claim.
- Now, I know, and you know, that Wikipedia is not considered a reliable source on Wikipedia. But try, just for one moment, to think like a newbie. You have an article with a section without any references, and you add another similar entry, which is a) true, b) notable, and c) formatted in the exact same way as the other entries, with a link to an article which confirms the thing you add. This is an edit which should never get reverted. Either you leave it alone, or you add a genuine source, and in that case you can also thank the editor and inform then of how to do it better the next time. But what you did is not productive at all, and hiding behind a very strict reading of policies (or at least of one aspect of the policy, ignoring other aspects which contradict your approach) is not helpful or convincing.
- As for your timestamp problem. Is there any reason, instead of reverting, that you can't simply update the timestamp instead? Leave the message informing the new editor of such arcane rules, fine, but don't revert edits which improve articles for 99% of the readers (but which confuse a few football project members being used to having the "correct" timestamp). Note also that you reverted that change[2] with the edit summary "unsourced", and without leaving a message at the IP talk page; thus leaving them totally clueless as to why you reverted them; in their view, they updated "unsourced" figures to better "unsourced" figures; the timestamp, which they probably didn't even notice, is not a source. So your revert was unhelpful for the reader, and even more so for the editor involved. Not the only such unhelpful edit summary: "in prose"? How is the IP supposed to know what to do, or what the problem was?
- Your PS: I came across your name in many, many articles reverted or rollbacked by GiantSnowman, where you seemed to have the exact same approach (minus, as far as I can tell, the mass rollback). From the AN discussion, it looks as if most editors do not agree with the very aggressive approach taken by a few veteran football project editors / admins. Fram (talk) 15:10, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- If you're happy to see the project littered with unsourced content and partially updated/misleading statistics that's up to you, but I'm not. Makes me wonder why I've volunteered hundreds of hours ensuring that the content I add is comprehensively sourced and that the regular stats updates I make are complete, when the superseding view appears to be that anything goes! I presume I can expect some sort of investigation into my edits sometime into the near future, now I'm a "marked man"? Mattythewhite (talk) 15:38, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Your PS: I came across your name in many, many articles reverted or rollbacked by GiantSnowman, where you seemed to have the exact same approach (minus, as far as I can tell, the mass rollback). From the AN discussion, it looks as if most editors do not agree with the very aggressive approach taken by a few veteran football project editors / admins. Fram (talk) 15:10, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- If you continue to BITE newbies in the same fashion, then yes, I'll raise the issue at the administrator's noticeboard. The hours you spend improving enwiki are a very good thing, but not an excuse to treat new editors the way you too often do. Fram (talk) 15:46, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- I had been planning on making a statement on the ArbCom case but RL has prevented me. I'll try to contribute in some way, either on the case itelf or at project level. As I've been pinged into this conversation, I'll just say now that I do think there are issues that have come out that the project needs to address – I'd like us to follow up on @Kusma's insightful comments, and how we can better communicate with new editors. There is a balancing act: if we're striving to create a resource that is as accurate as possible, then the solution to this isn't to accept bad data, it's to properly explain to these new editors how to contribute in a way that keeps the data accurate. This is fundamentally a data integrity issue, particularly when we're taking about stats, and is core to what we do. When dealing with, for example, data updated without timestamps, or where content is sourced only to user-generated sources like Transfermarkt, I don't really see anything wrong with reverting an edit, in line with WP:V, as "material whose verifiability is challenged or likely to be challenged", then going back and redoing the edit properly when time permits. As long as the issue is explained to the editor. The
{{footyiu}}template is a step in the right direction, but there's a project conversation to be had about what else we can do to bring in new editors, rather than 'firefighting' the bad edits that they will inevitably make. @Fram, FYI @GiantSnowman. Nzd (talk) 00:24, 19 December 2018 (UTC)- That all sounds bang on to me. BTW I hadn't realised that the timestamp message had been turned into a template, that'll come in handy. Mattythewhite (talk) 00:51, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- You can add it as a custom warning in Twinkle so it'll link to the the relevant article. It should work as with any other 'general note' template, and adding an 'optional message' will replace the 'Thank you' at the end. Nzd (talk) 01:20, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- Wow, I didn't even know it was possible to do that. I'm setting it up, but I'm wondering what to write in the "Text to show in warning list" field. What have you put for that? Mattythewhite (talk) 01:35, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- You can add it as a custom warning in Twinkle so it'll link to the the relevant article. It should work as with any other 'general note' template, and adding an 'optional message' will replace the 'Thank you' at the end. Nzd (talk) 01:20, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- That all sounds bang on to me. BTW I hadn't realised that the timestamp message had been turned into a template, that'll come in handy. Mattythewhite (talk) 00:51, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- I had been planning on making a statement on the ArbCom case but RL has prevented me. I'll try to contribute in some way, either on the case itelf or at project level. As I've been pinged into this conversation, I'll just say now that I do think there are issues that have come out that the project needs to address – I'd like us to follow up on @Kusma's insightful comments, and how we can better communicate with new editors. There is a balancing act: if we're striving to create a resource that is as accurate as possible, then the solution to this isn't to accept bad data, it's to properly explain to these new editors how to contribute in a way that keeps the data accurate. This is fundamentally a data integrity issue, particularly when we're taking about stats, and is core to what we do. When dealing with, for example, data updated without timestamps, or where content is sourced only to user-generated sources like Transfermarkt, I don't really see anything wrong with reverting an edit, in line with WP:V, as "material whose verifiability is challenged or likely to be challenged", then going back and redoing the edit properly when time permits. As long as the issue is explained to the editor. The
- If you continue to BITE newbies in the same fashion, then yes, I'll raise the issue at the administrator's noticeboard. The hours you spend improving enwiki are a very good thing, but not an excuse to treat new editors the way you too often do. Fram (talk) 15:46, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
O cool, didn't know I could add that template to twinkle, thanks for that Nzd, cheers. Govvy (talk) 01:42, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
Reporting undisclosed paid editors
Hello! Do you know who I can report undisclosed paid Wikipedia editors to? Thank you! c: Icze4r (talk) 02:04, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
- I reckon the best place to make such a report is WP:COI/N. Mattythewhite (talk) 02:09, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
Add protection on the article please thanks. Govvy (talk) 20:19, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
- The disruptive edits were coming from one IP who seems to have ceased, so I'll refrain for now. Mattythewhite (talk) 01:11, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi Mr Mattythewhite
I'm think i'm finish work Draft:List of islands of Lebanon, could you check it and move it to main space wiki. So thank you ! God bless you Đông Minh (talk) 01:34, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
Matty, what is your intake in this if you please?
Filed a WP:FOOTY report, but only received feedback from the other party involved. Regarding what, you ask? I don't think his Ballon d'Or nominations (mind you, NOMINATIONS, got one vote altogether) are at all important to merit inclusion in the introduction (it's duly mentioned/sourced in the storyline). The other user, most likely an Atlético Madrid fan (you have had some interactions with them on their page), feels not (they are also cluttering players intros with refs that present already either in the prose or the honours section).
Attentively, merry holidays from Portugal --Quite A Character (talk) 19:46, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
- I'm inclined to agree that it's not notable enough for the lead. In the main body of the article, sure. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:52, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
I agree, nothing more in my mind. User talk: Ninad05mestry —Preceding undated comment added 02:26, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
If you get a chance....
There are Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/History of Tottenham Hotspur F.C./archive1, Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Kevin Beattie/archive1 and Wikipedia:Peer review/Cardiff City F.C./archive1 that could do with some input...Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:41, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
Matty, with all the geographical detail we have (in Mr. Jankauskas' case, and at least i try to have all articles like that) in the early storyline, wouldn't you agree with me (i think you did in the past, but can't remember it for sure, so many users, so many talks) that city and country suffice in the infobox? This other user does not accept my proposed compromise, i have left them a message now, and come to you for mediation.
Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 20:42, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- I think it's a little more complicated when it comes to the former USSR republics. I don't know for sure what the standard practice is in such cases. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:49, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
Season's Greetings
|
Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2019! |
|
Hello Mattythewhite, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2019. Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages. |
- Best wishes to you too. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:19, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
Ladapo
Why do I need a source when the goals are quite clearly on Wikipedia anyway, so that in itself is the source? — Preceding unsigned comment added by R4h4al (talk • contribs) 01:05, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
- Agreed. TrottieTrue (talk) 01:30, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
Martin Ødegaard
FYI I reverted the IP per WP:DENY as a sock... GiantSnowman 15:57, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
- I guessed as much, but the update was correct hence my revert. Mattythewhite (talk) 15:58, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
Untitled
How was my editing disruprive — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyler123321467 (talk • contribs) 20:06, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
- How was this edit not disruptive? Mattythewhite (talk) 22:46, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
- Because its true — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyler123321467 (talk • contribs) 23:30, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- WP:OR. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:33, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- Because its true — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyler123321467 (talk • contribs) 23:30, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
There's videos of him playing Sunday league on YouTube if that helps — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyler123321467 (talk • contribs) 23:38, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Jan Bednarek
For confirmation that he is Filips brother, see 90minut.pl external link linked on his page. — Dudek1337 (talk) 18:30, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
- It should be referenced inline, next to the statement. We should not expect our readers to trawl through external links. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:32, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
Happy New Year, Mattythewhite!
Mattythewhite,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
Iggy (Swan) 00:25, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.
- Thanks, same to you :-) Mattythewhite (talk) 16:50, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
Antonio Rudiger
The content I added regarding where he was racially abused was included in the BBC article cited. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/45970660 I would appreciate it if you could take additional measures, like reading the cited source, to confirm that unsourced content was added. Azboi (talk) 01:14, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
Muriel
Today he is officially Fiorentina's player. https://www.football-italia.net/132710/official-muriel-moves-fiorentina Carshalton (talk) 13:13, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
- Okay. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:44, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
Greek IP
Per your last actions in Tiago Mendes (see here https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tiago_Mendes&diff=876674425&oldid=876674077), the following: this person (or persons, but most likely it's the same individual) has a seemingly never-ending array of addresses, in this particular article alone you have reverted two, but I think I have saw nearly 50 IPs to this day.
Their M.O.? Put incorrect years (in Mr. Mendes' case, he signed with Atlético Madrid in January 2010, not summer 2009), and in many many cases (don't know if you ever saw one of that) remove B-teams from boxes which are in many many countries 100% professional even though they are "subordinate" to a parent club, see Sérgio Oliveira for example (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=S%C3%A9rgio_Oliveira&diff=869950697&oldid=864055078).
Suggestions? I'm sure you will know what to do (is range block a possibility as far as you see it?)... Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 12:01, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
- I've worked out the IP range, do you think all or most of these are coming from the same individual? Mattythewhite (talk) 17:20, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
I think it's extremely far-fetched to say we are dealing with more than one person, as ALL the addresses are based in Thessaloniki if i'm not mistaken (i always take the time to press "geolocate" when i come across this behaviour). --Quite A Character (talk) 17:28, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
Robinho
Hello. Robinho is playing in different team in Turkey. Thank you DG Mester (talk) 22:08, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
- I reverted as there was no source to support the change. Mattythewhite (talk) 22:09, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
Soz
Soz Inalol (talk) 15:51, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
- What for...? Mattythewhite (talk) 19:10, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I am not certain if that article should have any definite teams yet since no-one has mathematically secured places yet and with 17 matches left, it may be possible for e.g. Liverpool to be in the bottom 3 but teams below them will drop points. Iggy (Swan) 17:46, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
- Agreed, it seems daft for this article to have any content re that season's teams. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:11, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Language variant templates
Just wondering, why is {{EngvarB}} preferable to {{Use British English}}, and what's the difference? cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:42, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
- I don't know if it is preferable, but it seems to be essentially the same. Per the script documentation, it converts "instances of non-British words detected to 'British spelling'". Mattythewhite (talk) 19:07, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
Again this has happened, i come to you instead of GS because maybe a message to him will result in immediate reversion (not guaranteeing it, just saying). Don't know what on earth he has against external links, but to remove stuff like that (ESPECIALLY BDFUTBOL.com, reliable overall for us and especially in cases like this, Mr. Madinda has spent several years of his career in Spain) and call it "cleanup" (and one also has to wonder why that infobox choice of his is "better" than the other) does not seem very logical in my book. I reached a compromise with GS in the meantime, reinstating the links and keeping his box.
Can you please: 1 - tell me your intake on this; 2 - put article in your watchlist if you happen to agree with me on this one? Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 23:52, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
- I don't have any strong feelings regarding the infobox layouts as they ultimately produce the same output, although I don't understand his removal of the external links. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:58, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
- @Quite A Character: Thanks for notifying me about this discussion (a day later...)
- Anyway, I removed the ELs because due to WP:LINKFARM - we do not need 4/5 near-identical links to stats sites. If they are being used to verify information in the article, cite them in-line. 11:58, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
- @GiantSnowman: Storyline is all referenced, so no need for the links to add extra sourcing. They are just there for easy and quick consultation (and you re-removed NFT.com, and my SOCCERWAY.com entry went directly to Mr. Madinda's "matches" field instead of the "summary", the former showing his apps/goals for Gabon quicker, but I won't be touching that again, no worries). A matter of preference, I see (Matty is an admin and think they should stay - as do I - you are also an admin and think they should not)... Also, I notified you of the discussion (and could easily have not, but do admit that would not have been alright no sir) 12 HOURS later while offering my sincere apologies (which I think you will not accept, can't do much more about that one, I'm afraid). --Quite A Character (talk) 12:12, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
Hey, I was wondering if it was sufficient justification to protect this page on the grounds that nearly every new edit that occurs tends to be vandalism? It's just that edits on that page in general don't occur too often, so I wasn't sure if it was reasonable to request protection. — Anakimilambaste 21:58, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
- I think pending changes would be the most appropriate type of protection here, although I'm not sure there's been enough vandalism to justify even that at this time. Mattythewhite (talk) 22:06, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Matty, i am correct in this assumption no (please read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Stt13#%C3%81lvaro_Morata)? Moreover, i think his 2018/19 season is still too detailed. Morata is drawing many blanks this year, so pretty much all the goals he has scored this campaign are there in the wording.
The season-by-season headlines i'll never understand and i found them just downright ugly, but that's another matter (of preference). Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 20:03, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
- I agree that that content is not notable, not every goal a footballer scores is worthy of mention.
- The subheadings should depend on the size of the section. I would say it is appropriate to have subheadings for around every three paragraphs. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:36, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Agreed, so I reached a compromise. "Compromise" in what, you ask? The user reverted me again without one single word in reply, I re-reverted 50% (kept the sub-headings, removed the goals against Forest). --Quite A Character (talk) 09:51, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
- They have since replied, seems a compromise can/will be reached. --Quite A Character (talk) 13:51, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
Kasey Palmer
Kasey Palmer has joined Bristol city on loan from chelsea check your facts sir Trock13 (talk) 22:19, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
- Please refer to WP:BURDEN. Mattythewhite (talk) 22:20, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
Block evasion
Their previous block just expired. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 13:09, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
- Blocked. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:27, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
Question
Do you sleep? Govvy (talk) 06:09, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
- I'm sorry...? Mattythewhite (talk) 17:34, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
Jake Charles
Hi there, I want to update Jake Charles's stats, he has 6 goals in 13 league games for Stafford, but the club do not have a stats page so would I have to individually reference each match report separately? What would you suggest? Thanks, Cam (talk) 10:36, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
- I would use their fixtures page, like I've done for Luke Simpson's Tamworth data. I've not checked them all, but the linked match reports I have include line-ups. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:27, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
85.138.8.222
85.138.8.222 (talk · contribs) is back with a similar edit to the one you reverted. I'm not sure if I should revert this edit. SLBedit (talk) 23:37, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
- I've reverted it, we only need the name of the competition at the time the club won it. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:40, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
I thought I made the lead better, what you reverted to sounds like he still manages Barnet and hasn't retired per the BBC ref down below. Govvy (talk) 11:16, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
- His position at Barnet since stepping down as manager is head of football. I think the lead should reflect that, and don't see there being too much confusion as to readers conflating that with the position of manager. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:43, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
Bosingwa - Reply
Even though I pinged you I come here with "additional thoughts",
problem solved I think, found reliable source with the EXACT season when new 5-match rule came into fruition (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/05/who-gets-premier-league-winners-medal), when googling found related stuff from The Sun, the Daily Mail, but I think those are deemed unreliable.
If you want to write any further, please report to the last message I have left the IP address. Glad to be of service, attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 09:44, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
- No additional comments? --Quite A Character (talk) 20:01, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
- No, the issue looks to have been settled. Thanks for your intervention. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:26, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
One situation solved, another arises: if you play in previous cup rounds in England/Britain you don't get a medal, only those who take part (even if only on bench) in the final? In Portugal you do.
Obviously I'm going to have to trust you on this one. Nice reversion then, sorry for the inconvenience --Quite A Character (talk) 12:47, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
- It depends on the competition. The regulations for the 2017/18 FA Cup state that "The Association shall present 40 medals to playing staff and officials of both Clubs in the Final". The regulations for the 2018/19 EFL Cup state that "the Management Committee shall present twenty-three souvenirs to the winning Club in the Final Tie; and twenty-three souvenirs to the losing Club in the Final Tie; comprising eighteen for the players". In reality, it's difficult to ascertain all the individuals who actually received a medal, as the clubs hands them out as they see fit without any public confirmation. My approach is to include the honours if the players were involved in the matchday squad for the final, or if there is a reliable source that states that they otherwise received a medal (see Alexander Hleb's 2010/11 League Cup medal, for example). Mattythewhite (talk) 16:56, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing that content and for letting me know what the issue was there. Obviously shows you how little I know about the actual subject; I'm more of an NFL fan myself ;-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 14:24, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
- Seattle Seahawks are the best!~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 14:26, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
- Go Seahawks! (Am I doing it right?) Mattythewhite (talk) 16:55, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
Higuain
Need new protection on Higuain amid Chelsea speculation. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 17:01, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
- Semi-protected for one week. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:18, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
Sorry
Hey just want to say sorry for ruining Kieran Dowell's page, i had my sandbox page and the real page mixed up :s I'll take more care next time. Lucasnake (talk) 17:56, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
Untitled
@Mattythewhite stop changing Wikipedia articles that it took hours to make. Theweirdoman764 (talk) 12:11, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
RE: Ben Godfrey
The reason I removed North Yorkshire is because, to me at least, it is considered repetitive. It is pretty obvious that York is in Yorkshire and I personally don't think it needs to be stated. Samuel J Walker (talk) 21:28, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
- It won't be obvious to many readers. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:47, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
- Really? I'd have thought if anyone wanted to know that desperately they'd look on the location's page. Samuel J Walker (talk) 21:52, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
I see your currently active, could you check and see if you could semi this page, or block the IP. As my edit summary states, the information the IP is adding has been added many times and removed, so a discussion is needed (I'll start a thread), but we need something (protection) to encourage the to come to the talk. Thank you, - FlightTime (open channel) 17:58, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
- Discussion started. Also, just in case you're busy, I posted this to RFPP - FlightTime (open channel) 18:04, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
- I don't think I have the necessary grasp of the issues raised, so I'll sit this one out. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:19, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
- No problem, thanx anyway. Cheers, - FlightTime (open channel) 21:57, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
- I don't think I have the necessary grasp of the issues raised, so I'll sit this one out. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:19, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
Grammatical assistance needed, I wager,
in this chap's latest achievement with Wolverhampton, I tried to clean up the best I could (this IP engages in needlessly - in my view, could be wrong - repeated wording (not to mention overlinking). Question: did my new version resulted in a not-so-clear reading? I don't think so, but you'll be the judge.
Attentively, thanks in advance --Quite A Character (talk) 09:20, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
- Looks fine, although I'm not sure about the use of "exploit". Mattythewhite (talk) 15:57, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
Suggestions? I can accommodate (i was trying not to repeat "feat"/"achieve the feat"), of course (additional question: if i remove "exploit" altogether and do not replace it with anything, will sentence make sense? --Quite A Character (talk) 16:51, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
- I think that would work. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:21, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
Consider it done! --Quite A Character (talk) 19:17, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
Not playing in the final does not mean that a player hasn't won a trophy. Why, when so many footballer's 'Honours' sections have unreferenced trophy wins, are you repealing clearly correct edits? If you continue to do act in this way, you may face a permanent ban from editing. You have been warned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MillsyOnWiki (talk • contribs) 22:14, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
- What authority do you have to threaten me in this way? Mattythewhite (talk) 22:19, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
I saw you changed the colours on the France nav box, I was wondering what's the border colour on the France nav box? Govvy (talk) 00:50, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
- Red, to match the colour used on the France squad templates. Mattythewhite (talk) 00:53, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
M. City - Bits and pieces
1 - Danilo (footballer, born July 1991): the Portuguese wiseass to the rescue once again (but in this case my knowledge of the language came in a bit handy), citation tags addressed and removed (don't mention it) :) Even if they now pose as inline refs, I would still keep BDFUTBOL and NFT as links for easy consultation (there's not a specific rule on repeating links, is there?), but of course I'm not going to revert anything in that aspect;
- MOS:LAYOUTEL recommends that "hyperlinks should not appear in the article's body text, nor should links used as references normally be duplicated in this [external links] section" (my bold). Mattythewhite (talk) 16:09, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
2 - Nicolás Otamendi (last addition): seriously, is that an honour (again, please note I did not remove anything)?
- I don't think it is, but when I removed it from another article recently I got a slap on the wrist. Maybe you will have better luck? Mattythewhite (talk) 16:09, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
Attentively, continue the good work --Quite A Character (talk) 11:43, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
Will WP:FOOTY item #2, let's see what inputs "emerge". --Quite A Character (talk) 19:46, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
Otamendi/edit war
So why am I the one who is tagged with an edit war and no one else? So counterproductive and just extreme tactics used by a bully. Anyway, I have since put a note on Otamendi's talk page and have reverted the honour until the discussion is resolved.Rupert1904 (talk) 22:43, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
- @Rupert1904: You're well on your way to get a block now and way past disruptive, Matty I should point out that PeeJay2K3 pretty much broke the 3RR rule also. Govvy (talk) 22:47, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
- @Govvy: I'm the disruptive one? That is rich. You are all bullying up on me rather than having a grown up discussion. Please discuss on Otamendi's talk page where I laid out the discussion rather than revert my edits. Thanks. Rupert1904 (talk) 22:50, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
- When I noticed what was going on PeeJay was still on three reverts, hence why I didn't send him the same notice. Mattythewhite (talk) 22:53, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
- @Rupert1904: Bullying? About four different people disagree with your assessment of what an honour is and Matty is an admin, I am only going to report to him what I see of the issue. I have nothing else to say thank you. Govvy (talk) 22:59, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
- @Govvy: If you have nothing to say then why enter the discussion at all? In disagreements, many people often "disagree". Just because more people have one opinion does not mean they are always correct. That's why I created a talk page as Mattythewhite suggested so that there could be a civilized discussion rather than people ganging up on me. Rupert1904 (talk) 23:04, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
- @Rupert1904: If a group of people disagree with you, perhaps instead of accusing them of bullying and ganging up on you, you should consider that you might be on the wrong side of this argument. – PeeJay 11:56, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
- @Govvy: If you have nothing to say then why enter the discussion at all? In disagreements, many people often "disagree". Just because more people have one opinion does not mean they are always correct. That's why I created a talk page as Mattythewhite suggested so that there could be a civilized discussion rather than people ganging up on me. Rupert1904 (talk) 23:04, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
- @Rupert1904: Bullying? About four different people disagree with your assessment of what an honour is and Matty is an admin, I am only going to report to him what I see of the issue. I have nothing else to say thank you. Govvy (talk) 22:59, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
reverted date edits
Hi Mattythewhite, I reverted your edits here[3][4] and on Commons [5][6][7]. These players are today over 45 years old and don’t play football anymore. If you take a look at the pictures, you’ll also see these players are not 45 years old. I have checked which year the national dress comes from to get the year. Have a great day, greets -–CennoxX (talk @ dewiki) 10:13, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
![[5]](https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:KL_2018_(2).jpg&oldid=prev&diff=336145904){kind=link}
![[6]](https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:KL-2018_(11).jpg&oldid=prev&diff=336145890){kind=link}
![[7]](https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:KL_2018_(12).jpg&oldid=prev&diff=336145681){kind=link}
- This is clearly nonsense. User:CennoxX is claiming that photos taken at the same event last year were actually taken in 2001 or 2007. The photos of Frederic Dehu and Eric Carriere show them wearing Nike-made France shirts, but France's kits were made by Adidas in 2001! CennoxX says he has checked what year the kits come from, but clearly he didn't do a very good job at checking. – PeeJay 12:03, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
- Indeed, why they made half-baked assumptions based on kits and how old players look instead of doing a quick bit of fact checking I don't know! Mattythewhite (talk) 17:22, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
Serious, serious...
Júlio César (footballer, born November 1978): for the second time, ref removal galore (I count more than TEN), honours display utterly destroyed (and LOL, removal of his most important accolade, the CL with R. Madrid) and all this done in very poor language.
To top it, User:Andraa.elenaa says they are acting on behalf of the subject himself (see their summary from 22 January, at 11:55)! Suggestions? --Quite A Character (talk) 13:52, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
- They've already been given an explanation about conflicts of interest, so hopefully they'll take note and be more careful in future editing. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:25, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
Sorry for the late reply (and thanks for the input), been out of town. Not feeling that much confident that they will, sure hope to be wrong! --Quite A Character (talk) 21:19, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
193.117.153.126 comments on my talkpage.
I am not sure the IP understands the seriousness of WP:OWN per comments made to my talkpage. I noticed you left a message on the guys talk page. Maybe you can have another word. Cheers. Govvy (talk) 14:47, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
Berbatov
Hi User:Mattythewhite. I wont inform you, that after you have reverted my edit on the article about Berbatov, there is a version, that he is "retired". I am not sure whether this is true, i.e. he is already retired. I have changed earlier this version (that he is retired). It was done by another User: Aikclaes. I have changed "retired" with former, because it sounds better to me, but I am not a native-speaker of English. By the way, Berbatov himself gave an interview in April 2018. He has claimed that if he couldn't find a new team to play there in 2018, that would be the end of his sports career. "If I do not find a team to play there this summer, my career will be over, but no player is ready for that, and when you're done with football, a small part of you is dying," said Berbatov. Check here, please. Jingiby (talk) 15:26, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
- Replied on your talk page. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:11, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
Adam Reed
Hi User:Mattythewhite. I would like to say that Adam Reed's contract has expired on January 2019. Hope you could update that — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcolacson (talk • contribs) 02:37, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
- I'm happy to update the article if you can supply a reliable source to support this. Mattythewhite (talk) 03:44, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
Looks like a vandalism only IP. Can you help? — AnakimiHoller 19:32, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
- Blocked for 31 hours. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:40, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
I am sorry, when I read "arrive" (arrives) in the news article, I thought otherwise :( --Quite A Character (talk) 13:11, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Fiona Onasanya
Hi. Why did you make the following revert under the edit summary of "Unsourced"? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fiona_Onasanya&diff=881018256&oldid=881009682 If you look at the link in the ref immediately following the words "and subsequently voiced support for a second vote on Brexit, either by means of a second referendum or a general election" it states "MP for Peterborough Fiona Onasanya has signalled her support for a second vote on Brexit, either through another referendum or through a general election. Greenshed (talk) 18:28, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
- Fair do's. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:40, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
109.154.129.183
Hi User vandal. See: Oscar and Hernanes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/109.154.129.183 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fcbjuvenil (talk • contribs) 18:24, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
Your intake, please:
the way the seasonal wikilinks are presented now (the early ones in his Portuguese career, that is) along with the storyline (date of arrival, date of leaving, etc), do they constitute WP:EASTEREGG in your opinion? I've had this situation with this user at Unai Emery, then ceased to edited Mr. Emery's article as you may have or not noticed. Not prepared to do the same in Mr. Jardim's piece, i'll tell you (but please to tell me the bits that need working on in this current version, if at all)!
Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 10:24, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
- I've added the season to one instance where it wasn't obvious. I think the sentence starting "He led the Minho club..." could do with a reword to incorporate the season. Unrelated, but I've noticed "summer" is used a couple of times. We are encouraged to avoid this, per MOS:SEASON. I would replace them with the months, if they are known. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:25, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
Okeydokey, will see to it! --Quite A Character (talk) 19:13, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
Done! A big LOL (and excuse from me to everybody concerned - i wrote 99,9999999 of the storyline, or near that), turns out neither situation (of the two you brought forth to me) was summer yet! Regarding Mr. Jardim's appointment at Beira-Mar, ref does not seem to open, but if you google title you will see it with date and all. Best (better said, ONLY) i could find, apologies. --Quite A Character (talk) 20:04, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
- Could you please have a word with the user in question at Mr. Jardim? I feel (and most likely you agree, otherwise you would have cleaned wording/display of links better in your revision) that if a season/campaign is established at first (i.e. 2009-10) then it's not WP:EASTEREGG to say "the following campaign/season", it's OBVIOUS it's 2010-11! I stupidly rolledback, but then reverted myself 99,99999999999999999999% (everything the other user corrected in wording I reinstated, safe for the said display of seasonal links).
More doubts: 1 - said user seems to have a problem with the verb "appoint" (for when a coach arrives/signs at a club), but it's a perfectly correct approach is it not? 2 - this subject is quite deserving of having his assistant spells in the infobox (said user removed them), no? They illustrate a career dedicated to managing since a very young age.
Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 10:41, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
- No reply whatsoever, even though i asked politely what was your intake on: 1 - assistant managerial spells; 2 - wording ("appoint" being correct or not); 3 - EASTER EGG? Regarding the latter, sometimes i feel we are (not saying intentionally, of course) treating our readers as morons. Come on, if a sentence reads "In 2009-10 they were champions, but were relegated the following season", isn't it OBVIOUS that the following season is 2010-11? To write as is being put forth now in Mr. Jardim's article makes for very poor reading, my two cents.
Oh, and now said user is reverting my every addition/composition at Rúben Semedo. As is Emery and Jardim, not a problem with my presentation of storyline/links for years, but suddenly there is now.
Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 16:24, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
- I hadn't seen your message, and to be fair I haven't always the time or indeed the inclination to intervene in such disputes. Have you even tried discussing your grievances with the other editor? Mattythewhite (talk) 17:30, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
Thanks (reply now as I did not log in yesterday)! Of course I have, back in the day of the "editorial run-in" at Mr. Emery. To no avail (please read here, also more in article talk https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hippo43&diff=827726979&oldid=827673477), hence my coming to you for mediation; but of course, I understand you wanting to have no part in this dispute.
Sorry for my hastiness (again), have a pleasant week --Quite A Character (talk) 09:28, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
- A polite and technical discussion has ensued, all good. Sorry for making you an unwilling participant in this (needless) dispute. --Quite A Character (talk) 16:01, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
Accents
Hi, why are you erasing the accents of these french footballers? --Zigurat (talk) 12:30, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- I agree with the Hernandez brothers, but not with Éric Abidal or with Claude Makélélé. --Zigurat (talk) 12:33, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- The evidence I've seen suggests that their names are spelt without the diacritics. The L'Équipe website refers to both without diacritics on their profiles (Abidal and Makelele), and in the majority of articles referring to the these individuals (searched using "site:lequipe.fr "Eric Abidal"" and "site:lequipe.fr "Claude Makelele"" on my browser). Bearing in mind that this publication does include diacritics where they do apply, see this and this for example. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:06, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Ok, let's see how they name themselves: Claude and Eric. 50% --Zigurat (talk) 17:31, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- That's worth factoring in. I'd bear in mind that, while the accounts are official, they may have been created and be maintained by entourage who haven't necessarily been directed as to the correct spelling. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:45, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Ok, let's see how they name themselves: Claude and Eric. 50% --Zigurat (talk) 17:31, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- The evidence I've seen suggests that their names are spelt without the diacritics. The L'Équipe website refers to both without diacritics on their profiles (Abidal and Makelele), and in the majority of articles referring to the these individuals (searched using "site:lequipe.fr "Eric Abidal"" and "site:lequipe.fr "Claude Makelele"" on my browser). Bearing in mind that this publication does include diacritics where they do apply, see this and this for example. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:06, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Really? Does the Equipe review have more weight than the primary source, your official account? Please anwer on my page, as usual. --Zigurat (talk) 18:06, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Yes. Per WP:PSTS, "Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources and, to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources and primary sources". I like to keep threads in one place so I would prefer to reply here. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:16, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Makélélé is not a french voice (Équipe), is a lingála one, like this --Zigurat (talk) 18:29, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- You could always request a move if you're unhappy with the current title. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:45, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Makélélé is not a french voice (Équipe), is a lingála one, like this --Zigurat (talk) 18:29, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Yes. Per WP:PSTS, "Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources and, to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources and primary sources". I like to keep threads in one place so I would prefer to reply here. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:16, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
(TPS)Indeed a bit surprised that it is so, but you seem to be 100% correct at least in Mr. Abidal. This Google search in French (please see here https://www.google.com/search?q=d%C3%A9fenseur+%C3%A9ric+abidal&rls=com.microsoft:pt-PT:IE-Address&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&gws_rd=ssl) seems to attest to that. --Quite A Character (talk) 13:04, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
Chelsea vs York City
Hi Matty. I was just studying the Chelsea F.C. league record by opponent article and noticed that the only team Chelsea has played in league competition and not defeated is York City (played 2, drawn 2). I was wondering if you thought this was good enough for a DYK? and if so, would you be able to do it as I'm not that good at it. If not then, not a problem it's just an interesting fact. --6ii9 (talk) 16:32, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
- IMO it is interesting enough, although I am slightly biased :-) Unfortunately, though, the article doesn't meet the DYK rules. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:47, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Move request
Could you please move template "Académico de Viseu squad" to "Académico de Viseu F.C. squad" (which is redirecting to template "Académico de Viseu Futebol Clube squad")? SLBedit (talk) 19:52, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
- Done. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:58, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
Soccerway
Thanks for feedback about ref, Matty. So it's better to put citeweb in references and template in external links? Regards, SimplyFreddie (talk) 17:41, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
- Generally, yes. There are some templates that work for both, though, such as Template:Hugman. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:45, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
EngvarB
Hi Matty, not sure if you're aware, but at the top of the {{EngvarB}} template, there is a bolded line that reads "Please note that {{EngvarB}} is now independent of any British English templating. It has its own categorisation, also independent of British (or indeed any other) English variant categorisation. An article tagged with one of the specific language templates must never be changed to {{EngvarB}}
. My understanding is that this should be added in addition to {{Use British English}} (or equivalent). Cheers, Nzd (talk) 21:22, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks. The "An article tagged with one of the specific language templates must never be changed to {{EngvarB}}" bit was only added after I installed the script and hadn't noticed it. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:29, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
Bits and pieces (final ones)
Retiring after this message (don't know why on earth I keep pushing my editorial luck, when it's clear as can be I am worn out, totally worn out. For years! Not having fun anymore), if you read my last interaction other than this one (duh!) it will become more or less evident.
However, cannot do so without this last technical question: when one wants to refer to a team/club that plays in the same tier as another one, to say "fellow league club/side/team" is "utter nonsense" as I have recently read? I can concur with it not being perfectly academic English, but nonsense (this a propos Google search seems to state otherwise https://www.google.com/search?q=fellow+league+club&rls=com.microsoft:pt-PT:IE-Address&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&gws_rd=ssl)? If it is, my apologies to the encyclopedia for adding it to several articles over the years.
Continue the good and hard work, all the best --Quite A Character (talk) 11:51, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- It might not be my place but I would recommend you to reconsider leaving. Maybe log out for a few days or however long to recharge your batteries and think about things?
- I often write that using the name of the league, such as "fellow Premier League club", but I don't think I've ever used "fellow league club". Can you give an example of where it's been used? Mattythewhite (talk) 18:13, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
Lots of them, and if we establish in a given paragraph a club is from, let's say, Segunda División, is writing "fellow league club" in the next lines not akin to saying the latter also plays in SD? I do acknowledge your (and several other users') choice of wording is 100% clear for the readers, i just don't like repeating non-English words (which SD clearly is, as La Liga, Primeira Liga, etc) in storyline.
About your offer, thanks but no thanks. I'll be gone for a very long long time now, if not forever. Breaking point has been reached, unfortunately. --Quite A Character (talk) 20:21, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
Yarmolenko
Hey, can you explain to me why is this a bad edit? I saw on other footballers' articles that if there are too many goals then the table is collapsed like in Alessandro Del Piero page. I basically don't even know how to put it because different people put it in different ways. Regards, SimplyFreddie (talk) 21:55, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
- Looking at MOS:COLLAPSE, it seems that making tables collapsible is usually not recommended. Mattythewhite (talk) 22:16, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
Hello, Matty, I wanted to thank you the other day for reviewing my changes to the Bury page but I was still on probation and couldn't get by your page protection. I've been trying to improve the page though I haven't yet added much. If you can give me any suggestions, perhaps based on what similar pages have, that would be a great help. Thanks again and all the best. No Great Shaker (talk) 17:26, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
- No problem and welcome to Wikipedia, you seem to have taken to editing like a duck to water! I'd recommend taking a look at the club articles listed at the showcase of featured content at WP:FOOTBALL. This should give you an indication as to the sort of content that is needed to achieve good or featured article status. Thanks, Mattythewhite (talk) 18:43, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks, Matty. I'll certainly study those pages. I've done some guest editing in the past but that was only minor additions and corrections really. It seems to be a case of just having a go and getting into it, though I was surprised when a message came up saying I'd done a hundred edits already! Fortunately, I know XML so the markup is no problem and, if you have articles you're interested in, I suppose you get swept along. Anyway, I'll see how it goes. All the best. No Great Shaker (talk) 22:32, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
Koulibaly
Just letting you know "Italian club" is the proper formatting as proposed by football taskforce. We do not mention the league in the intro believe it or not.Danieletorino2 (talk) 23:34, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- A taskforce shouldn't be making a unilateral decision on something like that, it should be discussed at WP:WPF. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:37, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
Liverpool FC
Sadio Mané plays as a winger so I put him MF in Liverpool squad.
- The reference lists him as a forward. That's all there is to it. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:32, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Precious anniversary
 | |
| Two years! |
|---|
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:24, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
FIFA World Cup
Hey Matty, I'm asking because both of us are into football/soccer. I think I'm having a little difficulty. I will have this content in bold and I hope you agree with me that it's not needed when it comes to specific countries at the FIFA World Cup.
The FIFA World Cup, sometimes called the Football World Cup or the Soccer World Cup, but usually referred to simply as the World Cup, is an international association football competition contested by the men's national teams of the members of Fédération Internationale de Football Association (FIFA), the sport's global governing body. The championship has been awarded every four years since the first tournament in 1930, except in 1942 and 1946, due to World War II.
The tournament consists of two parts, the qualification phase and the final phase (officially called the World Cup Finals). The qualification phase, which currently take place over the three years preceding the Finals, is used to determine which teams qualify for the Finals. The current format of the Finals involves 32 teams competing for the title, at venues within the host nation (or nations) over a period of about a month. The World Cup Finals is the most widely viewed sporting event in the world, with an estimated 715.1 million people watching the 2006 tournament final.
For a specific country (e.g. Germany) this content is unnecessary. There are many countries like Spain that do not have this content. So I feel like I have been treated poorly. This even led to me losing rollback rights after I reverted someone's reversion of my edits. I think it is unfair because they are incorrectly reverting my edits if countries like Spain don't have the bolded text. I wonder when I can get the rollback rights back. It even led me to a useless 31-hour block just for removing unnecessary content.
Any comments?
Thanks, Dolfinz1972 (talk) 02:36, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Same old, same old...
As it's glaringly obvious I won't stop editing unless I die or contract a nasty disease (believe me I want to leave the project due to weariness, but cannot, two different concepts there), I better embrace the benefits of the account. During this timeframe I have still edited with my IP, albeit much less, and it has given me time to: 1 - practice/work on my edit summaries, from now on they'll be what they need to be, nothing more nothing less ("reverted vandalism", "updated infobox", etc, etc); 2 - realise my database is way too big, I need to focus on much less articles, that'll reduce the workload - thus, the wikistress - for sure.
Again, sorry for the prima-donna approach (WP is much bigger than you or me, undoubtedly). Don't hesitate to contact me if I can be of any assistance. --Quite A Character (talk) 09:58, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
- Glad to see you back, I hope you're feeling a bit better. I think making some changes to your editing is a good idea and will help alleviate some of the stress. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:38, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Oops, spoke too soon. Read this if you want (see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Hippo43), 12 years and nothing, and now suddenly i'm one of the worst editors out there (wording, presentation of links)? I told this fellow user and i repeat it to you here, this is making me feel VERY uncomfortable! --Quite A Character (talk) 20:43, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
ANI
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. GiantSnowman 11:07, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Non-existent categories
Before adding a category to an article, as you did to Category:Pinxton F.C. players, please make sure that the category page actually exists. In some cases, it may be appropriate to create a new category in accordance with Wikipedia's categorization guidelines, but it is usually better to use the most specific available existing category. It is never appropriate to leave a page categorised in a non-existent category, i.e. one whose link displays in red. You may find it helpful to use the gadget HotCat, which tests whether a category exists before saving a change. Thank you. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:54, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
OK, which refs? The ones relating to that era, in particular the biography, state the same as the article: he signed a schoolboy contract on 16th birthday, played for under-18s "and made a big impression on the academy coaches" before getting his first pro contract a year later. So I infer from that that he was only a youth player until summer 2010. I'm not saying there aren't any refs to say he was with the first team but couldn't find them? And since we are only using league stats in the infobox, those two bench appearances were in the cups so shouldn't really come into consideration, particularly since we know the subs in those cup matches are often random teenagers who may or may not go on to be the next generation of stars but are nowhere near the first team at that point. Just some points to consider, thanks. Crowsus (talk) 23:05, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
- While it may have only been as an unused substitute in a cup competition, Kane's first-team career started in 2009. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:48, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
Neil Warnock
Do you want to see if it's ok now? Cited the two league tables. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Free agent2226 (talk • contribs) 17:52, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
- Looks good to me. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:03, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Editorial doubts
Let's go bit by bit, please:
1 - in Álvaro Morata's intro, to say "represent the nation" is correct, right? A quick Google search says it is (please see here https://www.google.com/search?q=represent+the+nation+football&oq=represent+the+nation+football&aqs=chrome..69i57.3700j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8); 2 - to say a player "scored his team's goal" instead of repeating the team/club's name until the cows come home (especially when the sub-headline clearly states what team/club a player is representing at a given time) is also correct, no (again, a search attests to this https://www.google.com/search?ei=Uep_XISHHZyBjLsPobS88AQ&q=shearer+scored+his+team%27s+goal&oq=shearer+scored+his+team%27s+goal&gs_l=psy-ab.3...21327.23729..23980...3.0..0.118.1037.7j4......0....1..gws-wiz.......35i304i39.Wm80ETPt6sA)? 3 - Leonardo Jardim, if (in this case) a club is displayed as Sporting CP in the box and intro, surely the same must happen in storyline no (at least the first time club is mentioned, dozens of clubs around the world with the "Sporting" denomination, then it's OK to write just "Sporting")? Sick and tired of being corrected there; 4 - if i heard it correctly in the past, we prefer "matches" over "games" right (with this, not saying "games" is not correct no sir)? 5 - do you, as both an editor and an admin (don't know which trumps which in this case), have a problem with this version of Jaume Doménech (see here https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jaume_Dom%C3%A9nech&diff=886124318&oldid=886123937)?
6 - last one, i know that season is the preferred term, but to say "campaign" (i.e. "2017/18 campaign", "runner-up campaign in the UEFA Cup") is also grammatically good, am i correct? Attentively, thanks in advance and please reply ASAP --Quite A Character (talk) 15:46, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
I have the feeling you know what/whom this is about, hence don't want to intervene. Matty, I am not asking to mediate or leave messages to the other party(es), I am asking for "enlightment" on these six topics, then i'll take it elsewhere and leave you alone. --Quite A Character (talk) 10:27, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
- I hadn't any idea who or what this involved, I hadn't followed up on it because I've been pretty busy recently.
- 1. It's not a phrase I would use, I do think "represented Spain" reads better.
- 2. That sounds fine.
- 3. I agree that CP should be included on the first instance.
- 4. Matches is preferred in British English, but game is fine too.
- 5. Could you be more specific?
- 6. It's grammatically correct but I would stick with season. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:41, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, times six :) Regarding #5, I mean the very last paragraph, I do not understand why "the following edition of the tournament" after establishing earlier the competition was the Copa del Rey is unclear/WP:EASTERGG, thus needing to be rephrased/re-displayed and resulting in poorer language (in my opinion of course, maybe you are of another mind); regarding #2, of course it reads MUCH better, I was just thinking of other options to avoid writing "Spain" twice in such a short space.
Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 09:31, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
- I don't think there's much difference either way. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:39, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Segunda Liga categories / various
What to do with Category:Segunda Liga and Category:Segunda Liga seasons after "Segunda Liga" was renamed LigaPro? SLBedit (talk) 17:51, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
- They can probably be deleted. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:55, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
{{Primeira Liga teamlist}} is a duplicate of (the much older) {{Portuguese Liga teamlist}}. What to do? Redirect the old template to the new one? SLBedit (talk) 02:10, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
- That's what I'd do. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:57, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
Hello. What is the place to report a user that never talks back? SLBedit (talk) 21:35, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
- There isn't, really. You could try starting a thread at WT:FOOTY in the hope that other editors might be able to bring them out of their shell? Mattythewhite (talk) 23:14, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
A few ppl have requested it to be protected, might help to actually protect the article instead of playing with the puppet. Govvy (talk) 19:10, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
- I agree, but I shouldn't be the one to apply protection as I have been involved in the dispute, per WP:INVOLVED. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:14, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
Reverted Edits
Surely everyone that's got an OBE should have the sir salutation. If that's the case then why don't you remove Andy Murray's Salutation. Mizo0ooo0o (talk) 23:20, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
- That's not how it works. Andy Murray is a Sir because he was appointed a Knight Bachelor. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:25, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
Level of English
Matty, a quick question if you can (answer) please,
as OBVIOUSLY you are not going to rummage through my every edit/text, here's this example, the last one (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:82.132.221.211)? Do you see any glaring mistakes regarding the use of English language in these sentences? The other party is making me doubt of my skills with each passing day, I tell ya...
The "best known for IP" (report on them also shown in this message to you) continues to taunt me ceaselessly, and I fall for it like a noob and keep replying, and the last one was heated. Not anymore, I have already notified the person of that!
I repeat to you what I've just said to :@Favonian: (another admin involved in this situation): if you want to block/warn me for my message to the IP, don't hesitate to do so. --Quite A Character (talk) 10:30, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
- Just ignore them. By responding you're giving them exactly what they want. Mattythewhite (talk) 11:40, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, will do so as promised! But what I really/mainly was asking was if my level of English is so poor I should not edit here but in the Portuguese WP. I've acknowledged long ago it's not that of a native person, but it's more than "readable" I'd say with no false modesty (but i'll gladly accommodate if most users feel otherwise). --Quite A Character (talk) 12:22, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
- I agree that your editing is suitable enough for English WP, I wouldn't let that individual get in your head. Mattythewhite (talk) 13:25, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Intros
Another wiki-doubt: is it wrong to say "...is a former/retired (example) English footballer who played as a (example) forward, and is the manager of (example) English club..." in the introduction to articles of former footballers that are now managers? I fail to see where, but i could be wrong; I also acknowledge another approaches may be better/preferred, but not the point here.
Thanks in advance --Quite A Character (talk) 17:58, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
- Any part in particular? Mattythewhite (talk) 18:05, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
The whole sentence. Lately, i've been reverted from that to "...is a football manager and a former footballer who played as a (example) defender. He is the manager of...". See Paulo Sousa for example. --Quite A Character (talk) 18:27, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
- I'd prefer that wording, as it prioritises the subject's current occupation. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:29, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
I could say the same for you. All you do is revert my edits and reference a point that doesn't even support your argument but in fact supports my edits. Please contribute rather than be confrontational and start edit wars.Rupert1904 (talk) 20:20, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
- If your edits were of a better quality I wouldn't need to revert them. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:22, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Barnes-Homer
Hey there, I'm not fussed but why are you so against Barnes-Homer being called a journeyman? Cls14 (talk) 10:56, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
- It doesn't seem an appropriate term to use in the opening sentence of the lead. I think something like Richard Pacquette would be more appropriate. Mattythewhite (talk) 10:59, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
Doubts
Matty, the following regarding the introduction at Adrien Silva,
after this WP:FOOTY thread (please see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football#Intros), four or five users said that writing the current number of international caps is excessive, only one seemed to agree with the person that originally inserted the content.
Given that, i removed that bit in intro and notified the "original inserter" of my actions (here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Hippo43). Would you say i followed the proceedings there (if i did not in Mr. Silva's article, please revert me)? Sometimes i feel i'm walking on very thin ice with some fellow users, nothing i ever say or do seems to be right (hence, come to you to see if my approach was wiki-correct) :(
Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 18:04, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
- You've followed what seems to be a growing consensus, although I'm not quite sure why youth caps are included when senior caps aren't... Mattythewhite (talk) 20:34, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
My two cents would be that his youth career (at nearly 30) is 100% over, the senior one not so much (also, mentioning his youth totals in the intro is better in my view than writing more lines than a youth career merits, especially when it is detailed in the storyline proper, at least in Mr. Silva's article). That being said, would you like me to remove the youth mention? I'll gladly oblige. --Quite A Character (talk) 21:03, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks!
I guess I didn't notice the extra vandalism on the page... Thanks for spotting it and reverting it!andritolion (talk) 19:53, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
- No problem. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:54, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
Thiago Silva
Please read MOS:AMP before you do this[8] again. Shellwood (talk) 09:22, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
- My intention was to remove "French", which should have been quite clear given my subsequent edit a minute later. Mattythewhite (talk) 14:16, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
Declan Rice, curious revert
Hi matty. I'm just curious about this revert and your subsequent warning of the IP. Is there some background I'm missing here? Thanks. Someguy1221 (talk) 19:21, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
- Some of the content was unsourced, some of it was cited by sources of questionable reliability (punditarena.com and irishmirror.ie), the content puts undue emphasis on encyclopedic gossip about Rice's international allegiance, and the editor has a history of dubious edits to football-related articles (e.g. this). Mattythewhite (talk) 19:31, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
email/password=
hey, would you be able to help me sort out my account? I seem to have forgot my password... but there's no email set to my account which is annoying. if you can set me an email, it would be - I dnt wanna lose access to a 12 year old accountMuur (talk) 15:23, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
- I'm afraid I don't how to go about that, or if it's even possible. I would recommend that you raise this at WP:VPT. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:26, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
1988-89 Arsenal
Hi Mattythewhite, hope you’re well. Is there any chance you could comment/vote on this: Wikipedia:Featured topic candidates/1988–89 Arsenal F.C. season/archive2. I've reopened this after it went stale a while back. Lemonade51 (talk) 15:27, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
- Done :-) Mattythewhite (talk) 16:39, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Kevin Ball
Hello MattyTheWhite. Thanks for your (kind) note. Let me look into the KB ref & get back. All the best, franburke2 Franburke2 (talk) 04:50, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Nico Yennaris
I'm getting so tired of this incessant Nico Yennaris is "Chinese" and "the first naturalised Chinese player to player in China" stuff that I'm thinking of abandoning my interest in the article. Is there any way of semi-protecting the page? I don't know what the wiki rules are for naturalised players, maybe these editors have a point, as Nationality law of the People's Republic of China#Naturalization says "Chinese law does not recognize multiple citizenship status", which'd make him "English-born Chinese". There aren't any sources for Yennaris' citizenship status either and most of the sports websites speculate on who the first naturalised player to player in China is. Beatpoet (talk) 18:20, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
- I don't think there's been enough activity to just semi-protection, yet at least. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:34, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Wording
Taking Ivo Gonçalves as an example, i was only trying to vary in writing, hence wrote "spells" and then "stints" when creating this player's storyline, i was thinking that his goal as a goalkeeper needed sourcing then wrote some more. Of course, the "grammatical stalking" continues and i was immediately composed (with "spells" being wrote twice because "stints" is wrong in the other user's view), i would totally understand if my English was crappy and/or several users were correcting me, but that's not the case of course.
Why on earth did i have to go and belie myself and start writing storylines again when i knew this would not stop? Back to updating infoboxes and adding honours, i guess!
Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 19:34, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
- FWIW I use spell rather than stint. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:32, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
I get you, but "stint" is also 100% correct is it not (FWIW as well, I have reinstated the second usage of "spell")? --Quite A Character (talk) 08:01, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
Fourth placed at 2018 World Cup
Hi, appreciate your observation that finishing fourth at a World Cup isn't a notable honour to add to individual pages but note that it's inconsistent across the profiles of the 23-man England squad as well as the manager. Thought I'd flag Andycwalker (talk) 21:28, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
User:Bianteco being a sock of User:Biantez
Hi Matty.
Can you take a look at this case please? Biantez is already blocked indef because of his lack of communication, and now there's this User (Bianteco) doing the very same edits as Biantez (basically creating pages with poor English overall and disrupting other ones).
Thanks, MYS77 ✉ 03:34, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
- Here is his ANI and the reasons for his blocking... He still fails to communicate, as I see, and is evading block. Cheerio, MYS77 ✉ 03:36, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
Yes, it is
re [9], I randomly chose football players and checked their articles. Wayne_Rooney#International_career, John_Obi_Mikel#International_career, clicking through first five articles at Category:2018 FIFA World Cup players all have the same format. Dat GuyTalkContribs 11:03, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
- So because most (if that's even the case, given your tiny sample size) articles use a certain format, that makes it *right*? Are you aware that tables are supposed to contain captions, per WP:HEADERS? Mattythewhite (talk) 22:38, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
2010 FA Trophy Final
No matter how many times you revert it back, the sentence "Stevenage substitute Charlie Griffin had a huge amount of blood from his face, there was no way he could continue." is NOT a proper sentence. "Charlie Griffin had a huge amount of blood from his face" reads like it was written by someone without a firm grasp on the English language. It is incorrect. "Charlie Griffin had a huge amount of blood COMING from A WOUND ON his face" is a sentence." I have changed this badly written line so that it scans well more than once, and you keep reverting it back, saying that I need to cite a reference. What should I cite? Perhaps a dictionary? A 3rd grade English class? Jesus wept. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicklo2k (talk • contribs) 16:37, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
timestamp
Forgetting the timestamp is just a bad habit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sjaatoul (talk • contribs) 00:56, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
- A bad habit I hope you'll do something about. Mattythewhite (talk) 22:33, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
Heads up
See this (please see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:151.224.109.238), is there a possibility of a range block on good 'ole User:Sir gidabout, assuming they have been banned or similar (lost track of the reports on the user eventually)? Not feeling very confident in that regard, they seem to have MILLIONS (!) of IPs...
Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 10:44, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
- Range blocks aren't my speciality, though I think there'd probably be too much collateral damage with this range. Mattythewhite (talk) 22:42, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
Benjamin Pavard
Hi. I would like to know what was "disruptive" about my updating on Pavard's stats. His Bundesliga appearances hadn't been updating for three matchdays and I updated that. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gummi2183 (talk • contribs) 16:37, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- I left a link to my previous message about not updating the infobox timestamps. Also, the figures you entered were incorrect; Pavard has made 79 league appearances for Stuttgart, not 72. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:43, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
IP disruption
Good morning to you,
after the block, as you can see, they have returned (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:151.224.109.238#April_2019). Left them a message thanking them for their "cooperation". Not that any block will do anything (they'll just unearth another!), but I brief you just the same.
Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 11:05, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
- About the subject, the IP 82.132.184.174 is also doing the very same disruption. @Quite A Character: another one to watch. Cheers, MYS77 ✉ 13:16, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
- +1: 82.132.187.157! That's it, I'm requesting a protection in WP:RFPP. Meanwhile, I think a long range block should actually stop this guy from vandalizing here. Cheers, MYS77 ✉ 13:22, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
Found this other one (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:82.132.187.210). --Quite A Character (talk) 08:51, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
Hi. An IP persists in vandalising this article. Can you protect it, please? Daemonickangaroo2018 (talk) 21:43, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
- The vandalism is coming from the one IP, so I'd prefer to block that IP rather than protect the article, if it comes to it. Mattythewhite (talk) 14:50, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
Timestamps
Sorry bro for not updating the timestamps. I was editing on the go so I got a tad lazy. I’m usually pretty meticulous with the time updates so it’s just a one off.
Apologies, Gus Indubitably58 (talk) 22:39, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
League Cup,
I don't get it, we have loads of footballer articles, we simple write League Cup, why are we suddenly changing it to Football League Cup? Govvy (talk) 16:59, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
- In my experience, competition names are written in full in honours sections. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:00, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
Where in the world is Hull...
How exactly would one cite that Hull is in East Yorkshire?
On the subject of Paul Kings place of birth, Humberside was still in existence on his date of birth. But has since been dissolved. Hull is now within the ceremonial county of East Yorkshire.
So really both could be correct. Hull, hell & happiness (talk) 19:53, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
- We put the region as at the time of the subject's birth, meaning Humberside is correct in this instance. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:34, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
Hi - you reverted my edit to Derek Adams with the edit comment rvv. In fact I was reverting vandalism myself. If you have a look at it now you will see the original change I reverted back in place plus some more stuff that needs to go. Best wishes, Tacyarg (talk) 08:22, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
- If you look at my edit you will see all I did was remove vandalism. I don't see what the issue is. Mattythewhite (talk) 13:45, 28 April 2019 (UTC)