Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Bands and musicians

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Bands and musicians[edit]

Feli Ferraro[edit]

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Does not meet WP:GNG, coverage is limited to passing mentions and professional profiles in non-independent sources. The listed song credits are misleading, as she is not the primary recording artist of any of them; professional songwriters do not typically receive the same level of coverage for their work, and should not be presumed notable on the basis of having collaborated on notable works in the absence of actual RS coverage about their influence on the work. Searching online did not turn up any coverage better than what is already cited. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 16:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Women. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 16:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Astronauts of Antiquity[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Fails WP:BAND. Official website no longer exists, and band seems to have been inactive since ~2017. B3251 (talk) 15:53, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Few results when looking for coverage (only a couple of interviews and what looks to be a paid piece). Clearly not notable enough to have a page. Why? I Ask (talk) 16:53, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: California, New York, and North Carolina. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:50, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Blanche Finlay[edit]

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Fails WP:NSINGER, WP:NPOL or WP:GNG. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 20:30, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Women, and Jamaica. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 21:39, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Agree with nom. Fails WP:GNG.MaskedSinger (talk) 11:39, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Richard Raymond (pianist)[edit]

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Nothing on this guy but articles about a student of his, fails WP:GNG and WP:NMUSIC. Allan Nonymous (talk) 18:24, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Jon Forshee[edit]

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Bio of a composer/academic fails GNG, NBIO, NACADEMIC, NMUSIC. The independent sources do not show WP:SIGCOV; WP:BEFORE search turns up no other reliable, independent, secondary sources with significant coverage or evidence of notability under any of the other SNG guidelines that might apply. Dclemens1971 (talk) 23:06, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Academics and educators, Bands and musicians, France, California, Colorado, Michigan, New York, and Ohio. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:22, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete -- composer/researcher doing good things to advance his career that are pretty typical for composers at this stage. Significantly TOOSOON at this point. On the non-academic side, lacking the awards or major ensembles (those not dedicated to producing student work) to pass notability; on the WP:PROF side, does not have academic appointments or the sort of extensive influence to pass there. (Some of the journals are important in the field, but book/CD reviews are not articles.) -- Michael Scott Asato Cuthbert (talk) 01:23, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ibrahim Osman Afrah[edit]

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Standard BEFORE seems to have found nothing about the guy? Definitely nothing suitable for a BLP, which their own works (as currently cited) are not. Not for the whole article anyway. Alpha3031 (t • c) 13:22, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors and Somalia. Alpha3031 (t • c) 13:22, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Poetry. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 17:57, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, unless someone finds something in Somali or with a different spelling of his name that I've missed. Fails WP:GNG and WP:CREATIVE... this looks like an autobiography to me, because there is nothing in any of the cited sources that confirms the subject's background, birth date, or height, and the photos are either taken from the subject's social media or the article creator claims them as his own work. Richard3120 (talk) 21:58, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dartmouth Dodecaphonics[edit]

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No significant coverage found. Toadspike (talk) 09:58, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Kourage Beatz[edit]

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First off, this is a hoax. It has been recreated by different accounts and most recently speedy deleted as Tochi Bright Clement by Vanderwaalforces. The sock case of this user is still ongoing here. This should be Deleted and Salt. There's no evidence of notability, the reliable sources listed never mentioned this subject except for the press release sources and user generated sources. @T.C.G. [talk] 05:17, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 May 12. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 05:46, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Nigeria. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:48, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy per nomination, there's a bit of a backlog at SPI though. db-hoax, db-banned, db-bio, take your pick. Wikishovel (talk) 06:03, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Is there a technical reason why we're discussing this, rather than simply speedying per G5 (etc.) and salting? --DoubleGrazing (talk) 06:07, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's right! @T.C.G. [talk] 09:54, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete & salt with extreme prejudice, obvs, by any means necessary speedy or otherwise. --DoubleGrazing (talk) 06:09, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy delete: There is, by all means, no reason for this to be at AfD at all, lol. It should be a speedy delete and salt. The young man isn’t ready to give up on self-promo. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 11:10, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong delete. The subject fails WP:GNG and WP:MUSICBIO. The single vendor chart (Anghami) that his songs have appeared on is considered a WP:BADCHART. The Top Naija Music Awards is not a credible award in my opinion. Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 14:28, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yet, it's all fabricated! @T.C.G. [talk] 16:29, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Delete and Salt - Note that this article is not a hoax, which would be an article about someone who doesn't exist. This musician does exist but that's all he has accomplished for our purposes. All of his media "coverage" is at self-generated platforms, social media, and gullible web services that reprint promo announcements. Someday his relentless self-promotion may kick in somewhere else, but keep us out of it. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:31, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Doomsdayer520, ambiguously, hoaxes also mean spreading false information and that's what I meant. The article contains fabricated claims made by the user like winning an award and producing some notable individuals projects. @T.C.G. [talk] 15:43, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, a good example is the Mars hoax, false information deliberately spread about something quite real. But I'm glad an AFD was created, thinking about it: if it's not speedied, we'll be able to tag future posts on Mr. Beatz-Lonky with db-multiple A7 and G4, rather than waiting for the SPI to get through the queue, or A7 with a hoax tag underneath so some admin has to go through all the references to determine that it's a load of rubbish about someone who exists and was nominated for a minor award. Wikishovel (talk) 16:07, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
'Mr. Beatz-Lonky' lol. Right on point though. @T.C.G. [talk] 16:26, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bradford Gowen[edit]

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No sources on the article, only a single promary external link Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 03:49, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Academics and educators, Bands and musicians, Maryland, New York, and Washington, D.C.. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:34, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Profile here in the NY Times [1] and mentions the award/prize won in 1978. I'd say he's notable. Oaktree b (talk) 22:44, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also appears to be featured in this book, but Gbooks blocks it due to copyright reasons in my country [2] Oaktree b (talk) 22:47, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: per Oaktree; a profile in one of the US's largest newspapers is pretty damning to me. Queen of Hearts (talk) 00:53, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. The article is in my opinion poorly written and very poorly cited. But the subject seems notable for their performance career. Needs a serious rewrite, though. Qflib (talk) 18:00, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep -- solo recital features in the NYTimes is generally enough for classical music features (it also strongly suggests that there would have been much other coverage in the late 1970s in newspapers and magazines that don't have an easily searchable digital archive). Notability at one point in life is notability over the rest of the subject's life. -- Michael Scott Asato Cuthbert (talk) 01:44, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Marko Farion[edit]

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Does not meet the threshold of WP:SINGER, WP:NMUSICOTHER, or WP:ANYBIO. Online searches, including through JSTOR and newspaper archives, turn up no WP:SIGCOV. CurryTime7-24 (talk) 23:29, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Bands and musicians, Medicine, and Ukraine. CurryTime7-24 (talk) 23:29, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Zero coverage for this fellow, even what's used now isn't really enough for notability. Oaktree b (talk) 23:46, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Reign in Slumber[edit]

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Article about a band, not properly sourced as having any strong claim to passing WP:NMUSIC. The main notability claim being attempted here is that one of its members was previously associated with a different band, which is not "inherently" notable without WP:GNG-worthy sourcing -- but seven of the 16 footnotes here (close to half) are the band's own self-published content about itself on their own website or Bandcamp, which is not notability-supporting sourcing as it isn't independent of them, and the other nine aren't coverage about this band, but either glancingly mention this band in the process of being about something else, or are completely tangential sourcing about people associated with this band doing other unrelated things that have nothing to do with this band, none of which helps to support this band's notability either.
Nothing stated here is "inherently" notable enough to exempt them from having to have much, much better sourcing than this. Bearcat (talk) 20:47, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Cambodia. Bearcat (talk) 20:47, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reign in Slumber, is truly metal music band in Cambodia. this sub genre in it's very very rare find better sourced than this to support with their action. Without fund and most people came there just looking for free music during the music in Cambodia just built-up. Ten years they're struggle to survive, without them this sub genre will disappear in Cambodia. Please consider to accept my reason. Thanks JammyKH (talk) 21:22, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If having a wikipedia article helps them survive, that's PROMO and not helping us keep the article. Oaktree b (talk) 23:59, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia does not exist as a public relations platform to help emerging bands build their careers — making it big comes first and then the Wikipedia article comes second, not vice versa. Bearcat (talk) 13:18, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just improved some info and add more better sourced. Thanks JammyKH (talk) 22:42, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Source 22 is the only one that's in what Source Tool identifies as a RS, but it's a very trivial mention. This is about the band [3], trivial coverage and I'm unsure if it's even a RS. Oaktree b (talk) 23:58, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wally Scharold[edit]

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Recently restored after a prod deletion, it fails WP:NMUSICIAN. Theroadislong (talk) 14:43, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People and Bands and musicians. Theroadislong (talk) 14:43, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete Does not appear to have serious coverage, and page plastered by "cn" comments. Although, looking at the article history, I think you mean "contested prod" rather than "restored after prod deletion". PatGallacher (talk) 18:44, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No PatGallacher ... the article was restored after being deleted [4]. Theroadislong (talk) 23:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Improvements to citations are ongoing. Please allow some additional time to provide acceptable citations. Thank you. AimlessIdler (talk) 19:16, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Over a dozen citations added. One is to a bandcamp page which is the only record found for Scharold's membership located. If in violation of bandcamp spam policy it can be removed. The "cn" comments remain, will source these ASAP. Thank you. AimlessIdler (talk) 20:59, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All "cn" comments resolved with citations. AimlessIdler (talk) 22:29, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adding 6 x YouTube videos is not helful, it is not a reliable independent source. Theroadislong (talk) 23:12, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: None of the sources are independent or discuss the subject in any capacity beyond mentioning him as a performer/arranger/composer/producer. Recon rabbit 19:56, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On what basis are you claiming none of the sources are independent? This seems to me to be an over-generalization of all the sources provided. Could you please provide evidence that supports this? Thank you. AimlessIdler (talk) 23:41, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Antti Anatomy[edit]

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No indication he's notable beyond his band. KaisaL (talk) 13:52, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Negative (Finnish band), as he has done nothing notable outside of the band. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:23, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Magdalena Hinterdobler[edit]

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This soprano has not received significant coverage in independent sources, bar this one article.

Citations 2, 3, and 7 are from institutions with which Hinterdobler has been associated. The rest provide insignificant coverage, often not more than a half-sentence.

As there is only one source which is both independent and provides significant coverage, the relevant notability criteria (WP:BASIC/WP:MUSICBIO) are not met. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:35, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Women, Music, Theatre, and Germany. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:35, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I spent about an hour trying to find WP:SIGCOV prior to this being taken to AFD. You can see my comments on the nominator's talk page as we discussed this before taking it to AFD. I looked at over two dozen critical reviews, and while there are many reviews of the operas she has been in, she is only mentioned in passing or not at all in those reviews. Likewise on reviews of her recordings. The most we get is a single sentence (two at most; and those are rare) with a general critique of her performance. For example, The Guardian review only mentions her name in the title list of leading singers but never actually talks about her contribution to the recording. This is not in-depth. The only in-depth independent source is the first source cited, Opern News magazine article. If a couple more sources of this latter kind are found that would prove WP:MUSICBIO and WP:SIGCOV are met. Please ping me if sources with in-depth independent coverage are located and I will gladly change my vote to keep.4meter4 (talk) 00:59, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:SINGER #6 "having performed two lead roles at major opera houses." -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:41, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes there is that SNG, but I honestly think that we need to deprecate that in the same way that the RFC on WP:NSPORTS deprecated many of its similar SNG language. We really shouldn't be building articles on singers that can't meet WP:SIGCOV for verifiability reasons; particularly on BLPS per Wikipedia:BLPSOURCES.4meter4 (talk) 04:31, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your opinion that that SNG should be deprecated does not mean that that SNG no longer applies. What is not verifiable about this article? BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:15, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I never said that SNGs don't apply. SNGs by their nature often contradict other policies, which is why they are often contentious at AFD. It’s perfectly fine to make a claim to notability using an SNG. It’s also equally fine to criticize the SNG for being a bad policy because it doesn’t align with other policy language elsewhere. There have been many RFCs over SNG language, and several of them have led to policy changes that have→ deprecated certain SNGs within the the last five years. I think it’s reasonable to point to those RFCs as an example of how in certain content areas we have moved towards requiring more in-depth coverage. The need to re-examine our policies only gets established if people start raising that issue in discussions at AFDs. That’s what happened in the NSPORTS case prior to the NSPORTS RFC. Best.4meter4 (talk) 20:50, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you are allowed to criticize SNGs, but your opinions of the SNGs are not valid reasons to delete an article passing it; neither is the fact that other SNGs being deprecated sufficient reason for overriding this currently standing and completely valid SNG to delete this well-done article. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:17, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

BeanieFan11 Not true. Per WP:SNG "Articles which pass an SNG or the GNG may still be deleted or merged into another article, especially if adequate sourcing or significant coverage cannot be found, or if the topic is not suitable for an encyclopedia." Those calling for deletion are making a valid argument that this particular article lacks adequate sourcing. The main issue of contention here is whether a bunch of low level not in-depth coverage constitutes "adequate sourcing". Those of us voting delete are specifically making the argument that it does not constitute adequate sourcing, which is a valid reason to override an SNG per SNG policy.4meter4 (talk) 23:41, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May be, not required to be. The guideline was never intended to get rid of well-done articles like this. In what way is Wikipedia benefited by deleting here? BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:47, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In my view, this is likely a case of WP:TOOSOON where the subject is likely to prove notability in the future, and we have simply jumped the gun and created an article before the independent sources have come into existence that contain in-depth coverage. I think it's best practice to wait to write articles on BLPs when we have a minimum of two in-depth sources for a variety of reasons; many of them articulated at WP:NOT, WP:VERIFIABILITY, WP:BLP, and WP:OR. One of the major issues in this article is that the majority of the biographical content is cited to PR materials written by talent management and PR firms for theaters, opera houses, etc. It's not best practice to build articles on BLPs from materials of this kind. We do the encyclopedia a disservice when we don't uphold quality standards that emphasize building biographical content within biography pages from independent materials. Not doing so, allows wikipedia to become a tool of promotion for talent management and PR firms, which ultimately creates a conflict of interest between wikipedia's goal of building an encyclopedia, and the potential to use wikipedia for other motives. One of our best means of quality control in terms of both verifiability and maintaining NPOV is making sure we build articles from independent sources with in-depth coverage. That's why we have WP:GNG. Best.4meter4 (talk) 00:05, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I can tell, only six of the 21 references in the article are from Hinterdobler's opera houses? What parts of the article are not verifiable or original research? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:40, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes and they also are the most used sources, which verify over half of the article including almost all of the biographical information. The other sources only verify specific roles in specific opera performances. Asserting "only six" doesn't actually look at what information and how much of that information is coming from those non-independent marketing materials. If you can't see the ethical problem here for using marketing tools to verify a BLP article I don't know what to say further. We have two very different ideas about the ethics of editing and sourcing articles on BLPs.4meter4 (talk) 15:59, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep. I noticed that one of the two cited references for her Eva in Die Meistersänger, in Online Merker, includes 3 or 4 lines on her performance, both vocally and in characterisation, calling it "ein starkes Plus" (a definite plus). A search for other reviews in the same publication yielded other critiques of a similar length:
- "debutierte als Chrysothemis glanzvoll ... Das wird eine große Rolle für sie werden!" (made a glittering debut as Chrysothemis ... This is going to be a major role for her!)—we cite this role only from the Frankfurt Opera's summary professional bio
- noting her stagecraft as Susanna in Le Nozze but "vokal wirkt sie an diesem Abend strapaziert" (vocally, this evening she gave an impression of strain)—we don't mention this role
- a review of her Dorella in Das Liebesverbot in 2013 that she may want to forget, "quält sie sich ohne zuverlässigen Stimmsitz und ohne tragende Resonanz durch Wagners Noten" (tortures herself through Wagner's notes without reliable pitch or sustained resonance)—we don't mention this role either.

There are also briefer mentions that are not mere listings of who sang which role: "eine resolute, selbstbewusste Eva" (a resolute, self-confident Eva); "auch die 'kleinen' Walküren ... Magdalena Hinterdobler, die auch die Gutrune sang, ... sangen ansprechend" (the 'lesser' valkyries too, ... Magdalena Hinterdobler, who also sang Gutrune, ... were equal to their roles)—this compressed Ring is also not in the article. I suspect there are similar short reviews of her performances in other magazines and newspapers, and the article isn't reflecting that coverage because of a desire to focus on her leading roles, use English-language sources where possible, and / or avoid negative coverage. From the point of view of notability, however, I believe that mass of small stuff about her, together with at least one extended biographical article (I don't see the Frankfurter Allgemeine cited anywhere; has anyone searched there for coverage of her joining the company?), puts her over the top. Yngvadottir (talk) 02:55, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep we have enough for WP:BASIC. Artists are known for their work and this soprano also meets WP:SINGER. Lightburst (talk) 14:13, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Lightburst can you please identify more than one source with "significant coverage" to meet WP:BASIC. The whole point of the nominator is that there is only one (not multiple sources) with significant independent coverage. Both Yngvadottir and myself have confirmed this is the case which is why I voted delete. Yngvadottir was able to locate several reviews mentioning the subject in one or two sentences but specifically stated they didn't contain significant coverage. Asserting that BASIC is met is just not true with the current sources in evidence. You are the only commenter here asserting BASIC is met, and you have provided no evidence to substantiate that argument. Basic states, "People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published[4] secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other,[5] and independent of the subject.[6] Please produce a second source with significant coverage. 4meter4 (talk) 16:04, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The next section after BASIC reads People are likely to be notable if they meet any of the following standards." and A person who does not meet these additional criteria may still be notable under Wikipedia:Notability. You do not need coverage to prove notability, you can meet a subject specific guideline instead. Dream Focus 16:17, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. You don't need to repeat yourself Dream Focus. I am aware of the SNG guideline. That still doesn't change the fact that BASIC isn't met which is why you yourself made an argument based on criteria 6 of WP:SINGER. That's fine if that is the WP:CONSENUS opinion. I personally am of the opinion that criteria 6 of SINGER is a poor predictor of notability, runs afoul of WP:BLPSOURCES policy, and is so subjective in its meaning and interpretation that it isn't a well crafted policy. After this AFD closes, regardless of the outcome, I am considering creating an RFC along the lines of Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Sports notability which deprecated similar SNG language for athletes. In my opinion BASIC should be our guide. We need at least two sources with in-depth independent coverage to build an article on any BLP in my opinion to meet the spirit of our policy guidelines at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons.4meter4 (talk) 16:31, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My rationale stands and we disagree so please observe WP:COAL and I will do the same. Lightburst (talk) 18:24, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note to closer. Please consider the evidence and strength of the arguments in your close. I strongly urge you to ignore/overrule arguments made without supporting evidence.4meter4 (talk) 16:13, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The subject specific guidelines exist for a reason. Someone can be notable for their accomplishments, not just for media coverage of them. WP:SINGER #6 Is an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03s64z1 distinguished Austrian pianist Rudolf Buchbinder, in London for a rare appearance at the Royal Festival Hall, and the rising star conductor Lionel Bringuier. Pianist Mark Swartzentruber will perform live on the show, ahead of his concert at Kings Place tomorrow. So she is in an ensemble that contains a distinguished pianists, a conductor called a "rising star" in an opera review, and a guy with his own concerts and notable accomplishments. http://markswartzentruber.com/biography/ She was on an album that got a long review. https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/feb/14/bruch-die-loreley-review-andrew-clements She is a member of the Frankfurt ensemble, a notable ensemble which she has performed at major opera houses with. https://oper-frankfurt.de/en/ensemble/ensemble/?detail=1256 So a singer can be notable for having performed two lead roles at major opera houses. She performed as Elisabetta in Verdi's Don Carlos Dream Focus 16:14, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Just added another RS and performance. Gamaliel (talk) 19:03, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Although there is some LOW-level coverage, there is not enough SIGCOV. Performing with a notable ensemble doesn’t automatically provide notability in its own right to an individual. - SchroCat (talk) 22:04, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Oper Frankfurt: Coverage seems to be too trivial to have an article about the individual, but they do seem notable in context of the opera company. Oaktree b (talk) 00:41, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Oaktree b I would disagree with that assessment. There are hundreds (perhaps thousands) of more significant singers with biographical entries in music encyclopedias that have been resident performers at Oper Frankfurt during its nearly 250 year long history. If we were to look through the Großes Sängerlexikon for example or The Grove Book of Opera Singers I would imagine we could compile a list of more than a thousand singers who were at one time or another employed by Oper Frankfurt as a resident artist; and all of those would be encyclopedic by virtue of being in an encyclopedia. If we are going to start covering indiviudal singers in an opera company article it should be the most prominent ones. Hinterdobler is a rather minor figure from an institutional point of view, and currently the article doesn't talk about any of its artists from a historical framework. It would be WP:UNDUEWEIGHT. A company like Oper Frankfurt at any given time employs close to a hundred leading singers in a season (Currently there are over 90 leading performers with the company between resident and guest artists) They have over 20 operas in their repertory for the 2024-2025 season between revivals of older production and their plans of more than a dozen new productions. Focusing on a single leading artist, particularly one with little coverage, seems inappropriate; particularly when many of their other artists would be high profile artists with lots of WP:SIGCOV. I note that many of the singers currently employed by them have articles, as well as lots of past performers. 4meter4 (talk) 01:52, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. She has received positive critical comment in at least two recognized sources. Further searching in the German press would no doubt reveal more.--Ipigott (talk) 12:36, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Lean Keep (not familiar with opera, hence not a "solid" keep). Appears to meet the music SNG (which itself should be sufficient, otherwise such criteria are useless) and the nom admits there is already significant coverage. Not to mention the article looks pretty decent – and NBASIC also states that If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:22, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep I added a magazine review to the article. I think we have enough to show that the person is notable and I agree with BeanieFan11 regarding NBASIC. I came here from following the article at DYK. I was the editor who promoted the nomination DYK Bruxton (talk) 20:00, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I am the first author, and I don't care if this article is deleted or not.
- I was pleasantly busy over the weekend, - sorry for being late to this, and thank you all who added to the article!! (That sort of collaboration is Wikipedia as I like it.)
- My first indicator of whether a singer is notable often is - as you will guess - my own first-hand personal opinion, for this one as for many others. I hope that everybody who has commented will have listened to her speaking and singing, Der Traumgörge. I saw her (only) in that opera, which was sort of a premiere because the conductor says it was the first unabridged rendering of Zemlinsky's music which had been due for performance (and rehearsed) in 1907, but was not given then for anti-semitic reasons, so had a late premiere in 1980. The only other of "my" singer articles suggested to be deleted was Johannes Hill (so I guess my opinion was right so far).
- I didn't know WP:SINGER but thank Michael Bednarek for pointing that out. It supports my thought that our view on notability should perhaps rely more on what a person factually does (primary), than what others think about what she does (secondary). - For comparison: just imagine we'd require a contemporary review for Bach's cantatas, we'd have an article about one of the around 200 extant. They remained mostly unpublished and unnoticed for a century after he died. - What she does - two leading roles at a leading house - is objective, what others write about it is subjective, and whether we regard what they write as in-depth or not adds another layer of subjectivity.
- In this particular case, I looked if sources supported my opinion that she is notable, and found enough to nominate for DYK, and obviously enough for the reviewer and for most of the readers that day. I simply had no time to look further for more facts and other sources, sorry about that but it happens with my focus on recent death articles and Bach's cantatas that turn 300 week after week (and real life, Bach cantatas in concert and the pleasant company that comes with it), so I again thank those who did that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:34, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- ps: I went to church yesterday to one that was also up for deletion. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:37, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Responses:
  - @Yngvadottir, thank you for retrieving sources. You asked for the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung: sorry, it was hidden under FAZ (Brachmann, Jan (27 February 2024). "Ein Lichtgedicht". FAZ (in German). Retrieved 5 March 2024.) Sorry, I thought FAZ is easier than all that German, and would say BBC, not British Broadcasting Corporation. The reviewer wrote about her singing in a half-sentence at the beginning "frisch, schön und so vorbildlich textverständlich" (fresh, beautiful and with such exemplary diction). I can add that to the article. As for the Mozart reviews, I never saw them, and Mozart seems to be past for her vocal development; her voice was possibly never ideally suited for singing Mozart. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:17, 13 May 2024 (UTC) - I added that review, and also the Chrysothemis review. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:47, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - @4meter4, I added the Clements review of Die Loreley. I am not surprised that the reviewer of a first recording of an opera by a famous composer deals more with the opera than the singers. The review proves, however, that the recording was noticed internationally. - I have no idea why you'd mark what opera houses say about her - typically just a factual list of roles - as "promotional". The Chemnitz bio had a quote from a review. I added the complete review now. But why would you believe the same quote in the Chemnitz bio was promotional? Again, this review (Spinola) of a world premiere deals more with the piece than the singers. It describes her lead role at length. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:01, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Gerda Arendt I already wrote this to you in another discussion. I will copy paste it here: "All work products/publications by a performing arts organization are intended as a tool of promotion as well as a tool for information. Opera companies/theatres are businesses and they have an invested interest in promoting their company/theatre and its performers in order to sell tickets. There is a commercial aspect to the performing arts, and the materials that an opera company/theatre produces for public consumption are directly connected to its commercial interests. This is why we should avoid using sources produced by theatres/opera companies as much as possible. Artist bios are written by paid talent management and PR companies. Most professional singers have a paid agent who specializes in marketing opera singers, and those agents often write the bios hosted on theatre/opera company websites. Or the opera company/theatre itself will have an in house PR/marketing staff member responsible for writing those materials. There is therefore, a direct COI with these kinds of sources because they are written as a marketing tool for commercial gain. When possible, its best not to use PR materials of this type for ethical reasons." If an artist is notable, we shouldn't need to use these materials because the independent significant coverage should be there to source the article.4meter4 (talk) 16:09, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I already responded in that other discussion and also copy paste here: "I don't know what you normally read, but I see that Oper Frankfurt and Hessisches Staatstheater write their own bios, and their own high-class program books. - German opera houses in general are public institutions, financed mostly by tax money."
    
    Adding: what in the following Frankfurt bio is promotional and not ethical to be used?
    
    "Magdalena Hinterdobler, who sang her first Evas in a new Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg at Oper Frankfurt last winter, joined the Ensemble in the 2023/24 season, during which she sang Grete in a new production of Zemlinsky’s Der Traumgörge / George the Dreamer and Elisabeth in Don Carlo, which is followed by Chrysothemis in the first revival of last season's new Elektra. Other highlights in 2022/23 included Agathe in Der Freischütz at Theater Chemnitz and Chrysothemis (role debut) in Elektra at Tirol’s Landestheater in Innsbruck. She trained at the University for Music and Theatre in Munich and Bavaria’s August Everding Theatre Academy with Andreas Schmidt, and in Helmut Deutsch’s Lieder classes. She was a member of the Ensemble at Oper Leipzig from 2014 - 2022, where her many roles included Rusalka, Micaëla in Carmen and Marie in The Bartered Bride. Word of her interpretation of Anna in the world premiere of Gerd Kühr’s Paradiese spread far and wide. While working in Leipzig with the Gewandhaus Orchester she also sang many Mozart and Italian roles, including Liù in Puccini’s Turandot and, most recently, Mimì in La Bohème. Her concert repertoire ranges from the baroque to contemporary music. She has appeared with many well known conductors and orchestras including Stuttgart’s Bach Collegium, the Munich Radio Orchestra, the Hamburg and Bamberg symphony orchestras, Dresden Philharmonic and the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchester. She also enjoys singing Lieder with the pianist Gerold Huber. A CD of early Wagner Lieder was released by CPO in 2013, the year she appeared with the Munich Radio Orchestra for the first time as Dorella in Wagner’s Das Liebesverbot / The Ban on Love, which was followed by roles in Wagner operas in Leipzig including Ortlinde and Gutrune in the Ring des Nibelungen under GMD Ulf Schirmer. She continues her journey into young dramatic roles this season with Agathe in Weber’s Der Freischütz at Theater Chemnitz and Chrysothemis in Elektra at the Landestheater in Tirol."
    
    Not all of this is even used, because I don't like lists of famous orchestras and conductors. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:19, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Gerda I'm not going to get in a back and forth. Wikipedia's policies on COI, non-independent sources are well articulated on multiple policy pages. WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT behaviour isn't helpful.4meter4 (talk) 16:23, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am just trying to understand. Simple question: that Ring in Leipzig - the review says she sang "a minor valkyrie" and "Gutrune". The Leipzig Opera has the full list of the cast, and is - to my knowledge - the only source for the fact that she was "Ortlinde". The source is used only for that detail but you tagged it as promotional. Should we therefore omit that detail, loosing precision? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:46, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Michael Bednarek, thank you for the reference for year and place of birth, dated 2008. I used it for more detail but it was marked promotional. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:34, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - 4meter4's objections, in this case, to material in a program booklet by a public broadcaster are in contradiction to WP:RS. If reliable sources collate an artist's performance data, Wikipedia editors are free, and indeed encouraged, to use that secondary source. That's a widely followed and uncontroversial principle. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 00:37, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Information published by one's employer (the theatres at which she has performed) is most certainly not independent coverage. The theatre's website or publicatons can be cited to show that she actually performed a role there, but they should not be cited for the theatre's opinion of her performance, as they have a conflict of interest in that they want to promote themselves by promoting their performers. -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:40, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Correct, but no opinion or assessment was cited from those sites in this case. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:39, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I'm persuaded by the additional sources Yngvadottir located and analyzed as well as by the WP:NBASIC guidance that BeanieFan11 pointed out: multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability. While there is the caveat that this coverage should not be trivial, I don't think it is in this case, based on the measure of trivial coverage provided in the notability guideline (the bare mention of Three Blind Mice), as the coverage identified through this review process examines and weighs the tropic's performance quality. Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 22:31, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Komail Anam[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

I don't see her meeting WP:SINGER or WP:ACTOR criteria, as I am unable to verify major roles in TV shows which require as required per WP:ACTOR. @MPGuy2824: redirected it, but it was restored by a SPA. I tried evaluating it based on WP:GNG, but there's not enough coverage to pass that either. —Saqib (talk I contribs) 11:58, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. —Saqib (talk I contribs) 11:58, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there,

Thanks for reaching out about the article for Komail Anam. I understand your concerns about meeting the notability criteria for singers and actors (WP:SINGER & WP:ACTOR).

I've included sources in the article that demonstrate Komail Anams's involvement in major and side roles for notable TV shows.

Here are some suggestions:

- Consider the relevancy and credibility of the sources I've provided.

- You can also check the Wikipedia pages of the specific TV shows mentioned in the credits to verify their notability.

While WP:GNG might not be fully met at this point, the provided sources do establish involvement in established productions.

I do want to address the feeling of being bullied. Wikipedia relies on open discussion and collaboration, but it should always be done respectfully.

Would you be open to discussing this further and exploring ways to improve the article to meet notability criteria? We can work together to find a solution that ensures accuracy and adheres to Wikipedia's guidelines.

Thanks Thehasanansari (talk) 12:19, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers and Bands and musicians. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:39, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to his family, like before. Allan Nonymous (talk) 14:59, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Allan Nonymous, Please check BLP page history. I am fine with redirection as long the page is PROTECTED. —Saqib (talk I contribs) 15:48, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Still think a redirect is good, but salt this page for creation, given the edit warring by Thehasanansari. Allan Nonymous (talk) 15:50, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Allan Nonymous, Sure - i can withdraw this if its SALTED. —Saqib (talk I contribs) 16:04, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that notability and verifiable sources are key factors.

While the actor I'm interested in may be young and their career is still growing, they've already achieved some success:

- Participated in 6 dramas with notable roles

- Has a singing career

Their portfolio is demonstrably expanding, and they're gaining recognition.

I understand this might not meet the strictest criteria, but I'm hoping to understand if there's still a chance for a Wikipedia page in their case.

Furthermore, I'd like to clarify a point. Creating a "placeholder" page (sometimes referred to as "salting") for this actor wouldn't be helpful. They are not an unknown personality, and Wikipedia is a public platform intended to document notable individuals.

Additionally, redirecting to their father's page wouldn't be appropriate either. This actor has established their own identity and career achievements.

Thanks for your time and clarification. 2400:ADC1:42F:1400:C42C:B6:D538:5171 (talk) 19:15, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SPI filed.—Saqib (talk I contribs) 19:35, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Not enough to show that WP:NACTOR, WP:NSINGER or WP:GNG have been met. Fair amount of unsourced promotional drek before pruning, afterwards this is a basic start article. Web searches didn't show any useful sources to add that would help for notability. Ravensfire (talk) 22:00, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Would also be okay with a redirect per Allan Nonymous's suggestion, might need to consider at least some semi-protection if not more if the Nauman335 sockfarm is looking here. Ravensfire (talk) 22:01, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect as before is recommended as doesn't meet WP:NSINGER. Even as actor does not appears in any significant role.Sameeerrr (talk) 16:05, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sewerslvt[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:NMUSIC and WP:GNG, barely any reliable sources online. Sources used in the article may not be reliable, especially excessive use of Discogs. Toadette^Edit! 08:02, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Australia. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 11:19, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify: This was very recently moved from draft. Obviously this was premature. UtherSRG (talk) 13:20, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It should be moved back to draft, it definitely is lacking sources right now and is very biased Kawaiidumbassery (talk) 23:58, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The "excessive use of Discogs" is on the discography section only, alongside musicbrainz.

It does not fail WP:GNG, but may or may not require certain new sources depending on WP:NMUSIC.

Sufficient sources were provided.These include:

https://www.scaruffi.com/vol8/sewerslv.html

https://musicidb.com/artists/Sewerslvt

https://cainhillier.substack.com/p/the-last-time-i-saw-you-sewerslvt

https://gzo.medium.com/draining-love-story-review-analysis-878618e5895

https://microgenremusic.com/review/draining-love-story-by-sewerslvt-music-review/

Some content may have to be revised and/or cut for the unbiased standard. However it is clear it has sufficient, reliable sources that cover the subject on its varying sections. NikolaiVektovich (talk) 19:19, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Addressing the movement from draftspace to articlespace, as said above it is clear it has sufficient, reliable sources that cover the subject on its varying sections. Registered and Autoconfirmed users do not have to go through AfC to create an article, so it was moved. NikolaiVektovich (talk) 19:22, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

With my updates I think it meets more requirements of Wikipedia:Notability (music), they have released on two important indie labels which I have updated it to reflect. I think moving it back to draft would be the best choice, it seems to have been published prematurely. Kawaiidumbassery (talk) 00:01, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can see that the consensus so far is to move it back to the draftspace. I am still concerned, there are other articles released with less sources then provided on the article for Sewerslvt. I can also account for the problems on the article, including the reliance on much of one source. There has also been a commons deletion on a primary image used on the article. The article shouldn't be deleted, neither kept on the articlespace. I am still curious though, what defines an article as premature? NikolaiVektovich (talk) 13:42, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yuno Miles[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

as much as i love yuno, the only reliable source that talks about him is this, which makes him not notable Authenyo (talk) 00:13, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

i typed this crying knowing that big wikipedia will delete yuno miles Authenyo (talk) 00:49, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He is notable in my opinion; while I am not a fan of his music he does have almost 1 million followers on spotify and has been drawn even further into the public eye by his Drake diss. OJSimpsonLover (talk) 03:42, 10 May 2024 (UTC) User blocked for vandalism. Air on White (talk) 05:42, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: This is a RS per Project Album [5], but that's all I can find for this person. No interviews or articles about him, was hoping something would show up. A lack of sourcing means !delete. Oaktree b (talk) 04:16, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have found a few sources - maybe look a little harder 2601:449:4100:DA80:E549:EA16:3F2E:1D57 (talk) 04:28, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So... could you link them here? Tollens (talk) 05:28, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I did, they don't exist. Oaktree b (talk) 23:44, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Internet, and United States of America. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:46, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, fails notability guidelines. Plus, there’s already a draft article for him at draft:Yuno Miles. (Discuss 0nshore's contributions!!!) 00:05, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom Okmrman (talk) 04:22, 13 May 2024 (UTC) user indef-blocked for disruption on AFD —pythoncoder (talk | contribs) 02:25, 14 May 2024 (UTC)}}[reply]

Source	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Source assessment table:
https://www.sportskeeda.com/us/music/news-who-yuno-miles-fans-react-youtuber-releases-hilarious-drake-diss-response-metro-boomin-s-challenge	WP:RSP: user-generated		✘ No
https://www.rapreviews.com/2023/11/yuno-miles-yuno-i-cant-rap/			✔ Yes
https://www.sescoops.com/wwe/rapper-yuno-miles-releases-wwe-diss-track-im-beefing-with-the-wwe	Probably, website has multiple writers and this one has a degree		✔ Yes
https://pitchfork.com/features/article/the-age-of-shitpost-modernism/		One example with only one mention	✘ No
https://gizmodo.com/saga-bbl-drizzy-drake-kendrick-lamar-metro-boomin-1851470820		Only one mention as "The Meme Diss Track"; in the article's slides.	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Here's a table. I don't think two is enough, is it? Aaron Liu (talk) 11:49, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe most editors would consider two enough. Air on White (talk) 20:19, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SE Scoops is two videos and two quotes of his, with about 5 lines of text otherwise, might be a RS but that's hardly extensive coverage. Maybe 1/2 a source, being generous. I'd still like to see more than these two sources, neither of which is extensive. Oaktree b (talk) 23:44, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean? The entire article is about a diss track he released.
I do agree that two sources is a bit far from keeping, though. Aaron Liu (talk) 00:21, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep - he appears in two articles that count towards GNG, but there isn't enough notable articles at the moment for a stronger keep. Yoshiman6464 ^♫🥚 04:49, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy delete - 𝘮𝘪𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘦𝘭'𝘴 𝘥𝘦𝘢𝘳 𝘮𝘦𝘭𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘩𝘰𝘭𝘺, 07:56, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Uh, speedy per what? Aaron Liu (talk) 11:41, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AskeeaeWiki, is this even a vote? Per what? dxneo (talk) 13:51, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Seems like he passes GNG based on the sources so far. Other stuff that may or may not count, some from the draft version:
- [6] from Ones to Watch: Site with music industry backing (Live Nation Entertainment). Not sure about their editorial standards — couldn't find anything about it on RSN or RSP.
- [7] from TheNeedleDrop: may or may not count based on your reading of RSP
- [8]: got played on the nationally-televised The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon —pythoncoder (talk | contribs) 02:38, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From WP:THENEEDLEDROP:

... per Wikipedia policy regarding self-published sources, these reviews should never be used as third-party sources about living people.

Granted, what you linked isn't a review, it's an interview. But given the discussion is about what third-party sources could be used to justify keeping an article about Yuno Miles, I think this still fairly doesn't fit. It also doesn't help that Fantano isn't a journalist, let alone the fact that using YouTube links (of which this article currently uses two, both linking to Yuno Miles' own songs) is already considered generally unreliable per WP:RSPYT. Cadenrock1 (talk) 03:07, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edouard Masengo[edit]

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The article seems to have very few if any reliable sources, and Google does not show anymore. IMO fails the WP:GNG. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 19:54, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Democratic Republic of the Congo. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 20:55, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Iyeth Bustami[edit]

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Contested G5. The article was created by N. Alicia J, who is a sockpuppet of Asphonixm, a banned editor known for creating sockpuppets to gaming the system. WP:BMB specifies that bans apply to all editing, good or bad, implying that even constructive edits by banned editors are subject to be reverted. According to WP policies WP:G5 and WP:BRV, articles created by banned editors and where the banned editor is the primary contributor are eligible for speedy deletion, which can be applied to this article. Once deleted, the article may be recreated by other editor (except for sockpuppets), as there are no issues with the article content itself. Ckfasdf (talk) 14:33, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Deleting an article that could then be re-created immediately seems pointless. The individual is an elected politician and would meet notability. I don't see any reason for this to be deleted. Oaktree b (talk) 14:56, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You want to roll back edits, only to redo them... "subject to reversion" doesn't mean "shall be reverted". Oaktree b (talk) 15:49, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I mentioned, primary deletion reason is Wikipedia:Banning policy. By keeping edits and article created by banned editor, then it'll defeat the purpose of ban in the first place. A ban is not merely a request to avoid editing "unless they behave". The measure of a ban is that even if the editor were to make good or good-faith edits, permitting them to edit in those areas is perceived to pose enough risk of disruption, issues, or harm, to the page or to the project, that they may not edit at all, even if the edits seem good. And I think banning policy is also quite straightforward on this issue, as it also mentioned A number of site-banned editors have used "good editing" (such as anti-vandalism edits) tactically, to try and game the banning system, "prove" they cannot be banned, or force editors into the paradox of either allowing banned editing or removing good content. Unlike most AfD cases, this isn't about questioning the notability of an article, the real question is whether we'll enforce the banning policy? Ckfasdf (talk) 20:47, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, I care about the content of Wikipedia foremost. The politics that go behind it are secondary. Such users should be banned, absolutely. However, we do not need to revert every good addition in the pursuit of some form of justice. That seems counterintuitive to the actual purpose of the project: building an encyclopedia. Why? I Ask (talk) 22:40, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I beg to differ. Refer to Arbitration discussion a ban is a ban. It's not uncommon for people to make "good" edits to create a soapbox for disputing their ban and/or thumbing their nose at the project. Ckfasdf (talk) 03:59, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, and I am not disputing their ban. Whatever they did, they probably deserved it; not my purview. My purview is keeping Wikipedia articles up that are informational. Why? I Ask (talk) 04:06, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fully aware that you are not disputing the ban, but I think you still missed the point of ban itself, banning policy explicitly states The measure of a ban is that even if the editor were to make good or good-faith edits, permitting them to edit in those areas is perceived to pose enough risk of disruption, issues, or harm, to the page or to the project, that they may not edit at all, even if the edits seem good. WP:BANREVERT also states Pages created by banned or blocked users in violation of their ban or block, and which have no substantial edits by others, are eligible for speedy deletion under the G5 criterion. Ckfasdf (talk) 14:07, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In short, I am advocating to follow the policy, while you're suggesting to ignore policy and the your reason is to keeping Wikipedia articles up that are informational. However, if we delete and recreate the article, there'll be no changes on Wikipedia as that article would still be informational, and we are also take away the reward for sockpuppet for violating policy, which is aligned with WP:SOCKSTRIKE. Ckfasdf (talk) 14:27, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So, delete it, let me copy the exact same article with the exact same citations and re-upload it. What does this accomplish? Oaktree b (talk) 03:23, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is not the first instance. The sockpuppet has created multiple articles, and all articles created after he was blocked were deleted under G5. And few "good" articles were re-created by other editor. Ckfasdf (talk) 03:59, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:SOCKSTRIKE, the goal for deleting article created by sock isn't to punish the sockpuppet, but to take away the reward for violating policy. Ckfasdf (talk) 14:07, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Who are we really punishing, though? The sockpuppets or the readers of the article. Why? I Ask (talk) 14:19, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We are not punishing anyone, we are preventing banned editor to try and game the banning system, "prove" they cannot be banned, or force editors into the paradox of either allowing banned editing or removing good content (WP:BMB). Ckfasdf (talk) 04:01, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, recreating the article as it is without crediting the original, banned user breaks copyright. This means that whatever is written on the new version has to be something new. That's a larger hurdle to overcome than simply recreating it exactly under a different account. Why? I Ask (talk) 12:05, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's actually that's to remove any connection to banned editor. Afterall banned editor is not allowed to make any edit in the first place. Please see Wikipedia:Banning policy. Ckfasdf (talk) 11:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment To properly contest deletion under G5, supporters must either present evidence of why it doesn't meet G5 criteria or offer compelling reasons to ignore the ban policy. Ckfasdf (talk) 23:02, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, actually, they don't: If an editor other than the creator removes a speedy deletion tag in good faith, it should be taken as a sign that the deletion is controversial and another deletion process should be used. Why? I Ask (talk) 02:44, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's why now we have this AfD. And those who support (or vote for "keep") should either present evidence of why it doesn't meet G5 criteria or offer compelling reasons to ignore the ban policy. Ckfasdf (talk) 03:40, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Per my arguments above. Why? I Ask (talk) 12:02, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From our discussion above, it seems you're not disputing the G5 criteria, so you understand that the article was made while the editor was banned, breaking the banning policy. But you're still suggesting to keep the article because it is "informatiional", and we should keeping Wikipedia articles up that are informational. You also mentioned that The politics that go behind it are secondary, which indicate suggestion to ignore Wikipedia:Banning policy. Ckfasdf (talk) 11:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:BATHWATER. The subject clearly passes WP:GNG. Wikipedia isn't a bureaucracy. -- Mike 🗩 13:02, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This AfD is not questioning about WP:GNG, but it's about enforcement of Wikipedia:Banning policy. Furthermore WP:RUSH also states if this page was created with a clear disregard for some of Wikipedia's guidelines, it must be deleted in a hurry, which it is since it's qualify for G5. Ckfasdf (talk) 13:27, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You forgot the next bit which states this: This includes abusive practices like attack pages, autobiographies, spam and advertising pages, blatant copyright violations, and intentional inaccuracies. For all others, there is really no hurry to have the issues addressed.-- Mike 🗩 17:47, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am aware of the next sentence, as it mentioned example actions that disregard for some of Wikipedia's guidelines and IMO, the last sentence which starts by For all others.... refer to other deletion request for pages that is NOT created with a clear disregard for some of Wikipedia's guidelines. banning policy is quite straightforward on this case Pages created by banned or blocked users in violation of their ban or block, and which have no substantial edits by others, are eligible for speedy deletion under the G5 criterion. So, are you also suggesting to ignore WP:Banning Policy? Ckfasdf (talk) 22:30, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am suggesting that we don't hurt the encyclopedia. WP:IAR states that if a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it. -- Mike 🗩 12:16, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's true that we have WP:IAR, however please also note WP:NOTIAR suggest "Ignore all rules" does not prevent the enforcement of certain policies and "Ignore all rules" is not in itself a valid answer if someone asks you why you broke a rule. Most of the rules are derived from a lot of thoughtful experience and exist for pretty good reasons; they should therefore only be broken for good reasons. Ckfasdf (talk) 13:02, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Hillfields[edit]

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No evidence of meeting any criterion under WP:NMUSIC or of meeting GNG. Available sources are mostly self-published or trivial mentions. Dclemens1971 (talk) 02:22, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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User:139.184.129.181 placed the following text incorrectly under my nomination: "Wikipedia states however that " Failing to satisfy the notability guidelines is not a criterion for speedy deletion." From me: This is not a nomination for speedy deletion. Dclemens1971 (talk) 13:30, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - the only coverage I can find is the single paragraph live review in Drowned In Sound (referenced in the article). No RS reviews of any of their releases that I can find. Doesn't meet WP:BAND. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 18:07, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

bit of a shame you can't seem to read the Spanish articles included in the reference sections, where it states clearly the notability of the LP release in the context of the time it was released. It can't be all about charts and fame, this page is about rescuing music. If renowned DJ like Gideon Coe plays their music on BBC Radio 2 and BBC Radio 6, I'd assume it is a relevant artist.

Zerry DL[edit]

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Fails WP:NMUSICIAN, then fails WP:GNG. Article is almost entirely made from utterly unreliable blogs, some do no mention the subject at all. And being the brother of the notable Shallipopi doesn’t inherently makes him notable too. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 01:40, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Even so, TurnTable charts is no longer regarded as a reliable chart. @T.C.G. [talk] 16:23, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Who told you TurnTable charts is no longer reliable. I think you are voting based on hate. Pls reconsider it. Thank You 2RDD (talk) 17:23, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Lol, to be clear, there's nothing to hate. I've created quite a bunch of music related articles and I have also cited Turntable charts on a draft which got declined, I had to add a billboard chart before it got accepted. I got feedback that TurnTable is not identified as reliable music chart here [9] which makes it unreliable till there's concensus. @T.C.G. [talk] 18:09, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay bro, that's means Zerry DL maybe deleted. Just hearing that turntable is unreliable thanks for the information. 2RDD (talk) 18:54, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have any professional relationship with the artists, record labels, distributors on which you're making edits for? The presence of personal/professional relation is a cause for conflict of interest. A talent manager making edits on a subject they represent would be considered undisclosed paid editing unless they specifically disclose the company/person who is paying the editor, and whom the edit is made on behalf of. Graywalls (talk) 22:58, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The subject fails WP:GNG and has not received significant coverage in reliable sources. Majority of the sources cited in the article are press release write-up about the subject's musical releases. It is simply WP:TOOSOON for the subject to have a stand-alone article at this time. He is still an up-and-coming artist who hasn't made a name for himself just yet, and is simply known as being the younger brother of a notable artist. @TheChineseGroundnut: Just because the article you submitted to AFC was declined doesn't mean that Turntable isn't notable. You probably didn't include reliable sources discussing the album. Simply having an album or song chart doesn't mean that it is notable. An album or song still needs to be discussed in reliable sources to justify a separate article. Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 23:10, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You didn't open the link I sent did you? Well, here it is [10]. @T.C.G. [talk] 23:38, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TheChineseGroundnut Just to be clear, TurnTable Charts is reliable and notable, I take them for that, and mostly review articles based on that. The AfC reviewer isn’t aware and only made assumptions that it isn’t regarded as a reliable chart. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:16, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Noted. Not everyone thinks the same tho. Some drafts could still get declined If it's cited with only turntable as chart, just like my previous experience. It probably still needs concensus. @T.C.G. [talk] 09:27, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reliable sources can mean more than one thing. A court record or public agency press release saying John Smith from City of Nowhere plead guilty to assault is not a reliable source for anyone named John Smith, because it doesn't properly identify which John Smith it is. A local rag sheet which cites this source and says the owner of Smith Nursery John Smith from Nowhereville pled guilty to assault is a reliable source that someone named John Smith pled guilty and that it's the owner of that nursery in that town. This is reliable source for the claim of fact, because a secondary source (the rag sheet) interpreted the primary source (court records). However, reliably fact reporting is not a reliable indication of notability for him or his business. Graywalls (talk) 23:13, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I recently added multiple sources to help verify WP:NMUSICIAN and WP:GNG. The artist already has songs chart on many country charts. Greybliss (talk) 14:53, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, the sources you added are unreliable WP:RUNOFTHEMILL sources and do not count towards GNG. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 19:14, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanh Cong Dinh[edit]

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Does not meet WP:GNG. These links are all garbage. This person is a research assistant, not the lead researcher. Jb45424 (talk) 03:00, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. What the nom said, and what I noted in the edit summaries, and then there's the human level--why would you lower yourself to this. Drmies (talk) 02:15, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Max Bartos[edit]

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Only named role is a minor part in a musical which never reached broadway due to COVID. Only SigCov is a single piece interview in local news from 2019. Article created with COI.

No hard feelings to the author who will probably read this, I think they made a good faith to write an article with COI while following Wikipedia's policy, and the quality of the prose and formatting is nice. I hope they consider contributing to other, more notable topics that they do not have a conflict of interest with. BrigadierG (talk) 20:08, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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@BrigadierG Appreciate the feedback on drafting. I have added in news sources as there is SigCov in multiple articles from NY Times, local newspaper, and national magazines. Also added context of Max as a producer and director, and more from times during COVID. His role as Darren was a principal role along with the roles of Brendan, Raphina, and Conor. Disclosed COI because it is the right thing to do, but do not believe this merits deletion since the materials are all sourced and accurately cited and quoted. Also added reference to his work with Tali Golergant as she featured on one of the songs on his album and she is now a ESC finalist. I also appreciate the suggestion to edit other articles and will definitely start to do that. I respectfully ask that the page mark for deletion be removed. Lawhawk 13 (talk) 02:35, 8 May 2024 (UTC)@Lawhawk 13[reply]

Delete. I had to reorganize this article to figure out what was going on here. This is a clear case of WP:TOOSOON. This young actor appeared in a supporting role in an off-Broadway show that was Broadway-bound but never got to Broadway because of the COVID-19 pandemic. He has not had any significant further theatrical roles. He has produced and directed a couple of amateur shows. He had previously had bit parts in several films in his teens, and a leading role in a YouTube short film, playing Young Shane Dawson, when he was 11. He has released two non-notable albums of folk music and played in bands. Does not pass NACTOR, and most of the refs in the article (certainly the ones in national press) are about the show, not the actor. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:40, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:10, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Graeme Blevins[edit]

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Fails WP:GNG. While there are a number of sources, I couldn't find anything that is both reliable and provides WP:SIGCOV. GMH Melbourne (talk) 04:31, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Thanks for flagging. Have improved the article with additional authoritative news sources. We are talking here about one of the very best saxophone players of his generation. In the Brit Awards 2024 (the leading awards in UK for music), RAYE won more awards than any other artist, so for Blevins to have a track named after him on her album is notable. He has been regularly in the bands of several household name stars and played in a Grammy award winning album. Wikiwikiwwwest (talk) 00:03, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Still try to include more sources that contribute to the WP:GNG criteria. GMH Melbourne (talk) 13:24, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per adequate refs by now JarrahTree 01:35, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which sources? I wasn't able to locate any. GMH Melbourne (talk) 04:49, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Coverage in the article is now about the Raye group, which isn't helping this person's individual notability... Listed here [11], but it's always in a long list of other people. Playing on an album with a group of others doesn't meet notability here. Oaktree b (talk) 13:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alley of the Dolls (band)[edit]

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Newly created article, PROD declined. Sourcing does not establish WP:GNG being met. WP:BEFORE brings up only a couple of brief reviews of their EP. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:08, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Happy to add additional citations to the EP as many exist MusicForeverYours (talk) 01:57, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Added citations to additional reviews, more are available but not always in English as the band has a lot of support in none English speaking countries so reviews are not in English as is requested by Wikipedia. MusicForeverYours (talk) 15:26, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Previously PROD'd so not eligible for Soft Deletion.
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Delete: Source 18 is a RS for the album review; the rest used now in the article is primary or non-RS. I can only find the Spill Magazine review, so without any other sources, the band is not at notability. Oaktree b (talk) 23:28, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aida Vee[edit]

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lack of notability. little to no 3rd party articles detailing artist Minmarion (talk) 02:50, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak Keep: Seems to have enough sources to satisfy the WP:GNG criteria. ([12][13][14]). GMH Melbourne (talk) 02:19, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Adi Oasis[edit]

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Article has been moved disruptively by the creator that has COI without improvements since last decline, so I am taking this to AfD. I cannot tell whether this passes notability, but as I can tell from the comments of the reviewers. Before search shows primarily stories on her releasing songs and albums, and sources listed are rather mostly interviews and videos. Toadette^Edit! 15:21, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Sources 2, 3 and 4 are listed as RS. Seems ok, some PROMO concerns but we can edit those out of the article. Oaktree b (talk) 18:59, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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K. K. Kabobo[edit]

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Fails WP:MUSICBIO or WP:ANYBIO. The only reason this musician got coverage from the media (both RS and non-RS) is because of his death, which falls between WP:BLP1E (recently died) or WP:BIO1E. It’s all about his death and nothing else. Nothing to establish notability on this one. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 05:51, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kindly keep this article.The reason is because this person was very notable when he was living, its unfortunate that little information has been written about him in the internet era, but he is really notable in Ghana, his death is not the reason why we have much publication about him, but rather it's his contributions he made to the Ghanaian music industry,kindly keep the article as we continue to make improvement to the article.08:10, 5 May 2024 (UTC) Jwale2 (talk) 08:10, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails WP:NMUSIC. This was another article hastily created postmortem without seeing if subject even passed notability standards. While the editor voting keep above says "as we continue to make improvements to the article", they haven't edited it since the end of March. There's still virtually no content with nothing about his career and just an unsourced list of songs. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 08:16, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lya Stern[edit]

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This article is mainly a resume. Most of the sources in the article consist of dead links from websites that are related to Lya Stern; the rest of the sources either have brief mentions of her or don't mention her at all. After doing a Google search to see if there were sources that could be added to the article, the only significant coverage I found of her was from a website that listed Wikipedia as a source. The rest of the information I found was from her YouTube channel and mentions of her from her students. As a result, she doesn't met WP:GNG or WP:NBLP. That Tired Tarantula^Burrow 20:13, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment One source via Newspapers.com goes into some depth. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 03:55, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete (Weak) - There is a big gap in WP on instrumental performers who have created the American musical/movie music scene, and in general the encyclopedia is too quick to delete (especially for women and minority performers), but here I think the AfD is correct. The Baltimore Sun article gives a bit of notability, but the other sources do not. A blurb on the back of one's teacher's independently published book is not enough. There needs to be more and I could not find anything that led to more than what a local performing teacher would have. Glad to be proven wrong. -- Michael Scott Asato Cuthbert (talk) 08:13, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as there is a staff written bio at AllMusic here and an album review here to go with the detailed Baltimore Sun article linked earlier by Hameltion. Haven't done a full search yet, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 23:31, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What does Eudice Shapiro have to do with the subject of this article? That Tired Tarantula^Burrow 23:32, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Just agreeing with That Tired Tarantula above -- @Atlantic306 you have linked to reviews for a different musician. If Lya Stern had an Allmusic staff bio, that would be relevant, but I could not find one. -- Michael Scott Asato Cuthbert (talk) 01:37, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lovari (musician)[edit]

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Doesn't seem to have any notable or significant credits. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 03:19, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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References for Lovari on Wheel Of Fortune (2023): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV8rMTIQ2C0

https://bobbymgsk.wordpress.com/2023/02/01/wheel-of-fortune-1-31-23/

References for Lovari on Judge Jerry Springer (2022):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U78Iy9fFQkc

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt25965282/releaseinfo/

https://followmy.tv/episodes/2487792/judge-jerry/3x104/103

References for Lovari on Match Game (2019):

https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/match-game-season-four-viewer-votes/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5672484/characters/nm2102281

References for Lovari in The Barn 2 (2022):

https://dailydead.com/horror-highlights-8-found-dead-the-harbinger-the-barn-part-ii/

https://hellhorror.com/movies/the-barn-part-ii-movie-7804.html

https://podcasts.apple.com/es/podcast/trhs-random-chat-with-lovari/id1539578136?i=1000641962062

https://getoutmag.com/lovari-5/ 98.109.154.93 (talk) 04:47, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Mark Hessburg[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Unreferenced article and subject does not seem notable, either for his music career or for his app designs. Can't find any significant coverage online and seems to fail WP:MUSICBIO InDimensional (talk) 20:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Conducted a BEFORE search and didn't find much we could use. Took a look at the previous AFD held in 2006, and the result was keep. All I'd say is Wikipedia was so much different back then. IMO those votes would not constitute an outright keep consensus today. X (talk) 20:14, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I'm not really a wiki editor, so please bear with me if I'm drawing the wrong conclusions here. I came across this deletion discussion by accident after I noticed that the link to Chassalla is not active in the article about the label Eisenberg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenberg_(music label) because the Chassalla article was deleted from Wikipedia. I'm from the same region as this band and I'm involved in the local gothic scene, so I know a lot about them.

First of all, you have to understand that Mark Hessburg was mainly musically active until the mid-90s and, as you quickly find out if you do a little googling, he later concentrated on film sound and game development after moving to Berlin.

There are inevitably no online articles from the period in which he was active as a musician, not even their record company SPV had an online presence at that time, as you can find out via the Internet Archive. As far as I know, there were only tours in the time before the last album. So there was no reason why there should have been any media articles about it in the 21st century.

As has already been mentioned here, Wikipedia was a completely different place at the time the article was posted than it is today. This also explains the lack of sources in the article.

He is also listed in the German National Library under the name Chassalla with a reference to the real name Mark Hessburg: https://d-nb.info/gnd/134828038

So I would suggest that the article on Mark Hessburg should be merged with the content of the deleted article on Chassalla. According to the guideline “Members of notable bands are redirected to the band's article, not given individual articles, unless they have demonstrated individual notability.” - In this case, perhaps only the other way around, as Mark Hessburg's creative field of activity obviously extends far beyond just music. However, musical creation alone is sufficient according to several points mentioned in the notability criteria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(music)#Criteria_for_musicians_and_ensembles

I cannot judge this for his other fields of activity, but there is also a lot to be found online.

But now to sources regarding notability:

Point 1 definitely applies:

Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself

HNA - Hessisch Niedersächsische Allgemeine 29. October 1996 Page 10 – Review of the Album "Phoenix out of the ashes" https://www.meinehna.de/abo/content/archiv (paid)

Online you can also find this review as PDF, from the magazine EB/METRONOM No. 42 - March/April 1993 page 57: http://subkultur-ost.de/EB-Metronom%2042-93%20(Koeln)%20Fanzine%20%60931.pdf

I also remember that there were several reviews in magazines, among others in the most important medium of the scene “Zillo”, but I only have one review in the probably second most important magazine “Orkus Musik Magazin” September 1996 page 44 with the review of the album “Phoenix out of the ashes”.

Considering that the last album came out 28 years ago and the genre is a subculture that is nowhere near as popular and important today as it was in the early 1990s, I find it amazing that you can still find something internationally, even if only on some webzines or online marketplaces where the used CDs are sold, but it clearly shows that the project had definitely achieved a relevant, international level of awareness at the time. e.g. here:

https://www.darkside.ru/album/12605/

https://www.hmv.co.jp/artist_Chassalla_000000000366218/item_Phoenix-Out-Of-The-Ashes_2557117

https://www.stereoid.cz/chassalla-phoenix-out-of-the-ashes-cd/

https://winyle.com.pl/kasety/5020082-chassalla-phoenix-out-of-the-ashes.html

You also find used CDs of him worldwide on eBay.

Point 5 also seems to apply:

Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable).

The debut album is available in the German National Library. The entry shows that the CD was released on the Apollyon Rekordings label, a sub-label of Apollyon (90 records released) and was distributed via EFA Medien (A huge company with more than 10,000 records released)

From this link https://d-nb.info/353035785 and the archived Chassalla website from 1999 (under “History”) https://web.archive.org/web/19991007024618/http://www.hessburg.de/chassalla/index.html it is also clear that the project is not a band in the classic sense, but rather a solo project in which different musicians have probably worked together time and again, as on the second album.

https://www.discogs.com/de/label/43832-Apollyon-Rekordings?page=1

https://www.discogs.com/de/label/25914-Apollyon?page=1

https://www.discogs.com/de/label/2444-EFA?page=1

Mark Hessburg's second album was released by Oblivion, a sub-label (250 titles released) of SPV GmbH (one of the largest independent record labels in the world, with more than 13,000 albums released). It was released by Eisenberg / Warner-Chappell Music and produced by Eisenberg's owner Carlos Perón, a founding member of the famous band Yello. https://subculturerecords.bandcamp.com/album/phoenix-out-of-the-ashes-remastered

https://www.discogs.com/de/label/96109-SPV-GmbH?page=1

In addition, material by Mark Hessburg has been released on various compilations by well-known labels such as ZYX or the compilation label “Double Power” by Sony Music, together with world-famous artists such as Vangelis, Jean-Michel Jarre, Alan Parsons, Klaus Schulze, Ofra Haza.

https://www.discogs.com/de/artist/142930-Chassalla?superFilter=Appearances

https://www.allmusic.com/album/mystic-spirits-vol-8-mw0000550889

https://www.allmusic.com/album/best-of-beyond-the-skies-mw0000403718

Point 6 also seems to apply:

Is an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles.

He also wrote a popular track for the 1994 album Intimacy by the Canadian wave/synthy pop band Psyche and performed with them at several concerts. The band was extremely successful in the scene, especially in the late 80s and early 90s, and as Anne Clark's support band they also became a name to audiences outside the scene.

http://www.psyche-hq.de/history.html

https://www.allmusic.com/album/legacy-mw0000403961

Johannes Häusler, who was involved in the Chassalla project, was also a member of Psyche. Another musician, Christian Rossbach, was later a member of Madre del Vizio. A well-known italo gothic rock band https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madre_del_Vizio

Point 7 possibly applies:

Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Wikipedia standards, including verifiability.

In the early 90s, Chassalla was one of the few music projects from this scene in the greater Kassel area and was mentioned several times in the local media such as HNA and Infotip. Of course, this only exists on paper in old publications and not online.

As for the rest of his career:

Almost all the sound design projects listed here are well-known in Germany and from the major TV channels. https://www.crew-united.com/de/Mark-Hessburg_285998.html on IMDB you can also find international titles such as Paris Hilton's Simple Life or Om Shanti Om with Shah Rukh Khan.

So the claim to work as a sound designer is also proven.

If you make the effort, you will also find out that he ran the Green-Hill Studio in Kassel https://green-hill.de with the later producer of the famous German rapper Prinz Pi. You have to combine these three sources

https://www.hna.de/kultur/hiphop-gemacht-2962664.html

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/164059-RAS-Rhythmic-Altered-State

https://www.allmusic.com/album/rhythmic-altered-state-mw0000221647#credits

You can also find the connection to the Algerian world musician Hamid Baroudi from Dissidenten via this link. https://www.allmusic.com/artist/mark-hessburg-mn0002004719#credits

A list of references on its website also includes several successful mobile game titles, such as Atlantic Fleet and Sky Gamblers https://www.hessburg.com/references.html

Press mentions as a game developer, which you can find quite quickly

BZ (Axel Springer Verlag) https://www.bz-berlin.de/archiv-artikel/news-50

https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/2011/02/14/preview-wolves-of-the-atlantic-for-iphone-submarine-sim/

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/the-flare-path-topical-titbits#more-355119

https://deutscher-marinebund.de/service/u-995-kompass-app/

https://web.archive.org/web/20140609061555/https://www.pockettactics.com/news/ios-news/long-way-tipperary-wolves-atlantic-ambitious-u-boat-sim-youve-ever-seen/

https://www.148apps.com/news/wota-uboat-compass-wets-appetite-wota-wolves-atlantic/

https://de.paperblog.com/wota-wolves-of-the-atlantic-weltkriegs-u-boot-simulation-fur-ios-und-desktop-pc-fakten-und-features-ins-deutsche-ubersetzt-860990/

Incidentally, the rough content of the deleted Chassalla article can still be found online in a similar version, which would be a good start for expanding the article.: https://www.last.fm/music/Chassalla/+wiki 2003:C4:C70B:274E:19BA:543C:1764:8CF6 (talk) 00:59, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@2003:C4:C70B:274E:19BA:543C:1764:8CF6 Thank you for your participation in this discussion. For the record, I'll stand by my previous opinion. X (talk) 07:01, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Promo BLP. Fails GNG and NBIO. The sources in the article and above do not meet WP:SIRS, addressing the subject directly and indepth. Found promo material, interviews, listings, nothing that meets SIRS from independent non-promotional sources addressing the subject indepth. NACTOR points above boil down to ILIKEIT, not SIGCOV from independent reliable sources. BLPs require strong sourcing. // Timothy :: talk 08:32, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Anyone care to take on a rebuttal of the many points issued by the IP editor?
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Denis Blackham[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Previously survived AfD when criteria was less strict for his 'client list', however notability is not inherited and I don't see much individual notability for this mastering engineer. Additionally the article has been edited multiple times by the subject which is a conflict of interest. InDimensional (talk) 20:44, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: BLP. Fails GNG and NBIO. The sources do not meet WP:SIRS, addressing the subject directly and indepth. Found nothing that meets SIRS from independent non-promotional sources addressing the subject indepth. BLPs require strong sourcing. // Timothy :: talk 08:57, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Soft Deletion is not an option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:55, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. I am still alive and well, so why should my page be deleted. My page explains my career and life. Nothing wrong with that.

Gumbi Ortiz[edit]

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Does not meet WP:MUSICBIO. Essentially no coverage in reliable, independent sources online aside from an All About Jazz article. Meets no other notability criteria. Obviously created for undisclosed payments (see User_talk:WikiDMM). Clear friend a ^💬 21:52, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: Found this source from the TB times [15]. Also, All About Jazz profiles are typically self-published, as this one appears to be, so that doesn't count towards notability. Mach61 23:00, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per this Orlando Sentinel article. Mach61 23:06, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comments - this is truly a marginal case. There's at least some evidence of some coverage (per Mach61), but he has surprisingly few followers on social media such as Instagram. So I'm not !voting. Bearian (talk) 17:05, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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The Weekend (Canadian band)[edit]

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This article was evidently intended to be nominated by Originalcola (talk · contribs), but they accidentially nominated the talk page instead. Their original rationale follows:

Clearly lacking any significant coverage and being non-notable, failing to meet any notability criteria. No reliable sources exist and band is not mentioned except for trivial mentions.

Note that Originalcola previously attempted to PROD this with the same rationale; this was declined by an IP. Also note that this is not the much-more-well-known singer the Weeknd, who is also from Canada. The third and final note is that my involvement is entirely procedural and I offer no opinion or further comment at this time. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 22:16, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Ah oops, my mistake. Thanks for the help! Originalcola (talk) 19:36, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep – There is sufficient non-trivial coverage in multiple sources; see a sampling I added on May 1st and 2nd, articles about the band in Exclaim!, The Hamilton Spectator, the Toronto Star, the Regina Leader-Post, and the Ottawa Citizen. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 01:10, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Conrado Pesinato[edit]

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Fails WP:NMUSICIAN. Information I found in a WP:BEFORE search seems to all be mostly related to their membership of the Graham Bonnet Band. Anything else I found is still solely related to their membership of a band (see WP:BANDMEMBER). Hey man im josh (talk) 17:53, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Cambridge Chord Company[edit]

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Does not appear to pass WP:NMUSIC. Coverage is mostly centered around the British Association of Barbershop Singers. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:37, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to British Association of Barbershop Singers: per WP:ATD Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 14:12, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have no issue with that ATD. Hey man im josh (talk) 11:43, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Insufficient mainstream coverage to meet WP:GNG qualifications. CapnPhantasm (talk) 22:01, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Evgenia Sergeevna Didula[edit]

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Russian pop, ethno-pop and folk singer. The person does not meet the criteria for WP:MUSIC.--Анатолий Росдашин (talk) 03:31, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 May 2. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 03:48, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Quatuor Habanera[edit]

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I couldn't find sources to show it meets WP:GNG / WP:MUSICBIO. Boleyn (talk) 19:36, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment found this album review here. Haven't done a full search yet, Atlantic306 (talk) 21:25, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Gary L. Coleman[edit]

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NMUSICIAN. PROD was contested with sources from IMDB and of relatives being added, which do not establish notability. GMH Melbourne (talk) 00:41, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Ineligible for soft deletion.
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Dubee[edit]

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Does not meet Wikipedia:Notability (music)— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jb45424 (talk • contribs) 12:44, April 29, 2024 (UTC)

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Found this during PROD patrol, and wanted to discuss it at AFD myself. The pros here are a short Allmusic review and two sizeable writeups at Rapreviews.com. I have no prior experience with Rapreviews.com, but the site is used for more than 100 wp articles. I'm leaning keep. Geschichte (talk) 08:03, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I was able to find this article about the subject, and I would also describe myself as leaning keep. Hatman31 (talk) 17:45, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Fayse Goh[edit]

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the article appears to be very promotional. I also searched up the name, and it appears to plagarize his youtube channel's description. Gaismagorm (talk) 20:02, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Info - Note to closer for soft deletion: This nomination has had limited participation and falls within the standards set for lack of quorum. There are no previous AfD discussions, undeletions, or current redirects and no previous PRODs have been located. This nomination may be eligible for soft deletion at the end of its 7-day listing.

Logs: 2024-04 ✍️ create

--Cewbot (talk) 00:02, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: I find youtube, twitter, instagram then off into the ether... Lack of sourcing, what's given now is primary. Nothing for notability found. Oaktree b (talk) 23:20, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Daniel Rosenfeldt[edit]

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Hi; this is my first time both using Twinkle and participating in the AfD process, so try not to flame me too hard if I make a mistake here. This article has somewhat poor sourcing and I've done a check for his name to try and find anything on him but I've come up short. If anyone can find better sources for this, that would be great, but I'm unable to on my end. Neo Purgatorio (talk) 00:45, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: nothing in the article suggests notability per WP:MUSICBIO and I'm unable to find any significant coverage online. InDimensional (talk) 11:05, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep: High ranking in a major TV contest gives notability but I'd suggest that coverage in English will be hard to find Sansbarry (talk) 01:20, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak Keep - I found a couple of profile articles about him: in the Danish magazine Familie Journalen [16]; and on TV2 (Denmark) [17]. I don't think being a "semifinalist" on the TV Talent show is particularly impressive -- there are 35 semifinalists each year. But the two articles may be enough to pass WP:GNG. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 21:05, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
These seem fine; it's probably the language barrier that makes finding sources harder. If someone's willing to add them in somehow (I can't at this exact moment) then I'd probably be willing to keep the article. Neo Purgatorio (talk) 15:58, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Nothing wrong with submitting an AfD and not being 100% sure (I have withdrawn a good few after somebody came up with dece sources). jp×g 🗯️ 01:20, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Fails GNG and NBIO. Nothing found meeting WP:SIRS addressing the subject directly and indepth. Source eval:

Comments	Source
Promo interview, fails WP:IS	1. Isbrand, Johan (8 November 2019). "Daniel creates magic in the Circus Building: I have taught myself everything". Familie Journalen.
Brief, but may meet WP:SIGCOV	2. ^ Jump up to:a b c Hansen, Sebastian Myrup (31 March 2018). "Was tapped on the shoulder - two years later he had been all over Denmark". TV 2 (Denmark).
Performance annoucement, fails WP:IS	3. ^ Daniel Rosenfeldt Performing at Skanderborg Festival 2014
Performance annoucement, fails WP:IS	4. ^ "Daniel Rosenfeldt Live at Louisiana". Archived from the original on 2015-05-09. Retrieved 2015-02-24.
Show promo trailer, fails WP:IS	5. ^ Det Stribede Show Trailer
Name mention, fails WP:SIGCOV	6. ^ Hansen, Sebastian Myrup (31 March 2018). "Dansedrenge gik videre til finalen i 'Danmark har talent'". TV2.
Database listing	7. ^ Discogs profile: Daniel Rosenfeldt

Nothing found in BEFORE that meets WP:SIRS. One ref above may meet SIGCOV, but that is not enough to show notability. BLPs require strong sourcing. // Timothy :: talk 12:25, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: To remind you, sourcing level requirement for BLP is more stringent than GNG.
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Delete per Timothy's source review. Jake Wartenberg (talk) 14:53, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:56, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ebrahim Etemadi[edit]

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Ebrahim Etemadi likely doesn't meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines. Additionally, the mentioned sources might not be reliable enough. Waqar💬 19:25, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - Three of the citations presented (2 Farsi and 1 Enlglish) seem to be OK. The Persian version of this has 17 citations and I saw some Ok ones there, such as 1, 2. We can't just assume because something is in a foreign language, it is unreliable. He seems to be well known in his country.Yolandagonzales (talk) 09:09, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: BLP, fails GNG and NBIO. Sources in article do not meet WP:SIRS addressing the subject directly and indepth, BEFORE found nothing that meets WP:SIRS. BLPs require strong sourcing. // Timothy :: talk 18:52, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Schwein[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Relisting as previous nomination did not attract any comment and soft deletion was not applicable. Non-notable band that only lasted one year; no sources found in English or German. Sources in Japanese linked on the page do not show WP:SIGCOV. Broc (talk) 14:41, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I believe the article should stay up. Per v, point 6, the group consists of several independently notable musicians. Weiqwbo (talk) 14:13, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per comment above, but also if only because having this content in each of the individual artist pages would be redundant (which is probably the point of Wikipedia:Notability (music) #6) -- t_kiehne (talk) 18:14, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Question. Were they big in Japan? Bearian (talk) 20:09, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep – KMFDM's parallel project, I believe it has enough notability. Svartner (talk) 09:04, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Los Zodiac[edit]

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This was hard to assess, especially as there are varying spellings used. I couldn't find enough to show it meets WP:NBAND / WP:GNG. Survived 2005 AfD ([[18]], but standards very different then. Boleyn (talk) 10:39, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Peruvian rock:

From this it seems like there is some level of coverage in 2018's Demoler. El rock en el Perú 1965-1975 by Carlos Torres Rotondo
There may be some leads from this: "Very little has been written about the History of Rock in our environment. Only sketches (as some newspapers usually publish) and some studies such as the one done by Jose Miguel Gonzalo Garcia, entitled Development of Youth Music in Peru, give us a brief idea of this whole matter. But the closest thing to a treatise on the so-called underground current or alternative music comes from the university works of which I mention (but always from a giraffe perspective, based more on journalistic data or conversations with subways, than on personal experiences), the job that my friend Miguel Lescano did at the beginning of the 90s, or the Underground Rock -10 Years of Wild Operas by Alvaro Olano Dextre. All of them are the first formal attempts to capture a history of underground rock. Someone will try to object to me by saying, what about Pedro Cornejo's book? I'm sorry to contradict you little brother, but the Game without Borders - Approaches to Contemporary Music that Pedro published in 1994 is not considered, not even by Pedro Cornejo himself, a total work, at least it is not what many (like me) expected from Pedro Cornejo Guinassi, graduate in Philosophy, professor at La Católica, participant in the first years of underground rock, editor and collaborator of alternative publications and other publications."
es-wiki does not have an article for them, and nor are they actually covered at es:Rock_del_Perú or es:Historia_del_rock_en_el_Perú
They are not the Los Zodiacs from Getxo in Spain who had a song in a Pepsi ad (see this from El Correo)

I can't see what's in Torres, etc, but there's otherwise a dearth of reliable sourcing for the band other than being one of a number of early 60s Peruvian rock bands. Unless adequate info is discovered in Torres or other RS, redirect with retention of history and categories seems the sensible option. ^~Hydronium^~Hydroxide^~(Talk)~ 12:08, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 02:32, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist, is there more support for a Redirection?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:12, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep or redirect to Peruvian rock. There is a good case for notability made based on Ferreira, Cesar; Dargent-Chamot, Eduardo (2002). Culture and Customs of Peru. ABC-CLIO. p. 126. ISBN 9780313089473. which, while brief coverage, indicates they were a significant band in Peru during the early years of rock'n roll in that country. I would image most of the sources for this band would be offline and in foreign languages (Spanish, Quechua, etc.) given the age and the locale. I'd be fine with redirecting with no prejudice against recreation if someone is able to dig up some better sourcing with more in-depth coverage.4meter4 (talk) 22:29, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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