Talk:Mirza Fatali Akhundov

Swietochowski

Tadeusz Swietochowski does not call Akhundov an "Iranian nationalist". No personal interpretations, please, that's against the rules. Grandmaster 07:08, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Tadeusz Swietochowski says "Akhundzada was one of the forerunners of modern Iranian nationalism, and of its militant manifestations at that." AlexanderPar 08:57, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Well then, we can add that to the article. Grandmaster 10:07, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

That means he was an Iranian nationalist. LOL.Hajji Piruz 14:10, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I took out part of the quote Elsanaturk added which isnt about Akhundzade.Hajji Piruz 19:29, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

but in order to understand fully that quote from Grigor Suny, we must also mention, that Turkish nationalism, heavily influenced by thinkers who lived and were educated in the Russian Empire. That is Akhundzade lived in Russian Empire, so to delete the beginning of quote, is to distort it, many people influenced turkish nationalism, but Ronald Grigor Suny explains why he emphasizes Akhundzade and Gasprinski. I restored the full quote. I think it means differently if the quote is full. Ateshi - Baghavan 19:38, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, it also goes on to say:

"Unlike Ottomanism, Turkish nationalism provided no place for the non-Turkic natoinalities except one of subordination."

My question to you is, what does any of this have to do with Akhundzade? Suny is talking about Turkey, not even Russia! LOL Elsanaturk, be reasonable. I dont really mind except for the fact that it has nothing to do with Akhundzade, but is rather talking about nationalism in Turkey.Hajji Piruz 19:56, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Hajji Piruz, why you are so aggressive? what Suny simple says, is that Turkish nationalism was influenced by thinkers who lived in Russian empire. and then he brings Akhundazade and Gasprinski. so, what can we do if Suny didn't said that his thought in one sentence but divided it into two consequitive sentences? You are not assuming good faith. why i insertted that quote, to show that Suny's idea is that thinkers in Russian empire, also Akhundzade, influenced Turkish nationalism. so when you shorten it it becomes distorted. You are again the same User:Azerbaijani. Ateshi - Baghavan 20:09, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Unlike Ottomanism, Turkish nationalism provided no place for the non-Turkic natoinalities except one of subordination. How is this related to Akhundov? Grandmaster 04:51, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Elsanaturk insists on having it in there. Look at the above discussion. If he wants to mention Turkish nationalism, then I simply said lets quote the whole thing. Elsanaturk does make a point though, it does reflect the influence of Russian based scholars on Turkish nationalism, and the sentence you mentioned describes that nationalism. So I think its ok to keep the quote.Hajji Piruz 04:57, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

The quote should be relevant to the article. I don’t see how the part about Turkish nationalism has anything to do with Akhundov. Grandmaster 05:45, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, I, also like you, diasgreed with Elsanaturk at first, but he made a good point about its relevance to Akhundzade, it dosent really hurt the article that much, if at all, anyway.Hajji Piruz 05:48, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

wealthy family?

what i know, his father was not so wealthy, but was a merchant from Khoy, who could hardly be a middle class-man. Ateshi - Baghavan 19:42, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

May 28, 2008

I just removed a phrase saying "Armenian writers Khachatur Abovian, Gabriel Sundukyan and others played a large part in formation of Akhundov's europeanized outlook." This fact doesn't seem to be true. Akhundov's first work The Oriental Poem published in (1837) while Khachatur Abovian seems published his first work Predtropye in (1838). I think the prase, "Akhundov played role in Khachatur Abovian 's europeanized outlook", is more believable. --Gulmammad- 16:26, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

"In 1836, he began teaching Azeri Turkish at the Tiflis gimnaziya, the director of which was the Armenian writer and publicist, Khachatur Abovian. Abovian’s views on the need for a simplification of the Armenian literary language and the cultural as well as political subordination of the Caucasian peoples to Russia exercised a strong influence on Āḵūndzāda. Following Abovian’s example, he strove to create a new literary idiom in Azeri Turkish with his celebrated comedies written in the simple language of everyday speech, and like him he unreservedly espoused imitation by the subject peoples of the more vital and advanced culture of Russia. " Source:[1]-- Ευπάτωρ ^Talk!! 18:48, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Akhoundzadeh or Akhundov?

According to britannica his name is Akhoundzadeh, then move to this title?Farhikht (talk) 16:41, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 18:58, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

---

Mirza Fatali Akhundzadeh → Mirza Fatali Akhundov – per WP:COMMONNAME & WP:USEENGLISH

• "Mirza Fatali Akhundzadeh" -Llc 1, but this books was written in French language.
• "Mirza Fatali Akhundzade" -Llc 3
• "Mirza Fatali Akhundov" -Llc 89

-- Takabeg (talk) 07:29, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Google search is not a sufficient justification for the move. Atabəy (talk) 00:33, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

In the absence of any other argument, it seems fine. Is there a particular reason to keep the page where it is? -GTBacchus^(talk) 02:09, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

It's very clear that "Mirza Fatali Akhundzadeh" is not common in English. Takabeg (talk) 02:13, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

According to Books Ngram Viewer, Mirza Fatali Akhundov is overwhelming others. Takabeg (talk) 02:15, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Naming few books that contains his name as Akhundzade does not make Takabeg's claim correct. In fact books like this claims he is Akhundov not Akhundzade, http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fvqYSoRvAI4C&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=mirza+fatali+akhundov+encyclopedia&source=bl&ots=JlRWwq2I66&sig=6VYNB-Tts-Re5pJ2bDMtExdbjrA&hl=en&ei=InNrTpi2DsvC8QOxgswO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CFMQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q&f=false plus Encyclopedias also claims he is Akhundov not Akhundzade.--NovaSkola (talk) 14:26, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

File:Mirza Fatali Akhundov museum.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Vandalism?

I added reliable source but it was undo by user 188.158.94.177

Since no one cared about, I myself remove that vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shahanshah5 (talk • contribs) 07:24, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

References

Current name meets WP:COMMONNAME

"Mirza Fatali Akhundov":about 1,200 hits in GBooks[2] and sbout 123 results on GScholar.[3]

"Mirza Fatali Akhundzade" about 289results on GBooks[]https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Mirza+Fatali+Akhundzade%22&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=bks&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwipjaSJ9bXgAhXGJ1AKHVaFDxAQ_AUIFCgB&biw=1920&bih=1064 and about 31 on GScholar.[4]

The name should always match the title and that should be changed only through an official move request. Doug Weller talk 09:58, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

The argument could also be made that the majority of people which wrote with that name were related to Russia or the Soviet Union which Russified names from all different cultures. Akhundzade was an ultra-nationalist Iranian and one of the major forerunners to modern Iranian nationalism, I would assume that from this it would be preferred that his non-Russified Iranian name of "Akhundzade" be used. In this case I also assume that the name used might just be dependent on where the author or what their view is on this issue. Migboy123 (talk) 03:42, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Alphabet reform section

There is not a single citation to support anything written in that section, can someone actually provide any evidence of anything stated there? I cannot find anything on the internet which supports what's written there. If anyone else can't, I will assume it's false.Migboy123 (talk) 03:37, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Why are you deleting the fact he was Azerbaijani playwriter? This fact is given in Iranica encyclopedia. Read the article : [5]. The source also mentions him as propagator of alphabet reform.--Abutalub (talk) 12:13, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

I never deleted that he was an Azerbaijani play writer, do not make such statements. I am asking you to give me sources which prove that he did promote such alphabet reform as stated. Can you highlight the exact quote from Encyclopedia Iranica please? It only mentions him as a propogator of alphabet reform, what alphabet? It could be the Perso-Arabic script in general, you can't assume, you need a solid statement. If there isn't a solid statement which says such a thing this is fabrication, please highlight the exact quote and not just that he was a propagator of alphabet reform. The man was an Iranian ultra-nationalist, not nationalist, ultra-nationalist, and this must be made clear as it is his identity. Migboy123 (talk) 05:46, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

If you don't respond, I will assume you do not have a counter-argument and I will proceed to delete the text as it is unsourced and thus fabricated information. Migboy123 (talk) 10:04, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Iranian

I have provided my argument on Abutableb's talk page and on LouisAragon's page. Abutalab, can you actually counter my argument? It doesn't matter if a million sources back your point, I have plenty of sources which say he's Iranian and he also identified as Iranian, it was his choice and according to Wikipedia's rules you must write what he identified as. Also, there was no such thing as the "Republic of Azerbaijan" back then even though he lived in Aran, you can't say he's from there. Encyclopedia Iranica also considers Azerbaijanis as an Iranian peoples, not nationality wise only, so you shouldn't add Encyclopedia Iranica as a source. Migboy123 (talk) 02:31, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

"Akhundzade identified himself as belonging to the nation of Iran (mellat-e Irān) and to the Iranian homeland (vaṭan)" this is what he identified as and thus the introduction statement that he is "Azerbaijani" should be changed. Encyclopedia Iranica considers Azerbaijanis Iranian. It also has nothing to do with the modern day land of Aran which has adopted the name the Republic of "Azerbaijan". KhakePakeVatan (talk) 10:11, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

@KhakePakeVatan: @Abutalub: Could you two please stop abusing the article and discuss it instead? --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:22, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

HistoryofIran I do, check out his talk page and what I've written here. He doesn't want to accept the truth. KhakePakeVatan (talk) 11:28, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

HistoryofIran It's unfair to Akhundzade as he described himself as belonging to the nation of Iran and being Iranian, it's quoted in the article, so why must we dispute what he himself identified as? It doesn't seem logical. KhakePakeVatan (talk) 11:29, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

No, you're edit warring. You both are. Look at the history of the article [6]. If you think you're right then notify an admin or something. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:28, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

You can't just label him as Azerbaijani or Iranian, as he was both. Per the reliable sources:

Iranian:

• "Nineteenth century Iranian intellectuals, such as Mirza Fath Ali Akhundzadeh and Mirza Aqa Khan Kermani (...)" -- Aghaie, Kamran Scot; Marashi, Afshin (2014). Rethinking Iranian Nationalism and Modernity. University of Texas Press
• "(...) exemplifies the centrality of the ideal of improving on existing institutions for Akhundzadeh and other nineteenth-century Iranian intellectuals. (...) As a native speaker of Azeri who published both in Persian and Azeri." -- Litvak, Meir, ed. (2017) Constructing Nationalism in Iran: From the Qajars to the Islamic Republic. Routledge. p. 43
• "This was no doubt also the reason why Fath'ali Akhundzadeh (d. 1878), the Azebaijani Iranian who was a subject of the Russian Empire and lived in Georgia, launched an attack on Sa'adi in his general onslaught on Persian poetry. The was perhaps the first nationalist and modernist Iranian intellectual, and he rejected virtually the whole of of post-Islamic Iranian culture, romantically glorified the legacy of ancient Persia, and wished to turn Iran into a Western-European style country overnight. -- Katouzian, Homa (2006). Saʿdī: The Poet of Life, Love and Compassion. Oneworld Publications. p. 3
• " The intellectual forerunners of romantic nationalism included Mirzā Fatḥ-ʿAli Āḵundzāda, Jalāl-al-Din Mirzā Qājār, and Mirzā Āqā Khan Kermāni (qq.v.). They introduced the basic ideals of the autonomy, the unity, and the prosperity of the Iranian nation with patriotic devotion." -- Ashraf, Ahmad (2006). IRANIAN IDENTITY iv. 19TH-20TH CENTURIES. Vol. XIII, Fasc. 5, pp. 522-530

Azerbaijani:

• "ĀḴŪNDZĀDA (in Soviet usage, AKHUNDOV), MĪRZĀ FATḤ-ʿALĪ (1812-78), Azerbaijani playwright and propagator of alphabet reform; also, one of the earliest and most outspoken atheists to appear in the Islamic world. According to his own autobiographical account, Āḵūndzāda was born in 1812 (other documents give 1811 and 1814) in the town of Nūḵa, in the part of Azerbaijan that was annexed by Russia in 1828. His father, Mīrzā Moḥammad-Taqī, had been kadḵodā of Ḵāmena, a small town about fifty kilometers to the west of Tabrīz, but he later turned to trade and, crossing the Aras river, settled in Nūḵa, where in 1811 he took a second wife. One year later, she gave birth to Mīrzā Fatḥ-ʿAlī. Āḵūndzāda’s mother was descended from an African who had been in the service of Nāder Shah, and consciousness of this African element in his ancestry served to give Āḵūndzāda a feeling of affinity with his great Russian contemporary, Pushkin." -- Algar, Hamid (1984). ĀḴŪNDZĀDA Vol. I, Fasc. 7, pp. 735-740
• "Mirzə Fətəli Axundzadə (Russ. Akhundov) (1812–78) was a groundbreaking playwright, literary critic, journalist, language reformer, and poet from Azerbaijan. Axundzadə wrote in Azerbaijani, Persian, and Russian." -- Heß, Michael R., Axundzadə, Mirzə Fətəli, in: Encyclopaedia of Islam, THREE, Edited by: Kate Fleet, Gudrun Krämer, Denis Matringe, John Nawas, Everett Rowson

Writer of Turkish plays from Persian Azerbaijan

• "Āk̲h̲und-Zāda , mīrzā fatḥ ʿalī (1812-78) was the first writer of original plays in a Turkish idiom. The son of a trader who hailed from Persian Ād̲h̲arbayd̲j̲ān, he was born in 1811 (according to Caferoǧlu) or 1812 (according to the Soviet Encyclopaedia , 1950) in S̲h̲ēkī, the present-day Nūk̲h̲ā. -- Brands, H.W., Āk̲h̲und-Zāda, in: Encyclopaedia of Islam, Second Edition, Edited by: P. Bearman, Th. Bianquis, C.E. Bosworth, E. van Donzel, W.P. Heinrichs

- LouisAragon (talk) 18:43, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

LouisAragon, iranica article is specifically dedicated to his biography while the references call him iranian just randomly mention him. Also britannica ([7]) mentions him as Azerbaijani playwright.--Abutalub (talk) 19:09, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

• "(...) while the references call him iranian just randomly mention him"

What are you trying to say?

• "Also britannica (...)"

Britannica is non-RS.[8]

- LouisAragon (talk) 19:20, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

One reference is about Iranian identity, one is about poet Saadi, etc.--Abutalub (talk) 19:24, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

All titles I posted deal with topics (Iranian identity, 19th-21st century Iranian nationalism, poetry, etc.) that are deeply related to Akhundzadeh/Akhundov. Heck, the Iranica article about Akhundzadeh literally states that the concept of "Iranian identity" was of major importance to him:

In all his literary activity, Āḵūndzāda showed a special interest in Iran, and he corresponded with several prominent Iranians by means of whom he hoped to influence the cultural and intellectual life of the country. Indeed, despite his loyalty to Russia and the fact that he wrote all his major works first in Azeri Turkish, not in Persian, he claimed on occasion to regard himself as an Iranian, for his father’s ancestors had been Persian, not Turkish, the family’s connection with Azerbaijan beginning only with his grandfather’s migration there from Rašt. This sense of Iranian identity along with his hostility to Islam produced in him a hatred for the Arabs and a nostalgia for pre-Islamic Iran that led him to exclude Zoroastrianism from his general strictures on religion.[9]

The titles I posted above firmly pass WP:RS. Excluding them while only employing the first sentence of the Iranica article, is a violation of WP:NPOV. - LouisAragon (talk) 19:46, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Him being iranian nationalist is mentioned in the lead and also entire section is dedicated for that. So there is no violation. If you want to write him as Iranian playwright while all his plays are written in azeri this would be ambigious.--Abutalub (talk) 20:02, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

The above source provided by LouisAragon already answered to that : "despite his loyalty to Russia and the fact that he wrote all his major works first in Azeri Turkish, not in Persian, he claimed on occasion to regard himself as an Iranian,".---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 20:13, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Wikaviani, that source calls him Azerbaijani in the beginning. So?--Abutalub (talk) 20:42, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

The same source also supports what was quoted in the above, therefore, listing this man as solely "Azerbaijani" goes against WP:WEIGHT.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 20:52, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

What about Iranian nationalist and Azerbaijani author, playwright, philosopher?--Abutalub (talk) 21:01, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Would be even better to simply call him "Azerbaijani Iranian" or "Iranian ethnic Azerbaijani" IMHO.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 23:16, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Though I was initially against such inclusion, the WP:RS (even Iranica) do show that he was Iranian as well. "Azerbaijani Iranian" or "Iranian ethnic Azerbaijani" seems therefore fine to me. - LouisAragon (talk) 14:52, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:52, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Clarification in areas of the article

I recently made edits to clarify certain areas of the article. However, @CuriousGolden: has reverted my edits with the reasoning: "Changing Azeri Turkic to Azerbaijani and changing "Azerbaijan" to Republic of Azerbaijan frankly makes the sentences unnecessarily longer without providing any new information." First of all, my reason in doing this is because the word Azerbaijani, is used far more both colloquially and academically to describe the Azerbaijani language and it is of the same word count without a space as well, so it neuters GoldenCircle's argument that it makes the "sentences unnecessarily longer". Second of all, The reason why I changed "Azerbaijan" to "Republic of Azerbaijan" was because of two reasons, the first being that it might get confused with the Iranian region of Azerbaijan especially because the modern Republic of Azerbaijan only adopted the name Azerbaijan in 1918, so this can create further confusion because during that period and historically the only region that has been called Azerbaijan is present day Iranian Azerbaijan. But my main reason in making the edit was because the article explicitly states "present-day" and the article should be using present-day names. The purpose of these edits was not to provide "new information", it was to clarify and refine already existing information, which is another goal of editing articles. I also do not see how 10 or 15 extra characters really makes it figuratively "longer" or creates any disruptions, matter of fact it has more positive consequences because of the clarification it brings to the article. I would like to hear your response CuriousGolden. KhakePakeVatan (talk) 04:21, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

@KhakePakeVatan: Hello. Sure, I agree on changing Azeri Turkic to Azerbaijani. But changing "Azerbaijan" to "Republic of Azerbaijan" makes the sentence unnecessarily longer, especially when the word already redirects you to the Republic of Azerbaijan page and Azerbaijan adopting the name in 1918, does not change the fact that average person thinks of the Republic of Azerbaijan when they hear the word "Azerbaijan". — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 06:35, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

There is not even a redirect. Azerbaijan is the name of the article, therefore, on Wikipedia, this name is unambiguously referring to the Republic. Elizium23 (talk) 06:48, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

I don't believe that such a clarification is doing much damage to the article, it's two words that will make readers better understand a confusing distinction. The average person differs per country, in Iran, the name Azerbaijan is referred to the region within the nation. This is a subjective matter and for this reason it makes it more necessary to use modern political terminology. Further, like I stated, the article clearly says "modern day", and today there are two regions associated with the name "Azerbaijan", Iranian Azerbaijan and the Republic of Azerbaijan. During the period of Akhundzade, there was only one region associated with the name "Azerbaijan' and that is modern day Iranian Azerbaijan. Hence, taking into account both historic naming, the necessity for using modern naming for both political and historical distinction, this minor edit would do nothing than to bolster the coherence and clarity of the article. KhakePakeVatan (talk) 09:13, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

@KhakePakeVatan: Me and the user Elizium23 already explained to you that the name "Azerbaijan" in almost all Wikipedia articles relates to Republic of Azerbaijan unless stated otherwise. Changing it to "Republic of Azerbaijan" makes the sentence unnecessarily longer and damages the sentence structure. Only place where I see "Republic of Azerbaijan" appropriate is in articles where both Iranian Azerbaijan and the Republic of Azerbaijan are discussed simultaneously, and in this article they are not, which makes the "Republic of" part unnecessary.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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• Пантеон выдающихся азербайджанцев - Ахундов.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:59, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Proposed merge of House Museum of Mirza Fatali Akhundov (Shaki) into Mirza Fatali Akhundov

his house is not separately notable DGG ( talk ) 10:54, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Agree. It should be merged. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 15:25, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Support Make sense, agree with DGG --Abrvagl (talk) 11:06, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 02:30, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Zia-Ebrahimi or Mirza Fatali Akhundov

In the section of Iranian nationalism, there is more talks about what Zia-Ebrahimi thinks about Iranian nationalism than what Mirza Fatali Akhundov thought or what his influence was on the matter. If people don't disagree, i will remove the irrelevant content. Maybe Reza can find another place to put his opinions. 2001:DF4:3200:1500:4965:1E12:D595:AC2A (talk) 23:53, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

I just noticed that the other day. I have no idea who Reza is but I'd support removing it or at least thinning it out. Brycehughes (talk) 06:12, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

• "I have no idea who Reza is..."

Google can be quite helpful[10]

The section should be thinned out, but the source is definitely WP:RS. Relevant parts should stay. - LouisAragon (talk) 13:33, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

I should clarify: I don't care who Reza is. Brycehughes (talk) 19:06, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

If a diversity hire from a well known university writes about someone, does that justify their unproven opinion to be on the wiki article of that person? Hence i don't see why zia ebrahimi's opinion piece that no one agrees with should be listed here. 115.70.22.45 (talk) 01:39, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Please see WP:FORUM and WP:SOAPBOX. --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:59, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

How does that respond to my question. what justifies pushing the unproven opinions of an unknown author? 2406:3400:313:B310:D579:4B13:A34:7D0A (talk) 03:59, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Because what you're doing is literally WP:FORUM and WP:SOAPBOX. Do you have any compelling argument? --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:31, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

abere, shoma rashte shini?

The burden is on you to show a compelling argument that reza zia ebrahimi's opinion is relevant to this topic.

If anyone has any opinions on Akhundov, does that justify it to be published on the wiki page? 2406:3400:313:B310:493:EB03:E9DC:BE33 (talk) 06:21, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

See WP:CONSENSUS. You've already been told several times why Ebrahimi is relevant here; you yourself are yet to explain why he should be omitted, other than ranting about your personal opinion on him (i.e. WP:JDLI). Every scholarly book is essentially an "opinion", yet you strongly dislike Ebrahimi for some reason, it wouldn't happen to be because you don't like what he says?Also, do you wanna explain to everyone what you just said in that foreign language? HistoryofIran (talk) 10:03, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

What consensus are there that Ebrahimi's opinion is relevant? just you?

This is hilarious, it should be omitted because it's irrelevant, no one takes his opinions seriously and there is no proof for his hypothesis. It's literally just him, no other scholar has the same opinion.

So tell me, why should it stay? the burden of proof is on you to show that his opinion is relevant and popularly accepted.

In that foreign language? sounds like you lie on your profile too. 2406:3400:313:B310:FC6F:81C9:A9A3:9365 (talk) 00:49, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Not how it works, and you've already been given arguments, which you still haven't addressed. Read our rules. --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:00, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

okay name a few. i still see no reason why Ebrahimi is relevant. He isn't even relevant enough for scholars to address his dubious point. There was no Iranian nationalism before Kermani and Akhundov? what a pile of rubbish. So when Nizami Ganjavi writes poetry about Iran in the 12th century he actually was a time traveller from the future? 103.73.57.133 (talk) 23:15, 31 August 2023 (UTC)