User talk:Mattythewhite/Archive 38

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WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - October 2017

Delivered October 2017 by MediaWiki message delivery.
If you do not wish to receive the newsletter, please add an N to the column against your username on the Project Mainpage.

17:53, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

Danish IP

Utter idiot continues, still at Boldklubben Frem, now inserted the entire S.C. Braga squad plus some others that play for neither club! Pityful... --Quite A Character (talk) 15:26, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Given a L4 warning. Mattythewhite (talk) 15:49, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Gerard Piqué

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7baF3oTYdI https://www.facebook.com/foxsportsasia/videos/vb.69860094544/10155235847634545/?type=2&theater

He defines himself as Catalonian, not Spanish (as do I). He defines himself as Catalonian regardless of what others may think about "nationality" or "independence", (See previous vids) he clearly states his nationality as Catalonian si.

Someone edited post saying he/I/you can't be Catalonian as they don't recognise it as a state.. But the Catalonian are a Romance ethnic group formed by the people from, or with origins in, Catalonia and/or the Catalan countries, who also form a nationality in northeastern Spain.

el poble de catalunya — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.24.152.242 (talk) 20:37, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Les Mutrie

Thanks for thae hard work that you do in patrolling recent changes. I was too patrolling recent changes on living people's bio and spot the death claim edit by IP user on Les Mutrie, I found a coverage verifying the fact added by IP user here it is. It appears true to me as the person was associated with hullcitytigers and their web portal have published this. Anoptimistix (talk) 14:56, 3 October 2017 (UTC) Anoptimistix (talk) 14:56, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

"Tabloid rubbish"

And yet many similar lists compiled by tabloids are referenced on footballer's wikipedia articles (one of which the very sentence BEFORE mine in the Darko Kovačević article!). So many footballer's articles on wikipedia are underwritten and don't give a true representation of the player's ability or how they are/were viewed by fans in England or the English media. Such things are important and lists such as these are a good way of getting the reader to get a feeling of a player's legacy. Just bizarrely dismissing it as "tabloid rubbish" is lazy and in itself non-contributive. You also reverted my edit of Riviere's solitary goal "to date", a phrase which is redundant now he's left the club.

Sorry, made a bit of a mess of this chat (no idea why I posted twice!), but the point still stands. 86.0.106.175 (talk) 00:08, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Because that's what it is, tabloid rubbish. Meaning it is not of encyclopedic value. Anyway, the DM is not a reliable source; see WP:DMRFC. Mattythewhite (talk) 00:19, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

That's no more than your opinion. Why is it any different to the list of 100 bad buys on the Kovacevic article? IT is totally of encyclopaedic value, for the reasons I mentioned. 86.0.106.175 (talk) 00:44, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Reflist

I wasn't aware it was set at 10 now (it didn't used to be set at any number...) - I'll change my AWB script to stop adding. Thanks, Giant Snowman 16:48, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

George friend

Please can you adjust George Friend’s Middlesbrough league appearances to the correct amount, currently 187. Thanks

Boro3232 (talk) 06:38, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Steven Gillespie

In reply to having my change on Steven's page to say he plays for Skelmersdale United removed, the edit was to match the updating of our current squad which as the club's Media Officer, I have done to ensure our club page is accurate, as I am not a regular/clued-up Wikipedia user, the citation best to use would be this...

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/skelmersdaleunited/teams/27854/player/steven-gillespie-1816761/34243 or http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/skelmersdaleunited/news/experienced-duo-sign-united-contracts-1832356.html

StattoSi (talk) 21:32, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

my removed modifications

Excuse me, I dont know where to address this message i just would like you to see it. Please stop removing my modifications as they're are all correct. Do not threat to block me from editing, I'm a contributor not a vandal, thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Illegalment (talk • contribs) 17:46, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

You need to add sources to content you add. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:53, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Jadon Sancho

I see how you can mistake me adding 1 game/2 goals as being from the chile match but that was not intended, please read the link i provided and do some research and see if it is correct as stats from the England Under-21 wiki can not be trusted. He has 15 goals in 17 games. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Famalambreezy (talk • contribs) 16:38, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

I'm not going by the U21 page, I'm going by Sancho's profile on the FA website, which states he has 16 caps and 13 goals, up to and including the Chile match. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:44, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Another nuisance?

Account quickly removing all regional teams from players (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/ALPalacio), in Sergio Busquets they also thought it would be a good idea to "give" him 20 GOALS for Spain instead of the TWO he has...

Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 20:29, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Warned. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:32, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

They continue, reverting my 100% valid edit in Asier Illarramendi in the process! --Quite A Character (talk) 20:40, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Álvaro Morata

Was just performing some minor tidyups in this chap's article, and found out you removed he played for Atlético Madrid as a youth (don't know if originally, but at least you reverted a user that (re)added said info a couple of days ago). Out of tremendous respect for your work, i feel obligated to add some more on the subject, after all i (unbeknownst to me, only noticed it AFTER i performed my action) kind of reverted you.

Found this ref (please see here http://www.101greatgoals.com/news/transfers/chelseas-signing-alvaro-morata-secures-cash-atletico-madrid/), don't know if we can use this due to (possibly, don't know to be honest) not being reliable. If not, please brief me in and i'll dig further (certainly the Spanish web has tons of sources regarding the topic). Also, some may argue article could have been written "profitting" from false info stemming from our website, but there's no mistake in the picture, he's the kid to the right!

Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 23:56, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Much more reliable source found, added it to box. Question: do you think it is appropriate to add refs other than those that source name/height/akin to the infobox. If not, just say the word and i'll relocate it. --Quite A Character (talk) 09:41, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
- I'd say it's fine to do that, but ideally his association with Atlético should be mentioned in the prose. Mattythewhite (talk) 13:36, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Done! --Quite A Character (talk) 14:39, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

World 11 2nd/3rd teams

Hello. I wanted to ask whether the World 11 2nd/3rd/4th teams can be put into the individual honors for players. Saw them in some players' honors, so was thinking about adding them to more players. KnavishGlobe786 (talk) 13:14, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

User:LluciBOY

Matty, could you please have a word with this user (i see you already have this year, with a warning)? I don't feel very comfortable doing so after being called a vandal who abuses the Iván Balliu - now Albanian, like this user - article (their summaries read, verbatim and ALWAYS, "Correction, adding facts and don't abuse the article"), when they themselves do/did the following: 1 - wrote in box he plays as DEFENDER, we don't do that unless player plays as a left/right back AND a central defender too, when player plays as right/left back we write "full-back"; 2 - linked "Spain" in box, we don't do that to major countries; 3 - REMOVED (has stopped now it seems, but did so on several occasions!) the reference for the player's height in the box; 4 - inserts stats for ALL competitions at F.C. Arouca in the infobox, over and over again; 5 - removed the 100% valid category of "Albanian expatriate footballers", which is what Mr. Balliu is now as he plays for the Albanian NT and plies his trade in France, no?

Another account User:BrownNotorious, also told me the same in an edit summary last month, so it's pretty obvious what this implies methinks. The Luci account, on 6 October, took it upon themselves to add a protection template because article was being VANDALIZED (!) when no one did nothing of the sorts (please see here https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Iv%C3%A1n_Balliu&diff=prev&oldid=804123130); it was immediately removed by a bot.

Attentively (and please note, as i in no way want be accused of any wrongdoings and/or underhand behaviour, i have notified said user of this thread, let's see if they reply to you - i sent a message to the aforementioned second account regarding this subject, received zero feedback) --Quite A Character (talk) 20:49, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Another difference of opinion in said article, now with a decent user that engages in interaction: do we really need an early life section just to say he was born in X city of Y/Z descent, when his descent is clearly identified in the international career section (note, i have not reverted anything in that regard)? --Quite A Character (talk) 21:35, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

@Quite A Character: I thought I was doing a good job with my editing in the Wikipedia article of Iván Balliu, but since that's not the case! I'm sorry, do not disturb me. LluciBOY (talk) 06:09, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

NEVER my intention to disturb you User:LluciBOY, you were the one that said article was being vandalized when it was not, and you were the one that told me SEVERAL times to not abuse the article when i was actually cleaning it up, OK? But no problem, i will not send you any more messages and leave you in peace, if you edit Balliu's article properly there will not be any problems at all. --Quite A Character (talk) 06:29, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Your two cents please Matty, so that this user (who now asks, after all they said to me in summaries, that I cease to disturb them) does not think I am trolling or akin? Please highlight their name when replying, so that they are redirected to here and I don't have to "disturb" anymore, in their page, here or anywhere.

Thanks again --Quite A Character (talk) 09:00, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

@Quite A Character:, @LluciBOY: Are there any outstanding issues/sources of contention on the article that need to be resolved? Also, we shouldn't bandy around terms like "vandal"; I'm sure both of you are editing in good faith. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:35, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Major issues only seem to be two, as described above: 1 - the "defender" in position seems to indicate player also features as a stopper when he does not (so it's best to write "right back" as of now, position where he features exclusively for Metz now); 2 - the insertion of all competitive stats for Arouca (the other seem to be more or less understood; nope, i was wrong in item #5, see this diff where the ALBANIAN EXPATRIATE FOOTBALLERS category is again removed, and then i am told AGAIN not to abuse article https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Iv%C3%A1n_Balliu&diff=804114006&oldid=804112823). Since i don't want to be a nuisance (vandal/article hogger) to this person, i will not "disturb" them any further, i only came here seeking for your valuable mediation, not seeking any blocks or akin. --Quite A Character (talk) 18:46, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

And regarding your actions there, Matty, the following question: i have longsince understood that we are not to link countries. But we are also not to link demographics ("Albanians", "Spaniards", etc)? Maybe i'm missing something (again), but seems to destroy the purpose on having an article on it...

The position and stats seem fine to me; Right back and league statistics for Arouca in the infobox.

Per WP:OLINK, we are encouraged to usually not link to nationalities and ethnicities (among other things), "unless a term is particularly relevant to the context in the article". Mattythewhite (talk) 19:38, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Also in Balliu's piece: I added a TEAM wikilink to the introduction, it was replaced with the COUNTRY wikilink (and of course duly reverted) on the grounds which are seen in the edit summary. The former (my action) is not incorrect (and in fact, the Spain national football team is not mentioned ONCE in the article so I thought it would be an interesting addition), is it? --Quite A Character (talk) 11:55, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

I don't think it's an appropriate wikilink given the context. "Balliu represented his native Spain": it reads to me that we are referring to Spain the nation, as opposed to the senior national team. Mattythewhite (talk) 13:46, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Simone Inzaghi

Hello there,

was just cleaning up this player/manager's article, and found out there is a glitch in the display of reference #8 (now archived, the error seems to come precisely from that archiving field). Can you make anything of it?

Attentively, thanks in advance --Quite A Character (talk) 11:11, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

I think it should work now! Best, Messirulez (talk) 13:41, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes, situation solved, thanks! Erase this message if you want Matty, sorry for any inconvenience --Quite A Character (talk) 13:42, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Ferguson

No idea, at first glance, I probably made it up. I've got him playing in 2016 in the second spell, as well, which is contradicted by his article, so perhaps I imagined his name in a teamsheet in 2016... Wish I'd left those player lists as a complete record of DFC in the Football League, which is what they were, all nice and straightforward, till I got ideas above my pay grade and started trying to make them complete for nationally organised comps and it got horribly messy. I'll have a proper look by tomorrow and get back to you, but it's almost certainly me misreading something. Thanks for noticing, Struway2 (talk) 16:11, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Indeed, I can't find any sign of a cup appearance before this season. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:30, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your hard work

I have been editing here for over ten years, but for the past few have decided to no longer use my username. Whenever I look at the edit history on an article, I know that there are some editors whose edits are 100% reliable, although there are few of them. Indeed, I can only think of two - yourself, and User:Struway2. Keep up the good work. Best wishes. 122.248.112.128 (talk) 15:03, 17 October 2017 (UTC) (formerly User:Daemonic Kangaroo)

Between us, maybe... (see above). I can still think straight, albeit slowly, but there's an ever-increasing distance between what I think and what I type. Thank you for the kind words, which are appreciated. Struway2 (talk) 15:46, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, it's much appreciated, and I hope you're keeping well. Mattythewhite (talk) 15:56, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Dates of Tables

Hello

I apologize if I have missed some dates for the tables and I will try to be more careful.

Thanks for the heads up. Youngtomlin (talk) 19:47, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Slaven Bilić

I put a source next to the material in the article from the official web page of the Croatian Football Federation where you can see his national team appearances and goals. I don't see why you have a problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HipHopRijeka (talk • contribs) 16:10, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Jordan Lussey

What’s your email address so I can message you privately? Jordd94 (talk) 09:14, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Not sure why you would need to contact me privately. If you can evidence the three missing appearances, it's fine to do so on this talk page. Mattythewhite (talk) 12:38, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Pat Jennings

You clearly know little about Northern Ireland, people like Pat Jennings wouldn't use "Northern Irish" as a national identity because he is from the Irish Catholic community, changing the wording to "player from Northern Ireland" is more suitable because that is not making any assumptions on his national identity, it is obviously a waste of my time changing it though as the editors here obviously have tunnel vision on the issue, I am just glad I am not famous because you fellows won't have the chance to decide my national identity for me on a wikipedia article. Gaelicchief14 (talk) 16:55, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Re: Mauro Icardi

I think the problem was the "captain" word, he only plays as a captain in club level, not for Argentina. Matthew_hk t c 21:14, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

Jordan Lussey

Yes, I understand all games are league appearances, I played 15 times for Southport last season ( LEAGUE GAMES )

please stop editing my correct info!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jordd94 (talk • contribs) 13:22, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Both Soccerbase and Soccerway, links to which are present in the article, list 12 league appearances. If this is incorrect, could you tell me what the three missing appearances are, with citations? And I think you ought to refer to WP:COI and WP:OWN. Thanks, Mattythewhite (talk) 13:48, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Southport FC's official website has an excellent stats section, with 2016/17 appearances/scorers, split by league and cups, and 2016/17 full line-ups for all competitions. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 14:05, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Looks to me like their figures match up exactly with Soccerway and what's already on the article. Mattythewhite (talk) 14:11, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

If you check Soccerway it shows I played 12 National League and 2 FA Cup 1st round proper against Fleetwood. I’m going to change my stats for the last time. Please leave it alone!!!! Jordd94 (talk) 10:05, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)@Jordd94: Only domestic league appearances are entered in the infobox. Eagleash (talk) 11:15, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Harry Kane

Hi, i think harry kane has 1 extra appearance that has mistakenly been put on his wiki, just dont wanna change incase wrong — Preceding unsigned comment added by Famalambreezy (talk • contribs) 12:17, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

The figures look right to me. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:46, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

John Cartwright

Hello mate, I notice you just reverted a cat addition on the John Cartwright article. The last sentence of the first para in the Career section is "He played in youth internationals, against the Netherlands in the UEFA International Youth Tournament on 14 April 1957, and against Ireland in the British Youth Championships on 11 May 1957", which is sourced by 11v11 and one of the articles by Roger Hillier & Steve Marsh. Was it a mistake or am I missing something? Thanks, Nzd (talk) 21:10, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

My bad. Could it be added to the infobox too? Mattythewhite (talk) 21:16, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, good point. I'll do that now. Cheers, Nzd (talk) 21:23, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

York City wartime guests

Me again, I'm doing some work on the Benny Fenton article. He's listed as a wartime guest for York City, which I'd cited previously from a page on 11v11 which is no longer available and doesn't seem to be archived anywhere. I don't suppose you happen to have a list of York City wartime guests I could cite do you? The only reference I've found online is a brief mention in a fanzine. Just thought I'd ask as I see you're a supporter. Thanks, Nzd (talk) 01:33, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

I've added a reference, which also lists more wartime clubs that I've included in the article. Mattythewhite (talk) 14:26, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

That's great, thanks for doing that. Nzd (talk) 20:18, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Template:Uw-live updates

Hello Matty,

I would like you to take a look at a template I have done - Template:Uw-live updates since I have noticed that many editors have updated stats during sports matches. For this, I will do a test on this template and see what comes up:-

Hello, I'm Iggy the Swan. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions to Jamie Vardy have been undone because you've updated the statistics during a live match. This is known as a live update and should not be done until the match the player is in has completely finished. If you think I made a mistake or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Iggy (talk) 19:09, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

See what you think of that and it may be added to the Twinkle category. This would be in a way distinguish live updates from unconstuctive. Thanks, Iggy (talk) 19:09, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Whether something so specific would ever be added to Twinkle I don't know, but it's worth exploring. I'd take it to WT:FOOTY for more feedback. One question I do have: is there a specific policy, guideline, MoS etc that can be linked to in the message? Editors often cite WP:LIVEUPDATES when reverting live updates, although this is a snooker-specific MoS. Mattythewhite (talk) 22:11, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

I have seen the page you put up with WP:LIVEUPDATES and seen that discussion on Snooker, and I have taken this to WT:FOOTY and see what other editors come up with - it can come to WP:MOS in the end. Iggy (talk) 22:24, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Danish IP

Don't know what will it take to bring a third block forth to this utterly idiotic nuisance (please see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:176.23.119.207), but i report it and my wikiconscience is clear. Still building fake squads, now at one of their favourites Boldklubben Frem!

Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 16:37, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Blocked for three months. Mattythewhite (talk) 15:02, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Halloween cheer!

Happy Halloween!

Hello Mattythewhite:
Thanks for all of your contributions to improve Wikipedia, have a happy and enjoyable Halloween and let the pumpkins score goals in football!
– Iggy (talk) 08:11, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Send a Halloween cheer by adding {{subst:Happy Halloween}} to user talk pages with a friendly message.

Matías Almeyda

Hello there, please weigh in this talkpage regarding this article (see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:2A02:587:2806:A200:1D33:B69E:F418:F1B7) ASAP. I have given all the details regarding the major "beefs" in their talkpage, but if you have any additional questions please do "shoot". In their reversion, they continue to remove the "Argentina expatriate football managers" - Mr. Almeyda works in Mexico now - then get all on their high horse because i use an expletive - mind you, EXPLETIVE not INSULT - in the edit summary because i get fed up of them removing it 3/4 times; also written in their page, info that belongs to the Argentina national football team (Argentina played in this tournament, they collected this amount of points against this or that opponent, etc) continues to be inserted in extreme detail to the player's page, not necessary don't you think?

P.S. Article is in my watchlist, and we both have longsince broke the 3RR, please also leave your two cents regarding that. Attentively, thanks in advance --Quite A Character (talk) 22:33, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Newsflash: they wrote "attempting a compromise" in their next edit, then proceeded to REMOVE the aforementioned category AGAIN! I have reverted of course, i am prepared to be blocked if you see it fit for edit-warring, but this is just too much! --Quite A Character (talk) 22:43, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
- Not sure I'd agree about the level of detail, although the content appears to be unsourced. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:27, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Apologies directed to the user in question, they did not remove the category but wrongly relocated it. However, in a quite serious move, they continue to remove (only noticed it now) a 100% valid BBC Sport source which backs up his Lazio spell! I have also told them about their international career additions being unsourced, and redirected them to you. --Quite A Character (talk) 23:45, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Situation spiralling out of control, in spite of my friendly notes, the BBC SPORT source has been removed on countless occasions, i guess that (kind of) warrants my reversions no? Please do weigh in, on their page! --Quite A Character (talk) 00:03, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Completely out of my hands this situation, the person inserts stuff that needs sourcing, i revert but then go back on my judgement and go and find sources MYSELF for stuff THEY wrote, they still revert me!! Help please (they keep reinstating the bit about Almeyda starting in the 1998 FIFA World Cup because he was liked by coach Passarella, i tell them it cannot stay unless it is sourced, they say "talk to the hand". PLEASE drop a line in their talkpage Matty, maybe they'll heed then), please --Quite A Character (talk) 01:02, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

They say it was done by mistake, i guess i'll have to take their word for it... I reinstated some bits about Mr. Almeyda's international career, again went on the hunt for refs and found two :) --Quite A Character (talk) 01:30, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - November 2017

Delivered November 2017 by MediaWiki message delivery.
If you do not wish to receive the newsletter, please add an N to the column against your username on the Project Mainpage.

13:35, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Dominic Solanke

I don't understand what you are talking about. Dominic Solanke is a Nigerian because his father is a full blooded Nigerian. he was born in England, that does not take away him been a Nigerian. The name "Solanke" is a Nigerian name of the Yoruba people in western Nigeria. Michaelgodstimeake (talk) 16:58, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Utter nonsense. He was born in England, raised in England and has represented England at international level. These are not superseded by Mr Solanke having one Nigerian parent. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:44, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Virgil Van Dijk

He has been Southampton Captain until his injury in January against Leicester City Connor Mc (talk) 21:34, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

And what about the nonsense you added about Tuchel? Mattythewhite (talk) 21:35, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Harry Kane

Hello, has Harry Kane been assigned as permanent captain or only on a temporary basis. Thank You. Kind regards ChocolateRabbit 00:15, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

No. Southgate has been rotating the captaincy, see this. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:46, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Thank You. Kind regards ChocolateRabbit 21:49, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Riyad Mahrez

Hi Matty, I am wondering if you have the rights to changed the visibility of two revisions on Riyad Mahrez, both made by 86.31.107.146. The user has added a mobile phone number which, by my opinion, should not be visible to the public especially if it is a real one. Iggy (talk) 22:12, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Revision text deleted. Mattythewhite (talk) 22:58, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks. Iggy (talk) 15:53, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Stats tables

Hello. In principle, using the specific name of the national cup or league cup in the column headings is informative and helpful to the reader, where a player has only played in one country. But perhaps it might be more straightforward to stick to the wordings used at the suggested format, if only to avoid confusing whoever updates it when the player changes country – or confusing the reader, where no-one does update it... As to footnotes, I'm sure that in the past I've annotated League Cup column headings to the effect of

{{efn|Includes appearances in [[Football League Cup]] and [[Isthmian League Cup]]}}

although I'm also sure I usually just stick Isthmian League Cup and the like under Other. I'd have no problem with adding a similar note to the National Cup column heading.

On another note, now that nice Mr Gray's got money to spend it's hardly fair on Darlo that he keeps nicking his former players... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 10:11, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

All very well getting the ground grading if the team's too weak to reach the playoffs... Probably I would prefer any note to go in the heading where it's less intrusive but still conveys the information. Might be better row-by-row in extreme cases, for those few players who do change national associations every season. People don't like too much change: there's still resistance to {{updated|match played...}}, or distinguishing between no appearances in a competition they could have played in and no appearances because there was no such competition. Talking of which, I've remembered one page where I annotated a League Cup column: Mark Duffy (how his previous owners could use a midfielder that could pass a ball). cheers, Struway2 (talk) 12:06, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Séamus Coleman#Infobox dates

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Séamus Coleman#Infobox dates. Lots of changes between timestamps between two dates in March to "15:04 1 July". Iggy (talk) 16:56, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

I tried mediating in an awfully similar discussion a few months ago to not much avail, so I'm not really up for doing it again... Mattythewhite (talk) 17:24, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

I have noticed that you did edits to the page during the 2017–18 season era, one of them would be the timestamps so I can see why you would not be doing that again. Iggy (talk) 19:01, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Iggy if you want to kick me out I will go. No need to get Matty involved on this. Cheers. Davekgoodnight (talk) 19:11, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

I was not intending to do that Davekgoodnight, however I do apologise for the inconvenience caused here.

Cyrus Christie

Why should the loan periods be after the parent club when chronologically they took place before he ever even played a game for the parent club? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stoffn514 (talk • contribs) 16:56, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

He played his first game for Coventry *before* playing for either loan club. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:23, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Even with that, why would the loan periods come after his seasons at Coventry when they took place in 2010-11 and his last season with Coventry was 2013-14. It makes no sense to have the loan periods be after the 2013-14 season.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stoffn514 (talk • contribs) 00:15, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Alan White (English footballer)

Hello. Can you move the talk page back as well please? can't do it myself because the target page has been edited since the move. thanks, Struway2 (talk) 10:03, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Done. Mattythewhite (talk) 15:37, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Shaun Miller

Hello. I was just going to ask what I did wrong editing this player and how I can correct it. Thanks. Youngtomlin (talk) 17:22, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

I explained on your talk page. You need to update the dates in career stats tables when you update the figures. Mattythewhite (talk) 22:39, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Casemiro

Apologies for the (yet another) outburst in the summaries (no insults or expletives, just downright histerical). Having said that sincerely, the following doubt: is the linking of publishers overlinking? If so, i'll stop doing it of course but cannot help but wonder what can be linked in football-related articles without going against the guidelines, clubs, managers and players? Regarding my move of reinstating the "publisher" field instead of the "newspaper" one it was 100% wrong of course, but it was due to me wanting the display of all the sources to be similar.

P.S. I have improved the display of several other sources at this player. Sorry for any inconvenience --Quite A Character (talk) 21:33, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

I personally think linking the publisher is unnecessary, but I'm not aware of any relevant guideline/policy. Mattythewhite (talk)

@Quite A Character: & Matty - this explains about the linking of publishers - although the same publisher should only be linked at most once due to WP:LINK as all references go to the bottom of pages. Iggy (talk) 00:11, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, both. Regarding your input Iggy, of course, i only link each publisher once. --Quite A Character (talk) 19:30, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Belgium national football team

Привет, я Vstnfootball. Я заметил, что на странице Belgium national football team нет статистики топ 10 игроков с наибольшим количеством матчей и топ 10 игроков с наибольшим количеством голов (эта статистика есть почти на всех страницах сборных по футболу). Сборная Бельгии по футболу является одной из лучших, поэтому я решил добавить недостающую статистику с этой страницы: матчи - Belgium_national_football_team_records#Appearances и голы - Belgium_national_football_team_records#Goals_2 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vstnfootball (talk • contribs) 17:20, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

In English, please? Mattythewhite (talk) 17:29, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi, I'm Vstnfootball (Moscow, Russia). I noticed that on the page of the Belgium national football team there are no statistics of the top 10 players with most matches and the top 10 players with most goals (this statistics is on almost all the pages of the national football teams). Belgian national football team is one of the best, so I decided to add the missing statistics from this page: matches - Belgium_national_football_team_records # Appearances goals - Belgium_national_football_team_records # Goals_2 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vstnfootball (talk • contribs) 17:52, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. However, content needs to be referenced by reliable sources, and in your edit you didn't add any. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:07, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

rsssf http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/belg-recintlp.html#app http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/belg-recintlp.html#goals — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vstnfootball (talk • contribs) 18:20, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Gabriel Jesus

4 out of his 7 goals this season have been tap ins. Also his first ever premier league goal was a tap in. Mr Oof (talk) 22:53, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Dean Furman

Apologies, am still learning how to use Wikipedia! Here are some sources to prove that Dean Furman went to JFS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFS_(school) https://www.thejc.com/sport/sport-news/nothing-to-lose-1.30477 JustineTannenbaum (talk) 16:21, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Giovani dos Santos

Hi, Mattythewhite, I made an edit in Giovani Dos Santos. I found his Unique Population Registry Code in the Mexican gov database. It is says clearly that he was registered in Mexico City. Greetings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CoroneldelNorte (talk • contribs) 21:35, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Adrien Silva

Even though he will only be allowed to play from JANUARY 2018 onwards, he/the club completed the move in SEPTEMBER 2017. Thus, his infobox should reflect the latter year and not the former, no? Am i missing something here (to avoid further wasting everyone's time with an edit war of sorts)? This, not to mention current club has been hidden in box/intro even though he IS a Leicester player.

Attentively, thanks in advance --Quite A Character (talk) 18:56, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Tricky one as it's an unusual situation. I would go with 2017 as that is the year he signed. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:26, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the input! User:Iggy the Swan, maybe you are interested as well in reading this? --Quite A Character (talk) 22:59, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Refs in List of Manchester United F.C. players (25–99 appearances)

I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation of the documentation of Template:cite web. It's not necessarily immediately obvious to the lay reader that ManUtd.com is published by Manchester United, hence the need for the website parameter, and also the company that publishes the website is referred to at the bottom of the page as "Manchester United Ltd"; since we're not supposed to include "Ltd", "PLC" or anything like that, it should suffice to put "Manchester United" in the 'publisher' parameter. I don't think there's anything in the documentation for the template that says it has to match with the club's parent article here. – Pee Jay 22:11, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

I see where you're coming from and won't revert if you restore this format, although I can't say I'm convinced about the need for the website parameter. Mattythewhite (talk) 01:44, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

PenguinsElite

Hi Matty,

I think PenguinsElite has been editing again. The contributions on certain pages are those of previous socks and all of the usernames are in CamelCase form. I suspected that on the Simon Grayson article that I asked the question in an edit summary and this TheBatmanMan account is likely to be the section heading name. See what you think about it. Iggy (talk) 23:09, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Looks like and sounds like a duck... Mattythewhite (talk) 23:32, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Adam Reed

Hey Mattythewhite, Adam Reed and Adam Tull are the same person, he is registered in the league as a local player. Philippines Football League is the new top-tier league in the Philippines. Kaya also changed their name into Kaya F.C.-Makati since it is a national league, they have to add names of the City they are representing. I have an article saying that Adam Reed is Adam Tull. Read this: https://www.rappler.com/sports/by-sport/football/189817-azkals-to-join-pocket-tournament-in-taiwan?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=referral&utm_medium=share_bar DarkStriker22 (talk) 00:21, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, I've restored your edit. Mattythewhite (talk) 00:27, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Sonny Bradley

I provided multiple reliable sources for the update and table expansion. Reverting to a page which says he has made 9 fewer appearances than he actually has (yet includes the 2 goals scored in those matches) is bizarre. Not all IPs are vandals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:A598:2400:B1FB:9453:BAF0:4C41 (talk) 20:48, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Provide them in the article, not the edit summary. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:51, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Thanks for doing this, It's nice to see someone cutting to the chase and dealing with this in the most obvious way, There's being clueless and then there's just taking the piss!, Anyway thanks for ending that once and for all - much appreciated, Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 23:17, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Reverting Abelardo article

Hi, Matty. Please, pay attention about to who do you send the messages about the lack of citations, because mine was only about changing a dash and the real one who did the change was not adviced. Anyway, I gave the citation you wanted. Greetings. Asturkian (talk) 19:27, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have messaged User:Anassas. And thanks for going out of your way to provide a citation. Thanks, Mattythewhite (talk) 19:30, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - November 2017

Delivered December 2017 by MediaWiki message delivery.
If you do not wish to receive the newsletter, please add an N to the column against your username on the Project Mainpage.

19:34, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Dennis Wise

@Mattythewhite: I was never trying to vandalise "Dennis Wise", I was trying prevent any other editors vandalising the page by putting '"Do Not add'" anything about him being a small man. Pepper Gaming (talk) 22:19, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Why would anyone do that? Mattythewhite (talk) 22:21, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

as IPs keep vandalising the page amd putting that he is a small man Pepper Gaming (talk) 22:42, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Joleon Lescott

Hey Matty. Just sending you a message to try to wrap my head around how this all works - obviously I am referring to your revert of my edit of the Lescott article. Now, I am fully aware that I didn't source that edit, because simply there's no source for it besides a handful of tweets and blog posts about it. That's not to say that it's all hearsay - one of the tweets was SoccerAM themselves tweeting a 90 second clip of the actual interview where Lescott himself said that this was his new job - but it is all constituted of sources that Wikipedia would not consider to be citable.

So my question is this: given that there is no source for this news aside from those kinds of urls which cannot be cited, and given that it is highly unlikely that this will get publicised after this point, at what point can we ever update Lescott's profile? Do we have to treat this like the countless examples of other footballers who have retired without any public announcement, and essentially wait 1-2 years to confirm that he will never find a new club to play for before quietly changing their profile to say "former footballer", as seems to be the case with the majority of minor players? And after that will an edit be allowable under the generally accepted premise that once a player retires and falls out of the public eye it's a lot easier to put in unsourced changes to their article? Or do we have to say that anything uncitable will never be allowed and accept that his article will never be allowed to show this information? Essentially, my question is a kind of rewording of the age-old Wikipedia question: how do you edit Wikipedia to show something that is completely unverifiable, even if everyone knows it is true? Falastur2 ^Talk 10:35, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

The simple answer is you can't, because of WP:V and WP:OR. It does seem surprising that there is no coverage in reliable sources for this, though. You'd have thought it would have got some sort of mention of Man City's website. Maybe it's an informal role that the club didn't see worthy of reporting. Mattythewhite (talk) 15:43, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Manchester City, and the wider City Football Group, are not an organisation which likes to make things public. Sure, they love to do campy little fan interaction things, but they are very much of the Middle Eastern school of thought in business (and this is no criticism nor racially driven comment - I have nothing against it as a way of doing things, aside from finding it irritating as a guy who likes to follow news and understand how things work behind the scenes) that you give as little information away as possible and you let your success stories be your PR campaigns. Their PR manager (I've met him personally, and found him to be one of the most slimy individuals I've ever encountered) is notorious in the business for simply not responding even to internationally recognised journalists if it doesn't suit his agenda - I seem to recall Grant Wahl going on a Twitter rant about how anti-publicity the guy is - and the fans of both NYCFC and Melbourne City get fairly irate about the way that CFG won't even give information on the length of time players will be out with injuries, or even what is wrong with them.

Anyway, so what I am trying to say is thank you for your answer and I take your point and will have to reluctantly abandon this update, but from my point of view as someone who has followed very closely all of the CFG clubs for as long as CFG has existed I have to say that no, it is far from surprising that there is no coverage in reliable sources for this... Falastur2 ^Talk 00:04, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Adam Priestley

It's not vandalism. I just don't use tweets when sourcing as I don't think they count. But here: https://twitter.com/FarsleyCelticFC/status/939185845784870913 I don't think you get what vandalism is. VampireKilla (talk) 02:57, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

So you think it's better to cite no source *at all* than to cite the club's official Twitter? Right... Mattythewhite (talk) 02:59, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Weights in infoboxes

Hi Matty,

Recently, I have noticed on the article Chris Froome about the persistent removing and re-inserting of the sourced weight. As I think that weight can actually change with various sportspeople, I do not think the weights of sports people should be included in Wikipedia. In footballer's infoboxes, I have not seen any weight details from Wayne Rooney to Jon Parkin - infoboxes do not include them. In tennis, an anonymous user proposed to remove the weight field from the infoboxes in that sport which they have removed such as Andy Murray's. In fact, a discussion was made at "Weight"_field_must_be_removed here about the removal of the weight field. The anonymous user has a point in removing the weight details on Chris Froome - the fact that I think weight details are unreliable data as they 'fluctuate' from time to time. See what you think on this message - weight details are currently found on athletes and rugby union players. Iggy (talk) 16:07, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

I wouldn't support including them in infoboxes for footballers, for the reason above and the difficulty in sourcing them. For other sports, can't say I have an opinion. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:55, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Untitled

Hi there I am new to Wikipedia. You recently messaged me about my reply on changing Deon Burton. I know this as he lives at a addres in Sutton Coldfield which where I live. How do I provide a reliable source so it does not get deleted. Also there is eveidence on companies house for Deon Burton Footballs academy which registered address is Sutton Coldfield. Edit360 (talk) 20:50, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Hi, you can't add content that you *personally* know per WP:OR. Content has to be verifiable. As for Companies House, I'm not sure it is considered a reliable source. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:53, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Eden Hazard reverted changes

If a brace is not notable enough, then i don't know what is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Partheshmittal (talk • contribs) 03:28, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Women in Red World Contest

Hi. We're into the last five days of the Women in Red World Contest. There's a new bonus prize of $200 worth of books of your choice to win for creating the most new women biographies between 0:00 on the 26th and 23:59 on 30th November. If you've been contributing to the contest, thank you for your support, we've produced over 2000 articles. If you haven't contributed yet, we would appreciate you taking the time to add entries to our articles achievements list by the end of the month. Thank you, and if participating, good luck with the finale! — Preceding unsigned comment added by MediaWiki message delivery (talk • contribs) 03:10, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Ben Foster

Hello. Just to let you know that I'm about to undo the part of your edit to Ben Foster that changed his height to metric and changed the source to his Premier League profile. The minor reason is that a player's PL profile retains content like height only as long as he's a PL player – compare John Terry's profile of February this year, when he was still a Chelsea player, to his current one – so it's not an improvement on a stable RS ref that shows the same height. But the main reason is your changing it to display in metric. WP:UNITS makes clear that, in non-scientific articles relating to UK subjects, the primary units for personal height and weight are feet/inches and stones/pounds, and that if the source is in metric {{convert|order=flip}} can be used to ensure MoS-compliant display. Where an article is stable in whichever format it uses, particularly if it's the correct one, it's best to leave it be. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 10:10, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, as per you're spot on. I've flipped the units at Eric Dier, does it look right to you? Thanks, Mattythewhite (talk) 15:47, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Looks fine. Be careful though if you make many changes. The height-wars sanctions are still in force, and from what I remember, imposing the MoS to excess was just as disruptive as following the sources or imposing one's unit of choice :-) cheers, Struway2 (talk) 16:54, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Oh my, only on Wikipedia could a height-war be an actual thing... Mattythewhite (talk) 17:12, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Sources

Hi I'm sorry for my mistake,I didn't pay attention but be careful: I'm trying to do everything to change Wikipedia pages, and sorry if sometimes I don't watch sources carefully also because I edit a lot of pages every day, especially in Italian Wikipedia were I edited a lot of things and created pages. Valentinenba97 (talk) 16:32, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Inzaghi Donígio

Hi there,

what's your intake on this if you please? Among other changes to the article of this obscure chap (even by Portuguese standards!) i inserted a whoops tag. Do you think it applies in this case (my reasoning is "quite unusual African name OR surname, surname belonging to two renowned italian players/coaches")? If not, feel free to remove it and sorry for any inconvenience my edit may have incurred in.

Thanks in advance, continue the good work --Quite A Character (talk) 16:47, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Looks fine to me. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:14, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

England vs English

Hi friend, if you feel English is better than England then feel free to revert all my changes, I'll also help by changing other articles from England to English. Thanks and Happy Editing. Have a Merry Christmas ---- ChocolateRabbit 22:59, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Wilfried Zaha

Hi, how quickly do Soccerbase update the career summary stats at the top of the page as a rule? Today's game is included in the games played but the figure at the top for the overall total in the current spell is one match short of 'our' total. Also, the two loan spells to Palace aren't shown as such in the table which can be confusing at first sight. Cheers. Eagleash (talk) 23:21, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

It usually takes a few hours for them to update the career tables. It's now up to date at my end and I've updated the article accordingly. And standard practice is to include loan stats with permanent spells if they came in the same season, as was the case with both of Zaha's loan spells at Palace. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:27, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Ah right. Soccerbase is still showing 95 apps and 15 goals for me which I think is each one short. I'll check it again in the morning... Eagleash (talk) 23:46, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Luke Shaw

Hi mate, I noticed you removed Shaw's 2017 Europa League title. Looking at the source I do totally agree with your point on it not being good, and I am happy to remove it, but the fact is that in European competition you pre-register your squads and everyone in the squad then gets a medal if you win it. Shaw was in United's, as shown http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2017/Feb/Manchester-United-submit-updated-squad-to-UEFA-for-Europa-League.aspx. He also played in 4 games (not 7 as I wrote in my edit) during the tournament. Cheers. Davefelmer (talk) 07:58, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

A penguin for you!

	A penguin for you!
	Identifying PenguinsElite socks in 2017 and presumably will continue to do so whenever the user begins editing under sock puppet accounts.. Iggy (talk) 18:20, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Haha! Mattythewhite (talk) 20:54, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Paul Clement (football manager)

I see that you have locked this article. Are you happy with the edits by User:86.165.82.80 which have deleted valid, appropriate and fully cited content? As you may see from his edit history, this is his only edit. 92.26.172.4 (talk) 22:10, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

The content, while cited, seems a little excessive, especially the chairman quote. Mattythewhite (talk) 22:26, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

OK I'm happy to defer to your views. Best wishes, especially for the festive season. 92.26.172.4 (talk) 22:46, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Nat Knight Percival pob

Hi Matty,

Thanks for your message. I corrected NKP's pob (to Enfield); I'm afraid I don't have a web reference for that, but it is recorded on his birth certificate. The information on hugmansfootballers website is wrong.

Regards, Steve Percival. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.3.80.15 (talk) 22:13, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Hi, I've changed with the POB to Enfield using a new source. Do you have any idea why Hugman might have thought it was Cambridge? Thanks, Mattythewhite (talk) 22:22, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

NKP lived in Cambridge from the age of 3, so it may have been assumed he was born there, but I've no idea where hugman gets his info. Rgds, SteveP. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.3.80.15 (talk) 22:31, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Hi Matty, I suspect the Bradford Telegraph and Argus article sourced the pob from wikipedia ;-)

This might be a more reliable reference (although it's not quite as specific):

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=34&gss=sfs28_ms_f-34&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&gsfn=nathaniel%20lawrence&gsfn_x=0&gsln=knight-percival&gsln_x=1&cp=0&MSAV=1&uidh=000

Rgds, SteveP. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.3.80.15 (talk) 23:02, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Quite possible they did, but it's a reliable source nonetheless. I think ancestry.co.uk is considered a primary source and so shouldn't be used. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:18, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

What's wrong with you?

Why on earth do you keep reverting my perfectly valid, true edits? Does this provide you with a litany of righteous pleasure? Or perhaps is it a welcome juxtaposition to the uneventful life you lead as a York supporter, revelling in tragic mediocrity? Do let all of us know, as I've heard several complaints from other contributors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ssam2335 (talk • contribs) 09:48, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Whoah, I reverted a couple of unsourced edits, there's no need to make this personal. See WP:V for more info on sourcing content. Mattythewhite (talk) 15:15, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Seasons' Greetings

...to you and yours, from the Great White North! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 03:42, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

And to you :) Mattythewhite (talk) 15:16, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Demarai Gray

Hi.. I'm new! — Preceding unsigned comment added by EZZY123 (talk • contribs) 03:58, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Welcome. I reverted your edit as it was unsourced, see WP:V for more info on sourcing content. Mattythewhite (talk) 14:46, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

RE: Infobox dates

Thanks for the message. I will keep it in mind from now. RRD (talk) 16:46, 25 December 2017 (UTC)