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Ongoing RfC at Template talk:Cases in 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic

Calling attention to an RfC at Template talk:Cases in 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic#Mainland China to discuss if we should be consistent in defining "Mainland China" and which total we should be using. Thanks, United States Man (talk) 02:38, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Extending automatic archiving period

Do we really need to automatically archive discussions after only 36 hours of inactivity? The bulk of the discussions are edit requests that are fulfilled within hours and some of us are archiving them after roughly 24 hours if they were accepted. That should leave enough room for other topics requiring further discussion. --MarioGom (talk) 00:09, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

I have restored archiving time to 2 days. --MarioGom (talk) 08:33, 23 March 2020 (UTC)


I did search the archives, and had a difficult time finding it, although a part from the criteria (which I am not arguing for the removal of Northern Cyprus), I am just in support of adding a note for clarification. ChaoticTexan (talk) 02:48, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

San Marino on 23 March 2020

Please update San Marino confirmed cases count to 187, according to [1] 😷 garyCZEk 📢 ✍ ｛🧒👧👦🚲💻🚗🍣｝ 14:54, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

I updated the number, thanks. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 03:26, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 March 2020

+2 cases for Bosnia and Herzegovina (total: 130) N1/CNN Avaz Klix.ba --5.43.82.5 (talk) 14:46, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

I updated the number, thanks. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 03:27, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Guyana 19?

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 says Guyana has 19 cases. I believe this website could still be considered reliable. Luke Kern Choi 5 (talk) 05:50, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

All wrong, they are for French Guyana. Not the only site to screw this up. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 03:35, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Congrats to everyone!

I think we are catching up quickly. With an incredible amount of daily edits, our data is no longer significantly lagging. For the first time this week, on 23 March, I noticed that we updated several countries way before than any other aggregate tracker. This happened, at least, with Germany, Japan, Norway or Spain. It is worth noting that whenever we were ahead of other aggregate trackers, we were forced to use reliable sources properly. Keep up the good work! --MarioGom (talk) 09:16, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Please Updated Laos

Laos has recorded first two cases of Covid-19 in this link below https://m.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Laos-records-first-two-coronavirus-cases-Thai-Media-622110 James17 (talk) 09:01, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

James17:  Done. Thank you! --MarioGom (talk) 09:50, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Ireland cases

Update the number of cases to 1125 on coronavirus 2020europe page also AnsuAnn (talk) 07:59, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Someone already did it. Thank you! --MarioGom (talk) 09:51, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Table Totals

This was brought up before (and has been archived), and the consensus seemed to be that totals should sum the figures in the table, not be imported from another source. Plainly this hasn’t happened. The sum of Cases, Deaths and Recoveries does not correspond to the totals given. Ptilinopus (talk) 09:08, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Ptilinopus: Indeed, consensus seemed to lean towards doing our own sum (discussion). Rich Farmbrough had a work in progress template to automate the sum, but it does not seem to be ready yet. I would say let's go for it. It is worth noting that Doc James suggested going by the higher figure for totals: ours or WOMC's. --MarioGom (talk) 09:58, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
I think we should add up our own columns. However I only update the totals every so often to avoid edit conflicts due to long edits. I try to keep the edit window open for as short as possible. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:42, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
It's not a case of "ready yet" so much as the template being a moving target. Numbers and references are constantly being changed, and of course countries added. All the best: Rich Farmbrough (the apparently calm and reasonable) 11:06, 23 March 2020 (UTC).
The problem is that we are struggling to stay up to date. Numbers for all 200 countries will increase on a daily basis soon.
Thus if our sum is higher sure we should use it. If the sum from another source is higher than I do not see an issue with using it. Otherwise we will rapidly become out of date.
Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:14, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
I'm ok with both approaches. While I'm not so fond of WOMC for individual countries, I don't think it hurts that much in totals. On the other hand, if we can automate the sum of our figures, I think that outweighs a slight staleness of data. I think we are updating fast enough for the lag to be negligible. --MarioGom (talk) 16:06, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Note that Worldometer may be double-counting some territories in their totals. For example, they list Martinique, Guadeloupe et al. but their figures for France already include these territories. --MarioGom (talk) 14:57, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 March 2020

Update Israel to 1656 cases, 1 death, 49 recovered (see Johns Hopkins dashboard, Israel page, https://t.me/MOHreport, etc.) Eitan1989 (talk) 15:32, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

@Eitan1989:  Done independently. Numbers in Haaretz updated to 3 deaths, 50 recovered and reflected here. James F. (talk) 17:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 March 2020

Ukraine - confirmed cases rose from 84 to 97, according to https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2020/03/24/7244906/ (Already changed in the "2020 coronavirus pandemic in Ukraine" wiki-page) RomanKlasnyy (talk) 15:02, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

@RomanKlasnyy:  Done. James F. (talk) 17:26, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Iran' s CCF update

Iran latest CCF is 24,811 and death toll is 1,934, can anyone kindly amend (-: https://en.irna.ir/news/83726121/Iran-s-coronavirus-death-toll-hits-1-934 BlackSun2104 (talk) 12:38, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Iran's CCF should have increased by now, it still remain unchanged, what is the reason for that ??🤔 BlackSun2104 (talk) 13:24, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

BlackSun2104: You may want to read Wikipedia:Wikipedia is a volunteer service and Wikipedia:There is no deadline. Thank you for your patience. --MarioGom (talk) 15:42, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
BlackSun2104 In short, please keep in mind that none of us are robots; we are humans like you and therefore have our own lives to manage. As such, we are not necessarily on this page editing the case counts 24/7.
Your option is to simply wait for your edit requests to be handled.
Hope that addresses your concerns. RayDeeUx (talk) 17:31, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Add note for "Northern Cyprus" or combine with Cyprus

"Northern Cyprus" is only recognized by Turkey, the international community does not give it validation. I understand the purpose of listing the region though, as the sources/reports of COVID-19 are not being reported by Cyrpus for the northern region.

"Northern Cyprus" should be clearly identified as a defacto state, or by stating "only recognized by Turkey". The other suggestion is that Northern Cyprus be joined with Cyprus, although I am in favor of the first option.

It is necessary for clarification, that Northern Cyrpus not be given any legitimacy as a seemingly existant territory. Akbhaza and other defacto states with only one country recognizing them are not listed. It is important that readers are presented with academic honesty. ChaoticTexan (talk) 00:43, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Not to get into the hot and dicey waters of politics, but one could use these similar issues with Taiwan. There is already a note/efn annotation for Cyprus that indicates that the cases for Northern Cyprus and Cyprus are separate.
This table is only meant for covering case counts for locations where cases of COVID-19 were diagnosed. It would be best if political issues such as this one play as small of a role in listing those case counts.
I'll go by the benefit of the doubt and assume that you've already viewed the past discussions about the policy of listing territories on this table/template, and realized that the issue of Northern Cyprus and Cyprus was never touched upon. However, should you discover that what I've assumed is not the case, please view those discussions in the archives whenever you have time.
Hope that addresses your concerns. RayDeeUx (talk) 01:59, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
I understand the political debate regarding it, although of all territories listed for COVID-19, Northern Cyprus is unique. As I previously stated, I am okay with it being listed but it is academically dishonest to present it as a country/territory that has a similar status to the rest. Yes Taiwan is controversial, although it isn't only supported by one state. It also has a history with the United Nations whereas Northern Cyrprus does not. Northern Cyprus is as subjective as one person calling the sky red. If it had more validity I would be okay with excluding the note. Although the reason listed for removing the note, had to do with it being called subjective (not according to the rest of the world minus Turkey). I kindly encourage people to research the legitimacy of the self-proclaimed country, you'll find it is just as valid as Akbhazia, South Ossetia (which has more recognition than Northern Cyprus), and other territories. Information needs to be as precise as possible, it is disingenuous to imply the legitimacy of Northern Cyprus. ChaoticTexan (talk) 03:03, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
NC is definitely in a completely different situation with Taiwan. Taiwan is internationally recognised by quite a few states across the globe, and definitely not a puppet state (although commies accuses Taiwan of being an American puppet state all the time, USA doesn't even recognise Taiwan officially lol). But, in the case of NC, it is only recognised by one state, which is turkey. And this this lead to that the former is widely considered a sock puppet and the latter its suzerainty. Pktlaurence (talk) 11:45, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Whether to list a country here should not be about political recognition, but about how the sources are reporting cases. We are even listing a ship here. I prefer to list any unrecognized country that has reported cases and is not included in the number reported by the respective recognized country. Taiwan, Palestine, Northern Cyprus and Kosovo are listed because they have reported cases and are not included in the numbers reported by China, Israel, Cyprus and Serbia. Transnistria has also reported cases, but it's not listed separately because they are already included in the number reported by Moldova. Other unrecognized countries like Abkhazia and South Ossetia aren't listed simply because they haven't reported any cases so far, but if they do and Georgia doesn't include them, they should be listed as well. I support listing Northern Cyprus in italics like the ship or adding a note to clarify its limited recognition, but not combining the number with Cyprus. The numbers are changing frequently and I'd rather avoid calculations in every update. Heitordp (talk) 19:52, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Turkey numbers announced on 24 March 2020

Turkey: Coronavirus death toll climbs to 44 Health minister announces 343 new cases, bringing tally to 1,872 State agency citation: Kara Aydin, Havva (2020-03-24). "Turkey: Coronavirus death toll climbs to 44". Anadolu Agency. Retrieved 2020-03-24. Canerguclu (talk) 19:59, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done Interstellarity (talk) 20:18, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
Death number still not updated to 44, I have corrected the title of the ref. Canerguclu (talk) 21:13, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
To editor Canerguclu:  done. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 22:28, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Making the numbers easier to import to another wiki

Hello, I know it doesn't concern English Wikipedia, but I'm currently importing the numbers automatically with my bot. It used to match the numbers after | style="padding:0px 2px;"| and put it in the formatnum so it will automatically show the Bangla numerals in Bangla Wikipedia (bn). However, recent format was changed to just a | sign, which would be difficult to match as it's just one sign. Is it possible to put the numbers in English Wikipedia within {{formatnum:12345|en}} so the numbers can be easily displayed on other wikis with own numerals as well? Thanks. — T. 22:14, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

@Jc86035: I'm tagging you as you made the changes. Maybe you have other ideas to make things easier? — T. 22:18, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
@Wikitanvir: You could do a regular expression search for ^\| ?([0-9,]*) and use the replacement text |{{formatnum:$1}}. This would actually be possible using the normal wikitext editor, but a bot could do it as well (though I don't know what software you're using).
The reason I've gone to the trouble of removing the formatting is that the main article is still exceeding the template size limit. Jc86035 (talk) 22:22, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply @Jc86035:, Your regex ^\| ?([0-9,]*) matches |9,037 but not |100. — T. 22:28, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
However, you could enter the number in formatnum right? It wouldn't increase the size that much I hope. The reason I'm saying this, because then none of us need to change the numbers at all, it would automatically display in their own numerals if the have. — T. 22:30, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
@Wikitanvir: Are you sure it doesn't match? I'm testing it and it appears to work for both of those test cases. (Do note that the text needs to be at the very start of the line for the regex to work.) Yes, we could add FORMATNUM here, but, you know, I would still prefer if we didn't have to, since it's not necessary for this Wikipedia nor for many others. Jc86035 (talk) 22:41, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
@Jc86035:, I understand your concern for not using FORMATNUM. I use Pywikipedia's user-fixes.py for this. I checked your regex here. Could you please confirm? — T. 23:03, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
@Wikitanvir: Try using \n\| ?([0-9,]*) instead and then reinserting the line break. Jc86035 (talk) 23:06, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
@Wikitanvir: Alternately, use the "multiline" flag. Jc86035 (talk) 23:32, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Update Colombia

Colombia: 378 cases Source: https://twitter.com/MinSaludCol/status/1242572459259371522 National Ministry of HealthJuan C. S. H. (talk) 23:33, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Updated, thank you. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:57, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 March 2020

Panama has 443 confirmed cases and 8 deaths. Source: https://www.tvn-2.com/nacionales/defunciones-contagiados-pandemia-COVID-19-Panama_0_5540445980.html 190.219.162.190 (talk) 23:54, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Updated, thank you. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 01:00, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Mortality Rate

Hi! Can we add a column of mortality rate (deaths / cases)? DRosenbach (Talk | Contribs) 00:12, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

This has been discussed many times before, see the archives to see why it is not happening. We will let viewers draw their own conclusion. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 01:01, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

I have clarified the links so people don't think they're clicking on the country's regular article by putting (more info), per WP:EASTEREGG. I made the text small to minimise space, so it and still leaves plenty of room. But feel free to revert if I am missing something. Keiiri (talk) 02:09, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

I suspect the vast majority of readers are not looking to learn about the history, geography, etc. of the country in question. They're just looking for information about COVID-19. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 02:16, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
But it still looks misleading though. What exactly is your objection to it? Clarifying the links makes them more likely to click on it if they're looking for information. People wouldn't click if they think it just leads to the normal article. Keiiri (talk) 02:25, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
"Misleading" is changing the format mid-course. The revert was essential, and rapid. I also was reverting when Suffusion of Yellow beat me to it. Fanx (talk) 02:28, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
Fair enough, but I have to wonder what the objection to this is. Keiiri (talk) 02:30, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
It's common practice to link [[Subject X in Country Y|Country Y]] from "Subject X". See e.g. the countries listed at 2016 Summer Olympics or Eurovision_Song_Contest_2019. It's where I expect to taken, at least, though YMMV. Aside, see WP:VPT#Template include size limit. Until that problem is solved, it's best not add any more bloat to any templates transcluded by 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 02:39, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
My objection (as per my attempted edit summary) is essentially exactly the same as Suffusion of Yellow's (as I understand it) "This is about COVID19 in these countries, not about the countries themselves". Within each nation/territory's local pandemic page there are more than enough links to the countries, and their agencies without cluttering the main template with spurious information or links. Fanx (talk) 02:41, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 March 2020

Jamaica now has twenty five confirmed cases.[1]

72.252.112.184 (talk) 01:07, 25 March 2020 (UTC) 72.252.112.184 (talk) 01:07, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

The twitter appears to come from a journalist. But this is not a reliable source, as the person is not verified. But have they published the information on a web site? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 02:55, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://twitter.com/AbkaFitzHenley/status/1242613963101216768
Any way it has been updated. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:51, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

San Marino on 24 March 2020

Please update San Marino death count to 21, according to official source: http://www.iss.sm/on-line/home/artCataggiornamenti-coronavirus.49004093.1.20.1.html 😷 garyCZEk 📢 ✍ ｛🧒👧👦🚲💻🚗🍣｝ 08:51, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Done thanks, I used http://www.iss.sm/on-line/home/aggiornamenti-coronavirus/articolo49014166.html. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:49, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 March 2020

Please update Iran to 2,077 deaths, as per the already-cited article (2,206 is the number of new cases, and appears to have been inserted here in error). Eitan1989 (talk) 12:48, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 March 2020

Poland total cases 957[2], 13 death in total[3][4] -in that tweet Polish MON stated that we have 957/13 (total coronavirus positiv labconfirmed/total deaths)Natanieluz (talk) 13:54, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Updated United States Man (talk) 18:07, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 March 2020

+74 new confirmed cases in Poland (total of 1031) [5] +1 death (14 tot) Natanieluz (talk) 16:55, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Poland has been updated. United States Man (talk) 18:06, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Please make an update on Colombia

Hi. Colombia now reports 470 cases according to the Ministry of Health. Thanks. Source: https://twitter.com/MinSaludCol/status/1242883888344633345 Juan C. S. H. (talk) 18:49, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done United States Man (talk) 19:36, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 March 2020

Turkey 26 recovered cases. [1] Ozkanyorukoglu (talk) 19:31, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://twitter.com/HaberturkTV/status/1242851698357534721?s=19

Germany's CCF slow to update

Germany 's CCF is now 37,323, please update accordingly. [1] BlackSun2104 (talk) 19:40, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done United States Man (talk) 19:43, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/corona-virus-karte-infektionen-deutschland-weltweit/

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 March 2020

Turkey numbers announced on 25 March 2020

Cases 2.433 New cases 561 Deaths 59 New deaths 15

Source: Minister of Health of the Republic of Turkey https://twitter.com/drfahrettinkoca/status/1242914433325817859 Ozkanyorukoglu (talk) 20:57, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 March 2020

Latvia: change 197 to 221 87.110.170.242 (talk) 21:34, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Spain : urgent update

Spain 's CCF is now 49,515, please update accordingly. https://www.rtve.es/noticias/20200325/mapa-del-coronavirus-espana/2004681.shtml BlackSun2104 (talk) 22:37, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done. --MarioGom (talk) 23:16, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Why does the V.T.E. on the left top corner links to Navbar Collapsible when it should link to this article? Are there any reasons for it? Luke Kern Choi 5 (talk) 00:52, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Not sure what you are referring too? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:36, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
Someone fixed the problem by now!!! Luke Kern Choi 5 (talk) 04:45, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 March 2020

Panama has 558 confirmed cases, 8 deaths and 2 recovered. Source: https://www.tvn-2.com/nacionales/personas-recuperadas-casos-COVID-Panama_0_5541195909.html 190.219.162.190 (talk) 02:57, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 March 2020

Hi, I want to update the data for the chart, in Vietnam's part. It has just been announced that Vietnam has 5 more cases, brings the total number of confirmed cases in 153 cases. If you as an admin still concern, this is the source, from an official newspaper in Vietnam (in English): https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vietnam-confirms-five-new-covid-19-cases-4072818.html. Thank you Roadeditingonline (talk) 11:40, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Roadeditingonline:  Done. Thank you! --MarioGom (talk) 18:03, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 March 2020

New death In italy for 26Th march is 712, total death 8215. Agniv742101 (talk) 20:02, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

It has been updated, thanks. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:39, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Sorting columns causes overlay of notes in Firefox

In Firefox at least, sorting the table by any of the columns seems to overlay the notes (from below the table) over the top of the table. Confirmed this does not happen in Google Chrome. I will probably not have time to look into why, so I'm leaving this here in case someone has time to look/fix. Cheers — Jon (talk) 04:57, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

@Jonathanischoice: I can't reproduce this in Firefox (I tested using Vector, Monobook and Timeless). Jc86035 (talk) 06:34, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Abkhazia and South Ossetia

I notice in footnotes that these two entities are excluded from the figures for Georgia. Do they in fact have any cases? If so, where are they? Either they should be added to Georgia, or they should be listed separately. But currently any such are falling between the cracks of RfC! Ptilinopus (talk) 20:04, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

To MarioGom: RfC related issue. No rush/pressure intended. Apologies for abrupt notice.
To Ptilinopus: As far as I see, the current RfC discussion states that there haven't been cases in both Abkhazia and South Ossetia reported yet.
Hope that helps. RayDeeUx (talk) 20:17, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
Here's the related RfC: #New RfC on countries/dependencies. It is more focused on dependencies and not so much on limited recognition countries. My guess is that the conclusion of the RfC might help to decide on this too. But Ptilinopus question is important to answer in any case: whether there are confirmed cases in these regions and reliable sources for it. --MarioGom (talk) 20:36, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
As of 24 March 2020, Abkhazia and South Ossetia have not reported any case.[6] As such I find it unnecessary to mention that they are excluded from Georgia. Heitordp (talk) 21:49, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
Heitordp: I think we could mention the exclusion now if official Georgia statistics explicitly state that these territories are excluded, and skip the mention otherwise until there are reported cases in these regions. --MarioGom (talk) 10:02, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

New Australian Cases

According to the ABC, 1 354 cases in total (as of 6:35pm AEST on Saturday, March 21, I suspect that this time is wrong. First of all daylight saving, and date vs publication date). https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-22/coronavirus-australia-live-updates-covid-19-latest-news-lockdown/12078506

JMonkey2006 (talk) 11:37, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Superseded now. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:41, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
2 050 cases, 8 deaths as of 7:30 AEDT 24 March 2020 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-24/coronavirus-australia-live-news-covid-19-latest/12083914 JMonkey2006 (talk) 08:44, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
According to the ABC quoting the Deputy Chief Medical Officer, there are 2 252 cases in Australia. However Worldometers and Wikipedia reports a higher number; can we clarify this? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-25/coronavirus-australia-live-updates-covid-19-latest-news/12086520 JMonkey2006 (talk) 03:15, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
2020 coronavirus pandemic in Australia which has a state by state break down currently says 2431, whereas ABC says 2430. But ABC seems to have a wrong number for Tasmania. WOMC has 2423, so they are behind. Don't expect any more updated for 12 hours. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:19, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for updating it Graeme. On another note, I see quite a few sections in this Talk about updating cases for various countries. Is there a way to collate these so non-extended confirmed users can highlight mistakes? I'm new to Wikipedia so I might be unaware of a feature that does this. JMonkey2006 (talk) 10:57, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Fatality rate per country

I think we need an additional column showing the fatality rate per country, at least for countries with 1000 cases or more. The differences in FRs are stark (some countries around 10%, others are 0%). This would be very informative.--27.104.208.183 (talk) 16:53, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

While that would be useful, I believe the commonly held consensus here is that the template would become too wide (especially for mobile devices) should we add any more columns. United States Man (talk) 18:10, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 March 2020

Turkey's pandemic figures are updated every 11:00 pm. Correct figures are: 2433 infected, 55 dead Source: 

https://twitter.com/drfahrettinkoca/status/1242914433325817859

Additionally, Isreal figures are up to date in its own article, yet requires update in this table 82.222.191.74 (talk) 20:57, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

I have update Israel, and someone else did Turkey. Which timezone is 11:00 pm in? Using UTC is good for out editors scattered over the world. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:39, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Mali first cases

Mali first cases 90.209.134.27 (talk) 11:21, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Someone has added it thanks. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:42, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Update Lebanon

Can you update the your references for Lebanon. Lebanon has only 3 references, you missed the reference to the first website "Lebanon Info Center". View technology section on 2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Lebanon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikicontrib20 (talk • contribs) 12:39, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

We won't add more than 3 references as it makes the reference column too wide. But we can store a reference in a comment if it is going to be used again. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:43, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
I think it's better to reference to the official websites that are the one that I suggested https://www.lebanoninfocenter.eu.org/quick-lebanon-info/novel-coronavirus-2019-covid-19/ and https://corona.ministryinfo.gov.lb . Rather than The961.com, which is non-official.

UK : urgent update neeeded

UK's CCF is now 9529, please update accordingly. https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/f94c3c90da5b4e9f9a0b19484dd4bb14 BlackSun2104 (talk) 21:51, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Please indicate the scope - does this include the remote territories? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:29, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
I missed your source, and I can figure out the answer. So I have updated. However death count does not match other sources. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:50, 26 March 2020 (UTC)


Proposal to further simplify table on mobile portrait

AHollender_(WMF) has provided a further proposal to simplify table presentation on mobile in portrait mode: Template talk:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic data/styles.css#Cleaning_up_the_table_for_mobile_web

Please consider to update the template styles accordingly Volker E. (WMF) (talk) 21:53, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

If it formats better, certainly. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:38, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

What about adding 2 columns, % of new cases and death compared to the previous day ?

This would help us understand what is the current status of the pandemic in every country and tell us which country have right/wrong measures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bkrqpzef (talk • contribs) 09:40, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

@Bkrqpzef:, two points: 1) this template gets updated frequently. While the numbers are easy to update, but percentages are not (and wouldn't be logical to update frequently as well). Percentages for most countries don't change much, so comparison won't help for the most. 2) this table is wide enough (if you see it in article), adding two extra columns will make it much wider. — T. 10:18, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
Percent new cases (ie. Today's cases / Yesterday's total cases) is available from respective COVID page for each country, and would not be very difficult to include. This information would very helpful to show which countries are struggling to contain the epidemic. If you are concerned about table width, you could add a line wrap or abbreviation for "St Vincent and the Grenadines". scottt (talk) 20:14, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
No more new columns in this template. We could make a larger table for other uses I guess but that is not this one. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:39, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

New column in "2019–20 coronavirus pandemic by country and territory" table?

Moved from Talk:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic § New column in "2019–20 coronavirus pandemic by country and territory" table?
 – MarioGom (talk) 10:21, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Is it possible to update the table "2019–20 coronavirus pandemic by country and territory" with a new column like "confirmed deaths per million people". This will give a more comparable view of how effected the different contries are.

I know the map is showing this, but i would like to se the actual numbers and the possibility to sort. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.186.121.223 (talk) 10:16, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

The problem is twofold, first it makes the table wider, and not display properly on phones, and secondly it is too hard for editors to calculate the values. They could just copy the worldometer figures, but the definition of the country, numbers and population would have to match. So overall I am not in support of the column. It was added once before, but did not survive long. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:46, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
The sandbox template would be able to support this, by automating the calculation. All the best: Rich Farmbrough (the apparently calm and reasonable) 11:07, 23 March 2020 (UTC).
Will that extend the template? In which case I propose a Wikipedia page doing exactly that. jax (talk) 06:51, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
Where could we test the sandbox template? Will it use kind of {{formatnum:+{{#expr: (175 / 160 - 1 ) * 100 round 0 }}%}} and Template:Vert_header?--😷 garyCZEk 📢 ✍ ｛🧒👧👦🚲💻🚗🍣｝ 11:58, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
And could this template make it only be sent/viewed on a wide screen that can handle it? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:36, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
We could have a narrow base version. And than we could have a button people could click to see a wide version with more details. Is this possible to make? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:42, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Unnecessary information for Switzerland

I think we should remove the remark for Switzerland, that "there are more positive than confirmed cases", because this is true for all countries. It gives the impression that Switzerland does not test enough but Switzerland has one of the highest testing rates, while other countries like Ukraine or Hungary have a very low testing rate. Every country has unreported cases, some cases have no symptoms, some cases have them but get not tested. Tensorproduct (talk) 12:59, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

@Tensorproduct: Good point and  Done. Zarex (talk) 05:55, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Åland has now 5 cases

As written in this article, Åland now has 5 confirmed cases and not 2: source. Raphaël Dunant (talk) 08:20, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 March 2020

Add a column for active cases to the "2019-20 coronavirus pandemic by country and territory" table where active cases is equal to cases - (deaths + recov) Jasoncross1357 (talk) 07:32, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

earlier we decided not to do this as it fattened up the table. The discussions will be somewhere in the archive. Another reason is that it is harder to maintain. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:19, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 March 2020

There is no Republic of Northern Cyprus. This is not a country or an entity recognized by the UN. It should be noted as such on the list. 89.210.97.144 (talk) 02:20, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Taiwan and Kosovo are also not recognised by the UN but there are still included. There was previously a proposal to standardise this however there has been no discussion since. If you want 'countries' with limited recognition removed and included with their UN Member States, make a proposal. JMonkey2006 (talk) 07:42, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
Northern Cyprus was discussed before and decided to have it included as no one else counts their statistics. We have not decided to follow politics of recognition by other countries or agencies, and instead go by "territories" that report stats separately. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:22, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Palestine ?

Up until a few hours ago, Palestine was included on the table with 60 cases, 1 death and 16 recoveries. Now it is missing. The data are not included in Israel. There is no mention in the footnotes. There is no comment in the Talk page. Has a decision been taken? Or has a vandal been at work? Ptilinopus (talk) 11:25, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Ptilinopus: It is present now. --MarioGom (talk) 11:30, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
Graeme Bartlett updated it recently, so its position in the table has changed. --MarioGom (talk) 11:31, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Locations that may require an update (26 March)

The following locations have lower cases than Worldometer and may require an update. Please, do not update directly. Look for a reliable source to use and verify that all figures are correct:

Outdated report --MarioGom (talk) 11:35, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Albania 146 -> 174
  • Belize 1 -> 2
  • Bosnia and Herzegovina 176 -> 185
  • Brunei 109 -> 114
  • Bulgaria 242 -> 243
  • Canada 3331 -> 3409 (invalid: includes presumptive cases)
  • Finland 880 -> 915
  • Gabon 6 -> 7
  • India 649 -> 693
  • Isle of Man 23 -> 25
  • Jamaica 25 -> 26
  • Japan 1291 -> 1307 (updated from latest Japanese government report, confirmed cases does not seem to match Worldometer though)
  • Kazakhstan 97 -> 109
  • Mauritania 2 -> 3
  • Mauritius 48 -> 52
  • Monaco 27 -> 31
  • Mongolia 10 -> 11
  • Montenegro 53 -> 67
  • Norway 3185 -> 3191
  • Oman 99 -> 109
  • Senegal 99 -> 105
  • Slovakia 216 -> 226
  • Somalia 1 -> 2
  • State of Palestine 73 -> 84
  • Tanzania 12 -> 13

Best, --MarioGom (talk) 10:32, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Updated report:

Outdated report
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Albania 146 -> 174
  • Bahrain 419 -> 457
  • Belize 1 -> 2
  • Brazil 2554 -> 2563
  • Brunei 109 -> 114
  • Bulgaria 242 -> 243
  • Canada 3331 -> 3409 (invalid: includes presumptive cases)
  • Finland 880 -> 915
  • Gabon 6 -> 7
  • Ghana 68 -> 132
  • India 649 -> 694 We don't trust WOMC on India
  • Isle of Man 23 -> 25
  • Japan 1292 -> 1307 (apparently invalid: we have figures from latest Japanese government report)
  • Kazakhstan 97 -> 109
  • Lebanon 333 -> 368
  • Mauritania 2 -> 3
  • Mauritius 48 -> 52
  • Oman 99 -> 109
  • Romania 906 -> 1029
  • Senegal 99 -> 105
  • Slovakia 216 -> 226
  • Somalia 1 -> 2
  • Vietnam 148 -> 153

Best, --MarioGom (talk) 11:35, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

I've got an idea. I'm seeing a lot of separate sections about changing data for countries. How about we have one section with the list of countries that everyone can updaye and regularly check? JMonkey2006 (talk) 11:39, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
JMonkey2006: I'm not sure less experienced editors will realize they can update such list, since they are redirected to create a new section when they try to edit the article. --MarioGom (talk) 16:23, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

San Marino edit request on 26 March 2020

Please update San Marino data as follows: confirmed: 218, recovered: 5 according to official source: http://www.iss.sm/on-line/home/aggiornamenti-coronavirus/articolo49014173.html 😷 garyCZEk 📢 ✍ ｛🧒👧👦🚲💻🚗🍣｝ 14:05, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Updated, thanks. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:32, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 March 2020

Total number of cases in Luxembourg raises to 1453 (+120 ) and deaths to 9 (+1) https://today.rtl.lu/news/luxembourg/a/1490704.html Wimmiden (talk) 16:43, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Updated, thanks. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:34, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Notice : Global CCF

The total global CCF is incorrect, please correct accordingly. https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 BlackSun2104 (talk) 22:43, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

United States Stats

For the United States row of this template, it is using two non-official trackers to determine the figures. Both of these trackers do not match what the CDC nor what Johns Hopkins University are reporting. Why are we even using these unofficial numbers when other Countries have the official trackers in their rows? — Mr Xaero ☎️ 02:18, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

The original lead editors of this article felt that it was better to have numbers that are updated more often. Personally, I prefer 1Point3Acres over WorldOMeter as there are either official sources from state governments or from reliable sources such as ABC News.
In fact, even the CDC has chose to use 1Point3Acres to update their counts on their COVID-19 page. (https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en/, there should be a little orange box where the text changes every 2 seconds, you'll eventually see it.)
If we had cited the CDC's figures from the start, that would be redundant by now.
Hope that address your concerns, Mr Xaero. Cheers.
RayDeeUx (talk) 02:27, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Required updates for Germany

Germany's CCF had shot up to 41,414, please correct and amend accordingly.119.74.163.85 (talk) 15:44, 26 March 2020 (UTC)https://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/corona-virus-karte-infektionen-deutschland-weltweit/

I think we have gone past that figure. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 03:20, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Notice : Spain's CCF

Spain's CCF has risen again to 57,786, please correct accordingly. https://www.rtve.es/noticias/20200326/mapa-del-coronavirus-espana/2004681.shtml BlackSun2104 (talk) 23:59, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Updated , thank you. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 03:23, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 March 2020

Panama has 674 confirmed cases and 9 deaths. Source: https://www.telemetro.com/nacionales/2020/03/26/panama-registra-9-fallecidos-por-covid-19-y-acumula-674-casos-confirmados/2719716.html 190.219.162.190 (talk) 23:55, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks! --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 05:42, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 March 2020

Honduras has 68 cases of coronavirus plus one of them died today. so 67 active and 1 dead https://www.laprensa.hn/especiales/coronavirus/1367517-410/honduras-registra-16-nuevos-casos-coronavirus-aumentan-67-contagiados Allancalderini12 (talk) 00:50, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks! --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 05:43, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Cases, Deaths, and Recoveries

Moved from Talk:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic § Cases, Deaths, and Recoveries
 – — RealFakeKimT 15:41, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

In the chart, which lists all countries and their number of Cases, Deaths and Recoveries. Should we add a 4th column which shows Active Cases. I am assuming Cases just mean a historic count of all the people who were infected at one point. Should we not have a column which shows Active Cases which would be (Cases - Recoveries). That way we readers can know how many current cases there are in each country. Mercenary2k (talk) 15:12, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

It's useless, it would be much much better to educate people on the inaccuracy of those models. You need to know the amount of total tests, the population, the condition in which the tests are made and then a solid base in calculus to be able to come with any sens of what is happening with those numbers. If the reader can't mentally subtract the columns, there is nothing he can do with that information. Iluvalar (talk) 17:13, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
Operating with the recoveries column is quite problematic. Reliable statistics of recoveries are very uncommon. Actually, for most countries our current recoveries column represents just anecdotal cases found in isolated local press reports. I'm actually thinking about proposing to blank the recoveries column for most countries. --MarioGom (talk) 17:41, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
An earlier edit request already asked this and Graeme Bartlett responded with earlier we decided not to do this as it fattened up the table. The discussions will be somewhere in the archive. Another reason is that it is harder to maintain. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 05:47, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 March 2020

Change the reference link for Australian cases to the ABC's running count that is updated regularly and is solely for case numbers.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-17/coronavirus-cases-data-reveals-how-covid-19-spreads-in-australia/12060704 JMonkey2006 (talk) 06:19, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks! —SquidHomme (talk) 08:01, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 March 2020

Please update San Marino counts as follows: recovered: 6 confirmed: 223 official source: http://www.iss.sm/on-line/home/articolo49014186.html 😷 garyCZEk 📢 ✍ ｛🧒👧👦🚲💻🚗🍣｝ 13:44, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done. RayDeeUx (talk) 14:25, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 March 2020

Singapore's cases should stand at 732 as at 27 March 2020 nighttime, and recovery cases at 183. Please see: https://www.moh.gov.sg/docs/librariesprovider5/pressroom/press-releases/annex---summary-of-confirmed-cases-(27-march-2020).pdf 111.65.36.29 (talk) 14:13, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

 Already done, but I added the PDF source just in case. Cheers. RayDeeUx (talk) 14:25, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Hi MarioGom. I advise on the column as it provides more clarity. Thank you and hope you are well Hari147 (talk) 15:16, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Serial numbers are required to know the standing of each country wrt infections SAI SUMANTH 20:37, 27 March 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saisumanth (talk • contribs)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 March 2020

I would like to update the total number of cases for Canada, the current number is using the wrong number from the current source.

The number should be changed to 4043, the previous 3763 number includes recovered people, which is not how it is recorded for all the other countries.

source: https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/health/coronavirus/tracking-every-case-of-covid-19-in-canada-1.4852102 YipB (talk) 14:37, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

 Partly done. The lead editors of the template do not wish to include presumptive cases, so I updated the value to 4030. Cheers. RayDeeUx (talk) 15:01, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 March 2020

Add this to Spain (similar to Italy).

[a]

Paolotacchi (talk) 14:54, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks for giving me the source text to copy, it makes my job easier! RayDeeUx (talk) 15:08, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 March 2020

Change UK cases to 14,579 81.174.128.143 (talk) 15:32, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done, it is unclear if the number you're citing is for mainland UK or if it includes all overseas territories. RayDeeUx (talk) 17:48, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Turkey numbers on 27 March 2020

Turkey's coronavirus death toll rises to 92, the total number of patients 5,698, 42 patients have recovered so far. https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkeys-coronavirus-death-toll-rises-to-92-with-2-069-new-cases-153353 - Caner Guclu talk 17:10, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks for the source, and cheers! RayDeeUx (talk) 17:46, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 March 2020

Update UK cases, deaths recoveries etc. in the table of the pandemic numbers by country. 150.143.56.191 (talk) 17:13, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done, it is unclear if the number you're citing is for mainland UK or if it includes all overseas territories. RayDeeUx (talk) 17:49, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

UK : Slow to update

UK's CCF has remain unchanged for the last 24hrs, can anyone please amend asap. BlackSun2104 (talk) 20:57, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

BlackSun2104, please be patient and use {{edit extended-protected}} templates. Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 04:27, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 March 2020

Panama has 786 confirmed cases and 14 deaths. Source: https://www.tvn-2.com/nacionales/Van-pacientes-COVID-19-Panama_0_5542695764.html 190.219.162.190 (talk) 23:33, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Updated, thank you. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:46, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 March 2020

The cases for New Zealand are as follows

  • 451 cases (from 368)
  • 0 deaths (from 0)
  • 50 recovered (from 37)

Reference: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/412818/coronavirus-83-new-cases-in-new-zealand-two-patients-in-intensive-care Maticulous (talk) 00:57, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks for the source and breakdown! RayDeeUx (talk) 01:27, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 March 2020

Honduras has confirmed 27 new cases for a total of 95. 1 of them is dead and 4 are in ICU. https://www.laprensa.hn/especiales/coronavirus/1367729-410/reportan-27-nuevos-casos-covid-19-honduras-95-contagiados-total Allancalderini12 (talk) 01:19, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done. RayDeeUx (talk) 01:25, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Locations that may require an update (27 March)

The following locations have lower cases than Worldometer and may require an update. Please, do not update directly. Look for a reliable source to use and verify that all figures are correct:

Oudated report.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Afghanistan 84 -> 94
  • Angola 3 -> 4
  • Antigua and Barbuda 3 -> 7
  • Australia 2805 -> 3166
  • Austria 6917 -> 7129
  • Barbados 18 -> 24
  • Bhutan 2 -> 3
  • Bosnia and Herzegovina 191 -> 192
  • Bulgaria 264 -> 276
  • Cameroon 75 -> 88
  • Cape Verde 4 -> 5
  • Estonia 538 -> 575
  • Ethiopia 12 -> 16
  • Germany 44439 -> 47278
  • Grenada 1 -> 7
  • Guatemala 24 -> 25
  • Hong Kong 453 -> 518
  • India 724 -> 753
  • Isle of Man 23 -> 26
  • Kazakhstan 112 -> 125
  • Kyrgyzstan 44 -> 58
  • Latvia 244 -> 280
  • Liechtenstein 53 -> 56
  • Macau 31 -> 33
  • Mauritius 52 -> 81
  • Monaco 31 -> 33
  • Montenegro 67 -> 70
  • Myanmar 3 -> 5
  • Oman 99 -> 109
  • Somalia 2 -> 3
  • State of Palestine 84 -> 86
  • Togo 23 -> 24
  • Trinidad and Tobago 60 -> 65
  • Uganda 14 -> 18
  • Uruguay 217 -> 238
  • Venezuela 106 -> 107
  • Zimbabwe 3 -> 5

Best, --MarioGom (talk) 09:19, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Yet another round:

Oudated report.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Antigua and Barbuda 3 -> 7
  • Bosnia and Herzegovina 226 -> 230
  • Brazil 2985 -> 2988
  • Cambodia 98 -> 99
  • Cameroon 75 -> 88
  • Cape Verde 4 -> 5
  • Finland 958 -> 1038
  • Ghana 132 -> 136
  • Iceland 802 -> 890
  • India 743 -> 860
  • Iraq 382 -> 458
  • Kazakhstan 125 -> 135
  • Macau 33 -> 34
  • Maldives 13 -> 14
  • Malta 134 -> 139
  • Mauritius 52 -> 81
  • Poland 1244 -> 1289
  • Saudi Arabia 1012 -> 1104
  • Slovakia 226 -> 269
  • Slovenia 562 -> 632
  • Ukraine 218 -> 226

Best, --MarioGom (talk) 13:22, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Spain and Italy notes. Add to Spain

There is a note for Italy explaining that the country is testing only at-risk people since 27th February. Actually in Spain, due to low resource, it has been quite the same from the beginning. I think we should add a note, with this source, for example. Paolotacchi (talk) 08:52, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Spain Is actually not being able to test all the Citizens with cases. the lack of test units, is one of the reasons. Also the fact that 650.000 tests bought from china are not working properly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alnavasa (talk • contribs) 10:58, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Spain : slow to update

Spain's figure should have been altered by now. BlackSun2104 (talk) 03:07, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

We're all volunteers, here, BlackSun2104. There is no bot that updates counts every hour, it requires an editor and there is plenty of work to go around. Liz Read! Talk! 03:12, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
I have been doing gardening, and will do some more, rather than responding to requests here, so some more timely updates will depend on someone else doing them. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 03:25, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
I too, have remote learning work to handle. Handling edit requests 24/7 is simply not my cup of tea. RayDeeUx (talk) 14:15, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Urgent update required for UK

UK's CCF is now 14,453, please update accordingly. https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/f94c3c90da5b4e9f9a0b19484dd4bb14

Not done as the more reliable source for UK has higher numbers. Please sign your comments in the future as well. Cheers. RayDeeUx RayDeeUx (talk) 17:38, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

UK's CCF remain unchanged

UK's CCF remain unchanged, is there any explanation for that? https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/f94c3c90da5b4e9f9a0b19484dd4bb14 119.74.163.85 (talk) 18:31, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

It's unclear if the figures include all BOTs (British Overseas Territories) or if it only covers the UK. Let me ping the more experienced editors of the template and ask.
To MarioGom Graeme Bartlett: Apologies for the ping, but what should be the procedure here? Thanks in advance. RayDeeUx (talk) 18:40, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
Until the discussion is closed about whether UK includes BOTs, or if it is closed as yes, then I am not updating UK, as I do not know how to source the information or calculate the figure. Anyone else that does know how, is welcome to do the update. Perhaps we could use a sum template with comments that describe the sources that supply the figures, then we could have confidence we are getting a correct result. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:24, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
OK I have updated as someone put in a sum template. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:43, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Regards about UK figures.

UK figures should be 14,743, not more than 11,000, that includes OTs, just copy the figure and paste it. The clue is already in JHU website. https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 BlackSun2104 (talk) 23:23, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Here's why, BlackSun2104: we need to break it down between mainland UK and the OTs. RayDeeUx (talk) 01:19, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

United Arab Emirates cases

Moved from Talk:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic § Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2020
 – — RealFakeKimT 06:52, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2020

Change the current amount of coronavirus cases for the United Arab Emirates from 333 to 405, and recovery from 52 to 55.
(Here is the source.)


Global amount of cases would be from 577,660 to 577,732. Global recovery is from 130,670 to 130,673.
Thank you,

Amy

AmyCatherine2014 (talk) 18:24, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Amy, someone has already updated it. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 07:58, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Locations that may require an update (28 March)

The following locations have lower cases than Worldometer and may require an update. Please, do not update directly. Look for a reliable source to use and verify that all figures are correct:

Outdated report
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Antigua and Barbuda 3 -> 7
  • Armenia 329 -> 372
  • Australia 3570 -> 3635
  • Bulgaria 293 -> 313
  • Cape Verde 4 -> 5
  • Finland 1041 -> 1163
  • Hong Kong 518 -> 519
  • India 873 -> 906
  • Israel 3035 -> 3460
  • Lithuania 345 -> 358
  • Latvia 280 -> 305[1]
  • Maldives 13 -> 16
  • Mauritania 3 -> 5
  • Montenegro 70 -> 82
  • Nicaragua 2 -> 4
  • Oman 131 -> 152

Best, --MarioGom (talk) 08:04, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

May I also add Kosovo, which went up to 88 cases, remained at 1 death and also reported 1 recovery. Per [7] --Ratherous (talk) 08:54, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
Ratherous: I have updated it. Thank you! --MarioGom (talk) 09:58, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ @SPKCentrs (28 March 2020). "Latvijā kopā veikti 12748 izmeklējumi, infekcija apstiprināta 305 personām. 21 pacients stacionēts (http://t.sk. 18 ar vieglu/vidēju slimības gaitu, 3 ar smagu slimības gaitu)" (Tweet) – via Twitter.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 March 2020

This is Jayanika Chandrapriya from Sri Lanka. I am working as a Front End developer for a multinational SaaS company.

I am a keen on this Covid-19 outbreak since it's beginning. Please let me update my country's information in this table. I hereby confirm that neither of my updates will be unconfirmed by the government news authorities. Jayanika1997 (talk) 15:05, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Jayanika1997:  Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. If they're not going to be unconfirmed, just provide us with the news sources and we'll get change it when it happens. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 15:35, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

UK's CCF as of 28th March

According to official sources, UK's CCF as of 28th March is 17,089 and death toll is 1,019 respectively, please update accordingly. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public BlackSun2104 (talk) 15:42, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 March 2020

2 more deaths in Honduras for a total 3.

https://www.diez.hn/coronavirus/1367912-441/dos-muertos-coronavirus-honduras-pacientes-villanueva-suman-tres-covid-honduras Allancalderini12 (talk) 18:55, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Allancalderini12:  Partly done. Updated. 2 deaths are confirmed in Cortés ([8]). The third death is not confirmed yet (https://www.diez.hn/coronavirus/1367912-441/dos-muertos-coronavirus-honduras-pacientes-villanueva-suman-tres-covid-honduras).

Turkey numbers on 28 March 2020

The total number of cases: 7402, Death toll : 108, Recovered: 70 [1] ---Caner Guclu talk 17:18, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

@Canerguclu:  Already done. Thanks for the reference! --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 23:21, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "1,704 new cases confirmed in Turkey, death toll hits 108". Hurriyet Daily News. Retrieved 28 March 2020.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 March 2020

Panama has 901 confirmed cases, 17 deaths and 4 recovered. Source: https://www.tvn-2.com/nacionales/Coronavirus-en-Panama-casos-COVID-19-salud-Ministerio-Salud-Minsa_0_5543445653.html 190.219.162.190 (talk) 00:12, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done. --MarioGom (talk) 00:48, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Sorting

Sort by deaths by default

The number of confirmed cases is a misleading metric for comparison among nations, due to the hugely varying scale of testing taking place. For example, South Korea does broad testing and has probably identified most cases, while Italy says the true number of cases is likely to be 10x what has been identified. Countries are increasingly limiting testing to severe cases or high-risk individuals when they become overwhelmed by the speed of the spread. I suggest that it would make more sense to switch the default sort to deaths, since that is the more reliable number for comparing the severity of the outbreak among nations. 92.51.253.124 (talk) 01:11, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Sorting by number of cases is perfectly fine. You can sort by deaths for yourself if you want already. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:35, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
I concur. United States Man (talk) 03:39, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
One can change it, but the vast majority will never think to. That's why there is a benefit in choosing the best initial setting. Clearly I know I can change it. That's why I said "by default". Announcing it to be "perfectly fine" does not change the fact that it is not "perfectly fine" – as I explained, it's a misleading and unreliable metric. Thank you for serving no purpose. Goodbye. 92.51.253.124 (talk) 13:35, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Support Sorting by deaths by default. Deaths can be less easily hidden than confirmed cases. That said nobody trusts the mainland chinese figures or the iranian ones. The French have admitted that only those dying in hospitals have so far been counted. Those dying elsewhere including in maisons de retraite are not counted and the Germans don't test the deceased. As long as the WHO does not impose uniformity in counting, these figures are less and less trustworthy and are meaningless when it comes to making comparisons Manish2542 (talk) 17:53, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Support: agreed with the above user. Deaths are the most reliable and representative measurement of the pandemic in a country; how can we order it by confirmed cases when there exist vastly different testing policies such as Germany, who tested far more, compared to the UK who have a more stringent testing system? —Formulaonewiki 21:34, 27 March 2020 (UTC)


At this stage, table should be sorted by total deaths

In many countries in Europe, such as Italy, Spain and France, healthcare systems are totally overwhelmed by cases and forced to limit testing only to the most serious cases and the most exposed workers [9]. On the contrary, countries such as South Korea or Germany have tested at a very large scale, even people with very mild symptoms or no at all [10].

This generates a significant bias on the "confirmed cases" metric, as obviously you need to be tested in order to be confirmed, which makes it totally fallacious to judge the maturity of the epidemics in each country. Unfortunately at this stage, and considering the proportions of the crisis, the number of deaths seem to be a much more accurate metric, despite having its own bias as well. Hence why it would make a lot more sense to me to use it as the default value to rank countries. Metropolitan (talk) 20:38, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Metropolitan: While I agree that deaths can be a better indicator of the severity of the epidemic in a country, note that there are also big surprises there. For example, countries doing or not doing posmortem tests extensively ([11]), criteria for death cause reporting, etc. --MarioGom (talk) 20:51, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
MarioGom: Indeed, that's what I meant in saying that reported deaths had its own bias as well. That doesn't change the fact that it gives a much better idea about the maturity of the crisis in each country. This is an unknown virus, no country keeps for itself a secret cure. Metropolitan (talk) 20:58, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
Metropolitan: This discussions comes up almost everyday, so I have opened a request for comments: #RfC: Default sort column. --MarioGom (talk) 11:17, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

India numbers and source mismatch

Moved from Talk:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic § India numbers and source mismatch
 – — RealFakeKimT 20:20, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

The Indian numbers are sourced from the ministry of health and family welfare (MoHFW) but the never match the MoHFW. Either we should change the source or be using their numbers. I see on indian websites that this is a consistent problem. Like on covidindia.org , they report non govt sources and MoHFW cases separately. Also I think the numbers are possible wrong. It is showing 24 deaths. When I can't find a news source more than 20 Gegu0284 (talk) 18:42, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Gegu0284: The Hindu is reporting 24 deaths ([12]). --MarioGom (talk)
MarioGom Sure that's ok, must have missed it; however, the source on the right column is MOHFW. So we still need to be updating another source if we are using a different one Gegu0284 (talk) 05:04, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 March 2020

Recover] rate % column ! 178.148.158.198 (talk) 07:49, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done. Please, see #More columns. --MarioGom (talk) 09:35, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Kurdistan

In the same category of limited recognition or unlimited unrecognition there is Kurdistan. It has 128 cases.[13] Does anyone know if its cases are included in other countries' tallies? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:52, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Graeme Bartlett: Note that the source is the Kurdistan Regional Government and apparently it refers to the Kurdistan Region in Iraq. We should find out if these cases are accounted for in our Iraq figures. --MarioGom (talk) 13:34, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
Official Iraq figures include the Kurdistan Region ([14]). I think we should keep it this way. The same as Iraq official sources, the Johns Hopkins University and the World Health Organization. --MarioGom (talk) 13:40, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 March 2020

Please update the row for Syria to reflect the recent death case. Reference: https://sana.sy/en/?p=189095 tGDA (talk) 15:07, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

 Already done when I checked. Thanks for the reminder though! RayDeeUx (talk) 16:01, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 March 2020

Please update San Marino counts according to official source at http://www.iss.sm/on-line/home/aggiornamenti-coronavirus/articolo49014189.html as follows: 229 confirmed, 24 deaths, 12 recovered. 😷 garyCZEk 📢 ✍ ｛🧒👧👦🚲💻🚗🍣｝ 14:32, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks for the source and breakdown! RayDeeUx (talk) 16:03, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Locations that may require an update (29 March)

The following locations have lower cases than Worldometer and may require an update. Please, do not update directly. Look for a reliable source to use and verify that all figures are correct:

Outdated report
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Cyprus 162 -> 214
  • Dominican Republic 719 -> 859
  • Finland 1218 -> 1240
  • Georgia (country) 90 -> 91
  • Greece 1061 -> 1156
  • Haiti 8 -> 15
  • Iceland 963 -> 1020
  • Jamaica 30 -> 32
  • Moldova 231 -> 263
  • State of Palestine 106 -> 108

Best, --MarioGom (talk) 16:09, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Northern Marianas

I notice that in the 2020 Coronavirus Pandemic in the United States, Section Statistics, Table "Current Number of Non-Repatriated Cases by State", that there are now 2 cases in the Northern Mariana Islands, with sources. They are already included in the US total, and should be noted in the US territories note below the table (at least until the RfC is finalised). Ptilinopus (talk) 13:06, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello Ptilinopus, I have added that footnote now. I'm just waiting for the wikilink to be established. Thanks for the reminder! Cheers. RayDeeUx (talk) 17:13, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Turkey numbers on 29 March 2020

Confirmed cases: 9217[1], Death: 131[1], Recovered: 105[2] ---Caner Guclu talk 16:31, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

@Canerguclu:  Already done when I checked. Thanks! --17jiangz1 (talk) 19:11, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ a b "Turkey reports 1,815 additional coronavirus cases, 23 new deaths". Hurriyet Daily News. Retrieved 29 March 2020.
  2. ^ "Türkiye'de Koronavirüs nedeniyle hayatını kaybedenlerin sayısı 131'e; vaka sayısı 9 bin 217'ye yükseldi!". T24. Retrieved 29 March 2020.

Gambia --> The Gambia

Gambia should have been named The Gambia — Preceding unsigned comment added by JecoGS (talk • contribs) 17:48, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

@JecoGS:  Not done as countries are referred by common/short recognizable and sortable names (e.g. The Bahamas is also referred to as "Bahamas").--17jiangz1 (talk) 19:16, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 March 2020

Colombia's National Ministry of Health just reported 702 total cases and 10 deaths. Please update. Source: https://twitter.com/MinSaludCol/status/1244342063791050760 Juan C. S. H. (talk) 19:29, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

@Juan C. S. H.:  Done. Thanks! --17jiangz1 (talk) 19:45, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

China footnote

"Includes clinically diagnosed cases and deaths from 12 February 2020 and onwards in the province of Hubei."

The WHO reported in Situation Report 24[1] Chinese reporting "clinically diagnosed cases in addition to laboratory-confirmed cases" in relation to Hubei, as per the quoted footnote. However in Situation Report 31,[2] WHO cited China's revised guidance[3] on case classification that it was going back to only laboratory confirmed cases. As such, given the table only shows the latest cumulative figures the footnote should be removed. -- KTC (talk) 21:43, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200213-sitrep-24-covid-19.pdf
  2. ^ https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200220-sitrep-31-covid-19.pdf
  3. ^ http://www.chinacdc.cn/jkzt/crb/zl/szkb_11803/jszl_11815/202002/W020200219516971614358.pdf

BiH live updates...

... are available here. --5.43.82.5 (talk) 22:36, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

More columns

Number of test

I think the number of test performed should be included in the table. This will give us a better understanding of the scenario. A country that has tested very few and got lower number infected persons can't be equally measured with a country that has tested in wide number and got lower number. --Rossi101 (talk) 09:24, 27 March 2020 (UTC)Rossi101

Rossi101: Reliable sources for number of tests is not available for most countries. You can find it on per-country articles in some cases. There is also an informal consensus of not adding more columns to this table. --MarioGom (talk) 09:49, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
I agree with Rossi101. Without that, the table doesn't make any sense. Paolotacchi (talk) 13:30, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
No. We have a different table for that. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:06, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Add remaining cases

In light of providing more information to readers as well as a form of encouragement, might I suggest for an extra column to be added for the remaining cases? I had added it already but it was abruptly deleted by a user. Thanks Hari147 (talk) 15:15, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello Hari147, please see your talk page for more information. Thanks. RayDeeUx (talk) 15:19, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
Hari147: See #New columns. Adding new columns here requires reaching consensus first. Please, do not add it again unless there is a consensus for it. Given the high volume of daily edits, this kind of change is highly disruptive. Thank you. --MarioGom (talk) 15:23, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
No more columns. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:08, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

New columns

Hari147: Please, do not add new columns ([15]) without discussion. Current informal consensus is not adding any new column. --MarioGom (talk) 15:10, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Agree. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:04, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Serial numbers or ranking of the infected countries

Please add serial numbers or ranking to the table depicting the number of Covid-19 cases country wise SAI SUMANTH 20:36, 27 March 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saisumanth (talk • contribs)

The data is already sortable by country name, number of cases, number of deaths, number of recoveries. Adding a pointless number that would entail serious editing of the template every time a country's data was updated, and exceeded some previously higher 'rated' country would be a serious inconvenience. Fanx (talk) 01:49, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
No new columns Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:11, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Please break it down according to each cases' respective territory (ie mainland UK, any of the BOTs, etc.) Cheers. RayDeeUx (talk) 23:40, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

information about recovered people

Good job.

I would like to suggest to show information about the number of recovered people. Alternatively, to provide information on total cases (sickness + recovery + death)

Chris 77.114.138.70 (talk) 16:14, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

The fourth column (Recov.) is the number of recovered people. The second column (Cases) is the total number of cases, including recovered and dead. --MarioGom (talk) 16:33, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 March 2020

Panama has 989 confirmed cases and 24 deaths. Source: https://www.laestrella.com.pa/nacional/200329/panama-suma-24-muertos-989-contagiados-covid-19 190.219.162.190 (talk) 23:14, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Updated, thank you. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:00, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 March 2020

Honduras has confirmed the third death, and has confirm 29 new cases for a total of 139. https://www.laprensa.hn/honduras/1368232-410/honduras-noticias-coronavirus-salud-contagios-muertos Allancalderini12 (talk) 03:03, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Updated, thank you. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 03:58, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

U.K. inaccuracy

The UK entry in the table specifies in the notes below, that it includes the numbers for the territories listed in the notes. It does not. The current figure of 19,522 cases is specified in 2020 coronavirus pandemic in the United Kingdom in section Timeline, Graph "COVID-19 cases in the United Kingdom" as "Figures do not include the cases from British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies.". Thus all the data for territories listed in the notes must either be added to this figure, or listed separately in the table. Ptilinopus (talk) 00:57, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

I have updated the number in the sum template, hopefully it is good. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:10, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

New RfC on countries/dependencies

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
There is a strong consensus on splitting all autonomous territories and dependencies with some disagreements on the criteria to be followed. Some territories were explicitly agreed to be split: Availability of reliable sources (WP:RS) is a prerequisite for any split. Reliable sources are believed to exist for all territories that were explicitly agreed. --MarioGom (talk) 08:11, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

This is an ongoing issue, thus I am re-proposing this RfC. We need to settle the countries/territories/dependencies issue settled once for all.
Are territories and dependencies (full list from List of countries and dependencies by population: Hong Kong, Puerto Rico, Macau, New Caledonia, French Polynesia, Guam, Curaçao, Aruba, Jersey, U.S. Virgin Islands, Isle of Man, Cayman Islands, Bermuda, Guernsey, American Samoa, Greenland, Northern Mariana Islands, Faroe Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands, Sint Maarten, Saint Martin, Gibraltar, British Virgin Islands, Åland Islands, Cook Islands, Anguilla, Wallis and Futuna, Saint Barthélemy, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha, Montserrat, Falkland Islands, Christmas Island, Norfolk Island, Niue, Tokelau, Cocos (Keeling) Islands, Pitcairn Islands) as well as scarcely or not universally recognised countries (Taiwan, Kosovo, Western Sahara, Transnistria, Northern Cyprus, Abkhazia, Artsakh, South Ossetia) to be included in their respective countries' counts or not?
As of now, two dependent territories (namely Hong Kong and Macau, so that China is referred to as "China (mainland)"), along with scarcely or not universally recognised countries are listes separately from their respective countries, others are not. The count is made more complicate by the fact that most sources (notably including Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases by Johns Hopkins CSSE and Coronavirus Update - Worldometer) list all dependencies separately.
Please, have your say! --Checco (talk) 09:58, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

  • My guess is that we should be completely consistent with List of countries and dependencies by population and almost literally all lists and templates featuring countries. In en.Wikipedia, it is customary to list and/or consider territories and/or dependencies separately from respective countries for statistical purposes. Dependent territories are never included in their respective countries' counts. Why should this template be the exception? --Checco (talk) 10:00, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
    Ps: In no list and template in which Hong Kong and Macau are listed separately China is referred to as "mainland China".
  • I support listing autonomous territories and dependencies separately as you propose. At least to the extent that is possible according to reliable sources. Note that Taiwan is widely recognized and Kosovo is often listed separately for statistical purposes even by countries and entities that do not recognize it. --MarioGom (talk) 10:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
  • I support any decision as long as the final outcome is universal and consistent, instead like how some cutrent editor are insisting which split a few dependencies but incorporating the rest of them. I will only take a stance when there is a required vote to decide things. Pktlaurence (talk) 10:39, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
Agree. In this respect, please do not replace "China (mainland)" with "Mainland China". That is our current consensus, so please stick to it. I would also change that (simply "China", consistently with most lists and templates in en.Wikipedia), but I have to seek consensus first, too. --Checco (talk) 10:43, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
If you "will only take a stance where there is a required to do decide things (sic)", then refrain from removing the Crown Dependencies until this RfC has reached a consensus. Currently, discussions regarding the CDs have concluded separation as noted in the editing notice. —Formulaonewiki 10:55, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
If asking for stances I would be slightly in favour for splitting, as it's more geo-biographically accurate. A French guianan is more likely to be infected by a Brazilian than a Frenchman. I have to state, though, incorporating CDs doesn't mean ' wrongly describing Crown Dependencies as part of the UK', it simply means all those CD archipelagos are fully in UK responsibility.
I agree with Pktlaurence. Any option is fine, but it must be consistent with every case. There should be no picking and choosing. If we do decide to separate the territories, we should also standardise the naming of the 'mainland'. Are we going to write China (mainland) & Denmark (mainland), or Mainland China & Mainland Denmark, or simply China and Denmark (preferably with notes)? JMonkey2006 (talk) 22:14, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
For the china issue, I'm supportive towards both options of mainland China and china, but adding brackets are just obnoxious. P.s. the term 'mainland china' is actually the norm in Chinese Wikipedia, which I am one out of the many main contributors.
There is a third issue though, for some nations with limited recognition, we may not treat them as separate entities. And as for 'some' I specifically means those SLRs who're only recognised by one single nation, which those cases are generally deemed as cases of puppet states. Notable examples include nagorno-karabakh, Abkhazia, south Ossetia, transnistria, Lugansk, Donetsk, and north Cyprus, etc.
Best regards, Pktlaurence (talk) 11:11, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
I just made a typo so you may check out for the latest update. Besides, i thought i already stated black and white that my stance is universal consistency, and I'm doing the incorporation in accordance to this very principle, since currently most dependencies are incorporated. As for the case, 'these are *not* part of the UK' indeeed, but adding them to the UK total is definitely not misleading, it just simply means they're UK responsibilities. Black and white, that simple, ain't no rocket science. Hope you're not using Abkhazia-esque sock puppets.
Best regards, Pktlaurence (talk) 11:23, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
Pktlaurence, adding GG, JE and IM to the UK is misleading. The UK is not treating sick people on those islands, the health care systems on each island are. doktorb wordsdeeds 11:35, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
@Doktorbuk: Yes, UK isn't treating islander patients in Britannia mainland, but UK is ultimately and technically responsible for the islands' healthcare systems, which in turn treats islander patients on the islands themselves. All those CD islandic healthcare systems are still in the responsibility of the UK' government technically and ultimately, therefore it's definitely not misleading to put patients under UK responsibility into the UK Numbers. Best regards, Pktlaurence (talk) 15:30, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
That is completely untrue. The UK is in no way responsible for the islands' healthcare systems. User:Doktorbuk is correct in saying it's misleading. Putting bold all over the place doesn't strengthen your argument, it just makes this RfC less coherent to read. You've taken the 'responsible for' and stretched it to lengths it simply does not go to by any constitutional or practical means. The only thing the UK government is 'responsible' for with regard to the Crown Dependencies is their defence, international relations (such as with the UN, where Guernsey does not have a seat) and the Privy Council has a general duty to ensure 'good governance' which it has never needed to exercise; legislation and precedent have effectively removed any of the Privy Council's emergency powers to intervene even in the most extreme circumstances, with the islands having the final say over any legislation they try to implement. The UK government most certainly do not have any responsibility for healthcare in the islands. —Formulaonewiki 16:44, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
Comment may I suggest for the sake of keeping this RfC on topic that we don't bludgeon the process by getting into semantics about the responsibilities of the UK. We've covered this in above discussions and clearly aren't coming to any sort of compromise over the issue. We've both said our bit so let's just leave it and wait for other comments. —Formulaonewiki 16:59, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
Why making false claims when those island folks are using NHS? Who funded all those health services, huh? What does the British privy council do on the islands then? Sunbathing on the Jersey beaches 24/7? If according to such logics, the bots also run on themselves mostly in daily lives other than Mil&Dips. Of course, that's currently the mainstream opinion in this talk section, and it's probably gonna get changed. But my point is, currently it is not the case, and most dependencies are still being incorporated right now. And in accordance towards the prime principle of universal consistency, the remaining CDs should also be incorporated into the UK numbers, even before consensual decision is being make here. Else it would be breaking the aforementioned prime principle. Also, duh, I'm giving up, the reference section of UK is just too much for me, whenever I try to insert CD data into it and thought the format is perfectly fine, I always ended fucking the formats up. I still think my point of universal consistency deserves urgent concern and helps in editing nevertheless, but I'll just stress my arguments here from now on.
Best regards, Pktlaurence (talk) 17:11, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
Eh? What on earth are you on about? Islanders cannot make use of the NHS — I should bloody well know, I live there! The health services in Guernsey are funded by the States of Guernsey and taken out of local residents taxes and social security. The Privy Council, realistically, does very little in regard to the islands — they mostly just get on with things on their own. You are completely and utterly wrong. —Formulaonewiki 17:19, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
You don't seem to understand. Nobody cares whether the NHS is reponsible for the Channel Islands or not. They are crown dependencies, they aren't independent. That's why French Caledonia and Polynesia are not listed individually. This double standards has lasted long enough and there's no need for consensus when the decision has been taken for other countries' dependencies excepting those of the UK. The intricacies of British Constitutional law are meaningless here. There should be consistency across the board. Channel islands are not special entities that should be treated differently from other dependencies Manish2542 (talk) 18:17, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Support listing autonomous territories separately (where possible according to reliable sources). It avoids technical inaccuracies (such as wrongly describing Crown Dependencies as part of the UK), respects the differences between the development and response to the pandemic in each respective territory, and avoids practical issues when updating the figures (having to collate multiple sources for one entry because no reliable sources include all the various territories together; NB, to this end currently there are no sources provided for any of the BOT figures, yet they have been totalled through OR nonetheless). Also worth pointing out the support for separation in previous discussions here, here and here. —Formulaonewiki 10:45, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
Edit: in this revision I have added citations and better clarified the additional BOT figures in the note. —Formulaonewiki 11:21, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
Edit 2: as if to prove my point, a good faith editor has already 'corrected' the UK total to show only the UK count in this edit. —Formulaonewiki 13:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Support listing as separate entities where figures exist, explicitly showing them to be the valid counts for dependent territories. In the case of Guernsey, Jersey, and the Isle of Man, these are *not* part of the UK, and adding them to the UK total would be misleading. There is no neat solution because the status of these places differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. We should do what we can to fit the reality to our policy, and in the case of most dependencies, separate listing is appropriate. doktorb wordsdeeds 11:00, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Support listing autonomous territories and dependencies separately. The current figure for the UK is a mess. Some people insist on incorporating the BOTs and CDs into the UK and yet always copy the figure from the UK government, which only counts the four constituent countries, let alone the fact that the CDs are not part of the UK. It would save much energy for the practical reason as well as clarify any confusion for the technical reason at least for the UK were the BOTs and CDs to be listed separately. Chbe113 (talk) 11:17, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
I'm sorry that you've seen such irresponsible editors, but I always add the numbers of CDs into UK toll whenever I incorporate. BTW, does the UK governmental figures count bot tolls? Pktlaurence (talk) 15:37, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
No, they do not, which is why I have added separate citations and a breakdown of the cases in the notes. I imagine they will also be separated should support for separation in this RfC be overwhelming. —Formulaonewiki 16:44, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
Sadly they don't. The figures from the UK government come from NHS, which is only in charge of the four constituent countries. Chbe113 (talk) 18:22, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
Oh so all British dependencies have their own independent healthcare systems? Good, another strong reason to split all dependencies. I think the most important factor of split/incorporate is the independency of healthcare systems, since numbers are recorded by the healthcare agencies, different agencies produce separate numbers, and we better keep them separated as in their original data. And again, never forget to adhere to the principle of universal consistency. Pktlaurence (talk) 18:40, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
Notified: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject COVID-19. MarioGom (talk) 13:10, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Support all these territories. I would also like to include French Guiana, Guadeloupe, Martinique, Mayotte, Reunion (French overseas departments, which are politically part of France); along with Bonaire, Sint Eustatius, and Saba (Caribbean Netherlands). As Pktlaurence said, there is a vast difference between the main part of the country and a region halfway across the world. The French territories are included on worldometer, but the Dutch territories are not, so I understand why they would not be included. Does anyone know if they only add countries/regions when they develop at least one case, or if today just happens to be the day when all countries have had a case?—Naddruf (talk ~ contribs) 14:32, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
I couldn't direct you to any discussion confirming this, but from what I can gather from how this table has developed, I believe countries/territories are only added once a case is confirmed there. —Formulaonewiki 14:35, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
Thank you, I just realized that when I checked.—Naddruf (talk ~ contribs) 14:36, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
@Naddruf:Perhaps I can offer some help with some references from the Chinese Wikipedia. I've successfully endeavoured for a full dependency split in the Chinese page since long ago, even before Korea gets its mega-surge from cultists. As far as my last check, the Dutch dependencies including Aruba, Curaçao and Sint Maarten are on the list. You're welcome to take a look at the Page's source, although you might not be able to read Chinese, all the file names of the flags inside the source are written in English. Best regards, Pktlaurence (talk) 15:46, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
There is a difference between (Aruba Curacao and Sint Maarten) and (Bonaire Sint Eustatius and Saba). The former are separate "countries" from the Netherlands but are included, along with the Netherlands, in the Kingdom of the Netherlands, and are already included in the proposed additions. The latter "Caribbean Netherlands" are within the "country" of the Netherlands, but nevertheless are located on a different continent, and I think they should be separated.—Naddruf (talk ~ contribs) 16:30, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
What-bloody-ever...dependencies are just dependencies, let's not focus on categorisation, and just every single dependencies on the surface of mother Earth and split them in separate rows, alright? Just remember that I support to split as much as you do, and we definitely have zero necessity to bring 'different types' into debate or trying to use it as any forms of reasons. Now we're having overwhelming majority and truckloads of reasons and arguments stronger than diamonds, so I think a final decision will soon be made.

Best regards, Pktlaurence (talk) 19:06, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

  • split the bailiwicks and IOM, not Guadaloupe etc - Jersey, Guernsey, IOM etc are separate entities so should be split. Guadaloupe, Martinique etc are part of Metropolitan France and should be treat as such. We don't define, we reflect.--Mtaylor848 (talk) 16:42, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
That is blatantly against the prime principle of universal consistency. All Dependencies are dependent polities which their sovereignties are responsible for them. You either incorporate them all, or you split them all. Pktlaurence (talk) 17:11, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
Metropolitan France is the part located in Europe so overseas departments are not include. However, Pktlaurence's argument is not necessarily accurate because French Guiana and Guadeloupe are to France as Hawaii is to the United States; they are included in parliament. But unlike Hawaii and the United States, the populations of Metropolitan France and the Departements d'Outre mer are pretty separated and have distinct cultures.—Naddruf (talk ~ contribs) 17:49, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
  • De nada, Hawaii is officially the 50th state of USA, a directly governed American soil, while French dependencies aren't. No matter what, that doesn't matter at all since nothing you spoke are actually relevant to the argument of consistency (PLEASE ALSO NOTE THAT CULTURAL ISSUES HAS DEFINITELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS PAGE AND DONT GO OFF TOPIC). Universal Consistency matters, so we're definitely not gonna include some and leave out the rest.Pktlaurence (talk) 18:23, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
@Pktlaurence: Please be civil. French overseas departments are directly governed by the same system. The reason I mentioned cultural issues is they make a difference in whether something is understood to be <France, Netherlands, USA> or not. People don't think of French Guiana or Aruba as part of France or the Netherlands, unlike Hawaii.
Alright. Pktlaurence (talk) 18:53, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Furthermore, if you look closely, you should see I'm agreeing with you, but just pointing out a detail that makes these issues different. Both France and the Netherlands have two categories of overseas land; that which is technically part of the country and governed like anything else of the country, and that which is a territory and not subject to the main national government. In the first category, that would involve Bonaire, Sint Eustatius, Saba, French Guiana and Guadeloupe, etc. In the second category, that would include Aruba, Curacao, Sint Maarten, French Polynesia, Wallis and Futuna, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, etc. These are different issues. We have to decide if we include none and package them all into the sovereign powers, only the second category, or both the first and second category. It is somewhat annoying that a new discussion was made while this was still in progress.—Naddruf (talk ~ contribs) 18:41, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

  • Well, it's just that I couldn't understand the reasons of bringing cultural arguments to a public health issue. And all the different types of dependencies are just confusing. Dependencies are just... dependencies, so let's just forget about all those rigmaroles and simply split everyone of them who has an independent healthcare system of themselves. Pktlaurence (talk) 18:53, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
  • I am quite concerned that we are focusing on specific cases and we might loose the general picture. Let's adopt the parameters behind List of countries and dependencies by population. Wikipedia geographers have already sorted out the things we are discussing on. --Checco (talk) 17:54, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
    • That would mean to include French Guiana which is in South America, as part of France (along with the other territories). These are separated on worldometers, at kff.org, and at the Johns Hopkins map. I think there is a good reason to separate constituent territories in other continents that are culturally very different from the mainland.—Naddruf (talk ~ contribs) 18:26, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Support listing statistics according to List of countries and dependencies by population, without making special exceptions for cultural differences, or anything else. Any exceptions can be noted in the body of the article as appropriate. If there is some reason why that would be onerous, then my second choice would be to follow the scheme used by worldometers.info. - MrX 🖋 18:57, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Comments
    • I'm wondering what the use or uses of this template is.
    • One number for China, for example, tells us very little, whereas a map with breakdown by first level administrative division tells a useful story.
    • I am not keen on the "league table" aspect. I think it might work rather better if there were divisions were by continent, then territory, or perhaps just in alphabetical order.
All the best: Rich Farmbrough (the apparently calm and reasonable) 21:55, 21 March 2020 (UTC).
  • I propose listing territories in the same manner as reported by the sources from which we get the numbers, to avoid having to do calculations every time that we update them. The List of countries and dependencies by population is not the only standard, it doesn't include Akrotiri and Dhekelia and Svalbard, which are included in Dependent territory, or Somaliland, which is in the List of states with limited recognition. Based on how the sources report the numbers, I propose the following:
    • List all countries with limited recognition separately. The governments of the recognized countries only report the cases from the areas that they control.
    • List all British Crown dependencies, British overseas territories, SARs of China, constituent countries of Denmark and Netherlands separately.
    • Include Åland in Finland.[16]
    • Include all overseas regions of France, Saint Barthélemy and Saint Martin in the total for France. That is how the French government is reporting the total.[17] Worldometers shows this same total for France and lists the overseas regions again separately, which seems to be incorrect. List only the remaining overseas collectivities separately, if they have cases (Saint Pierre and Miquelon, New Caledonia, Wallis and Futuna, French Polynesia).
    • Include all US territories in the US, as that is how the US government is reporting the total.[18] Again, Worldometers seems to include US territories in the US total ("others" in the list of US states) and again separately.
    • It seems that so far here have been no cases in Svalbard, external territories of Australia, or associated states/territory of New Zealand. If there are cases there in the future, they should be combined or listed separately depending on how the governments of these countries report the totals. I suppose that Norway and Australia will combine them, but New Zealand will not. Heitordp (talk) 04:42, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
@Heitordp:My suggestion is we don't split by the standard of this article, but we simply split all dependencies, including that Brit base on Cyprus and svalbard too, but Somaliland is definitely another issue—its a country with limited recognition. We will open another thread to discuss about CLRs. Pktlaurence (talk) 11:39, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
@Pktlaurence: Support, split all dependencies. We should be careful when copying numbers from sources that include dependencies, but they are becoming so large so fast that any mistakes will be insignificant. Heitordp (talk) 16:13, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Support all territories from all countries should be included separately. Many territories are far from their owner countries and it simply make more sense to list them separately in the context of an epidemic. -- Akira😼CA 10:52, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Support all territories from all countries should be included separately. The issue of the spread of the epidemic is geographical, not political. Including remote territories with another part of the world simply obscures the extent of the pandemic. Who owns what, controls what, or funds what services is really irrelevant to the epidemiology of the virus. Geography is the real issue. Ptilinopus (talk) 12:41, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

When are we gonna bloody implement those changes then? Since we're already having an overwhelming support here. Pktlaurence (talk) 11:39, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure if we should wait for the RfC period. Maybe someone experienced can help. Ping Rich Farmbrough, Doc James (just to name a few watching this page): do you think we can implement this change without waiting for RfC closure period? --MarioGom (talk) 15:58, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
RfC duration: "An RfC should last until enough comment has been received that consensus is reached, [...] There is no required minimum or maximum duration; [...] To end an RfC manually, remove the {{rfc}} template from the talk page." Heitordp (talk) 16:13, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Heitordp: Thank you. I'm not sure what the exact conclusion should be. While there is a clear consensus on splitting dependencies, the details are not clear. There are two positions that could be summarized as 1) split all dependencies and 2) split dependencies to the extent that official sources report separately. Even the implementation details of both positions are not clear to me. --MarioGom (talk) 17:17, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
MarioGom I think the consensus is fairly clear, to split all dependencies. RandomIntrigue (talk) 17:52, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
RandomIntrigue: That's not what I'm reading. Some people said split all dependencies/territories/entities (multiple variations), others suggested following a scheme like List of countries and dependencies by population which does not split Guadaloupe or Martinique, Heitordp made a fairly detailed proposal with some specifics... --MarioGom (talk) 18:11, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
MarioGom: Out of those two choices, I'd be more in favour of splitting to the extent that official sources report separately. Seems a logical solution and the most practical with regard to updating figures. —Formulaonewiki 22:58, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Some people said that we should use a "universal consistency" regarding which territories to list separately, but Wikipedia doesn't have one. The List of countries and dependencies by population, List of countries and dependencies by area, Dependent territory and ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 are all slightly different. They all agree that dependencies should be listed separately from their sovereign countries, but what exactly counts as a dependency varies. For example: the French overseas regions are listed separately in ISO but not in the lists by area or population (which claim to be based on ISO); Akrotiri and Dhekelia is not in ISO or the list by population but is in the list by area; Bonaire, Saba and Sint Eustatius compose one entry in ISO, three entries in the list by area, and are only included in the Netherlands in the list by population.

I think that we are free to define which dependencies to split depending on the purpose or the article. For example, the List of circulating currencies implicitly includes the French overseas regions (and its collectivities in the Americas) in France because they all use the euro, but splits Bonaire, Saba and Sint Eustatius from the Netherlands because they use the US dollar, and it even splits Alderney from Guernsey. Even this coronavirus table has an unusual deviation from normal lists of countries by listing a ship.

Here the purpose is to show the geographic distribution of the disease, so I think that the criteria should be what the name of the country is commonly understood to include, its distance to the dependency, and how the sources for the number of cases list them. Below is a table of all dependencies that had cases so far. Please add a row to mark your suggestion on how to list each one, and we can change it multiple times until we reach a consensus. A dash means listed separately. Don't take my suggestion as a fixed opinion, I'm totally open to change it so we can reach a consensus. In the meantime, we could at least split the dependencies that we already agree with.

Justification for my suggestion: Worldometers seems to have corrected its US total, now including only states and DC, and keeping US territories separate. The French health page shows a number for metropolitan France and for each overseas region, Saint Barthélemy and Saint Martin. The numbers reported by Cyprus include Akrotiri and Dhekelia.[19] The Danish health page shows cases for each territory separately. The Finnish health page only shows a total for the whole country. All other dependencies are reported by separate sources. Heitordp (talk) 23:38, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Considering we allow Northern Cyprus, an unrecognised territory, it would make more sense to allow Ak/Dh because it is legally and internationally recognised as a territory of the UK. I think that the Åland Islands should also be separated for consistency. I've added my suggested edits below. RandomIntrigue (talk) 00:53, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
I see that despite this RfC being ongoing, someone has decided to preempt the decision, and has deleted Guernsey, Jersey and Isle of Man, combining them with UK, and Northern Cyprus, combining it with Cyprus. I see no mention of this in Talk. I should have thought that this would have awaited consensus. Ptilinopus (talk) 16:11, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
My thoughts too. I just reverted the CDs back to being listed separately but the user combined them again. Don't understand why -- the consensus here almost unanimously counts them separately, and this RfC isn't concluded; its other territories that just need deciding upon now (whether we do all or combine some). —Formulaonewiki 16:18, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
Ptilinopus: I think the merge should be reverted (split them again). It's not only that the RfC is open, but also consensus is leaning exactly in the opposite direction. --MarioGom (talk) 16:21, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
That's what I've said -- user has combined them again! Sigh. —Formulaonewiki 16:22, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
I have added rows for the Johns Hopkins CSSE (merges most territories), WHO (splits most, but makes a clear distinction between recognized states and other territories) and ECDC (splits dependencies but not overseas provinces). I have also added my vote to split them all. It looks like reliable sources make it possible and we can add a footnotes to all these territories clarifying the split. If you think it could be helpful, we could also format all dependencies and unrecognized states with italics. I'm not sure about Akrotiri and Dhekelia and Åland Islands, since I'm not so sure we can sustain reliable sources for them, but if we can, I would split them too. --MarioGom (talk) 16:21, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

I found an obstacle to split the territories. Several sources provide the number of cases, but only JHU and Worldometers seem to provide the number of recoveries. JHU combines all territories with the respective countries, and Worldometers is inconsistent, for example showing the number for France including all overseas regions and also listing them separately, and sometimes doing that for the US too. It takes way too much time to figure out the number of cases, deaths and recoveries in all territories and subtract them from the country. And since the numbers are constantly changing, the effort becomes a boulder of Sisyphus. It would be nice to use the WHO situation reports, which list almost all territories separately and get updated just once a day at the same time with all countries. They worked very well during the Ebola epidemics. But they don't show the number of recoveries, and I suppose that people want to see that information here.

I'd also like to mention that I find this template a horrible mess. There are way too many sources, conflicting with each other, people are making edits almost every minute, the sums are not getting updated, and the wiki code is almost unintelligible with lengthy comments and nested templates. I tried to test splitting some territories (just in a preview) and couldn't get anywhere, wasting too much time with calculations to harmonize multiple sources and getting interrupted by the avalanche of edits from other users.

If possible, I'd like to extend the scope of this RfC to radically simplify this template. First, use only one source for everything and just copy the numbers from there exactly into the table. Individual sources from each country may be more up to date but everything is going to get changed after a few hours anyway. So use either JHU, which shows recoveries but combines the territories, or WHO, which splits territories but doesn't show recoveries. It would be great if someone found a better source but for now there doesn't seem to be one. We'd have to make a choice.

Second, remove all the junk code. Can we just make each row like this? {{flag|country}} || 123 || 4 || 56.

Third, after this pandemic is all over (hopefully soon) and the numbers stop changing, we can calmly calculate the numbers once and finally split all territories. Heitordp (talk) 17:34, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Heitordp: I don't think changing the scope of this RfC is really an option. On the template complexity, there is a possible solution at Template:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic data/layout that merits a separate discussion. On the problem with references and update frequency, that could be a separate RfC to decide if we prefer daily updates from CSSE (or WHO or whatever fixed source) or the current model. --MarioGom (talk) 22:24, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
I just realized how to see the number of cases, deaths and recoveries by territory for each country in JHU (click on "Admin 2", I suppose it means second administrative level), and that it's easy to avoid the cluttered code in the template with the visual editor. So the calculations and updates are not that bad. In the end, even if someone copies the numbers for a country including the territories, it's an insignificant error since the territories are relatively small and the numbers change all the time anyway.
I'm surprised that this template doesn't cite JHU but cites various news articles that get outdated quickly, and well as Worldometers while warning not to use it for several countries. JHU is already doing all the work of gathering the sources so we don't have to repeat it. I think that we can indeed split all territories and use JHU as the source. We'll also have to change or remove all the notes, comments and references accordingly.
Note that JHU only shows a number of recoveries for the US including all territories, not for each one. It also doesn't split Ak/Dh and Åland. But these territories have so few cases that I think that we can split them and just allocate all deaths and recoveries to the main country only. Maybe leave those columns blank for the territories instead of putting zeros, or add a note.
MarioGom: I believe that the consensus has been reached. The people who suggested following the list of territories by population agree with splitting all territories in the table below. There are reliable and consistent sources for all of them. I can try to make the changes when I have more time, if someone doesn't do it earlier. Heitordp (talk) 01:39, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
Heitordp: I think I understand your point, but my understanding is that there is a current informal consensus that JHU is "too outdated". I think changing that would require a separate RfC. --MarioGom (talk) 08:46, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
No problem, we can keep using other sources, but I think that JHU needs to be added to some countries to cite the number of recoveries. I see that you already did that for France. Heitordp (talk) 12:38, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Oppose the British privilege of having three miniscule personal properties of her holy imperial magnificent royal highness listed individually and quite lost as to why the Diamond Princess is still being listed here as all the persons on board have disembarked and are being double counted in the national tallies of the countries that have recuperated them Manish2542 (talk) 17:47, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

The Japanese government has released new numbers of the Diamond Princess, subtracting those who were evacuated to other countries and increasing the recoveries.[20] We should update them in the table. The updated numbers represent people who remained in Japan until they recovered and are not included in the numbers for Japan itself or other countries. Heitordp (talk) 01:23, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
dependency HK MO PR VI GU GF GP MQ RE YT BL MF NC PF Ak/Dh BM KY GI MS TC GG JE IM AW CW SX FO GL AX
currently - - US US US FR FR FR FR FR FR FR FR FR GB CY GB GB GB GB GB - - - NL NL NL DK DK FI
Johns Hopkins CN CN US US US FR FR FR FR FR FR FR FR FR ? GB GB GB GB ? GB GB GB NL NL NL DK DK ?
WHO CN CN - - - - - - - - - - - - ? - - - - - - - - - - - - - ?
ECDC ([21], [22]) CN CN US? - - FR FR FR FR FR FR FR - - ? - - - - - - - - - - - - - ?
Heitordp - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
RandomIntrigue - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
MarioGom - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ? - - - - - - - - - - - - - ?
ptilinopus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Formulaonewiki ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - - - ? ? ? ? ? ?
Checco - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The WHO already provides data on most territories. Today's situation report linked here. Krazytea(talk) 20:56, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
I support separating all autonomous and semi-autonomous territories from their 'mainland'. Thank you to Beshogur: who italicised the countries with limited recognition. I think that we should also italicise autonomous and semi-autonomous territories such as Catalonia, Hong Kong and Jersey. JMonkey2006 (talk) 00:14, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
JMonkey2006: Just a note on Catalonia: it is not an autonomous territory or dependency. It has exactly the same status (de facto and de iure) as any other Spanish region. It is not an overseas territory either. --MarioGom (talk) 08:20, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Generally support, as spread of the virus is mostly geographical and not political. Recombining some remote dependency into the home country could be misleading in some instances.--Eostrix (talk) 10:37, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
  • I'd like to propose a closure for the RfC. However, it is still not clear if we would be able to reliably source cases in Akrotiri and Dhekelia independently, since they seem to be reported together with Cyprus. Also, the World Health Organization, which splits most British Overseas Territories does not split Akrotiri and Dhekelia and probably includes it in Cyprus. --MarioGom (talk) 21:30, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
The Cyprus Mail routinely mentions how many cases of the Cyprus total are from Akrotiri and Dhekelia.[23] It also reports cases from Northern Cyprus separately.[24] Likewise, this page maintained by the Finnish government shows the number of cases in each region (click on "Tapausmäärät" below the map) so we can split Åland. We can use these sources instead of WHO for these places. Let's close the RfC. Heitordp (talk) 01:23, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Unless there is any objection soon, I will close this RfC with this conclusion:

There is a strong consensus on splitting all autonomous territories and dependencies with some disagreements on the criteria to be followed. Some territories were explicitly agreed to be split:

Availability of reliable sources (WP:RS) is a prerequisite for any split. Reliable sources are believed to exist for all territories that were explicitly agreed.

--MarioGom (talk) 09:29, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Until a consensus is reached on all dependencies why are the Channel Islands being given special privilege? Remove them till consensus is achieved for ALL dependencies

Everything in the title Manish2542 (talk) 18:20, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello Manish2542, I'm afraid you haven't done your homework yet with the issue. Try searching for discussions on the Channel Islands in the archives of the talk page and see if those discussions are of any help.
I may not be familiar with the status of the Channel Islands, so that is all I can suggest for the moment.
Here is the search link for "Channel Islands" from the archives of this talk page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Channel&prefix=Template+talk%3A2019%E2%80%9320+coronavirus+pandemic+data%2F&fulltext=Search+archives&fulltext=Search&ns0=1
For the future, please put your concerns in the body of your new topic and not in the title section.
Cheers. RayDeeUx (talk) 18:50, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Northern Cyprus

@Pktlaurence: Northern Cyprus is not unrecognised. It is partially unrecognised such as Taiwan, Kosovo, Palestine so on... It is not comparable with Transnistria. Either we only include UN-states, or stop removing Northern Cyprus, which already has more cases then several countries. Beshogur (talk) 16:35, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

@Beshogur: It IS comparable with Transnistria indeed. Both are puppet states planted by a regional power, and both ONLY recognised by their overlord. Pktlaurence (talk) 16:39, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

This is not Reddit. Push your personal bias somewhere. Beshogur (talk) 16:41, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
Ha? It seems like you just run out of words and arguments, and just simply accuse me of personal bias, instead of giving proper evidences and EVEN responding to my points which you failed to do so. What i am stating are all facts, if youre actually willing to debate please at least give proper responses. I suspected you supported NC only because youre Turkish and you have personal bias. Pktlaurence (talk) 16:47, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
Agreed with Beshogur. You are making a controversial edit which undoubtedly would require discussion and consensus to implement. You are free to begin a discussion here and construct an argument as to why you believe they are comparable but currently, you have no real justification. Please stop resorting to ad hominem attacks (assuming intention), and don't demand other users reply to specific points or arguments; they do not owe you anything. PS, using bold really doesn't make your points any clearer, if anything it does the exact opposite. —Formulaonewiki 16:51, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
Being more objective, does not make sense to join both "countries" since we have two articles: 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Northern Cyprus and 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Cyprus. Albertoleoncio (talk) 16:54, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Wow, I'm appalled that you cant see the fact that its actually he who made an empty ad hominem attack without any meaningful contents against me first. And I'm even more appalled that you expect talk page discussions to be empty without meaningful contents. So much for a 'good editor' like you, no wonder you keep reverting my edits. Pktlaurence (talk) 16:56, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

"So much for a 'good editor' like you, no wonder you keep reverting my edits." This is not civil talk page conduct. Please stop. —Formulaonewiki 17:02, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
  • So much for your 'civility'. Don't forget someone made an uncivil ad hominem attack on me first, but you're turning a blind eye on it and accused me of ad hominem instead. I might use bolds, and you might not like the habit (but i will keep using it), but at least I'm making meaningful arguments instead of empty ad hominem attacks with zero meaningful contents like him. Pktlaurence (talk) 17:14, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
I agree. This behavior is not acceptable here. I think you’ve reverted different editors at least 6 times over the same content. United States Man (talk) 17:05, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
I did not revert their edits. I typed all edits manually. Besides I don't think those have a consensus (the NC one at least).Pktlaurence (talk) 17:14, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
Same difference. —Formulaonewiki 17:25, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

@Albertoleoncio: my point is, Transnistria gets incorporated. NC is in a similar situation of Transnistria and it should be getting the same treatment like it...the people in this wiki are just strange enough that they always breaks the principle of universal consistency so blatantly. Amd, well, NC is not a country, it is an unrecognised puppet state like Transnistria. Maybe you think i have biases, but i think take off the word 'puppet' everybody will agree to this statement. Pktlaurence (talk) 16:59, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Are you accusing the above editor of being a sockpuppet? —Formulaonewiki 17:07, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
De nada, I'm saying NC is a puppet state, and my accusations towards him is that he made ad hominem attacks with zero meaningful argument against me, and whilst you defended him blindly because you have a Vendetta with me.Pktlaurence (talk) 17:16, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
I don't have any vendetta against you, why are you making baseless accusations? I couldn't care less about you personally. —Formulaonewiki 17:27, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

People, lets focus a little bit. What the core sources says? They are joined or separeted? Albertoleoncio (talk) 17:13, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. Indeed, they are reported on separately and sourced separately. Seems only logical to list them so too. —Formulaonewiki 17:27, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
@Albertoleoncio: My point is Transnistria. Basically everyone knows it is the same thing as NC as in how the Pope is Catholic. Transnistria is currently incorporated with moldovan data. Pktlaurence (talk)
Read the first answer again. Also make a visit to Foreign relations of Northern Cyprus. It isn't comparable with Transdniester. Also List_of_states_with_limited_recognition#States_that_are_neither_UN_members_nor_UN_observers. Either remove ROC, Palestine and Kosovo, or add Northern Cyprus. Your choice sir. Beshogur (talk) 17:35, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
Whether to list a country here should not be about political recognition, but about how the sources are reporting cases. We are even listing a ship here. I prefer to list any unrecognized country that has reported cases and is not included in the number reported by the respective recognized country. Taiwan, Palestine, Northern Cyprus and Kosovo are listed because they have reported cases and are not included in the numbers reported by China, Israel, Cyprus and Serbia. Transnistria has also reported cases, but it's not listed separately because they are already included in the number reported by Moldova. Other unrecognized countries like Abkhazia and South Ossetia aren't listed simply because they haven't reported any cases so far, but if they do and Georgia doesn't include them, they should be listed as well. I support listing Northern Cyprus in italics like the ship or adding a note to clarify its limited recognition, but not combining the number with Cyprus. The numbers are changing frequently and I'd rather avoid calculations in every update. Heitordp (talk) 17:41, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
Well thanks for your reply. Days ago I added a footnote for partially recognised states but they were removed. It's a good solution. Beshogur (talk) 17:43, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
Sounds like a good solution to me too. —Formulaonewiki 19:18, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
Someone keeps removing the italics and/or notes that resolve this issue. I'm also in agreement with what is being discussed here (in regards to italics/adding notes). Although it doesn't help that others are ignoring the talks and editing in what they personally want. @Formulaonewiki: @Beshogur: ChaoticTexan (talk) 03:14, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

I think all unrecognized states, dependencies, etc, should use italics. The World Health Organization does report on these territories separately, as discussed above, but it does so making a clear distinction. --MarioGom (talk) 23:23, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Common note for partially recognised states

Can someone add it if possible. I tried it but it doesn't work. Thanks in advance. Beshogur (talk) 11:00, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

I have added "Partially recognised states are included." in the edit notice to stop edit warring. Is that OK? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:43, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
Or do you mean a foot note? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:47, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
Yes. Beshogur (talk) 13:00, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
Someone undid the italicisation of partially recognised states. I think that we should italicise all partially recognised states, and autonomous and semi-autonomous territories. A common footnote would also be good. However with the issue of naming the 'mainland' (eg. China (mainland), Denmark (mainland)), is it better to just write the country's name or add a (mainland) like what is done to China? JMonkey2006 (talk) 00:20, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Implementation of RfC's outcome

Thanks to User:MarioGom for closing the RfC.
Two questions:

  • Who is going to implement changes?
  • Would we need specific RfCs for the cases which were not explicitly cited?

Cheers, --Checco (talk) 09:24, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Checco: I'm going to start implementing change for the easier ones (Finland, Denmark, Netherlands) and then move to others unless someone else does it before. Regarding other cases, I think it might be better to start a regular discussion first rather than a formal RfC. If there is no consensus, at least we can identify the options for a well-formed RfC. --MarioGom (talk) 09:37, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
OK. However, if no-one disagrees, we can add ALL territories, also the non-cited ones. --Checco (talk) 09:50, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
Checco: I'm assuming that, based on the RfC result, we are going to split all autonomous territories that are clearly comparable to those we listed explicitly if there are reliable sources for it. Specially those that are split by the World Health Organization too. Regarding partially recognized states, I think we should split those that are split by the World Health Organization, and discuss the others. --MarioGom (talk) 10:03, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

The outcome is almost fully implemented. The only exception is Akrotiri and Dhekelia, which is included in Cyprus' figures. I have found no up-to-date source that reliably reports Akrotiri and Dhekelia cases in a way that it can be consistently subtracted from Cyprus totals. However, at least it is not double counted both in the United Kingdom and Cyprus anymore. If anyone finds a source that reports both Cyprus total and Akrotiri and Dhekelia figures at the same point in time, feel free to split it. I'm reluctant to subtract amounts when the total (Cyprus including Ak/Dh) and Ak/Dh figures correspond to different days. --MarioGom (talk) 16:08, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

MarioGom: Thank you for making the changes. Cyprus Mail, the source currently used in the table, always reports the total and how many of those are in Ak/Dh (British bases). Here's the latest report: [25].
The French government daily reports a total for France,[26] which includes GF GP MQ RE YT MF BL (but not NC PF). It used to list the number for each territory but now it just displays the total. However, it's possible to confirm that this total still includes these territories by comparing with the WHO report on the next day, which splits them.[27] The numbers match exactly. JHU apparently is not aware of this and double counts them, adding every territory again to the total reported by the French government. Therefore, in the sum template, we should use the French government number for the total (not the JHU total) and subtract GF GP MQ RE YT MF BL (but not NC PF). Heitordp (talk) 17:50, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
Heitordp: Thank you. I have split Ak/Dh. I'll will fix France later unless someone else does it before. --MarioGom (talk) 18:11, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
Implementing a split of French overseas regions is impossible considering that data is collected on national scale. This will necessarily lead to double count or WP:OR. Their status cannot be compared with British crown dependencies at all as they are considered by the French government as integral regions of the country. Metropolitan (talk) 19:47, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
Metropolitan: It's totally possible, the regions collect that data locally and France adds the numbers. Until last week the French health agency was clearly showing in its website the total for metropolitan France and each overseas region separately, and it still reports it that way for the WHO every day: [28] It also shows the number of deaths and recoveries by region: [29] In the worst case we can use the WHO data and it will just be one day old. This is not original research, we are merely copying the numbers from the source. JHU is the one double counting.
We already closed this discussion. Even though the overseas regions are considered integral parts of France unlike British territories, the purpose of this table is to show the geographic spread of the disease so it makes more sense to follow location than political status. Heitordp (talk) 20:42, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
Heitordp: Then let's list Hawaii independently to track the epidemic in the Pacific? Joke aside, no matter what, I expect Wikipedia editors to upload official counts for France, you can't do anything against that. If that was only about me, I would say, stick to official sources as they are. Metropolitan (talk) 20:48, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
Metropolitan: We already had this discussion, see above. Initially I also supported keeping territories combined if the numbers are reported that way by the country, but other users preferred to split them if there are reliable sources to cite the separate numbers. The consensus was to split the French overseas regions because, in addition to their geographic distance, they have separate ISO codes, are listed separately by WHO, and are usually not thought to be included when referring to the name of the country. They are also specifically named "overseas" (d'outre-mer) by France and they do have a few legal differences from the metropolitan regions such as visas and VAT. Hawaii doesn't meet any of these conditions, and it's also less far from the US than the overseas regions are from France. I understand that these criteria can be subjective, but as I said, we already discussed this before and decided to split the French regions but not Hawaii. If you wish to change the consensus you may open a new RfC. Heitordp (talk) 22:01, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

France's official map ([30]) (thanks Heitordp) provides per-region breakdown of deaths and "recoveries" (hospital discharges, indicator used as "recoveries" by JHU and other sources). However, as of 26 March, they stopped reporting confirmed cases (cas confirmés) per region. Apparently they decided to replace with another indicator soon (Un nouvel indicateur sera bientôt proposé.) They still provide confirmed cases at national level, but for some reasons they decided to stop publishing it per region. Does anyone know if they still publish it elsewhere other than WHO Situation Reports? --MarioGom (talk) 07:07, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
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