User talk:Look2See1/Archive 1

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 → Archive 5

Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, Look2See1, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{tl|helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! Melburnian (talk) 07:48, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


Rancho El Escorpión

Look2See1. Good work on the new additions to Rancho El Escorpión. My previous concern was that we should keep the material on the page directly related to the page, and not branch off into other material, interesting as it is, that is actually better on another page. Thanks.

  • PS As some of your comments on the Rancho EE Talk page were really directed to me, you might want to cut those and paste on my Talk page for the record - just edit and add them to the bottom of my Talk page. Some of your comments that are useful to a wider audience that should remain on the Rancho EE talk page. *PSS You will find that there is not standard for replying to USER Talk pages - either on your Talk page or on Theirs - both are used.Emargie (talk) 16:38, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Thank you Emargie, will move comments directed to you. Some of the new info citations needs more citations or more specific pages info, will add. Again, much appreciation for your efforts and accomplishments with all ranchos.---Look2See1 (talk) 17:09, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for that link. There is often unintended confusion between the land grant "Rancho" and the "main house" (usually an adobe, usually historic) "Rancho". We see this at Rancho Simi, Rancho Cerritos, Rancho Encino, etc They are quite different (but related) and should have each have their own page. Cheers. Emargie (talk) 00:04, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Spanish Gardens

Thanks for noticing the duplication between Spanish gardens and Spanish garden. I've gone ahead and merged these. Also, the talk page, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening, would have been a better place to point this out than Wikipedia:WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening, but that is no big deal. Kingdon (talk) 13:22, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Waimea on Kauaʻi?

Hello, thanks for helping with the Russian history in Hawaii. However, I think you mistook the different towns with the same name. The Russians were on Kauaʻi, the western-most major island. So the material belongs in the Waimea, Kauai County, Hawaii article. The town Waimea, Hawaii County, Hawaii is in on the other side of the island chain, hundreds of miles east. It is confusing that Hawaii has multiple cities with the same name; mostly due to getting the names hundreds of years before becoming part of the USA. Also be careful of diacritic usage. W Nowicki (talk) 19:13, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks W Nowicki, will correct place-name and island name in this article and other Russians in Hawaiʻi articles.---Look2See1 (talk) 19:32, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Huntington

[1] Stating a botanical garden as "superb" without reliable sources is a violation of our neutral point of view policy. Wikipedia maintains neutrality; we do not inject our personal beliefs or views into an article. —Dark 05:30, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

You need reliable sources that state that it is "world-renowned". —Dark 06:08, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Read the policy on original research. If you cannot come up with sources to back up your claims, the claims will be removed. Our encyclopedia is neutral. We do not say something is "amazing" or "world class renowned" without sources to back it up. Please read NPOV before proceeding. —Dark 06:35, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, you helped me realize a view from 'a lifetime of professional experiences' with the garden are really just only personal opinions in an article context. While haven't got back to Huntington article yet, have carried that awareness to other edits and topics with citation efforts instead of 'opinion adjectives.' Am a wiki-newbie, so thanks again for helping learning.---Look2See1 (talk) 04:39, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
Dark, if it was anything other than Huntington Gardens I would agree the word "superb" is POV. HkFnsNGA (talk) 06:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Shoshone language

Shoshoni is not, and never was, spoken in California. Look at every item in the bibliography in the article and you will not see one word saying that Shoshoni was spoken in California. Timbisha is spoken in California, but it is not Shoshoni--it is a separate language. See also the article on Numic languages for further bibliography if you're still confused. (Taivo (talk) 04:04, 12 April 2010 (UTC))

Thank you for clarifying links. I just needed some help to learn more than the specific articles could provide when they're saying 'the language was Shoshone' - and to comprehend your confusing reverts. Please try to be kind to 'good faith efforts.' Only deleting others efforts helps no one to learn from actually understanding an error. Peace----Look2See1 (talk) 04:28, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
My apologies for being blunt. (Taivo (talk) 04:58, 12 April 2010 (UTC))

ALL S.F. Valley Move Requests (movereqs) + ANI Topic Page

  • (moved to archive)
  • NOTE: 'WIKI-Avoid personal attacks Policy' is periodically not honored by User:Purplebackpack89 postings below & especially on ANI page ----Look2See1 t a l k → 19:34, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Also, I closed your Reseda request, there was already a movereq going on...if you feel that Reseda should be moved, comment on that one Purplebackpack89 (Notes Taken) (Trails blazed) 22:23, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

The "Spanish placename" you cite has no neighborhoods. We are in the process of moving most LA neighborhoods to Blankedyblack, Los Angeles; it will be consistent in a week or so. Also, you should bundle your requests, rather than having a bunch of little ones Purplebackpack89 (Notes Taken) (Trails blazed) 22:28, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

S.F. Valley nomenclature request

I closed it again for the same reasons I closed it the first time...you don't have multiple move requests (or multiple of any requests) going on at the same time. Voting "I don't want to move PAGE-A to PAGE-B, but to PAGE-C is a perfectly acceptable vote" in the first move request, if that's how you feel Purplebackpack89 (Notes Taken) (Trails blazed) 00:01, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but have no idea what process you are talking about. Yet again - I'm a newbie - and learning a lot quickly, however your suggestion makes no sense that I can followup on. I'm sure it's a good approach, but unapproachable for my skill levels. All I know is you are repeatedly erasing messages on talk pages - that is wrong even to a beginner. Please stop 'power-tripping' the situation, it feels abusive now, and try calm resolution effort instead.---Look2See1 (talk) 00:51, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

{{helpme}} Section #1

{{helpme}} I do not understand the problem that began or process that established being in this 'admin-limbo' nor how to resolve the non-admin. portion without responses from other party - or on my own therefore. Does one '< ! -- -- >' or 'delete' all it here and await admin. response? What is the "the {{tb}} template" please? (thank you)Look2See1 (talk) 17:49, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

From what I'm reading here, it looks like you're trying to use {{helpme}} to communicate with the people who have left you messages here. Please don't do that, as a different editor may come here in response to your helpme requests each time. Instead, if you want to draw someone's attention to a reply you've made here, please put the {{tb}} template on their talk page. --Darkwind (talk) 03:05, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for your help Darkwind. Per 'help me' tags; I wasn't trying to use {{helpme}} to communicate with the person who had left me original messages here. At this point I'm sorry I don't know who else you may mean as Purplebackpack89 has not responded to my 'cut and paste' posting on his talk page of my message below (before posting ((Help Me)) tags here. There is no response so far. Bottom line question is how does this proceed and conclude?--Look2See1 (talk) 17:03, 28 April 2010 (UTC) (please see ? above below ((help me)) .)
See below for comments.  Chzz  ►  19:02, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

ANI Topic

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Purplebackpack89 (Notes Taken) (Trails blazed) 22:48, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Uh, that belongs on my talk page, not your talk page Purplebackpack89 (Notes Taken) (Locker) 22:14, 29 April 2010 (UTC)---moved to archiveLook2See1 t a l k → 03:06, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
Also, pointing out policy violations on WP:ANI isn't a personal attack. What are personal attacks is listed here: Wikipedia:No personal attacks Purplebackpack89 (Notes Taken) (Locker) 22:22, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
"Uh ?" - please try to be clear and articulate in your communication. Please feel free to put it on your own page for reference, it belongs on mine as a personal reminder of a wiki-policy-link. Please consider removing me from your focus, our world has real issues needing our care. Thank you-Look2See1 t a l k → 22:24, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
If concepts aren't clear, I have linked them. You have started an ANI thread against me, accusing me of doing stuff wrong; I have to follow that. My big project on this Wikipedia is getting American neighborhoods to adopt the form NEIGHBOORHOOD, CITY, so...yeah Purplebackpack89 (Notes Taken) (Locker) 22:35, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Dear User:Purplebackpack89, Please remember you initiated the " WP:ANI thread against (ME), accusing me of doing stuff wrong, " incorrectly calling my concerns vandalism. I merely responded afterwards. Your " concepts aren't clear, " your links are irrelevant to "WIKI-Avoid personal attacks Policy' is periodically not honored by User:Purplebackpack89 postings," and for my speaking group standards you are not "clear and articulate in your communication." Please note the 'Barnstar' above, some value my dialect and effort. Yours is not wrong, I'm just not comprehending you.
You seem to be angry, I'm sorry my initial actions - though well intentioned - contributed to that. Before the last 'namereq' I submitted that day I've been only polite and attempting accurate communication. Today I carefully posted 'Neutral Position' on namereq talkpages for Valley districts. Please consider not reacting in anger in this context and to me, we know you can, your talkpage has an award for your fine abilities and capacities to do so.
My own worldview concerns of global and humane issues needing care do not include " getting American neighborhoods to adopt " any nomenclature form, especially with wiki-struggles. " User:Purplebackpack89, Please consider removing me from your focus, our world has real issues needing our care ". Thank you-Look2See1 t a l k → 23:06, 29 April 2010 (UTC)---moved to archiveLook2See1 t a l k → 03:06, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
BEGIN: My 2/28/2010 Reply On ANI ISSUE PAGE;
re: Purplebackpack89
Purplebackpack89 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The discussion is about the topic Purplebackpack89.  :::Thank you. Content issues Civility problems
I am a newbie. I do not know what this process is yet. I take it seriously. My goodwill intent was for clarity of article linking and retrieval use.
Re: Purplebackpack89's "calls out a user (myself) in an (article's) talk page, even after I warned him not to over both talk and e-mail." - I'm sorry but do not understand problem and never received understanding that a user's wiki-i.d. is not ok to refer to as is on all history pages of all articles I tried to discuss with him. His message was not comprehendible. I hope this isn't repeating that mistake again - I'm terribly confused - so respectfully suggested; if one reads my note to User:Purplebackpack89 talk page a half-hour or so before this it may help show the shared problem. However unskillfully and incorrectly I regretfully attempted to do it by, the essence of my message to Purplebackpack89 was "please discuss this with me and others, it is causing difficulty and confusion." Putting a notice on article talk pages was not vandalism, but concern.
A basic wiki-guideline seen is "be kind to newbies." That has not been my experience here with User:Purplebackpack89 yet. I feel attacked by a wiki-expert. Purplebackpack89 has erased my questions from articles. Not knowing another route or how to use this page properly the best I can do it insert a ((vandal|[[User:Purplebackpack89|Purplebackpack89])) above. The intention is not a struggle, game, or to be provocative ! - I've no idea what else to do. I've asked for his help before this note without success, and so will try this. Very open to help resolve this and learn more about my mistakes, to not repeat them. I am not a vandal, please consider looking to my San Fernando Valley articles' edits to see sincere intent to be of service. I hope the ((subst:ANI-notice|[[User:Purplebackpack89|Purplebackpack89])) above is the required notification, the request is respected. If anyone reviews this please consider helping me to resolve it peacefully.
Thank you, ___Look2See1 (talk) 01:26, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
END: My 2/28/2010 Reply On ANI Notice ISSUE PAGE.
BEGIN: My 2/29/2010 Reply On ANI Notice ISSUE PAGE;
Editor Purplebackpack89, in my experience, is not honoring Assume Good Faith or WP:CIVIL protocol. To begin with expertise; this is my first computer (ever) and I am a 'newbie' - no argument from a stranger as they are is wise or appropriate. Family and friends are amazed 'the Luddite' is even able to correct spelling in a wikiarticle. The "1,000 edits" are primarily doing ''article'' and "[[ category:__]]" links. I'm recuperating from surgery and so have the time to do numerous simple little edits, probably nothing "sysop" (whatever that may mean). My understanding is that it is not a requirement to be facile in code-lingua or be a technophile to participate in wikipedia. I respect those abilities but do not have them.
I'm not being disruptive on any of the talkpages, only trying to discuss, alone however without Purplebackpack89's comprehensible (or even direct now) responses in return. My phrasing is always polite (never in a "Look2See1 guy" gender presumptive and dismissive or "inexcusable" accusatory tone). Perhaps it's novices' questions that are disruptive to Purplebackpack89. Unfortunately with no help from Purplebackpack89, nonetheless I found on my own that the '3' to '2' names transition for the L.A. districts Name Template has been in discussion for some time, with consensus to begin. That is very acceptable (as if my sole opinion mattered). If Purplebackpack89 had calmly, clearly, and respectfully communicated that history and process (and not taken questioning personally) no misunderstandings would have arisen for any of us here.
Quoting Purplebackpack89 about me; "he STILL doesn't get it" and "general lack of CLUE" - is so because his attempts were in a jargon I do not use or comprehend. No one is unintelligent here, just different dialects. Purplebackpack89 continues to misjudge, misinterpret, and misunderstand my intentions, words, and actions. Purplebackpack89 does not respond or initiate to discuss directly together, and they are free not to do. The last two Purplebackpack89 entries above had no notification to me, perhaps only a first one requires that? Nonetheless, since Purplebackpack89 has consistently chosen to not work this out together, I need some intervention and counsel here please. This conundrum is trivial in the scope of life and world issues. My goal is simple peaceful resolution. Thank you for any assistance with this.---Look2See1 (talk) 00:22, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
END: of My 2/29/2010 Reply On ANI Notice ISSUE PAGE.

{{helpme}} Section #1

{{helpme}} I do not understand the problem that began or process that established being in this 'admin-limbo.' Does one '< ! -- -- >' or 'delete' all it here and await admin. response? What is the "the {{tb}} template" please? (thank you)Look2See1 (talk) 17:49, 28 April 2010 (UTC) Hello Look2See1. You used the {{helpme}} tag but you did not post a question. Please write out your question and when you are done, place back the tag. I or someone else will be along to help. Alternatively, you can ask your question at the new contributors help desk, the help desk, or join the #wikipedia-en-help IRC help channel to get real-time assistance. Click here for instant access. }}

{{helpme}} Section #2

{{helpme}} Hello Look2See1. You used the {{helpme}} tag but you did not post a question. Please write out your question and when you are done, place back the tag. I or someone else will be along to help. Alternatively, you can ask your question at the new contributors help desk, the help desk, or join the #wikipedia-en-help IRC help channel to get real-time assistance. Click here for instant access. }}

See my comments above. --Darkwind (talk) 03:05, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

How is this resolved when the other party will not communicate after they set up this process?

Note, 'helpme' will get you help from any user - in this case, it happened to be me. To ask a specific person something, ie BWilkins, you don't need to use 'helpme' - just say your piece here (as you did), but - as a courtesy - it would be nice if you dropped a note on their talk page, to let them know you had added to the comment. You can do that with the {{tb}} template - just add a note on User talk:Bwilkins with "{{tb|Look2See1}} ~~~~".

(thank you)

The ANI was the sole place to continue the discussion once it was filed there. At that point, it is in Administrator's hands to deal with - if they feel they must. If not, then the two of you need to work out out article issues on the talkpage of that article, and nowhere else. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 17:05, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

{{helpme}}

Thank you BWilkins, the other party (User:Purplebackpack89) began post of issue on my talkpage instead of the article's one. Does one just delete it here? What do the tl and tlp acronyms mean, or (better) what wiki-section can I find answer in?--Look2See1 (talk) 17:24, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Another note: I am totally impartial on the actual issue - in fact, I have not even looked at the specifics - and for quite a good reason; by not doing so, I can offer mroe generic neutral advice;
When two users disagree about a suggested edit to a page, often it breaks down to two separate issues, which we deal with in different ways;
  • Regarding the content - Per WP:BOLD / WP:BRD, we encourage editors to be bold. Anyone should be able to add to articles. IF another user disagrees with their addition, then can remove it. At that stage, both parties need to stop, and discuss it on the talk page of the article - with anyone else who wishes to express an opinion. Very commonly, it helps to get other opinions, to form a consensus. Once a consensus has been established, the edit can be made.
  • Regarding any personal dispute - we have strict policies about this sort of thing; we specifically ask editors to stick to discussion of the content, not the other person. If users are not civil, etc, then appropriate warnings can be given, ultimately leading to a block. If, on the other hand, another user simply refuses to debate an issue, that's fine - up to them. If a consensus can be established, the edit can be made. If said user then removes the edit (against the consensus), similarly they can be warned/blocked etc.
  • If the other party will not enter discussions on the talk page that's fine - no problem. Seek input from others, for example on [[
I hope this helps to clarify the system a little; it does work, in the long-term - and fortunately, there is no deadline.
Thank you BWilkins for answering my {{helpme}} questions and needs. Your helpful information and links are very appreciated.--Look2See1 (talk) 00:33, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Re. their comments on your talk page, yes, you could remove them - however, I would recommend, instead, you simply reply something like "This is a content issue, so please discuss it on [[talk:WHATEVER-ARTICLE]] instead. In addition to that, feel free to archive any old discussions from your talk page. If you'd like help in setting up automatic archiving, give me a shout; once your talk page is set up to have archives, you can easily just chop stuff that you have dealt with from your talk, and put it into the archive page(s), to 'clear the decks' without worrying that people might accuse you of removing things.
For more help, you can either;
  • Leave a message on my own talk page; OR
  • Use a {{helpme}} - please create a new section at the end of your own talk page, put {{helpme}}, and ask your question - remember to 'sign' your name by putting ~~~~ at the end; OR
  • Talk to us live, with this or this.
The last of those is particularly useful - please try it; pop in now and say hello.  Chzz  ►  19:00, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

ANI Topic Notice to Purplebackpack89

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.---Look2See1 (talk) 01:02, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

When you don't understand something, you should ask someone to explain. Most regular editors on Wikipedia are willing to explain things when asked, or when they sense that something is off. "AGF" for instance, is short for "assume good faith" - you can read about it at WP:AGF. Folks here use such abbreviations and acronyms because they refer to Wikipedia's policies and practices which get discussed a lot, and using them makes things move along a little faster. But, really, if you don't understand, you gotta ask! You can't just write off what someone's saying to you because you don't understand it, you've got to make the effort to communicate, and give the other person the chance to express what they're saying in a clearer way. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:49, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
Beyond My Ken, I have, thats what all my requests for simple talk clarity have been, asking asking asking. enough triviality.Look2See1 t a l k → 02:51, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

S.F.V. Request + ANI Topic Page cont.......

Look2See1 t a l k → 19:52, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
"Uh ?" - please try to be clear and articulate in your communication. Please feel free to put it on your own page for reference, it belongs on mine as a personal reminder of a wiki-policy-link. Please consider removing me from your focus, our world has real issues needing our care. Thank you-Look2See1 t a l k → 22:24, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Dear User:Purplebackpack89, Please remember you initiated the " WP:ANI thread against (ME), accusing me of doing stuff wrong, " incorrectly calling my concerns vandalism. I merely responded afterwards. Your " concepts aren't clear, " your links are irrelevant to "WIKI-Avoid personal attacks Policy' is periodically not honored by User:Purplebackpack89 postings," and for my speaking group standards you are not "clear and articulate in your communication." Please note the 'Barnstar' above, some value my dialect and effort. Yours is not wrong, I'm just not comprehending you.
You seem to be angry, I'm sorry my initial actions - though well intentioned - contributed to that. Before the last 'namereq' I submitted that day I've been only polite and attempting accurate communication. Today I carefully posted 'Neutral Position' on namereq talkpages for Valley districts. Please consider not reacting in anger in this context and to me, we know you can, your talkpage has an award for your fine abilities and capacities to do so.
My own worldview concerns of global and humane issues needing care do not include " getting American neighborhoods to adopt " any nomenclature form, especially with wiki-struggles. " User:Purplebackpack89, Please consider removing me from your focus, our world has real issues needing our care ". Thank you-Look2See1 t a l k → 23:06, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Completed and DONE

I hereby resign from this issue. A mentor reviewed the communications and pointed out to me that neither party has had their communications mutually understood, both react to a negative phrase and miss the rest. So be it - no blame on either. I need to go and help with the Gulf oil spill situation. This now is a ridiculous non-issue here. [User:Purplebackpack89]], drop it, do not expect further communication with me. I dismiss the '((vandal)) report-admin request' I posted here (whatever your correct jargon may be). To Admin. persons, I will certainly listen and respond to your inquires or advice. ---Look2See1 t a l k → 02:39, 1 May 2010 (UTC) - (Copied & pasted from my post on Admin ANI page)
ARCHIVED AND DONE.----Look2See1 t a l k → 02:51, 1 May 2010 (UTC)


Final Archiving

S.F.V. Request + ANI Topic Page

Look2See1 t a l k → 19:52, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Dear User:Purplebackpack89, You seem to be angry, I'm sorry my initial actions - though well intentioned - contributed to that. Before the last 'namereq' I submitted that day I've been only polite and attempting accurate communication. Today I carefully posted 'Neutral Position' on namereq talkpages for Valley districts. Please consider not reacting in anger in this context and to me, we know you can, your talkpage has an award for your fine abilities and capacities to do so.
My own worldview concerns of global and humane issues needing care do not include " getting American neighborhoods to adopt " any nomenclature form, especially with wiki-struggles. " User:Purplebackpack89, Please consider removing me from your focus, our world has real issues needing our care ". Thank you-Look2See1 t a l k → 23:06, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
FINAL ARCHIVE OF TOPIC - DONE.----Look2See1 t a l k → 23:41, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Junípero Serra

Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute to the encyclopedia, but when you add or change content, as you did to the article Junípero Serra, please cite a reliable source for the content of your edit. This is particularly important when adding or changing any facts or figures and helps maintain our policy of verifiability. Take a look at Wikipedia:Citing sources for information about how to cite sources and the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you.--Morenooso (talk) 03:04, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for reminder, was just [[ ]] some existing words for links and 'drifted off' into editing. Will take more care hereon.--Look2See1 (talk) 17:14, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Robert Allerton Park & Allerton Estate

Thanks for your changes to the Robert Allerton Park article. Bigturtle (talk) 14:56, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome! Thank you for creating Robert Allerton Park article. It fills in sparse book info sources on the two Allertons' work in Illinois.--Look2See1 (talk) 17:33, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

{{helpme}} New color sig.

  • {{helpme}} color signature setup ==

Re: direct to help for my setting up a color signature (as  Chzz  ►  used above)Look2See1 (talk) 20:14, 28 April 2010 (UTC) Re: direct to help for my setting up a color signature (as  Chzz  ►  used above)Look2See1 (talk) 20:14, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Please see User:Chzz/help/sig. It is easy to mess up, so please test any new sig by making a test page, e.g. User:Look2See1/sigtest. If you need help with it...you know where to find us. Also feel free to use the live-help facility. Cheers,  Chzz  ►  20:31, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
New One: Look2See1t a l k → ( & now how to Include Date-Time... ? )
test#11:33 ---Look2See1 t a l k ►  06:37, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
test#11:40 ---Look2See1 t a l k-► 06:40, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
test#11:44 ---Look2See1 t a l k 06:42, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
test#11:46 ---Look2See1 t a l k ? 06:44, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
test#11:49 ---Look2See1 t a l k ? 06:46, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
test#11:50 ---Look2See1 t a l k ? 06:47, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Reply

I have replied - see User talk:Chzz#Sarah Monahan. (deliberately not using a 'talkback' here to avoid confusion!)  Chzz  ►  20:25, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Reply to 'overlap' thing

Hi. Yes, I was editing your page as you wrote on mine; I was adding the stuff about archiving, and about sandboxes, etc. - as, when I read back, I noticed the other things you had asked.

I think that now, I have probably answered all the bits and pieces above; if I have missed anything, let me know...leave a note here and 'tb' me again, or, use the live talk - which is good for stuff like this!  Chzz  ►  01:37, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh - re. date/time on sig - are you definitely signing with FOUR tildes? It should always append the date/time if you do. Three will not show the date/time.  Chzz  ►  01:39, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi Chzz, tried live talk link, saw your active page but couldn't see place to enter !helper or any text. Sorry so slow with this.
1. entered color sig. in preferences. Wouldn't take 'exactly as is' checkbox & as below shows doesn't work yet. I do use four tildes (except when only thought I did...).
2. Thank you for setting up archive ! Wonderful ! Is a low-tech way to keep things on front talk page to put <!-- --> around date/time?
3. Set up subpage header, again thanks so much for code. I've read subpages info on wikiguides but can't figure out how to create new sub-folder (last topic on my talkpage shows one attempt)
4. Your generous efforts and kind patience with all my 'tecno bits and pieces' here renews hope and perseverance with wikipedia. With yesterday's 'editor & admin. page stuff' it seemed hopeless & felt like quitting wiki-editing was the healthiest choice. No more, my efforts are small but will keep on, in great part to the 'what was and manner how' of things learned from you. Thanks.--(before rvt. pref. page)--Look2See1t a l k → (talk) 02:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)--

---Look2See1 (talk) 02:29, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

1. Live help - type in the white bit at the bottom - please give it another go

2. Yes, that will work

3. To create a new subfolder, the easiest way is, make a link to it somewhere (such as here) - put it in brackets, so e.g. [[User:Look2See1/foo]] - if I write that here, without the nowiki, it'll be a redlink - User:Look2See1/foo. If you click that and make it, it will then show up in that 'flashy drop-down' thingy above.

4. Glad you've decided to stick with it; it is quite a steep learning curve, but you have already passed the apex. Just ask for help - that's what we're here for, we all help each other. Cheers,  Chzz  ►  02:44, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

{{helpme}} Refs

Ref help stuff (feel free to move this)  Chzz  ►  05:09, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

  • copy + paste moved to Ref. subfolder - 4/29/2010.

Archives & Talk Page Section

Hi, glad to hear it is going OK.

Just a quick note, to say that the replies on my talk page have now been archived - mine gets busy, so things often are. You can find them in User_talk:Chzz/Archive_21#Look2See1, but please don't reply there, for anything new start a new section on my talk page. Cheers,  Chzz  ►  10:54, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

pasted here in full---Look2See1 t a l k → 18:10, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

WELCOME to Wikipedia — ( Help )

Welcome!

Hello, Look2See1, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! Melburnian (talk)

( Help ) — CATEGORIES

( Help ) — Section #1

{{helpme}} I do not understand the problem that began or process that established being in this 'admin-limbo.' Does one '< ! -- -- >' or 'delete' all it here and await admin. response? What is the "the {{tb}} template" please? (thank you)Look2See1 (talk) 17:49, 28 April 2010 (UTC) <!----(4/29/2010)----{{tmbox | type = style | image = [[File:Help-browser.svg|60px]] | text = ---->Hello Look2See1. You used the {{helpme}} tag but you did not post a question. Please write out your question and when you are done, place back the tag. I or someone else will be along to help. Alternatively, you can ask your question at the new contributors help desk, the help desk, or join the #wikipedia-en-help IRC help channel to get real-time assistance. Click here for instant access. }}

( Help ) — Section #2

{{helpme}} Hello Look2See1. You used the {{helpme}} tag but you did not post a question. Please write out your question and when you are done, place back the tag. I or someone else will be along to help. Alternatively, you can ask your question at the new contributors help desk, the help desk, or join the #wikipedia-en-help IRC help channel to get real-time assistance. Click here for instant access. }}

See my comments above. --Darkwind (talk) 03:05, 28 April 2010 (UTC)


Note, 'helpme' will get you help from any user - in this case, it happened to be me. To ask a specific person something, ie BWilkins, you don't need to use 'helpme' - just say your piece here (as you did), but - as a courtesy - it would be nice if you dropped a note on their talk page, to let them know you had added to the comment. You can do that with the {{tb}} template - just add a note on User talk:Bwilkins with "{{tb|Look2See1}} ~~~~".
When two users disagree about a suggested edit to a page, often it breaks down to two separate issues, which we deal with in different ways;
  • Regarding the content - Per WP:BOLD / WP:BRD, we encourage editors to be bold. Anyone should be able to add to articles. IF another user disagrees with their addition, then can remove it. At that stage, both parties need to stop, and discuss it on the talk page of the article - with anyone else who wishes to express an opinion. Very commonly, it helps to get other opinions, to form a consensus. Once a consensus has been established, the edit can be made.
  • Regarding any personal dispute - we have strict policies about this sort of thing; we specifically ask editors to stick to discussion of the content, not the other person. If users are not civil, etc, then appropriate warnings can be given, ultimately leading to a block. If, on the other hand, another user simply refuses to debate an issue, that's fine - up to them. If a consensus can be established, the edit can be made. If said user then removes the edit (against the consensus), similarly they can be warned/blocked etc.
  • If the other party will not enter discussions on the talk page that's fine - no problem. Seek input from others.
I hope this helps to clarify the system a little; it does work, in the long-term - and fortunately, there is no deadline.User:BWilkins
Thank you User:BWilkins for answering my {{helpme}} questions and needs. Your helpful information and links are very appreciated.--Look2See1 (talk) 00:33, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Re. their comments on your talk page, yes, you could remove them - however, I would recommend, instead, you simply reply something like "This is a content issue, so please discuss it on [[talk:WHATEVER-ARTICLE]] instead. In addition to that, feel free to archive any old discussions from your talk page. If you'd like help in setting up automatic archiving, give me a shout; once your talk page is set up to have archives, you can easily just chop stuff that you have dealt with from your talk, and put it into the archive page(s), to 'clear the decks' without worrying that people might accuse you of removing things.
For more help, you can either;
  • Leave a message on my own talk page; OR
  • Use a {{helpme}} - please create a new section at the end of your own talk page, put {{helpme}}, and ask your question - remember to 'sign' your name by putting ~~~~ at the end; OR
  • Talk to us live, with this or this.
The last of those is particularly useful - please try it; pop in now and say hello.  Chzz  ►  19:00, 28 April 2010 (UTC)


( Help ) — tn/tlp Use Guidelines

Re. "What do the tl and tlp acronyms mean"

(moved this to a separate section, to avoid it being lost in the midst of all the other stuff)

There are several templates to allow you to 'cancel out' a template. If you put e.g. {{helpme}} here on this page, it will be 'live', and will alert helpers. When they process the request, they will change it to {{tn|helpme}} or {{tlp|helpme}} etc, to 'cancel it' - instead of then showing the large box "I am looking for help" etc, it will show like e.g. {{helpme}}.

I believe that 'tn' stands for 'template null'; 'tl' stands for 'template link' because it gives a link to the templates page of documentation.

'Tlp' is 'template link with parameters';

If somebody writes "{{helpme|How do I sign my name?}}" and, after helping them, it is changed to "{{tn|helpme|How do I sign my name?}}" it will only display as {{helpme}}|How do I sign my name? - the 'parameter' they used (viz. their question) will not display.

If, however, it is changed to "{{tlp|helpme|How do I sign my name?}}" it will display the 'parameter', ie {{helpme|How do I sign my name?}}.

I hope this clarifies.  Chzz  ►  19:09, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you User:Chzz, This helps a lot and will keep it elsewhere also for reference. You previously mentioned archiving setup, would you be able to help or direct to help for my setting that up? ( &iquest also for nifty color signature...? ) Appreciate your NPOV on admin. issues, fosters learning the tools and templates focus. Will try the {{tb|Look2See1}} on your talkpage. Thanks again--Look2See1 (talk) 19:38, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

( Help ) — Archive setup

{{helpme}} Re: archiving setup, help with or direct to help for my setting up my talkpage Archive please.Look2See1 (talk) 20:14, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

First, you must decide between User:ClueBot III and User:MiszaBot III. (The only major difference that I know of is that ClueBot runs continuously, while MiszaBot runs once a day.) Once you decide on one of the 'bots, you should go to its userpage, where both list directions on how to set up and configure archiving. Good luck. Xenon54 / talk / 20:26, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Probably the easiest solution to this is, if I simply set your page up to auto-archive for you, after a certain time - such as 7 days, 200 hours, or whatever you like - and add a box at the top to access the archives.
If you'd like me to do that, please just confirm it below, and tell me what duration you'd like me to use.
The 'code' to set it up is a little bit fiddly; for almost every 'help request' I try to explain what I'm doing to the user rather than simply doing it - but in the case of the 1-off archiving stuff, it's easier just to do it for you. Let me know below; no need for a further 'helpme' - I will check back here.  Chzz  ►  20:31, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi Chzz; wrote a Yes please response here promptly earlier but forgot to save it. So yes, your use of a little bit fiddly takes it out of this Luddite's reach. Can it be set up for 'as needed' archiving? My volume is (until last 2 days) light, and keeping 'positive' ones here does encourage efforts. If too difficult to set up then once a week auto-archive is very fine. If that is best route for you can I later copy + Paste 'supportive ones' on front page? If you are up for another question.... below is new color signature - how does one get the auto-time/date working again please? Thank you for such patient help.--Look2See1 (talk) 01:16, 29 April 2010 (UTC) (Look2See1t a l k →)
Now added; you'll see the block of code now at the top of this page. I set it to 30 days, which you can change - note the parameter |algo = old(30d) - feel free to change that, but be careful changing anything else 'coz it is quite picky.
It should kick in within 24 hours, you don't need to do anything else - and in fact, it's best to wait a day and let it 'do its thing'.
Worth noting, it will not archive very short threads, or anything that does not have a timestamp in it.
You can, of course, 'manually' archive things too, by simply cutting them from this page and posting them to the current archive. you have any trouble with it, give me a shout. Cheers,  Chzz  ►  01:19, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
And now I read the above more properly, I'll change it to 7 days.  Chzz  ►  01:21, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Re. sig, date/time should automatically be added, once you use it within your 'signature' in preferences.
Re. keeping some stuff that you don't want archiving - with the automatic thing; if you really wanted, you could copy it back again and remove the timestamps - otherwise, you could just keep a link to that section of your archive, or put the 'useful stuff' into a user subpage, e.g. User:Look2See1/useful stuff. You can have as many user subpages as you like...and indeed you can view all of them with a flashy bit of code that you might want to add to the top of this page, or your user page, or something;
{{Collapse top|Subpages for this user}}
<div>Subpages for this user:{{Special:Prefixindex/User:User:Look2See1/}}{{Special:Prefixindex/User talk:User:Look2See1/}}</div>
{{Collapse bottom}}
Subpages for this user
Subpages for this user:
 Chzz  ►  01:27, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

( Help ) — color signature setup

Re: direct to help for my setting up a color signature (as  Chzz  ►  used above)Look2See1 (talk) 20:14, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Please see User:Chzz/help/sig. It is easy to mess up, so please test any new sig by making a test page, e.g. User:Look2See1/sigtest. If you need help with it...you know where to find us. Also feel free to use the live-help facility. Cheers,  Chzz  ►  20:31, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
New One: Look2See1t a l k → ( & now how to Include Date-Time... ? )
test#11:46 ---Look2See1 t a l k ? 06:44, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

( Help ) — Reply

Hi.

I think that now, I have probably answered all the bits and pieces above; if I have missed anything, let me know...leave a note here and 'tb' me again, or, use the live talk - which is good for stuff like this!  Chzz  ►  01:37, 29 April 2010 (UTC)


  • Chzz Reply:

1. Live help - type in the white bit at the bottom - please give it another go

2. Yes, that will work

3. To create a new subfolder, the easiest way is, make a link to it somewhere (such as here) - put it in brackets, so e.g. [[User:Look2See1/foo]] - if I write that here, without the nowiki, it'll be a redlink - User:Look2See1/foo. If you click that and make it, it will then show up in that 'flashy drop-down' thingy above.

4. Glad you've decided to stick with it; it is quite a steep learning curve, but you have already passed the apex. Just ask for help - that's what we're here for, we all help each other. Cheers,  Chzz  ►  02:44, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

( Help ) — SUBFOLDER: setup help

create User:Look2See1/useful stuff SUBFOLDER. (copy & paste onto 'New Section' page of Subfolders, will be red, click on it, on new talk page add a word & save = new Subfolder with new title----Look2See1 t a l k → 19:18, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

( Help ) — REFERENCES

Ref help stuff (feel free to move this)  Chzz  ►  05:09, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Barnstar

The Minor Barnstar
Not 'minor' as in small, but 'minor' for all the subtle things, which are so critical to improving Wikipedia. This is to say thanks for all your great gnome-work! And it was nice talking to you, too. You know where we are; see you soon, I hope.  Chzz  ►  04:59, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
  • (copy & pasted at top of page & date disabled there to not auto-archive)---Look2See1 t a l k → 19:52, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Archives & Talk Page Section — ( Help )

Hi, glad to hear it is going OK.

Just a quick note, to say that the replies on my talk page have now been archived - mine gets busy, so things often are. You can find them in User_talk:Chzz/Archive_21#Look2See1, but please don't reply there, for anything new start a new section on my talk page. Cheers,  Chzz  ►  10:54, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Mono Lake Paiute

Hi, thanks for trying to sort the Paiute/Mono nomenclature, Mono Lake Paiute. I have tried to pair the historical/archaic term "Mono Lake Paiute" with a contemporary tribe, particularly in the instance of turn of the century basketweavers, Lucy Telles, Carrie Bethel, and Nellie Charlie. Would it be most accurate to describe them as being part of the Mono tribe or is there a better term to use? Thanks, -Uyvsdi (talk) 04:11, 12 April 2010 (UTC)Uyvsdi

The classic notion of "tribe" is very loose among the Great Basin groups. The distribution of "language" is much more clear than the extent of some tribal label or other. The Mono language was spoken in the region around Mono Lake, so that made the groups living around Mono Lake "Mono", specifically "Eastern Mono", although they might call themselves something else. (Taivo (talk) 04:20, 12 April 2010 (UTC))
Hi Uyvsdi, Good questions. I'm learning as I go on this, as much from mistakes as discoveries. So, at this moment... it seems the Mono language might be different enough, as classified in Uto-Aztecan languages article, to be 'just Mono tribe' without Paiute... and so artistic attributions could follow that model ?
Applying the Western-Eastern Mono distinction seems harder as Carrie Bethel and Nellie Charlie were from 'Eastern-region' Lee Vining but were (?) active in 'Western-region' National Park ? The Native American 'Mono' human beings-tribes post-contact seem even less definable, here as well as in many other Californian regions - from colonization reductions-gold rush dislocation-reservation combinations-et al. Perhaps for historical art and linguistics the contemporary tribal names are not the most clarifying or in this context only, useful. Just my thoughts, with no deep research work or academic certification. Thanks for introducing the three basketweaver artists to me, wonderful.---Look2See1 (talk) 06:05, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
  • I'll ask the California Indian Basketweavers Association what they think. Thanks for responding and happy editing! -Uyvsdi (talk) 00:58, 29 April 2010 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Robert Allerton Park & Allerton Estate

Thanks for your changes to the Robert Allerton Park article. Bigturtle (talk) 14:56, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome! Thank you for creating Robert Allerton Park article. It fills in sparse book info sources on the two Allertons' work in Illinois.--Look2See1 (talk) 17:33, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Fauna by state categories

Hi, I just noticed you created and populated Category:Fauna of California. There have been numerous community decisions at Categories for Discussion not to keep such categories (e.g., here), because it just creates a big mess on species articles to have unrestricted categorization of their distribution within subnational entities such as states, and such small slivers of an animal's distribution are better handled by list articles. Articles such as the brown rat otherwise would end up in hundreds of categories. This is why all the existing categories were drawn narrowly (Lists of fauna of California, Endemic fauna of California), or described broader geographic regions that actually correlated to different fauna and environments and are not limited to states (Category:Fauna of the Lower Colorado River Valley, Category:Fauna of the Sonoran Desert). Most of what you have populated Category:Fauna of California with are just list articles that are already in the "lists of fauna" category and so their presence in an unrestricted category is redundant, and all of it was already otherwise properly categorized (including by its relationship with California). So given all of that (primarily the fact that it's a recreation of deleted material), I'm going to depopulate it and speedy delete it. postdlf (talk) 23:20, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Category:Fauna of California - closed category consensus
Hi Postdlf, just read your message - 1. Sorry ! 2. Promptly stopped adds to "Category:Fauna of California." I now understand that I plowed into a topic previously well discussed and decided upon. What happened; I was trying to find some Calif. desert info, had difficulty as it wasn't in list form/title so not in the "Category:Lists of fauna of California" options. When found articles of a list but not titled as such, it seemed inappropriate to add them to the 'list of lists' category, - is that ok occasionally? I'm in botany so the Calif. article finding/access is a bit different (not better) for the flora. I'm so sorry to have caused you a batch of revert work. Thank you for keeping a system that works monitored. Best----Look2See1 t a l k → 23:35, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for understanding! You're right that not all articles that are lists in substance are titled as lists. Fishes of Sespe Creek, California is pretty clearly a list, and even when fully fleshed out will be nothing but an annotated list. When categorizing, it's better to weigh the content of the article more heavily than the title, and it's possible that many articles should be renamed to better match their content. Cheers, postdlf (talk) 14:21, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit summary

Look2See1, when you make an edit, as you did to Renaissance Architecture, could you please leave an edit summary. That page is frequently vandalised. Amandajm (talk) 10:07, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I will eave an edit summary if doing any future editing on article. Was unaware of its vandalism problem, and sorry Renaissance Architecture is a target. Thanks for your message.----Look2See1 t a l k → 06:26, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Vaccinium parvifolium

Hi Look2See1; I'm not sure why you made the edit to the growth section of Vaccinium parvifolium. To my way of thinking, it is more difficult to verify and maintain with the English units since reliable sources use metric. To me, they seem out of place in an article on botany and not consistent with WP:MOS and WP:TOL. You degraded the formatting of the heading and left a template with no context. Finally, you introduced an extraneous right bracket.[2] Best wishes, Walter Siegmund (talk) 04:38, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Limnology, etc...?

Hi there,

I'm confused by edit summaries here where you mention limnology (an unrelated topic), but this has nothing to do with your edit. Also, here you make some big mistakes with terminology and here you make many more. I have made changes to these and several other articles that you have recently edited. While I do appreciate your willingness to contribute, please be more cautious to be correct in the future so someone doesn't have to come along and fix things after you or (worse) no one fixes them and incorrect things are on WP. Do feel free to ask at my talk if you have questions about hydrology/geomorphology/etc. Awickert (talk) 02:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi Awickert, thanks for letting me know of mis-connections. Have stopped and want to understand accurately. All my (mis)-efforts started with riparian zone 'issues' as a landscape architect - conservationist (ie: Los Angeles River challenges) trying to inner-link to headwater - watershed - water basin - river bed - river bank - etc. terms/article titles. Was a bit hard to find all of them, and then Euro-N. America differences-confusion entered, and well..... over category cross referenced aplenty, per your message. I'm so sorry for your revert work needed now. Is there a 'non-scientific nomenclature' category for non-specialist people to have a common search location, such as Category:Water and the environment, that would not be misleading or offensive ? I apologize for stepping on limnological and hydrologic toes, let alone all the other categorical ones pasted in, and respect your expertise. Thank you ! ----Look2See1 t a l k → 03:22, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
P.S. Please do feel free to slap me with your talk page's Trout..... Looking at the List of watershed topics article, could that one possibly have a plethora, or just a few, of North American & European category links at bottom ? Would never have found it through its singular Category:Water divides. Did realize my huge mistake with Limnology, so its the study of limericks..... gotta go to change every one of its links to Category:Vernacular poetry....Cheers----Look2See1 t a l k → 03:41, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
I hope that you're kidding about the limnology bit, or we'll be at it again!
I see your predicament. I will check the categories you've created and the discussion at your talk first, so I can give you an informed response. Awickert (talk) 03:46, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
All of those that you list here could go in a new category called "fluvial geomorphology" that would be a subcategory of "geomorphology" and other relevant things. This is the field of the shape of rivers and the landscape as carved by rivers. Does this sound like what you want? Awickert (talk) 03:52, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Your edit to Natural environment

Hi, I just reverted your good-faith edit because I felt that the two categories you added didn't fit the article's subject matter. As an article about natural environments, environmental design didn't seem relevant, and since the article's focus is not on environmental conservation (in fact it barely makes reference to it), the Conservation category didn't seem to be appropriate either. If you believe that these categories are relevant to the article, please discuss their inclusion in the article on the Talk:Natural environment before readding them. Thanks. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 08:01, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Categorizing pages wiki-info guides links

Hi Look2See1; Please review Wikipedia:Categorization#Categorizing_pages. "Pages are not placed directly into every possible category, only into the most specific one in any branch. This means that if a page belongs to a subcategory of C (or a subcategory of a subcategory of C, and so on) then it is not normally placed directly into C. For exceptions to this rule, see Eponymous categories and Non-diffusing subcategories below." A grass should not be placed both in Category:Grasslands of California and Category:Native grasses of California because the latter is a subcategory of the former. Exceptions exist but do not apply here.[3] Best wishes, Walter Siegmund (talk) 16:47, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you Wsiegmund for clarifying here and via the wiki-link about 'category' use. Probably got a excessive as was finally finding 'important articles' not linked to existing (usually of design, horticulture, &/or native habitat et al) categories long ago found and used. Will stop adding new botany ones until really understand this better. Sorry for category over-connecting, and 'Huckleberry' info reformat also. Thanks----Look2See1 t a l k → 18:59, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Hi; Just thinking a bit more and realize a question ? My education-career bridges (native plant-habitat restoration) Botany and (design-plant horticulture) Landscape Architecture. How to get the 'flora-botany' articles accessible-findable to the 'landscaper-gardener-interested public' ?
For example: I have learned Melica spp. and Melica imperfecta as a great native California bunch grass - findable in Category:Flora of California or Category:Poaceae - to use instead of the invasive exotic Nassella sp. 'Mexican Feather Grass' in sensitive Wildland-urban interfaces - but Melica was not findable in the Category:Horticulture and gardening's sub-categories (until put in Category:Grasses). Many 'gardening peers' are not facile in flora/biome/ecoregion/plant community/habitat organization/genera... systems and searching nomenclature, but can find Category:Garden plants or List of garden plants or even List of plants by common name. My Huckleberry mess-up was an attempt to bridge; with no judgements, for many landscapers wouldn't know to use Vaccinium or (Flora of Calif./Oregon).
So question; what is most minimal way to maintain 'flora elegance' with a usable connection to horticulture for 'less common but in horticultural use native (& other) plants' ? Perhaps Oxalis oregana (Redwood sorrel) is a 'test case,' currently in (Category:Garden plants) & (Category:Flora of Calif./Oregon). Would a new category template of something like (Category:Native garden plants of each state's name) as a subcategory only seen within (Category:Garden plants) be a solution?
Rambled on, sorry. Very receptive to thoughts-ideas on issue (or non-issue declaration). Thanks,----Look2See1 t a l k → 18:59, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You are welcome. Wikipedia encourages edits of the sort you've made. They are a part of learning to edit and it is easy to correct errors. I don't use categories in the way that you do so I can't be of much help. Please see WP:OC to learn which categories should NOT be created. Wikipedia:Overcategorization#Intersection_by_location says, "avoid subcategorizing subjects by geographical boundary if that boundary does not have any relevant bearing on the subjects' other characteristics." Also, please see Wikipedia:Tools#Searching for additional ways of searching. I think there may be ways to search on category intersections and the like; please see Wikipedia:Category intersection. I suggest that you post your query at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of life. Walter Siegmund (talk) 21:30, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Also, in edits like this and this one needs to remove Category:Kern County, California because Category:Parks in Kern County, California is in the former (as of your edit to those pages, they would have been "double categorized" in "Kern County, California"). It would be nice if you could double check your Special:MyContributions during that period to make sure you didn't make the same mistake on other articles. Thanks. Killiondude (talk) 05:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi Killiondude, thanks for reminding me to remove general Kern County tags, was waiting until transferred all articles to Kern - Parks to not "lose" any, and then attention went to some desert articles.... oops. Best---Look2See1 t a l k → 06:27, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Sock stuff

Please don't add sock puppetry accusations to article talk pages. Not the place for such discussions - please self revert those additions. File a sock report instead. Vsmith (talk) 20:54, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank you Vsmith, received your message, will rvt note on articles. Have read wiki-info on sockpuppet reports and definitions and do not understand how to file a report. It was why notification was put in articles, in good faith alert for other editors expressing problems with editor of those #s. Never experienced this problem before, and sorry for misdirected effort. Thanks again, ---Look2See1 t a l k → 21:06, 15 June 2010 (UTC)


Ex-Map de San Fernando

Sounds right but I don't know. The Thomas Guide seems to have fairly accurate Rancho boundaries (or have you already looked there). The USGS topomaps are often useful (http://msrmaps.com/Default.aspx) but less so in urban areas like the SFV. Go for it. Emargie (talk) 18:36, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the edit on the recent merge, will help
--George2001hi (talk) 19:13, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

"Redwood National and State Parks" Category Issue

"Redwood National and State Parks" is a VERY specific name for only REDWOOD NATIONAL PARK and the three state parks (Prarie Creek, Del Norte Coast, and Jedediah Smith) that are located adjacent to (actually touching) Redwood National Park. As a result of this fact, I have adjusted your Good Faith edits to correct the confusion before it goes any further. The RNSP Cat. now has the articles that related to the specific area that the four parks cover. The category was in error listing any parks beyond those three State parks in addition to RNP and would have served only to confuse readers. No other parks are included in the historic management compact that exists in between only the three listed state parks and Redwood National Park. Disagree? See Redwood National and State Parks Visitor Guide: National or State Park? section AND [4] or Call Redwood National Park Headquarters in Crescent City, CA... Norcalal (talk) 11:11, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Sock puppetry stuff

Please don't add sock puppetry accusations to article talk pages. Not the place for such discussions - please self revert those additions. File a sock report instead. Vsmith (talk) 20:54, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank you Vsmith, received your message, have rvt note on all articles. Had read wiki-info on "sockpuppet reports and definitions" and do not understand how to file a report yet, & was why notification was (incorrectly) put in articles in good faith alert for other editors expressing same problems with same "sockpuppet editor" using those various IP#s. Never experienced this problem before, and am sorry for misdirected effort - now corrected. Thanks again,---(pasted copy here)---Look2See1 t a l k → 21:06, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Ex-Map de San Fernando

Sounds right but I don't know. The Thomas Guide seems to have fairly accurate Rancho boundaries (or have you already looked there). The USGS topomaps are often useful (http://msrmaps.com/Default.aspx) but less so in urban areas like the SFV. Go for it. Emargie (talk) 18:36, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Categorizing pages & wiki-info guide links

Hi Look2See1; Please review Wikipedia:Categorization#Categorizing_pages. "Pages are not placed directly into every category, only into the most specific ones. This means that if a page belongs to a subcategory of C (or a subcategory of a subcategory of C, and so on) then it is not normally placed directly into C. For exceptions to this rule, see Eponymous categories and Non-diffusing subcategories below." Exceptions exist but do not apply here. [5] Best wishes, Walter Siegmund (talk) 16:47, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you Wsiegmund for clarifying here and via the wiki-link about 'category' use.---(pasted copy here))---Look2See1 t a l k → 18:59, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Hi; Just thinking a bit more and realize a question ? My education-career bridges Botany (native plant-habitat restoration) and Landscape Architecture (design-plant horticulture): How does one have the "flora-botany" articles to be findable & accessible to the "non-botanist" but "landscape designer-gardener-interested public" readers ?
For example: Melica article was findable in Category:Flora of California or Category:Poaceae - but was not findable in Category:Horticulture and gardening's sub-categories, until put in Category:Grasses). Many 'gardening peers' are not facile in flora/biome/ecoregion/plant community/habitat/ or /Genus & species nomenclature searching terms, but do find Category:Garden plants.---(pasted copy here)---19:19, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You are welcome. Wikipedia encourages edits of the sort you've made. They are a part of learning to edit and it is easy to correct errors. I don't use categories in the way that you do so I can't be of much help. Please see WP:OC to learn which categories should NOT be created. Wikipedia:Overcategorization#Intersection_by_location says, "avoid subcategorizing subjects by geographical boundary if that boundary does not have any relevant bearing on the subjects' other characteristics." Also, please see Wikipedia:Tools#Searching for additional ways of searching. I think there may be ways to search on category intersections and the like; please see Wikipedia:Category intersection. I suggest that you post your query at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of life. Walter Siegmund (talk) 21:30, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Also, in edits like [this one needs to remove Category:Kern County, California because Category:Parks in Kern County, California is in the former (as of your edit to those pages, they would have been "double categorized" in "Kern County, California"); you can double check your Special:MyContributions to make sure not duplicated. Thanks. Killiondude (talk) 05:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
Hi Killiondude, thanks for reminder, am waiting until have "transferred" all articles to Category:Parks in Kern County, California to not "lose" any. Best---(pasted copy here)---Look2See1 t a l k → 06:27, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Nancy Holt apologies

Apologies there was no wiki link for Nancy Holt so I assumed incorrectly there was no article. Linked now cheers TeapotgeorgeTalk 09:05, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks; Correction to consonant chart - Ventureño

Thanks very much for cleaning up the citations and for adding the diacritics indicating glottalization to the Ventureño language article. May I ask that you please remake separate columns for palatal and post-alveolar places of articulation? Every Chumashist (including myself) treats the places of articulation as non-interchangeable. I've been studying the language over 5 years now at a major research university, and I agree with the other Chumashists: different columns.

I'll apologize in advance if this seems overly-detailed, but it is important to accurately represent the language. And I do appreciate all the help in cleaning things up and making the article look just spectacular. I would like to include orthographic symbols next to the IPA characters, and would very much welcome help with that.

Alaquwel (talk) 11:18, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Alaquwel, thanks for posting appreciation for "Correction to consonant chart - Ventureño language" on my talk page, however all I did was fix the broken link to Chumash people. Another editor deserves your kind attention much more. Thanks---(pasted copy here)---Look2See1 t a l k → 22:34, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Category issue + Clarity

I've noticed you adding a lot of new categories to Native American articles. Many of your additions are redundant, as they are already subcats of categories already in these articles. Please investigate a little more thoroughly before making such additions again, as I am removing or reverting any that I notice that are redundant. Heiro 20:48, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Heironymous Rowe, Will see what you find redundant in Category:Native American topics etc.; concern is for "lost articles" only findable by "experts" knowing nomenclature and how to navigate "technical category hierarchies". Can see it's better to err on less cat. linking though. Thanks for your clarity efforts.---(pasted copy here)---Look2See1 t a l k → 21:51, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Low-flow irrigation systems [ & Thanks ]

I was happy to see this article grow so much after such a long drought! Andrew Gradman talk/WP:Hornbook 06:42, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

PS What source is this all from? Andrew Gradman talk/WP:Hornbook 06:43, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi Andrew Gradman, Thanks for your message, and your getting a great topic going with your article. Today's edit was just putting some new-expanded info in from a lot of experience with topic. Know that's not good enough for wiki; and certainly have phase 2 etc. to get verifiable citations "re-found in my library" & in the article, and some non-commercial ext. links too.
Am so appreciative for your work on this environmentally important topic-resource site ! cheers---[User:Look2See1|Look2See1]] t a l k → 06:53, 13 July 2010 (UTC)-----(pasted in copy)----Look2See1 t a l k → 19:11, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Bird

Hi Look2See1: You've ruffled some feathers with this category addition to the Bird article — it's your "per admin approval" assertion that's drawing the most comments. You might wish to weigh in on the Talk:Bird page to explain! MeegsC | Talk 03:16, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi MeegsC, sorry my brevity with saying "per admin. approval" wasn't clear - I meant "awaiting an admin. review and approval to stay" - 'said' with respect that it is a secured article. Seems the opposite interpretation was made. Sorry----[paste-in copy]---Look2See1 t a l k → 03:51, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
to Bird-talk page
Hi, very sorry my brevity with saying "per admin. approval" wasn't clear ! - I meant "awaiting an admin. review and approval for it to stay" - said respecting that it is a protected article. Seems the opposite interpretation was made. Sorry !
With the Biological pest control component, many regular & organic gardening & organic farming gardeners-farmers create hedgerows and plantings with 'inviting vegetative food habitat plants' to encourage birds to be present and also dine on pest insects such as aphids. Bat houses are installed especially for mosquito reduction-control. I will place that info in the biological pest control article. There are magazine-phamphlet articles & books on 'plants for birds' from arboretums, native plant societies, and horticulture-sustainable agriculture presses aimed for horticulture audience. Until there is a specific "birds & bugs" article could this one be a marker-reminder for the landscape-farmer folk for now, while understanding it's a big reach for ornithologists to bear? Again, very sorry for the initial "<---note's unclarity -->" Best----[paste-in copy]---Look2See1 t a l k → 04:33, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
You might want to put that explanation onto the Talk:Bird page, where the discussion is occurring; I'm not the one questioning the category — I just noticed that no-one appeared to have contacted you directly to ask about it, and I wasn't sure that the Bird article would be on your watch list, given your wide-ranging interests. MeegsC | Talk 03:55, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi MeegsC, Thanks for your two notes, you were right, I would have missed issue-discussion. Have posted a response there between these notes to you. Best----[paste-in copy]---Look2See1 t a l k → 04:33, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
Sounds good to me - thanks for explaining, and sorry for the confusion. I had assumed you would probably have a good explanation, having glanced at the excellent contributions you usually make. Apologies if that didn't come across in my earlier post. I've taken out the HTML comment - you don't need any approval - it's only semi-protected. Autoconfirmed users are perfectly entitled to edit this normally. :)  Begoontalk 04:24, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
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