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Nomination of Fulcrum (magazine) for deletion

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A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Fulcrum (magazine) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fulcrum (magazine) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Hahc21 [TALK][CONTRIBS] 16:54, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Putting a fast response here for ease of finding before logging off at work. The article looks much better, and I am glad you have spoken up at the AfD. However: the connections to Archithese and The Ship are not clear from where the links take one. You need to find a way to explain/show explicitly (maybe by quoting from one issue of The Ship; maybe by indicating a subpage at Archithese?) Also re: the AfD, one of the rules is, notability is not inherited. The fact these architects have written for the mag and/or given interviews there, and featured those texts on their own sites, is germane; even better would be they or others mentioning it in print. But the mere fact it's published things by famous architects doesn't make it notable. I hope that makes sense; end of my worknight approaches fast! --Yngvadottir (talk) 13:17, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Makes total sense — thank you for your help, I will try to address these issues. Best. --Jackself87 (talk) 13:24, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A belated welcome

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Welcome Jackself87!

Now that you've joined Wikipedia, there are 48,248,655 users!
Hello, Jackself87. Welcome to Wikipedia and thank you for your contributions! I'm Yngvadottir, one of the other editors here, and I hope you decide to stay and help contribute to this amazing repository of knowledge. I'm sorry that your welcome to Wikipedia is that your first article got tagged up and nominated for deletion. Do you have any sources you can add to it?
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Sincerely, Yngvadottir (talk) 04:14, 27 May 2012 (UTC)   (Leave me a message)[reply]

making Fulcrum page acceptable

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I need assistance with the Fulcrum (magazine) page, getting it up to scratch. Can anyone make any suggestions? Many thanks!

Wikipedia's criterion for inclusion is called WP:Notability and is not a matter of opinion but has to be demonstrated by showing "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." Significant means more than just listing-type mentions; reliable excludes Myspace, Facebook, blogs, places where anyone can post anything; independent excludes the subject's own website, affiliated ones and anything based on press releases. See also WP:42. The test is, have people independent of the subject thought it significant enough to write substantial comment about?
So what the article needs is evidence of people independent of the magazine writing about it. You may not be able to find that: I have to say that experience shows that student magazines, and student activities generally, are very seldom notable in Wikipedia's sense, and if the subject is not notable, rewriting the article will not help. I advise you, before putting too much effort into this one, to read Wikipedia:No amount of editing can overcome a lack of notability. JohnCD (talk) 13:29, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks JohnCD, that makes complete sense. Is there a way to sideline this article until I am able to provide notability? Or do I have to accept the deletion and recreate it later? Best wishes. --Jackself87 (talk) 13:49, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Since the deletion debate has started, best to let it run. If the article is deleted, but you have a reasonable expectation of being able to show notability in the fairly near future, you could ask the closing administrator to userfy it for you - move it into a user sub-page, where you could work on it. It could not stay there indefinitely: the WP:User page policy has a clause WP:FAKEARTICLE which allows for "Short-term hosting of potentially valid articles and other reasonable content under development" but says that user pages "should not be used to indefinitely host pages that look like articles, old revisions, or deleted content." Three to six months is usually acceptable. JohnCD (talk) 14:05, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You can request Wikipedia:Userfication (move to Jackself87/sandbox, ~/Fulcrum (magazine), or other specified named subpage); it will remain there until noticed it's no longer being worked on. You can request this at the AfD or use {{admin help}} template here. Dru of Id (talk) 14:14, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm still concerned by the conflict of interest inherent in editing a Wikipedia article of a magazine that you founded yourself. From the way you've handled it, it looks like you're trying to do the right thing and not just out to promote your work. However well you handle it, though, there will be people who are suspicious of it. I do think your time would be more productively spent using your obvious expertise to improve Wikipedia's general coverage of architecture — there are all kinds of articles under Category:British_architects that could surely be improved with expert attention. Dricherby (talk) 15:51, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Conflict of interest

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Jack - similar to what I wrote on the AfD discussion, I don't think that conflict of interest needs to remove you from an article. Read WP:COI & Wikipedia:Amnesia test. I know that for myself, I started editing WP because I wanted to write an article about a topic that I had a COI. It's now 3 years later and I think that I've contributed not a small amount to WP. As long as you can establish basic notability, the article can / should stay and be improved. If you as a person with lots of knowledge on the subject think you need a bit more time, say so and editors will give it to you (close the AfD as keep or userfy). If you and your knowledge read WP:N & WP:RS and know in your heart that at this point in time, Fulcrum is just not a notable journal, vote delete and move on to edit some other topics in WP. It is possible to game the system but that's not why we are here. Anyway, g'day, Joe407 (talk) 04:16, 31 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: The "Article" has been userfied to User:Jackself87/Fulcrum (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 15:44, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So you asked for help - come and have some Tea!

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Hi there

I have been looking at the debate about Fulcrum and I see that it's complex. One thing that interested me was you asked for help - a wise thing to do. ... and you're a new editor too!

Right - there is a place that maybe able to help. It's called the Teahouse, a project in Wikipedia for new editors and those unfamiliar with the maze! Some see that phrase "Conflict Of interest" and run away. Us Teahouse types are different. We can't promise that things will work out as you expect, but we aint afraid of a challenge - a bit like you. So here's a formal invite - stop by any time!


Teahouse logo
Hello! Jackself87, you are invited to join other new editors and friendly hosts in the Teahouse. An awesome place to meet people, ask questions and learn more about Wikipedia. Please join us! Media-Hound 'D 3rd P^) (talk) 20:36, 28 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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