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March 31

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Science and technology


(Posted) RD: Gene Derricotte

[edit]
Article: Gene Derricotte (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): San Antonio Express-News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:43, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: George Nagobads

[edit]
Article: George Nagobads (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC SportsStar Tribune
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Latvian-born American physician associated with the Miracle on Ice team. Flibirigit (talk) 19:42, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Indore stepwell collapse

[edit]
Article: Indore stepwell collapse (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ An Indian temple floor built over a stepwell collapses, killing 36 people and injuring 16 others. (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times,Reuters, The Guardian, Associated Press, CBS News and CNN.
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: I am not expert in writing blurb so can any other user improve the blurb. ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️Let's Talk ! 07:17, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose I have edited the blurb to make it clearer that it was the cover of the well which collapsed. It's an interesting headline as I wasn't previously familiar with stepwells. But, per WP:NEWSEVENT, it's not really an encyclopedic topic -- just another fatal accident. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:36, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Accidental mass fatalities seem to get a lot of oppose votes these days, but I disagree. And I also think that the unusual nature of this accident is noteworthy. The blurb could do with clarifying that the actual collapse was a concrete floor over the top of the well, which was not what I would have understood from the proposed blurb. GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:38, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The BBC says 'a concrete slab'. GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:57, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Associated Press says "iron grills and tiles". Per WP:NEWSEVENT, "... early coverage may lack perspective and be subject to factual errors". Andrew🐉(talk) 09:34, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

*Support per all above - definitely ready for ITNRD, marking as ready. Cheers. WimePocy 11:44, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support when expanded per above. - Knightsoftheswords281 i.e Crusader1096 (Talk-Contribs-Wikis) 12:54, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on Quality - Article is pretty stubby. Onegreatjoke (talk) 13:47, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What is this alluding to :)? Gotitbro (talk) 08:38, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Curbon7 promised to donate $5 to the Wikimedia Foundation if Editor5426387 made a vote without saying 'per the above' PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:36, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OR if Editor Prime Number make an argument that isn't a logical fallacy. Don't forget that! :-) Cheers! Fakescientist8000 00:59, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I can't believe that I didn't learn about this sooner. However, @Curbon7, I will say, I look into the ITN archives out of boredom, and 5426387 did make an argument that wasn't just "per the above" on the Super Bowl nomination back in February. It didn't go anywhere since by then the Super Bowl was posted, and I don't know when this bet occurred, or if previous votes count, but, I found one. Better donate 5 bones, my guy ;) TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 15:44, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 30

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

  • New Zealand records its first case of rabies in a human. A patient who had been in hospital since early March died from the disease, which did not spread further. (News24)

International relations

Law and crime


(Posted) RD: Doug Mulray

[edit]
Article: Doug Mulray (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://celebrity.nine.com.au/latest/doug-mulray-death-australian-comedian-radio-television-presenter-dies-aged-71/23064953-75c0-4595-bf8b-ec7fad3e0637
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australian comedian, radio and television presenter HiLo48 (talk) 22:34, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Spencer, I've done some copy-editing, let me know if additional copy-edits are needed or not! Tails Wx 04:36, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Peter Usborne

[edit]
Article: Peter Usborne (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died today, founded Usborne Publishing (which may need some work) but his article is fine.  phrogge 'sup? edits 01:07, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Nick Galifianakis (politician)

[edit]
Article: Nick Galifianakis (politician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [1]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died on March 27, announced today. Member of the U.S. House, uncle of the comedian. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:38, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Trump indicted

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.



Proposed image
Article: Indictment of Donald Trump (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A grand jury indicts former U.S. president Donald Trump (pictured) over his payments to porn star Stormy Daniels, making Trump the first former U.S. president to be indicted. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Former U.S. president Donald Trump is indicted over his role in a hush money payment scandal, becoming the first U.S. president to face criminal charges.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Former U.S. president Donald Trump is indicted by a New York grand jury on 34 counts.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Former U.S. president Donald Trump is indicted by a New York grand jury, becoming the first U.S. president to face criminal charges.
News source(s): NYT CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: First former U.S. president to ever be indicted. Will also significantly affect the 2024 presidential election Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 21:55, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment First current or former president to be indicted, not just first former president. Might be more concise to just say first American president to be indicted and charged with crimes? I have no thoughts on a !vote yet. It's definitely going to be enormous news in the United States and very likely to receive large coverage across the world. Maybe once/if we have a standalone article about the ramifications of this news story it can be posted, but right now it might be a little soon since we don't know what he will be charged with yet and he has not been arrested yet.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 21:59, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome to your opinion. But it is not and should not be our policy to focus on the Anglosphere. We already have a source-bias problem there, because it is generally necessary to be able to both read the source language and write English in order to contribute. That's a lot easier to find people for if the source language is also English. We should absolutely not compound that by intentionally focussing on Anglophones. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:14, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I never said we should intentionally focus on the Anglosphere, I even think we should strive not to in many circumstances, my point was that we shouldn't oppose this story purely based on the fact that it's America-centric PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:16, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Extremely based opinion. Look I support attempts to broaden coverage of the rest of the world, but this whole circus that occurs whenever a US-based story occurs or this attempt to "combat systemic bias" by opposing western stories is trivial and petty, and a direct violation of WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. - Knightsoftheswords281 (Talk-Contribs) 21:15, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The indictment of a former president, one of the most powerful jobs in the world, is not newsworthy? Manumaker08 (talk) 15:52, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suggest !wait - Maybe it's a little too early to accurately assess the notability? We don't know what the ramifications will be yet. Indictment of Donald Trump was started after this nomination was posted and it'll take time to develop into a suitable target article. I recommend holding off from !voting for at least a couple of hours, if not a day.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 22:26, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for now. Obviously this is too short of an update now, but by later tonight, it should be fleshed out as those relevant comment. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 22:33, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support. Article at Indictment of Donald Trump is suitably fleshed out, so that should be the bold link. Altblurb 3 is probably the one that conveys the importance of the issue without mentioning something that might end up to be wrong (e.g. nature, number of charges), though it will have to be updated later. Former POTUS being indicted is unprecedented, and WP:BLPCRIME is not a complete bar on these pre-conviction legal matters, especially for public figures, which Trump obviously is. There's a lot of US stuff that gets nominated here that would be too American-centric to post, but this is not one of them, and posting would help our readers navigate to the an important and highly sought-after item in the news. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 21:21, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait. As far as I can tell there is no indication yet of what the indictment is for, and whether it will turn out to be something utterly minor. BD2412 T 22:39, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I wonder if we should wait until we know the actual charges. The indictment is still sealed. Clear historical first.331dot (talk) 22:42, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • Agree that waiting until the actual charges are, and the article expanded, are known. --Masem (t) 22:44, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Yes; with Putin we knew what the charges were. And also agree the article needs expansion. 331dot (talk) 00:22, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      In that case, we knew what the charges were and still falsely accused them of child abduction instead. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:25, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      It's not false, many RS claim that. Russia has no authority to move a single Ukrainian civilian from Ukraine, they are an invader, much less force Russian citizenship on them. But I've already said too much. 331dot (talk) 08:46, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      The blurb wasn't about what many RS claimed about Russia, it was just about what the ICC prosecutor alleged Putin and Lvova-Belova did. Which was "unlawful deportation and transfer of Ukrainian children from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation", not child abduction. If anyone's abducting children, it's their underlings, minions or goons. High-level politicians play high-level games. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:42, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. We don't want to have our remarks struck due to sanctions. We should make facetious remarks about imaginary screenplays instead. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:04, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. It's absolutely refreshing to see Wikipedia's "In the News" not following the example of mainstream US media, who as usual imply, by the size of their headlines, that Donald Trump is the most important and interesting person in the world. Bishonen | tålk 23:10, 30 March 2023 (UTC).[reply]
  • Oppose. If he gets convicted, or indicted on an offense more likely to lead to conviction, then we can consider posting. BilledMammal (talk) 23:13, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Couldn't we have a pic of Stormy Daniels instead? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:17, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We don't do arrests. We ignored the rules for Putin and Lvova-Belova, and proved we can't be trusted to present allegations as allegations or even get the allegation correct. Right off the bat, it was one payment and Michael Cohen made it, not Trump. Trump is accused of falsifying a record of the repayment. Not again, for any BLPs. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:20, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support and Bishonen you are in my top 3 admins or editors ever, but cmon it is not just the mainstream US media. This is the top story everywhere. Al-Jazeera Arabic (and English), BBC, The Guardian, Le Figaro, The Chosun Ilbo, Bild, Sydney Morning Herald are all leading with this. This is the top story on every single newspaper I look at it in multiple languages. I dont get the idea of waiting either, right now is when people would be looking for information on this story, right now is when it is most relevant to post to our in the news section. nableezy - 23:23, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I hate to repeat myself but we are not a newspaper. We do not care how many RSes cover a story, we want to make sure we get the story right first and foremost for the enduring topic of an encyclopedia. That we have no idea what he was indicted for is the issue. Which should be known in a few days. Masem (t) 00:56, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    You keep saying this thing like it applies to this discussion. ITN exists to direct our readers towards topics they are reading about in the news. So yes, it matters how many news sources are covering something, as that correlates to the number of people reading about it and in turn searching here for more information about it. Nothing in the blurb I proposed is not solidly backed up by a ton of reliable sources. So the bit about we dont know is likewise not relevant here. nableezy - 03:33, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks, Nableezy! Indeed, the mainstream media all over the world publicize everything about DT as if the least detail connected with him or word out of his mouth ("Alvin Bragg is a Soros-backed animal") was the most newsworthy thing in the world. And this, still, even after the media's soul-searching ever since 2016: "We created this monster!" Yeah, you did, guys, and Trump must be delighted to see the size of, say, Wapo's headline. Bishonen | tålk 08:30, 31 March 2023 (UTC).[reply]
  • Premature The alleged indictment is under seal. Until it is published this is conjecture. Ok... it's well sourced and widely reported conjecture. But it is not real until the indictment is unsealed and publicly put on the record. Same for the leaked SCOTUS decision that overturned Roe v Wade. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:31, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support — The indictment of Donald Trump has no meaningful impact on the world. However, given that this story is the top headline around the world (above Finland's accession to NATO), I'm going to support putting this in ITN. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 23:33, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nableezy, who did the same thing I did, look at multiple worldwide news sources. It's at the top around the globe. The news of the indctment itself is news. Opposers don't make a convincing case, as I see it. Jusdafax (talk) 23:37, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Up until 15 or so minutes ago, there was another top story about the Paltrow verdict. Before that, it was NATO. Before that, the Vatican and the Pope personally. Opposers never think Supporters are convincing, nor vice versa, that's the point. But news changes. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:49, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Paltrow was the top story in multiple newspapers across the world in multiple languages? I call bs. nableezy - 00:47, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I only read French and English, and thought I was talking about multiple worldwide news sources here. So you may be right. But I shit you not. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:53, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Not just the front page, but the top story? Push everything off for the multiple stories that run off this story level of story? Cmon, the last time that happened was when some old lady died in Scotland. nableezy - 01:03, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I cannot resist a cmon. Have it your way (meaning I like your alt). I could care less about Gwyneth Paltrow, but the important thing to happen today is still the Vatican's renunciation of the discovery doctrine. It's just one step, sure. But a much bigger step than this one step. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:11, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nableezy. Rushtheeditor (talk) 23:43, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - While I would oppose this in principle, as nableezy said it is the headline right now. ITN is intended for global news, and I agree that American/Western news tends to wrongfully dominate ITN, but this is not the event to try to make that point. Estar8806 (talk) 23:53, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I forgot to mention my support is conditional on the link being changed as others above have mentioned. Estar8806 (talk) 00:49, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support with reservations, Mr. Trump is an important political figure in the 3rd largest country by population, and this is a story that will be widely covered by news media globally. While I wouldn't normally support this in most other circumstances, this is one where I think we really should make an exception for reasons mentioned prior. I do think the wording of this could be reworded however to flow better. Planetberaure (talk) 01:16, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support—Per Nsk92. My understanding is that indictments aren't normally ITN-worthy, but this is the former President of the United States and a uniquely high-profile person. The fact that criminal charges are being formally pressed against a former POTUS is unprecedented, and a major development. Kurtis (talk) 01:28, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Et tu, Kurtis? C'est la vie. But FWIW, it won't be a fact until he's arraigned, probably Tuesday. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:38, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I mean, I know it’s not conventional, but this indictment strikes me as being uniquely consequential and newsworthy. That being said, I do see the opposing points and am open to reconsidering. Kurtis (talk) 11:15, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Nah, yer good, bud. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:28, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Changing to neutral. I've been mulling it over since yesterday, and ultimately, I'm not sure where I land. On the one hand, convention is to wait until a conviction takes place, which I think is a good thing; we don't want to contribute to the perception that someone is guilty before they've even had a trial. Approving this could conceivably set a precedent for other indictments, which wouldn't be desirable. But on the other hand, a current or former POTUS even being charged with a crime is pretty remarkable, and it's proving to be big news. Kurtis (talk) 07:05, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: We post convictions, not indictments. Now, if Trump supporters start rioting in the streets over the indictment, that would be worth posting, but the post would be about the riots, not the indictment. --Carnildo (talk) 02:03, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until Tuesday, which appears to be the date Trump has agreed to be taken into custody, which means we'll also know all of the charges at that point. --Masem (t) 02:08, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb2. Link to the article about the indictment. Update the blurb and article as this story develops. On Tuesday we can add “and arrested” and say specifically what the 34 counts are. Jehochman Talk 02:29, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • The number of counts is not known. It is what is claimed to be the number from those with inside information, but it is no way official, and definitely something we cannot support on the main page. --Masem (t) 02:32, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      • Reliable sources report 34 counts. It’s good enough for starters. Soon we will know more and update the blurb. It’s like a disaster where we keep updating the toll. (Unlike a disaster, this is great, great news.) Jehochman Talk 02:34, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
        It is ABSOLUTELY NOT, and a major violation of BLPCRIME to include in the blurb. He's indicted on at least one count, and that number may be higher, which is the same way we handle death tolls, reporting "At least (known death toll)" and updating as we go along. Masem (t) 02:43, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
        BLPCRIME does not apply to public figures. Pawnkingthree (talk) 16:58, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support This is THE political news that people have been waiting on for years. This is amongst the first of likely several, and has historic implications as well as implications for the 2024 race. If any US political news made it as an ITN article over the past 6 years, this would be an obvious contender for top 3. People that oppose this either don't understand the full gravity of how "NEWS" worthy it is, or are biased and trying to mask it with feigned concern. When you think rationally about this, this is prime ITN material, especially on the English Wikipedia. Zombie Philosopher (talk) 02:48, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
'Especially on the English Wikipedia' my eye. This is Wikipedia in English, not Wikipedia about Anglophones. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:04, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Seems like a no-brainer at this point to post this -- a former US President and current presidential candidate has been indicted for the first time in US history, and on 34 criminal charges, is clearly of major political significance for the US, and is being widely covered globally with interest for potential domestic and international implications. --PopularMax (talk) 02:50, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: This event has been quite widely spoken of for the past week, and yes it is only an indictment but I'm sure the whole Bill Clinton ordeal would have made ITN had it happened more recently. And though, yes, that was a different situation the publicity behind it is largely the same. Daneelis114 03:41, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support a formal indictment of an US former president. Yes, we probably won’t post a former president of Paraguay or Fiji being arrested, but let’s face reality: the US is simply much more relevant to any audience outside those countries. Juxlos (talk) 04:44, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose More US-centric news. Not a sitting president. Not even convicted. CoatCheck (talk) 04:52, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    "Please do not oppose an item solely because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one." The Kip (talk) 06:03, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reminder People face their charges at arraignment in America. When they literally (albeit sometimes virtually) face a judge. Until then, it's just a figure of speech and if it's posted early, no amount of reasoning can fix it later on ERRORS. Also bear in mind that nobody explicitly asked for a picture with this one. Nobody. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:16, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: As per above, this is the first time that a former US president has been indicted. Even though convictions are generally considered for ITN, it's hard to ignore the criminal indictment of a former president of the most powerful country on Earth and its significant political and social ramifications. Waiting for his arraignment (most probably short) would not not change the initial significance of his indictment. I do not think that we should be seeking to be sensational by waiting to post only his arraignment as this is one of the steps that follows an indictment.^^Maxxies (talk) 05:29, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    If you're misunderstanding me, I'm just saying don't write that he's become a president facing charges until it's true, not don't post (in my Vote I'm saying don't post, but not in the Reminder). InedibleHulk (talk) 05:47, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    There is no doubt about the indictment. The district attorney has confirmed it. Arraignment will happen when Trump flies to New York and presents himself in court. The indictment has already happened. Jehochman Talk 08:09, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    If there's a better way I might convey that my problem isn't with the indictment, but rather that the president will only hear/face his charges/judge on the coming Tuesday (at which time, unless something changes, half these blurbs will become accurate for the first time), just let me know. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:42, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. Post conviction. Pavlor (talk) 05:36, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - An historic decision. First former U.S President to be indicted.BabbaQ (talk) 06:10, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- this story is literally everywhere. It would make Wikipedia look ridiculous to not also post it. --RockstoneSend me a message! 08:05, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral on the actual posting - it's clearly big news, but other users are correct that we don't normally post individual arrests or indictments. We should definitely wait until it actually happens and the charge list is unsealed. And I want to stress again that the fact that a person is charged with a stated offence is frequently a public fact about them, and we shouldn't shy away from that. I appreciate not wanting to present the information in such a way as to prejudice a trial, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't cover it. And I notice that some of the people who are keen to rely on BLPCRIME when it protects prominent right-wing politicians, are not so exercised when speculating about other alleged criminals. GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:43, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I would like to bring up that we posted the arrest warrant for Vladimir Putin by the ICC, so this isn't too much of a stretch. In fact, I'd even argue it's more notable due to the real chance that Trump will be arrested, while the ICC's decision was largely symbolic. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 08:59, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Mixed - I'm leaning support due to the fact that this is literally In The News, at the top of every news outlet, and the indictment of a former global hegemon, as others have pointed out, is big news. Opposing based on the fact that this is America-centric is not really a strong point. However, @InedibleHulk has made quite good counter-arguments, and it might be best to wait, as per the above. Hmmm PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:07, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Changing vote to Wait, per above Waits PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:14, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Listen to your heart, PW, not this ringworn old blob of cholestorolic vapourlock (but if you happen to never write "however" again, I'd appreciate it). InedibleHulk (talk) 09:29, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is the sort of remark I mean, when I say that your posting at ITNC includes a lot of wildly unhelpful material that is tolerated out of all proportion to its relevance. Can a third party comment on this phenonomenon, please? GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:39, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's better than Indeed. We don't want to have our remarks struck due to sanctions. We should make facetious remarks about imaginary screenplays instead. Anyone want to have to guess what the hell that means? I can't bother. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:47, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
My guess is as good as yours when it comes to that phrase
Better to be a bit more relaxed, in my humble opinion. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:45, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
NEVER! That's when they get you. But yeah, I'll pace quietly. InedibleHulk (talk) 13:00, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that this editor is consistently disruptive, but not so egregiously as to warrant sanction. Just don't look. GreatCaesarsGhost 12:25, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Listen to my heart, I shall PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:51, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We post convictions, not indictments. The story could end up being a whole pile of nothing yet. Black Kite (talk) 09:51, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until it is official, then post the indictment. If that means we're a couple days late to the news, so be it; it'll be on the main page for a couple of weeks regardless, based on the current slow news cycle. Anarchyte (talk) 09:59, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We don't generally post indictments, we post convictions. I don't see this as necessary to break that standard. Furthermore, the article highlighted is neither sufficiently updated nor of sufficient quality. There are basically two fragmentary sentences (one in the lead and one in the timeline", and the article suffers from WP:PROSELINE quality problems. --Jayron32 11:48, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose i'd rather wait for a conviction. Onegreatjoke (talk) 12:18, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Blurb per above. Kirill C1 (talk) 19:17, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Conviction, not indictment. There are 100 ways for an indictment to end, and 98 of them are non-stories. --WaltClipper -(talk) 19:32, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – It is not the first time a former President of a country has been indicted. News has relevance pretty much in the US alone. Yakme (talk) 19:39, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Why does this matter? I constantly see this, but the note up top explicitly admonishes people against opposing because an article only relates to one country. Are people just unable to read or...? -- RockstoneSend me a message! 03:07, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait - we don't know why he was indicted - there's rumours out there. If he's actually charged, or flees into exile, then I think we need IAR and post this. It's a massive story - unlike anything we've seen in a half-century since Vice-President Agnew (who was also facing indictment on similar charges). Yeah, we have a problem with an American bias here - but this is big. Nfitz (talk) 20:43, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, per Bish and Black Kite. No conviction yet, we don't know the contents of the indictment, it's presumably something to do with campaign finance laws that are not infrequently broken. If there is a fallout, it will presumably occur after a trial is complete. Also: this may briefly have made headlines outside the US, but as I write, it no longer is very prominent; it's dropped off of the front page for the non-US outlets that I checked; at best, there's a followup opinion piece or two visible. Vanamonde (Talk) 22:07, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is there some smiling photo of him? If we have to have an image, then are the AI generated ones of him being arrested not CC licensed? Half kidding, but I dont think we need his photo for this blurb, it adds nothing to it. nableezy - 23:38, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    When he surrenders on Tuesday we can add his photo. The mugshot. Jehochman Talk
  • Support - While not a completely unique event, it is still unprecedented for the United States and follows a lengthy investigation that was itself a long-running news story. While there's no guarantee this will be considered a big deal in a few years, I'm satisfied that it's a big deal right now, and suitable for the infobox. Tisnec (talk) 02:50, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) US Senate votes to end COVID-19 emergency

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.



Article: No article specified
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:
Nominator's comments: This about as much of a declaration of end to the pandemic we can hope for. WHO will never declare it. 2A02:2F0B:B500:5A00:41F3:1AF6:93B2:B1C5 (talk) 17:17, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - For all practical purposes, the pandemic has already been over for quite some time. There is no need to post an official announcement of its end that only deals with one country out of more than 190. Son OThe Desert (Talk) 17:41, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • What? Let's not get carried away, the US is not the WHO and, therefore, the end of the pandemic can only be declared by this organization. This is far from being ITNR-worthy when, moreover, it is not even the only country to have done so. _-_Alsor (talk) 17:54, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Irregardless of what the nominator thinks, the WHO will eventually declare covid-19 has moved from a global pandemic to a global endemic. When that happens, it's news and we'll post it. In the meantime, the United States is just one country. Gopchunk (talk) 18:22, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - I don't feel like I need to explain why. Onegreatjoke (talk) 19:21, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I understand why you've nominated this, but there are numerous flaws in the idea. The bill hasn't become law yet - Biden still has to sign it. The US Senate doesn't get to decide when a global pandemic is over. That's not what they've done anyway - the bill is related to emergency powers and funding that were granted to the US federal government to tackle the pandemic, not a declaration of when the pandemic itself began or ended. Those powers were due to expire in May anyway. There's no reason to post the US response to the pandemic over other countries'. Wait for the WHO declaration that Covid is endemic, whenever that may be. And finally, there's no updated article, which is an immediate fail for ITN. Modest Genius talk 19:31, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – The WHO will, eventually, declare that the pandemic is over. The United States is not the WHO. DecafPotato (talk) 19:37, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Fort Campbell collision

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Proposed image
Article: 2023 Fort Campbell mid-air collision (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the United States, two helicopters (model of both pictured) operated by the 101st Airborne Division collide over Fort Campbell in Trigg County, Kentucky, resulting in nine deaths. (Post)
News source(s): NYT - CNN - NYP - NBC - Reuters - CNBC - BBC - Newsweek
Credits:

Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: Collision of two military aircraft in Kentucky, USA, with several fatalities. We posted the Dallas airshow collision in November, so I don't see any issue with posting this as well. Article needs some serious expansion in quality and prose. - Knightsoftheswords281 i.e Crusader1096 (Talk-Contribs-Wikis) 15:42, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging @Jayron32, @Onegreatjoke, @Modest Genius, and @Iamstillqw3rty as the article has been expanded past stub status. - Knightsoftheswords281 i.e Crusader1096 (Talk-Contribs-Wikis) 15:46, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
While that now meets our minimum length and referencing requirements, it doesn't change my view of the (lack of) significance. Modest Genius talk 16:36, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The Dallas airshow was a very contentious posting, probably not a good testcase. There were also other factors which contributed to that posting, particulalry that the two aircraft invovled were historic planes among the last of their kind. This appears to involve two Black Hawk helicopters; helicopter crashes are fairly common compared to other aviation disasters. Curbon7 (talk) 15:48, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We generally don't post deaths that occur during standard military operations since that is an inherent risk associated with being in the military. NoahTalk 16:14, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • oppose per all of the above, -user:editor 5426387 (talk) 16:59, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

March 29

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

  • Sinking of MV Lady Mary Joy 3
    • Thirty-one people are killed and more than 200 others are rescued after a ferry catches fire near an island in Basilan, Philippines. At least seven are still missing. (AP)
  • Four people are killed by a storm in Syria. (AP)

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports


RD: John Kerin

[edit]
Article: John Kerin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/john-kerin-remembered-as-labor-great-20230329-p5cwc4
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Australian government minister HiLo48 (talk) 22:30, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Michael Berlyn

[edit]
Article: Michael Berlyn (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): GameDeveloper.com
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Game developer, creator of Bubsy and co-founder of Bend Studio. The date of death is not clear but it has to be no later than March 29 given the twitter reports. Masem (t) 16:02, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Girish Bapat

[edit]
Article: Girish Bapat (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Indian Express
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Some A lot of issues. Rushtheeditor (talk) 21:07, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Paul O'Grady

[edit]
Article: Paul O'Grady (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [2]
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 2A02:C7C:9238:D400:39E8:F434:CE99:3E68 (talk) 02:08, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Myriam Ullens

[edit]
Article: Myriam Ullens (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Art Newspaper, South China Morning Post, Het Laatste Nieuws (also Daily Mail, but well, let's leave that aside)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Unexpected violent death, but notable long before this as art collector and philantropist Fram (talk) 13:03, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 28

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

International relations

Politics and elections


(Posted) RD: James Bowman (countertenor)

[edit]
Article: James Bowman (countertenor) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): classicfm.com
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: The No. 2 countertenor, Britten's Oberon in 1967, and as good in Early Music as world premieres. The article was pretty much there, but references missing + I was on vacation. I hope he can still appear. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:49, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support it seems quite ready for me.
_-_Alsor (talk) 10:22, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ryuichi Sakamoto

[edit]

RD: Derek Meyers

[edit]
Article: Derek Meyers (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC News Saskatchewan
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Needs expansion. Rushtheeditor (talk) 01:53, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of expansion. _-_Alsor (talk) 10:21, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Margareta Strömstedt

[edit]
Article: Margareta Strömstedt (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): DN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article created after her death. Some citations needed. Thriley (talk) 16:15, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 2023 Saudi Arabia bus crash

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2023 Saudi Arabia bus crash (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: In a bus crash carrying Umrah pilgrims killing at least 20 and 29 injured in Asir province in southwestern Saudi Arabia. (Post)
News source(s): Gulf News, BBC, AL Jazeera
Credits:
 Ainty Painty (talk) 08:17, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Per @Sandstein, and, while this is a tragedy, death tolls do not automatically mean notability. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:40, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per WP:NEWSEVENT, "Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, deaths, celebrity or political news, "shock" news, ... – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance." Andrew🐉(talk) 10:38, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I think this policy should come up way more often on ITN. It feels like every single disaster over 15 or so deaths gets posted regardless of actual significance (though not to downplay these tragedies). PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:24, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Its not just ITN, but NOTNEWS overall that needs to be more strictly enforced. We shouldn't have articles on things like bus accidents like this in the first place, though a list of traffic accidents in (country) would be appropriate. Masem (t) 12:27, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment We recently posted a bus plunge in Panama. I don't see what makes this any different in terms of postability. Regardless, the article is at AfD, so that precludes this discussion until that is resolved. Curbon7 (talk) 12:04, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - while I generally revile arguments such as WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NEWSEVENT being used in a section dedicated to covering the news, I think instances like this where there really shouldn't be an article at all are acceptable cases for those points to be invoked.
  • Additional comment Article is now at AfD, thus automatically rendering it ineligible for posting unless the AfD closes as a keep (which given how its currently going, seems incredibly unlikely). As such, I'm requesting this be closed.
- Knightsoftheswords281 i.e Crusader1096 ( Talk Contribs Wikis ) 12:42, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Lisbon mass stabbing

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2023 Lisbon Ismaili Centre stabbing (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Portugal, two women are killed and multiple people are injured in a mass stabbing (aftermath pictured) at the Ismaili Centre in Lisbon. (Post)
News source(s): BBC - Sky News - Al Jazeera - Times of Israel - PBS
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Possible high casualty stabbing in Lisbon. Article needs work regarding prose however. - Knightsoftheswords281 i.e Crusader1096 ( Talk Contribs Wikis ) 22:23, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Personally my bar is at 15 dead minimum. So this will be an oppose from me. Onegreatjoke (talk) 03:03, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It feels weird to have a "minimum death toll" for notability. As Andrew pointed out above, WP:NEWSEVENT says "Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, deaths, celebrity or political news, "shock" news, ... – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance." PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:26, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Scratched out what I wrote. Though, i've noticed that the article itself doesn't even really talk about the stabbing. Rather it just mentions the perpetrator, victims, and aftermath. Onegreatjoke (talk) 14:24, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Per @Curbon7 and WP:NEWSEVENT PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:27, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose because although this is rare for Portugal, its death toll is low & we know very little about the motive. This should be on DYK instead. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 13:00, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is in good shape, and reliable sources are giving this the attention to indicate it is significant. --Jayron32 13:04, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Absent a very unusual scenario or context (which there doesn't appear to be here), I don't see how an event with such a low death toll reaches the bar for ITN, regardless of whether it's in the USA, Portugal or anywhere else. Black Kite (talk) 13:44, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on notability 2 deaths, multiple injuries, a shooting in Tennessee had more deaths and got shot down, and so will this. Cheers. WimePocy 16:44, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose trivial crime despite how tragic it was for those involved. In no way encyclopedic. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:22, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Personally, I feel a mass killing, gun or stabbing, should only make ITN if there's a major conversation occurring because of it. I would oppose most mass shootings in America in general, except things such as Uvalde and Buffalo, because conversations for gun restrictions were the result of that. Nashville, nor Monterey Park and Half Moon Bay had that, IMO. Then again, I'm not sure I have much of a say when it comes to how significant this event is, because, well, I'm not Portuguese. Though, I feel my point remains. If no major action/large conversation is taken because of this, then this should not be blurbed. TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 19:01, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Ready) RD: Jacob Ziv

[edit]
Article: Jacob Ziv (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Significant sourcing work needed. Mooonswimmer 14:38, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support, Wikipedia wouldn't function without his work (; Synotia (moan) 16:18, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Notable enough, article looks good. Ollieisanerd (talk) 19:23, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The biography section is almost entirely unsourced. Nythar (💬-🍀) 23:11, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support, Article looks OK.Alex-h (talk) 14:28, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Muhammad Idrees (politician)

[edit]
Article: Muhammad Idrees (politician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Fahads1982 (talk) 14:36, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Ciudad Juárez fire

[edit]
Article: Ciudad Juárez migrant center fire (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Mexico, 38 men are killed and 28 are injured in a fire at a migrant detention facility in the border town of Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Detainees in an immigration detention center in Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua, Mexico deliberately start a fire, killing 39 men.
News source(s): CNN AP ABC NBC
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: High casualty disaster along the US-Mexico border involving migrants. - Knightsoftheswords281 i.e Crusader1096 ( Talk Contribs Wikis ) 12:50, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging @Hurricane Noah and @The Kip given the recent article's expansion. - Knightsoftheswords281 i.e Crusader1096 ( Talk Contribs Wikis ) 22:46, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per WP:NEWSEVENT, "Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, deaths, celebrity or political news, "shock" news, ... – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance." Andrew🐉(talk) 10:40, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You're sure that an arson attack killing 40 people from several countries is a routine event?! Had this happened in the developed world (even if only a couple of miles away in El Paso, Texas), it'd have been posted within a few hours of being created. The article would be much longer & have been edited by several times as many people. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 11:36, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
...such as the deaths of 38 people at a deportation center. Curbon7 (talk) 11:54, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
38 is not a lot – it's comparable with the Saudi bus crash. Migrant deaths are commonplace and, when they are crammed into boats, trucks, camps and the like, you will tend to get death tolls of this size. Overall, the UN estimates about 100/week over the last 10 years. It's an ongoing problem like the cartel war in Mexico for which the stats so far this year include:
1,383 Reported Fatalities
273 Battles
130 Riots
927 Violence against civilians
It's not our job to detail each such incident. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:13, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. This is a horrific tragedy, but ITN isn't just a "disaster with high death toll" ticker. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:27, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Humza Yousaf

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Humza Yousaf (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Humza Yousaf elected as the first minority ethnic leader of the Scottish National Party and set to become Scotland's first minister (Post)
Alternative blurb: Humza Yousaf is elected as the leader of the Scottish National Party and Scotland's First Minister
News source(s): The Guardian, The National
Credits:

Article needs updating
  • Support. The proper target article is in good shape. For the blurb, I recommend the concise altblurb. We can understand the practical effect that he will become First Minister, though some further formalities are required. To my mind this is like the US presidential election where we announce the vote results, not the meeting of the Electoral College. Jehochman Talk 11:23, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Firstly, this is not on ITNR so I've removed that flag. Scotland is not a sovereign country (it is part of the United Kingdom) so its first minister is only the leader of a regional government. It's equivalent to the leader of an Indian state, Belgian community or US state - none of which we post in ITN. Secondly, I don't see how his ethnicity is relevant to the position. Thirdly, it's an internal party succession with no associated popular election. There's no reason to treat this differently from any other local government succession. Modest Genius talk 11:40, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    PS. see the ITN/C discussion when Sturgeon resigned last month. Modest Genius talk 11:42, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    That was a close discussion, and the result was wrong. Scotland is a country, not a state. Not ITNR does not mean it has to be rejected. This is a significant event that is widely in the news. Jehochman Talk 11:55, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    As I said in that discussion, "when comparing different sovereign states it's mostly just semantics whether they refer to their largest sub-national entities as states, provinces, regions, cantons, communities, nations or countries". The fact that the major subdivisions of the UK are called countries is historical and doesn't make them sovereign. I'm British, I know how the UK works. Modest Genius talk 12:01, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I trust you do. California would be the ~7th largest country in the world by GDP, and has the same population as Canada, but we post elections in Monaco, which have much, much less significance and zero global news coverage. Our criteria is borken. Jehochman Talk 12:10, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per MG. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 11:51, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Topic has been covered sufficiently by news sources, article is in sufficiently good shape. The lack of ITNR is a non-issue as many stories are posted in the ITN box that are not in ITNR. --Jayron32 12:21, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose not ITNR and Scotland is mot a sovereign nation, so it’s more close to be a sub-national political event than an statal one. There’s no way this should be posted. _-_Alsor (talk) 12:30, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support - I think there's a difference between the UK's subnational governments and those of countries like America. The fact that I and many other foreigners know about Sturgeon but not say Heather Stefanson or Tim Walz is demonstrative of this.
- Knightsoftheswords281 i.e Crusader1096 ( Talk Contribs Wikis ) 12:33, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the same can be said for famous US Governors, like Ron DeSantis or Gavin Newsom, who are recognisable names overseas like Sturgeon. I don't think many people would be able to name the First Ministers of Wales or Northern Ireland (I even live in the UK and I don't know them).
While the UK and the USA have very different political systems, I feel like you can draw an equivalence between the constituent countries of the UK to US states. Both have an elected legislature in the style of the overall federal legislature, both have significant regional autonomy and control over many of their own affairs, etc. The only meaningful difference here is that the USA has 50 while the UK has 4, which if you adjust for population is roughly like 8-9 states to 4 UK countries. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 13:13, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well to be honest, although that is true, I think another difference lies in the timing. You cited how we didn't post the 2022 Cali elections, which ignore that they were apart of the wider midterm elections that year and were thus already technically covered. This, as far as I know, is an independent election time-wise. - Knightsoftheswords281 i.e Crusader1096 ( Talk Contribs Wikis ) 13:30, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There was no popular election here - voters didn't get a say. Only party members were involved. Modest Genius talk 13:49, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Still an election, as the article title and prose states, as well as governmental processes and news media. - Knightsoftheswords281 i.e Crusader1096 ( Talk Contribs Wikis ) 15:26, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, that's actually a good point, I forgot that the California elections were part of the midterms, but then I'll bring up that we did not post the 2021 California gubernatorial recall election, where Gavin Newsom was re-elected (Discussion for that here). PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:42, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
America is a continent, btw. _-_Alsor (talk) 16:20, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
America primarily refers to the United States (see that that redirects to "United States", not "The Americas". Actually, America, by itself, is not a continent. There's North America, and South America, but there's no continent referred to "America". --RockstoneSend me a message! 03:33, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I know many in South America prefer to use "America" to refer to the two landmasses as a whole. If I'm perfectly honest the whole idea of a continent is stupid, there are incredibly arbitrary borders (Europe ends at the Ural Mountains and Black Sea. Why? Don't ask questions. North America and Africa both end at man-made canals, why? Who knows? And there's some mysterious sea border between Oceania and Asia that no one can quite define. Also, why are we even grouping these places together? The Middle East is insanely different from the Central Turkic states, which are different from Eastern Russia, which is different from China, which is different from Thailand, which is different from India, which is different from the Philippines, and etc. etc. Why are all of these places grouped together into "Asia"? Asia was literally just a Roman Province, same for Africa. Well I have no clue how I got from the Scottish First Minister to ranting about geographical divisions but I'm getting off topic so I better stop.). PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:49, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - It's explicitly not ITNR. But it is making the headlines. And for the record, I would also support a sufficiently prominent sub-national election elsewhere in the world. I am interested to see what becomes of the NSW proposal further down, once it is a done deal and not ongoing. GenevieveDEon (talk) 16:55, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I support in principle the idea of posting election results in large sub-national regions, but Scotland is nowhere near the largest and most influential sub-national regions, so until such a practice becomes much more common I will oppose. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:02, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support (altblurb)- Simply because it's an election not listed on ITNR doesn't make it ineligible for ITN, which is what most of the opposition I've seen so far has been based on. Without regard to the fact that Yousaf is the first muslim leader of a major political party in the UK (I think in the whole of the West, if I'm not mistaken) but it is a major moment for the Scottish independence movement. For example, The Independent reports that Labour and the Conservatives are calling Scottish independence "dead"[4]. Not only is his election being reported covered by major UK news outlets (such as the Guardian[5]). , but also by primarily U.S. sources like CNN[6] and global sources like Al Jazeera.[7]Estar8806 (talk) 22:00, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose -- We do not post the elections of subnational entities. We wouldn't post this same story if it happened in a US state or Canadian Province, even though US states and Canadian Provinces are more independent than Scotland is. To post this story would smack of UK-centrism, already a huge problem here. --RockstoneSend me a message! 22:17, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Objection! Scotland has Scots law. You don't see that kind of self-rule in Nova Scotia or Manitoba. If Ontario wants to reject the monarchy, it needs permission from the nine other provincial legislatures, the federal government and the monarchy. Scotland just fights (historically). InedibleHulk (talk) 22:51, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    ... Good point. I have a feeling that I don't understand Canadian federalism very well. Here in the US though, Louisiana has its own legal system that's a hybrid of civil and common-law, and here in Florida, juries consist of only 6 people (except for capital felonies). -- RockstoneSend me a message! 23:36, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, all fifty states are absolutely positively 100% sovereign. Florida Man is popular for a reason that just wouldn't fly in one of the hippy or yippie states. Here, we can't publish (decent) crime comics, anywhere, despite that panic having died out with the MPs who thought it made sense at the time. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:57, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Also, Cajuns are arguably more Canadian than hippy, yippie or Floridian, by virtue of their Acadian "bloodline". And those poor historical souls were arguably more French than anything. And as any Gallic historian can tell you, France probably had something to do with Gaelic diverging from Celtic and Welsh back in the foggy days when unicorns represented more than a district, ward, factory, metropolitan statistical area or fen. Maybe I'm just rambling. Support Photo Blurb because this formerly magic kingdom and its promising new ruler are still In The News today. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:13, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The election of a leader of a subnational govt. shouldn’t be posted. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 22:37, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support this is good news 5.44.170.26 (talk) 22:55, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - for the same reason as opposing the Sturgeon announcement, we dont post sub-national office changes. We would never post the election of the governor of California, which remains a much more consequential position in nearly every regard. nableezy - 23:19, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Subnational entity, and conceptually the position is no more powerful or constitutionally significant than the governor of California, which we wouldn't generally post... And that's before we even consider that California has a population more than seven times that of Scotland.  — Amakuru (talk) 00:02, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per my prior rationale for supporting changes in the holder of First Minister of Scotland. DarkSide830 (talk) 03:27, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment There is a reason changes to heads of state/government of non-sovereign entities are not included in ITNR and why such noms have not received support here. A case can be made that this election is significant, with the choosen head being the first from an ethnic minority background, but this stemming from a mere party election and not a popular vote is not fully convincing as to the latter's notability. Gotitbro (talk) 06:33, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I think he's more notable for trying to call an independence referendum on his first day in attempted service than for being...whatever one calls a native Glaswegian ethnic minority or minority ethnic leader in Scotland. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:25, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. what about the first Zhuang governor of Guangxi province while we're at it? Sheila1988 (talk) 09:30, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Yes, Scotland has less autonomy than some other subnational entities. But 1), the countries of the UK get significantly more worldwide media coverage than things like the governor of California (which, like I said when Sturgeon resigned, has a higher population and GDP and msot other metrics than some sovereign states, proving that "a bunch more people live there" isn't a valid reason to oppose), and 2) the campaign for Scottish independence remains significant and ITN-worthy in my opinion. DecafPotato (talk) 10:08, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment from nominator. I'll remember all this 'we don't do regions' during the US primaries then. but no doubt the US bias will rule differently at that point and we'll have a whole bunch of stuff about Super Tuesday and guff that only affects 'regions' of the US. 148.64.29.90 (talk) 11:02, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    As far as I am aware, we have never posted Super Tuesday in ITN. Modest Genius talk 11:15, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Even so, and this may be controversial, but I think a major US party nomination (especially for a contentious race like what's going on in the Republican party) could be argued for notability in ITN. I live in the UK, so it's not out of some American bias, but because American politics naturally has more weight as a. It is predominantly the focus of most major, reliable news outlets, and b. The US heavily influences the entire world. That being said, I'm sure there's plenty of good counter-arguments. Just my take. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 16:18, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, If it is not ITNR it does not mean it is not suitable for ITN. Alex-h (talk) 14:23, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, we have a long standing aversion to sub-national politics for a reason: it becomes very difficult to decide where to draw the line. I could see this creeping further to include, for example the governor of California, mayors of Paris, Tokyo, Berlin... We already feature a lot of political news, no need to expand this - Dumelow (talk) 07:09, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

March 27

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology


RD: Gianni Minà

[edit]
Article: Gianni Minà (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [8]
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: A key figure in Italian journalism, I didn't manage to nominate him until now. At the moment, the main issue is the evident lack of sources, but I hope I'll be able to solve it as soon as possible. Oltrepier (talk) 08:31, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Oltrepier Have you been able to work on it? The article still needs a lot of work. _-_Alsor (talk) 10:13, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Alsoriano97 Actually, I don't know if I'll be able to work on it as much as I would like to: sorry... Oltrepier (talk) 18:18, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Cuban parliamentary election

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2023 Cuban parliamentary election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: The Communist Party of Cuba wins the parliamentary elections. They were the first elections since 1976 in which neither Fidel nor Raúl Castro are involved. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Parliamentary elections are held in Cuba, the first since 1976 without either Fidel or Raúl Castro.
News source(s): Al Jazeera
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Cuba holds election. Needs updates. Rushtheeditor (talk) 23:44, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Single-party state, elections effectively mean nothing. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 13:16, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose - Just another sham election. TomcatEnthusiast1986 (talk) 00:25, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - WP:GOODFAITH nomination, however, it's an election in a single party state. Big deal. Crusader1096 (message) 01:46, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support - since its the first election in Cuba not under the Castros, I reckon that this is fine for posting since it's WP:ITNR. - Knightsoftheswords281 i.e Crusader1096 ( Talk Contribs Rights ) 03:33, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Might I add that this is under the condition that the primary article is expanded and improved upon. - Knightsoftheswords281 i.e Crusader1096 ( Talk Contribs Rights ) 03:35, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Reinstating original vote following alteration of blurb. - Knightsoftheswords281 i.e Crusader1096 (Talk|Contribs|Wikis) 21:13, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment We do post the results of sham elections, such as Kazakhstan which is currently posted, but there is a distinction between the circumstances there and here. Curbon7 (talk) 01:51, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality (note: there is nothing in ITNR saying single-party elections are not ITNR) Tube·of·Light 02:29, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The blurb is not accurate. The CPC did not win the election because the candidates do not represent that party and are not necessarily members. Instead, the candidates represent local assemblies and other bodies such as women's organisations. And there's no "winning" because it's not a competitive process. The voters just get to approve the single choice for each constituency. Most voters just tick a box saying that they approve all 470 candidates. So, what matters is who was selected as candidates by the National Candidature Commission. But the article doesn't list them – there's no list of names, who they represent and which constituency they were elected to. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:37, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional support if and only if the blurb can be written in a concise way that explains the actual result without implying that this was in any sense a competitive election for the Communist Party as an organisation. GenevieveDEon (talk) 16:56, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wrote altblutb to account for the single-party nature of Cuba. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 17:53, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose good faith nom per above. Article is completely inadequate for one covering national "elections" and the elections were just a rubber stamp affair in a Communist police state. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:20, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Blurb is 100% false, with claim that neither Castro were involved in the 1976 "election". The Communist Part of Cuba won all the seats in 1976, and Fidel Castro was both the leader of the party and of the country before and after the 1976 election. Perhaps User:Rushtheeditor can explain this Stalin-like historical revision? Nfitz (talk) 19:25, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Excuse me? I saw that ON the page, and I DID NOT write that on there. I assumed (my fault) that it was true and posted it. Do not accuse me of such ‘historical revision’. Rushtheeditor (talk) 20:20, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Uncalled for. Mistakes happen; stating that an editor's honest mistake is a Stalin-like historical revision is absolutely a personal attack. Curbon7 (talk) 01:38, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb - oppose the tut-tutting of the anti-countering systemic bias in favor of entrenching it fuller crowd. People want to talk about elections but had no problem posting this "election" in which 140k people decided the UK PM, or this one in which not even that level of "election" took place. nableezy - 20:23, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    This is ITN/R and all the arguments about Cuba's elections dont count because I dont believe in Cuban elections should be ignored and tossed aside. The only objection that has merit here is quality, and of the people discussing it that does not seem to be a stopping point here. This should be posted, and the people advocating for keeping ITN a bastion of Western superiority should be rebuked. nableezy - 16:22, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I apologize for the original blurb. I see how it is wrong and I will learn from this and be more careful when proposing blurbs. Again, I am sorry for this. Rushtheeditor (talk) 21:12, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Feels like SNOW is in the offing here, but I still passionately believe that we should post these sorts of elections. No one's refuting that Cuba's a one-party system, and I can understand a lack of belief that anything will change with this election. However, I believe this is an ITN/R election and thus merits posting. DarkSide830 (talk) 21:20, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The reason I, and I suspect some others are opposing this, is because this was not in fact an election in any generally accepted sense of the term. The labels of the Communist Party notwithstanding. You can call a turd a strawberry, but that doesn't make it so and I don't think we should be promoting that kind of blatant fantasy to our readers. The subject is certainly notable enough for coverage in the encyclopedia. But presenting this farce on the main page as an election would be gravely misleading. Wikipedia should not be serving turds and labeling them strawberries. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:30, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    So you sit in judgment of another country's system of governance and deny it the legitimacy of Wikipedia's front page? And that is not systemic bias? nableezy - 22:34, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't consider the Communist Party or any official organ of the Cuban Government as a reliable source. I am unaware of any reliable source that treats this as in any way, an election in the generally accepted sense of the term. If you want to call that systemic bias, then I plead guilty. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:55, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Besides the al-Jazeera source cited, there is Reuters, NBC News, hell even Fox calls them elections. Uncontested ones of course, but they are elections according to reliable sources. nableezy - 23:56, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    They are all reporting the claims of the Cuban government, which is entirely proper. We should likewise report the claims, and we do in the article. But none of them have in any way suggested that what the Cubans are labeling elections, are in fact such. No reliable source has called these true elections, and many have made it fairly clear that they are not. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:23, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    What exactly is the "blatant fantasy" here? We know this election happened. You can debate the actual impact, but there was indeed a parliamentary election just held in Cuba, legitimate or not. Call it a semantic argument, but the phrase "sham election" contains the word "election" in it. The phrase simply means the election was not legitimate. The only way for you to believe this "turd" is a "strawberry" is if. quite frankly, you can't read or you didn't actually click on the article. It's not our job to cater to those who have no interest in actually reading what Wikipedia has to tell them. To quote Benjamin Franklin, "Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn". DarkSide830 (talk) 03:34, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – There is no clause that excludes one-party or unfair elections from being posted to ITN. DecafPotato (talk) 21:40, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait We have no idea how any potential discussion on the removal of Cuban parliamentary elections from R might go, best to let that play out first, like with the despised and printed rocket failure. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:38, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question do we post Chinese parliamentary (not merely Xi) elections? Because I feel that's the most appropriate comparison/precedent here. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 02:21, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It depends. Do RS come out and confirm politics (not merely government) as a significant motive and do we feel that an election winner of that motive is sufficiently interesting to post? If so, sure, sounds like news. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:43, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Hmmm, I don't see either of those things here. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 03:55, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Precisely. So we Oppose. We may still disagree on whether a political motive is more crucial to promoting potentially developing election coverage than in the retelling of a relatively popular modern horror story as it unfolds. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:28, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per comrade InedibleHulk. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 05:39, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Yes elections are ITNR, but that is not the sole criteria. Firstly we have to look at the article quality (per ITNR itself) which is completely absent here, a few barebones paras mostly about the results without any contextual information on the history, conduct, impact and analysis. Secondly, we have to look at the precedent for such noms here on ITN; we have not posted elections or other leadership changes in similar one-party communist states beyond the general secretary positions, i.e., who actually holds power. The recent examples being China and Vietnam. This fails on both criterias, and I see no reason to deviate. Gotitbro (talk) 06:57, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good points. Looking at the detail, there's some mysteries which the article doesn't explain. The number of seats was reduced by over a hundred but it's not clear what the practical effect of this has been. And exactly how many are there? There's a couple of numbers floating around – 470 and 474 – but which is it? I get the impression that the detail is fuzzy because it doesn't much matter. The actual headline figure seems to be the turnout as the closest thing the system gives to a verdict on the government (which doesn't change). Andrew🐉(talk) 08:16, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Elections are ITNR because the assumption is that they are of political significance and therefore in the news. This assumption does not apply in the case of sham elections of rubberstamp parliaments in autocracies, because such "elections" have no political impact. Sandstein 09:06, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Covenant School shooting

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2023 Covenant School shooting (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Seven people including the shooter are killed in a mass shooting at the Covenant school in Nashville USA (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the United States, seven people are killed, including the perpetrator, in a mass shooting at the Covenant School in Nashville, Tennessee.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In the United States, a transgender person kills six people in a mass shooting at the Covenant School in Nashville, Tennessee, before being killed by police. (NOTE: Only include this if allegations of this being a hate crime or relating to the perpretrator's transgender identity are true)
News source(s): BBC, CNN Al Jazeera
Credits:
Nominator's comments: I'm not going to convince anyone with this so instead I will plead with you to be civil. If we cannot than I think we should consider asking the arbitration committee to lay down some sort of law. Aure entuluva (talk) 02:32, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Mass shootings such as this are commonplace in the United States.
NoahTalk 02:43, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait @Hurricane Noah, although shootings are common in the US, we usually tend to post those with a peculiar motive. From what it seems there's a decent chance that this may have been a politically motivated shooting, with the perpetrator being transgender and possibly being motivated by transphobia and the like. However, since WP:RSes are slow to progress and all of these claims are still in dispute and unverified, it's best to wait. If these accusations are authenticated, I will support.
Crusader1096 (message) 02:51, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm just concerned with the fact there have been 9 shootings with more victims than this one thus far this year and that there has been a mass shooting five of the past seven days. NoahTalk 02:57, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Major news story, #1 story in the U.S. today, high quality article to post. For the purposes of ITN, the number that happen per year is irrelevant. Motive is irrelevant. The other mass shootings don't get this kind of news coverage. The ones that rise to "No Way to Prevent This" mockery are the almost 1:1 the ones that we should be posting. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:17, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The other mass shootings don't get this kind of news coverage; I would disagree with this statement at the moment to be honest. With most mass shootings of this scale, there's a lot of instant coverage which tapers off in the following days. Curbon7 (talk) 03:46, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Many mass shootings don't have Wikipedia articles because they don't get this kind of news coverage. And "instant coverage which tapers off in the following days" refers to a lot of what ITN posts, or should be posting. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:56, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Tragic, but as is the case with many of these shootings, not notable to ITN levels. DarkSide830 (talk) 04:02, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - an absurd nomination. Six deaths in a US shooting - that must make it Tuesday. We've had this discussion before. Reading the nomination statement, User:Hurricane Noah nominated this fully knowing it wouldn't go through. Isn't that disrupting Wikipedia to make a point? Nfitz (talk) 04:19, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    However, it isn't Hurricane Noah–I don't see their green glow with a splotch of red at the end of the nominator statement! Tails Wx 04:35, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Wx ... I completely misread the first three posts! Nfitz (talk) 04:43, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment by the nominator The notability isn't from the death count as much as it is from where the shooting happened. People care about children and school shootings are rare even in the US. By my count there have been 14 school shootings with more deaths in US history. Source: US school shooting before 2000, US school shootings since 2000 Aure entuluva (talk) 05:13, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
  • Note I support the close for the moment but am prepared to re-open the discussion if strong evidence emerges that this was some sort of terrorist/anti-religiously motivated incident. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:30, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question why is this closed with a yellow box? Banedon (talk) 01:00, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note Regardless of motive, I think RS have made it pretty clear that a woman who is also a man and shoots up a school that is also a church is a "sufficiently interesting" type of shooter, at least compared to a simple terrorist who shoots women anywhere mostly because he's a man with a political preference for men. Even if you just think of her as a woman who shot someone else's children, that's pretty unusual. But yeah, viewed purely in terms of an American with a gun and inclusive death toll, he or she doesn't stand out. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:33, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note 2 Please do not delete other editors' comments because you do not agree with them. The close on this nomination is not a hard close and may be re-opened by any editor in good standing who believes the facts now available justify further discussion. FWIW I am ambivalent on that question. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:14, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note 3 The box this was closed with used to be yellow, only one of us knows why and it doesn't matter anymore. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:08, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – For the record, this is still in news around the world, which is a longer period than I recall (most) other U.S. shootings getting, and there are a lot of investigations into the motive and background of the perpetrator. I didn't !vote in the pre-close discussing, but I would be open to re-opening the discussion, as this is very much still a developing story. DecafPotato (talk) 02:46, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    What is news around this is the return to the non-debate around gun control, with Democrats trying to push on it hard, while Republicans are deflecting this on the shooter being a trans person. There's little about the actual shooting that's in the news at this point compared to the politic debate. Masem (t) 03:04, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Which I think does contribute to the significance of this shooting in particular, no? DecafPotato (talk) 03:41, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 26

[edit]

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Politics and elections


RD: Bill Zehme

[edit]
Article: Bill Zehme (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Thriley (talk) 16:28, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Virginia Norwood

[edit]
Article: Virginia Norwood (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Looks ready. Thriley (talk) 11:05, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) The Boat Race

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: The Boat Race 2023 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Cambridge University win the men's and women's events of The Boat Race. (Post)
News source(s): The Times, The Guardian
Credits:
 Whizz40 (talk) 18:49, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm unsurprised that the article is of far lesser quality than previous years, since it's since been removed from ITN/R. Well done, everyone. Black Kite (talk) 19:04, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, it's not just that, it's the relentless hatred that's stopped me bothering. Fuck it, why bother? The ex-colonials win and the encyclopedia loses. Standard stuff these days. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:20, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If this article was of the quality of previous years, I would have supported, not that it would help with the below. I do think the arguments of ITN being only suitable for surprising things that aren't scheduled events to be reasonably blind that almost everything outside of an act of God is scheduled, and something being "amateur" or "niche" isn't of itself not culturally relevant. If you do want to fix it up, or just want someone to update the item, drop me a line. Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 19:40, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Theres only one person showing any type of vendetta here, but apparently its just the ex-colonists (imagine thinking being a colonizer is a good thing lol) lashing out. There is exactly one person acting like a child here. Guess who it is. nableezy - 20:07, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Nobody appears rosy here, and I certainly find it depressing that you indirectly referred to an editor's long-time work as unimportant crap. I ask again the same question posed by Muboshgu: How have we improved the encyclopedia through this rabid and toxic bickering? WaltClipper -(talk) 20:30, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The Boat Race is unimportant crap. The articles are lovely. They can still be on the main page as DYK and FA when they make GA and FA. They just dont belong "In The News" because the news (worldwide) largely ignores it as unimportant. Asked and answered on the question. But the only toxicity is coming from one person here. One person you seem disinclined to say anything about. nableezy - 20:35, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Could you show a little sensitivity and civility here? 331dot (talk) 20:39, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sure if Im not called an ex-colonial who fucked it all up for a large number of people. Strange sliding scale you have for civility. And why does this need sensitivity? Compared to things like this I think Im a paragon of sensitivity and civility. But theres that sliding scale I guess. nableezy - 20:46, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • That this was removed from ITNR kinda shows ITN has lost its way and purpose. The vitriol here doesn't help. The article involved might have gotten more work and attention had there been a willingness to post it, as it has previously. Does that help the encyclopedia? If you want Michigan v Ohio State posted, nominate it and tell us why. Neither Michigan or Ohio State is as old as Cambridge and Oxford, but maybe we've missed something. This longtime race watched live by hundreds of thousands and on TV by millions between two ancient universities is important to some, even if others don't think so. We should be thinking about readers here and we're not. Sorry to digress but, that's my two cents. And I do support this on the merits. 331dot (talk) 20:39, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    If I can pay attention and update the article, having no interest in the race and taking vitriol, anyone can. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:42, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality. NoahTalk 20:43, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I recommend removing this nomination until the article has been improved further. When it is more complete it could be renominated. Please do not be deterred by the negativism in this thread, of which there is sadly too much. Last year's Boat Race article became featured. This one could be featured too, and appear on the home page through that alternative, if not through the News. Jehochman Talk 20:48, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per all of the above - User:Editor 5426387 (talk) 20;50, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: María Kodama

[edit]
Article: María Kodama (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Buenos Aires Herald
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Jorge Luis Borges' widow and the sole owner of the rights to his work. Needs more update. BorgQueen (talk) 03:31, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Oladipo Diya

[edit]
Article: Oladipo Diya (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Premium Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Nigerian military officer; article needs some more update – Ammarpad (talk) 21:00, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Innocent (actor)

[edit]
Article: Innocent (actor) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times of India
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Innocent Vareed Thekkethala an actor and Indian MP . Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 19:11, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 25

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology


(Posted) RD: Nick Lloyd Webber

[edit]
Article: Nick Lloyd Webber (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [9], [10], [11]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Son of Andrew Lloyd Webber, followed his father's footsteps and became a composer. Article looks good, well cited. Ollieisanerd (talk) 19:20, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Frank LeMaster

[edit]
Article: Frank LeMaster (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Philadelphia Eagles
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: First reported by the Eagles on March 25, although he died on March 23. BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:03, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing: 2023 New South Wales state election

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2023 New South Wales state election (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Still being counted, but it the winner has been declared.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
  • I suppose so, but considering it was three quick opposes on an item that would already be highly unlikely to post considering precedence, in my opinion it was justified. The Kip (talk) 14:50, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't think that's a reasonable request at all. WP:SNOW is dominating. We've had a long-standing rule not to post the elections of individual states within a federation unless there's a very good reason. Now, I'd like to see that rule loosened somewhat, but if we started posting every subnational election, that's all ITN would ever be. --RockstoneSend me a message! 22:14, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • God damnit, I didn't say post every bloody subnational election (and no, we don't have a "long-standing rule"), please do not insinuate that was what I meant. I said can we not SNOW close good-faith nominations within an hour. I thought we were collectively going to try and steer away from making ITN/C a walled garden culture. WaltClipper -(talk) 13:42, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Ongoing: Protests in Israel

[edit]
Article: 2023 Israeli anti-judicial reform protests (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:

Nominator's comments: This has been going on for a while now, and just now Netenyahu's defence minister publicaly called on him to freeze the legislation. It's a big deal and there have been threats of civil war. Son OThe Desert (Talk) 18:31, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Compared to the current French ones, where the number of protestors have been near a million, the numbers here are far less significant. I realize recent changes may cause these to grow. However, I would point out the same issue that most of our protest articles start as: a pure timeline without a significant background section and larger narrative section is not very helpful to readers. Masem (t) 19:33, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As a proportion of the population I wouldnt say that this is less significant. nableezy - 19:47, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A bit late, but with ~700,000 Israeli protesters (7-8% of the population) it’s hard to say so. Juxlos (talk) 01:50, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - this was nominated before last month, but it was dismissed as "politics as usual." This is anything but: this can have immense ramifications for Israeli politics and can change the very structure of the country's government. Additionally, @Masem's point regarding the French protests is misleading; 1.5% of France is protesting, and with these protests, as many as nearly 3% have been protesting in Israel. The comparison is not apt. However, I will agree with you @Masem in that it should be expanded into more of an article of proper prose. Crusader1096 (message) 23:12, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Per above PrecariousWorlds (talk) 11:38, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Asteroid 2023 DZ2

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Proposed image
Article: 2023 DZ2 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Asteroid 2023 DZ2 (pictured) makes a close pass between the Earth and the Moon. (Post)
News source(s): BBC; NPR
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: A near miss this time, it seems, but it will return so it's a reminder of the importance of rocketry and space development. Relevant agencies will be using this as a drill/exercise for planetary defense. Andrew🐉(talk) 17:47, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - NEO passes happen a lot, obviously didn't hit anything, no real reason why we should post it. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 11:39, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Einstein problem

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Proposed image
Articles: Aperiodic tiling (talk · history · tag) and Einstein problem (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The einstein problem is solved by a single shape that tiles a plane without repeating (pictured). (Post)
News source(s): Science News; New Scientist
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Thanks to GenevieveDEon for suggesting this. The maths requires care to define exactly but its visual nature makes it more accessible than most maths breakthroughs and so we should take this opportunity to show our readers the remarkable new hat shape. There are at least two possible target articles and so I've highlighted them both. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:08, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Done, thanks. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:19, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Science News reports that "While the paper has yet to be peer-reviewed, the experts interviewed for this article agree that the result seems likely to hold up to detailed scrutiny." Formal publication might take months or years and, by then, the result will be well known and the news will be stale. This therefore seems the best window for us to share this development. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:29, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's helpful, thank you. If the articles can be improved, I would be inclined to reverse my position. GenevieveDEon (talk) 14:32, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We always wait on the publication of a peer-reviewed paper for ITN. Masem (t) 15:45, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, we don't. Just about nothing that appears at ITN is based on a peer-reviewed paper that has been through the ponderous process of academic publishing. Instead, most stories are based on news reports and press releases. For example, see the Afghan earthquake which has just been posted. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:21, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For all scientific and medical-based stories (this is one), we expect a peer-reviewed source per SCIRS and MEDRS. Newspapers and the general media are not experts to be able to judge if the results are valid. Masem (t) 18:27, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, the details of a recent earthquake, such as its magnitude, are a scientific matter – that science is seismology. The same applies to other occurrences such as weather (meteorology), space (astronomy and astrophysics), &c. Just about everything is covered in some way by academia but we do not require peer-reviewed papers. What we require is that it's in the news. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:01, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There's a bit of a difference between the occurrence of a massive natural disaster (reported by mainstream news, with immediate and up-to-date facts) and the solving of a long-standing math problem (which still requires peer-review to confirm). The Kip (talk) 01:00, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The key difference is that insisting on a different level of sourcing for mathematics introduces an arbitrary and systemic bias. It accentuates ITN's tendency to run topics which are recurring, repetitive and routine while shutting out those which are actually new. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:48, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, given how math proofs can generally be easily verified by other skilled mathematicians, compared to other scientific fields where the peer-review has to be based on an assessment of the data quality and methods used rather than recreation, expecting a peer-reviewed source for a mathematics proof is absolutely reasonable and within expectations.
Now, in a case like this, where the result is an interesting result but one with little practical application, as opposed to demonstrating, hypothetically, that NP-hard problems can be solved in P-time which would have massive impacts on computing technology, that the news is reporting it prior to a peer-review shows that its more a curiosity than a groundbreaking discovery. So we're not creating a bias here. Masem (t) 13:27, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Let's look at the evidence and do the math. There's 10 nominations at WP:ITN/C currently which are STEM in some way. The only ones which have been posted are those which feature some deaths - the earthquake and tornado. So, that's all that matters in practise. But the trouble is that "if it bleeds, it leads" is a journalistic, tabloid sensibility. ITN is posting sensational stories and snubbing science. That's systemic bias. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:33, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Per @Masem. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 16:18, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(posted) RD: Gordon Moore

[edit]
Article: Gordon Moore (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 02:24, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • I definitely wouldn't consider this to be an obvious blurb. Gordon Moore is not a name that everyone would know (i.e. not really a household name), and I doubt the average person has heard of Moore's law either. A highly influential businessman and engineer, who co-founded and oversaw a company that could stake a legitimate claim to having changed the world, but I feel like blurbs are generally reserved for individuals who are known to pretty near everyone. Kurtis (talk) 10:50, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd support a blurb; Steve Jobs had one when he died, and I'd say Moore was just as significant if not more. DFlhb (talk) 12:59, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The difference is that Steve Jobs was a household name—everyone knew who he was. Gordon Moore is certainly a major figure in electronics engineering (indeed, I argue above that Moore flat-out changed the world) but he doesn't have the same name recognition. Kurtis (talk) 18:08, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD, Oppose blurb - Notable figure, but not enough to warrant a blurb.
I feel like we need an ITN/R for recent deaths, so we can figure out who is notable enough for a blurb and who isn't. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 17:43, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Call it ITN/BD for blurbable deaths and put Gene Hackman and William Shatner on the list. Fdfexoex (talk) 18:29, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's a bit of a morbid subject, but yes I think we should probably post them when they die (hopefully later rather than sooner). PrecariousWorlds (talk) 11:45, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Creating such a list would be impossible. When examining those recent deaths that do occur and determining whether they are eligible for a blurb, one of the factors that comes into play is the suddenness or unexpectedness of the death. For example, if the currently-serving head of state of a country dropped dead tomorrow, this would or should prompt a blurb (notwithstanding those editors who have their own personal criteria that exclude all but the most transcendent people from receiving blurbs). As a famous figure becomes older and gains distance from the apex of their career, it becomes more difficult to justify them having a blurb. The list would need to be changing constantly in order to reflect the reality of the current consensus. I don't think anyone would be up to the task. --WaltClipper -(talk) 14:19, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'll also note that whether to blurb a recent death depends, for some of us, on the extent to which their article is updated, following their death. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 08:48, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 24

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime


(Attention Needed) Pennsylvania chocolate factory explosion

[edit]
Article: 2023 Pennsylvania chocolate factory explosion (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the United States, seven people die and ten people are injured following an explosion at a chocolate factory in West Reading, Pennsylvania. (Post)
News source(s): NYT (paywalled) - CNN - CBS
Credits:

Nominator's comments: High casualty event that surprisingly went under my radar (did anyone else hear about this? I legit just learned about this today). Unusual in its area. - Knightsoftheswords281 i.e Crusader1096 ( Talk Contribs Wikis ) 22:31, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for different reasons. I honestly don't think that this is "in the news". As you yourself mentioned "High casualty event that surprisingly went under my radar (did anyone else hear about this? I legit just learned about this today)." so this really isn't in the news. Heck, even I rarely heard anything about it. It is definitely unusual though so my mind could change. Though I will say, the I don't like the comment "A mass casualty explosion at a factory in a first world country is 'not notable?'" kind of implies that if it happened in a third world country the overall impact would be "lesser". Onegreatjoke (talk) 14:30, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think the impact is more pronounced given that that industrial catastrophes of this scale typically occur in third world countries with more lax building regulations, etc. Not saying its inherently less important, but to be honest, if someone stated that a factory blew up, resulting in seven dead and ten injuries, without prior context, I personally would assume it to be a third world country.

Also, although media coverage seems to have been limited, mainstream sources like CNN, NYT, and CBS are still covering it (see listed sources above). - Knightsoftheswords281 i.e Crusader1096 ( Talk Contribs Wikis ) 14:50, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Honeslty, i do think the article is too stubby though. The timeline (why is the section called timeline?) and the background sections could use a bit more expansion. Onegreatjoke (talk) 18:56, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Oppose on Quality By killing or wounding more than twelve, becoming known to me at the time and having the extraordinary chocolate factory twist, this story meets the InedibleHulk MCE Bar of Approval. I don't think we should name the company, though. Too promotional, too little previously earned notability. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:58, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose solely on article quality. Take out the reactions and you have all of nine sentences about the event. That's not enough. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:43, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support Article is much improved. But not really sure of the level of coverage of this event. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:25, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on Quality. While I am pleased to see this article was created (because it did not appear to exist last time I checked), it is still a bit stubby as Onegreatjoke noted. And even regardless of the quality issues this may fall a little below the notability line (I feel compelled to vote Neutral on Importance here as this is a local story for me and I'll make sure to abstain to prevent bias). DarkSide830 (talk) 23:13, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Striking quality oppose, though I think notability's still going to miss here. DarkSide830 (talk) 23:30, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: A little thin in terms of depth, with the article overly reliant on two big quotations that could probably be shortened and integrated into existing text. SpencerT•C 03:40, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose because this is not notable enough. Factory explosions happen quite frequently, and the only thing that makes this stand out is that it's a chocolate factory. Additionally, it's too short to cover all the necessary stuff. Octopusplushie (talk) 20:22, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Onegreatjoke, @InedibleHulk, @Ad Orientem, @DarkSide830, @Spencer, @Octopusplushie, article has been greatly expanded in the past few days, do y'all still oppose? - Knightsoftheswords281 (Talk-Contribs) 21:58, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sources look to be good, just maybe provide a smidge more detail about its results and you would have my Support vote. :) Octopusplushie (talk) 23:20, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Tornado outbreak of March 24–25, 2023

[edit]
Article: Tornado outbreak of March 24–25, 2023 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 26 are killed in a tornado outbreak in Mississippi and Alabama, United States (Post)
News source(s): BBC ABC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Tornado outbreak with an unusually large death count (it struck at night) that is expected to rise. Better image likely to come. Teemu08 (talk) 13:12, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support - per above. RIP. Also, support @RandomInfinity17's calls for the other image to be used, with the blurb acknowledging that the picture shows the wider tornado system. Crusader1096 (message) 16:10, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. There appears to be a dissonance between the fatality number reported in multiple sections of the article. The Rolling Fork-Silver City tornado section mentions the fatality number as both 19 and 23, while two more are added for Amory. I believe we should rectify this before ITN posting. DarkSide830 (talk) 16:19, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As per above. The article is in good shape. --Maxxies (talk) 16:56, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support

Deeply saddening event with extreme damage and a high death toll, so I strongly support this being posted onto ITN User:Idontknowlol7

Support: unfortunate but important. Article seems ready –lomrjyotalk 01:34, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: The image associated with this nomination does not have copyright information associated with it, and it is NOT free for use. This needs to be changed before publishing. wxtrackercody (talk · contributions) 02:32, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I would do Late March 2023 Tornado Outbreak 2023-03-25 1406Z.jpg, satellite imagery of the outbreak on March 25. Infinity (talk - contributions) 02:49, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    We really need to fix this immediately. That image absolutely should not be used, it's not free. Planet specifically says on their website

    Planet’s imagery that is posted online via our owned media channels (i.e., Planet.com, social media and in the press) is done so under creative common CC-BY-NC-SA. Under this license, you are free to share and adapt our imagery as long as you correctly attribute it to Planet (e.g. ©Planet Labs PBC, CC BY-NC-SA 2.0), and properly indicate any change that is made to the imagery. The imagery may not be sold or commercialized under this creative commons license, but interested parties can reach out to images@planet.com to discuss licensing our imagery data for commercial purposes.

    I'm not sure if the press piece applies, I saw it widely shared on social media but not by anyone associated with Planet. Philipnelson99 (talk) 04:14, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I support using this image as a replacement for the Planet imagery now that it's been removed. Philipnelson99 (talk) 04:25, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Epeli Ganilau

[edit]
Article: Epeli Ganilau (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [12]
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Notable Fijian political figure. Article is lengthy and extensive, but is unfortunately basically unsourced. I'll try my best to remedy it. Crusader1096 (message) 16:45, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jean-Jacques Favier

[edit]
Article: Jean-Jacques Favier (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [13]
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German-French astronaut who flew for NASA. Article needs work however. Crusader1096 (message) 16:45, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 23

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Science and technology

  • The world's first rocket made by extensive 3D printing, Terran 1, makes its first launch but fails to reach orbit. (NYT)

Sports


RD: Jerry Green (writer)

[edit]
Article: Jerry Green (writer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [14]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 03:06, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] IAAF bans trans athletes

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Transgender people in sports (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: World Athletics bans transgender women from competing in female world ranking events (Post)
News source(s): BBC; CNN Guadrian SkyNews Reuters ESPN
Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: Seems to be of worldwide notability, zeitgeist; article editing is semi-locked. 2A02:2F0B:B604:E100:E022:4DF3:6412:3E6F (talk) 23:38, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Except that it is considered a temporary measure until they debate how to handle trans athletes further, and currently has zero effects on competing athletes. Masem (t) 00:42, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Temporary decision, article isn't of sufficient quality. I can see the notability, but how does this actually affect most sports in the world? PrecariousWorlds (talk) 20:34, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Good faith nom, but its temporary for now, so its significance is still up in the air. Crusader1096 (message) 06:22, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Needs work The article needs updating to reflect the latest rule changes. And it's rather ongoing as there were previous rules and there will be a working party on more. Getting the technicalities about testosterone right seems complex. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:04, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm afraid we would never be able to feature something without an updated article, so I would recommend getting active in editing in the field (perhaps starting with non-locked articles initially, to learn the ropes). ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 14:16, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – the target article hasn't even been edited at all in over ten days. DecafPotato (talk) 16:46, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Terran 1 launch

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Terran 1 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A rocket made by extensive 3D printingTerran 1 – makes its first launch but fails to reach orbit. (Post)
News source(s): NYT; BBC;
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: WP:ITN/R includes "The first and last launches of any type of rocket". Andrew🐉(talk) 09:47, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'll reiterate my frequent refrain that space exploration is poorly suited to ITN/R, as we will inevitably find ourselves parsing whether what the thing did matches the wording of the guideline. That said, I cannot even tell what the thing did at this stage, so Wait for article to be fleshed out. GreatCaesarsGhost 11:23, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am open to an article like this for ITN, and this could be the humble start of quite cheaply produced rocketry! But it's not a particularly big-impact mission as it stands, nor is it particularly promising just yet. If the article were a solid B-class with a lot of detail, I would be happy to see it featured, but right now it doesn't feel ready for the front page. Waiting until a rocket by this team reaches orbit might be more helpful for our project, but I can already see that being mass-opposed when the time comes... ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 12:40, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The article hasn't been expanded since the nomination, so I feel like Oppose, as the article doesn't feel particularly ready for a prominent feature on the front page. I'd rather wait for a successful launch, with the hope that the article will be more impressive at that time. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 12:34, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Definitely a first for a printjob, maybe the last of the Terrans, update reasonably complete. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:44, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support Sure...article does need expansion, but this is ITN/R. I don't know, honestly. Cheers. WimePocy 13:16, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for ITN/R reasons. MarioJump83 (talk) 14:49, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Comment While this is a very interesting news, I don't think it is ITN-worthy at this time. I would prefer to wait until they have a successful launch. Otherwise, this could be perceived as promoting indirectly someone's business.--Maxxies (talk) 15:59, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The current ITN/R guidelines state that the first launch of any rocket, whether successful or unsuccessful, automatically satisfies the notability requirement for an item. If you would like to propose a change in those guidelines, you are invited to do so at WT:ITN.--WaltClipper -(talk) 17:09, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Noted. Thanks. Maxxies (talk) 18:44, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We have (very rarely) IAR'd to not post something ITNR in the past, including one instance a few months ago. Curbon7 (talk) 18:51, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Which was? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:00, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sagittarian Milky Way, I think it was another rocket launch, if I recall correctly. I don't remember which or exactly when. Curbon7 (talk) 06:08, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've occasionally wondered if an engineering student firing a sounding rocket made of polydiketoenamine past the Karman Line would count as an ITN/R launch. --WaltClipper -(talk) 17:27, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
To be honest, if this thought can to mind, perhaps we should consider going to try for a discussion at WT:ITN? TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 17:48, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would strongly encourage it, I'd open it myself except I'm not confident in my argumentative ability. The Kip (talk) 18:06, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry, I opened it up. WT:ITN. TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 18:16, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support - the fact that its 3D printed makes it somewhat notable in that regard IMO. Crusader1096 (message) 18:32, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • IAR Oppose – Yes, it's ITN/R, but it feels like only by a technicality, and doesn't have the significance to actually be on ITN. DecafPotato (talk) 19:37, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not notable enough. NoahTalk 20:03, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment IAR opposes really need to be an overwhelming consensus (somewhere in the range of 95%) in order to be considered sufficient to bar an ITN/R item from posting. In other words, it has to be something that contravenes the spirit of the ITN/R criterion if not the letter. In addition, straight-up vote-votes like "not notable" are about as helpful to a posting admin as no rationale at all. Really, the best place to make a case is on WT:ITN, where this is already being discussed. --WaltClipper -(talk) 20:17, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    A support !vote specifically saying that they disagree that it should be posted but reluctantly support because of its ITN/R status are a very strong case for how this shouldn't be posted. And like I said, I feel as though this is only ITN/R by a technicality without any established significance, which, in my opinion, contravenes the spirit of the ITN/R criterion if not the letter. DecafPotato (talk) 20:49, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strongly support the story, but wait until orbit - ITN/R, my guys. And as for the legitimacy of this being ITN/R, I think it's
a. Good to have positive, diverse stories to post
b. This is the first flight of a new orbital rocket by a new company, which alone is quite notable, especially considering the massively growing significance of the space industry on our every day lives
c. 3D printing technology pushed to a new extreme, which only adds to the notability.
Unfortunately, I don't think it should be posted until a successful orbital launch, which will probably be soon. I feel like ITN/R should be updated to say that only successful orbital launches be notable (though one near-future exception to this could be the maiden launch of SpaceX Starship, if it ends in failure). PrecariousWorlds (talk) 20:23, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Umm... to 3D-print almost an entire fracking rocket is no small-scale development, hence support. --Ouro (blah blah) 16:49, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Previously, such aerospace vehicles were hand-crafted which is quite labour-intensive. The 3D printing process makes manufacture more automated and mechanical, lowering costs significantly. It enables construction of complex geometries such as cooling arrays for nozzles and these can be redesigned and iterated much more easily. It also simplifies the supply chain by bringing more of the construction in house. As it's quite a radical change in the way such vehicles are built, passing the stress test of max q was an important validation of it. To characterise this as just another launch is to completely miss the point. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:42, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 22

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

  • One person is killed after a four-storey building collapses in Doha, Qatar. (AP)

Politics and elections

Science and technology


(Posted) RD: Lucy Salani

[edit]
Article: Lucy Salani (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [15]
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: She was the only Italian transgender person that survived Nazi concentration camps. I should note that she actually passed away on 22 March. Also, I would like to thank everyone who helped clean this article up, and especially KamillaŚ, who translated it from it.wiki in the first place. --Oltrepier (talk) 17:45, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Kéné Ndoye

[edit]
Article: Kéné Ndoye (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [16]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: death was reported recently in some english-language reports. Rushtheeditor (talk) 20:42, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2022 Turing Award

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Robert Metcalfe (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Robert Metcalfe (pictured) wins the Turing Award for the invention of the Ethernet. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Just announced, so articles are still being updated. Joofjoof (talk) 10:47, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2023 Abel prize

[edit]
Article: Luis Caffarelli (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Luis Caffarelli was awarded the Abel Prize for contributions to regularity theory for nonlinear partial differential equations (Post)
News source(s): https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/mar/22/the-messi-of-maths-argentinian-luis-caffarelli-wins-abel-prize
Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 Fdfexoex (talk) 01:29, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 21

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

  • LGBT rights in Uganda
    • The parliament of Uganda approves a bill with harsher provisions against homosexual relationships. The bill includes the charges of "aggravated homosexuality" and "attempted homosexuality" with sentences of up to 10 years in prison. (AP)

Science and technology

Sports


(Posted) 2023 Badakhshan earthquake

[edit]
Article: 2023 Badakhshan earthquake (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: A 6.5 Mw earthquake in Afghanistan and Pakistan kills at least 30 people and injures 383. (Post)
News source(s): CNN, Reuters, Guardian
Credits:

 Ainty Painty (talk) 10:39, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support - article is decent, I've seen shorter article be posted to ITN. Crusader1096 (message) 18:33, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) World Baseball Classic

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2023 World Baseball Classic championship (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In baseball, Japan defeats the United States to win the World Baseball Classic (MVP Shohei Ohtani pictured). (Post)
News source(s): [17]
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 02:44, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose until it's updated. NoahTalk 02:47, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hurricane Noah, it's updated. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:15, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support updated, article in good shape, notable, good image, no issues with blurb! Tails Wx 03:18, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I don't think we need "In baseball" because that's obvious from "World Baseball Classic." Jehochman Talk 03:50, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article looks good! Layah50♪ ( 話して~! ) 03:53, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support looks good. Amazing game --TorsodogTalk 06:05, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Absolutely. This year's edition of WBC may have been a bigger baseball tournament than World Series ever was. MarioJump83 (talk) 07:27, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Tweaked because of "defeats" vs "defeat" MOS:ENGVAR debate. Also, the general WBC page should be included.—Bagumba (talk) 09:06, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't understand why this blurb with a quite thin article (limited text) was posted that fast after just a few hours, while other blurbs with many more supports are posted days later. I have serious questions on this process. Things need to be fair and consistent, otherwise the credibility is lost. Maxxies (talk) 22:15, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't post stubs or poorly sourced pages. It had a game summary of multiple paragraphs. The other subjective criteria, I leave to the participants (or I otherwise !vote), and there was unanimous support among a handful of participants after many hours. Regards. —Bagumba (talk) 02:53, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I respectfully disagree strongly. This does not address the weaknesses of the article pointed out after it was posted and how the process is fair and consistent. While I certainly support the idea of having blurbs posted for current events as soon as possible, very few people had the opportunity to provide their comments, especially those who live in the Americas, in Europe and Africa. The blurb was proposed late in the evening/night and posted in the middle of the night/early morning. Does it mean that we should stay awake all night? My goal is here is to foster an inclusive environment and facilitate engagement of most for quality blurbs and articles. Otherwise, some people may feel that their commitment to ITN may not be worth their time and effort. Maxxies (talk) 05:10, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I posted based on the !votes at the time. No problem if consensus happens to change afterwards. There is no minimum wait time, and this is not close, timewise, to other posts that have been faster. We are all volunteers here, so nobody should expect anyone to "stay awake all night". However, we have historically posted once there is consensus among a sufficient number of participants. If the community wishes tighter guidelines than what has been done in the past, they are free form a consensus to amend WP:ITN/A, which reads: Editors at ITN/C declare their support or opposition and, after a few hours, it's usually fairly clear if enough people express reasonable arguments in favour of posting. If the consensus is not entirely clear, consider letting the nomination run for more time, especially if the nomination is less than 24 hours old.Bagumba (talk) 05:40, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Considering a handful of supports before posting can only increase the risk of bias. At this time, I am not confident that the process is fair and consistent. I rest my case. Maxxies (talk) 07:06, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The article is still quite lacking in background and explanation. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:05, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Where?--WaltClipper -(talk) 12:18, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
See the previous nomination for details. Generally, the article is quite sketchy. For a more developed example, see 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup which has about 5 times the prose and hasn't even started yet. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:17, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Bit of an unequal comparison, considering one is solely the championship article and one is for an entire tournament. The Kip (talk) 14:26, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I hadn't understood that the article is just about a single game in this event. That seems odd as our articles usually cover all of a tournament. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:19, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Tournament blurbs usually have a target article of the championship game/final rather than the tournament as a whole. The Kip (talk) 19:23, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If the tournament is held over a couple of weeks as a concentrated event, as this was, then we'd usually report the entire tournament. For example, 2023 Men's FIH Hockey World Cup or 2023 Australian Open. Andrew🐉(talk) 00:27, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, the posted blurb links to both the general tournament and the individual final, though the final itself is the only thing bolded. DecafPotato (talk) 01:04, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment While I'm obviously not voting to pull; I hate to agree with Andrew, but it's a worthwhile point that the article seems thin on prose. Not bad enough to pull, however. The Kip (talk) 14:24, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I concur. Curbon7 (talk) 14:36, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree as well. Hell, the road to the final section is pretty just a table and not a prose detailing how they got there. Also no aftermath section. Onegreatjoke (talk) 19:02, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    That prose is in the subarticles, and the table is sourced. What aftermath is missing? The players returned to spring training. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:09, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ah, the irony. Any sporting event that had as little prose as this one, but was one from outside the USAsphere, would immediately have been opposed by multiple people for exactly that reason. The article is crap; a five-line summary of the final and nothing else. Well done, everyone. Might be useful as a future "well this was posted, so ..." example, though. Black Kite (talk) 19:14, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It wasn't even on free TV or basic cable in the US (in Japan 97.3% of TVs that were on were tuned in by the time of the stunning last ball (17 inches of perfectly aimed swing in the air at 87 mph after 102 mph) but Japan has few English speakers (Japanese to or from English is hard to learn (Less related than English and Bengali, badly correlated English soundoletters vs stylized pictograms, different sounds, l and r no longer the same phoneme, sentences are almost completely backwards. Phoneme splitting is hard! In some languages dark l vs light l can change meaning and English-only people like me don't even notice. But ace and ass we notice right away but Japanese only has 1 kind of A and only 5 vowels instead of 12+ in English))) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:32, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Look at ITNR sports articles that are posted. How many of them are longer than 2023 World Baseball Classic, 2023 World Baseball Classic Pool A, 2023 World Baseball Classic Pool B, 2023 World Baseball Classic Pool C, 2023 World Baseball Classic Pool D, 2023 World Baseball Classic knockout stage, and 2023 World Baseball Classic championship? Maybe that many of them are one article is confusing? Even if you consider the blurb only has the final game and the main tournament article, this is on par or better than most of what gets posted here. And for TV, ratings are up in the US and I bet a lot of people watched around the world, I'd love to see those numbers. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:07, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah I didn't see the problem. And American interest in the WBC seems to be growing as you said which is pretty cool, baseball gets to have something kind of like the soccer World Cup. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 06:07, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Looking at Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/December 2022 § (Posted) Argentina wins World Cup, the initial wait's and oppose's were because there was literally zero prose of the actual match at the time. It eventually got posted within 2 hours of the nomination with 5 support's and some unredacted wait's (presumably their concerns were resolved). —Bagumba (talk) 03:55, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Coverage To understand the event better, I just looked through the coverage in the NYT. I had to search for it because nothing is listed on its online front page, not even in the section at the bottom which summarises the sports section, The Athletic. That has six other stories such as "Can Princeton Crack the Elite Eight?" and "Fans Are Furious About the N.H.L.’s New Uniform Deal." But when you search, there are several articles about this event and, after reading them, two main points emerged. Firstly, that the MVP, Shohei Ohtani, is something special because he excels at both pitching and hitting and such all-round play is not usual in baseball at professional level. And, secondly, that the US has trouble fielding a team for this event because, somehow, it interferes with pre-season training for the regular season. The problem seems to be that the players don't actually get to play which I still don't fully understand. Anyway, our article doesn't seem to convey or explain these key points.
The general impression is what I gleaned from an earlier perusal – that the event is not well-established and supported like the World Series, say, but is still quite anomalous and shaky. And the issue for us here is that the nominated article does a poor job of explaining all this to the general reader. We are regularly told that ITN is not just for running headlines but is expected to highlight detailed, quality encyclopedic articles. Myself, I don't mind if articles aren't perfect because Wikipedia's focus is speed not perfection. But I do expect a level playing field in which all types of topic are held to the same standard.
Andrew🐉(talk) 08:52, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair none of the Ivy League basketballers have reached the top 8 in 44 years even though at least 1 of 8 schools is in the tournament each year and they only need to win 3 games in a row. It'll be interesting to see if brains can still beat jocks in post-1970s college basketball (a series of rule changes and, ironically, nerdier statistics have made it much harder) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:09, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The US team has these problems for a number of reasons: players in the world's 2nd strongest club league (Japan) seem much more likely to find the change of schedule and small risk of injury worth it (most years don't have a preseason tournament, players usually train then play exhibition training games this time of year), the regular season+postseason already fill about all space that's available at the current level of global heating. The record low is 23F/-5C and if they played spring training at home instead of Florida or Arizona then more games would get snowed on. Snow games are accepted in American football but undesirable in baseball. If they made spring training start before the current mid-February the players bodies wouldn't be able to heal as much as they could. Pitchers' throwing side ulnar collateral ligament especially, they tear at least a little every x years or so and only post-1974 surgeons knew how to let them play again by sowing on a replacement tendon (after a long potentially never complete heal, even Ohtani did this). It is very hard on the elbow to throw 102.0 mph like him with an anti-runup rule (pivot foot naked eye not touching ground rectangle at any time between standing still and release is a foul, the rectangle is only 6 inches front-to-back 24 left-to-right)) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:57, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support - While not as well-developed as other world championships in other sports, the WBC is clearly the premier international baseball tournament. The 'World' Series is a strictly North American event between regional teams; obviously we should post it, but it's on a par with the FA Cup, not the FIFA World Cup. The WBC, while it doesn't have the same high profile as the World Cup, is at least in the same tier as it. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:44, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Needs attention) Ryugu asteroid samples

[edit]
Article: 162173 Ryugu (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Scientists find the presence of uracil, one of the components of RNA, and vitamin B3 in the samples from asteroid 162173 Ryugu. (Post)
News source(s): Nature, CNN
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Per CNN, while "scientists have previously found nucleobases and vitamins in certain carbon-rich meteorites, [...] there was always the question of contamination by exposure to the Earth’s environment" and "since the Hayabusa2 spacecraft collected two samples directly from asteroid Ryugu and delivered them to Earth in sealed capsules, contamination can be ruled out". The findings are published in peer-reviewed Nature CommunicationsBrandmeistertalk 08:42, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. As interesting as this story is, it's hardly new information, just a corroboration of previous theory. For example, the article notes "Unlike in previous instances when nucleobases and vitamins were also found in certain carbon-rich meteorites, the contamination by exposure to the Earth’s environment was ruled out as the samples were collected directly from asteroid and delivered to Earth in sealed capsules." So it's probable that we've found such a meteorite before and simply were unable to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt there was no contamination. DarkSide830 (talk) 17:03, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support: This is definitely interesting news, but it is buried pretty deep into the article. The article is of good quality though, so this is a support from me.--WMrapids (talk) 22:50, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per @WMrapids. Crusader1096 (message) 03:26, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This finding suggests that the RNA-World of which the relics exist in many important biomolecules, see .e.g. here that gave rise to modern life, may be a universal feature of life throughout the universe, rather than only here on Earth. Count Iblis (talk) 07:17, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support - Very interesting news, and I'd like to see it posted, but I'm not sure if it's really notable. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:24, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I don't like opposing but the story seems lacking. The molecules in question are fairly simple organic compounds and so it's not surprising to confirm their presence. The sampling mission was posted at ITN in 2018 and this item is just part of the long tail of results. Checking for space news, there seem to be bigger stories. I've just nominated Terran 1 while Hakuto-R has just achieved lunar orbit, prior to a landing for the Emirates Lunar Mission. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:59, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on the simple basis that the update to our article isn't significant enough. If, inspired by this news, someone wrote a whole major section or article about the molecular analysis of Ryugu, then that might have been a meaningful article to feature. Here we'd basically be featuring the same text as we did a few years ago. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 14:06, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This is potentially extraordinary! --Ouro (blah blah) 16:45, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -per Count Iblis. Notable discovery with big implications. The article is in fine shape, a credit to the 'pedia. Opposers fail to convince me, though I agree it would be helpful to have more relevant text in the target article. Nevertheless, this is a Japanese space triumph with a payoff. Jusdafax (talk) 05:18, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This seems like notable scientific news (it’d be good to post notable scientific news more often) & the update seems sufficient. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 23:07, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Willis Reed

[edit]
Article: Willis Reed (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN, New York Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 19:06, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Support An NBA legend and the article is in decent shape. Aure entuluva (talk) 23:14, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Kazakh legislative election

[edit]
Article: 2023 Kazakh legislative election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Kazakhstan holds its first legislative election since the January 2022 unrest (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Kazakhstan's ruling party Amanat wins the legislative election
News source(s): Reuters, Euronews, DW, RFE/RL
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: This election is part of Kazakhstan's attempt at democratization and saw more parties win seats for the first time in nearly 20 years. ShadZ01 (talk) 04:13, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Could use a little expansion on the results, but seems ready enough for ITN. Estar8806 (talk) 00:07, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 20

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime


(Posted) RD: Virginia Zeani

[edit]
Article: Virginia Zeani (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Romanian-born opera singer Cielquiparle (talk) 09:58, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Paul Grant

[edit]
Article: Paul Grant (actor) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Fox News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British actor, declared brain dead on March 16, died March 20. Tails Wx 23:55, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Needs work The article completely fails to explain the subject's key feature – that he was remarkably short (4' 4") and styled himself "king of the dwarfs". Andrew🐉(talk) 09:21, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose Article goes as follows - short lead section, directly followed by the death section, with a singular note that repeats what is already said in the death section. Nothing on the subject, merely a stub. This needs fixing ASAP. Cheers. WimePocy 12:17, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Terry Norris

[edit]
Article: Terry Norris (actor) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-21/terry-norris-cop-shop-actor-dies-92/102122882
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australian actor and politician. HiLo48 (talk) 04:07, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

IPCC Sixth Assessment report

[edit]
Article: IPCC Sixth Assessment Report (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change completes its Sixth Assessment Report with a final warning. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change completes its Sixth Assessment Report, summarizing actions humans must take now for a 50% chance to avoid irreversible climate change by 2030.
News source(s): Guardian; The Times; NYT
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: As suggested below. There's work to do on the update... Andrew🐉(talk) 13:59, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - as mentioned, not really updated. Additionally, the blurb above leaves out too much information for the reader. The IPCC's 6th assessment on what? What was the warning about? Finally, I question the long term applicability of this story given how prior UN predictions about climate change have aged wildly unwell and its pretty obvious that when it comes to climate change, everyone is naturally incentivized to exaggerate the severity to generate clicks and attention. Crusader1096 (message) 14:51, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support - Yes, yes, WP:RGW, but this is massive, massive news - a wake-up call to the world, in case all the previous evidence wasn't convincing enough. And it's made headlines across multiple reliable sources. I find Knightoftheswords's oppose rationale unconvincing; any perceived lack of accuracy regarding any prior assessments by the United Nations does not and will not diminish the significance of their office nor of this story. --WaltClipper -(talk) 15:59, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Very significant even if the report would not get countries like mine to change their practices. MarioJump83 (talk) 16:18, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I would be less opposed to this nom if the major components of this report had not already been published. As the article acknowledges, this report is composed of three main parts, the most recent having been published nearly a year ago. While the headlines are about the finished report at the moment, if any country is only now having a "wake-up call", they must have been asleep over the past two years. DarkSide830 (talk) 16:27, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support - @Knightoftheswords281 makes some good points, and the blurb isn't fit for posting, but at the end of the day I do think this is an event that should be ITN/R. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 16:40, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose on noteworthiness. Article seems sufficient quality, but it's not clear to me that the mere publication of a report saying what was already well-known is itself significant. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 00:14, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Altblurb may be a little sensational. Not to understate the effects of climate change, but it sounds like we're directly commanding governments to change their policy in regards to the climate, by saying "actions humanity must take NOW to avoid global warming". Maybe I'm wrong though, what do you all think? PrecariousWorlds (talk) 15:59, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It also looks like it has a tense error; surely "outline" is meant to be "outlining". — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 16:09, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, I think you're right. Perhaps "The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change completes its Sixth Assessment Report, outlining what can be done to prevent climate change by 2030."? Not too sure if this is the best we have, but it's not as sensational as the first altblurb and giving a little more information. Then again, I didn't read too much, so I can't say if the information I'm giving in this blurb is accurate. TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 18:13, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NPOV does not mean creating undue weight for opposing viewpoints. Since this is the consensus of climatology scientists across the world, it's not an overstatement to phrase it in terms of requiring imminent action. --WaltClipper -(talk) 18:29, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The report is written as a strong warning that all governments need to take action "now", not "wait a few years and take action", if 1.5 in 2030 is to be avoided. It is a strongly worded warning, so Walt is correct that this blurb represents the direness of the situation from the IPCC's view. Masem (t) 12:35, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I understand. Should've read up on the assessment beforehand, then before commenting. Thanks! TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 17:53, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Per Knightoftheswords, this seems to be just more sensationalism. Its for sure notable and I agree with the sentiment of the report, but the UN has been warning about irreversible climate change for as long as Wikipedia has been around. Should we post every time the UN makes a report on the climate?
Rabawar (talk) 13:54, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 19

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Politics and elections


(Posted) RD: Earl of Crawford

[edit]
Article: Robert Lindsay, 29th Earl of Crawford (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Telegraph
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British peer, former Minister of Defence and last living MP elected in 1955  The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 21:58, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Looks good to me; this looks ready to post. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 19:58, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Acquisition of Credit Suisse by UBS

[edit]
Article: Acquisition of Credit Suisse by UBS (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ After Silicon Valley Bank and Signature Bank, Credit Suisse is the third major bank to fail within a few days, and is acquired by UBS. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ After a series of bank failures in the United States, Swiss bank Credit Suisse is acquired by UBS.
Alternative blurb II: ​ After a series of bank failures in the United States, Swiss bank UBS acquires Credit Suisse, its competitor, to prevent its failure.
Alternative blurb III: ​ After a series of bank failures in the United States, Swiss bank Credit Suisse is acquired by UBS.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ Swiss bank UBS announces its intention to acquire its competitor Credit Suisse.
Alternative blurb V: ​ Swiss bank UBS announces its intention to acquire its competitor Credit Suisse in a government-brokered deal.
News source(s): BBC, Washington Post
Credits:

Nominator's comments: This blurb should replace the existing bank collapse blurb. Major development in a developing global banking crisis. This is a breaking story, the Swiss government press conference announcing the acquisition is ongoing as I type this.  Sandstein 19:05, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support on notability. This is a major development in the history of Switzerland, of its financial sector, and it is of great importance to the rest of the world.
XA1dUXvugi (talk) 19:46, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support something If there was an article covering the ongoing crisis in the banking sector, I think I'd support putting that in ongoing. But clearly this is a very significant move. On Friday people were openly warning that Credit Suisse was teetering on the brink and its collapse could set off a financial panic. Not sure how to frame this as a blurb that keeps everything in the context of a crisis in the global banking system. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:55, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    If more banks fail, perhaps we should consider an ongoing nomination for this item? PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:21, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, propose altblurb Significance is obvious, wrote altblurb for conciseness/clarity. The Kip (talk) 19:58, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, propose altblurb, can be linked to the article on Bank collapses. Technically this is the fourth and not the third bank to collapse in March. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 20:03, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This is not a bank failure; UBS stepped to acquire the bank to ward off a future collapse. Only two banks so far have been tank over by a government as a result of a failure. --Masem (t) 20:14, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Masem, that is true, but my understanding is that the two US banks were also not actually insolvent yet, either, when they were taken over. Maybe a better alt blurb would be "After a series of bank failures in the United States, UBS acquires Credit Suisse to prevent its failure". The proposed altblurb makes it sound like a standard corporate merger, whereas this was more like a shotgun wedding pushed through by global financial regulators to prevent the collapse of a globally systemically relevant bank and thereby a major financial crisis. Sandstein 20:25, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    This is complicated because UBS had been looking to acquire Credit Suisse's stable operations for a long time. The controversy at the bank is more related to its investment banking subsidiary First Boston, which is primarily based in the US, so UBS wanted to acquire the Credit Suisse assets minus the First Boston stuff. The current situation is giving UBS a chance to acquire Credit Suisse at a steep discount and also get numerous guarantees from the government over the investment banking subsidiary. Septemberisnottheseptmonth (talk) 00:18, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle, but the article needs to be expanded before it gets posted.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:00, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Kiril Simeonovski, I've expanded the article, although there is still much room for expansion; the global financial press will certainly provide ample coverage in the coming days. Sandstein 22:05, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for the great work. Looks good to go now.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:43, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support with a new burb and an expanded article. The altburb implies that there is a direct link to the US bank collapses and this event, even though the root causes of these two events are different. Technically, Credit Suisse did not fail as the blurb said. This acquisition prevents its failure and possibly a major financial crisis. The term "fail" in the blurb does not seem to be exact.--Maxxies (talk) 21:37, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support altblurb V - Per all of the insightful comments above. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:21, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Alt V Lets not tie this to whatever happened in the USA at SVB / Signature bank, they are seperate events. ✨  4 🧚‍♂am KING  12:26, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree that they should not be tied, but we should be aware that the collapse of SVB did trigger a general panic around banking globally as a result. Panics are hard to document and , per RECENTISM, we should not rush to make a connection (the timing aspects can be discussed on the CS page) but we should be aware that most economic experts point to SVB as the first domino here. Masem (t) 12:39, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Per all of the above, User:Editor 5426387 (talk), 13:13, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support and any of these blurbs work for me. I find #3 to be brief and factual. Jusdafax (talk) 15:41, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Resigned support - I suppose given that we already posted the story about the Silicon Valley Bank's collapse, we sort of have to continue the story here on ITN, since this now has international impact. But for God's sake let's trim down the number of alt-blurbs. I support using either IV or V, none of the others, certainly not the ones referring to the U.S. bank collapses.--WaltClipper -(talk) 15:57, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb IV or V This is a big deal, an economic disaster averted or stalled for now. MarioJump83 (talk) 16:21, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb V A major deal and the target articles look ready to be posted for ITN. Vida0007 (talk) 18:17, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
support Altblurb V seems like the best hook for this. Onegreatjoke (talk) 21:05, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting question. Has UBS "announced its intention to acquire" or actually "acquired"? If the former, then this violates the CRYSTALBALL principle and we should only post until after the acquisition is done, whatever that may mean. QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 17:10, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Swiss government has changed the laws of the Swiss Confederation to enforce the merger between the two companies. This merger is not subject to a shareholder vote, and there is not a way for either party to pull out. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 18:37, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, wasn't sure at first, so it's final now. So how come the blurb reads "announces its intention to acquire" and not "acquires"? QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 20:47, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WP:CRYSTAL says: It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments about the prospects for success of future proposals and projects or whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced.Bagumba (talk) 04:01, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The acquisition has happened now, so why does our blurb read "announces its intent to acquire" and not "acquires"? We should change our blurb, since I now understand that the acquistion has actually happened now.QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 15:15, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Sargassum bloom

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Proposed image
Article: Sargassum (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Millions of tons of Sargassum (pictured) start to inundate coastlines around the Caribbean. (Post)
News source(s): Scientific American; National Geographic; CNN; Guardian; NYT
Credits:
Nominator's comments: It seems that these annual blooms have become a big deal since 2011 but I noticed it now because it's in the news. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:15, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I hope the Gulf Stream weakening doesn't let this into New York in the future. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:51, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's not supposed to be a disruptive or deadly disaster, it's ocean life and it's precious after all. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:42, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    That treaty is not in force yet. We're still waiting for member states to ratify it locally. Masem (t) 02:58, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not proposing it and don't need it to tell me life is precious. I just linked it to show that technically more powerful and definitely more influential people than I agree. If I hadn't, there's a 76% chance someone would have thrown WP:ILIKEIT in my face. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:08, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    And yes, I'm aware that about 24% of future opposers will think it more important to showcase Putin for a bit longer, because he's an adult male human life form and it's cool to hate. But in my humble opinion, this uncivilized mass of shifty asexual perennial blob is the lesser abyss to stare into. Call me a pervert. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:39, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Even though this is not on the news, decomponsimg sargassum has major impacts on marine ecosystem, fishing, health and tourism in affected areas. For these regions, this is a major ecological disaster that impacts the lives of millions of people. The article could be misleading as it does not highlight the significant damages caused by decomposing sargassum.--Maxxies (talk) 06:24, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article does detail the issue of decomposition. For example, in section Biological impacts, "The decomposition of large quantities of Sargassum along coastlines consumes oxygen, creating large oxygen-depleted zones resulting in fish kills. Decomposing sargassum additionally creates hydrogen sulfide gas, which causes a range of health impacts in humans. During the sargassum inundation event in 2018, 11,000 Acute Sargassum Toxicity cases were reported in an 8-month span on just the Caribbean islands of Guadalupe and Martinique."
Also, the topic is quite clearly in the news as many major media are carrying the story.
Andrew🐉(talk) 09:25, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Just because the news covers it doesn't mean it is an encyclopedic worthy story. Eg: we would have posted when the DOE talked about the lab-leak theory as every source was rushing to post about that. The fact our article states "The size of annual blooms in the Atlantic increased by over a hundred-fold, starting in 2011, as a result of factors including increased fertilizer runoff in major rivers such as the Amazon and Congo." makes this story far far less compelling because this particular bloom is largest so far. Masem (t) 12:26, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
While the article describes briefly some of the biological impacts of the decomposition of sargassum, there are no details on the health problems encountered by the population in the affected areas. It does not detail the disastrous impacts on the fishing sector, tourism or even the marine life. These inundations are recurrent and have been occurring for many years and had a very limited coverage, even less on their impacts. Thanks for nominating this important story. Maxxies (talk) 13:38, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The entire point of ITN is to report topics which are in the news. And this topic is clearly encyclopedic too because we already had an article about it and the phenomenon is the subject of scientific study such as this. It's far more worthy of consideration than showbiz, sport, shootings and such. They are ephemeral topics while this is a developing long-term phenomenon with international significance. Science! Andrew🐉(talk) 13:52, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment if there is interest in a climate change story, IPCC just released a new report today (March 20) that, once an article has been made for it would be a good ITNC candidate. --Masem (t) 13:49, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the suggestion. I have made a start above. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:01, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Clearing Sargassum from a beach on the Yucatán Peninsula
  • 2018 was a record year for this phenomenon but ITN didn't report it then. Measurements taken in January indicate that this year will be even bigger. That's in the news now and so it's a good time to let our readers know what's going on. The picture is worth a thousand words. There are perhaps other pictures which we might use (example right) so we have a choice... Andrew🐉(talk) 09:41, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    What I mean is that readers would expect the image to depict the event (unless it's like a picture of a person), so it's misleading to make the image one that doesn't actually represent the specific blurbed event. And the other image is also from last year. Additionally, the blurbed article doesn't have any information about this specific event, unless I'm missing something. DecafPotato (talk) 20:05, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

March 18

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime


Leandro Requena scores the longest goal in soccer history

[edit]
Article: Leandro Requena (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Leandro Requena scores the longest goal in soccer history (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Article updated

 Count Iblis (talk) 06:43, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose and WP:SNOW close - good faith nom, but trivial as @The Kip stated. Crusader1096 (message) 18:38, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Should it be moved to DYK because it's trivial? UltimateFantasyY (talk) 22:36, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and SNOW close Truly amazing! Though it is trivial, however, so oppose and SNOW close. But it isn't snowing, it's supposed to rain 5-7 inches here through Saturday! Tails Wx 23:32, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Gloria Dea

[edit]
Article: Gloria Dea (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [19] [20]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Vladimir.copic (talk) 22:00, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 17

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology

Sports


(Posted) RD: Lance Reddick

[edit]
Article: Lance Reddick (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Uproxx Deadline Hollywood AP
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Better sources on the way. The Kip (talk) 19:23, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All sources I see right now point back to TMZ, so this should be still dubious. Masem (t) 19:25, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Now we have a non TMZ source (Deadline Hollywood) --Masem (t) 19:32, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
AP now confirming as well. The Kip (talk) 20:53, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) ICC arrest warrant for Putin

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Vladimir Putin (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The International Criminal Court issues an arrest warrant for Russian President Vladimir Putin on war crimes charges. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The International Criminal Court issues arrest warrants for Russian President Vladimir Putin and Commissioner for Children's Rights Maria Lvova-Belova for suspected involvement in the abduction of children from Ukraine.
News source(s): The Guardian BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Not updated yet but surely will soon be. Appreciate we have the ongoing link but this seems a major development - Dumelow (talk) 15:30, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, absent a revolution in Russia it is doubtful Putin (and the other person charged, the Children's rights official) will ever see the inside of an ICC courtroom or even be arrested. 331dot (talk) 15:36, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle, but not ready. Wow, that was unexpected. There's no chance of Putin being arrested any time soon, but this is still a big deal in international relations. We don't normally post mere arrest warrants, but for Putin I think we should make an WP:IAR exception. The problem is getting a suitable update somewhere - I don't think a couple of sentences in Putin's long biography article is particularly helpful to readers. Is there one of the Ukraine war articles that could be updated? Or a new article started? Modest Genius talk 15:44, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Update: the altblurb is good and the new target article has a small but sufficient update. Seems postable now. Modest Genius talk 16:59, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: would War crimes in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine be a possible link here? Masem (t) 15:45, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Child abductions in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine is another possibility once it's updated. I've suggested an altblurb also naming the second suspect - Dumelow (talk) 15:52, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes that would be a good option - it gives context on the specific crime, rather than a general biography (I think most readers will already know who Putin is). Modest Genius talk 15:58, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wasn't aware that one existed but agreed that is more appropriate to the specific charge in place. Masem (t) 16:01, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • (edit conflict) Conditional & Reluctant Support Normally I would oppose a report of war crimes charges as I think they should be covered by ongoing and singling out an individual in a blurb based on a charge only, could raise BLP issues. However, this is Putin himself and that puts things on an entirely different level. The main problem at the moment is that this needs to be substantially expanded. Ideally it should be the subject of its own article. As of right now, this cannot be posted. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:46, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Vladimir Putin arrest warrant is now an article. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 17:28, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support - unprecedented act indeed, but let's be honest, the ICC knows that the chance of this warrant being carried out is extremely low, and will almost certainly come with major escalation. This is at least in part a virtue signal. Crusader1096 (message) 15:54, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support based on the importance, international coverage and quality of the articles. This is simply unprecedented. --NoonIcarus (talk) 15:54, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • dont really know whats unprecedented about the ICC issuing an unenforceable warrant, but plenty of heads of state have been charged previously. This has next to no chance of doing anything, as the Russians would likely react similar to what the US would do. It is in the news though, but all the same, covered by ongoing and of little impact. nableezy - 16:09, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Can somebody please tell me what is unprecedented about this? I guess a warrant against the head of state of a UNSC permanent member, but again several heads of state were indicted while they were heads of state for actions in an ongoing armed conflict. Off the top of my head Omar Bashir for crimes against humanity in Darfur. Gaddafi for the Libyan Civil War. Russia isnt a signatory to the Rome Statute, this is effectively a press release. nableezy - 16:57, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd say that a warrant against the head of state of a UNSC permanent member is both entirely unprecedented and significant. I think that's where the minds of most people in support of posting this are. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 17:08, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I tend to think ICC issues unenforceable warrant against target that will never be brought to trial unless there is a regime change being a non-event and not at all unprecedented, but thats just me I guess. nableezy - 17:33, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Given the precedent cited below on Bashir and Gaddafi being posted when indicted then my objections are lessened, though this still is indeed covered by ongoing. nableezy - 20:25, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support significant development in the Ukraine war, and the ICC is the global body for prosecuting war crimes. While it may seem that the odds of carrying out the warrant are low right now, many former heads of state have been arrested and prosecuted years afterwards. NorthernFalcon (talk) 16:12, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose. Almost certain to amount to nothing seeing as there's basically no chance Putin ever shows up to face these charges. If Putin does eventually come before such a court and is found guilty however? Now that's ITN material. DarkSide830 (talk) 16:15, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The ICC issuing arrest warrants in general is uncommon, never mind against the leader of a major world power engaged in warfare against another country, for conduct in said war. 331dot (talk) 16:33, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alternative blurb. This is unprecedented in the history of the ICC, and it is extremely significant in that the head of state of a P5 country is being charged. I like the focus on the article relating to the abductions, though both that article and Putin's biography are now updated to include this information, which was absent at the time of the nom. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 16:18, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt blurb - there are two items which lack references, but this is not serious enough to prevent it being posted. Mjroots (talk) 16:44, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I think I've fixed the reference issues; please let me know if there is anything else that needs fixing. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 16:50, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Red-tailed hawk: - last paragraph of "Reactions" needs a ref. Mjroots (talk) 17:24, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb - Unprecedented in ICC history, major development in the war.
The head of state of a nuclear power having an arrest warrant from the largest criminal court in the world is big news. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 16:47, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt blurb Major news, think its good to include Maria Lvova-Belova in the blurb and important to note that the charges relate to the alleged abduction of children. ✨  4 🧚‍♂am KING  16:51, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb Major international event Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:52, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support – Unprecented and major enough to be posted regardless of the 'ongoing' (like we did for the annexations last year). DecafPotato (talk) 17:00, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting oppose. This is not really ITN worthy as it has no real world significance. It is very unlikely this will result in any real world action in the next month. On the off chance something comes of it, it will come months or years down the line and we should post that if it ever happens. Aure entuluva (talk) 18:35, 17 March 2023 (UTC) (Striking in line with extended-confirmed restriction of WP:GS/RUSUKR.) — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 18:55, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  1. "First catch your bear"
  2. Today there were lots of high profile news stories that "China's Xi to meet Putin in Moscow next week". Why are we not reporting that too as it seems more likely to actually happen?
  3. And there were lots of news stories about Russia downing a US drone.
  4. But we already have Russian invasion of Ukraine in Ongoing to cover the numerous and various news stories arising from this conflict. How is this different?
  5. WP:PERP says "A living person accused of a crime is presumed not guilty unless and until the contrary is decided by a court of law."
Andrew🐉(talk) 18:38, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Presidents meeting each other is a routine activity. International courts issuing warrants for permanent members of the UN Security Council who are engaged in open warfare is not routine. 331dot (talk) 19:15, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Cyclones, floods and other disasters are routine. Elections of national leaders are routine. Sporting events are routine. And yet we post all these. What's supposed to matter is significance and Xi's meeting with Putin seems more significant than the ICC because China is a superpower and the ICC isn't. Neither China nor Russia nor the USA is a signatory to the ICC. Even the Ukraine hasn't ratified it. Andrew🐉(talk) 20:38, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome to nominate Xi's visit and check out opinions. As for ICC's arrest warrants, regardless of enforceability and bureaucratic obstacles, this is a major public degradation of Putin's international standing that would enter history textbooks as a symbol of everyone's equality before the law, regardless of ranks, and determination to seek justice at the highest possible level. That alone is sufficient for a blurb. Brandmeistertalk 22:37, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here's a report which ties the two together: How a warrant for Putin puts new spin on Xi visit to Russia. There's lots of posturing and speculation so it's still a long way from the history books and still seems best at Ongoing. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:28, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support - it doesn't really matter whether or not something will come of it. What does matter is that it's making news around the world and is unprecedented to boot. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 18:39, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Per above, still, WTF happened? - User:Editor 5426387 (talk) 19:00, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support. Obviously there will be little to no immediate practical effect barring a dramatic Russian collapse, but an ICC warrant is significant and news in and of itself. ITN has blurbed both previous ICC warrants of sitting world leaders: Omar al-Bashir [21] and Muammar Gaddaffi. [22] al-Bashir's trial still has not occured, though after the 2019 coup, he might be handed over to the ICC. Gaddaffi of course, was killed in the war, so never stood trial. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 19:12, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support ICC warrants for heads of state are highly uncommon, let alone the leader of a UNSC permanent member. The Kip (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 19:15, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support It doesn't matter that nothing will probably come of it. The ICC is widely recognised worldwide, even by those who don't recognise its jurisdiction over their own country. It's an arrest warrant for a major current world leader. It's clearly notable news. -- KTC (talk) 19:55, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Really??? As far as I can tell there are exactly two sentences in the bolded article about this, plus one in the lead. That is completely inadequate coverage for an ITN blurb and to the best of my recollection has never been considered acceptable in the past. We need to slow down and actually look at what we are linking. ITN is not a news ticker and we should not be lowering, or simply ignoring our standards just because something is grabbing headlines. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:59, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    ...or we can be responsive to what happens in the world and remain relevant. I would urge you to review the stated purpose of ITN for which this IMHO checks at least three of the boxes. Quality can always be improved, but perfect should not be the enemy of good. 331dot (talk) 20:24, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    In other words, we should become a news ticker? -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:30, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    No, we should
    -help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news.
    -showcase quality Wikipedia content on current events.
    -point readers to subjects they might not have been looking for but nonetheless may interest them.
    -emphasize Wikipedia as a dynamic resource.
    If you disagree with these things, I believe you know where the discussion page is. 331dot (talk) 20:33, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support A significant action by a respected organization with great moral weight against Putin’s crimes.-TenorTwelve (talk) 23:08, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Untested allegations against two living people, tiny update and covered by Ongoing. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:20, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting support - The ICC has never made an arrest warrant against a (sitting) head of state. As others have said, it doesn't matter if a trial occurs (which it almost certainly will not), it's still important nonetheless. Estar8806 (talk) 23:26, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Untrue. Multiple times untrue. nableezy - 23:28, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Every criminal suspect deserves a fair trial. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:48, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is the most annoying part of the BLP correction from every unsourced tidbit should be retained cus it may in fact be verifiable of yesteryear to today's unambiguous facts should be suppressed because other future things may not be true. It is unambiguously true that an arrest warrant was issued for Putin by the ICC on these charges, and no future trial, conviction, acquittal or anything else would change that from being true. nableezy - 23:51, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's the for the abduction of children from Ukraine part I find prejudicial. That's the charge. The two never-to-be defendants weren't neccesssarily served the warrant for actually abducting children. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:13, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support. I am not really surprised but still disgusted by the number of Putin's defenders who came out of the woodwork here. Shameful. Nsk92 (talk) 00:36, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    If you're referring to me, you've got it wrong, I did the same for Lvova-Belova and I'd do the same for you. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:44, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose since when did we start posting arrests instead of convictions? Banedon (talk) 01:00, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Since when did we consider an Event article that only has Background and Reactions "ready"? Since now, bud. This is yet another stupid fucking precedent to have to remember we threw on the pile, like the Mandela/Thatcher Standard, Lebrongate or WP:MINIMUMDEATHS. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:40, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm sure I'll get killed for this but I actually think the LeBron record will go down as more significant. This is DYK material here. The fact that the arrests are likely getting merged into the abductions article substantiates the fact that in-actionable warrants such as these are footnotes in a much larger story. DarkSide830 (talk) 05:16, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    If anyone wants to kill you, they'll have to get through me next! LeBron setting an all-time NBA scoring record is still a bigger deal than yet another Putin hater trying to hurt him with words. As are the facts that Nelson Mandela and Margaret Thatcher are dead (I don't think anyone here really still cares that 197 died in this suicide bombing or 306 in that flood, though). InedibleHulk (talk) 05:41, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Correction: The current event article was never even the target for this In The News fiasco. Just Putin and missing children. Two things that have already happened. At least it got his picture on the front page. That'll show him. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:50, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. It's an entirely symbolic move, as acknowledged by all parties, and there's virtually no chance that an arrest will follow it. Not the sort of thing we should post at ITN – we shouldn't just consider whether an event is unprecedented, but whether it has real consequences or the potential to. — Goszei (talk) 03:09, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting oppose per @Goszei, @Banedon, @InedibleHulk Evan224 (talk) 03:55, 18 March 2023 (UTC) (Striking in line with extended-confirmed restriction of WP:GS/RUSUKR.) — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 06:03, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull Firstly Ongoing exists for a reason. We should also not be throwing out BLP in any case, these are still just charges not a conviction (Bashir and Gaddafi might have been posted but those were a decade ago; regardless mistakes should not be repeated). Gotitbro (talk) 05:32, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    There's no BLP involved here. Saying X has an arrest warrant for crime Y does not say X committed crime Y. And while this is just charges, this is for one of the top world leaders. Masem (t) 14:18, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    While formal indictments might be included in articles without BLP violations, it is something else to feature these on the main page through ITN. All the recent indictment noms for politicians et al have been shot down at ITN, with an ask for formal convictions. I don't see why we need to move away from precedent, opening a Pandora's box whenever some high profile person gets charged. Gotitbro (talk) 19:22, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Clearly this case with Putin falls into the IAR-type territory due to the ongoing war and Putin's and Russia's position. We also know any trial is unlikely to happen, so waiting until the results of that highly unlikely trial would be pointless. So this is an IAR-type area.
    We are going to have to think about this as next week, it is expected that NY State will arrest Trump on various charges. There may be other reasons to post (Trump is calling for his supporters to revolt, so we may have significant protests that would be appropriate), but there is something to be said about the arrest of a former President. Masem (t) 19:51, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Actual arrests and mere arrest warrants require different assessments (though I would not support either). Gotitbro (talk) 10:15, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support Posting the arrest warrants for Gaddafi & al-Bashir set a precedent for posting this & the arrest warrant for Putin is even more notable since he’s the leader of a UNSC permanent member state. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 06:27, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support - Historic decision. Clearly appropriate for ITN, even if there is not a huge amount of update about it.BabbaQ (talk) 10:51, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support - For a head of state to be wanted for war crimes is clearly a signficant development in international relations. I know it's not unique, but that's not a barrier here. And I support the detailed blurb used; there's no BLP violation in specifying the nature of the charges for which the accused are wanted. GenevieveDEon (talk) 12:12, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I brought this up on ERRORS, but the current blurb is absolutely a BLP violation. The arrest warrant is not for "abducting" children, it is, according to the ICC news release, for the unlawful deportation and transfer of Ukrainian children from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation. The current blurb is both inaccurate and a BLP violation and needs to be corrected. nableezy - 15:50, 18 March 2023 (UTC)][reply]
Unlawful deportation is abduction. This is 'you don't need to cite that the sky is blue. GenevieveDEon (talk) 18:35, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No it is not. The crime here is the unlawful transfer of civilians in to or out of occupied territory. Abduction in the Rome Statute is about forced disappearances, not transferring civilians in to or out of occupied territory. And yes, this is definitely something that needs to be cited, and BLP applies to Vladimir Putin as well as every other living person. I dare say that our BLP policy's main purpose is to protect the people we dislike the most from our biases. nableezy - 19:24, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also, you may not participate in this discussion due to the extended confirmed restriction applied to the topic area. nableezy - 19:25, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for multiple reasons. Firstly, the ICC isn't a global judicial authority as the ICJ, which is a UN organ, and this view has recently gained support with the numerous controversies surrounding its work. Note that Russia and the United States withdrew from the Rome Statute, whereas China, India, Indonesia and Turkey have never signed it. These countries make up almost a half of world's total population and include three of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council. Secondly, it's been a long-standing practice that we post convictions, not arrest warrants or arrests, so this posting practically violates both WP:BLP and WP:PERP. Thirdly, the updates in both articles on the people involved are too short and don't indicate that they've committed the alleged crimes. A reader of Maria Lvova-Belova would guess that she rescued a 15-year-old boy given that she's a mother of 5 biological and 18 adopted children. There's absolutely nothing about why that adoption is considered abduction. How the boy's parents and relatives reacted? Did the they file a lawsuit? These are highly relevant questions that should be addressed in the article. Fourthly, this is covered by the ongoing item.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:51, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • And this is the problem with using "abduction" when the charge is not that. It makes one think kidnapping. The charge is the unlawful transfer of civilians from occupied territory. nableezy - 16:02, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support—The ICC issuing an arrest warrant for a current, former, and in one case future head of government and/or state is not unprecedented. In the past, they've indicted Omar al-Bashir (Sudan), Muammar Gaddafi (Libya), Laurent Gbagbo (Ivory Coast), and Uhuru Kenyatta (Kenya). Out of the four, the only one who ever spent any time behind bars in the Hague is Gbagbo, and he was ultimately acquitted of all charges in 2018. Gaddafi was killed before he could stand trial, the charges against Kenyatta were dropped due to alleged witness tampering in Kenya, and Bashir is supposed to be transferred into ICC custody from Sudan, but the status of his impending extradition is in limbo. So, suffice it to say, the ICC has had a... less-than-stellar record when it comes to prosecuting and convicting heads of state. Nevertheless, the symbolic significance of issuing an arrest warrant for the leader of Russia—either the second or third most powerful country in the world, depending on how you rank China—should not be understated. Kurtis (talk) 20:03, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose— More or less a symbolic move, the war is already featured in the ongoing section and int'l news outlets seem to have already moved on to other incidents of this war, mostly. DogeChungus (talk) 09:18, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Has anyone looked at the featured article lately? After a quick look there are multiple broken references, and some interesting sentences (the construct "sometimes maybe" looks especially strange in an article discussing war crimes). Since it's protected, there isn't much I can do about them. 51.154.145.205 (talk) 12:24, 19 March 2023 (UTC) (Striking in line with extended-confirmed restriction of WP:GS/RUSUKR.)[reply]

(Removed) Ongoing Removal: Cyclone Freddy

[edit]
Article: Cyclone Freddy (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)

Nominator's comments: The article is in past tense. Seems to be over. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:01, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support I think that's really all we need, so sure, I think we should remove it.

Palmtreegames, Looking for a better signature. (talk) 15:18, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: As stated in the nom below, we were waiting for the death toll to stop increasing so rapidly before removing it. 111 more bodies were recovered just yesterday between Malawi and Mozambique. The storm is considered dissipated as soon as the low-level center can't be tracked or the agencies simply decide to stop tracking it and the article transitions to past tense. This is regardless of whether or not the remnants still exist and are still causing flooding. In this case, heavy rainfall is still occurring over the flooded areas and floods haven't begun to recede as of the latest reports. NoahTalk 15:34, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Pull While heavy rain is still falling and floods are still killing people, the cyclone itself has "dissipated". This is part of the reason why ongoing is honestly inappropriate for tropical cyclones. They are "finished" as soon as they degrade enough that agencies don't bother tracking them anymore. We can't keep this here forever while the hunt for survivors and remains is conducted. As far as Meteo France and the Joint Typhoon Warning Center are concerned, the disaster ended on March 14–15 when they ceased tracking it. NoahTalk 16:26, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. No longer ongoing. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 16:34, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Per above - User:Editor 5426387 (talk) 19:00, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Curbon7: keep your $5. :P MarioJump83 (talk) 23:53, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    C’mon, when will they give a good reason to their vote? Tails Wx 23:54, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Removed Stephen 22:09, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing: World Baseball Classic

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2023 World Baseball Classic (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
 2600:1700:31BA:9410:9CE6:94D8:E140:7B1E (talk) 04:56, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The tournament is ITN/R but doesn't need to be ongoing. We'll have the article ready to post after the final game concludes on Tuesday. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:59, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Needs work A typical sports article with lots of flags and scores and tables and not much else. And there are other issues such as the use of future tense. And it doesn't seem suitable for Ongoing as it's nearly over. And there's an issue with some of the teams which are rather phony. For example, though baseball originated in Britain, the game has died out there and is only played by a tiny number of amateurs. And just about none of these are on the roster for the so-called GB team which seems to have been packed with ringers. These claim to be British in the same way that Boris Johnson was American – a technicality of birth or parentage. But they are really Americans who play in the US, right? The article doesn't explain this. The sport has generally struggled to establish itself as an international sport, having been removed from the Olympics, and so this shaky background needs explaining. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:24, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
While the odd team composition is all interesting to bring up, I don't see any of that as being necessary to establish the prose of the article unless it's something specific to WBC 2023. Most of what you are describing seems to be an issue with the competition in general rather than its yearly iterations. --WaltClipper -(talk) 12:08, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Too soon. The tournament is only at the quarter-final stage and doesn't conclude until Tuesday (which is a weird day to hold the final, why wouldn't it get a prime weekend slot?). I suggest you withdraw this nomination and come back once they tournament is actually completed. The article will need referenced prose - not just tables - describing what happened at the tournament, during the final etc. Modest Genius talk 12:03, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted to Ongoing) Ongoing: 2023 French pension reform strikes

[edit]
Article: 2023 French pension reform strikes (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:

 ~ Rushtheeditor (talk) 00:02, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Blurb when ready - Generating a lot of media coverage and the scale of the protests is blurb-worthy, but the article needs improvement. ✨  4 🧚‍♂am KING  07:43, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - expanded and regularly updated. Should be posted immediately. Crusader1096 (message) 18:41, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Definitely not ongoing, maybe blurb - This is In The News, and is getting bigger and bigger (especially as it's about an issue that will only become more relevant as demographics in the western world age), so I could hear arguments for its notability, but we post a blurb first, and if by the time the blurb has rolled off the event is still ongoing, then we can post it to ongoing. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 14:50, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: the page quality is acceptable and it's receiving updates. The incident has been ongoing for at least two month and It had to be on the main page sooner than this. The incident is statewide, serious and ongoing. Still making news and further protests are announced [23]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhhossein (talkcontribs) 06:31, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, The strike is ongoing and the article is OK. Alex-h (talk) 15:32, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article is tagged for update and expansion Stephen 02:14, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Ongoing strikes are getting significant enough coverage for ITN for some time now, makes sense for ongoing. Estar8806 (talk) 02:28, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Protests in France against the pension reform bill continue since January 2023.

It definitely needs workshopping, I just wanted to put something down so others can chime in with better ideas. Soni (talk) 09:47, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Laura Valenzuela

[edit]
Article: Laura Valenzuela (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): La Vanguardia, El País, Hola
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Very popular Spanish actress and presenter. Alexcalamaro (talk) 20:29, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 16

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology


(Posted) RD: Jacqueline Gold

[edit]
Article: Jacqueline Gold (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [24]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 18:13, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 15

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents


2023 Turkish floods

[edit]
Article: 2023 Turkish floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Floods in Turkey killed at least 15, caused extensive damage, and left many missing in the same regions affected by the deadly earthquake. (Post)
News source(s): Daily Sabah, Al Jazeera, Bloomberg
Credits:

 Ainty Painty (talk) 14:29, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Antje Vollmer

[edit]
Article: Antje Vollmer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Der Spiegel
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German politician, Green party. Vice president of the BundestagGrimes2 (talk) 11:54, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) GPT-4 releases

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.



Article: GPT-4 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: OpenAI releases GPT-4, a generative AI, to the public (Post)
Alternative blurb: GPT-4, the successor to GPT-3 (ChatGPT), releases to the public
News source(s): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-64959346
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Very unorthodox nomination, but this is (in my opinion) a HUGELY relevant event. It is In The News, sending shockwaves throughout the internet and tech world, and is a groundbreaking innovation in Artificial Intelligence, a technology that will probably come to define this era. This is truly a breakthrough, and (in my opinion) qualifies for ITN. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 16:01, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - i do feel like people are missing the point a bit. It isn't just some "new product". From what's been told, this new AI version is MUCH stronger than its predecessor by over a quadrillion times. Yet, what makes me oppose this is that it's not that great. It's a major improvement from its previous but it's still not blurbable imo. I would possibly support the blurbing of a hypothetical GPT-5 depending on how good it is but GPT-4 just isn't good enough. Onegreatjoke (talk) 20:39, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Where did you get "a quadrillion times stronger" from? The originally rumored figure was that it had about 570 times more parameters (from 175 billion to 100 trillion), and even that was deemed an exaggeration by OpenAI. Ionmars10 (talk) 21:07, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Cyclone Yaku

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Cyclone Yaku (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Cyclone Yaku causes widespread destruction in Ecuador and Peru, resulting in at least six deaths. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Cyclone Yaku causes widespread destruction in Ecuador and Peru, resulting in at least six deaths and leaving thousands homeless.
News source(s): Bloomberg, Reuters
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Very unusual weather phenomenon for the region that is causing widespread destruction in Peru. Death toll is expected to increase. WMrapids (talk) 03:37, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I oppose since we don't know what the hell has actually happened due to conflicting sources (multiple Spanish sources say 58-60 deaths for the storm and some say 6). Collapsed further discussion under InedibleHulk's oppose due to its size and it's now straying off the topic of the storm itself. NoahTalk 22:31, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sources do indeed mention 58 and 3 deaths. I have put a ton of sources on the TP for expansion but sadly it seems nobody wants to help out the article. Cyclone activity is rare in Peru as sources cited it being the first such event since 1997–98.NoahTalk 09:49, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Most of those are in Spanish, which I don't read well enough to know. The English ones in your list put the toll at around six, one adding Later, INDECI said 58 people had been killed since the start of the rainy season, which began some months ago. It did not provide a specific time frame for the casualties. Can you share one English source here for "at least 60"? InedibleHulk (talk) 20:25, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    No, because I can only find 3 major English sources (including the two above) discussing it in detail and they all published similar information. [25] title translates directly as "Peru underwater. Cyclone Yaku: 60 dead and 15,000 homeless without response from the Boluarte coup government". My guess is that official sources aren't differentiating the deaths because Yaku was simply worsening existing rain/flood problems and wasn't the only factor in the recent rains. NoahTalk 20:53, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    You'll understand if I trust the story shared by the staff of Reuters, DW and Bloomberg over a post by someone whose username translates to "fight kings". InedibleHulk (talk) 21:08, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not their username but rather their actual name, which is Lucha Reyes. A lot of Spanish names translate to words in English. If you trust the English sources only on these storms, then articles won't go anywhere because they don't provide adequate information. NoahTalk 21:18, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Nobody's real name is Lucha Reyes. The English sources we've always trusted, unlike La Izquierda Diario, do provide adequate information. They mention the six dead INDECI blames on the cyclone and the 58 it says have died since Decemberish. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:22, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Lucha Reyes (Peruvian singer) exists... last name actually was Reyes and her common name was Lucha. Her professional partner's first name translates to pity in English. Not hard to believe someone actually being named Lucha. Articles would be absolute shit if not for local language sources because English sources do not provide in-depth coverage of the impact but rather a summary. NoahTalk 21:29, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    As you say, only her last name was Reyes. Same deal with Lucha Reyes (Mexican singer), Lucha Villa or Hurricane Helms. It's fine for entertainers to take stage names, but when a supposed reporter for a socialist opinion website does it, that's pretty fugazi. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:37, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Oppose since we don't know what the hell has actually happened due to conflicting sources (multiple Spanish sources say 58-60 deaths for the storm and some say 6). Not going to bother arguing with you anymore since it's just talking to a wall. I already mentioned quite a few names in Spanish translate to words in English. If you want to biased against Spanish sources due to the name of the reporter, so be it. NoahTalk 21:49, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not Jerry Tuite, so no Wall or Malice intended. I appreciate that some real Spanish names (like Reyes) do translate to English words. But "Lucha" is not one of them and searching Wikipedia for an example to the contrary is fruitless. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:53, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    How do you know that Lucha isn't a real name? What evidence do you have of that? NoahTalk 21:56, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It's more a lack of evidence, despite searching Wikipedia, combined with a knowledge of many lucha libre stage names, such as Luchasaurus. What I trust less about Lucha Reyes' "diary" than its language is that it's a socialist opinion site, not hard news. Plus, multiple actual and reputable newswires have contradicted his or her claim. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:00, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Quite a few newspapers in Central and South America are affiliated with either the state or a political party. That simply comes with the territory. I haven't thoroughly vetted that source, but that has to be done before declaring it entirely unreliable as there are state/political party-affiliated sources that have been deemed reliable in the past for other countries for various articles across Wikipedia. For example, every Chinese news source would be considered unreliable since they are state-affiliated, but that isn't the case. It is decided on a case-by-case basis and sometimes takes hours of searching for an individual source. Given that multiple Spanish sources have stated 60, maybe there was simply confusion on their part. That does happen from time to time in English news reporting, especially when multiple figures are coming out in short order. Reuters had to issue a correction for Freddy's death toll in Malawi today. NoahTalk 22:12, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm far from smart when it comes to politics in Argentina, but it seems that state now runs on Kirchnerism, not Trotskyism. So it's not like China Daily or People's Daily as the mouthpiece for Communism in China. It's the "alternative media", in Americanist terms (as "fight kings" might suggest). InedibleHulk (talk) 22:23, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 14

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

International relations

Science and technology


US drone downed in the Black Sea

[edit]
Article: 2023 Black Sea drone incident (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ An American MQ-9 Reaper drone is downed in the Black Sea by Russian Sukhoi Su-27 fighter jets (Post)
News source(s): See article
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Kind of surprised we don't have a nomination for this. "First direct contact between the Russian and United States Air Forces since the Cold War", per the article. Blurb might need improvement, since the facts are disputed. Banedon (talk) 01:37, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Covered by the Ukraine ongoing for all purposes. It hasn't really tripped the relationship between the US and Russia that's already not stressed by the Ukraine war. --Masem (t) 02:10, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I don't think it's covered by Ongoing, just loosely connected. But I also know we still don't know much and that nobody died in this downing/crash/whatever. We don't mourn robots here, and shouldn't always anticipate doom. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:06, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose unless the US invokes Article 5 over this, in which case, it's been a pleasure editing with you all. Juxlos (talk) 08:37, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't know about you, but the first thing I'll do when I see the mushroom cloud rising in the distance is post it to ITN. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 11:25, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Of all the death and destruction being caused in the Ukraine war, one drone being forced down is a drop in the ocean. This is covered by the entry in ongoing. If it prompted a major response from the US we can consider that as a nomination, but right now it's a minor diplomatic scuffle, akin to the missile that accidentally hit Poland a few months ago. Modest Genius talk 12:12, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not a big enough incident that it needs its own posting in addition to the ongoing. Curbon7 (talk) 14:15, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Leaning oppose. If this had been a piloted plane that's a different matter. Based on the video, this actually looks accidental (it was physically struck by a Russian fighter trying to do a near pass; no sane pilot will ever intentionally collide with another object in the air). BD2412 T 16:04, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It's just a drone being downed in the ocean, its not something big. TomMasterRealTALK 01:15, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Bobby Caldwell

[edit]
Article: Bobby Caldwell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): USA Today
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died yesterday but death was only announced today; saw no {cn} tags but there is still no section about his death yet. Vida0007 (talk) 15:30, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Ongoing: Cyclone Freddy

[edit]
Article: Cyclone Freddy (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Catastrophic flooding ongoing in Malawi with the death toll rapidly rising (199 confirmed as of this nomination). Rainfall is continuing across Malawi and Mozambique in association with the cyclone's remnants. The article is continually being expanded and meets criteria for ongoing. Opting to nominate instead of add it myself given my involvement in the tropical cyclone project. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 19:43, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Very much an ongoing event and very much in the news. Quality seems A-OK. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 20:33, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above - was not expecting this to last as long as it has. Crusader1096 (message) 20:42, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's the only tropical cyclone on record to outlive a long month (31 days). And it broke the record by days. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:53, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support its still going as the cyclone's remnants is still bringing heavy rainfall and 238 fatalities is confirmed so far which is very notable for a tropical cyclones
Rainbow Galaxy POC (talk) 20:44, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ongoing. --RockstoneSend me a message! 00:55, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to ongoing. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:02, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question. Is this really ongoing? Our article on this topic has this as the first line of the lede. Very Intense Tropical Cyclone Freddy was an exceptionally long-lived storm that tracked across the Indian Ocean for more than five weeks in February and March 2023.. Can any knowledgeable editor, update the lede if it is indeed ongoing. If it is not ongoing, we should not include this in the ongoing section. Ktin (talk) 21:24, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Rainfall is still ongoing and expected to continue for a few more days as a result of the remnant moisture. The storm is no longer being tracked and is considered "dissipated" as of this morning because its center position could not be located. That doesn't mean the disaster is over. NoahTalk 21:35, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Got it thanks. If the storm is "dissipated," I would recommend removing it from ongoing. Alternately, if the storm is ongoing, I would recommend the lede of the target article be updated. Ktin (talk) 22:21, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It is no longer a tropical cyclone and the wind map is no longer "rotation around a center" but it is still raining. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:16, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    If it's still otherwise worthy of ongoing (I have no idea) maybe the link can be Cyclone Freddy flooding or something piped to the article. If a 1993 or 2011-level or worse Mississippi flood was caused by a storm new states could start flooding for months after the storm disappears. The rivers in this part of the world aren't as long in water travel time as the Mississippi but an organized wind map still existing is not needed for water from that storm to still be rising in many homes. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:34, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    We need to look to Relief Web to see how the disaster is progressing. NoahTalk 00:27, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    We can remove it if the death toll starts to wane off in a day or so (which is expected). We would not give ongoing coverage to continued humanitarian efforts, similarly to the Turkey/Syria quake. Masem (t) 01:09, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Main issue is rainfall. [26] specifically mentions "Over the next 48 hours, very heavy rainfall is forecast over southern Malawi and over Zambezia, Sofala and Tete Provinces (central-northern Mozambique)". This would still be ongoing as long as the article is updated, heavy rainfall is occurring, and scores of people are being reported deceased. NoahTalk 01:12, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    101 more dead in Malawi today and missing there increased from 41 to 201. No word on increases in Mozambique yet, but more likely there since they couldnt access many areas. NoahTalk 14:58, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull The cyclone moved on, rain lasts forever. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:12, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 13

[edit]

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections


(new) RD: Ernst Tugendhat

[edit]
Article: Ernst Tugendhat (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): taz and others
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Internationally recognised German philosopher. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:22, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Vera Selby

[edit]
Article: Vera Selby (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://wst.tv/vera-selby-mbe-passes-away/
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 11:52, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Kenzaburō Ōe

[edit]
Article: Kenzaburō Ōe (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Times, BBC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died March 3, but death was only announced on March 13; article looks mostly ok, with just a few places missing citations which we can hopefully fix quickly. Cielquiparle (talk) 10:43, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Pat Schroeder

[edit]
Article: Pat Schroeder (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Some sourcing problems, but it doesn't look like too many. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 03:36, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Joe Pepitone

[edit]
Article: Joe Pepitone (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [27]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 22:41, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Naonobu Fujii

[edit]
Article: Naonobu Fujii (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Olympics JA insidethegames
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Rushtheeditor (talk) 21:30, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(posted) Update blurb: Collapse of Signature Bank

[edit]
Article: Collapse of Signature Bank (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Silicon Valley Bank (headquarters pictured) and Signature Bank collapse in the second and third–largest bank failures in U.S. history. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Silicon Valley Bank (headquarters pictured) and Signature Bank collapses in the second and third–largest bank failures in U.S. history
News source(s): [28]
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Third largest banking collapse in US history, right behind SVB and WaMu. 29th largest bank in the US by assets according to the Federal Reserve, $110 billion in assets or thereabouts. No article yet on its collapse Collapse of Signature Bank is still a W.I.P., so feel free to oppose on quality for the time being if needed. Juxlos (talk) 03:49, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support - two of the largest bank failures in American history occurring in a few days is certainly a major - and worrying - event. Crusader1096 (message) 04:05, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Article on the SB collapse has since been created. Crusader1096 (message) 04:11, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support – and also link 2023 United States bank failures once it's expanded. DecafPotato (talk) 04:11, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Amending because the blurb was updated with the article Collapse of Signature Bank, in which case I have to oppose on quality for the time being. DecafPotato (talk) 04:14, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have spent a lot of time today adding information about the Signature collapse to its article and overhauling it. I have ported some of that material to the new Collapse of Signature Bank page, but I fear that it will actually be quite redundant the way that the page is structured. Sammi Brie (she/her • tc) 05:52, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment While one can call the Signature Bank a bank failure, my read of articles states it was done preemptively to prevent a mass rush on the bank markets following the SVB failure (which came out of nowhere). As such I don't think an update is necessary, but it is wise to be looking at a broad article on 2023 bank collapses if they keep happening and suggest that for ongoing. We definitely can't keep adding more banks to blurbs. --Masem (t) 04:14, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Hopefully it stops at 2 large banks, but if an increasing number of banks collapse we would just have to do it with a number ticker a la natural disaster fatalities. Juxlos (talk) 04:17, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is incredibly worrying for global economy. MarioJump83 (talk) 04:34, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. There's an article that's currently under construction at 2023 United States bank failures. I don't oppose updating for now, but I do think that we may want to consider the article under construction as the bold entry if we're going to be making this update. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 05:17, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. It will provide a better insight on what is currently happening. I would certainly prefer to see this article compiling bank failures on ITN. Maybe if US bank collapses continue, why not consider this article as an ongoing event? Maxxies (talk) 05:55, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Sounds good, put it up 2A00:23C8:B03:9F01:C980:3C99:352:FAFA (talk) 18:01, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 12

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents


(Posted) RD: Phyllida Barlow

[edit]
Article: Phyllida Barlow (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [29] [30]
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Well cited and pretty well rounded article. Vladimir.copic (talk) 22:08, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Are photographs of the artist's 3D sculptures Creative Commons safe under UK Freedom of Panorama, if they weren't "permanent" installations? Cielquiparle (talk) 22:25, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think you're right so I've removed them. Vladimir.copic (talk) 00:27, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Marek Kopelent

[edit]
Article: Marek Kopelent (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Czech Radio
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Influential Czech composer who received foreign commissions while banned in his home country from 1971 to 1989, influential then also as professor from 1991. - Article had only few inline citations, and few works. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:40, 14 March 2023 (UTC) KTC (talk) 20:45, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Dick Fosbury

[edit]
Article: Dick Fosbury (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 KTC (talk) 20:45, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Oscars 95

[edit]
Proposed image
Articles: 95th Academy Awards (talk · history · tag) and Everything Everywhere All at Once (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: At the 95th Academy Awards, Daniel Kwan and Daniel Scheinert win the awards for best director while Brendan Fraser (pictured) wins the award for best actor. (provisional blurb) (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ At the 95th Academy Awards, Everything Everywhere All at Once (lead actress Michelle Yeoh pictured) wins seven awards, including Best Picture.
News source(s): ABC
Credits:
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Recurring item. The ceremony is still ongoing, with best picture not being announced, but the news is that almighty Fraser himself has won best actor while the Daniels best director(s?).
Edit: having had BP announced, I am striking the original blurb. Crusader1096 (message) 03:28, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

At the 95th Academy Awards, Everything Everywhere All at Once (best actress winner Michelle Yeoh pictured) wins seven awards, including Best Picture Kirill C1 (talk) 07:19, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 11

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

Sports


(Posted) RD: Ahlem Belhadj

[edit]
Article: Ahlem Belhadj (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Espace Manager Business News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: An article I started a good few years ago whose subject has now died. I've not kept a close eye on it but have tidied it up a bit today - Dumelow (talk) 09:24, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Bud Grant

[edit]
Article: Bud Grant (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [31]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 17:42, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support (Maybe blurb) Article is a GA, and the name Bud Grant is well known in both the NFL and CFL worlds, and even in the NBA world (Yes, he played basketball for the Lakers and won the 1950 Finals with them). — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheCorriynial (talkcontribs) 17:57, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we need a blurb for him. Article has been GA for 15 years, so it should not automatically be taken as quality. I'm reviewing it to see if there's anything glaring. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:17, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. While a blurb would be nice (I'd support it), as he's one of the greatest all-time NFL coaches, one of the greatest all-time CFL coaches (one of the top five winningest coaches ever), a great CFL player, a (briefly) great NFL player, as well as NBA player, I'd bet immediately there would be a bunch of opposes due to being "too America-centric." But anyway, the article is good enough quality it appears to qualify for RD. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:02, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb if he were the winningest, or highest-record, or longest-serving, coach in NFL history I could possibly support (though you'd get opposes even then), but having not even a single first-place record renders this a no-go IMO. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 20:41, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD, oppose blurb. Qualified to be posted under RD but not noteworthy enough to be blurbed. Article looks ready though. Vida0007 (talk) 20:52, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not Quite Ready Almost there but the Coaching Tree section near the bottom has some referencing gaps. Should be a quick fix for anyone with access to sources. As soon as that is fixed this can be just treated as a support for RD. No need to ping me. Not really feeling a blurb here. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:12, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Done. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:58, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support, oppose blurb Article is now ready to go. Blurb is not necessary. MarioJump83 (talk) 04:42, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Mikaela Shiffrin's 87th World Cup victory

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Proposed image
Article: Mikaela Shiffrin (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Mikaela Shiffrin (pictured) becomes the world's most successful alpine skier with her 87th World Cup race win. (Post)
Alternative blurb: The Alpine World Cup is won by Mikaela Shiffrin and Marco Odermatt, with Shiffrin breaking the old record by earning her 87th victory. <Cup isn't over yet.>
Alternative blurb II: Mikaela Shiffrin breaks the record for most alpine skiing World Cup race wins.
News source(s): Reuters, CNN, The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: With her 87th win, Shiffrin overtakes Ingemar Stenmark's 34 y/o (!!) all-time record wins. If posted with photo, I think this victory-gesture-photo is the most appropriate. cart-Talk 17:26, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Last time I checked, this was the Wikipedia in the English language, not the US Wikipedia. Skiing is bigger than basketball in the Nordic countries and central Europe. It is also big in Canada, Japan and Korea. Even if basketball is a big sport, it shouldn't eclipse other sports and set the standards for them. That is like saying we shouldn't post elections from small states at ITN. Btw, the nom is about a US skier if we stick to the US Wiki agenda. cart-Talk 17:02, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
W.carter, check out the LeBron James discussion to see the links to articles for Le Monde, El Pais, La Repubblica, The Guardian, and other non-U.S. news sources. Just because you didn't see it and/or didn't care about it doesn't mean it was "relatively unnoticed" worldwide. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:15, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Muboshgu, of course I read about it online, and with a brother-in-law who is a US basketball coach, it's hard to not hear about a thing like that, do not assume things you don't know anything about. But it wasn't broadcasted on radio and tv like this record was. And I still think an international record is more significant than a national. cart-Talk 01:06, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't assuming anything, I was reading where you said it was "relatively unnoticed" even though it was quite noticed. There is way too much of people talking about things they know nothing about on this page. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:10, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's not national level, all the strong non-USA players play there, a large percent of the superstars grew up in Eurasia or Africa with no American connections like citizenship or ancestry. The gap to the second strongest league in the world is large, even the strongest domestic soccer league isn't consistently obviously better than the second strongest. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:16, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't matter if the US league is the strongest in the world and the players come from all over the world (Heck, my own sister was drafted from Sweden and played basketball for a New York college!) As long as the teams don't play teams from other nations, it's by definition a national league. cart-Talk 16:53, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
By 1995 75% of big four USA sports have had Canadian team(s) in their top league. So barely international (Canadian football and American football are different sports kind of like rugby union and league and have a deal to not directly compete though some Canadians follow both) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:17, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Some consider Toronto a Canadian city, but many Canadians prefer to think of it as a global metropolis that just happens to technically sit above that oddly southern part of the border. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:38, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So a bit like New York or London? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:30, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A bit more like Dubai, on account of its preposterously gigantic tower. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:38, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Our tower is only 1.3% shorter than yours, Dubai is 1.5 CN Towers tall. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:07, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's not my tower, I'm a bushpig. There's a hotel nearby standing three storeys tall and even that freaks me out. "Yours" is that 1776er, eh? InedibleHulk (talk) 22:44, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yup, world's tallest structure outside of Asia, Toronto, putting one end of a really long string on something that floats/sinks/flies, topography, putting really long things on topography, some very hollow antennas only a few meters wide that'd fall without by a forest stretched of diagonal cables, and oil rigs that bend way more than land towers (up to 84+ feet) and might collapse if the sea didn't partly cancel their weight (like 90% is underwater). There's a 16 foot tall thin piece that makes it 1,792 feet tall though (1,806 feet above sea level, 1,813 above lowest tide on record (the offshore wind side of a cyclone), about 1,794.5 above the highest (the 2012 hurricane that flooded Ground Zero with seawater but we only got the onshore wind side)). I've freaked out looking at flat land only 2 floors high as far as the eye can see. The other sub-3 floor neighborhoods I've seen and a bus ride to the Rockies and back didn't bother me but the way this neighborhood I wanted to walk across looked from that vantage point it looked so weird. Walking in the country for the first time gave thoughts of walking too far out, this very local lack of signs of man in sight (besides one dirt road) continuing forever and starving to death though I knew I only needed to walk a few more miles. You ever dream you ran so fast you couldn't see where you're going, are now probably remote enough to starve to death if you weren't superhumanly fast, do a 180 and run a similar time and effort to get unlost, and find out you're not superhuman anymore? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 03:55, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nope. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:08, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Snow was starting to stick to the tundra in summer, I ran like the Flash and got trapped in Canada
. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:37, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
On further review, I'll concede that Toronto is indeed more like New York than Dubai. And yes, I forgot about those freaky transmission towers among the trees. Definitely scarier than the local haunted hotel. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:36, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That was the new box fucking up the text when you've written too much and me missing every fuckup. They're in a forest of diagonal steel cables pulling every Xth "floor" in every direction. I don't think they even have floors or stairs though, it's a glorified elevator. If they were in a forest they might fall down as soon as a storm drops heavy crap on the cables. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:30, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know what kind of fucked-up box you're talking about, but the forest towers I see are just steel frames, no floors, some thin steps welded on that make my knees weak even imagining climbing. Blinking red light on the top, like a caribou. If you ever go to visit, you'll see they're in clearings so no heavy crap (or what the natives call "wood") may intervene, but from a distance, there seems harmony. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:50, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah that's pretty much it, looks like a needle from far away, is really steel frame up to 2,121 feet tall, no floors, blinking red light at the top. steel cables tugging on various heights but except up close it looks like it's standing up unassisted. Maybe they don't all have elevators. The tallest ever made had an elevator until it collapsed, no walls. Its article has a vertiginous photo that makes it look infinitely tall. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 04:00, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The box you get when you click the reply link under each comment. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 04:35, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's not the box I get, I'm a bushpig. Old skin, manual indentation and no Javascript, the way the Browser Gods intended. Anyway, the towers I know are more like 200 feet, and anyone who can't climb 200 feet on a cold and windy day to change a lightbulb should probably find a new path through life (but not wanting to scale that next two thousand feet by hand is understandable, and those brave souls deserve all the luxury in the world). InedibleHulk (talk) 03:06, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's the heaviest crap that falls in a windstorm, anyway; occasionally something like the January 1998 North American ice storm comes drizzling in and all those fine lines are exactly what doom them to crumble while cubier creatures cope. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:59, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Furthermore, Gushue wins! I don't know Dunstone from Adam, but that's the sort of sport record a "typical" Canadian freaks out about, I hear, not alpine skiing. Objectively one hell of a skip, in any case, respected or not (and a mighty fine day for the real Ontarian London). InedibleHulk (talk) 05:59, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder if anyone's ever curled naked? At least for one or two stones. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:45, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
LeBron was national, Shiffrin is international, that's the big difference. cart-Talk 14:53, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The strongest league in the world by far and half of the superstars seem to have no connection to the Western Hemisphere growing up by now. Their first connection besides being fans is moving here to play at around 18 years old. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:22, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hey at least she surpassed LeBron on pageviews for a day. I mean, LeBron is either legitimately injured or load managing or whatever... Howard the Duck (talk) 22:55, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question - We very rarely post skiing news at all. This is a world-spanning contest; is there any argument for posting her latest victory as the main story, rather than the record it sets? GenevieveDEon (talk) 14:49, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Skiing competitions are not that big even when world-vide, so they take a backseat to say cricket and soccer unless something extraordinary and unprecedented happens. Like this. That's why I made the nom, to widen the scope of ITN just a smidgen. cart-Talk 15:00, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Constructive comment indeed, that is sort of an idea to make this work, even if you instinctively place the male name first in a blurb that is really about highlighting the female's accomplishment. ;-) Alt blub added, let's see were this can take us. cart-Talk 17:41, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
BUT I just realized we can't post a blurb about them being winners of the World Cup yet, since the cup doesn't end until 19 March. There are four more events to run. cart-Talk 18:14, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Masem and W.carter: I totally agree that posting the World Cup winners should be prioritised because it's an ITN/R item that doesn't get regularly posted due to quality problems. However, note that she clinched the World Cup title last weekend and the season ends next weekend when she may win additional races, so it's very unclear how this record can fit in that blurb (in Formula One, we post a blurb when the winner is known, not when the season ends, and the same logic should apply here). At the very least, it's good that we have this discussion to direct attention to alpine skiing and its ITN/R item in the future.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:53, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Because the men's and women's version of alpine skiing occur at the same time, both should be featured in the same blurb. If it is the case that a person can cinch before the end of the season in this sport, then it should be posted when both positions have been cinched, and if that's before the end of the season, great. Masem (t) 23:00, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. I’d still like to see this story posted after very long time, but adding this record to the blurb would seem redundant.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:06, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, that's why I said if it can be improved to a sufficiently adequate status. I'd have a go myself, but my knowledge of Alpine skiing is on a par with my knowledge of quantum physics. Black Kite (talk) 19:15, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It appears that I replied to you, but that's only because of the garbage editor. I started to write my comment replying to the main post, and then you posted before I posted, and now here we are in this conondrum :( 194.230.148.207 (talk) 19:19, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - again, the idea that Lebron's should have been pulled because it occurred at the same time as the Turko-Syrian earthquake and thus we were somehow being insulting to the victims is complete idiocy. Crusader1096 (message) 03:11, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I really hope people didn't make that argument. Ay caramba... – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 05:55, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Some did. There was also a huff-puff when the image was changed from the earthquake to something else. Curbon7 (talk) 13:29, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose individual records like this. It's not a very meaningful record either, given the number of events has varied substantially over the years. If you want us to post more skiing stories - and I have no objection to that - the place to start was the FIS Alpine World Ski Championships. That's on WP:ITNR, so is automatically posted if the article is good enough, but it wasn't even nominated this year. Modest Genius talk 11:49, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Was Michael Phelps posted? Having more Olympic golds than anyone is easier when the number of 50 to 400 meter swim races increased to vast amounts. They probably have a men and women alternating 4x200 meter 50 meters per style relay by now. And the same thing in 4x400 of course. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:52, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and Wait Opposing the posting of records of sportspersons; sports are well covered on ITNR, no need to open the floodgates for individual records. Both sports retirements and the postings of such records have rightly been considered against. Suggesting wait (per Masem) on the basis that this is part of an ITNR event and can be accomodated there but that will require a new nom when this event actually concludes. Gotitbro (talk) 17:40, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Tongo (entertainer)

[edit]
Article: Tongo (entertainer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Eseuro
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Peruvian singer and YouTuber. I already knew him. ay bicam sonam... --08:46, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

  • Weak Oppose I'm not too sure if the article is up to snuff yet, but that's mostly because in the Personal Life section, there's a bit of vague, unspecific language. I have nothing to do right now, though, so I'll try to fix that. TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 21:28, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Quality issues aside, there are still many unsourced covers in the music/career section. Cheers, because its my birthday!. WimePocy 13:27, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

14th national people's congress

[edit]
Article: 14th National People's Congress (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Li Qiang is elected as Premier of the People's Republic of China, succeeding Li Keqiang. (Post)
News source(s): https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-64924440
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: China changed premier. User:Editor 5426387(talk) 17:26, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Frankly, I'm unsure if this fits into ITN or not. He's definitely not the head of state, but his predecessor was blurbed when he became premier. To be fair, though, that was 10 years back, so I say oppose, since he's not the guy with the most power. TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 15:14, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Like the Xi nomination yesterday, this is simply rubber-stamping the decision made by the CCP a few months ago. China is a one-party state, where this supposed parliament simply confirms the decisions that were already made by the party. Li Qiang became Xi's effective deputy in October due to the retirement of Li Keqiang. The new activity is the People's Congress dutifully re-appointing Xi as head of state and appointing Li Qiang as head of government. As far as I am aware, those roles were never in doubt after the Party Congress. Modest Genius talk 15:41, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support As mentions per @TheBlueSkyClub, Keqiang was blurbed, that and that Qiang is a closer ally to Jinping, we have posted fixed elections before, this election fits into it, that and the rise of power that Xi has, definitely has to be noted on, even if this election is a small factor on it. Vriend1917 (talk) 02:32, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 10

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections


RD: R. Dhruvanarayana

[edit]
Article: R. Dhruvanarayana (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Indian Express
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian politician. Needs some sourcing! Tails Wx 04:49, 11 March 2023 (UTC) [reply]

WP:POINT
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Oppose since he was just one among 543 lok sabha members i doubt he was a particularly famous figure in india, let alone abroad. Synotia (moan) 13:51, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Synotia: All people who died recently are eligible for RD (if they have an article and it is high enough quality). BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:13, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's not because you can do something, that you should do it. A mantra that would also have made the DYK section suck less had they followed it :^) Synotia (moan) 23:00, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Synotia It's an RD, not a blurb nomination.
"Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post". Please read the links at the bottom of the nomination box. Rsrikanth05 (talk) 23:49, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, the guideline is there in order to not print a law codex of cases where people are notable and non-notable for the small section.
But I am still a person who values "quality over quantity"; this does not contradict the rule in question. Synotia (moan) 11:54, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well... quality in this case would mean article quality. And, to be fair, not too great as the nominator mentions. If by quality you mean if the person is qualified to make it on ITN/RD, then it does contradict the rule in question, as the box states that "any person, animal, or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be enough to post". TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 15:22, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Iran and Saudi Arabia reestablish diplomatic relations

[edit]
Article: Iran–Saudi Arabia relations (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Iran and Saudi Arabia agree to reestablish diplomatic relations, seven years after they were severed. (Post)
News source(s): New York Times NPR
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Restoration of diplomatic relations for two significant powers. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 02:05, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Per the above comments kindly made by other editors PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:00, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Matamoros kidnappings

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Article: 2023 Matamoros kidnappings (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Four Americans are kidnapped, with two being killed, in Matamoros, Mexico by alleged members of the Gulf Cartel. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Four missing Americans who were kidnapped in Matamoros, Mexico by alleged Gulf Cartel members, are found, with two of them being dead.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Two kidnapped Americans, along with the bodies of two other Americans, are found in Mexico.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Several Mexican men are arrested for their purported involvement in the kidnapping of four Americans and the killing of two of them.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ The Gulf Cartel turns over five men purportedly responsible for the kidnapping of four Americans in Matamoros, Mexico
Alternative blurb V: ​ Four Americans, allegedly mistaken for Haitian drug smugglers, are kidnapped, with two being killed, purportedly by the Gulf Cartel of Mexico.
News source(s): CNN, Associated Press
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Semi-fatal kidnapping of four Americans of Mexico that is receiving extensive coverage from journalists, geopolitical analysts, the governments involved, and the like. Has renewed discussion regarding Mexican cartels. Crusader1096 (message) 01:35, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Jesús Alou

[edit]
Article: Jesús Alou (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [32]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: A member of the Alou family, I'll reference this up in the coming hours – Muboshgu (talk) 22:43, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Failure of Silicon Valley Bank

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Proposed image
Article: Silicon Valley Bank (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Silicon Valley Bank is seized by the FDIC, marking the second largest bank failure in US history. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation takes control of Silicon Valley Bank in the second largest bank failure in U.S. history.
Alternative blurb II: Silicon Valley Bank is taken over by the United States Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation in the second largest bank failure in U.S. history.
Alternative blurb III: Silicon Valley Bank collapses following a bank run and is taken into receivership by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, in the second-largest bank failure in U.S. history.
News source(s): https://www.fdic.gov/news/press-releases/2023/pr23016.html
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: This is a very large bank failure following a run on the bank from investors. Was 18th largest bank in the US. Jip Orlando (talk) 18:07, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support; this is especially significant because of SVB's client base of venture capital funded startups (and at least one payroll processor, Rippling). --Alison (Crazytales) (talkedits) 18:38, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support, bordering on Wait On on hand its bankruptcy is definitely significant (2nd largest bankruptcy in US history!?), and a part of me is salty that we missed on reporting the collapse of FTX when it turned out to be more significant than we initially though (because discussion was shut down before its ramifications really took hold) and I don't want to miss out on another potentially significant one. On the other hand, I feel like we should probably wait to see if it does have a major impact on non-tech startup sectors of the economy. I'm also kinda weary about the article quality. Mount Patagonia (talk) 18:59, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is the second largest bank failure in US history. Copyedit: it should be "second" spelled out, per MOS:NUMERAL. Steven Walling • talk 19:03, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, updated. Jip Orlando (talk) 19:07, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Honestly, I don't know about this. On one hand, yes this is the second largest bank failure in American history. One the other hand, Masem has a good point. So really, I feel as if we need to wait to see if there are economic effects notable enough for this to be blurbed. Onegreatjoke (talk) 21:37, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support + alt blurb 3 🍁🏳️‍🌈 DinoSoupCanada 🏳️‍🌈 🍁 (talk) 00:30, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above. @Masem, @Ad Orientem, and @_-_Alsor, it may not be the most notable bank out there, but the second largest bank failure in American history is notable, and as @Davey2116 pointed out, it's receiving global WP:RS coverage.
@Jip Orlando and any ITN admins reading this, FYI, there is now an article called Collapse of Silicon Valley Bank. Crusader1096 (message) 00:43, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It remains an irrelevant bank beyond the United States. Another case of American centrism. Can’t wait to see when the 14th largest bank in Serbia collapses and is posted on Main Page. _-_Alsor (talk) 01:06, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Alsoriano97, does the 14th largest bank in Serbia have US$175 billion in assets? – Muboshgu (talk) 01:10, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And the one with $175 billion in assets is still the 18th largest bank in the United States. _-_Alsor (talk) 01:13, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You're overly hung up on the "18th largest" factoid rather than acknowledging the actual impact of the collapse. The U.S. and Serbia are not equal in many respects and treating their events on a 1-to-1 basis is based on a fallacy. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:18, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Which impact have the collapse of the 18th largest bank of the United States? _-_Alsor (talk) 01:22, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There are only 22 licensed banks in Serbia, and only five of which are actually based in Serbia. DecafPotato (talk) 01:12, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Additionally, the US is the world's largest economy by nominal GDP and second-largest by PPP. From Economy of the United States, The U.S. dollar is the currency of record most used in international transactions and is the world's foremost reserve currency. To act like the US economy doesn't have massive international impacts, and even trying to compare it to Serbia, who has an economy 400 times smaller than the US (IMF estimates by nominal GDP), is absurd. DecafPotato (talk) 01:22, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No one has said otherwise. But just because it happens in the U.S. doesn't mean it has free reign to be posted on Main Page. But well, I'm not discovering anything new or anything that hasn't already been commented on by dozens of editors. _-_Alsor (talk) 01:24, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But just because it happens in the U.S. doesn't mean it has free reign to be posted on Main Page. That's just a strawman – no one has said anything of the sort. I (and others, like Sideswipe9th) have given quantifiable proof of how this isn't US-internal. And even then: Arguments about a story relating to a particular geographic region, country, ethnicity, people group, etc. are generally seen as unhelpful. Almost all news is of greater interest to a particular place and/or group of people than to the world at large, and arguing that something should or should not be posted, solely because of where the event happened, or who might be "interested" in it because of its location, are not usually met with concurrence from the community. DecafPotato (talk) 02:09, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Considering that SVB's total assets is twice thrice Serbia's GDP, it really is comparing watermelons to cherries to say that this is US centrism. We wouldn't post an Argentinian debt default, either, but a US debt default is an entirely different story. Juxlos (talk) 02:23, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It remains an irrelevant bank beyond the United States. That's not strictly true. Northern Ireland (where I live) gets a lot of investment and interest from Silicon Valley based companies. There's already talks within our local tech community of emergency meetings being called by local team/branch leaders due to the secondary impacts this is expected to have on access to investment capital. Sideswipe9th (talk) 01:25, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please abstain from voicing opinions on the topic you do not know anything about. Wikipedia will be better for it. Synotia (moan) 17:02, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hatting WP:NOTFORUM and WP:NOTCRYSTAL content
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Support. There should be an ongoing news item here about the inflation problem and the tightening by the FED. The cause of the collapse of the bank is the higher interest rates that the markets have not have to deal with for a decade. So, we should expect a lot more failures, not just banks whose bond holding have become worthless collateral, but many other companies will now have become zombie companies that cannot survive at 6 percent interest rates for long. Many trillions of dollars of corporate debt is going to roll over to the much higher interest rates. This will cause a recession, it is debatable how bad this will be, but one thing is certain: the stock market will tank because it has hardly factored in any of the effects of the much higher interest rates. The stock market may lose 2/3 of its value, even in a soft-landing scenario because of inflated earnings estimates. The S&P500 could sink below 1500 and take more than a decade to climb back above 4000. Count Iblis (talk) 05:49, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    ITN does not post on expectations. If and when the crisis begins, it should be posted, but WP:CRYSTAL applies otherwise and Wikipedia is not /r/WallStreetBets. Juxlos (talk) 10:55, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support - This is a major matter, and deserves the attention it's getting. Yes, in some areas (eg changes of government) we treat all sovereign states fairly equally in principle. But in many others, the situation on the ground directly affects the degree of focus that events receive. The USA's financial sector is huge, and the failure of a major specialist lender within it has immediate widespread consequences. Some kinds of story out of a nation the size of the USA become routine which wouldn't in other areas; but equally, the USA is capable of producing stories of certain kinds that many other countries don't. GenevieveDEon (talk) 16:42, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Xi Jinping re-elected

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Nominator's comments: Chinese leader re-elected for 3rd term. User:Editor 5426387 (message) 02:12, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Article isn't there, but this is highly notable. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 15:31, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We did, and I supported that decision. I therefore oppose this as needless duplication. GenevieveDEon (talk) 15:47, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

March 9

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections


RD: Satish Kaushik

[edit]
Article: Satish Kaushik (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Indian Express, Times of India
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian actor. Some {{citation needed}} tags, but I'm working on it! Tails Wx 03:36, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, there! Article is in good shape, with all tags resolved! Tails Wx 04:15, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
One cn tag is still present. Vacant0 (talk) 10:10, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Now sourced! Tails Wx 13:07, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Robert Blake

[edit]
Article: Robert Blake (actor) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: A lot of sourcing work needed, large unsourced filmography. Mooonswimmer 02:17, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Rough Shape Somewhat surprising considering how controversial the subject was. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:03, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Electra Glide in Blue sticks in my mind as a significant movie and it's interesting to recall that he was the star. I never watched Baretta or the Little Rascals but can see how they would matter to US readers. And with the high drama of his real life too, that's quite an article and so I expect that readers will be turning up in large numbers. As the name is quite common, burying it in RD without any context or picture is a waste of time. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:07, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If you want to change how RD works, make a formal proposal. Arguing that we shouldn't post this unless we blurb it because you find his name commonplace is not a convincing position, and it looks like disruption. GenevieveDEon (talk) 10:22, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There's already an open proposal on the ITN talk page and I have commented there. The issue here is what's to be done in this case. What I notice now is that the subject first performed under his real name of Mickey Gubitosi. That seems more eye-catching. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:08, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
He's the only Robert Blake I recognize (not that my limited awareness weighs more than yours). InedibleHulk (talk) 21:12, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You are not alone as it was the top read article yesterday with about half a million views. For comparison, there was a DYK that i worked on the main page yesterday and that just got 1,678 views. So, being in the news is more important than being on the main page. I did a bit of clean-up work on his name and family history and see that there's more to do. Strike while the iron is hot... Andrew🐉(talk) 10:50, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No! It doesn't have any useless howevers or ampersands that suck, so it's not my problem. If half a million other people see something so wrong with it, they can just stop reading in disgust or fix what's more themselves. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:58, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment May I request that we not make this nom a mile long by everyone registering their oppose blurb votes just because someone mentioned it? This is a long shot for an RD right now. GreatCaesarsGhost 11:58, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now; the article contains simply too many missing citations for a BLP. Even beyond the CN tags already in the article, there's also significant portions of the narrative that are still unverifiable, but which just haven't been tagged yet. Fix that to get it posted. --Jayron32 13:10, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not yet ready Still missing several citations. Curbon7 (talk) 13:13, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Georgian NGO protests

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Proposed image
Police and protestors in the capital of Tbilisi
Article: 2023 Georgian protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Protests erupt in Georgia after the government attempted to pass a law identifying NGOs as foreign agents based on the amount of funds they receive from abroad. (Post)
News source(s): CNN[failed verification]
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Nominating this article as a standard blurb instead of ongoing since this will likely die down in a few days. Crusader1096 (message) 02:12, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose on quality at least. The entire protests are written in just four sentences and honestly feels stubby in a way. Onegreatjoke (talk) 03:14, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support, once quality issues gets resolved. MarioJump83 (talk) 05:24, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose People protest against different things in different places all the time. So, unless the protests are violent enough to cause casualties and prompt any abrupt changes in opinion, there isn't really a strong argument for posting.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:01, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for the exact same reason I opposed the last time this was nominated, a few hours ago. The article updates are not up to the quality expected, all of the recent events consist of a few WP:PROSELINE sentences. This should be written as a proper narrative and significantly expanded if it is going to be up to the quality to link on the main page. It doesn't really matter where on the main page the link appears, whether in the blurb section or the ongoing section, the article is not good enough. Make it better. --Jayron32 13:08, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Though article needs work PrecariousWorlds (talk) 15:31, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on Quality (again). Once again, the target article lacks much discussion of the actual protests. If we are going to blurb protests we need the article targeting the protests to actually talk about the protests. DarkSide830 (talk) 15:59, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose at this point, at least. Right now, the French protests are drawing far more people and incidents with events still drawing 1M+ people to protests. This is ~10k people at best and while there is protestors-vs-police incidents, there's nothing yet significant at the larger level. In addition to article quality problems. --Masem (t) 21:25, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hamburg shooting

[edit]
Article: 2023 Hamburg shooting (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Sixteen people are shot and eight killed at a Kingdom Hall in Hamburg, Germany. (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

 elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 22:54, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Unless there's more details pointing to why I should go for the contrary. Most of the US mass shootings don't get blurbed, so why should a German one be blurbed? I don't like the idea of supporting it just because of the amount of deaths, unless the death toll is in the double digits. Not to mention, article is a little lacking in general. TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 23:20, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that 'any other country' is hyperbole. But the USA is a massive outlier compared to the rest of the industrialised world; Germany is much more typical, and this even is exceptional. GenevieveDEon (talk) 10:28, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what point you're making here. GenevieveDEon (talk) 10:28, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm saying that list ignores the mass shootings included in Category:People murdered in Nazi Germany. The regime also expanded rapidly beyond the territory it claims today. There was a first World War since 1910 as well, but the less said about that, the better. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:47, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose -- Barring the possibility that the shooting was a terrorist attack or religiously motivated. As it stands, we would not post this if this happened in the US, so there is no reason to treat shootings elsewhere any different; hence I agree with TheBlueSkyClub. (But I also realize that the anti-American bias in ITN probably means that my oppose won't matter) --RockstoneSend me a message! 23:49, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In what way is shooting up a church not terrorism? GenevieveDEon (talk) 10:28, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's not an accepted definition of terrorism. In this case, it appears the attacker was a member of the same church and knew many of the targets. That's not terrorism, and even if it was that wouldn't make the event more substantial. Modest Genius talk 13:22, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment — Several people have commented equating this event to mass shootings in the United States. We don't post mass shootings in the United States unless they happen to be exceptionally notable because they happen every day. A mass shooting at a church in Germany is practically unheard of, coupled with an abnormal death count and dozens of injuries. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 23:52, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nipping this in the bud before it gets out of hand. --WaltClipper -(talk) 13:27, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Mass shootings that kill 6+ people in the US are still uncommon. Also, we're clumping all the states in the US together and then claiming that makes them common, while the individual nations of the EU are treated separately. How often do mass shootings occur in the EU as a whole? (Seriously, I'm asking because I'm curious now) -- RockstoneSend me a message! 00:14, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The states of the USA are not politically comparable to independent nations, and the member states of the EU are independent nations. This isn't the first time that someone has proposed a novel political theory to justify a skewed view of the USA at ITN (I recall 'the Leader of the House is a head of government' not that long ago), and it probably won't be the last. But the USA is one nation, with a long-standing problem of firearms violence. Please don't judge the rest of the world by US political structures, or US death rates. GenevieveDEon (talk) 10:28, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You can get a feel for the overall numbers by looking at categories such as 2022 mass shootings. In that year, it appears that there were 75 notable mass shootings globally of which 10 were in Europe and 25 in the USA. What seems to skew the argument is that there are lots of lesser mass shootings in the USA which don't get articles. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:24, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional Support - mass shootings aren't that common in Deutschland, however the article is a stub and needs expansion. Crusader1096 (message) 01:05, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is very unusual, extraordinary event that may well be the very first mass shooting to ever happened on Jehovah's Witnesses events around the world. The article needs work, however. MarioJump83 (talk) 01:42, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality. The article is a stub. Once it is ready I would change to a support. I know we wouldn't post it if it happened in the US but location is a key part in notability. We might not like that but it is the truth. Aure entuluva (talk) 03:44, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now The article is not yet ready. Shootings in Europe are not common, let alone when they result in almost 10 fatalities. The key is, above all, that the attack is committed against a minority religious denomination (and historically repressed in Europe, especially in Germany), which suggests (pending official confirmation) that it is an attack with a discriminatory motive. _-_Alsor (talk) 08:08, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's certainly a different between newsworthy events (of which I would classify every shooting into) and notable events, ones that actually have long-term, lingering effects. This event is clearly newsworthy but given that it appears to be domestic (not international or hate-driven) violence, I can't see what long-term effects could come from it. --Masem (t) 22:17, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • You said international or hate-driven violence, not international hate crime. Four Syrians and three Iranian-backed Afghans were blown up by (probably) Israel the other day, while at least 35 Congolese were killed by (probably) Islamists, wasn't even nominated. If an international hate crime ever was, I don't remember it. That's not to say it never happened. But most posted mass shootings have been domestic affairs since I've been around. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:58, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: this isn't in the news to the extent of other shootings that have occurred in the recent past. No mention of it on the front page of RTE, The New York Times, The Times, BBC, or France 24.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 01:07, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now: The content in the article still feels quite bare. Other mass shootings like in the US have considerably more content than this. I am very well aware of the anti-US slant when it comes to such events. Nevertheless, the information is still not sufficient enough even if such events are rare in this particular nation. --Birdienest81talk 04:49, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    What makes American mass shooting articles immediately fatter than those in more polite and structured societies is that police who are not authorized to speak on ongoing investigations routinely do anyway, anonymously, for money. It seems unwise to expect the whole German system to adapt such killer filler methods just to get a story on the global front page. I'd rather think of it as a Hamburg shooting and just accept it on its own merits, as a different kind of article about a whole new thing. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:30, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Eh, I think when there have been mass shootings in anglophone countries other than the US, the articles tend to be decent. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 08:44, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Head count Considering only "in principle" and not accounting for article quality, I count 15 supports, 6 opposes, and 2 neutral/ambivalent. I'm discounting two opposes of "we wouldn't post this in the US" since ITN custom is indeed that the US is exceptional in this field. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 14:31, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    At the same time, the amount of coverage of this event has waned significantly (no stories I see today, and only a couple yesterday). This is the burst of coverage that under WP;N and NEVENT would not warrant an article. Masem (t) 14:44, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    You cannot discount opposes that rightly point out that we wouldn't post this in the US and treat Germany as a different case. So, there's actually 9 opposes. This should probably closed under "no consensus". --RockstoneSend me a message! 22:52, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes I can, and have; the US has factors that make it unique in shooting frequencies and irrelevant in comparison to other industrialized countries, so ITN has recognized that opposing shootings by argumentum ad Americam are bunk. Indeed, it's part of my job to separate the wheat from the chaff rather than rely on a pure count that anyone could do. (In any event, you are correct that this will probably eventually be closed given its staleness notwithstanding this point of order.) – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 05:23, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Personally, I close based off of WP:ITN: It is highly subjective whether an event is considered significant enough, and ultimately each event should be discussed on its own merits. The consensus among those discussing the event is all that is necessary to decide if an event is significant enough for posting. For better or for worse, ITN has no guidelines or even widely cited essays on preferred outcomes.—Bagumba (talk) 09:32, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • oppose - seems like the case of a rare but not necessarily an all that important event --TorsodogTalk 17:39, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Eight people were killed in a church in a country where American-scale mass shootings rarely happen. Curbon7 (talk) 13:12, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mystic Meg

[edit]
Article: Mystic Meg (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sky News BBC News
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British astrologer and journalist  The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 10:38, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing: 2023 Georgian protests

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2023 Georgian protests (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Ongoing recent protests in the country of Georgia. Kafoxe (talk) 02:57, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as of now. The article is fairly light on material that talks particularly about the protests. Until more information about the protests themselves can be provided, this article is not sufficient for ITN. DarkSide830 (talk) 03:13, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now the law has been withdrawn by the ruling party, so it can be expected that the protests will not continue for the time being. It's clear that these are important protests because they go beyond a popular rejection of a law. _-_Alsor (talk) 08:25, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait It looks like things will probably quiet down (as mentioned above) in which case there's no need to post now and have it turn out to be very minor. Flyingfishee (talk) 09:30, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait Slowly growing in size and notability, let’s see if they get up to Euromaidan levels or not before we unceremoniously toss the nom. The Kip (talk) 12:25, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait - Per others. You could also argue this is covered already in the Russian Invasion of Ukraine ongoing, but that's a little dubious. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:30, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wouldn't it be helpful to post a blurb about this before moving it into Ongoing? It's impossible right now to estimate whether this will be suitable for Ongoing. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 12:32, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    ^ PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:37, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Portal There are several protests in the news currently. Off the top of my head, these include protests about pensions in France, women's rights in Iran and elswehere, the supreme court in Israel and more. We have a long list of protests in the 21st century but that's not suitable for ITN as it's not organised by year. I reckon that the best solution is to surface ITN's link to the Current events portal so it's clearer to readers where to go to find the most comprehensive list of current events. As well as blurbs, the portal has a sidebar which currently lists 7 protest articles in its politics section. And it lists a lot more besides and so seems a good summary of everything that's in the news. It seems so good because editors can just add entries without all the drama, discussion and delay which stops ITN getting much done. Andrew🐉(talk) 13:11, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The current article is actually fairly dreadful for an ongoing post. The "Ongoing" nature of the updates has been three WP:PROSELINE sentences. Ugh. Not something we should be putting on the main page as an example of quality work. If someone were to expand and flesh this out into proper, well written narrative, I could easily support this, but not in the current state. --Jayron32 13:16, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Per Above - User:Editor 5426387 (talk) 14:09, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Curbon7 keep your $5. Crusader1096 (message) 15:24, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose ongoing for now, support blurb This has potential to become the biggest protests since Color Revolution, but we had to wait for it before that happens. Also, the law has been discarded by the ruling party, so it is possible the escalation won't ever happen anyway. But this is notable enough that a blurb is possible. MarioJump83 (talk) 22:43, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Removed) Remove Turkey–Syria earthquake

[edit]
Article: 2023 Turkey–Syria earthquake (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)

Nominator's comments: Does not appear to be any significant additional events since February. GreatCaesarsGhost 01:33, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 8

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Law and crime


RD: Dolores Klaich

[edit]
Article: Dolores Klaich (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Vermont Digger
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Looks ready. Thriley (talk) 18:20, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Bert I. Gordon

[edit]
Article: Bert I. Gordon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Notable B-film movie producer, including about 1/3rd of the movies on MST3K. The article's filmgraphy needs sourcing. Masem (t) 01:22, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(posted) RD: Topol

[edit]
Article: Chaim Topol (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Actor. GA Blythwood (talk) 05:54, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ian Falconer

[edit]
Article: Ian Falconer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Creator of the "Olivia" piglet character. Relatively short article, "Awards" section is completely unsourced. Mooonswimmer 17:20, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 7

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology


(Posted) RD: Lynn Seymour

[edit]
Article: Lynn Seymour (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [35]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Canadian ballet dancer, one of the most influential dancers of the Royal Ballet. Note that most of the images are tagged for missing evidence of permission, and will be deleted on the 16 March if nothing is done. Some paragraphs do not have a source at the moment, those will be addressed. Corachow (talk) 12:26, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Gerda Arendt: I expanded the lead a bit, with the Royal Ballet, two choreographers she was most associated with, and some famous ballets she created roles in. One day I will expand the article further, but at least the article is at a respectable shape. Corachow (talk) 18:46, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

David Chipperfield wins 2023 Pritzker Prize

[edit]
Proposed image
(2012)
Article: David Chipperfield (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ British architect David Chipperfield wins the 2023 Pritzker Architecture Prize (Post)
News source(s): CNN, Aljazeera, Deutsche Welle, Architectural Record
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Recurring item. --ELEKHHT 00:36, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You know exactly where to go if you want it to be removed. WaltClipper -(talk) 03:23, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's on ITNR because it's the top prize in architecture, roughly equivalent to the Noble Prize in Literature. We've posted the winners almost every year. Modest Genius talk 11:06, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Really? "We've posted the winners almost every year" ? In 2022 Kere wasn't posted, the 2020-2021 winners weren't even nominated, the 2019 winner was posted then pulled, 2018 wasn't posted... the latest I can find as 'posted' is 2016 Aravena. -ELEKHHT 13:26, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A brief search shows it was posted in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2020 and 2021. In 2018 and 2022 it was nominated but went stale before the article was brought up to standard. 2019 was posted but then pulled due to article quality issues. I couldn't find anything for 2017, but we don't have articles on each of those winners so it probably wasn't nominated. That's a pretty strong track record. Significance of the award was never doubted, only article quality ever prevented us posting. Modest Genius talk 13:56, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Insufficient update per WP:ITNCRIT: ... a five-sentence update (with at minimum three references, not counting duplicates) is generally more than sufficient, while a one-sentence update is highly questionable. The bio shouldn't require link chasing to figure out what the award is for—other than being "prestigious"—and why he was selected.—Bagumba (talk) 04:29, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wikilinks are at the basis of Wikipedia and "The decision as to when an article is updated enough is subjective" per WP:ITN. Is the article supposed to repeat what the Pritzker Prize is - and is each Nobel Prize winner's article re-describing the Nobel Prize? --ELEKHHT
MOS:LINK is clear: Do not unnecessarily make a reader chase links.—Bagumba (talk) 16:19, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I agree with Bagumba, the article needs more than a one sentence update. Needs at least a few sentences of referenced prose. Modest Genius talk 11:06, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I've just taken a closer look at the article. There are a lot of missing or incomplete citations and an indiscriminate list, which I've tagged. Also the one-paragraph descriptions of his buildings in the 'major works' sections read very strangely - I wonder if they're close paraphrasing or translation of the references, which are mostly pages in a French-language coffee table book. Needs work. Modest Genius talk 18:58, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality - Per above. Also, I know we aren't meant to share POV, but I personally think his architecture looks terrible. Despite this, it may be good to actually include a picture of a building he's designed, as that may be more relevant PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:32, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If you know you're not meant to share it, why did you share it? --WaltClipper -(talk) 12:58, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WaltClipper is right. Also, the award is not for a building, hence is problematic choosing one building. A mozaic of all buildings named in the award would be too small for the ITN format. I agree that the image of the architect is not key, and this could be posted without an image. --ELEKHHT 13:39, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
On the Pritzker Architecture Prize, sample buildings from the architects are depicted. In any case, it's more useful than showing him PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:02, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The "Completed Works" section does need to be sourced for any building that is not a blue link already, though I suspect there's a single RS that covers all his works. --Masem (t) 13:41, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Modern architecture is a lot like modern life, where risk is rewarded and the places we know we should go rarely line up with where we really want to be. You were right to rock the boat, PW, but the Pritzker gods have spoken and Chipperfield did win their favour, so who are you to say what we mere mortals are already thinking, eh? Anyway, it's all good, but these ugly buildings aren't the real heroes here, no matter how much those in the know like them, it's this larger-than-life historical figure who's destined to take the living person spotlight from Estonia's latest civil servant (meaning no disrespect). InedibleHulk (talk) 19:56, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The prize seems to be awarded for the subject's lifetime portfolio rather than for a specific recent project. The article seems quite substantial, providing illustrations of a good variety of buildings. The reader will not be disappointed. Andrew🐉(talk) 13:27, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Chipperfield article is fine for ITN. One or two CN tags is not enough to halt this being added. Crusader1096 (message) 15:27, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above. Article seems to be of sufficient quality for main page. --Jayron32 19:07, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Peterson Zah

[edit]
Article: Peterson Zah (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [36]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 17:57, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support - article looks good and adequately cited. Crusader1096 (message) 15:29, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Close, but not yet ready Need some more details (like only a couple sentences) on the 1990 election to be considered holistic. Also, is there content that can be added about his tenure in any of the positions that he held before his election as president, as that paragraph is simply a resume of his positions. Curbon7 (talk) 13:16, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Prafulla Kumar Jena

[edit]
Article: Prafulla Kumar Jena (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times of India
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian metallurgist. Padma Shri awardee. Article requires some work and should be good for homepage / RD. Did not require much by way of edits. Good C-class biography. Meets homepage hygiene requirements. Ktin (talk) 04:24, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Tom Love

[edit]
Article: Tom Love (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Oklahoman
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American businessman and owner of truck stop chain. Article seems to be largely well sourced except for a little bit of over reliance on an WP:SPSTartarTorte 20:39, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing: COVID-19

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: COVID-19 pandemic (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: With the lab-leak scenario resurfacing in the press, CNN, BBC, EuroNews, NPR, how come this hasn't been re-added to ongoing? 2A02:2F0E:DE11:4500:550:43EB:B75E:B1FF (talk) 00:28, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and SNOW close We already debated and ultimately decided against posting the lab-leak hypothesis story; additionally, ITN is also based on whether articles have received consistent updates, while most COVID articles have slowed to a crawl update-wise as the worst has passed and the world has moved on. The Kip (talk) 00:37, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    We didn't decide against the lab leak hypothesis, we decided against posting it until claims are made with higher confidence. But yeah, the article doesn't have enough frequent updates to warrant Ongoing imo. DecafPotato (talk) 01:37, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose The media are blowing this one out of the water from a MEDRD stance. The DOE and FBI may have reason to suspect the lab leak theory, but neither put it as a high likelihood, and given the stance of other branches of the US govt, there's no reason to suspect the lab leak theory to be correct, much to the chagrin of the right that desperately want it to legit. This is definitely not the story to elevate COVID back to ongoing. --Masem (t) 01:14, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. User:Editor 5426387(talk) 01:21, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Editor 5426387, I will donate $5 to the WMF if you for once give a rationale that isn't either "per above" or a complete logical fallacy. Curbon7 (talk) 01:54, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Curbon7, you will? Actually? ;) Tails Wx 02:30, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. plus you don't hear any news about COVID19 anymore.TomMasterRealTALK 02:00, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • SNOW Oppose Aside from lab-leak theory whose belief is mostly widespread, and always has been, in the U.S. (never heard of it outside U.S. IIRC, including my country, Indonesia, and there's nothing about my country's stance on COVID-19 origins), COVID-19 is not something we see on the news anymore. Most people moved on to bigger things that is nowhere related to COVID. MarioJump83 (talk) 02:27, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, we've already went against the fact to post the lab-leak story, and the last signifcant updates to the article was in early February. Additionally, I would SNOW close this as well. And I do wish one scientific event is posted to ITN this year! :) Tails Wx 02:28, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's 71 degrees here in Texas, how is there snow in the air? Crusader1096 (message) 03:07, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and WP:SNOW Close per above. Crusader1096 (message) 03:10, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Look, there's new technology. We've got snow in 70 degree weather–in Pennsylvania! Tails Wx 03:13, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - We've had extensive discussions over this. Like it or not, COVID-19 is simply a part of life now. It's endemic. Keeping it as ongoing is like having Climate Change as ongoing
As for the lab leak story, if there's any major developments we can post, but I don't think it needs ongoing status PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:21, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose Per all replies, this has been removed, if it was then that usually means that we shouldn’t post it again unless there’s an actual very important thing. Vriend1917 (talk) 11:42, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

March 6

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections


(Posted) RD: Traute Lafrenz

[edit]
Article: Traute Lafrenz (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [37]
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Although Lafrenz died on 6 March, this has only just been reported in the press. Vladimir.copic (talk) 22:30, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Heinz Schwarz

[edit]
Article: Heinz Schwarz (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NR-Kurier
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German politician, with positions from local mayor to member of national parliament Bundestag, friend of Helmut Kohl and serving as minister of the interior in the Rhineland-Palatinate state when Kohl was minister-president. He was one of two people who attended all party conventions from inauguration in 1950 to 2020, imagine. The article is a rather faithful translation of the German, with sources (which the German had not. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:43, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Tymofiy Shadura

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Tymofiy Shadura (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [38]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 TJMSmith (talk) 18:45, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Georgina Beyer

[edit]
Article: Georgina Beyer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Being widely reported in reputable New Zealand media: [40] [41] [42]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Recent death of a notable New Zealander (world's first openly transgender mayor, world's first openly transgender MP). Article looks in reasonably good shape but there could be some tidy-ups; I'm going to start looking at it now. Chocmilk03 (talk) 04:23, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 5

[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections


RD: Qavi Khan

[edit]
Article: Qavi Khan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Geo
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Ainty Painty (talk) 02:45, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Gary Rossington

[edit]
Article: Gary Rossington (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline Hollywood
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Founding member of Lynyrd Skynyrd. Needs a few more bits of sourcing to get ready for RD. Masem (t) 02:39, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2023 Estonian parliamentary election

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2023 Estonian parliamentary election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the Estonian parliamentary election, the Reform Party (leader Kaja Kallas pictured) wins the most seats in the Riigikogu. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, ERR, AP
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: ITN/R, article is up-to-date, and the results of the election have been fully announced --Vacant0 (talk) 23:34, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment @Vacant0 Could you provide a source for the results with your nomination? Estar8806 (talk) 23:49, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
My bad, I've forgot to add one. I've added it now. --Vacant0 (talk) 23:51, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Estar8806 (talk) 23:54, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Page looks ITN ready. However, I would suggest "amount of" be dropped as it is redundant "most seats" is fine by itself. Estar8806 (talk) 23:56, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Done --Vacant0 (talk) 00:37, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Tate Makgoe

[edit]
Article: Tate Makgoe (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/national/2023-03-05-free-state-education-mec-tate-makgoe-dies-in-car-crash/
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Long-serving provincial cabinet minister. Died this morning.  Lefcentreright  Discuss  18:58, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Looks good, everything seems to be sourced. --Vacant0 (talk) 16:55, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Could use an additional 2-4 sentences in the political career section regarding what he accomplished in his various positions. At present, it is almost entirely a list of committees and dates with limited depth. SpencerT•C
  • Weak support While there is still some expansion to be desired, I think the article is sufficient in holisticity for our purposes, as provides some coverage of his tenure in the legislature. Curbon7 (talk) 13:02, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Liverpool 7-0 Man Utd

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.



Article: 2022-23 Premier League (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Liverpool defeat Manchester United with a score of 7-0 in the Premier League to hand them their biggest defeat in their history. (Post)
News source(s): NBC Sports
Credits:
 2600:1700:31BA:9410:7901:E937:36CC:5F09 (talk) 18:35, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Pedro Rodrigues Filho

[edit]
Article: Pedro Rodrigues Filho (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [43]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Most prolific serial killer in Brazil's history. Silent-Rains (talk) 16:53, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Not yet ready No explanation as to why he was arrested the second time, and the article does not sufficiently cover his brief but eventful criminal career to be considered holistic. Curbon7 (talk) 12:57, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

UN treaty to protect ocean life

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Proposed image
Marine protected areas in 2020. The new treaty would enable these to be established in international waters.
Articles: United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (talk · history · tag) and High Seas Treaty (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Agreement is reached on the text of a UN treaty to protect ocean life in international waters. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, negotiators agree to a High Seas Treaty, intended to protect the natural environment in international waters
News source(s): BBC; France24; NYT; What is the treaty?
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: This is being described in mainstream media as a "historic treaty", as it will provide some protection for the ocean life in international waters which is already quite endangered by the current free-for-all. The process of ratification and implementation will no doubt be protracted and imperfect, but it has taken ten years to get to this point, so to reach agreement seems a significant achievement. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:02, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • The next steps are formalities, "Following two weeks of intense talks, including a marathon overnight session Friday into Saturday, delegates finalized a text that now cannot be significantly altered. "There will be no reopening or discussions of substance," Lee told negotiators. The agreement will be formally adopted at a later date once it has been vetted by lawyers and translated into the United Nations' six official languages, she announced." [44]. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:53, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Also, passing of the treaty by individual states, too. That's not trivial Masem (t) 13:51, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support upon official ratification Crusader1096 (message) 22:32, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The red states are not party to UNCLOS
  • Oppose per The Kip. Barely any update to the page. Beyond that, I question the statement that this is a really landmark decision. This treaty does not have universal (or really close to universal) membership with countries such as the US as non-members. Feels like another one of those treaties where the countries that care about protecting biodiversity still will and ones that don't will continue to not give a you-know-what because ultimately the repercussions rarely ever come. DarkSide830 (talk) 16:47, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The US is unique in having signed the UNCLOS agreement but then failing to ratify it. Another list explains that "the ratification of a significant number of treaties signed after 1990 has been blocked by senators of the Republican Party for various ideological reasons". Andrew🐉(talk) 17:38, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support - Positive news for once! Diversity in the stories we post! In The News! Save our fishes! PrecariousWorlds (talk) 17:32, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The issue isn't that it's positive but that it's a two-sentence update in the target article. That's not exactly at front-page significance yet. The Kip (talk) 03:01, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Article is very nearly there PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:07, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The article as a whole, sure, but there’s still a grand total of two sentences addressing this development. The Kip (talk) 16:48, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now, support once ratified if the article’s quality is good enough. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 17:49, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update Note that there's a separate article for this now. I still reckon that the main UNCLOS article is better as it gives the overall framework and has a section detailing the negotiations for this addition to it. Note that ratification is not a simple matter as each party will ratify in their own time and the process is drawn out over years -- over 10 years for the original UNCLOS. We should therefore focus on what's in the news right now which is the milestone of this agreement. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:47, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Alsor. As we have done previously with Finland's attempt to join NATO, we generally do not post "we intend to do the thing". We post "we did the thing". --WaltClipper -(talk) 14:02, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, the finalization of this document is doing a thing. Ratification would be another thing, but that is likely relatively routine compared to the sheer work it took to get to this stage. (If this is delayed, support then too of course.) CMD (talk) 14:08, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Small update, incremental on-paper step, no indication any animals have actually been further protected. InedibleHulk (talk) 14:24, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle, though the target article should be High Seas Treaty not a section in the UNCLOS article. Altblurb added. Unfortunate that isn't ready to be posted in ITN - it's a one-paragraph stub. I would be happy posting this now if it was ready - the remaining steps are pro forma and won't change the outcome (maybe which countries will actually abide by the treaty, but that will take a decade to shake out). We could wait for the treaty to enter into force when enough ratifications come in (could be months or years) and use that time to improve the article. Still, it's in the news now, so better to post now if the article can be brought up to scratch. Modest Genius talk 14:38, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle on the notability of the story, but it makes sense to wait until the treaty enters into force per Modest Genius. If this isn't news material that should appear on the main page of an encyclopedia, then I really don't know what is. I also don't agree with the comments above that this is just a marginal change because this round of talks concludes the six-year process of reaching an agreement that should be further ratified.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:26, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Nobody said this was a marginal change. A few suggested it was "just" another step in a somewhat important and partially binding textual change. If the whole agreement (yet to be "formally adopted") should be further ratified, that just goes to show the entire process hasn't concluded in this round of talk. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:07, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    No-one said it with those words but with that meaning. This round of talks is surely more notable than the previous five because now we know an agreement has been reached. I don’t think its ratification is a big deal, so the next major step is its entrance into force. That being said, the choice is literally between posting it now or waiting until it enters into force.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:43, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It can be tricky to guess what people mean with their words, especially in writing. As I can't recall ever hearing or reading about the five first rounds, I'll agree this seems like the biggest one so far. At which point would you say this text "enters into force"? By "per Modest Genius", I figured it'd be when enough members ratify it, but per "I don't think its ratification is a big deal", I may have figured wrong. Me, I'd like to see the establishment of a marine protected area in international waters before I know it's working. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:12, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    That’s another tricky thing. The treaty will enter into force at some point, and it’ll make sense to post it then (as we posted Croatia’s accession to the eurozone and Schengen Area). However, it’s possible that people will view it as a pure formality and point out to when an agreement was reached.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:50, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Tricky indeed. As the BBC notes, Despite the breakthrough in agreeing the treaty there is still a long way to go before it is legally agreed. Those involved have apparently agreed on the proposed text, which many still disagree should be enforced in some practical way. If that agreement is reached, I'll point to it. Other people can point to this "breakthrough" phase, I suppose, but it won't make the later outcome(s) any more or less newsworthy. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:47, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm puzzled why you say 'wait per Modest Genius', when I said 'better to post now'. Modest Genius talk 20:20, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    We could wait was catchier, on account of its capital letter, three-word punch and following assurance of more time to do a better job. That's my guess, anyway. Could be more! InedibleHulk (talk) 20:40, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Modest Genius: I also think it's better to post it now (otherwise, I'd have changed the order of 'support' and 'wait'), but waiting until it enters into force is a reasonable alternative.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:42, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait This seems like one step along the path towards ratification. I agree that this is a story that would likely merit posting on ITN, but at this stage, it seems like it would be more appropriate to post the final ratification. --Jayron32 15:32, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait per above. User:Editor 5426387(talk) 16:05, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question to the waiters, what exactly does ratification mean here to you? That each member state has ratified it? A majority? That the p5 have ratified it? nableezy - 20:06, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, a lot of commenters seem to be misunderstanding what 'ratification' means. Each country will ratify in its own way and on its own timetable - there won't be one date when suddenly everyone accedes. Is there a threshold for entering into force, or is it binding on each country as soon as they ratify? If there's no threshold, it's going to be difficult to decide when to post... Modest Genius talk 20:18, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The article High Seas Treaty indicates it doesn't go into effect until it's adopted formally by a UN resolution and then ratified by at least 60 member states, so there's the threshhold. The Kip (talk) 20:21, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    And certainly, the formal UN resolution would be a better point to call it news, knowing that getting the member states to ratify will take a couple of years. Masem (t) 00:37, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Per the article on the Treaty itself, it needs to be formally adopted via a UN resolution and ratified by at least 60 parties to the treaty in order to go into effect, so that's what ratification would mean here. The Kip (talk) 20:19, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    OK, if there's a 60 ratification threshold, that would work. Modest Genius talk 20:20, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • That explains who "they" might be, but not how they plan to enforce this (the protection of ocean life). In the linked case, "they" didn't even handle it, they just told Italy and India they needed to drop their investigations before anything could proceed. The Permanent Court of Arbitration actually settled that entirely dissimilar matter (marines getting away with murder). InedibleHulk (talk) 17:38, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 4

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime


(Posted) RD: John Nagenda

[edit]
Article: John Nagenda (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [45]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Significant figure in Uganda across politics, media and sport Beeeggs (talk) 01:23, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Judith Heumann

[edit]
Article: Judith Heumann (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [46]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Needs some sourcing, significant disability rights activist. cart-Talk 10:27, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Phil Batt

[edit]
Article: Phil Batt (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [47]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 18:29, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wait ! What ? Vagabond4life (talk) 19:00, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(NEEDS ATTENTION/Ready) RD: Roel Degamo

[edit]
Article: Roel Degamo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Al Jazeera
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Needs work – Rushtheeditor (talk) 18:10, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 3

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Disasters and accidents

Law and crime


RD: David Lindley

[edit]
Article: David Lindley (musician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Prominent session and touring musician, associated with The Section (band) and Jackson Browne. Article is 90% of the way there; though discography needs sourcing to be all the way ready for the main page. Jayron32 16:56, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Barbara Everitt Bryant

[edit]
Article: Barbara Everitt Bryant (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [48]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 17:17, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[ATTENTION NEEDED] RD: Tom Sizemore

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Template:ITN candidate

This ref can be used for sourcing
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/mar/05/tom-sizemore-obituary Kirill C1 (talk) 18:25, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Lee San Choon

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Jay Weston

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Camille Souter

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Wally Fawkes

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Template:ITN candidate

(Closed) Guilty conviction of Alex Murdaugh

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

Template:Abot

March 2

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2023 March 2 Template:Cob


(Posted) Cyclone Freddy

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Template:ITN candidate

  • Support This cyclone isn't done yet, but the impacts seem to be significant for a cyclone and expected to get more impactful at some point. MarioJump83 (talk) 00:46, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- Freddy hasn't dissipated yet, but its long lifespan is notable.

Layah50♪ ( 話して~! ) 03:25, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jerry Richardson

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Mary Bauermeister

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Template:ITN candidate

RD: Wayne Shorter

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Template:ITN candidate

President of Vietnam

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Template:ITN candidate

Weak Oppose I was just about to nominate this! Well, anyway, I do think that this should go on, but I'm still a little iffy on the article quality of Thoung's page. Correct me if this does fit the requirements to go on the main page, but there's really not much meat on the article's bones, I feel. Maybe the article should be split up a little into separate chunks? I'm not sure, but the article isn't the greatest. TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 16:43, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
On the contrary, if this article get on the main page, I think more people will be interested in this subject and edit to make the page better, no? The current article is an almost verbatim translation from the Vietnamese page, which has a weird structure when it comes to Vietnamese political leaders (just listing all the positions without any narrative). Consultant Wiki (talk) 18:16, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's typically not how we do things. The article needs to be at front-page quality to get posted, we don't post it in order to bring it to front-page quality. We didn't post the resignation of his predecessor primarily due to article quality issues. The Kip (talk) 18:40, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Article looks a lot better now, so swapping to Support. TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 16:09, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support We usually post on ITN when a new president is voted into a country, so why not post Võ Văn Thưởng's? Vriend1917 (talk) 17:13, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We usually post whoever is the head of government or who administers the executive. The president of Vietnam does not administer the executive, and he's only the head of state. He has no real power in the country.--RockstoneSend me a message! 03:25, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support Thanks for tagging me, Andrew. Mr. Thuong is not just a new president. He's Vietnam's youngest president since 1945. This is very newsworthy. --Consultant Wiki (talk) 17:55, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That article calls him 53, and ours says 52, which suggests trouble. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:45, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The president of Vietnam is not considered the major political leader of the the country (thats the communist party leader). This is not ITNR for that reason, and as such not an election we cover. --Masem (t) 18:29, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The President is the second highest official aftef the General Secretary and is considered one of the Four Pillars of leadership. Additionally, Thuong is also the Standing Secretary of the Party (de facto 5th most powerful position after the Four Pillars). He's also the country's youngest president ever. This is very newsworthy, no? Consultant Wiki (talk) 18:33, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It can be left up for debate, but we typically don't post leadership changes that wield little power; the General Secretary holds nearly all power in Vietnam, despite the formal structure of the government. The Kip (talk) 18:42, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - While the President of Vietnam is the country's head of state technically speaking, in practice, it is the General Secretary of the Communist Party who administers the country. WP:ITN/R states that Changes in the holder of the office which administer the executive of their respective state/government should be included, and this is not that. It is also not receiving widespread coverage to warrant an exception. Estar8806 (talk) 02:13, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose President of Vietnam is more like President of Pakistan in terms of power as a comparison, which is very far from actually governing presidents like President of Indonesia. As far as my experience goes, this is something that we post on YEARS articles but not the ITN. MarioJump83 (talk) 00:42, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Template:Replyto There seems to be a significant misunderstanding of the power of the Presidency in Vietnamese politics and the state in general. The most powerful position is, indeed, the General Secretary of the Communist Party. However, I've seen In the News update on cabinet appointments in the US and the election of presidents who have only ceremonial powers (many of them in liberal democracies). The office of the Presidency is not ceremonial in Vietnam and has a lot of power. There is a reason why Vietnam has not instituted the China model in which the Party head and the Presidency are the same because the last office comes with duties and responsibilities that limit the power of the sitting party head institutionally. The case is also noteworthy for being the first case in Vietnam's communist history that a sitting head of state, Nguyễn Xuân Phúc, was removed from office due to not working hard enough to curb government corruption while in office.
Everyone who understands Vietnamese politics understands that something that has never occurred before has just happened. The lack of understanding of communist political systems or inherent bias against them should not stop WP sharing a notable story. I've changed the text as well. --TheUzbek (talk) 10:10, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Communist governments always have leaders that have "Elections", which are always rigged. Such as that North Korea has a election every five years, but just because they do have a election, doesn't mean they are ITN-Worthy. Editor 5426387 (talk) 13:44, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Except we have posted rigged elections that had a change in the head of state, as was the case with Turkmenistan. Just because the election is rigged does not mean it is not ITNR; opposers above are saying it is not ITNR for a completely different reason. Curbon7 (talk) 04:06, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Tq. I don't ever recall seeing a cabinet appointment in the US posted to ITN; I'm sure any nomination these days would be shot down very quickly. Similarly presidents with ceremonial powers are not ITN/R and are usually opposed when they are nominated, liberal democracy or not. Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:24, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's true, I haven't seen a cabinet appointment, but we did nominate Petr Pavel when he won the presidency of the Czech Republic, which, is a mostly ceremonial position. I also did some digging, and we also put on Xi Jinping when he became President of China, even after he became General Secretary, though, to be fair that was 10 years ago, so I don't think that holds up, but the relationship between President and Prime Minister, and President and General Secretary is very similar in all three countries, I believe, with the President having less power compared to either the Prime Minister or General Secretary.. TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 18:00, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your perspective. I am not sure that the election of this president is a clear indication of a dramatic change of policy. It's much more a "management" decision of the Central Committee of the Communist Party to replace one of theirs with someone more aligned with the current party's priorities. As you highlighted, while the president of Vietnam is considered to be the second-highest position, the major decisions are made collectively by the Central Committee led by the General Secretary of the Communist Party. A change of the General Secretary will be much more consequential and newsworthy for ITN. Even though people with ceremonial positions from other countries have been In the News before, I think that only well-known people should be considered. For example, I do not think that the election of the president of Germany or Ireland should be posted in this section. Maxxies (talk) 03:46, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Replyto In communist systems its easy to get elected but difficult to become a candidate. In a liberal system its easy to stand for election as a candidate but difficult to be elected. The same goes for all election down to the village committee. These systems use way more time on choosing candidates than electing them. In other words, the Central Committee plenary session that nominated Vo Van Thuong is way more interesting than the Emergency Session of the National Assembly that elected him.
As for North Korea, elections are usually way less interesting since a) we know barely anything of whats happening, b) the powers of the Supreme People's Assembly are way weaker than the National Assembly (forty percent of National Assembly deputies in Vietnam voted against the government proposal to stop illegalising homosexuality, that could never have happened in the Eastern Bloc, China or North Korea for that matter) and c) since it has more power, more leeway, has an institutional function to be transmission belt of sorts and is, in the main, responsible for that legislation and laws are adopted correctly the election to play a vital role. These election are of course not as important as those found in liberal democracies, but that's not the point either, and no one is saying that they are as important either.
Template:Reply I feel, and you can disagree with me, that there is an inherent bias on WP against non-Western topics and, of course, non-liberal systems. This hurts our coverage of Vietnam.--TheUzbek (talk) 09:17, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March 1

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2023 March 1 Template:Cob


(Posted) RD: Neela Ramgopal

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Template:ITN candidate

RD: Just Fontaine

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) 2023 Nigeria presidential election

[edit]

Template:ITN candidate

  • Wait The race hasn't formally been called, and considering both major opposition parties are calling for a rerun due to irregularities, it may be a little while before this is sorted out. The Kip (talk) 05:07, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @The Kip How exactly do you figure it hasn't been called yet? Almost every major news organization has already called the election. This article [49] from CNN even mentions that the source of the reports is the chair of Nigeria's electoral commission. Estar8806 (talk) 05:10, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    My bad, the BBC News piece I'd read used the phrasing "taken a commanding lead" vs elected. I'll strike that part, but I still advocate waiting. The Kip (talk) 05:12, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @The Kip It was a very recent development, so I'm unsurprised that articles from earlier might say commanding lead rather than declared victory. Estar8806 (talk) 05:13, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    A rerun is very unlikely to happen, due to APC control of all branches of the gvmt. Also, as sad as it is to say, I would be shocked if an election in Nigeria didn't have irregularities at this point, considering the country is coming apart at the seams. Curbon7 (talk) 05:18, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - no one gets this technical when news outlets calls an election for a candidate in the U.S, despite the fact that the electoral votes aren't certified by the states and Congress until December and January respectively. The ageless man is now P-elect of Nigeria. Crusader1096 (message) 06:28, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be less concerned if it was solely the PDP or LP calling for a revote, but that the opposition as a whole is calling for one is what's giving me pause. The Kip (talk) 06:43, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Results are final and article is comprehensive. -- Jiaminglimjm (talk) 07:11, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Needs work It's one of those election pages that is started well in advance of the event and so is full of opinion polls, speculation and future tense. As it's quite large already, it needs going over carefully to bring it up to date with the actual outcome. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:40, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait per Kip - This is an election that has the potential of causing high tensions in Nigeria. Voter turnout at a mere 25%, major irregularities, the whole opposition not recognizing those results, and, as Curbon7 said, the APC basically executing an illiberal, borderline authoritarian government; all this could lead to massive protests. We definitely need to keep an eye on this, but I only give my support for altBlurb once we know more about the aftermath. CDE34RFV (talk) 12:40, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Article does not, anywhere in the prose, say anything about a winner. There's a little bit in the infobox, but that's it. If the article has not been properly updated with a full prose summary of the results of the election, we can't post it. When and if that is done, I will re-assess the quality, but there is no way this article is ready for the main page right now. --Jayron32 14:16, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Now it is: 2023_Nigerian_presidential_election#Aftermath Crusader1096 (message) 17:32, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Also now mentioned in the lead. Crusader1096 (message) 21:49, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Support now that article has been properly updated. I ONLY support the original blurb. I oppose the altblurb and any blurbs that editorialize. Reporting the results of the election is sufficient; problems with the election are in the article and people who click it will learn more there. --Jayron32 12:53, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Seventeen consecutive citations is the worst case of citation overkill I've ever seen. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:27, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Walt per Kip. This could be a big story unto itself, and I think striking when the iron is hot would be a better idea rather than rushing out a premature blurb and then continuously updating it.--WaltClipper -(talk) 15:04, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post now if there are no quality concerns. Voter turnout being low and/or opposition parties disputing the result are not going to lead to a recount or a repeat of the election. TheBestagon 15:19, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WAIT PrecariousWorlds (talk) 22:04, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I believe that the article will have to be split up or trimmed. It's currently the 16th longest page on English Wikipedia. --Vacant0 (talk) 22:06, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Good point. I didn't scroll all the way down but when you do, you find it's huge and has 822 citations. This indicates that there may have been lots of partisan input during the campaign and so that would need checking too. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:05, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Oppose for now. There are also two more cn tags (the results table is not even backed up by a reference, which is of course important) and many excessive citations. This should be fixed before being posted to main page. Vacant0 (talk) 12:57, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    This still stands. Also, the aftermath section only contains one sentence. Vacant0 (talk) 23:27, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    References have been added to the result figures. The Aftermath section is fully sourced. Preferably it should be longer, but short sourced content is more important than unsourced wall of text. – Ammarpad (talk) 09:40, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Ok so this seems to have been fixed though there are still 13 cn tags and many excessive citations. This should be addressed before being posted to main page. Vacant0 (talk) 13:31, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle Let's not fool ourselves. Like I said above, with total APC control of the government, it is extremely unlikely this result will change. We're no strangers to posting less-than-legitimate elections (Turkmenistan most notably), so I don't see why we should renege this one. However, the issues Andrew and Jayron point out above need to be fixed before this is mainpage-ready. Curbon7 (talk) 05:23, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - There are some issues with excessive citations and a very lackluster aftermath section. But, I think it's good enough for the main page.
Onegreatjoke (talk) 00:52, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I added the necessary details to the “Aftermath” section, so I now support the alt blurb. The dispute is noted in reliable sources, so omitting that feels like it’d be making an editorial decision & omitting notable info. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 07:32, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We do not editorialise in an ITN blurb. Most elections in Africa are disputed at one level or another, but our longstanding convention is not to get into such detail in a one line blurb.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:12, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Failing to note disputes seems like editorializing to me. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 17:52, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
They have been added. And I'd say the article is very much ready for ITN. -Jiaminglimjm (talk) 07:09, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality for now - I've identified quite a number of uncited statements in the article which need fixing up first. After that, good to go. I don't know why "wait" has become such a popular ITN vote lately, it's totally unclear what we're waiting for and we don't have a WP:CRYSTAL ball. This is in the news and ITN/R, so of course it must be posted once the quality is sorted.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:08, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]